The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Can Parents Afford to Put Their Kids in Sports?

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

Research shows 67 per cent of Canadian kids between three and 17 take part in some sort of sport or activity, but 58 per cent of parents are facing financial challenges trying to keep their children in the game. While youth involvement in sports leads to many benefits, how can parents keep their children enrolled without breaking the bank? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Research shows that most Canadian kids, from toddlers to teenagers, take part in some kind of sport or activity, but many parents face financial challenges trying to keep their children in the game. How can parents afford to pay for their kids' love of sports without breaking the bank? Let's find out. Joining us in studio tonight we welcome Dan Cardoza, Senior General Manager in Health and Fitness at the YMCA of Greater Toronto. Marco Di Buono, president of Canadian Tire Jumpstart Charities. And Bruce Kidd, professor emeritus sport public policy at the University of Toronto, and frankly,

if I may add, one of the greatest athletes this country has ever seen. So great to have you back in that chair here. And gentlemen on the end, nice to have you here as well. Let's put up this background here, shall we? This is, do youth sports break the bank? We're calling this. A recent report by Solutions Research Group consultants shared that 58% of parents interviewed, 58%

describe facing financial issues trying to keep their children enrolled in sports. The Jump Start State of Play Youth Report has similar findings. 47% of children surveyed that do not play sports often say their reasoning for lack of participation is because sports are just too expensive. Okay Marco start us off. What do you want to tell us more about these findings? Well a couple of things. So

great that we know that one and two or approximately one in two can no longer afford the cost of sport for their kids. It's the rate at which that has increased since pre-pandemic levels that is really startling. Based on our data, we knew that about one in every three families leading into 2020 couldn't afford the cost of sport. So to see that escalation in the lack of affordability

is really what should be concerning. The other thing that we need to keep in mind though is that this is true. This cost as a barrier to participation is true regardless of where you are in the world. You can survey kids in the US, you can survey families in Europe, you can survey families in Australia. No matter where you survey, the number one barrier to participation is always going to be cost. Yet, many jurisdictions have found a way to overcome that. We don't have a systemic solution here in Canada. And given the urgency with which now families are saying they can't afford the cost of sport and play

when their kids need it most, we should start to be thinking about solutions that are systemic. And we shall get to some ideas as we continue our conversation. Are these, I mean, you're surrounded by people who are athletic and young people all the time, right? At YMCA's everywhere. So are these numbers representative of what you see in your experience?

Yeah, I think to support what Marco just said, we see it every day. We're at the YMCA. We have about 90,000, roughly, individuals and families across the GTA, from Oshawa to Mississauga. And one in five utilize the YMCA's financial assistance program. And the majority of those happen to be the kids and the youth.

And definitely the findings from the Canadian entire Jump Start report are seen every day in our centers. And one of the things that we've noticed is that since the pandemic, there has been, I wouldn't say a less of a desire, but that was a major disruption to kids' rhythm of participation. And it's a definite challenge that we're facing to try to recruit kids back and recruit youth back into our programs. And that's our focus at the YMCA, which is to try to continue to support them through our own financial assistance program, but also partnering with organizations like Canadian Tire Jumpstart.

They've been a great support to us as well. Well, here's where I get a little needlessly provocative with the former All-Star over here on my left. I can imagine there are people watching this or listening to this who will think to themselves, Bruce Kidd was one of the great runners of this country's history. What's the barrier to participation? If you just want to get out and run around in the streets.

What's the barrier to participation? If you just grab a soccer ball and go to the park, or grab a football and go to the park. How can we have a financial barrier to participation in sports, which you would think would be fairly easy to do? Well, one explanation or contributing factor is the immiseration of public institutions,

like physical education and school sports, in our public schools. I mean, I went to the Olympics on the basis of public programs. My friend and colleague, Bill Crothers, after whom a school is named in York Region, went to the Olympics on the basis of public programs. But public programs can longer do that.

The demands for sport development are much greater and schools and municipalities haven't been able to keep up. If you read the surveys of people for education you'll see that over the period that my colleagues have talked about user fees for participation in sport have gone up and up and up and really only parents in the rich school in the rich neighborhoods can now afford the cost of a team. But that's what he supposes that the school is the sort of focal point of all athletic activity and anybody...

