The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Homegrown Horror

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

"In a Violent Nature" is a new horror film by director Chris Nash and producer Peter Kuplowsky. Shot in Sault Ste. Marie, its fresh take on the slasher flick - this one told from the point-of-view of the killer - has earned rave reviews from critics and horror fans. It joins a long list of horror movies made in Ontario - from "Black Christmas" to "The Fly" - that have scared audiences for decades. To discuss Canada's significant contribution to horror movies, we welcome: Chris Nash, director of "In a Violent Nature;" Peter Kuplowsky, a producer of "In a Violent Nature," and programmer of TIFF's Midnight Madness;Carolyn Mauricette, programmer at Fantasia International Film Festival and Blood in the Snow Film Festival; and Alexandra West, author of "Gore-geous: Personal Essays on Beauty and Horror," and co-host of the Faculty of Horror Podcast.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

From epic camping trips to scenic local hikes, spending time outdoors is a great way to create lasting memories to share with friends and family. This summer, TVO is celebrating the natural wonders that inspire unforgettable adventures with great documentaries, articles, and learning resources about beloved parks in Ontario and beyond. Visit tvo.me slash Ontario summer stories for all this and more. And be sure to tell us your stories for a chance to win great prizes. Help TVO create a better world through the power of learning. Visit TVO.org and make a tax-deductible donation today. In a Violent Nature is a new horror film by director Chris Nash and producer Peter Koplowski.

Shot in the woods outside of Sault Ste. Marie, its fresh take on the slasher flick, this one told from the point of view of the killer, has earned rave reviews from critics and horror fans. It joins a long list of horror movies made in Ontario, from Black Christmas to The Fly, that have scared the bejesus out of audiences for decades. Joining us now to discuss In a Violent Nature and this country's significant contribution to horror movies are in Austin, Texas, Chris Nash, director of In a Violent Nature, and with us in studio, Peter Kaplowski, a producer of In a Violent Nature and programmer of TIFF's Midnight Madness program, Carolyn Morissette, programmer at Fantasia International Film Festival

and Blood in the Snow Film Festival. And Alexandra West, author of gorgeous personal essays on beauty and horror and co-host of the Faculty of Horror podcast. Welcome all in our studio and Chris for joining us on the line. So there has been a lot of buzz and blood uh surrounding in a violent nature it's received a lot of attention not just here in canada but south of the border i do want to read a few uh little comments that have been have been mentioned uh in the globe and mail film critic barry hertz calls it an ambitious methodical immersive and admirably devious experiment in conjuring atmosphere and

testing gag reflexes i feel like that's fairly accurate. Rolling Stone says, the fact that In a Violent Nature sets up a storytelling style that utilizes highbrow aesthetics while still keeping one foot firmly planted in the genre gutter is what makes this feel like a once-in-generation slasher flick. All right, I think it's only fair that we get our viewers caught up to speed. We do have the trailer, so let's play that first, and then we'll take a little deep dive into the film. What the f- animals don't get too hung up on reason they just keep killing. I feel like we should get my heart beat after that.

Still some fond memories there. All right, Peter, I'm going to start with you. You are one of the producers on the film, and obviously you program Tips to Midnight Madness. Give us a quick summary on this film. What is it all about? Well, I mean, as you described, it is a slasher film from the point of view of the killer. And we've been so appreciative that so many people have remarked, like, oh, what an original concept. But it actually does come from a long tradition of horror films that have sort of taken the subjectivity of the killer.

I think what was distinct with this film is that Chris brought this idea of taking a subgenre of horror, the slasher film, which has, you know, a very specific formula and rules and rituals, and in a sense, shooting almost the behind the scenes versions of that film, where we're spending time not with the would-be victims, but with the killer and shooting it almost like a nature documentary um and and in a sense embracing what comes with that which is a kind of slow cinema aesthetic where yeah our killer is what are they doing between the kills of a normal slasher film they're walking they're getting their steps in that's awesome chris uh congratulations again uh you are a sioux native uh this was a film sort of in your backyard what were you trying to accomplish uh as as to what went into filming this piece um it was really more of an experiment uh we just had these aesthetics that like i found very very appealing uh that had roots in like

predominantly gus van zandt's work and uh just growing up loving horror films uh but also having like a appreciation for cinema as a whole i just thought how do we mix these things together uh how do we like how can we approach um a rather like rote genre from a different angle? And that's essentially all we were trying to do. Going into it, I think Pete and Shannon Hamner and myself were willing to have it fail as long as we kept to the experiment and kept to the regimented ideas that we were trying to achieve uh so the fact that it's getting any success at all uh at this point is like very very overwhelming this now you had mentioned a gus van zandt uh we're talking what

