The Always Sunny Podcast - The Gang Cracks the Liberty Bell

Episode Date: November 14, 2022

Learn that you're wrong.

Like, it's weird to be on a show. Why would you guys start? We're not. We haven't done it. We haven't done it. We haven't done it. I mean, it hasn't, it hasn't. In that sense, it has.

I mean, like, is there a ton of good content? Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, a lot of good stuff came out before you got here. Well, guys, here we are. I got a hot take. I'm coming in hot. Oh, come on in.

I'm coming in hot because I watched the episode this morning, and I do remember a tremendous amount of audience pushback on this particular episode, if I recall correctly. And my hot take is that they're all wrong. Oh, I'm with you. Not only do I think it's a great episode, I think it's one of the best episodes we've ever done. No, that's a hot take. That's a hot take that I've got, but I think it's up there with a very good episode.

I think it's within the top five to 10 best episodes we've done. Oh, wow. I'll put it in the top 20. It's one of my favorite cold opens ever. I think the cold open is. The cold open is amazing. The cold open is something you stretch out that moment where you guys are doing something absurd for so long.

We were talking about the picture, George Washington. Do you remember who we were saying it looked like that the network made us change and we switched it to Meryl Streep? No. Oh, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me take a look at that. Wait, let's try and figure this out.

And they made us change it? Barbara Bush. Oh, no, no. It had to be somebody on FX, right? That's right. Yeah. Glenn Close? Glenn Close.

Because of damages. Yeah. Damages is huge. Because it does look a little like Glenn Close. It doesn't look anything like Meryl Streep. Not really, no. And it's not as funny. And that's my only, there's only two things that I feel like keep it from being a perfect

episode. That joke. I'm like, God damn it, it should have been Glenn Close. It's so much better than Glenn Close. And my performance. And well, mine and Danny's storyline, but we'll get into that because there was a thing with that. Yeah.

I do remember that too. And I want to get your feelings on that now because in retrospect, because I remember being a thing that we were talking about on the day trying to dial that in. Yeah, we'll work to that. But like in terms of the episode in general, it's such a great premise. These guys, they have this bar and they want to get more customers. So they say, hey, if we were just on a historical walking tour, people would walk by our bar. They come in, they have some drinks.

That's right. Then they go to the Historical Society and tell us ridiculous tale. And then, well, I just said, I love that basically what we're saying to her is we had a direct hand in, our bar had a direct hand in why the Liberty Bell was cracked. Right. And then the whole time. Tell me about it. I love that.

I love the way. Of course she would be. She's terrific. She's so good. She's terrific. Yeah. She's a woman that works at the Historical Society and we're saying, we're coming in with a fresh story on how this happened and she was so excited to hear it.

But yeah, we don't tell a story about how the Liberty Bell got cracked until the very, very end. And it's just these two dudes. And I think they were, weren't they like stunt guys or whatever? And they were carrying that thing. And the one guy's like, ah, shit, bro, we just broke the Liberty Bell. To me, it's firing on all cylinders where it's, I don't know if I feel I strongly about it as you guys do.

I liked it. I enjoyed it very much. Just from a purely entertaining standpoint, the fact that we got the production quality of the show to kind of pull that off. Yeah. Another Shackman episode. It was very expensive. It was very expensive.

Yeah. This was a big swing for us. No, the patty set looked outstanding. Yeah. But the two of you guys and David and, and Katelyn are firing on all cylinders. I'll say that Danny and my storyline isn't as strong as you guys' storyline. That is true. There's not like much happening there.

So I think maybe that just kicks it out of maybe one of the best we've done, but goddamn it. I, I laughed beginning that. Yeah. I think that whole gun sequence is so funny though when, when, when she, when she's going to shoot the pumpkin off of his head and then you guys are checking if the guns work by pointing them at each other, calling the trowels and you pose to take one. It's like, oh, so funny.

Charlie asking how she could have possibly talked you into this, Frank. And he's like, maybe it was her necromancy and she was like, yeah. Yes. Your necromancy woman. To shoot the guns. And I said, yes, that's it. That's why we're here. He came in and said shoot the pumpkin off my head.

I liked that they're slightly simpler people. They're even simpler than our characters, which are already simple. I mean, your, your reaction to Cricket saying, but you don't really think she's a witch. Like it's totally, or it's like, yeah, yeah, no, no, pretty sure she is. Yeah. Pretty sure. Pretty sure. Well, that sequence too where, where he says, I'm not very good with women and you guys

are like, wait, are you mean? Good at women? Good with women. Explain this. Good at them? They don't have any rights. Just catch them. Just grab one and take it.

We're like. So funny. You're kind of going between like a bullshit story that these guys are telling, but also like who they would have been in this time, which is fun to see. Yes. And the fact that they're like, well, the first thing we're going to do is try to get on the British side is so fit into the characters and we're just great. Also fitting to D that she wants independence unless the dependence comes with land and

gowns and jewelry, in which case she's totally fine being married to some guy. But yeah. Although she's got to work up to kissing. Do you guys have any recollection though of like pitching this episode or like how we got to wanting to do, I mean, for where we were at with the show, it is a big swing, which is probably why it was jarring audiences, which is like, they have to, you know, suspend their disbelief beyond what they're already doing. But like, I don't even remember how we get like, now it would seem normal to be like,

yeah, we might do one like that. But at the time. I can tell you where I do understand the audience is higher. I would say that as the maker of stuff, I like to stretch and do different things that makes it fun. But as a fan or as a viewer of a show, I actually sometimes do get frustrated when they get outside of the norm of what the episode, like what the episodes are. John Cakes.

