The Bechdel Cast - Heathers with Paige Weldon

Episode Date: February 23, 2017

Heather (Jamie Loftus) and Heather (Caitlin Durante) invite Heather (Paige Weldon) to chat about Heathers. How very!(This episode contains spoilers)Follow @paigeweldon on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. Jake Storielli here from John Boy Media. I want to tell you about my podcast, Wake and Jake. I've been a sports nut my whole life, and there's nothing I love more than talking about it.

If you're a sports fan, Wake and Jake is the place for you. Covering all the hot topics from the sports world. A lot of baseball, a lot of postseason coverage, mock drafts, awards, guest interviews, all of it. New episodes every Monday and Wednesday. Come watch along on the Wake and Jake YouTube channel or listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, Amy Robach here along with TJ Holmes. And we have a very exciting announcement to make to all of you. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listeners navigate the busy news cycle and the historic political season that the country is facing. And we're going to do this now each and every day. Listen to Morning Run on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast start changing it with the bechdel cast welcome to the bechdel cast here we are again we're talking about movies about girls uh my name is jamie my name is caitlin here we are here we are thanks for tuning in i don't think we've ever introduced it that way before. No. That wasn't the right way to do it. Let's change it up. Well, we're talking about girls in movies, and sometimes they're treated real mean. Sometimes they are. Sometimes they're not.

Usually, though. They are. Usually, though, they are. But sometimes they get to wear a tank top, and you can see the shape of their nipples. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's in scary movies. This podcast is inspired by the Bechdel test.

If you don't know what it is, I'll try to say it really, really fast. Sorry, I didn't mean to yell. You're like clenching a bottle of Hennessy. Yes, I am. Like we're in a ludicrous video or something. I'm going to reward myself with a swig of it as soon as I do a very good job describing what the Bechdel test is. Are you ready? Go, go, go. It's a test that is applied to movies.

A thing will pass the test if there are two women talking to each other about something other than a man. I love it. And they have to have names. Yes. Oh, yeah. We change the rules. The characters have to have names. We change the rules. We used to be like, but then we're like, we're firm on this rule now. We're firm. All right. Hear that? Do you hear it?

This is the lid going off. Oh, my God. You're so brave. It's actually not that bad. I do feel like we should maybe just rehash the date we went on over the weekend. Yes. Really quick? Let's do that.

Oh, you also have to tell your bus story. Oh, because this is, yes. And I also wanted to say that I bought tickets to a monster truck rally for just me on Saturday. I'm going to treat myself. Very nice. I've never been to a monster truck rally. Is it like for work? Do you have to write a piece on it, or are you just doing it? Yeah, I had to get someone to pay.

I wasn't going to pay for it. Sure. But I was like, I could drive to Anaheim. I've got the time. Yeah. I'm going to go see a monster truck rally. That's terrific. Yeah.

I think I'll probably get a new boyfriend there. Seems like a good place to scout. Yeah. But we did go to a place in, was it, where? It was in Koreatown. Okay, called Cafe Jack on Saturday night? Yes. Yes.

I've been there. You've been there? Really? Oh, it is. Sorry. Okay, can we bring our guest into the discussion? Because I would love to hear. Okay.

So our guest today is Paige Weldon. She's wonderful. She's a writer. She's a comedian. And she's been to Cafe Jack. Yeah. Hi. Hello.

Thanks for being here. What's going on? You went to Cafe Jack? Yeah. Yeah, we did. Because we did the Titanic episode last week. Because you heard it was a boat. We didn't know it was a boat. We didn't know it was a boat.

I did not know that part about it. I thought it was like a swanky, cool, like loungy club bar thing. It's crazy how none of those words describe what it is. Not at all. It is. It's like even worse than a dive somehow. Were there other people there when you went? There were very few other people there.

Okay. Same. Yeah. With us. It was, yeah, I think there might have been people there, but they also might have worked there. It wasn't clear. I think. It was freezing in there.

It was freezing. There was one other group of diners there with us. It's like an Asian fusion restaurant that's shaped like Titanic. And it. There's a lot of laser jet printer pictures from the Titanic movie framed around the restaurant. My favorite part was they have, if it's like an intimate, like we started in one of these intimate booths, but it was like sticky everywhere. So we moved to a much greasier booth.

Greasier, but they're pictures of Leonardo DiCaprio. But they had these little rooms, those little weird compartments. And then there was one of them where there was just an unfinished wall. It was just drywall. And then nailed to it was a poster for Curious George. Like the one that came out in 2006 and it was framed. And that was my favorite one. I went there on a date because we heard there was frozen yogurt.

I received a text that was, would you like to get fro-yo at this restaurant that's shaped like a boat? And I was like, I would love to. Yeah. And then we got there and they led us into one of those rooms. It was huge. And there was just two of us. And we were very uncomfortable. And then we moved out into another area.

And I felt like the woman was upset that we did that. But there was no frozen yogurt. Oh, no. There was just smoothies and stuff. We got sushi. Caitlin's theory is that they order sushi from a different restaurant and bring it to you. That feels very true. The pictures did not line up.

We got the Titanic roll and the Jack Rose roll. The Titanic roll in the picture was blue. What we ate was not blue. It could have also just been like poorly printed menus. It was totally blue. Really? Yeah. What would even be blue on a sushi roll?

I thought maybe sprinkles. Okay. Well, either way, we went on a fun little date to Cafe Jack. We did. And we had a great time. Good date. We are here to talk about another movie that's not Titanic, unfortunately. I just wish we could talk about it for every episode.

I feel like we'll probably do it again. We might. There's more to be said. Yeah, there's a bunch of things that I wanted to say and I didn't say. But we'll get to that later on another Titanic episode. For now, we are here with Paige and we're talking about

the movie Heathers. Yay! So Paige, tell us about why'd you pick this movie? What it means to you? When did you first see it? I picked it because I've seen it, like, a zillion times. It's one of my favorite movies in high school. Growing up, I just always loved it, and it was just one of the first ones that came to mind.