But it's the entry. And it should be the basis and I would say all of our public commitments as a country talk about the school and the municipality as the basic entry for sport. The other measure that I want to introduce Steve is the class background of our top athletes. Whether it's in pro sports like the NHL or whether it's in the Olympic team, the class background is much higher than it was in my era. When I grew up, the best hockey players were from small rural towns. Timmings, Brooklyn Lake, yes, for sure. Well, my colleague Rick Bruno at Simon Fraser has written a now famous paper entitled,

Gordie Howe would never make it to the NHL today. Why? Because his parents could not afford the cost of the registration fees, the skates, the travel time, the summer skill camps and so on. So if you look at, if you compared the class background of the NHL in 1960 and today you'd see a vast difference. Is that what you see as well? We see it clearly every single day and part of that has to do with the fact that we've we've pseudo commercialized youth sports throughout North America predominantly. And rather than adhere to the principles of positive youth development,

where kids shouldn't really be competing before the age of 13, they shouldn't be specializing in one sport, they should be sampling as many as possible, what we have is organizations capitalizing on the interest and the demand predominantly coming from parents and forcing kids to specialize in very specific sports throughout 12 months of the year. It leads to overuse injuries, it leads to disengagement with the kids, but most

importantly it leads to cost escalation for the parents because now they're forced with registration fees for one sport at multiple points throughout the year and organizations that are preying on victims, so to speak, by charging as much as they can to capitalize on the parent's interest. Let me pick up with Dan on that one. Back in the day, back when I went to school,

if there was an athletic activity that required you to pay a little extra, and we knew there were kids who couldn't necessarily, whose parents couldn't necessarily afford to pay that little something extra, somehow it all got worked out, right? Somehow they figured out how to do it without embarrassing anybody. Does that not happen anymore? I think it can happen. What Marko's talking about, what I would call the professionalization of youth sport where early specialization and there is research that supports what

Marco's just said around the idea that early specialization is not necessarily the thing that's going to help kids last in sport. So like you back in my day if something needed to be worked out costs were so low but now with professionalization of youth and child sport, and we're talking about thousands and thousands of dollars, some of the research suggests that to play hockey or to play, I have two girls, 16 and 19 years old, they played soccer throughout their life and many other things. But the costs are not what you or I might be used to.

And like Bruce mentioned, my entry point to sports growing up was really around school sports and community-based programs. It was not like what my kids are experiencing today. But help me understand that, because soccer, what do you need? You need a pair of running shoes. What else do you need? Correct. So I'll give you an example. My daughter's currently 19 years old. She plays college soccer. Her first entry point into soccer was a 12-week summer community program that cost, I want to say, $200. Reasonable, 10 years later, it was easily over $5,000 to $6,000, once you consider travel

and once you consider all the bells and whistles that come with that. So it's really important that community organizations, whether it be a YMCA or your local community center, as well as schools, like Bruce mentioned, provide a bit of a sampling approach, where you can get a low barrier to entry, a foot in the door, a taste test, if you will, before making a commitment. Marko.

Yeah, I think it's important, too, to point out that community sport organizations aren't doing this nefariously, right? It goes without saying that the pandemic created a massive amount of disruption for community sport. It was the first thing to close along with schools, one of the last things to reopen when pandemic restrictions came off.

So immediately what you had is a number of organizations that had no pipeline to keep the doors and lights on during the pandemic because they didn't qualify for the subsidies that the governments were making available. A lot of support organizations are not charities, they're not for profit organizations, so they fell in this in between category of organizations that simply did not qualify for all of the reliefs. You come out of the pandemic,

you go into the inflationary pressures that we're all still facing right now. For community sport organizations, the ones that charge fees, they had increased rental fees, they had increased insurance costs, they had increased equipment costs. They passed those fees on to parents because they had no choice. For organizations that charge nothing or low fee entry for kids from low-income backgrounds, they had no choice but to reduce the amount of programming that they had on offer. So again, you had a supply-demand issue which increased the cost of participation for everyone. And you're seeing that perpetuated now as the inflationary pressures go on and it's creating a massive challenge for parents because they can't bear the cost that these

organizations have to pass on to them. Here's why this is important and I've got Bruce Kidd here to tell us about the significance for youth development when it comes to participation in sports. What's the connection? Well, it's huge for growth and development, confidence, skill development, resilience, health and well-being, relations with others, a sense of travel and the geography of our region. There's all kinds of learnings that occur.

And so much so that those opportunities are regarded by all the international organizations signed by Canada as basic human rights, basic rights of citizenship. So if you want young people to meet their potential, they should be in sports. That is correct. That is correct. They don't have to specialize. I agree with Marco entirely, but they have to have the opportunity. I mean, we should be enabling every school child in Toronto to learn to swim before the end of grade three. How about in all of Ontario? Well, all of Ontario, the way it used to be.