Yeah. Yes. Exactly. That's a great example. Yeah. And in the Sopranos or the episode where Tony moves to, he is a dream sequence and moves to Los Angeles and becomes like an average guy. Sure.

You're watching it and you're like, I get why this is exciting to them because it's different and they get to stretch and tell a story in a different way. The fly episode very famously. You want to see the faun's in the leather coat, punch the jukebox and make it work. You don't want to see him jump over the sharks. But I will say though, about this episode, we're not doing that. They're just telling a tale, right? So that's why for me it's still.

That's why it works. Yeah. Because it's our characters making something up and visualizing ourselves as a character. They're just telling a story and then the audience gets to go along with the story. I'm just playing devil's advocate. They're dead wrong. If the audience is wrong. No, I think.

To be angry and creeps in the listeners who disagree, you can fuck off. By the way. It's our show, right? No, learn. Learn something today. Learn that you're wrong. No, but like. But.

That's why people tune into the podcast. Yeah. Let's give credit to the many millions of people who I'm sure love that episode too. I don't want to say that. My dad loves that. Loves the episodes. It's one of his favorite episodes. I got to ask him why that is.

I don't know. I think he, I think he actually appreciated that we took like a weird historical angle on things. I don't know. Yeah. I don't think that it's hated. I think it's just polarizing. I think people either really like it or they don't like it and they skip that one and

like the rotation. Let me throw this in there that if you're one of those creeps or listeners that. Perhaps that episode when you do a rewatch, give it another shot, you know, your opinion on it may have changed. Or maybe not. I don't know. You may still come out the other side hating it, but give it another shot. Well, I don't remember the breaking of it at all.

I don't remember how it got pitched in the room or. I don't even remember feeling like, oh, this is a big swing or. I think it started with the concept of trying to get patties on a historical tour to drum up business. I think that's how it started and then I think it went to like, well, what if we actually tell the story? Like what if we actually do an episode that takes place in the time that our characters are referring to?

I do believe that that is how it evolved. And now I think we got very excited because we were like, oh, that would be really fun and totally different. So I remember, so here's my thing with my performance in that, which I'm going, there's different takes of me playing it kind of much more like Charlie Kelly and then me playing it like this kind of like, you know, monstrously dumb, like frighteningly dumb guy, right? Which was my initial instinct, which was to be like, okay, what would the 1776 version of this guy who's already an idiot be like, how, how kind of base could I make the guy?

If you're illiterate in 2005, what would you be in 1776? You guys were just doing your characters in those costumes, right? Well, sort of, we were, we were hopping in and out with like, we would do the eye and stuff, but like you're not, we would be like, sort of like heightened versions of, you know, and then, and then something would happen and I'd be like, oh yeah, good one. Nice one. Yeah, right, right, right. Good one, witch.

That's another great moment. And I had done a full day, I think, or like full couple of scenes of that and then you guys kind of pulled me aside and be like, hey, I feel like I'm not seeing any Charlie Kelly, I remember you saying, I think you were being nice and trying to like soften the blow, but being like, you're doing such a good job, I don't see any of your character in there. Yeah, it's like you're playing a different character. You're playing a different character.

Actually, to Shackman's credit, he was the one that was picking up on it first. He's such a great director and he like, came to us and was like, I think I'm, look, I never, he never wants to get in the way of any of our performances, right? So I remember him saying, I don't want to step on Charlie's performance because it's great, but I'm not seeing a ton of Charlie Kelly in there, what do you guys think? And I remember us discussing it and then bringing it to you. Yeah. And he and you guys were dead right.

I think it would have, that my side of the story would work better if I just played it straight like Charlie Kelly. I could be wrong, but like, I think I didn't need anything beyond just me and Frank being me and Frank in different costumes with furs and pumpkins. Yeah, I think, I think I recall it feeling, it feeling a little like I had on a hat, right? Like I was like, it's already really funny what you guys are doing and saying and it's all, you know, and then, yeah, I think that's how, I think that's how I felt about it. Cause I remember also agreeing that I actually liked what you were doing.

I just felt like it would be funnier if you didn't do it. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I know. And like, it was one of those things too where it's, it's hard to know, right? We don't know the, and there are no rules, right? Like Cricket is a completely different guy, but it works cause he's this British guy and

it's just like fantasy of cricket. Also the way you guys treat him is similar. Yeah. The way they treat him is similar, right? To like, do not being interested in him and calling him crazy ugly. It might be me too, being like, well, there's not, the storyline is like, we're trying to buy a pumpkin and then there's a funny thing with the guns, but like, there's not much to that.

Storylines trying to make more out of it, but. You can really see it in the very first, the first time you speak. So it's, it was probably an early take in that first scene. Now, my good gentlemen, what says you of my fine furs here, Mary, I'd be able to guide you towards some interest in some purchase. I can't understand what you're saying. You want to buy a far. Yeah.

You can see you going for it there, but I find myself watching it and remembering that entire sequence happening and then going, oh man, I wouldn't mind seeing a whole episode of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's the same. Yeah.

There was a cut of like full that, you know, versus like. What we wound up doing was that I would do one take as that and then several takes with that dialed way down. So that we have the option. But then what wound up happening, I think, because we have one day of shooting where it was fully that is that it's kind of in and out of that. Like sometimes it's that, sometimes it's not that, which. I think it doesn't.