Yeah. So you first saw it when you were in high school? Maybe middle school. It was pretty cool. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I think I saw it first in, like, early high school. And I remember thinking it was, like, the fucking coolest movie ever. I thought I had I saw it first in like early high school. And I remember thinking it was like the fucking coolest movie ever.

Yeah. I thought I had also seen it before. And then I rewatched it and nothing was familiar about it at all. Like part of me thinks that I might have seen an episode of that cartoon. I think it's called Recess where they have all the different Ashleys. And I think I was confusing that for the movie heathers it was very different than i remembered like watching it however i guess almost 10 years later is like it was like watching a totally different movie and i didn't like it as much this time it like made me feel

weird i don't know but i used to think it was the dopest thing ever and i wanted to you know kiss people later on his mouth yeah i, kill my oppressors the whole bit. Yeah. Christian Slater is very charming. Yes. He's terrifying. He is. So scary.

And so wait, when's the last time you saw it? I probably would have watched it like maybe a couple years ago. But I feel like I've watched it so many times in my life that I don't think I ever really even had a chance to get enough distance from it that I'd rewatch it and feel differently. I just always felt like this is the best. Caitlin did not like it. I don't like it. Oh, now I don't know because I started rewatching it again.

Don't be influenced. It's okay. And I was like, you know, it's the first half. I feel like it falls apart at a certain point. And then I have a really hard time connecting with any of the characters. And by the end, like no one is redeemable for me. But there are some like specific things I like about it. For example, I like that there's the running joke that anytime someone is like addressing a Heather, they all know exactly which one she's talking about.

Yeah. I like that. I like a few different lines of dialogue. Yeah, the dialogue is so fun. Well, the movie has its own slang, which is really cool. It'll be very. Very what? Just very.

But you know what they mean. Yeah, I know exactly what they mean. I very know what they mean. Good job. Good job. Thank you know what they mean. Yeah, I know exactly what they mean. I very know what they mean. Oh, good job. Good job. Thank you. You did it. One of my favorite lines of dialogue is, did you have a brain tumor for breakfast?

So fun. I love it. So I like a few different, like some of the running jokes are good and fun but overall i think my main problem with it is that i just don't find any of the characters redeemable enough for me to connect to the story which i know is kind of the point like everyone's terrible in this movie i don't think veronica is terrible see i think she is and i know that i'm probably wrong about this and i took to Facebook and I said, hey, why? Decimated, baby. People hated me. Decimated on the book.

And I tried to pose the question sincerely. And it, I think, did not come off sounding sincere. But I was like, hey, just curious, why do you like this movie, you idiots? Yeah, I think that that was the part where you lost. I would have a hard time answering. No, I left out the idiot's part. I was just like, why do you like this movie? And then I think it probably sounded very snarky.

And then everyone got very mad at me. And they're like, it's so brilliant. Blah, blah, blah. Well, I don't think that Veronica's a bad person. She just made me very sad a lot of the movie. And I think she's like not she's like dumb she like there are so many parts of this movie where it's like okay this this script has a very specific logic of how this world works but there were some times where i'm like this this girl is keeping an active

diary of a number of felonies like what an thing to do. She could not be acting more guilty at school. I think that's why, like, high school is the ideal time to watch it, because you're like, I am also this dumb. Right. That's what I would do, too. And I feel like that's, like, that's maybe why it's hard to like her, because she's a stupid teenager. Yeah.

As someone who... Yeah, it's like when I watched it in high school, I didn't think she was dumb at all. I thought she was, like, fucking awesome. Yeah, awesome it was like of course she's keeping a diary yeah she wants to do this not only that she's seeing these other these friends of hers who are behaving horribly they're like really mean they're bullies basically they play croquet she's not oh my god there are parts when i like think they're being mean to each other but because They play croquet. So Heathers is a movie about four friends, three Heathers, one Veronica. Veronica is our pro tag. She's not like the other girls.

She's brunette. But she hangs out with the Heathers. One of the Heathers is brunette. I just love her. But she isn't Shannon Daugherty. She's like technically like a red. You're right. She's auburn.

She's auburn. Yeah. And she's also like the most bulimic, which that scene where Winona Ryder makes Shannon Daugherty throw up. I almost wish we got to see it. Anyways. So they're like the most popular girls in school. They, you know, own everybody.

And then Veronica meets Christian Slater. Don't remember his name. J.D. J.D., of course, who is like pretty much a standard 90s trench coat killer who draws her into a very toxic, weird relationship. And they start to kill everyone they don't like at the high school. And it's a metaphor for something. Yeah. And they're framing it as suicides, though.

So they have to keep up this idea that the people they're murdering have actually committed suicide. Right. There's one thing I thought was interesting, just to like, if we're just jumping right into the gender stuff, is that the girls and boys at this high school are all equally stupid. Which is nice, because it would be very easy to be like, oh, like oh like you know the heathers are so vapid and insecure and all this stuff but like the the guys like at any high school are just as bad and just express it in different ways so i liked that that was cool yeah everyone's dumb everyone including the adults yeah the adults are very dumb there are those a few scenes where like the faculty are meeting about what to do about these students' suicides. And the one's like, let's just all hold hands and sing about love.

And then everyone else is like, shut up, you dumb hippie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was weird. The reason that I don't really like Veronica is that she's seeing her friends display like this horrible behavior being bullies and like the Martha Dunstock character they're very mean to her and she sees this happening and you can tell she's uncomfortable with it but she still is very like complicit in this behavior and that's like high school that's what high school is you like decide who is gonna give give you the most social cachet. Yeah.