type of films are we talking elephant we're talking about jerry in terms of our inspirations what specifically but from those films were we trying to pull? Uh, those films, they... I just thought they were very, very entrancing. The way, like, specifically he was experimenting with following characters in those movies, where you let the character themselves, like, dictate the pace of the film, and watching them move through environments,

uh, it just had a very calming atmosphere to them. And that's something that I thought, you know, juxtaposed with a slasher film specifically would be really interesting to see. All right, Alex, what makes this movie different from other slashers? Well, as both Peter and Chris have already said, it's the point of view of the killer,

but it's the time we spend with the killer. I mean, another great Canadian film like Black Christmas, you know, popularized the point of view in that opening sequence that you have and throughout the film. But this is, you know, you get to spend time with this killer. You get to know him in a different way. I mean, Johnny is our lead character within this film. And, you know, even it is, it's borderline relaxing. Like, there's an ASMR quality to it. And even, like, the kills were taking more time with it. You're, like, getting to feel all, like,

the squidgy jumpiness. And, you know, there is a sense of, like, in our culture, as we move faster and faster, social media is propelling us further and further forward in a quicker and quicker rate, just having this kind of slow horror, I think is a really interesting antidote to a lot of the fast-paced stuff that we're dealing with right now.

Can I add something to that? Yeah, I think there's actually what we're observing too. I love that you brought up the fact that there's this idea that we're moving fast-paced and there's social media and people almost assume

that the younger generation is going to have no attention span span but what i've actually observed is that we're seeing a wave of genre films especially in canada of this durational horror cinema um where it's actually about bucking the convention and actually about slowing things down and living an image um and when you look at you know young people on their phones, sure, they're scrolling through a lot of stuff, but they're also watching loops for hours on end. They're watching eight hour lore videos. And this is a film that I think actually does massage that part of the brain that is sort of interested in interrogating an image and a genre. For people who haven't watched that

film, can you give us an idea of a scene where you have to kind of sit through and patiently well i mean we there's a number of sequences in the films where we have uh you know a kill sequence and as you mentioned that they're kind of longer in duration the camera doesn't cut as often um and not only that they're often preceded and follow uh and preceded and proceeded by this sort of extended walking sequence where you're studying this character as the approach and as they leave and you're kind of forced to wonder sort of how did this affect that character?

How did it affect Johnny? Did it affect him at all? There's a sense of culpability too because so many slasher fans, the reason they watch these movies is for the elaborate horror sequences. And this movie kind of gives you what you want, but has you sit in the moment. And it doesn't sort of allow you to cut away to other characters and have a catharsis in the sympathy and the grieving that other characters might do in the wake of that horror.

You're just with this entity that, in a sense, is, as you said, is the hero of the film. Because in these slasher movies, Michael Myers was the hero, in a sense. is, as you said, it's the hero of the film, because in these slasher movies, Michael Myers was the hero, in a sense. Jason Voorhees became the hero. Freddy Krueger became the hero, despite these movies technically having kind of more conventional protagonists. In our movie, we just give you what the audience wanted. Carol, I'll get your take on how different is it? At the end of the day, yes, the point of view is different, but at the end of the day, it is a, there's a lot of blood, there's a lot of kills a lot and i really i go back to the the um title of the film in a violent nature it is nature it is this uh you know entity's nature to kill and i mean there is a point of view

there is a reason why he's you know been uh awoken to come out and get back what he his his necklace right but i really think it speaks to the randomness of nature and like as you were saying like a nature documentary it's like watching animals kind of live their lives and and and he's a predator so he is doing what he's, it's his nature to go after people and to kill. So, and it's really, it really speaks to the randomness of our world right now. Like, you don't know what's creeping around that corner. And the violence that we are seeing now,

it's, even though it's like a slasher film, it's a horror film, people have fun, the ending is very, quite chilling to me. And that conversation with the two women in the car, I don't want to spoil it, but there's a conversation with two women in the car and it really pulls the whole film together for me. Cause I had to sit with it for a bit and I'm like, okay,

so those were insane kills. You know, some of the things were kind of absurdly hilarious, but at the end, it just leaves a chill down your spine. So I think it was really brilliantly executed. I did have to sit with it. And then I had to watch something a little uplifting. Chris, I want to come to you. We talked about nature. I want to point out to our audience that on top of being a chilling horror movie this is beautifully shot wonderfully directed i thought for the moments where i wasn't seeing blood i was watching a nature documentary of sue saint marie in northern ontario why was that important to you um well it was important to like capture capture just how beautiful the area is.