Totally not. It doesn't, it doesn't feel completely disjointed. I see it because I know what we did. No, and it's fine because we're all doing some characters at times and then dropping it. But rewatching it, being like, yeah, no, I feel like you guys were totally right. Like it should have been like, just do it as Charlie Kelly. Well, so do you guys remember so when I do remember when we were when we were writing

the episode or breaking the episode, talking about what we wanted those guns to look like. And we very specifically, you and I had the same image. I know all of us said when you say Blunderbuss, everybody knows what Blunderbuss is based on. Yes, it's an LR. It's a cartoon guy. Based on Elmer Fudd. It's an Elmer Fudd.

Yeah. That's what we wanted. The barrel at the end. Yeah. So that's what we had in our minds. We write that in and we call it a Blunderbuss. Yeah, we've written that. And we got on the day we get these guns, they look like actual rifles and we're like, well,

this isn't. This ain't fine. Ain't fine. This is what they actually used in 1776. Yeah. They didn't fucking care. We don't give a shit. Bring us what we wrote in the script and they're like, dickheads, this is what you wrote in

the script. And we're like, well, don't bring us what we were thinking. There is a lot of that. There is a lot of that. Our poor. No, what we're thinking. Our poor. No, what we're thinking.

Don't bring us what we asked for. Right. Because didn't we determine that there were no actual guns made with quite the dimensions that Elmer Fudd. So we had to. Yeah, we had to manufacture it. And we wanted those Fudd dimensions, but we could have built one. We could have aluminium.

Right. There was also another incident with this episode where we were saying, we want Cricket's head to explode in a very specific way. Well, do you remember what the reference was? I do. But at the time, we were like, we know exactly what we want it to be. We want it to explode in, well, billion pieces. And they're like, well, that just can't be done.

And we were like, well, no, we've seen it in the movie. David Cronenberg did it in the 1970s. Yes. So we saw it in scanners and we're like, make it look like this. We want a scanner's explosion. Yeah, I mean, so no, before the audience, anybody who's, you know, David Cronenberg fan, certainly, but if you have seen the movie, Scanners, there is a very famous scene where I believe it's Mike Ironside's head.

Oh, is it? Oh. Or maybe Ironside's doing it. I can't remember. Ironside's involved in some way. Love that guy. Very broad shoulders. I worked with him on a community episode.

Him and Brian Denny. He was in one of my community episodes. He's terrific. He told great stories about some movie he was on with like Arnold Schwarzenegger. That was a total recall. Yeah, total recall. Total recall. He was talking about being in a room and they just, the cigarette smoke, like that they

would, in order to get the room smoky back then to like shoot with atmosphere. Not only did they use to smoke, but there used to be buckets of cigarettes, just like smoking into the room to like get it. Okay. Well, that's ridiculous because smoke machines definitely existed. But that's like apropos to what we're talking about here. So we were, so we were saying, great, make it look like scanners. And the visual, the special effects guys were like, we can't do that.

And we were like, what are you talking about? It's 30 years later. And they were like, well, no, the way that they got that, because we want to, there's a couple of takes that we actually did where the head, I think we had three heads and the two takes did not work because the pyrotechnic just didn't work. It just kind of like fell apart. And our special effects guy was like, look, the way that they did that, because he researched it was the guy came in with a shotgun and right off camera, just blew the head away

with a shotgun. And we were like, let's do that. And he was like, I can't do that. We, it's not, it's not the 1970s. So at the same time when they were burning cigarettes on sets, they were taking shotguns. Just hot guns and live rounds on set, blowing heads up, probably had a cigarette in his mouth. Yeah, sure.

So how did we, I don't remember, and we were, by the way, that was the first time we shot with the phantom. That was the first time we shot with the phantom camera, the load, the first one was like 30% and then it was like 60% and then he put in like, and we had, everybody had to leave and put on ear protection and shit. And he essentially just, I mean, he blew the thing up with like the force of, and it was that, if that's funny, my memory, he shot it with a shotgun. Now, yeah, right.

Right. Now in scanners, I believe, I feel like the face, like it explodes, but the face actually like flaps in a like a really interesting way, which we have, which we have in here. What do you mean? The, the horn's bone, and I shall make sure that all of you are safe from the mighty sword of... Shit! God damn it, Frank, you just ruined my whole life.

Wait, wait, wait, check his pulse. He doesn't have a head. Yeah, a good chunk of it flies off the side, but... Well, you, then you see an eye, you get a great eyeball, just an eyeball goes in. You know, part of the shame of it though is like having to use the different camera just to get the slow shot. So then it jumps so much that it's a little less surprising, it's so fun, because you're like part of how silly it looks.

You can definitely see that it's a bone. Oh yeah. And also then Charlie being like, well, check his pulse. I was literally like a sprout of blood that goes out of his neck in that moment. Check his pulse. Check his pulse. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Check his pulse.

Check his pulse. That was in the script. That was in the script. Speaking of effects, how did you guys get Robb's wooden teeth to make that noise? Oh, first of all, yeah, that's... Your performance. Your wooden teeth acting, yeah, your acting in general is amazing. Your acting is amazing.

That's one of your best episodes, I think. I totally agree. You've had many, many good ones, but I think this is one of your best. The two of you guys together, all those scenes. Those sons of liberty, sons of bitches, Dennis, those guys are going to get us into so much trouble. Let's do this. No, no, no, no.