It reminds me, it's sort of similar to Freaks and Geeks, how Lindsay Weir starts hanging out with those cool kids and stops talking to her friend, and she knows that she doesn't really know if it's the morally right thing to do. Obviously, this is a more cartoonish extreme version, but I get that of you have people maybe you were friends with morally right thing to do obviously this is a more like cartoonish extreme version but uh i i get that of like you have people maybe you were friends with when you were younger and you know

that it's wrong to ditch them but you also desperately want to be cool and being friends with the heathers allows veronica to be cool and go to college parties and do whatever she thinks she's supposed to be doing to be like a cool kid. Yeah, like watching those scenes with Martha, those are like so hard to watch because, I don't know, like there is definitely a time in my high school experience where I could see myself doing that. And even though it's like, I don't think I'm a bad person, but I think that, you know, if any, I don't know, I just go back and I'm like, man, if Samantha Honeywell's approval was on the line, I might be a real jackass to someone. Yeah, and you might even regret it immediately, but you would do it. Right, right, because it's like the immediate social survival or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah, that was hard to watch, but I think for me, it was like, because it was real. Yeah, it hurt my feelings. I don't know. Maybe I'm just a wonderful person who's never been mean to anyone. You're amazing. That's pretty cool. Honestly, congrats. That's definitely not true. But like I've been a dick to people. But I still just, despite what I know about like people wanting to fit in and be with the popular kids and do anything to elevate their social status, especially in high school.

I just like couldn't find Veronica to be redeemable at all. And maybe it's just because I hadn't seen it as a younger person and like just yeah watched it recently but oh god she's supposed to be what 16 or 17 yeah i think they're juniors i think yeah i don't know i i felt for veronica i mean she's an idiot she's the dumbest uh at certain parts like the when when jd is you know convincing her to kill a second set of people, they've already killed Heather and he's like, no, but this one is a joke. These are German bullets.

But the first one, he also makes it look like he was kidding and it was an accident, too. Right, but it's like, does she really? Well, it's two things. One, I think she probably at least partially knows that it's real, but like it's real. Yeah.

But, like, it's allowing her to have, like, an excuse. I guess so. Like, she can be like, oh, I didn't know. Yeah, I feel like she does kind of play dumb. Because I think she does potentially maybe want them dead. Or at least she said so in her diary. Well, she's also doing the same thing with JD that she does with the Heathers. Where it's just next day, you're like, now this is what I think is cool.

So I'm going to do whatever this person wants so I can keep hanging out with this person. And she does kind of hate them. I hate all my friends. Yeah. It's one of my favorite. I don't really like my friends. There's that. And right after the first Heather dies, she's like oh my god i killed my

best friend and jd's like and your worst enemy and she's like same difference drama wow i don't know i i feel like i was reading through my notes on the way over here and i was like oh i was slowly unraveling as i watched this movie because i did watch this movie in a bus station. So the Wi-Fi in the bus station was great. Oh, hey. But I didn't have my, you know, you look at something you wrote and you're like, oh, my butt was really sore when I was writing this. So there, I don't know, like this movie came out in 1988. And it's weird.

I don't know. There was like, there were a lot of parts of this movie that really like made me feel terrible. And dare I say, triggered? Triggered. I could see how many scenes in this movie would be triggering. I hate using that word seriously, but I think it might have been there is well it's like two two things this came out in 88 and christian slater's pretty much playing the idealized school shooter like the fucking crazy full-on wearing a trench coat talking about you know this psychotic bullshit about society

and why everyone should just be fucking eradicated, man, and whatever. And it's not anyone's fault, but it's just weird to watch this movie and see with the knowledge of how many similar things happened in the 20 years after that movie came out. And there were plenty of movies i feel like that came out that were very like teenager destructive stuff like that in like

the 80s and 90s but it was just i don't know like certain things that he was saying was like this feels like some columbine shit like it just didn't at the time it was like, ah, that's funny, but I didn't, I don't know. It was just weird to think about. I, well, the scenes that I thought that you were maybe going to talk about regarding being triggered. Oh, I'll get there, yeah. The multiple scenes where a man is forcing himself on a woman and she's like violently fighting back and he's just like very aggressively trying to kiss her and or have sex with her. It happens I think at least three times

with like three different sets of characters. That scene where Heather gives the blowjob to impress the college boy is so sad. It's so sad. And then afterwards she like takes a drink of water and spits it on the mirror and it's like oh dude. Yuck. Yeah. It's so sad. And then afterwards she takes a drink of water and spits it on the mirror. And it's like, oh, dude.

Yuck. Yeah. But that one was generally, I was just like, oh, I'll be sad. I know she's going to die. I'm having a really hard time processing this movie in terms of what we talk about on this podcast. Usually, so far the movies have been very like oh this movie objectively treats the women bad like there's pretty much no question about it or like this movie does a pretty good job this one i like don't really know how to what to say about it or how to discuss it because part of me is like okay it boils down to this group of women who are very

terrible to each other they're best friends, but they also hate each other and they bully each other. So that's not a fun thing to see on screen or that's not a great way for women to be portrayed because that is a huge trope where women are, like women on women, crime or hatred or violence or just meanness is never great. But I also think I'm missing the point when I watch this movie that's the point yeah but it's shitty and everyone in this movie is mean

like i don't know that didn't bother me too much like the and and i i feel like i don't know like the scene where heather goes down in the college boy like it's written so that we know that it's not being endorsed like it looks wrong yeah like nothing anyone does in this movie is being endorsed as a right thing to do except maybe the ending that she cuts him out of her life and and like reaches out to martha um oh my god when martha speaks her voice is so soft. Yeah. I'm like, what happened to her? I guess that's part of why I don't, I mean, just like watching so many, like scene after scene that's just hard to watch of like people being horrible to each other. I think it's just a big part of why I don't like this movie, just because I don't like that type of movie.

Here's a fun thing they do a lot in this movie that made me laugh constantly when veronica and jd are about to kill someone uh it's usually in the dead of night and they're always yelling like yelling in the kitchen of someone they're about to murder it happens like three separate times and one time it's a dream but for the most part they just walk in speaking at full volume. Like, so what should we do? Do you want to put bleach in the coffee? What do you want to do? And they immediately, like, that genuinely made me laugh. Also, steampunk alert.

Ooh. Winona Ryder. I didn't notice. Well, it's a reach. But Winona Ryder wears a monocle for a lot of this movie. She's writing in her journal. Yes. That is pretty steampunky.