It's where I grew up. It's something I'm very, very familiar with. But it does encapsulate that idea of looks are deceiving, especially in nature. It's one of the scariest places to be. If you're ever going hiking and you get off the path and you even just get yourself turned around for like 30 seconds, if you're not used to that, there is such a panic that can set in. But at the same time, you're fearing for your life,

but you're surrounded by such beauty. And that's something that we really, really were aiming for um with me and uh pierce sturicks my director of photography so many times we would almost elect to frame a more visually appealing shot than necessarily one that conveyed all the information necessary um because that was that was like paramount for us to just have it be a very visually arresting film, as much as we could for it being a slasher film about a guy walking through the woods. Very good. Carolyn, I want to come back to you. Why do you think this film is resonating with audiences?

I think because it's a fresh take, And I think that a lot of younger audiences, they don't know, they may not know about like some older films, like for instance, like Peeping Tom or, you know, some of those older films that have the POV of a killer. So I think this is really fresh and new for younger audiences and I think specifically that um you kind of I think um Peter and Chris like you've crossed the line with how you know with the kills and like made them really creative and I think that's kind of like the center point or the centerpiece of the film is like these really creative kills and But in like these natural settings that are specifically Canadian, I don't know if like, you know, like the wood splitter. The images we're conjuring for you.

Yes, you know, like, I mean, we're creating more interest now for people to see it. I think that's what kind of blew people's minds because they're so inventive and they're so specifically Canadian, as Chris said, like it's specifically Canadian. And we need a boost. We really need a boost. Like we have the Cronenbergs and I love them. Like they'll always stay in my heart forever. So, and they're creating their art, but I think this is, we have a big cottage culture here, right?

We have a big cottage culture here. We have a big cottage culture here. So next time people go up to Muskoka or wherever they are and they have their cottage, they're going to think twice about taking that hike. So I think that really resonates with people. You mentioned David Cronenberg. I'm coming to you, Alex. He is obviously now one of Canada's most celebrated filmmakers. But when you look at his first film, Shivers, released in 1975, let's just say it wasn't a huge fan.

A lot of people weren't a huge fan of it. Can you tell us about that? What was the little bit of sort of negative reviews? Yeah, so Shivers, which was also known as the Parasite Murders, takes place in an apartment complex, and there are these parasites that get transmitted through sex, so it's kind of seedy, it's kind of scary. It's very much a B-movie in a way that only Cronenberg can do, because there's a lot of

incredible themes and issues that emerge throughout the film. However, it was funded by the then CFDC, which is now Telefilm Canada. So it came from a lot of taxpayer dollars. And a lot of people weren't happy about that, where they felt like they were essentially making a smut film with taxpayer money. So there's a really famous article in the magazine, Saturday Night, and it was written by Robert Fulford. And the title of the article was something like you should know how bad this movie is after all you paid for it. And it was like this incredible moral panic that essentially completely

disrupted how Canada was starting to build up their film industry and then they moved into the tax shelter era where people could you know invest in films get a hundred percent back of their investment against their taxes. And so there was this real panic around it. And Cronenberg just kept calm, carried on, made some of the most indelible cinematic images I've ever seen and has always been a bit of a provocateur, like even down to, if you look at his 1996 film, Crash, which, you know, there was so much speculation it was going to win the Palme d'Or at Cannes that year.

And then Francis Ford Coppola, who was the jury head of that year, apparently hated it and did not want to award it. So the rest of the jury had to give him a special award. And, like, Coppola refused to hand it to him. Like, all of this stuff. And I'm like, yeah, he's Canadian. We have miraculously been spared from the animosity of the Coppola refused to hand it to him. All of this stuff. And I'm like, yeah, he's Canadian. We have miraculously been spared from the animosity.