You hang back. What? We get as much intel from these guys as we possibly can for that Colonel Crickett. Stop things. It's going to totally blow our cover. What's going on with your mouth? Oh, I got some wooden teeth put in. Did you?

Yeah, well, all the Patriots are doing it, including Washington, which is why it makes sense, okay, if we're going undercover. Not this fop bullshit. No, the fop thing's good, man. I got to plan with it. Yeah. I got an angle. Fine.

Okay, let's just... You let me take the lead, okay? Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shut up, bitch. But yeah, the wooden teeth is such a funny... How did you do that? How did you do that whistle?

Yeah, there's no teeth in there, it's my teeth just painted. Painted brown. So I was just doing it with like a whistle. But are you making that whistle noise? Yeah. Can you do that? We asked some whistles and posts do. And then we would add...

Yeah, so that's exactly right. So I... Can you do it now? Yeah, so what were some of the... So, like, some of the lines. And then we would... And then what I did was, in post, I just went like... And then we would just drop it in.

Oh, I don't... See, I don't remember that. Yeah. It's so good. It's so good. I'm talking about here. I mean, that's fucking... I can't do that.

I can't do that. The combination of that guy and then your fop and that first scene where you go to the revolutionaries and then you're like, what are we talking about? And you're like... Surrenders! Surrenders! I think the whistle's making the whole... Yeah, the whistle's the whole thing.

Yeah. It's the whole thing making it work. I was on my old trainer, Matt Vinci, playing one of the Patriots. Oh. He used to work out with... Right. He seems like a patriot. He seems like a real patriot.

Yeah. In real life, he's... You think he's a big patriot? And so he just comes off like a patriot because he is one? Yeah. He seems like he could kick butt for America. You know? Square jaw.

Yeah. Just a... Well, you guys seem like traders and fops. Yeah. That's about right. That sounds about right. Did it take longer to shoot this episode? Probably.

I think it took longer because we had to redress the whole bar. Yeah. Which was a big deal. But once it was dressed, once the sets were all built, it wasn't super complicated. Where'd you shoot all that stuff that was like out in the marketplace and stuff? Lacey Street Studios, and it was not a nice studio. No. Kind of rough around the edges.

And we just brought in the dirt and the chickens, but they had a lot of like brick and stuff. Yeah. But I mean, all that stuff had to be built. It had to be, you know, enough of it to where we could do an actual walk and talk. Then we shoot some of it in Pasadena. Yes. That sounds right. And then you guys going down the alleyway where Dave G kind of cornered you guys.

That's the alleyway in Pasadena. And then we shot in front of Patties. And then we shot in front of Patties. And we just put dirt down, and now we have a green screen. I was watching the movie Judgment Night last night, and there is absolutely... There's a shot of... The Patties? When the RV breaks down in that movie, it's right next to...

They drive right by Patties. You know what's another good classic like downtown movie is Repo Man? And it's all like the streets where we shoot Sunny. Emilio Estevez only shot nights, right? Yeah. He's like, is it night? Is it downtown LA? I'm in.

I'm in. Are there any small ducks involved? Are they mighty? Dave G. Dave G. Our buddy Dave G. Who had already been in an episode because he was in the gang cells out. He plays somebody who works at the Oldies Rock Cafe.

He's played a number of characters. Well, so he played the Oldies Rock Cafe guy with the head like a little thing. And he is given D the resume, right? And then we brought him back for the Liberty Bell. He plays the cockney guy who accosts us. He's credited as Thug. Thug. And then he comes back again.

So Dave's played three characters on the show. Dave G. That's got to be a record. Oh, and then also the courtyard where you guys go to meet David for the first time and you bring him the ale. That was in Altadena. Yeah. That was in La Cognata.

Oh. That was in La Cognata. Oh. They got an old like kind of mansiony thing. Wait, you know, are you sure that that was in La Cognata? Yeah. Was it was it like a gated community? Is La Cognata near Altadena?

Yeah, they're close. Yeah. Okay. Because I thought it was Altadena. Yeah. It's up that way. Okay. See, I had a memory and maybe this was actually a different episode.

This might have been the gang. This might have been the gang gets trapped in the closet. But maybe if you guys remember this, a very famous person lived. That was trapped in the closet. That was trapped in the closet. And that's down off Wilshire Boulevard. Okay. Yeah.

That's over. Okay. So we'll save that. Jesus, for a guy who doesn't remember about you. You remember a lot. Charlie's on top of that. I'm clear. You know why?

Because that house is near the golf course. Which one? The La Cognata one? No, the one in Wilshire. Did you take a limit list? By the way, so is the La Cognata. Did you take a limit list poll this morning? Are you limitless?

I have no limits this morning. What else do I remember? Glenn, you look like you've been working out. Man, thanks, dude. Yeah. I mean, look, I'm always working out, you know, so I'm not sure if you just now noticing it's like a compliment or not. I've been working out a lot too.

Yeah. You're the sort of person that needs to do that to feel good about themselves. What are you guys wearing to work out these days? What are you looking good in? Mainly I'm looking for versatility and comfortability. All right. Something that will fit any workout I might be doing that day, maybe running. I might be swimming, training or yoga.

And that's why I love the core shorts from Biori. Oh my God, the Biori shorts. Yeah, guys, I don't go anywhere near the gym without my Bioris. I love them. They look and they feel great as you move in them. Plus, you know what I love? Their products are made from sustainable materials and offsets 100% of its carbon and plastic footprint, so you can feel great about what you're wearing.