Super true. for a lot of this movie. Yes, that is pretty steampunky. This is our this is our episode-ly reminder that we do not endorse steampunk or steampunk culture. Speak for yourself, Jamie. I love it. We, I told you about, okay, so this was actually the weekend when I saw this movie, when I saw that steampunk

demonstration taking place in San Francisco and I almost killed myself on the street i was so mad i think i've already mentioned this in another episode but he was the guy was wearing like a suede vest and goggles and he had these accordion stilts it was horrifying oh you did mention that i know i know but this was it was really bad've got pics. I've got pics. But that was upsetting. Just another trigger. Just I'm so triggered.

Hashtag triggered. But I do. I this is a tough movie because you don't want to overthink what is very clearly like a satire black comedy kind of thing. But I mean, Veronica andd's relationship is insane yeah like the way that it unfolds and like how close it is to like real life abusive horrible relationships like there were some points in the movie where because the guy who wrote this uh his name is daniel waters straight white man uh and he was pretty young when he wrote it. He's like in his 20s to the point where I'm like, does he fully realize like what he's doing? Like by there were certain lines that, you know, I was just like, oh, my God. Like it just is like a punch in the gut where Christian Slater is saying things like you'll be back and shit like that.

What else is there? Oh, where he basically says, like, you knew, or like, deep down what we were doing, which arguably could be true, but also could be an extremely high-level gaslighting move. Well, also what's upsetting is that you realize

that he's just been doing this for, like, his entire adolescence. He's just going to different high schools, and that's why he's like, you'll be back, because he's probably done that to other girls at other high schools right right and it's like it's oh there's another allusion to that too where when they're writing the first suicide note for heather he says something and she's like oh that's good have you done this before and right first the audience is like well i don't know and then we're like oh yeah he probably has well i think also a

really interesting scene in the movie that i forgot about is when you you meet his dad when she goes over to their house and you're like fuck straight up like his mom yeah like that that is a weird reveal yeah yeah oh yeah you find out think, the next scene where you meet him that he is, like, basically coming in his pants about the demolition of a hotel that he really wanted to be demolished. And he's like, we got those bitches. And then he, like, shows a VHS tape of the hotel falling over. And he's like, oh, this guy's also a crazy person. Which is an interesting movie move to be like listen christian slater comes by this honestly maybe give him a chance it's like no

he's still terrible but well but that's what makes the movie interesting is that you know objectively you're obviously like run away from this guy but it wouldn't be interesting if there were no intriguing qualities about him that make her keep going back. For sure. For instance, his dad is crazy and he is hot. Sometimes that is not. He also has a motorcycle. He does have a motorcycle.

I feel like that's pretty crucial. There's one line where he says, all I need is tequila in my sacks. I wrote that down because I was like, if someone said that to me, I'd be very wet. I would come immediately. Yep. Especially in high school. It would have really got me.quila in my socks come on he loves classical music he's a great guy that's weird yeah he's not like the other boys well and that's what like part of what divides her from her friends is that they're all like he's weird and she's like yeah that's cool you guys just don't get it and he's poised as being until he demonstrates these like very homicidal qualities part way through the

movie before then you're like yeah i can totally see why she likes him totally yeah there's a do you guys think that if she didn't meet jd she would have just rode out the rest of high school being friends with the others. I would imagine so. I don't know. I mean, I could see her getting, she seems pretty frustrated at the beginning of the movie, but maybe she would have found a less destructive. She seems like so willing to go with whoever's influence that if she met someone who is like not a psychopath that she connected with, maybe things would have turned out fine. But it seemed like she was kind of done with her friends at the beginning. I don't know.

She was in a vulnerable place where this guy showing up, it was really easy to adjust. That could have been anyone. The thing is, I feel like when you watch high school movies or you think about high school in general, you think about the groups. People who actually did things as opposed to like,

I really relate to Veronica cause I like didn't, I didn't do anything in high school. I just was like a person. So you're, that's the person that's super easy to just like latch on to different groups or people and make that your personality. I think that that's a really interesting thing. But I also, I do think that if she didn't meet thing that's but i i also i do think

that if she didn't meet jd she probably would have just stayed friends with them and been miserable until she graduated well if it's anything like the movie mean girls which is basically a 2000s version of this movie uh they're all juniors but when they become seniors they're like oh we're we're better than this now. I remember when Mean Girls came out. We're not plastic. I was like, you guys, this is just Heathers. You guys don't know. I thought it was very cool.

There's another movie that came out in between the two, Drawbreaker, that I feel like is quite similar to this. Did you see it? No. No. It's about a movie about, it's about a movie. How do you talk again? I'm apparently already a little drunk from this Hennessy. It's about this group of girlfriends who like pretend kidnap their friend and like put a jawbreaker in her mouth and like tape it so that she doesn't talk because they're like playing some trick on her or something.

But it's all very benign until she chokes on the jawbreaker and dies, and then we have to figure out what to do with her. Dude. I don't remember what happens after that, because it's been a very long time since I've seen it. Has anyone seen the Slenderman documentary yet? No. No. You gotta watch it.

We can't do a vectal test episode on it it because it really happened. But it's about these two 12-year-old girls who are like, we believe in Slenderman. And they murder their friend. Oh, I know the story. In the name of Slenderman, for all his faults, it absolutely passes the Bechdel test. Because there's a lot of police interviews where they're just talking about the Slenderman murders. Well, I guess Slenderman is a man yeah but is he a real man does it count if he's of made up mythological man i don't know but i didn't realize that young girls were horny for slender man and that's part of why they kill for him which i was like that's a whole nother level And also that all these murders tie back to a website called Creepypasta.

That's great. That I like. I didn't know that detail about it. I've seen the documentary twice. It's crazy. It's very good. Anyways. Oh, I wanted to talk about the guy who wrote the movie.

Because he weirdly has not done a lot since. Heathers was the first movie he ever wrote he's written some other stuff the the biggest it got was batman returns in 92 and that is the one of the tim burton ones uh yeah which is one which i would like to say is one degree removed from joel schumacher direct another bat. So that's our Schumacher check for this episode. I like how each episode we're piling on more and more more ritual things.