I think it demonstrates the shift in how horror has been embraced in the mainstream. The stuff that you see on The Walking Dead and on primetime is as gnarly as horror films were in the 70s and 80s and now it's Primetime television and I certainly think that Chris and I and Shannon and the whole team when we were making this film we definitely did want to cross the line in a few places and show stuff and show horror

in ways that I don't think is necessarily that distinct from other stuff that's out there but we're doing it in a different way that we hoped would be disarming and would be simply different and a new a new perspective and and unique um and naturally we can chris can speak to a bit about how those well i actually want to pick up with you peter because you had mentioned sort of newer audiences who may not be familiar but there's a whole audience here who may not know how deep canada's history is with horror can you tell us a little bit about that? I know we mentioned off the top Black Christmas. Yeah, which I mean, in a sense,

Black Christmas, Bob Clark's Black Christmas, and Bob Clark, honorary Canadian, I'd like to say, he kind of invented the genre of the slasher film in which we're interrogating and investigating with this film. But I mean, we spoke about Cronenberg and really the fact that Canadian taxpayers are kind of responsible in many ways for the Canadian wave because we had this whole tax shelter era where there was a lot of incentive for investment in Canadian productions

and the productions that turned out to be the most commercial were horror films. And so we had a whole wave of great Canadian horror from Rituals to Death Weekend. I'm trying to think of some of my other favorites. But it's been consistent all the way across. And it's interesting, too, especially in Ontario, which was also a very repressed province when it came to horror cinema. A lot of horror cinema got cut and censored here,

but I think that only fueled, you know, anytime you repress art anywhere, I feel like it only means you're now going to see a wave of art from that community. Very interesting. Chris, I want to ask you this, and I'll follow up with Caroline on that. Has Canada gotten more supportive of its horror filmmakers, or does the genre still face a stigma?

I would say it doesn't. I think it's pretty, as Pete was saying, it's a very mainstream genre at this point. I think, you know, as far as, like, films in production, it's always going to be a hard road making a movie regardless. But I think, think like public support is definitely is definitely there um for a horror film and the genre in general and even i feel like just with the amount of media that we're exposed to these days there's a larger appetite for

something a little more transgressive a little more off the beaten path. Even just to try it out, even just to sample it and see what people are into. I feel like everyone is a lot more apt to do that these days. Carolyn, I'll get you to pick up on that as well. You know, I program for two film festivals and I watch a lot of horror. And I think there is support within the community. Like I see a lot of filmmakers and producers

supporting each other. So I think that's really important. I think the funders are kind of catching up. They need a bit more work. Like I know with Blood in the Snow, we have a development lab for underrepresented filmmakers. And that, we've been seeing some progress. Like we're seeing some of the projects that are pitched get telefilm funding.

And, you know, it's actually a little bit more accelerated now. We're really surprised and it's really kind of encouraging to see that. So I do think it is getting more support, and definitely with viewers, like audiences. People will watch the worst horror if you're at home. You'll sit there, and you'll, let me just put something on. I do it myself. And you can't say that there's a bad horror film because someone's put their heart and soul in it. And some of them are, okay, sure, they're not going to win an Oscar,

but they're fun. And I think that's the aspect that people are kind of maybe looking for now is something fun. Okay. I actually want to pick up on that. And let's talk about some of the elements that sort of go into some some horror films um alex what themes are prevalent in canadian horror films well it's there's been so much writing about the uh canadian aesthetic the canadian ethos um i believe it was margaret margaret atwood who talked about due to the size of our land and our limited population and the extremity of our weather on both ends we tend to kind of have a bunker mentality. We tend to hunker down.

And so I always feel like when I watch Canadian horror, it's about something emerging, whereas a lot of American horror is about something returning home, like the return of the repressed. That was Robin Wood. And, you know, if you look at Europe, it's a lot of history, a lot of folklore. Australia is maybe the most similar in its kind of adversarial nature with its own outback. But in Canada, it's like there's something within the soil that is kind of out there to get us.

And it's going to reemerge. And, you know, as soon as I saw In a Violent Nature, I was like, yep, here it is. It is emerging from our soil once again to get us. And I think that's why it speaks to our fear of, you know, nature. All right. Actually, Chris, as a local, I want to know, Northern Ontario, where does it stack in sort of setting up a horror movie? I don't think I am ever going to go into a cabin anymore in the middle of the woods, but where do we stack up

in terms of other locations? Obviously, we know Toronto is a popular spot and other places, but... Oh, I think that's all entirely dependent on the tax credits so pretty well shoot in northern Ontario yeah I think I mean for me it was really important to shoot there not just for the nostalgia's sake, but it's just, it is, like, an overwhelming place to be. And it was important for me, like, to even, like, travel out to these remote locations

and to shoot remotely just so everybody feels it, like, right through them. So, you know, no matter who's on set, whether it's the makeup or the DP or the actors, like, just feeling that we were out in the middle of nowhere brought something to the film. And, you know, I don't think you're going to get that specific flavor of isolation in other places. I mean, it's Canada, right?

