The Bechdel Cast - Hidden Figures with Nina Daniels

Episode Date: April 13, 2017

Jamie and Caitlin invite guest Nina Daniels to chat about Hidden Figures. Space! The final frontier! These are the voyages of the women that history often overlooks!(This episode contains spoilers)Follow @ninadaniels on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's so much beauty in Mexican culture, like mariachis, delicious cuisine, and even lucha libre. Join us for the new podcast, Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts.

I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. What is wrong with me? A show about the ways that mental illness is shaped by not just biology, swaps of different meds, but by culture and society. By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane, what we can do about it, and why we should care. Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them.

Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast start changing it with the bechdel cast hi and welcome to the bechdel cast i'm caitlin i'm jamie and we're here to talk about movies and how they portray women that was great yeah that was like the most succinct i've ever done it i know it used to take us five minutes man we are growing so much we're growing as people how's your day my day has been uh okay oh so i went out for a jog i jog and i saw i ran past a guy who was chugging a box of frenzy on the sidewalk and i was like that's unusual and then i ran between him and a car and there was someone in the car filming him.

So I was like, that makes more sense. He's doing it for like a bit. Someone's filming him. I get it. But like for a split second, I was like, why is this guy just chugging a box of Franzia on the sidewalk in Los Feliz? Do you think it was real? Like a real Franzia? I think it would be more work to chug.

Yeah. I mean, you'd have to empty out the bag fill it with what water why do that why why not just chug frenzy i burned myself out on that and i did that a couple times in college and now i just associate it with the smell of the basement apartment i used to live in can't do it Yeah. Not that it's great wine to begin with. No. My day was bad. I'm sorry to hear that. That's okay. Let's start the episode. Okay, let's do that.

We are here with a wonderful guest. She is a comedian. She is a cellist. True story. She also has a show here at Nerd Melt in Los Angeles, California. Nina Daniels. Yay! Hi! Bye-bye!

Thank you for having me, guys. Thanks for being here. You're welcome. And that's the end of the episode. Bye! We did it! We're talking about a movie called Hidden Figures. I've heard of it. Talk to us about, when did you see this movie?

I mean, it came out, you know, not long ago. A few months ago. I actually saw it, no, I saw it through SAG Awards in my living room on my laptop. How fancy. Yeah, because when you're in SAG, they give you screeners.

So that was one of the screeners that I watched and completely fell in love with this movie. So good. Yeah. I saw it in the theater by myself.

I wish I had seen it in the theater. Yeah, it was great. So I go to the movies by myself often and who knows why. I'll talk to you about it with my therapist. It's a nice experience.

It is. No, it's very therapeutic for me to go to the movies by myself. But here's the thing. I don't let myself get emotional in public. And it's another thing I need to talk to my therapist about. Do I even have a therapist? No, I don't.

I should make an appointment. But I have a really hard time. I can't let people see me cry. And this movie made me so emotional. I was on the verge of tears the entire time because i'm just like oh these women they're being mistreated and all this injustice they're uplifting each other and and i was like just nearly crying the entire time and i was like i can't but i can't let anyone see me cry i couldn't be you literally a commercial makes me

cry oh yeah i'll be like and because i love you. I'm like, oh, that's so sweet. I cry all. Everybody laughs at me at movies because they just, they see something and everybody just looks at me to see if tears are coming down. Yeah. No, I'm a, I'm very, I repress my emotions and it's not healthy. I don't. But that's good.

Yeah. I let it all hang. I should repress mine maybe a little bit more. It interferes with your life. Really? Well, I mean, sometimes it's like, man, I got to take a walk sometimes just to like walk off my emotions and then return to, I don't know. Today my therapist was like, I think you should spend the weekend inside and wear beta blocker sunglasses. Anyways, let's talk about the movie.

So yeah, I saw it in the theater the first time. I really loved it. I thought it was great. Jamie, when did you see it? I saw it last week and I really, really liked it. It was one of the movies that I wanted to see over the holidays and wasn't able to because my mom

wanted to see the Jackieie o movie which was not so great i passed on that one i know well good call it was not it was a stinker uh but i still feel ill from it right it's just oh it was a it a drag. But that's the Kennedy assassination for you. This movie made me feel so good and was the sort of movie that I felt good about days after watching it. Not as good as it made me feel. Oh, yeah. For sure. Talk about that.

I mean, well, first of all, I did want to see it in the movie theater, but I was so excited about it that I couldn't even wait because I had to screen her. I'm like, oh, I have to see this like right now. For many reasons. One, which a lot of people probably wouldn't know, but all three women are or were some of the past members of the same sorority that I met. Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated. All three. So that was like really enlightening Sorority Incorporated, all three. So that was like really enlightening. It was like, oh my goodness.

I mean, because quick history lesson, but you know, in a African-American sorority, we don't just pledge or participate in undergrad. It's like that movie, The Firm, once you get in, you can't get out. Like literally, and you become more active once you get to, once you graduate. Oh, so it's like a lifelong. You join what's called grad chapter, yeah. Or you're inactive like me

and should be joining grad chapter. Just pay your dues and you're just like a general member. But yeah, so it was like, I was really proud. I was a really proud

sister of Alpha Kappa Alpha watching them like, of course they were all sorors. It made me very proud. Very nice. That's awesome. And a little cocky. Yeah.

You know, that made me excited. And it also made me excited as, you know, an African-American woman to see just three brilliant women. And I thought the director did such a great job of showing their brilliance and also showing what they had to deal with, but not like dumbing them down or not making it some sappy, like, woe is me story. It's a lot of times,

you know, some of these movies are like, Oh, the poor black person had to struggle through. It was like, these women were so confident. And so like in the car, the car scene,

when the car broke down and they were like, well, you could walk or sit in the back of the bus. They were like, I don't think so. I was like, that's me right there. I don't think so. That was like a prime. And like also the show, the pride and the almost part of the arrogance of like, no, we're not doing that. Yeah. And that was 1961.

Uh-huh. 1961. That was very impressive. That scene ends with them fixing the car and then the, or the, the cop pulls up and you're like, fuck this fucking cop. What's he going to do? Yeah. In advance.