We gotta mention Titanic. We gotta mention Schumacher. Joel Schumacher. There's a lot of things. The last thing he wrote and directed was in 2014 and it was called Vampire Academy. So it's sort of a fall from grace for our pal Daniel Waters,

which is interesting because, like, Heathers is such a specific movie, and, like, the way it's written, it almost seems like he could have had, like, a John Hughes-y kind of career where it's like, oh, this is the guy that writes the... Like subversive teen dark comedy yeah yeah yeah and but uh you know and then the end game is vampire academy which you know maybe i shouldn't be talking maybe it's an amazing film it could be here we should watch it here's

the thing it most likely is not okay well there wasn't a point to that but except for i don't know i'm always like a little bit leery of a straight white guy writing a movie about young women um oh for sure just because it's so easy to conflate fact and fiction if you're returning to you know the horniest most horrible part of your life uh and then trying to put yourself in the mind of the people you wanted to have sex with just seems like a real challenge. But I don't know. How did you feel? I mean, I felt like he did. I don't know. Like this movie is hard. It's very hard to talk about in this context. It is. I am also very wary of any, like, straight man who thinks that they can. I mean, most of the main characters in this movie are women.

I'm raising my hands because I found out something crazy. Tell us. Daniel Waters wrote Heathers in 1988. His brother, Mark Waters, directed Mean Girls in 2004. Whoa. What the hell? that's so weird he also directed freaky friday so he's just a low hand head wild huh there you go guys i mean i don't feel like to me i don't think that the characters feel poorly written because they're written by a guy. Especially because it's like, I mean, they're not really like women.

They're children. Yeah. Well, they're also caricatures. Yeah. And it's not just the women that are caricatures. It's everyone in the movie is a caricature. Right. And I think that's why it ends up not really being a problem

because it's not like a deeply honest depiction of literally anyone. Right. Yeah. So I think he sort of literally anyone. Right. Yeah. So I think he sort of ends up being fine. Although I will say if you look up a picture of him now, crazy comb over. Oh no. Insane.

Like, who are you kidding? Oh, that's very unfortunate. It's very bad. Daniel, what happened? It's very long. Oh, geez. It's a very long, yeah. Not worth it.

Oh, boy. Oh, there's a bunch of really fun uh yelly thesis statement kind of dialogue lines and and towards the end of this movie is every other thing christian slater says is like okay we get it like you're yeah you're a fucking angry young man the society nods at any horror the american teenager thinks to bring upon itself like grow up and uh what else like because the school is society and like that how everything's a fucking metaphor for it it's very 10th grade english the way he interprets yes the world and and why i'm like this is not a fucking joyce carol oh short story you nutbag but But I love that it's him saying all this

shit to a girl who's just looking at him like he's a fucking idiot. Yeah. What are you talking about? Like if he was just saying that and we were just watching it, it would be like maybe not great. But when it's posed like that where Veronica's just looking at him like realizing

that he has been this idiot the whole time it's pretty powerful. What's the line? You know what I need? JD, cool guys like you out of my life or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just, I love that. I love the, like, yeah, you're a real cool guy, dude.

He knows about convenience stores, snacks. Yeah. That's, like, what gets Veronica to like him. She's like, you know, your convenience store is this beach. He's interesting because he's been a lot of places. On his motorcycle. He's a little riff-raff street rat.

I like it. How old is he? He could be college age. Thank you. No, yeah. I got convenience store food on my way over here, guys, when I was getting my Mike Hard Lemonade. And I stopped at Silver Lake 7-Eleven. They know me there.

And I ordered pizza so bad, they didn't make me pay for it. Because it looked disgusting, and it was disgusting. And he was like, on the house. Take it. Congratulations. You look like you really need it. I need it, yeah. He's like, you look hungry, my friend.

Going back to the relationship that Veronica and JD have, the way it starts is that he just crawls into her window, having met her, I think, once before. Like a prince from a fairy tale. I was like, okay,

I would have loved that. I would have loved that. I would have loved that. When you're a teenager, nothing is cooler than sneaking through a window. They do it in Gilmore Girls. I think I had a very different high school experience than most people. They do it in Gilmore Girls. My parents didn't dislike any of my high school boyfriends, so there was no window climbing. Also, we didn't have doors in my house for some reason, so window climbing would not have gone well.

Wait, you didn't have doors? There were no doors. I mean, there was a front door and a back door, but no one's bedrooms had doors. Oh, I see. Wait, even like doors to your bedrooms? There was like... No doors. Just open bathrooms.

No doors. Bathrooms, there were doors, but they were broken. You had to jam something up against them to get privacy. That is crazy. No doors. Bathrooms, there were doors, but they were broken. You had to jam something up against them to get privacy. That is crazy. I know. Especially because when my little brother did learn how to masturbate, he did not exercise any discretion. Oh. In spite of the fact that there were no doors.

So he would just be going at it and you'd walk past. That was a hard summer for me. It was my first summer back from college and my brother had hit puberty. Why were there no doors in your house? There were no doors. I don't know. I don't. There's to this day, there's no doors.

Wow. There was no. I mean, my parents weren't fucking. So there were no doors. I don't know. I'm baffled. I don't know if anyone's ever had sex in my house. I mean, I started to like pause to think about it i'm like why would i know

the answer to this like actually i've had sex in my house jamie i've gone to i met your mom i was like hey wait what's her name again jill i was like hey jill do you mind if i come over and hang out i didn't have sex with your mom but i brought someone else over. Yeah, it's like so someone. And she did walk in on this because there are no doors. Well, I got walked in on once in my house. My brother almost caught me like trying to lose my virginity. I don't know. And obviously we had to stop. And then he like threw up.

He was so upset. I was just trying to lose my baby car. No more Remington parties for you. No, my brother was like, I just wanted a root beer, and then he threw up on the floor. Oh, jeez. I know. It's like, that's a little dramatic. Jamie, this isn't insane.