So every piece of this country has its own flavor of isolation. But yeah, Northern Ontario is a towering isolation, I would suppose. All right. With that, and this is my favorite part, as I was discussing with you guys off camera, not a huge horror fan. I scare easily. But I do want, and I'm hoping our audience can, if they're looking for a scary movie to enjoy this summer, where should they be looking? So Alex, I want to come to you first. Ooh, you know, there are so many amazing ones, but thinking, you know, In a Violent Nature,

the same kind of area as Chris just described it, but I've got to say like Adam McDonald's Pie Wacket is such a, it is such a creepy film. If you love the aesthetic of In a Violent Nature, it definitely has some of that as well. But a very different kind of supernatural flavor to it and a whole mother-daughter relationship, which is so beautifully realized. All right, now, we actually do have the trailer for Pie Wacket, so if we could play it. I charge you with this sign. Whether in the night or night,

I invite you to come. Pywack. Get away! Pywack can take many forms. Where'd you go? Don't trust your lying eyes. I can't believe you want to kill your own mother. Just let me just open the door. All right. So we got a little taste there. Can you give us a

little summary, a little bit of what, um, gosh, it's, it's, you know, as a former teen girl, sometimes you just don't get along with your parents. And sometimes you make a deal with the wrong demon. We've all been there. We've all been there. Who hasn't? It's Canada. But yeah, so it's basically

about this girl who has a very extreme reaction to some decisions her mother has made. And it sets her on this kind of strange occultist path that doesn't go as well as she'd hoped and Adam McDonald's made a few movies he also made the series Slasher which also starred David Cronenberg in one of the series and Backcountry I mean so definitely a film a filmmaker who's also I think like our movie kind of interested in the relationship between the

wilderness and civilization. And what's great about Piwack in particular is it has this whole kind of heavy metal, like punk rock attitude to it. So it also feels really edgy and even more subversive than so many other films that have tried to do something similar. So it also really scared me. I only watched the trailers and I was already like, alright, we gotta take a break. So Carolyn, I know you've got a film here that you're reckoning, Slashback. Yes.

Tell us a little bit about that. We do have the trailers. Actually, let's watch the trailer first and then we'll get a little summary from you. So let's play that. what is it Emergency! I feel like I can get behind this one. This one feels a little more family-friendly, but there is still some horror. Tell us a little bit about this one.

Well, if you like that movie, Attack the Block, you'll love Slashback, because this is our Canadian version. So it's about a group of kids in a remote northern town. Like, they're just adorable kids. They're in their town, and they're being attacked by some sort of alien entity that possesses the townspeople, and they have to come together to fight these monsters. And what I love about this film is that there's these little girls, they're kind of looking for the identity, finding their place in the world, and they all come together to kick ass.

And like, that's basically it. It's funny. It's charming. The kids are adorable. An indigenous filmmaker. An indigenous filmmaker. Yes. Nyla and Nookchook. And I just think it's just a blast. It's a lot of fun. And you get behind the kids. It's exciting, too. And you can watch it with kids. I like that.

They'll love it. Fighting back instead of running away. Yes. I like that. All right, Chris. I'm going to have to pull the hometown card and recommend Rituals, Peter Carter's Rituals. It was actually shot in very close to the same area that we shot In a Violent Nature.

And growing up, it took me a while to watch it. It's very much in like an exploitation film coming off the heels of Deliverance with Hal Holbrook, a group of doctors, going to the woods for a weekend of hunting and camping. And there are some people in the woods for a weekend of hunting and camping and um there's some people in the woods that want revenge for some reason uh and yeah it's it's just another movie that shows off the ontario wilderness um especially the yeah that area that we shot in uh much like pie

rocket too pie rocket was actually shot in the same area. So, yeah, I would say Rituals. And I would shout out to Batchwana Bay, if I'm right on that one. So, there you go. All right, and then Peter. I mean, every day I'll have a different answer. I can't even remember if I've prepared a clip for any of these. But, like, I love Jeff Barnaby's Blood Quantum, Bruce McDonald's Pontypool. And also, what I love about horror is that it's so flexible.