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Let's just jump to it. You know what? Sign up for a free trial today at Shopify.com slash Sunny, all lowercase. Yep. We're going to Shopify.com slash Sunny to start selling online today. I'm going to say it one more time. Shopify.com slash Sunny. You know, right now, we're writing the show again.

Yes. We just started. We just started writing the show again. We just started. I don't know when this podcast is going to air. This is coming out next Monday. Yeah. Okay.

We're on day two of writing. And Rob Rozel and Scott Marder are back this year in the writers room, which is really exciting. Very exciting. Very exciting. I will say when I look up at that list of episodes, I think we've discussed this. You guys feel the same way that the closer they are to the present, the least I remember them.

I remember the, I could name you every episode from seasons one through three or four, and then it starts to get, and then the closer it gets to like season 14, I have no idea. But is that because we just rewatched them for the podcast? I don't think so. I think it's because we spent so much more time making them because we were figuring out what the show was. Yeah. I think it was a much more all consuming experience in the early years because you're figuring

it out. Yeah. And everything matters. Every decision is monumental. You've also lived with the older ones longer, right? Yeah. Like whatever Gang Crack Celebrity Bell has been discussed and quoted and talked about, you know, many times.

For a longer period of time, yeah. There's been memes. There's been, they've been sort of like put into society in a way that like last year, you know, the one with the monkey, you know, is, it's just newer. It's just not been in your life as long. So like, I remember that. Yeah. I think, I mean, personally, I think it has more to do with sort of where you're at in

life where you're, you know, it's like. Yeah. Like you got a lot more going on now to like. Children. Children. Multiple shows versus when we were all. Pouring everything. Our whole life was, was a show.

We were pouring absolutely everything into it and it, and it took longer because yeah, we were figuring it out. So, so I think that's why, because every decision felt monumental. This period that we're in right now in the writer's room is my favorite part. The blue skying at the beginning. It's always the most fun because you're just like throwing a bunch of weird ideas. And anything can happen. Anything goes.

Explain to the audience what that is. Yeah. So blue skying. So the first like, what? We usually only do like a week of this on sunny, but on most shows the first couple of weeks, you just throw out episode ideas. So it could be like little tiny ideas, like full, fully formed episodes. I used to do that when I prepared more for my first day, but now you guys can't fire

me. So I come in with like half ideas. I'm like, I don't know this. But what you find is no matter what, you're eventually responsible for your lack of preparation in the beginning. Yeah. Then you have, you got to make up for it over the course of the next two months. But it's fun because then like, so Rob was sitting in with index cards and any idea that

you guys liked, he would just write it down and we'd put it up on the board. So then there's all these cards up on the board that might have ideas like, well, the judgment night thing that you guys got on to and you're really excited about for next year. That'd be interesting to talk about. Yeah. So why did we get into judgment night? We got into judgment night because of relevance.

We were talking about being relevant and our music choices being relevant and we talked about how the judgment night soundtrack was a seminal experience for people over the age of 44. Right. Yeah. That was like a huge album. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It was one of those. It was one of those albums. It was like that and like the crow soundtrack. Dangerous minds. Dangerous minds. Like a couple of soundtracks back in the day that really cut through and had like a huge cultural impact.

I don't know. So that got us talking about Cypress Hill and singing Cypress Hill songs and then half the room was like, who is Cypress Hill and what is this? Yeah. Yeah. Not half our room. Half of our room's all old. Megan.

There were a couple of things where Nina was turning to me and she was like, Nina was like, I don't know. No, Cypress Hill. Davis. Davis. Yeah. I think maybe that's why sometimes when we go through these episodes and I ask you where the ideas came from, it's so hard to remember specifically because it is so amorphous

in a writer's room like where like that Judgment Night thing might turn into an episode that you could never believe started with a conversation about the Judgment Night soundtrack and then became something else. Right. We could lose the whole Judgment Night thing. Exactly. Totally, but it inspired something. I mean, also like, yeah, it was interesting.

We're talking about that and like in Judgment Night, they've rented like Winnebago and they're trying to get to a boxing match and they pull over because traffic's bad and then they're like in a bad neighborhood and then they like see a murder and then they're like, you know, it's like a very kind of genre-based like fight your way out of hell kind of thing. But like, I don't know, there's such a problem with homelessness and there was something interesting about the idea of like literally driving around in like a second home and then trying to cut through like a homeless encampment. Yeah.

In your home. Yeah. In your mobile second home. So instead of committing the murder, or instead of seeing the murder, we think we've committed the murder and we have to get- Run over a homeless person with your other home and then we have to get out of here. Well, that's how it, that is what happens in Judgment Night, sort of, I mean, to say he's not a homeless guy, but-

He's like running for help and then he hit a guy that was just shot. But that was an accident. Yeah, you know, it was a total accident and then they rescue the guy thinking that it's because they hit him and then they discovered that he's been shot and then they find like money on him and they're like, oh, shit, what is, what are we about to get wrapped up in? And then Dennis Leary shows up. And doesn't he finish him off? Doesn't he finish him off, shoot him in the head?