I need to talk to your parents about why there are no doors to bedrooms or anything. We were in my living room because it didn't matter. There were no doors. You're trying to lose your virginity anywhere and you're at equal risk. Anyway, so he crawls through a door and they play strip croquet. I don't know why croquet is such, again, it's probably another like, maybe it's just a motif or maybe it's a metaphor. Don't they play croquet in Clueless? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why.

That's just a thing that popular girls did. Seems to exist in a very specific period of movies. Yeah, I certainly didn't relate to the croquet aspect. But it seemed to go with their jackets. It totally worked with their outfits, for sure. They did color coordinate. That was what most of their decisions were based on

is whatever went with their outfits. Alright, what else do we say about this? That was what most of their decisions were based on, is whatever went with their outfits. Yeah. All right, what else do we say about this? He goes into the room. You never finish your thought about him going into the room. I don't even know if I have anything else to say about it. Okay. Just that he, it was just jarring to me that he's introduced as this cool, subversive guy

who's going to take her out of this clique that she's in, and she doesn't have to be with these horrible heathers anymore and then that's not where the story goes at all he helps mart helps her murder people that she doesn't like i do like that the weird rapey jock guys um get murdered because i feel like they had it coming i like that too i mean we got to talk about i love my dead gay son that's a great line how beautiful that the dad accepts him yeah in depth that was a fun one i like the nerd who spits out milk in almost every scene that he's in do you remember that guy i don't remember that but it's fun to hear there's one there's

you see it once whenever like the main heather the Heather, I'm going to call her the red. I don't know their last names. Shannon. That's Shannon Doherty. No, that's... That's the red Heather. No, not the red-headed Heather. The one who wears red.

The red-wearing. Alpha, the one that dies. Yes. Is she the one who left all her swatches? Yes. She wouldn't have done that. She looks at this nerd guy and then they make eye contact and he spits out all this milk and then it happens again later on i forget what prompts in that time

but he um just spews milk everywhere was anyone else like really surprised in the first scene christian slater's in where you like fall in love with him in a very short amount of time and then he has a gun yeah you're just're just like, whoa, this guy. He just said, like, all I need is tequila in my sacks. I'm like, I'm ready to marry him. And then he pulls out a gun. And shoots two people, presumably dead, until the next scene when they're like, oh, he used blanks. And that's why she's always like, oh, he probably always used blanks.

Yeah, I guess. I get it. I get it i get it i think there's just too many moments like that where my my disbelief cannot be suspended i think that's another problem why i just like there are things about this movie i like but i can't like it as a whole because of those few reasons the characters the characters and then i can't there's so many things I can't suspend my disbelief for and yeah it's a satire it's a dark comedy it's not meant to be taken

so seriously but I still don't enjoy watching it I think it's also tough if you are watching it for the first time now yes I am a grown ass woman it's one of those things that like she says I think there are certain things that like she says taking a swig of Hennessy I think there are

certain things that you grow up with that you hesitate to always fully recommend to people because you're like well I have a very specific like I think about like I loved I also loved the movie Ghost World and so I always loved that movie yeah but I don't know if I would be like you have to see Ghost World where even though I it. It's like how I, you know, I love Soup Plantation, but I don't expect anyone else to. It's just because I grew up with it, you know? Well, this movie is such like a cult. But also I think Heather's is good.

Yeah. But I think it's sort of like, okay, it's like, I don't really feel affected when I watch Monty Python, because I never was like a teenage boy who watched it. See, I'm right. I'll never feel anything. I've got a big old hard-on for Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Yeah, I just never watched it growing up so I don't feel anything for it now. I can see objectively that this is of value but I don't connect to it. I feel that way about Pee-wee's Playhouse in that I'm like, I'm not going to make you watch Pee-wee's Playhouse but you should watch it.

I tried to watch i got 30 seconds into it and had to shut it off his voice is so grating okay are we about to not be friends anymore you just you just couldn't be more wrong, but it's fine. You're my friend and I accept it. I mean, yeah, we all have movies that we like. I mean, I like the movie Stomp the Yard. Is it a good movie? No. I love the movie Stomp the Yard. Do I love it? But there are movies that, like, I'm not mad at you for not liking Heathers.

There are movies that I'd be like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Sure. Yeah, I guess with Heathers it depends on, like, what point fuck is wrong with you? Sure. Yeah, I guess with others it depends on what point in your life it arrived to you. I also think when I took to the internet and most people were slaughtering me, a lot of people were like, okay, I can

see it. The time that it came out, it was sort of the first movie of its kind. There hadn't really been a dark teen comedy like that. Are there others that you can point to afterwards? That's something I was thinking about

how you said that he didn't really make anything else afterwards. I wonder if people were not interested in more. Well, I think, like we said, kind of alluded to before, like Mean Girls and Jawbreakers were influenced by Heathers, I imagine. I mean, Mean Girls is like, in so many ways, a copy kind of alluded to before like mean girls and jawbreakers were influenced by heathers i am i imagine i mean mean girls is like in so many ways a copy of heathers yeah yeah just okay wait i'm

looking for this status you made about heathers because i would really okay can some this is you i'm sorry i was about to say can someone explain the movie heathers to me why do people like it is there an extended metaphor that i'm missing there's okay that's probably how people read it here's how i meant it that's how i interpreted it i think that's how everyone interpreted i did not like or comment it makes sense i'm usually like very mean and snarky on my facebook posts but the way I actually intended it was hey guys hey friends can so you meant it like so sorry to bother you while you're online there's two but why do people like it is there an extended metaphor I'm missing exactly I would love

but that's not how people are they read can someone explain them that's honestly tell me how many wows it got oh how many just one just the one one wow 18 or 19 likes which honestly some people well some people were on board with you slater sucks uh said one person some one person said the musical is fun didn't know there was a musical oh there's one really probably didn't need to be. There was no need to write multiple paragraphs about this movie, I will say. Someone said you're wrong and you're being awful about it. Oh, my God. Was their name Heather?

No, it was a man. It was a Boston comic. Oh, well, I guarantee I could beat him up and kill him using only my hands. And make it look like a suicide. Exactly. False circle, baby. I don't know. Lots of people

seem to... people say, it's funny. It is funny. I laughed at moments there. Interesting point. Three likes. It's funny. It's funny. There's good dialogue. Is it sloppily written? Yeah. Yeah, it is.