There's funny horror, there's scary horror, there's bad horror in the sense that this movie is maybe incompetently put together. But because, again, because so much of horror comes with you understanding the rules of the genre when you enter into it, when you see something not work and not fit together, it can be incredibly entertaining,

like Andrew Jordan's Things, for instance, one of my favorite B movies that feels like kind of a fever dream when you watch it. Tell us a little bit about that one. About Things? Yeah. Yeah, oh, Things. Things is like a movie that was found

in a bunker buried underground, and it might have been made by aliens, but Andrew Jordan, Barry Gillis, they were trying to make a movie that was going to be like their evil bed. And it's about two friends that are spending a night in a cabin in the woods, as so many of these movies do, and the wife of one of their friends

bursts forth these alien entities that look like these ants that start running around the house, and they just kind of have a bad night. and it bursts forth these alien entities that look like these ants that start running around the house. And they just kind of have a bad night. And we have a great time watching it. But it's just very surreal. At one point, the sound kind of cuts out of the film,

and there's like eight minutes of silence, and I call it cinematic purgatory, where you just kind of don't understand if you're watching a movie now or if you've fallen asleep and have entered some kind of dream state. But every minute of this movie is just hilarious in how just absurd and eccentric it is. I really adore things.

And I think it's maybe one of the worst movies ever made. But at that point, by that metric, I feel like that's something to be proud of, that Canada has created one of the worst films and I think one of the best films ever. All right. So we have a couple minutes left and I have a couple questions. One thing I have to ask is, you know, you all watch a lot of horror movies.

But, Alex, I want to come to you. Do you still get scared watching them? And why do you do that? Why do you do that to yourself? Well, I think horror is a really incredible space for so much of what our society represses. Our world is really scary right now. It's really challenging to have really direct conversations about so many of the issues in our society can be really confronting. And a lot of people don't want to deal with that. We need to, but it's really hard to. And I think horror in

many ways gives us a language in which to talk about these things through metaphors, through monsters, where we're able to start to kind of pick apart our fears and understand them a bit better and understand ourselves better and hopefully our community around us a bit better. So I think that's why it's like each generation, we produce a new set of filmmakers and it's like, I can't wait to see what the next generation is going to do, what our generation is still going to do. It's really incredible. I mean, Cronenberg, he's still making stuff.

He's still an icon. He's still pissing people off. All right. Carolyn, how about you? Like, why do you love these movies? I don't. I just, for some reason, they make me feel safe, if that's a weird thing to say. Because you're watching them at home.

You're not really engaging in the actual action. You're watching people get slashed or that monster appears. And it really is a projection of what you're afraid of. I do love a good horror mockumentary like The Conspiracy. You've got it. That one freaks me out every time

because it's so well done. You're like, is this real? Or there's another one called Fake Blood. It's another Canadian mockumentary. And they kind of walk that line between reality and horror. And you realize that it's not so far off from what you're living um so you know there's those sort of things that freak me out but i do feel comforted by horror i'm i don't know it's weird all right we've got about a minute left chris or i'm gonna go

peter and then we're gonna end off on chris uh i mean i just think horror is just such a terrific canvas as you were saying to explore ideas it's a It's also a genre that I find doesn't have to be as didactic. You watch a movie like Get Out. If that film was a drama, I don't think it would have had the impact it had. But because it was placed in a genre that is entertaining, that the audience also understands how this works but can be be still surprised i think that you know is part of it a lot a lot of my relationship with horror is i still get scared from i'm always chasing scares because certainly i get used to certain genres and certain types of routines and i'm just looking for the interesting choices the things that are going to disarm me

or you know disrupt my expectations and i like losing that control just for a second right and then you know you know as you said recognize you're still on the couch. I'm still fine. I'm still safe. I survived. Very nice. Chris, I actually have a rather different question for you. Of course, the love is there for this movie. That's why you would do something so crazy

like the film you did. But you're having such a nice success with this movie and receiving a lot of praise. What do you want to do next? Live comfortably. I'll say that. Yeah. Yeah, still working on that one.

But probably just still playing within the genre. Just anything. genre, just anything. You know, I always just have a, I lean towards more transgressive cinema and transgressive storytelling. So not really sure exactly where that's going to take me, but I just always like exploring those kinds of ideas. So whatever happens next, it's going to be there.

Very nice. Hopefully somewhere in the woods in a cabin, the beautiful scenic backdrop. All right. We are going to leave it there chris peter alexander thank you so much for joining us on the program lovely discussion hopefully our viewers and listeners haven't been too spooked for a discussion so thank you so much thank you thank you the agenda with steve pakin is made possible through generous philanthropic contributions Thank you.