Yeah, he sure does. I mean, he really, you know, got his career to an interesting place from stand-up, right? Where he got to do like dramatic stuff and- Yeah. He's a good actor. I wonder- Yeah, I'd love to actually- I don't know if he started as an actor, because some people, like, you think that they were

stand-ups, but they actually were actors first and then they just happened to do stand-up. Like, you know, I think for people who don't know that like Robin Williams went to Juilliard, they're like, oh, he was a stand-up comedian and then he became an actor and I was like, no, he was an actor first, then he started doing stand-up because he was so funny. I do remember, I think it was maybe the last season of Rescue Me and we saw Dennis Leary. I don't remember if you, I think we were all there and we ran into Dennis Leary in a hallway. I think it was at a TCA event or something. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. And he was like very effusive. In the vows of the TCA. Yeah. Yeah. And he was super nice and effusive and it was really cool because I, one of my first, God, was it my first, no, I think it was my second on-camera gig, it might be offensive

in today's- But it wasn't offensive at the time. Was the job- It was definitely offensive at the time, but it probably was. Didn't we talk about this, the job? Yeah. Yeah, so I don't think we've talked about it on the podcast, so yeah, it was a show that Dennis Leary did, it was a half-hour comedy, but it was about cops and it was called

The Job and I believe it was on ABC. And I remember auditioning, going into this audition to play a gay wedding planner. And I remember, I didn't know, I was like, I didn't know like sort of tonally what they were going for with this. So I remember going into the audition and again, this is a part that was like, I don't even know if saying this would be considered offensive, but I was just trying to get a performance note from the casting director and from the director and the people that were there. I was like, how gay are we talking?

Like, you know what I mean, like, give me a range, you know, like- How cartoonish. How much of a stereotype are we looking for? Do we want to make the situation better or worse, just socially? Yes. Okay. Yes. Am I making fun of this entire group of-

No. No, it was literally, I was like, I was like, I just, you know- You were basing him on a real person. Well, okay. That's so yes. That is actually true. But that, okay. That came after they said like, I was like on a scale of, you know, on a scale of one

to 10, you know, how, how effeminate do you want this man to be? And they were like, an 11. What? And I was like- An 11. Are you sure? And they were like- Yeah.

A bunch of straight people in a room being like, let's go for it. Yeah, go for it. Let's just see. I think they just wanted to see what an 11 was. Sure. You know what I mean? Since I- And they were like, well, since you asked, you know, let's-

Let's have a shot. Let's see what you got. What's your 11? So I gave them an 11 and it was, and it was, to be fair, totally and 100% based on a guy that, that was in the dance division at Juilliard at the same time as me. Yep. And- You were up by Benjamin Harcarvey.

Yeah. Yes. Rest in peace. All right. And so I was basically like, I'm just going to do that because that's an 11. So then when up, they were like, they were all, they loved it. They were like, wow. Wow.

Yeah. I think they, I think, well, I got, they hired me, so they must have liked it. And then when I went, when I actually shot it, I went prepared to like fully be that guy. And when I started shooting it, actually, they were like, they had me dial it back. So what's in that show is actually like- Dial back. A seven. Okay.

That's a seven. Rob, what are you playing your gay character at? Me? Yeah. A three. Oh. As a stereotype? Yeah.

No, a zero. I'm playing a zero. Well, so that's the question, right? I mean, you know, because you can, you can definitely see it as a stereotype, you know, but I was playing essentially a real human being that I had met and encountered and talked to and was, you know, friendly with. So this was a person that I knew. This is a real human being that I was basing this on.

So stereotype, yeah, you could see it that way for sure. You're saying that oftentimes stereotypes are 100% true. Well, that's true, isn't it? Not for whole groups of people, but sometimes for individual people. For individual people. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm not saying it's right to portray them that way. I didn't say that my performance was completely dialed in, you know, in that, in that sense. But you know, for clarification, I was playing a real human being. Yes. But when you are on that show, were you a big fan of Dennis Leary before you got there? Was he one of your like comedy, did you grow up like watching comedians and like coming in that way? Or was it just the acting thing?

And then you found comedy? It was both. I mean, I, at the time I was, yeah, no, I didn't consider myself a comedy person at all. I mean, I, I knew I liked doing comedy. I felt like, you know, amongst my group of friends, maybe I was, I was funny and, but I had a lot of super funny friends. And as, as you, I think you've pointed out with like your buddies and Philly, you feel like you're the least funny person of all your friends.

And yet you've made a career out of it. I often feel that way where I'm like, I've got so many friends that are so much funnier than me. And yet somehow I've made a career in comedy. I didn't grow up watching. Did you grow up watching a lot of stand up? Yeah. Lots of stand up.

How did you access that? Was that Comedy Central? Yeah. Oh, I didn't have cable. Oh, okay. Yeah. And also, um, I would be to watch SNL and then after SNL was, um, uh, Showtime at the Apollo. Oh, Showtime at the Apollo?

Yeah. Yeah. And I used to watch that a lot, which was great. And then, um, Because they even started to stand up. Yeah. They started, they did some stand up and some different acts and stuff. Oh, there was, um, Star Search?

Star Search. Star Search. Star Search. That's where I saw Sinbad. That's where Sinbad came out of Star Search. Yeah. Um, my dad was a big fan of stand up, so he used to play comedy records like Bill Cosby and George Carlin and stuff.

Oh, yeah, I remember all those. Richard, the old Richard Pryor and Bill Cosby. Then I used to read their books. Like I went through this phase where I would like go to the library and like check out any book that was written by like a stand up comedian I would like read. So I read like Tim Allen's book and like. I read Desleary's book. The one about Nyquil.