The way it used to be. So those and anyway, it could go on and on. I mean, we're a water country, a water province, and people should enjoy the pleasures of water. And yet, that's just one deficit. We're losing it. That's right. We're losing it. And the great thing is we can now quantify the impact

that keeping kids involved in sport has on society at large. So we've published a little bit of research. Others have done the same. We can show that for every dollar you invest in community sport for youth, you get $13 in savings from reduced health care utilization, reduced youth offending, and improved employability because they're

learning skills that transfer into a professional environment. $13 saved for every dollar you invest in sport. I defy any government policymaker to find something that's that cost effective within a 12-month window with such an important intervention that's going to follow these things for the time. If the math on this is so obvious though, why are governments at all levels cutting back over and over and over? It's a great question, but we're actually now starting to see smart targeted investments

back into community sport. The federal government started two years ago with their community sport for all initiative. It was $14 million over two years. Not a ton of money, but 14 million times 13 leads to a big impact. They have another round of investment coming in the new year. We've seen Ontario with a preliminary round targeted to community sport. Recently they had an infrastructure fund for community sport organizations. Again, not a lot of money, but enough to lead to significant impact.

Alberta has done the same. So we're starting to see governments now appreciate in a post pandemic reality that investing in something like community sport yields major dividends in a short period of time, not the least of which is improving mental health and well-being, but also that reduced youth offending which has seen a resurgence. Bruce, pick up on that if you would because I think we've all seen it over the last many years that when money gets tight, the first thing that schools or provinces are cut back on, they go to music, they go to phys-ed, they go to libraries.

That is correct. The three things that you need to be a good citizen. So why does that happen? Well, I do not know. I mean, there are so many myths out there. And governments are, I guess it is that people who are sick scream the loudest. And the investments... That's why health gets all the money. That is correct. I guess it is that people who are sick scream the loudest. That's why health gets all the money.

That is correct. But the investment in health is so important. I shouldn't call it health. I should say sickness treatment. The investment in sickness treatment gets all the money. Just 1% of our national health budget would create enormous benefits, enormous benefits. I think one challenge is the pay for play culture. I really do believe we have to restore the faith in our public institutions, particularly our educational institutions. I was encouraged by the national daycare agreement. Why don't we have a national federal provincial territorial

agreement around physical activity in schools and communities? I thought we did. Wasn't it called participation? Well, participation gives us a D plus. A D plus as our score in the 2024 Report Guard for our ability as a society to provide these opportunities. And let's talk about schools for just a moment because there's a great example where you don't

need additional dollars to solve this problem. You've got a taxpayer-funded asset that is literally in every community across the country, but the doors are closed outside of the hours from nine to 3 to community organizations that want to engage with youth in the context of sport or physical activity in those spaces for reasons that can easily be overcome and addressed. But yet, that's a policy lever that no one wants to pull on.

What does the Y bring to this? I think the Y brings, first of all, a philosophy around access and inclusivity. Those are some of our core values. The principles of everyone having the right to play, having something that can be a fit, I think the Y provides an opportunity. Like I said, we have 11 health and fitness centers across the GTA and many more around Ontario and Canada. And I think we provide a great entry point where not just children and youth, but the whole family.

That's one of the principles that I think are important. Agencies and government and schools can all provide a support system. But at the end of the day, I think families participating together and modeling, parents modeling physical activity and sport in whatever form that is. I think the Y provides a venue in addition to schools and other streams of athletic participation.

OK, Dan, let me put an extra lens on it, though. Because I think the surveys also show that what you've said is accurate. If you're a person of color in this society, if you're part of a minority group in this society, it's even tougher. Does the Y have anything going that is specific to that? Yeah, I mean, I think the Y in general

is one of the more inclusive organizations. Again, that's baked right into our ethos, if you will. And we actively recruit not only newcomers, like we have an entire newcomers program with settlement services, which we then try to funnel into our health and fitness. And we see sports like, and the research bears this out, sports like soccer and basketball,

which are particularly attractive to newcomers to Canada. And we see a great amount of participation with not just people from different ethnicities, but genders and all the dimensions of diversity. So we try to definitely actively support that. I think the intersection of poverty with immigrants and people of colour and so on that complicate the problem. I think the Canadian sports community has made a real effort to attack outright discrimination, racism,

anti-indigenous, anti-Islamic prejudice. But the fact that it's a pay-for-play culture and immigrant families are often very poor, that's the barrier. And how do we deal with that barrier? Well, I think, I mean, it's got to be a partnership of organizations, but I would start with the public institutions, which have a demonstrated requirement to be accessible, at least for the first stage.

And I mean, my friends in the Toronto District School Board say that they can't deliver the full legislative curriculum in physical education after school sports are hurting unless there are user fees which is another barrier for some parents. So it's not all that has to be done but addressing that making physical education and school sport really implemented in a qualitative way across the board would really help communities like Scarborough,

where poverty and immigration are really widespread. Can you answer? I have ideas to that. I can, absolutely. And from our vantage point, there is this parallel ecosystem of community support providers that are not part of the formal system not part of the pay-to-play system they count indigenous led organizations black led organizations organizations led by newcomers that are offering free

programming for for underprivileged youth and racialized youth across the country these are great for two reasons one is they're for the community the community. So you know through self-determination they're creating programs that meet the needs of their respective communities. But most importantly they're eliminating that that cost barrier to access and to participation. We see that ecosystem thriving much better than the traditional sports system where the pay-to-play model is in play. So these free programs that we see, and we see thousands of them across the country, some of them at local YMCAs, many of them just led by community leaders who have an

interest in increasing participation for their children and youth, they are over capacity. They are growing. They are thriving. It's the traditional sports system where you have that pay-to-play model, traditional sport clubs, hockey clubs, etc. that are not keeping up with the demand that exists within their communities and it's to their detriment. I got an idea. How about we send Marco to every school in this province with a fistful of Canadian Tire dollars and you hand him out to all the kids? We would be happy to hand out much more money than we currently do with more support from generous Canadians.