And then, um. Part of the storyline. Right. Yeah. But then he, they talked to him. They have to convince him that they're like, yes, we work at NASA. We do important things. And he's just like, I didn't know there were women.

Because you knew that's not what he was going to say. I didn't know it was brilliant. But then he offers to escort them the rest of the way. And I wrote down what Mary says. Yeah. Yeah. Because she's like, three Negro women are chasing a white police officer down a highway in Hampton, Virginia in 1961. Ladies, this is a God-ordained miracle.

This is a God-ordained miracle. I love that. I wrote that down as well. Caitlin, do you want to do the recap? The recap. Yeah. The Caitlin recap. Oh, man. The story is about three black women, Catherine Goebel, who becomes Catherine Johnson, Dorothy Vaughn, and Mary Jackson.

The story is based on real-life events. These were real women. They were all employed by NASA. This is a movie set in 1961. We're in the middle of the space race with the Russians. You know, the US is trying to pull ahead. The Russians get a man in space first. Everyone's freaking out. Katherine Goebel did a lot of the analytic geometry to calculate the trajectories and the landing and takeoff for the rockets. Meanwhile, Mary Jackson is, she wants to be an engineer,

but she can't because she doesn't have quite the right qualifications or she has the right qualifications. But they're like finding ways to suppress her ability to actually be an engineer because she's a woman. So she has to like petition and get a court date and all this stuff. And so she can take classes to get the qualifications. Long story short, she finally gets there. Yay. She becomes an engineer. But she's working in this engineering department.

They're trying to figure out how to make it so that the spacecraft that they're trying to launch into space is ready for the astronauts to actually be there. And that it's safe so they don't all die in space. And then the third main character, Dorothy Vaughn, she's essentially a supervisor, but they won't give her the title or the pay. And she's supervising a group of like 20 other black women who are all computers and doing other, you know, important math and analytics and stuff like that for NASA. And it's basically just, it takes place over the course of a few months, and they're all just trying to do the work that needs to be done to get people in space. Yay! The end!

I think it's, you know, cool to point out that, you know, they were called computers because there were no computers yet. IBM, they were just waiting to get their IBM. Yeah. Other characters who are important, Catherine's boss played by Kevin Costner. This is the first time I have not hated him in a movie, so good job. I like him. I am, yeah. Kevin Costner.

I like him. Kevin Kline. Yeah, yeah. Kevin Kline has always been great. Kevin Costner. Kevin Spacey. Kevin Spacey, yeah. Man, more Kevins, please.

Kevin Hart. So he's her boss. Then there's Jim Parsons. I'm sure you're good. So he's her boss. Then there's Jim Parsons. I forget his character's name. Oh, I love his character's name. It's Paul. Paul Staffan, I think. Yeah.

I love Jim Parsons. He looks like a little alien all the time. He's just this little alien looking guy. Oh, his character, though, so despicable. Yes. He is so good at this movie. Yeah. He's a bad alien in this movie.

Kristen Dunst plays a woman I don't entirely know what her job is. Mrs. Mitchell. She's like a coordinator. Mrs. Mitchell.

So it's the cast of main characters. Yeah. Alright, the first thing I want to say about this movie is it calls attention

to the fact that one of the most significant historic and scientific feats of the 20th century and also like i don't know all of history which was putting a man into space was made possible by a group of black women who you've probably never heard about until now because i didn't

learn this stuff in history class and that's what i mean obviously the title of the movie suggests that these are hidden figures because we don't like they don't teach us this like we didn't learn about this i didn't i think that it kind of like that extends to the movie universe too because they're think about how many fucking space movies there are and every time you cut to the control room there's a white guy in there there's you know like there's barely any women at all not to mention a person of color and so it's like i don't know i was thinking a lot about that during the movie too just like you know like armageddon apollo 11 and uh one of the characters i forget and sorry to mansplain that too um but who katherine is later in involved with and like you would never see that

reflected i knew about katherine johnson you did yeah and as a matter of fact i had had actually forgotten my dad was like you wrote a paper on her i was like oh good you know but i was really young but i definitely think seeing the movie definitely gave me it brought awareness to yeah in a very different way i mean my parents are great because we learned about a lot of um african-american people who were outstanding and amazing and changed history that were not just Martin Luther King I love him but you know or I would say Benjamin Bannon Carly nobody knows who he I'm like um Paul Robeson I mean, there's a lot of people that when I was a kid, my parents, we would get a list of names to write a paper. And I did not go

to school normally with many other African Americans, especially not teachers. So it would be like me in the class. And it would be all these historical figures, but none of them would be black. And my parents would be like, they would cross it out, and they'd be like, you're doing a paper on this person. So I would bring it back to school. That's awesome. That's amazing. And I'd be like, this is what I'm doing it on. And the teacher, you could tell the teacher would look like,

I did not assign that to you, but I'm definitely not going to challenge you on this. Yeah. Because good luck challenging my mother. Good luck with that. You would lose that battle hardcore yeah i mean i i grew up in rural western pennsylvania i grew up in rural long island yeah i mean man that's the thing like i like i mean i didn't have parents to be like you're gonna do this paper on an african-american person instead like i don't think we talked about in

history class like any notable figures in history who were black, except maybe Harriet Tubman. I mean, and not many women either. I mean, like I knew about Betsy Ross because she made a flag or something. But like, other than that, it was just a bunch of white dudes. My favorite woman growing up was Shirley Chisholm. She went for president. First black woman. Oh, yeah. She was part of the women's suffrage movement like she's no joke man she was like i remember like

being a kid and be like i want to be like her she was so best thing i mean like we were lucky we were very fortunate we're exposed to so many people yeah so it was really interesting to um see and i mean i think what i love most about hidden figures as well is that it also showed the softness of african-american women meaning like they weren't like and and i say it's like i love being strong and in the um the portrayal of strong african and black women but like these women were known for their brains and they didn't have to put anything on it. They were just being who they are. And that's what made them up as their intelligence.

And I felt like they led by their intelligence. And that to me was like such a refreshing thing to see. Yeah, I love that. just shows how many hurdles these women had to jump over in like every part of their job and outside of their job just to like prove that they're capable. They're like, yeah, we are. Yeah, we can do this. And then everyone's just like, yeah, exactly. And everyone's just like, I don't know about that. But it's also prove yourself. It's also a testament to when someone says cream always rises to the top.