I would have taken another pass at this screenplay. That's just me. Oh, can I read something else you wrote? Yeah. But like in the way I interpreted it? Sure. Okay. So a very nice straight white man who we both know, a great guy he wrote out a very measured explanation of why

he felt people liked heather and then you said i mainly don't like it because for me there isn't a single likable or redeemable a redeemable character in the whole movie like maybe that's the point and it's like caitlin calm down. Also, Martha. This comment has no likes. Yeah, people really did not care for me. You keep going. I don't like most modern comedies. I do appreciate that this movie is dark and more subversive than most cookie-cutter modern. This is fun.

I do sound like a fucking asshole. If you read anyone's Facebook comment that way it would be fun i'm gonna start doing that just to keep myself honest about my thoughts and feelings yeah read it in that voice before you post it something i've had fun doing is reading bible verses really sarcastically like they're super still. Like, reading psalms, like, um. If you start any psalm with um, actually, it takes on a whole new meaning. Cool. Well. Do you guys think, ultimately, that it does pass the Bechelt Act? Oh, it definitely passes.

Almost right away. Yeah. The first scene with all the heathers, it passes. Yeah. It passes, especially the first, like, in the first act, especially, when they're all still hanging out a lot before people start dying. There's a bunch of scenes where it passes. They're talking. There's some where they're talking, that women are talking, but it is about JD or someone.

But yeah, they talk about all kinds of things. They talk about bulimia. They talk about the lunchtime poll. Which is a classic. I did like the lunchtime poll. I remember seeing that in high school and being like, we should do that. That seems fun. The question that they pose, though, is so stupid.

It's infuriating. Oh, wait, I wrote it down. Because I was like, well, that's a pretty well thought out question for someone so young. You inherit a million dollars two days before the aliens blow the world up. What do you do? I think that I summarized it. So dumb. I mean, what would you do?

What would you do? Oh, wait. I wrote down. Have everyone answer that question. Good call. Wait, the concept is that you win the money, but you know? You know the world's going to end and you have the money. So, Caitlin, I'll pose it to you first because I just read all your Facebook statuses very rudely.

You inherit a million dollars two days before aliens blow the world up and you know that the world's going to blow up in two days. What do you do with it? First of all, it's five million dollars. Is it? Sorry to be a heinous bitch about it. I'm sorry. I was in a bus station. What is her damage? Oh my god. It's $5 million. Is it? Sorry to be a heinous bitch about it. I was in a bus station.

What is her damage? Oh my God. Fuck me gently with a chainsaw. That's what it is. I guess with only two days to live, I don't know. I would just kill myself knowing that things would be. You wouldn't try to save everyone from the aliens? Oh, that hadn't even occurred to me. Wow, I'm such a good person.

I guess if with $5 million, that was somehow enough resources to stop the aliens, sure, I would do that. But if certain death is coming, I would just get it over with right away. Or maybe I'd be like, hey, does anyone want to commit a murder? And then you can frame it as my suicide if you want. Paige, what would you do? I don't know. I mean, what can you really

do of value? Because it's like, you want to say you'd give it to charity or whatever, but it's like charity can't do anything with it in two days. Are you going to feed the hungry? They're just going to die anyway. I guess you try and maybe give people some sense of joy before they die that's nice but like how do you do that like that's why it's such a dumb high schooler what would you do jamie i would uh invest

it all and then be like guys we should really invest in these companies as a joke. Nice. Because I would know what they don't know. I think it's her former friend, Betty Finn. Poor Betty Finn. I feel so bad for her. Betty Finn is like the character in Freaks and Geeks, who's her old friend. Like, I really, really, man. I've been on both sides of that. Yeah, same.

Yeah. I mean, I guess we all have. Yeah. Man. People grow out of each other. It's sad. It's gross. And that's, like, high school, I feel like, guess we all have. Yeah. Man. People grow out of each other. It's sad. It's gross. And that's, like, high school, I feel like, is the primary time for that.

Why can't we just cling together forever, regardless of whether we like each other or not? You can only do that if you're in band. I don't understand. Yeah, that's true. Oh, we've got to bring up your oboe. That's another thing that we have to talk about every episode. I was talking to one of my band friends today. Sent her a letter in the mail. Said, you still play the clarinet? a joke i know she doesn't that's nice though you've reached out yeah can i read a psalm yes oh but uh the reason i brought up betty finn is that um the answer she gives is to just like spend the money on throwing a big like bash right before

everyone dies and that's probably the best way to do it. I mean, if you're all gonna die, just have fun. There was nothing, and maybe this is reductive of me, but I was like, there was nothing that looked wrong with her. She seemed like a

normal, I don't know. Yeah. She even knows how to play croquet. Definitely nothing wrong with her. Yeah, she's just a normal i don't know yeah sad she even knows how to play croquet definitely nothing wrong with her yeah she just is like a normal gal yeah she just isn't like cool in the right way right yeah there there's just something missing poor betty well she lived but also she's fine yeah ultimately not poor betty she probably grew up to be you know she has a phd now yeah she didn't have any crazy traumatic experiences because she wasn't trying to be cool she's a PhD now yeah she didn't have any crazy traumatic experiences because she wasn't

trying to be cool she's a woman in STEM now and it's wild because we need more of those yeah we do okay I just wanted to are we you're reading a psalm is that how you say it a psalm yeah I've never been to church it's actually a poem no I'm sorry the S is silent

are we is there anything else we need to talk about before i read a psalm maybe this will be a fun new way to close the show yeah let's all hold hands and close our eyes please not ever again but this time i permit you okay uh just ask if we all uh calm down a little bit impossible but okay and uh. And we're going to pray really quick. Okay. So. The Lord is my shepherd. He leads me in the paths of righteousness.