To your point, Steve, we do invest about $30 to $35 million a year in community support from coast to coast to coast. We're very proud of that and we will continue to do what we can. But it's going to take a concerted effort by a number of actors in the space. And that is correct. And you know, this is very timely because as a result of the various crises and scandals across Canada in sport in the last four or five years, the federal government has just announced the Royal Commission to study Canadian sport and the future of sport and there are going to be hearings where people are going to be asked to talk about these issues and their suggestions

for moving ahead. Do you know who's chairing that committee? I do but I'm in my senior, it's a Quebec Justice. Bruce you're only 81. That's not a good enough excuse anymore. but I'm in my senior, it's a Quebec justice. Bruce, you're only 81. That's not a good enough excuse anymore. A very fine woman who, the minute this is over, I will remember.

I guess my point is, do you have confidence in that process and in the person leading this effort? Yes, I do. Yes, I do. And I haven't, you know, yes, I do. Good to know. What can the why bring to this dance that so far it has not? Because it sounds like we just need all hands on deck

from everyone. Yeah, I think from a philosophical standpoint, to pick up on something Marco said a moment ago, the why philosophically will bring an emphasis and a focus on what the kids and the youth are telling us. They want out of sport. Yes, a few will make the kids and the youth are telling us. They want out of sport. Yes, a few will make it to the highest levels of high performance and they might be an Olympian

like my friend Bruce here or be on a national team or play for a university or college one day. However, what we're finding is that kids really want to have fun. They want to make friends or be with their friends and they ultimately want to be well. That might not be how they articulate it, but they want to feel good. And I think that the Y provides a place and a model where that is the focus.

It's less about wins and losses and winning trophies or championships. There's a place for that, don't get me wrong. But to have a more inclusive approach where fun, friendship and ultimately well-being, not just physical well-being mind you Steve, but mental well-being, mental health is certainly a key hot button issue right now.

And physical activity and participation in sport, Bruce mentioned it earlier, the social benefits, having a sense of belonging, modeling that and trying to be a provider that provides a layer where people can enter and participate with family, with friends, and in your local community. I just want to circle back to something you said earlier that that has really stuck with me here, which is the notion that one of the greatest hockey players ever, Gordie Howe, who came from rural

Saskatchewan and who, you mean, he's Mr. Hockey. They don't call him Mr. Hockey for nothing. That if similar circumstances existed today, Gordie Howe wouldn't have made it because he didn't come from a rich family. Are we living in that kind of province, in that kind of country right now, really? I would say yes, although it's complicated.

And there are people who are struggling to change that. Because I'd like to think talent will out at the end of the day, but maybe not. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The cost of a sport like hockey, the cost even of a sport like soccer, are now so high that there is a, unless you're recognized and supported at a very early age, it's too expensive for most families.

Are we getting out of control here with the kids who want to play team sports and you got to buy a team jacket for 500 bucks and you got to have the latest equipment and the list is endless, right? It can get out of control. The good news is when you ask kids, and you just said this, right? When you ask kids why they want to play, it's not to have the team jacket.

They want to have fun. The number two reason, they want to play with friends. The number three reason, they want to make new friends. The number four reason, they want to learn new skills. So until we start listening to kids and stop superimposing our own expectations around what their journey in sport looks like as adults and community leaders, we're going to miss the mark.

So we don't need those jackets. We don't need the fancy tournaments. We don't need the fancy competitions. We just need to create atmosphere where kids are safe, they're having fun, and they're making friends, and the rest will, and it's cost, you know, we're reducing that barrier, and the rest will work itself out. I have one final prediction to make here before we close off this conversation, and that is,

I suspect if we had a 10,000 meter race right now, this guy still beats all of us. Hands down. Absolutely. That's my suspicion. You're pretty good back in the day, Mr. Kidd. Anyway, here we go. Marco DiBuono from Canadian Tire. Thank you for coming in today.

Dan Cardoza, Senior General Manager, YMCA Greater Toronto, and Bruce Kidd, one of the great Olympians this country has ever produced, Professor Emeritus, University of Toronto. Thanks everybody for coming into TVO tonight. Thank you. Thanks Steve.