Literally, they needed them because no one could do it. Yeah. Like no one else could do it. You know, so it's almost like if you can make yourself so useful that nobody else could do it. And it was interesting, like also, too, about the engineering with Mary and that character even, you know, saying, you know, I'm Jewish and I came here from. But the thing is, like, you're still a man from... But the thing is, you're still a man. Yeah. And you're still a white man in America.

So it was really interesting to see him have that. Because her obstacle wasn't just being a woman. Where she needed to take the courses, they didn't allow African-Americans. Right, it's a segregated school. So that was really... I mean, being a woman was part of it. But second layer of it is they didn't allow women of color. Right.

Yeah, exactly. Or people of color for that matter. Hashtag intersectionality. She had to go to court to take a class at like, I think it was like a high school. She had to go take it at a night class. Yeah. Which was like, wow. Yeah.

There's so many steps she had to go through just to be able to get the credentials she needed to do the job that she was already qualified to do. My mom would have totally done that. No, for real. My mom would have been like, excuse me. Here we go. And it was it was nice to see. I mean, it wasn't like a main focal point, but it was nice to see their their home lives as well. Yes. And that the other roles, because I feel like it would have been easy to just keep this in the workplace. And it would have still been powerful if it was just in the workplace. But it was nice to see not just the professional hurdles, but trying to like maintain a life for their kids and all this stuff, because they still have all the pressures associated with motherhood. Right? Yeah. All three of those women had young children. Yeah. And Catherine was a

single mother, at least she started out that way she ends up marrying Jim Johnson I love that relationship yeah I love like you know they showed such a respectful like black love uh-huh which I loved I was like oh this is so sweet when he like apologized to her for doubting her when they first met right like all right well a lot of men make that mistake. Yeah. Yeah, because what is, the first thing he said, because he's like,

oh, I understand you work at NASA. And she's like, yeah, we do all the, you know, the calculations. And he's just like, oh, they let women do, and then he like stops talking. He's like, oh man,

I fucked up real bad. And she's like, I'm going to walk away and you should shut up. And then the next time he's like i owe you an apology she's like yeah i'm waiting for it it also showed the complications in mary's marriage right which i loved as well the juxtaposition of that relationship versus that and also mary not like she didn't play down or come down for her husband even though he had all these like issues

and concerns she was just like yeah no i'm gangster i'm doing this like you shouldn't believe you should not you know which is i'm such an optimist it's so hard for me to like look at the the glass is never half empty to me it's always half full so i was like go mary yeah you can do this well yeah just like just seeing these three main characters who pretty much at almost every point in the movie just refused to be bulldozed by literally the entire world that's trying to bulldoze them. And, you know, like you were saying, it just like making themselves so like incredibly intelligent and useful that you can't didn't like they couldn't have done it without them. And also the intelligence wasn't it wasn't forced. it was like quiet intelligent that's what i love yeah it just like came across very organically which is how we really are they're doing the job yeah they're just i wanted to talk a little bit more about that scene it's one of the opening scenes where they're broke down

on the side of the road and dorothy is like fixing the car and i mentioned in an earlier episode of this podcast where i'm like oh i hate that trope or like to show a woman to show that she's not just like any other woman she's good at fixing cars and like it's an annoying trope but like that's not what happened in this movie like they broke down i believe that that character knew how to fix absolutely and it's something like in transformers like you see megan fox leaning over the hood of a car and basically like having sex with a car male gaze all over the place like lingering up and down was she supposed to be fixing it yeah but like she was i thought she was making love to it like literally all i thought it was, I didn't even realize that she was actually supposed to be fixing that car.

Wait, yeah, I was like, what was she doing next to that car? I was like, this is the part in the movie when they want to sell sex. Yeah, exactly. And then in this movie, Dorothy's splayed out, lying on the ground, under the car. How you actually fix cars. It wasn't sexy. It was just like yep she just is trying to figure out what the problem is and in context of the the movie like that made total

sense yeah it didn't feel tropey at all no no no and actually and you saying it i didn't even i didn't even think about it until right now you know you bring it up it was just like a normal thing that happened you're like yep this checks out yeah and that was that wasn't i feel like the reason people usually do that trope is because the like whatever whoever the female character is is like portrayed as like so unrealistically that they're like but wait she's grounded and and these women are portrayed realistically for the duration of the movie so it's like cool yeah they can fix cars they're so much cooler than me. Part of what made me love this movie even more was there was a

few campaigns around the time when it was actually in theaters where a lot of people were donating to send classes of kids to go see this movie. And it's amazing that as many classes as did got to see it in the theater

but just thinking about like years down the line this will be like watched in history classes and there's not a lot of movies like it and it's that to me was like so exciting of like imagine being whatever seven or eight years old and and seeing this movie it would be yeah i think a couple of the actors was like i think taraji p henson i think also maybe octavia spencer like bought out theaters oh yeah i didn't know that yeah i believe they bought out theaters so that people can just go in and see it yeah oh man that's wonderful yeah so like this movie i don't know there's not a lot of movies you see where you're like oh this is gonna have a serious legacy and impact far beyond the time it's actually in theaters um yeah and i like the um i felt like the accurate portrayal of paul and katherine and paul's jim

parson's character yeah oh yeah i like the fact that he just stayed in his character the whole, like, to the end. He was not going to give up being an asshole at all. And I loved it. I'm like, was it like a romantic ending with that dude? Yeah. It was like, great. Yeah. It was great.

He's like, you're racist and you hate women and you're going to stay that way. Right. Because in 1961, that would have been what happened right but you also saw you know what the you know what's so funny this movie was a great example of nobody wanting to be at the bottom and what i mean by that is like so the men treated the women bad like mrs mitchell and she treated the black women bad because somebody had to it just like trickled down like if they're gonna treat me poorly what i'm gonna treat like nobody wants to be the bottom and she was another one who was just terrible and even when she i guess did a good thing it wasn't even good she was she was just like nah yeah no she

like there's that scene where she's in the bathroom didn't change her idea about african-americans at all yeah there's that scene that scene when she's in the restroom with Dorothy and after they had desegregated the bathroom when Mrs. Mitchell's like, you know, despite what you think, I don't have anything against you. And she's like, yeah, I'm sure you believe that.