Yeah. I probably read that one too. Chris Brooks book. Yeah. Nyquil is in the title of the book. He had like a whole, a whole act that was based on Nyquil and how much he loved Nyquil. You know, I did, I did though, I did, I admired him tremendously because I had seen his stand up.

I wasn't like a huge stand up fan, but I knew enough and I did, I remember him standing out to me in a major way. The first time I ever saw him on MTV, I was like, holy shit, this guy is something else. Like he is really funny. When someone is on the top of their game and you watch them firing on all cylinders in front of a crowd. It's pretty compelling. It's amazing.

But then he also had a stand up special that really put him on the map. I think it was called no cure for cancer. Oh yeah. Yeah. Stand up, act, yeah. He was smoking the whole time. He was smoking the whole time and it's hilarious. It's fucking amazing.

And so I knew him from that. And then I don't think at the time I really knew his acting stuff that much, but I just admired him as a performer. So yeah, it was exciting. It was cool. I think he still smokes. I don't think he does, no. I don't know.

Dennis, you still smoking, pal? It's time. It's time. It's time. But the stop smoking thing, it reminds me of, I recently saw an article about a guy, I can't remember where it was, but who hadn't taken a bath in like 65 years. Oh yeah. And then they couldn't seem to do it.

And he died like a few days like that. Yeah. And you do think about that, you're like, okay, let's say a person ate bacon, just tons of bacon and smoked a ton of cigarettes and all this stuff for their entire life. And then if they make a change, does your body become so acclimated to that one way of life? Well, I think if you don't wean it, you know what I mean? Maybe he shouldn't have taken a full on bath, maybe just like walk through the rain first,

you know? Or like just wash your hands. Wash your hands. Right, right, right. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. Hey guys, the Always Sunny podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Do you ever wish life came with an owner's manual like your vehicle? Do you struggle to understand why you're feeling feelings?

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That's betterhelp.com slash sunny. This is going back to something we were talking about earlier, but it's interesting to me to ask you guys. So none of you have ever been in a writer's room as a writer for somebody else's show, right? No. You're trying like just pitching ideas to somebody else's thing, or have you done that? I did pop into the writer's room a few times when Martyn and Roselle, when we produced

Unsupervised. Yes. That's the one time I've ever spent some time in a writer's room where I was like breaking stories and talking about story ideas on somebody else's show, even though I was an EP on the show. But other than that, no. It's interesting that like none of you have ever… It's hard.

I did that with them too. And it'd be like, I think we should go there, and they're like, no, we should go somewhere else. I'm like… But it seems like I know we should go there. Well, no, we're going this direction. I'm like, but that… Well, it's like if you started out as the lead singer, songwriter in a band, right?

And then somebody said, come in and sing backup vocals for me. And you went in and you're like, well, we'll sing it like this. And they're like, well, no, you're doing backup. So you just… You're like… I don't know if it's analogous to that because you are contributing. It would be like someone's like… It would be like Simon and Garfunkel.

And Simon's like, well, this is the way we've been doing it and Art, you've been helping out with the songwriting. But we're going to do it like this. And then one day our Garfunkel's like, no, we're going to do it like this. And then Paul Simon's like, goodbye. Garfuck off. Garfuck yourself. Garfuck yourself.

That's better. Nice. It's just interesting to me because like you guys are great showrunners to work for. And Brian Kent said. Yeah. And they're not paying me to say this. But you would think that that would come because you've worked in rooms and you know how to treat people fairly because you've been.

But it's just interesting that like you guys have never been on that side of it and still treat people with like respect and dignity when they're in the room. Well, maybe why we treat people with respect and dignity. Maybe. You know, I think it could be that, you know, if you come out of years of being demoralized by a showrunner, you know, and then you finally get your shot, you're like, I find that more often than not. The people, if they haven't gone through something, if they've been mistreated, they tend to mistreat.

Yeah. Maybe that's it. Because they've either, that's the way that they've learned or because they truly feel like now this is. I think it's often just who you are, right? I've not been mistreated like on a show or like, you know, like on a movie or like in a writer's room. I don't think I would take it very well.

I've been mistreated, but not like abused in any like real way. Not in the way that a lot of people have been mistreated in this business. I got, have I told the story working with that director on Fargo where with the props? No. That I told the story? No. Okay. So I've been extremely lucky too.

I haven't really run into too many problems on, on sets with like jerks or, or somebody being a jerk to me. And I very much, very much don't, wouldn't take it well. And I knew that I wouldn't take it well and luckily I'd never encountered it. So never had to deal with it. But I was working on an episode of Fargo and there was a director who I just, you know, I don't know. Whatever.

Anyway. We were setting up a scene. Well, I was going to. Anyway, yeah, he's there, he's there, he's there right now. If you were to take his blood pressure and do the roof, you're not wrong, you're not wrong. Now what does fuckers say? What, what does, for this guy?

Well, so it was a scene with me and Billy Bob and I had to do a thing where, okay. So the scene was I had to use one of those like, you know, those voice modulators that you put like on the phone to modulate your voice or like those or whatever. So my character is supposed to take this voice modulator, put it on the phone, dial, dial the phone and call someone and use the thing, you know. So we're in the rehearsal and, you know, we're like, well, let me rehearse this with the props just because, you know, I want to make sure that it all like, so it's not goofy, you know.

So I have the voice modulator in one hand and then I've got to grab the receiver. It was one of those phones where the numbers were on the thing. So this thing was kind of big. And then I've got the receiver in this hand and I was like, you know, and this is a rehearsal like in front of the crew. Like I don't think the whole crew was there, but there were people watching the rehearsal, you know. And I was like, oh, you know what?