I will fear no evil. I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. That's great. In Jesus' name we pray. Thank you so much. That was wonderful. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah. Do we need to cover anything else? We concluded that it does pass the Bechdel test a bunch of different times. For sure, yeah. So yay on that. But it's just a confusing movie in general to analyze it's just it's a tricky one well it's i like it i mean because it's like you know it portrays these girls realistically but it's not in a nice way so that's tough like obviously ideally you

want something that portrays women behaving maturely and cool i think it but portrays certain aspects of certain people realistically, but the characters still are so... They're pretty one-dimensional. There's definitely an uncanny valley of everyone's bad traits, regardless of gender,

come out way faster and way in a more obvious way than it would in real life. I don't know. It's not really than it would in real life. It's not really a gender issue in this movie. It's just really terrible. High schoolers are dumb. I think we can all agree on that.

They suck. Sorry if we have any high school fans. Shout out to high schoolers. If you're listening to this, then you are cool. Stay cool, guys. What the fuck is up? DM us. You got a lot to look forward to. You got a lot of life to live, my friends.

Yeah, tweet at us. Tweet! Anyway. Tweet and fave. Thank you, high schoolers. Thanks. So, once again, Paige, thanks for being here. Yeah, thank you for coming. Oh, thanks for having me. I love talking about Heathers.

We conclude each episode by rating the movie in the context of its portrayal of the women in it. Boy, do we. Do we. We do. This is a hard one. It's a really hard one. And my judgment is going to be clouded because I just don't really like this movie. And because you've had some Hennessy.

And, yeah. Well, not that much. had some Hennessy. And, yeah. Well, not that much. I finished my mics hard. Oh, good. Yeah. Well, thank you. I'm going to give it two and a half stars. And here's why. Two and a half what? Oh, my God. I'm drunk on Hennessy. Drunk on the Henny.

Oh, it's a mid-2000s rap song. Two and a half stars. That's when Hennessy. Drunk on the Henny. Oh, it's a mid-2000s rap song. It's not stars. It's nipples. That's when Hennessy raps were at the top. We rate it on a scale of zero to five nipples. I'm so sorry, everyone. And then we describe the nipples, yeah. Oh, okay.

Two and a half because I like that it's like a movie about women and women are the driving force, largely, but I just don't like any of them. But so I'm just I feel very conflicted. I don't know. Maybe I'll change my mind later. But right now it's two and a half nipples. Two of them belong to I think his name is Ram. One of the football jocks. Very, very, very small, tiny nipples. Great name for a high school jock

and then the other one belongs to christian slater the other half nipple is is christian slaters nice and it's smooth and it's nice nice wow okay um i guess it is it is tough to rate because they are children, not really like women. But so I guess I would, even though I love this movie, I would probably give it like three nipples. But they're like, it's like when they're like brown, like nice nipples. Good. Yeah. I give it three nipples and one psalm. Okay.

Can I say what the psalm is? You can. I just want to do another. Okay. My soul waits for God alone. He alone is my rock and my salvation. Trust in him at all times, O people. Power and love belong to God.

In Jesus we pray. I give it three nipples. They all belong to the dad who's proud of his gay son. Oh, I want mine to belong to the dad who says I don't patronize bunny rabbits. Oh, we forgot about that dad. Remember that? That's Veronica's dad. Veronica's parents we did not talk about. What is going on with us?

They are whiffs. They have no personality. I like when. Just a blank slate. When her mom thinks that Veronica has committed suicide and she walks in, the first thing she says is, I wish I'd let you get that job at the mall. And I'm just like, really? This is how you're reacting to this? That's the other thing.

No one reacts in a way that I can believe at all. No one is devastated by or feeling guilt about having committed these murders. It's just insane to me. Yeah, it's weird that it's elevated to like, oh, the Heathers are everything, but then one of them dies and no one cares. But that's the point. Yeah, in a way. Everyone's just like, who's going to be the new one? Right.

She wasn't important. That status was important. Yeah. In a way. Everyone's just like, who's going to be the new one? Right. She wasn't important. That status was important. Yeah. Whoa. Whoa. Maybe that's why they're all named Heather. Whoa. It's like, it doesn't really matter who you are as an individual.

It just matters that you are a Heather. Deep. I love it. I'm very smart. I love it. I'm sweating. It's so hot. It's really warm in here. I'm very smart. I love it. I'm sweating. It's so hot.

It's really warm in here. I'm sweating too, yeah. Well, I think that it's time to go. I don't know. You made it sound like we were about to sing a song. Like a psalm? Not a psalm. I think we've done enough psalms for today.

Unless you'd like another, I've got more let's save it for next time I think I'll let another one happen really? hey Paige, is there anything you want to plug or where can people find you on the internet? you can follow me on twitter

at Paige Weldon and you can visit my website thehiggsweldon.com we have fun comedy articles and stuff and we have a show at the Improv Lab February 20th at 10pm And you can visit my website, thehiggsbelden.com. We have fun comedy articles and stuff. And we have a show at the Improv Lab February 20th at 10 p.m. Yeah. Super.

Love it. You can follow us at Bechtelcast on Twitter. You can write to us via email. Has anyone ever done that? Not yet. So I really encourage people to email us at thebechtelcast at gmail.com. Just about anything. About anything. Anything you want.

And then we also have a Facebook. Yeah, we do. You can check that out and like it. So there you go. All right, guys, keep reading that Bible and keep doing the right thing. Yeah. See ya. Bye.

Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, Jake Storielli here from John Boy Media.

I want to tell you about my podcast, Wake and Jake. I've been a sports nut my whole life and there's nothing I love more than talking about it. If you're a sports fan, Wake and Jake is the place for you. Covering all the hot topics from the sports world. A lot of baseball, a lot of postseason coverage, mock drafts, awards, guest interviews, all of it.

New episodes every Monday and Wednesday. Come watch along on the Wake and Jake YouTube channel or listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. Amy Robach here along with TJ Holmes. And we have a very exciting announcement to make to all of you. We are now going to be coming to you Monday through Friday for a new part of our Amy and TJ franchise, if you will. The Morning Run.

We're going to help listeners navigate the busy news cycle and the historic political season that the country is facing. And we're going to do this now each and every day. Listen to Morning Run on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.