I'm sure that's what you think. But you do. And it's so funny because when the real Catherine said that never happened, she was like, hell no, I went to the bathroom right there oh she's like who would have time for that well they certainly had to like amp up the drama to make it like a cinematic experience i'm sure like i'm sure also she doesn't didn't need to be like called in at the last moment because he's about to launch into space and they didn't she wasn't allowed in the room oh really no she was not actually allowed in the room oh really no she was not actually

allowed in the room that's upsetting yeah so that was also made up yeah they got to embellish stuff for yeah she wasn't allowed in the room but she did the math great good for her got the fucking job done yeah mrs mitchell i know she's not as bad as paul but she pissed me off she was she was she was a woman it makes it worse yeah i mean just... Every scene she's in, and maybe... No, I mean, I guess Kirsten Dunst did a good job because I really fucking hated her. Yeah, she was great.

Yeah, this whole movie, every time she was on screen, I was just like, what is she going to do now? Because it's like, it's where Jim Parsons' character is outright very straightforward. I don't respect you. Just the way that Mrs. Mitchell would get those underhanded passive but that's what made it so great is that they didn't make it like they didn't do they didn't do what every other movie does

make it this obvious racism because that's not really how a lot of racism is a lot of it is just how she played it it's like so layered and intertwined. It was, I mean, it was her belief system. You know what I mean? Her belief system. And when it's your belief system, you don't really have to put anything on it. And that was a very complicated, I thought,

role that I thought she did a really amazing job with. She played that character, that despicable character. I was so angry at her. The other white woman, too, who is working in the space task group, who is just as bad. She didn't get as much screen time, but she was so dismissive of Catherine. She was, but do you remember when he said, where's the computer? What happened? She said, oh, she's standing right behind you.

And she speaks, too. Yeah. Yeah, that was an okay moment. But then later on when Catherine has to go to the restroom for the first time and she's like, excuse me, where's the restroom? And the woman goes, I have no idea where your bathroom is. And then returns to her phone call, just very dismissive.

And I thought it was so... But I also think it's a product of... You think she was treated well there? Oh, no. Absolutely. Oh, yeah. So I think it's also like I think it's also that thing of like you had the opportunity to be somebody else's boss. I mean, I think a lot of, you know, women are feeling that, you know, and she probably had a lot of people, you know, I feel like it was more of a rote thing for her.

Because how many black women actually ever walked in that room? I'm going to say none. Well, even. I'm gonna say none mrs mitchell says that she's like this is the first you're the first because when katherine walked into that room everybody was he gave her the garbage can right because she thought that she was a custodian yeah yeah he gave her the garbage can and then and you could tell jim price's character already made up his mind that he was not going to respect her totally and when he told him kevin told him oh you gotta do her do his math too oh what a blow to his ego that made me laugh so hard you could like see his dick wilt recede into his body it was was... It just fell off.

Like, leaked out of his pant leg. That was such a satisfying moment. And that happened so many times. And he's like, he sucks. I wonder, because I feel like anytime there's a movie based on true events,

the family of whoever the villain is retaliates. I wonder if there was any of that in this case. Maybe we'll do some research on it. Yeah. Because people love to get money by being like, he wasn't that bad. It's like,

oh, but he was. Chances are he was. He was probably worse. They said it was worse, actually. Oh, they said their treatment in this.

They said their treatment was actually worse than what was portrayed. Oh, yeah. I feel like if they did it accurately, they probably wouldn't get to keep the PG rating. Right, I'm sure racial slurs were thrown at them. I can imagine what happens. One of the points I wanted to make is, why did it take until 2016 for this movie to be made about these people from the 60s? I mean, when was the book published?

The book was published in 2016. Oh, I remember I tried to read the book, but it wasn't out yet. Because I actually was told that I was going to have an audition for this movie. Really? Yes, I had a general at Fox, and have an audition for this movie. Really? Yes. I had a general at Fox. And they told me about this movie. Oh, and another little nice inside tidbit. I had just done a Hotels.com commercial that Ted Melfi directed,

who was a director of Hidden Figures. So it was right after that. They were like, oh, you're going to have a general at Fox. And when I saw who saw his cast i was like haha is that a joke like you know like hello that cast was amazing i'm like yeah that was cute but i was trying to get my hand on the book and trying to get as much information as i could on the project so that i could i really wanted to audition for it yeah but i never did well that's another thing we could talk about is that another movie directed and written by a white guy.

Yeah. Why did it take this long? Also, why did it have to be directed by a white guy? That was a big thing. That was a thing. thing you have this movie about these three african-american women and it didn't go to uh like abridu vene or you know i mean the up-and-coming african-american director yeah which is a very interesting story and for me i was hugely conflicted because i had i loved ted melfi from saint vincent Vincent. I was a huge...

I think the reason why I booked that Hotels.com commercial was because in my callback, when I went in, I was like, what are you doing here? Because I couldn't believe the director from St. Vincent was the director of my commercial. And I didn't have the wherewithal to be

like, see him in this, you know, be like, hmm, okay, I know who that is. And just be quiet. I was like, oh, my God, what are you doing here? This is awesome. Like, literally didn't even care and wound up booking it. But, yeah, that one commercial paid for SAG for my health insurance, remember? Hell, yeah.

One commercial. But he was such a great guy. And I remember thinking, oh, but he's like really, he's really good. Yeah, it's always tricky because he did, I mean, he had his hand in pretty much every part of the movies, got the directing, producing and writing credit. The first draft of the movie was written by a woman. That's right. And then, and it was a woman with a lot of experience with nasa too who uh her name is allison schroeder yeah yeah yeah where she had like interned at nasa i grew up near cape

canaveral the whole bit um so you know ted milfey didn't write the whole thing but it would have been nice though it would have been nice to i would have even even liked maybe Ava DuVernay or Dee Rees, who did Bessie and Pariah. I would have loved to see one of them do it. I would have actually liked to see Dee do it. It would have been great to see her do it. Yeah, because I mean, and Ted Melfi does a good job in the movie, turned out amazing, but it's not his story. But I also wonder how they have been able to get that PG rating because Dee is hardcore. Maybe.