This is a little awkward because I'm not sure how I'm, if I've already got this in my hand, you know, how, how am I supposed to dial the phone, you know, like with this thing in my hand. And he was like, you've never dialed a phone before. And I was like, and I changed immediately because I knew what that meant. You know, that's, that's not a, that's not a real question, you know. So I think that's why I said to him, I was like, is that a real question? And he was like, he was like, just, you just dial the phone as you would any other phone.

And I was like, you've misunderstood my question. I have something in both hands. My fingers are occupied. So what I'm saying that you've misunderstood is how am I supposed to dial a phone with fingers that I don't have? Do you understand my question now? And this guy was like, and this guy was like, who the fuck does this guest star, like that was, I could tell that was what he was thinking was like, who the fuck does this guest star

think he is? And I was like, motherfucker, I'll walk off this set. I don't give a shit. I don't give a fuck. See, we responded that differently because like my response would be like, okay, I'll figure it out, like I just want to make you pleased and happy. I was like, no, you explain it. You explain it because you seem to understand how a man with no fingers can use his fingers

to dial a phone. So you explain it to me and the whole fucking crew right now. You prick. But Meg, to your point, I get when you say like, you want to make the environment as peaceful as possible. But if someone comes at you with that level of disdain or aggression, would you respond the same way? Yeah.

Well, I mean, there's two, like for me, I'm trying to get better, but there's usually two options. One is appease and like get the situation back to peace. However, quickly we can do that or burst into tears and then leave. But you would, you would and have removed yourself from the situation, thought on it and then eventually acted and called bad behavior out. And which is to say, like you, you want it completely, you might take it in the moment, but that doesn't mean you're totally going to take it.

No, I'm not. Different triggers too, right? Like for some reason, my biggest trigger when it comes to that kind of thing is if somebody tries to, like, and I'm better about it now than I used to be when I was younger, I real fucking temper about this, but like if anybody tried to humiliate me, certainly, even if it wasn't in front of other people, but certainly if it was like in front of people, that would, nothing would set me off more than like, you know, somebody trying to humiliate me. Because that's what it felt like.

It felt like he was trying to humiliate me and I was like, I have had that happen and at the time, like I didn't do anything about it, but you know what has helped me now is like just having enough wins, like having the confidence of looking back and like in particular, I'm remembering a showrunner that I was on set with one of the episodes that I'd written and the showrunner wasn't on set. And when we first screened the episode, the editor's cut in the writer's room, this showrunner didn't like it and said to me in front of the whole writer's room, is this what you think TV is?

No, no, seriously, is this what you think TV is supposed to be like? Tell me right now that this is what you think that TV is supposed to be like? This is what you think it's supposed to be like? And just kept hammering me on that and I was like, I don't even know what you don't like about it. Like, but then I, but I was really nervous because I was like, oh, I fucked up the episode and it's already been shot, so we can't do anything about it. Hated it.

I immediately was like, you should humiliate me because I ruined it. And so felt like that until the episode aired and then it was like one of the most popular episodes of the show ever. So then now I have the confidence of looking back at moments like that and going, well, consider the source. Like, do you think this person is the end all be all of knowing everything about what TV is? If so, then you can feel shame for what, but so that's helped.

But like at the beginning, yeah, I mean, I also, even as a guest star, you were like famous enough or successful enough that you felt like I can walk out of here and still have a career. But I was like, you know, a young writer on a staff, I was like, I can't be like, fuck you. I can walk out of this room. Yeah, I think to be fair, I think this time and place work. Yeah.

I think if I wasn't in the position, if I needed, if I desperately needed that job, I might have been able to, I might have just swallowed it a little bit in that moment, but knowing that I didn't. Yeah. But I bet it ended right after that exchange, right? Like it shut him down. Well, that's what happened. Because that's what happened.

Yeah, with bullies, right? Because he became very nice after that. They don't bully a guy like you, especially if they know, oh, this guy's not going to take it. They bully someone like Megan who's in her first year. It's like, you know, famous directors who you've heard have like terrible tempers and you see like clips of them like freaking out on somebody on set and you're like, well, they're not freaking out on the guy that can kick the living shit out of them.

Yeah. Bullets bully writ large. But to bring it, bring it around back to like this episode and taking big swings and stuff. I think that the real shame of doing stuff like that, of trying to humiliate somebody or like being like a shitty boss is that you like, you kind of suffocate that person's ability to just like try things. You got to kick around some bad ideas to get to a good one.

Also my half idea might merge with somebody else's half idea and then become like, but if I never say it out loud, it never, almost every episode of our show has been a result of like some weird conversation about like, you know, some fucking dumb moment. There's a balance though, right? Like if you feel all your pitches are going over like a lead balloon, then you probably should pick up on that and be like, all right, let me, let me think through these a little bit more before I pitch them. Yeah.

But yeah. Well, I'm trying to certainly pitch sunny ideas to you guys, not like any random idea that I, you know, I try to tailor it to the people that I'm pitching to and feel like I know you guys a little bit now. So I was a little bit successful yesterday in the writer's room, feel like I got some things on note cards. No. Okay.

And it's, well, a lot of them I'm thinking like, is that what you think, tell me? Yeah. Is this really what you think? Yeah. We should pull that out at some point today. Speaking of writing. Speaking of writing. We have to go.

We have to go. Write the show. Yeah. Let's go. All right.