I mean, it depends. I mean, she had to. I'm sure she could. Yeah. And the PG rating, I think, is so important for how long this movie will be remembered too. Right. Like if it just makes it more accessible to young, like you said, like it can be screened in schools now for like elementary kids. Yeah. My mom already got a copy of the DVD. She teaches second grade.

Oh, how adorable. Oh, are they sending it to schools? I think she paid for it out of pocket. And that's what teachers do now. Yeah. Even though our head of education doesn't know that,

but you know, that they pay for their own pencils, but you know, do now. Yeah, teachers don't. Even though our head of education doesn't know that, but, you know, that they pay for their own pencils. Yeah, their own. That's a whole other thing that I could, like, flip a table over. But my mom and her teacher friends, they all have, like, a little group, and they take turns buying movies and stuff and help each other out. But anyways, teachers are treated like garbage. But you know what's amazing, too? It's amazing to be—your mom teaches second grade right yeah i mean in second grade you see a movie about three african-american mathematicians like not just black kids i mean all kids see this it's like

can you do i mean that's like kids, their first president was black. It's what they know. That's wild. I mean. It's so cool. Like, I don't know. That makes me feel good because this movie can have such a role in normalizing that to kids early on to the point where it wouldn't seem unusual at all. Totally. And in my family, especially my mom's side,

mostly PhDs, men and women. I was raised around extraordinary African-Americans. So it was always like weird to me that people didn't know that. Like, wait, that's like everybody

I was raised around. What are you talking about? Like single parent house? I'm like, what's that? I'm like, because I had three generations to deal with. Great grandparents, grandparents grandparents and my parents.

You get in trouble at one house, you got in trouble two more times at two other houses. That was not nice. Well, I mean, a part of that might be that the way black people are portrayed in mainstream media, usually not that great. Right. But it's also interesting to me because most of my life was built around, I'm watching mainstream media, probably like y'all, like I'm learning this with you. Like, what the hell are they talking about? Who are they talking about? I remember like growing up, especially when the internet became a big thing. Yeah, I had read things. I knew things were going

on in the world. I definitely was not ignorant, not with my parents. But on the flip side, I'm like, my experience was around people who were educated, highly educated. Matter of fact, you didn't have a doctor. They used to look at you like, oh, like, what's wrong with you? You're going to stop there? You underachiever. You're going to stop at a bachelor's degree? You disgust me. You know, yeah, I was like, that's exactly.

They were like, oh, gosh, you know, my mom's first cousins, all of their children went to Ivy League schools. Like they all went to even before that. My aunt was one of the first I think she's one of the first black women admitted to Harvard Law School, I believe. And she spoke fluent Chinese. And I went to study abroad. I speak Japanese, but it's because she studied Chinese, which is why I wanted to take Japanese. So these were influences that I took for granted almost because I figured that everybody had that experience,

that everybody knew that about the African-American experience. That was my norm. That was your normal, yeah. And not that I hadn't seen or experienced, because my dad's side of the family is very different from my mom's, and not that I haven't seen or experienced that as well, but the thing that influenced me the most was my dad's side. I remember being like, gosh, man, these women are rough.

They have like, you know, the standard was like really high. Well, that's, I mean, what's great about this movie is it normalizes a portrayal that you don't often see of the Black community. Black women, especially. often see yeah the black community which is black women especially yeah you know i mean i feel like black women are portrayed as caretakers they're strong and struggling and they're single mom and they're all these like you gotta like literally fight the world to achieve anything you're downtrodden you So it's really, yeah, it's refreshing

because all I see is people like me. I'm like, oh, well, yeah, I understand that. These are women that I relate to. I wish I was brought up around smart people. That would have been really great. Or anyone besides white people. I grew up in a town

where I went to high school. There were three white people. I grew up in a town where I went to high school. There were three black people in my high school. Wow. And two of them were adopted by white families. So there was no diversity. There was just none. I was lucky to grow up in a very diverse

city and be exposed to a lot of stuff that I feel like people don't look at a frail white girl and be like oh she would know that but i was i mean and i'm so grateful for that because even i remember like when i was transitioning from uh moving home to to college like you just some people have no fucking clue and And it's such a wake up call to. Yeah. But, you know, I'm from the suburbs, too.

And my town was actually I want to say a large percentage Latino, really. But it was so segregated because I didn't go to school with one Latino, maybe one. Oh, yeah. Two. And I remember their names. Say them right now. No, yeah. Two. And I remember their names. Say them right now. No, I'm kidding. Shout out.

But I mean, although my school is a public school, and although my school is a very large public school, I was in the honors program, and there were two of us, two African-American. And I remember the other one as well. She went to Georgetown. We were in that program. And then one Latino and one Asian girl.

So literally, it felt like I was in a utopia within a society. Everybody else was running around intermingling and I'm in a world completely separate from everybody else. They even put us in a different wing. You know how where the computers were in that movie? That reminded me of where we were put as honor students in a different place away from everybody else, but in a different part of campus almost. And that was like a really weird experience for me

because my day, the majority of it was spent in a majority white environment. And then the only time I saw anyone of color was at track practice. And I also play the cello. So that's a whole nother like, yeah. So it was really interesting experience for me to be the one person I felt like that knew. So I knew so much about my culture, but I realized a lot of people didn't. And I did not feel like I wasn't really fighting really, but my mom was, and I didn't even realize

that until I'm like an adult now my mom was the one who would be like no or my parents both of them my dad and my mom would be like no you're gonna do a um report on this person and it cannot be like people that everybody knows right you're gonna do something on you know this person so it was really interesting that they had the wherewithal to say no you're not gonna do. You're going to, my job is to be the teacher. Yeah. And I know a lot of black people don't want to be the teacher,

but for my parents, they're like, that's your job. You are going to go in and because of what you're doing, that inevitably will open other people's minds. So yes, that was like awesome. That is great. I'm trying to think if there's anything else

about the movie I wanted to say. And maybe we want to read the book. Yeah. I want to get the book. Because I mean, watching it as, you know, as an adult, it makes me want to, you know, you can tell that there's probably a lot of moments that are left out of the movie so it can reach a larger audience. But I want to.

But I also think a lot of women, I mean, couldn't women relate to when he told her, if you were a man, would you want to but i also think a lot of women i mean couldn't women relate to and he told her if you were a man would you want to be an engineer she'd be like i would already be one yeah she's i wouldn't have to wish i would be one i would be like you know what i mean like i would be one and it's not that's not over um that's not over hello that's the thing this movie has like it's the ending is very uplifting because it's like they went on to do these things and they were regarded as the most brilliant minds in NASA. And you're like, yeah, good for them. And then you're like, wait a minute. It's 50 years later, over 50 years later, and there's still rampant racism and misogyny all around us. How do you think that I feel even with what I do?

I play the cello even now this is 2017 no one can name like a black cellist not even male or female like no one because at the time that I was doing research there were no black cellists in a philharmonic in the country

so those firsts are still happening Misty Copeland those firsts are still happening. Misty Copeland, like those firsts are still happening. I mean, the reason why I haven't act as a comedian is because there are no black cellists.

She's new, she's fresh. I can make songs like the most famous black cellist you know, because I'm the only one you probably know. I'm probably the only cellist you know. Yo-Yo Ma people know. I'm the only one you probably know probably the only cellist you know other than yo-yo ma people know I know yeah I know yo-yo ma exactly but you know so it's it's it's so like I'm waiting for the movie of you know the first black ballerina like Misty Copeland or the first black cellist like we're you know there's still more work to be done and I'm so excited because then in like give me something to look forward to yeah more work to be done and i'm so excited because then like give me something

to look forward to yeah i don't want to be a first i want to achieve some stuff over here so yeah you know there's still areas of life that are still untapped and are waiting for our genius and we gotta lift each other up so we can we can get there and as women i mean i think women in general should have been able to relate to you know know, not just African-American women, but like, if you look at the white women in that movie, they were so like oppressed. You can tell they were just suffering, suffering, like, because even for Mrs. Mitchell, for her, that was probably like a kind of a big job, you know, because she's the kind of the boss. She's the coordinator. Yeah. But even with that, who knows what her background background what she wanted to really do true who knows like who

knows i think she could have handled her i don't know choices a lot better oh yeah but it's not even about like i'm not saying that her character i mean we already know what her character is but you look at the dynamics between men and women. Sure. And between, you know, you're dealing with multiple layers, men, women, African-American, white. And you're just like layering all this stuff on there. And I think, you know, you see the secretary in the, you know, in this task group. You see like the secretary.

It's almost like she kind of already knows this is not going to work you know she kind of already wrote it off like yeah this is not going to work i can't tell you how many people see me get on stage with that show and be like okay whatever man and then they'll come after the show and be like oh it was really good actually well because she says to her she says i'm like don't expect mr harrison to warm up to you yes like and then um because maybe he didn't warm up to you. And then Mrs. Mitchell. Because maybe he didn't warm up to her. You know what I mean?

Maybe he never warmed up to her. Very possible. Yeah, and then the character of Mrs. Mitchell, as much as I can't stand her, the very tightly repressed energy. It's weird because she's sort of in the middle of she is not kind to black women because she needs to feel important and then she's constantly taking shit from the white men and it just kind of results in this weird little ball of fury like you just and and it's uncomfortable because she probably still had to go home and cook and touch somebody's toes and rub his back after she worked all damn day man forget that right she's like man i gotta listen

to jim tell me what to do is that roast done yet go listen to sheldon from big bang theory but she says things like you know you're the first black woman in this group. Don't embarrass me. And it's like, you, you. Yeah, but so did the other character to her too. Don't embarrass us. You know, but it's also like, what's funny about that is she thinks that that woman's going to embarrass her. That's the funny part.

Like, really? I mean, you clearly don't know. Like the level of, she was so unaware of how talented they were. All she knows is I can't believe I had to come down here to get one of you. Basically, you're so unaware of how freaking phenomenal they are. It makes me laugh. All I could think about is that there's a poem by Maya Angelou called Phenomenal Women or Phenomenal Woman.

And I'm like, and our sorority used to always like quote this poem. And all I could think about is you have no idea how fierce these women are. These women are, they're in circles around you and all, you know, but that's how wrote her job is. I got to get down here, get this thing. All she knows, I got to fill this, fill this, fill this, fill this. I don't want to deal with your issues with wanting a raise chick you you you're lucky in her mind you're lucky you're even here she says that too yeah you're lucky you're even here and have a job yes and really it really is the reverse you're lucky you have a job right because they're all

so much smarter than you yeah she for For real. She would have rocked. Dorothy would have rocked her job so hard. That woman would be unemployed. Oh, for sure. She'd be back in the kitchen having more babies. By Jim. Jim. Jim with his roast.

Jim can fuck off in this movie. I found out a little bit more about the charity screenings where quite a few of them were sponsored by the actors. And there was also a Girl Scout initiative to get a bunch of Girl Scouts to be able to go. And then there were different ones sponsored by Octavia Spencer, Janelle Monae, and Taraji P. Henson, also Jim Parsons, also Ted Melfi. And so I think that there was like 15 different cities that ended up getting a ton of young

people to get to see the movie. Girl Scouts still around, huh? Were you a Girl Scout? So was I. I used to always get the most patches because my dad worked at a college and he'd make everybody come into his office and buy Girl Scout cookies. So I would win every time.

The whole college. My parents were not motivated in regards to my Girl Scout. And I'm not a salesman. Yeah, I would only ever get my grandma and my uncle to buy a box. And I'd be like, I've sold two boxes. And they're like, shut up, Caitlin. Get out of here. No, no, we were rocking it.

That's amazing. Yeah. I loved Girl Scouts until they told us to go camping. Yeah, I was about to say, the wilderness badges are brutal. I'm like, I have no desire. If i had a choice i would never go outside no my mom and i were like okay where's the closest hotel like we are not um we invented uh indoor plumbing for a reason i'm not gonna i will say that my parents afford as a certain lifestyle i'm grateful for yeah i was like no we do we do not like camping maybe i wish they had

what's it called glamping now is that what it's called yeah i want like a glamorous camping yeah we would totally sign up for that yeah but my mom and i were like oh my god my mother was like wear your slippers in that shower i don't know what's in there we were terrible we were just like this is gross i was like we would have been horrible in the wilderness man we would have been horrible oh and my dad was like i mean he's a professor so my dad would be my dad used to like take the tour guy's job the tour guy would be like saying something and my dad was my dad's so smart i think he is a computer my dad would literally be like oh just to add to that and um this is i mean my dad knows everything about everything yeah he just he just retains everything i want to meet your parents and you would just sit here and watch him like

watch him no way no i'll keep them they're keepers yeah i had an intense pta mom when i was younger but my mom one of those yeah my mom didn't my mom didn't go back to work until I was 11. She used to be a banker before I was born and then ended up staying home with me and all 10 of my cousins from before I was born until I was 11. Yeah, so there would be 10 kids at my house every day. Oh, sugar. And then she went back and she was a PTA mom when she wasn't working and was just taking care of like this brood of children. And then now she works at that school that she used to be at the PTA and she like went back and got her master's and now she teaches. Because I think that she just really wore the principal down by being around for like 10 consecutive years. Yeah.

I mean, my mom probably had to deal with, especially in the honors program, she had to deal with certain things in terms of teachers, not only just being a black female. There was one honors program where we had a regents exam in New York. I got like a 97 on the regents exam. And they didn't put me in honors English the following year. But they didn't put any women in honors English the following year. Hardly any. Oh, my God.

And my mom, like, noticed it. My mom was like, no, they had to go and fight to get us in honors English. I didn't know that. My mom was like, you guys are racist and sexist. And these women and these kids need to get into this class. She got a 97 on the Regents. Are you crazy? That's my mom oh

terrific are there any final thoughts anyone has about the movie i loved it i want more kids to see it like i said before it was just a nice it was just nice to see what sorority sisters that's so cool because like that pride is like what we were around. So it's just like, yeah, I get this. And it's just great to see that. Oh, obviously this passes the back door. Yes. We should usually say that. Yeah, it's like almost a comical passing of the test.

Yeah, it happens. And I mean, I only wrote down like the scenes that happened in the first half hour. And there are like six of them where it passes like in the first scene where the three women are together fixing the car they're talking about the car they're talking about their jobs at nasa then there's a room full of women the one that like dorothy's handing out assignments to they're all talking to each other there mrs mitchell comes in and, hey, who can handle analytic geometry here? Most of their conversations, whenever

there are two women talking to each other, are not about a man. It's usually about their job, space travel, math, you know, any number of things. There's a ton of scenes where it passes the test. No question about it.

It reminds me of my first job I had. My first job was at Moody's Investor Service. It's a rating agency. So they rate companies, Fortune 500 companies. And my job in the summer was to use a Gini coefficient to figure out the average income of homes in certain areas. And I remember it was

really statistics. And I remember sitting there telling people, this is what I do for the summer. I'm like 17, 18 years old. And people look at me like, nah, man, we don't even know what you're talking about. This sounds crazy. And I remember like thinking about that first job. And granted, I mean, I love math and I'm great at it, but not the way these women are. But it made me feel really good that I was like throwing out stuff.

You know, I was like, yeah. And people are like, oh, what the hell is she talking about? It reminds me of my job as a Hooters delivery driver. Oh, man. Bringing it back. No,

actually, like, I was, I was, were you, is that real? I was, yeah,

that was a real thing. Delivery driver. I was a delivery driver for Hooters. You were, you were Uber, like, Uber Eats.

Uber Eats. But no, actually, I was the only woman they hired to be a delivery driver, and most of the other guys got fired, so I was like one. I was like, you're the last one. You're the last one. I kind of was. Your story must be told. It must. Call Melfi.

I had a math job once. I wouldn't say I excelled at it. But I worked at the comptroller's office for all the summers in college. Still couldn't exactly tell you what a comptroller does. But I crunched a lot of numbers in that very cold office full of people who did not really know how to use computers. That was mostly what I did, was walk around and tell almost retirees how to

use Microsoft Word. You were like the Dorothy. You taught them how to... Yeah, I was the Dorothy of the Massachusetts Comptroller's Office. She was great, and she had the foresight to know... To learn the computer. I forgot about that.

Yeah. She snuck in there to learn about the machines i forgot about that yeah yeah oh my she snuck in there to learn about the machines that was not good and then she stole a book from the library i love that speech she gives she's like i pay taxes everything this library was paid by taxes it's mine to do but do you realize the impact of not being able to get the knowledge yeah knowledge being withheld from you i can't even wrap my mind around that I did not realize until this movie that libraries were segregated like that

that there was like I did not know that I mean if you even think forget about just like in this movie before what was the one thing the slave math did not want the slaves to know they didn't want them reading you cannot read

they didn't want literate people because literate people know how to fight back and how to fight that. They didn't want them to have the tools. Right. So what do you do if you want to keep someone down? You take their education. You withhold. Yeah.

You withhold knowledge. Yeah. Right. And that goes back to having to go to court to take a night class. Exactly. Limiting access to education. Exactly. Exactly.

And basically, like, humiliating people. Absolutely. Demoralizing. Demoralizing. Yeah. Exactly. And basically humiliating people for needing to jump through all those hoops to even have access. And then when she walks into that class and when she finally gets, she does all the things she needs to do and she finally is granted access to this class she needs to take. And she walks in and it's a bunch of white dudes. It's a white teacher. And they're just like, what do we do? This curriculum isn't designed for women. She's like, I think it'll be fine. That's a good point, too.

The fact that it needs to be easier for women. Yeah. That's unfathomable to me because the women in my family were so intelligent. I feel like they were smarter than the men half the time. I mean, yeah, the attitude was like, oh, you're a small woman brain. How could you ever possibly handle this information? Man, it just reminds me of that. Wasn't there like a Barbie where you like pulled the string and it was like, math is hard.

Oh, yeah. But do you think it's a portrayal of white women? What, like... Like that frail, like you don't know as much. I mean, obviously in this movie it was like, you know, it was an African-American woman. But I feel like, I'm like, what is this? Like, I don't know that. Oh, this woman, maybe she's not as smart.

Really? But then maybe when I got older, it made more sense that oh men really think this that was see i was so blinded by that yeah so blinded because as a as a woman as a girl in my class i was whipping those dudes ass so i didn't even really think about like i didn't think about gender right yeah like gender didn't even come into my brain like that yeah i don't know it didn't occur to me until maybe high school, but probably later. Because, I mean, like I love everyone in my family, but the males in my family are 100% betas.

Like every major male figure in my life was a beta, is a beta to this day. And so, like, and even down to, like, me and my cousins, and I don't know exactly what the split between girls and boys is, about half and half, but the girls that I grew up with, we were, you know, we were whipping their ass at stuff at school, and that was

just sort of what it was, and what it always was. Yeah. And you know what? I think about it actually, too. That's actually true. I don't think it's a race thing. I think that men just really think they're smarter than women.

Yeah. I think it's true. I think maybe women of color experience it to a greater degree where, you know, people assume, oh, you're not going to be as smart. You're not going to know as much, et cetera. Yeah. Than white women. Yeah. That's so interesting like i just think it's an interesting thing to sit there and be you're right and you sit there and you want and but that's something i don't understand like i understand

it intellectually but in reality in experience i'm like no this is not true no this is ridiculous just like takes you a really long time to realize that that is actually what's happening like I remember this very like specific memory in college of like I was starting to do comedy stuff and I was like taking an interest in it and I'd been like feeling weird for a while and then it just hit me I'm like oh you

just don't think that I can do this like and it was it hadn't occurred to me until college I think I think college it hit me yeah that people also too I remember being I'm a decent master but I'm a really good like micro econ and statistics like that was like more my thing in my micro econ class which like everybody's always fail these are you know gray on the curve and I remember they were like well somebody destroyed the curve because she got it it was me you fucked up the curve and i realized now he never said who

destroyed the curve but he did when i did it did not hit me until much later i was like i wonder if he'd said that because i was a black woman in this class of mostly white dudes do you think he was trying to he was calling attention to it because he like wanted you to be he wanted the other students to be mad at you no well I thought they were mad I don't think that was his intention okay I think he wanted them to acknowledge that I had done this yeah that's cool man but they were mad yeah you know I'm like, whatever, man. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry that I'm.

Study harder. Yeah. Curve destroyer. That's a brutal position to be in. Loved it. Yeah. And I try to achieve it every time. Very nice.

No mercy. Yeah. So let's rate the movie. Yes. On our nipple scale. Our famous nipple scale. This is another movie that I'm going to give a very high nipple scale our famous nipple scale this is another movie that i'm gonna give a very high nipple rating to maybe even a five you're gonna do it like a 4.5 or

if i'm gonna commit i'm gonna give it a five yeah um i love the way the three main women are portrayed um they're just they're they're constantly like uplifting each other. I just love that the movie shows women in a way we haven't seen before, typically. Three black women who are aerospace engineered geniuses. That was a really cool thing to see on screen. And I just really enjoy this movie. And it makes me feel a lot of feelings that i don't like to admit that i have because feelings are dumb they're in there they're in i know i need to let them embrace them i know forget that i'm trying but um yeah all i want to do is talk about my feelings all day

every day high five i pay someone a lot of money to listen to my feelings that's smart i'm in debt how to do that because i love to talk about my feelings so much. Anyways. I'm going to give it 5 out of 5 for sure. Yeah, I mean for all the reasons that you said, also just every character in this movie is portrayed with nuance that I think that

if the attention to detail hadn't been so strong, it would have been very easy to paint every character in this movie with far broader strokes and it wouldn't have been as effective. I'm so happy this movie exists and that people will be able to watch it. I like want to show my kids this movie. Yeah.

Hardcore five nipples. Yeah. Hardcore. Each about three African-American women, mathematicians who are portrayed layered, multidimensional characters. Hell yeah. Five nipples. We did.

This is the second movie that's gotten out of like whatever the 25 we've done that have gotten the five out of five treatment. The first one was Moana. Yep. Nina, do you have anything you want to plug? Or where can people find you online? I have a website, NinaDaniels.com I'm huge into Snapchat and Instagram So on Instagram, NinaDaniels.official

And Snapchat, I'm on Nina's Playground And I have a monthly show, like you said earlier Here at the Nerd Melt Mostly the last Tuesday of the month Nina Daniels presents the Playground And it's awesome and a lot of fun Yeah, anything you want to plug, Jamie? yes, this episode is going to come out

in the future but right now, I made a bunch of pinatas today, I'm doing a live stream at JASH tomorrow that you'll be able to watch by the time this episode comes out in its entirety, it's called Swan Lake live from a locked basement I'm going to do ballet

I made a bunch of new cartoons for it. And I've got to go finish making the pinatas for it. It takes place on the day of Ronald Reagan's assassination. And I've got a big pinata of Jodie Foster's head. I'm going to smash it. I love everything about that. Spoiler alert. I was going to say the same thing.

I'm like, ditto to what Caitlin said. So watch that. And at Hamburger Phone. Yeah, I don't have any cool Swan Lake projects or anything like that. But you can follow me at Caitlin Durante on Twitter. You can follow the podcast on Twitter, too, at Bechtelcast. You can email us. We haven't talked about the email.

I don't even know if we've gotten any. I should check it. But anyway. We just said, email us. We don't check it. Maybe I'll edit that part out. We'll see. Well, we answer, it says on our Facebook page that we answer messages very

quickly. I was like, hell yeah, go us. Very awesome. But yeah, find us on Facebook, find us on Twitter. You can email us at thevectalcast at gmail dot com and rate and review us on iTunes and we're on SoundCloud. And we're on Libsyn. Yeah, shout out to Aristotle. We're on SoundCloud, baby!

Woo! Thank you so much, Nina, for being here. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Aristotle. Thank you so much. It was awesome. Reach for the stars, guys. It's a hidden figures joke. I know.

I saw it. I got it. I was like, are you in a monologue right now? This is the famous Caitlin soliloquy hour. Yeah, yeah, just a moment of zen to end it. Okay, all right, yeah. Bye. Bye, gang. Toodles.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. What is wrong with me? A show about the ways that mental illness is shaped by not just biology, swaps of different meds, but by culture and society.

By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane, what we can do about it, and why we should care. Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How do you feel about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. lady rebel like what does that even mean it's right here in black and white and prints they lie bigger than a flag or mascot listen to rebel spirit on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts