The Bechdel Cast - The Wolf of Wall Street

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Caitlin and Jamie take a bunch of ludes and chat about The Wolf of Wall Street on this episode recorded live in Sacramento as a part of February's Barbie Tour!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that?

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from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jacob Goldstein.

I used to host Planet Money. Now, I wherever you get your podcasts. how to do, from creating a drone delivery business to building a car that can truly drive itself. Listen to What's Your Problem on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hello, welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name's Jamie.

My name is Caitlin. I was expecting you to say your last name too. I got really... Oh no, I'm trying to like pivot to like Beyonce. Oh, okay. I'm trying to become, what it eponymous oh is that what that means I don't know no mononymous did I just oh monogamous monogamous I mean not for everyone, but certainly for me. Not for me, Brag. I don't know. My name is Jamie Loftus.

What's your name? God. My name is Caitlin Durante. Okay, fine. And this is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point. This is a special episode because this is our live episode on The Wolf of Wall Street, which we recorded live in Sacramento at Stab Comedy Theater many, many months ago. This was February. It's wild. I feel like,

honestly, I was going to be like, I feel like basically the same person. But like, you know, it was a really, really fun show. It was Yes, thank you to everyone who came out. It was an absolute blast. Yeah, we covered the Wolf of Wall Street, which you know, if you have clicked on to the but but but Caitlin had this idea to do this. And I think it was rather brilliant because if you were not aware it was a while ago now we did a tour that was called the Barbie tour but in Sacramento we had two show times because the first one sold out because we're so extremely popular yeah yeah yeah and so we had to think of a second movie to cover and Caitlin suggested The Wolf of Wall Street. Could you unpack that for us? Well, I was like, okay, Barbie is all about Margot Robbie wearing pink. In what other movies does Margot Robbie wear pink?

And the obvious choice was Wolf of Wall Street, a movie that pairs perfectly with Barbie. We can all agree. And I think it is fascinating in terms of career trajectory that often the first movie, especially for like a bombshell actress like Margot Robbie is, who is also tremendously talented and a really great producer and very smart. But you'll often see, I feel like, them burst onto the scene in roles that are fundamentally exploitative in a way that is not their fault for sure margot robbie was is amazing in this movie she is also quite young and then seeing almost 10 years later seeing her in the most successful movie of the year that she also produced that she had a huge hand in that is you can listen to our barbie episode that for the most part you know is like a kind of a good feminism 101 type movie that normally doesn't do as well without a huge star behind it so and we were doing it in sacramento which felt

greta gerwig coded you know it was all it was all kind of connected her web connects them all if margot robbie had fed in madame webb i i mean no she's only in the dc universe right i guess she didn't really fuck with marvel marvel is kind of a liability at this point i mean true well speaking of margot robbie's career trajectory the difference between thank god her character you brought it up her character in suicide squad versus her character in birds of prey she's playing the same character but the way that character is portrayed and the you know amount of agency that character has and the way that character is framed etc huge difference and it's so interesting that she executive produced one of those movies and not the other

very interesting i margot robbie stan sorry if anyone's upset get a life we covered the wolf of wall street is the point and we we also have covered a number of Martin Scorsese movies in the last year or so. And so we were excited to cover it because it was a movie that we both like. Which if you know that we're hosts of the Bechdel cast feels confusing. We get into it. It was a very fun show and before you get into our live show recording and then we have some pickups later on because it is a very complicated movie to talk about we had more to say that we didn't have time for but first caitlin what the hell is the bechdel

test tell me gee whiz i'll tell you it is a media metric tell me created by allison bechdel first appearing in her comic dykes to watch out for in 1985 appearing as a bit a goof it was never intended to be the media metric that it came to be sure thing and there are many versions of the test the one that we have cultivated over the years is this. Do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And is their conversation about something other than a man? If so, it passes the Bechdel test. Also, we like it when it's a substantial conversation and not just throwaway dialogue. So that is what we spend, I i don't know one to three minutes of every episode talking about and the rest is other stuff so uh we just wanted to thank everyone who came to

sacramento almost six months ago now for coming to this show uh thank you to stab and let's get into it let's see really quick our entry point into the live show is right after we have crawled on stage as if we were oh my god i forgot we crawled on stage wayloods that was a good idea that was a great idea we executed it perfectly and it was awesome that was a good idea um and then the other thing to do right at the very top here is to place a content slash trigger warning because there is discussion of sexual assault marital rape things of that nature that we will be discussing throughout the episode. So please enjoy our live episode of The Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah. The Bechdelcast.

Well, welcome. Thank you for coming to this very important dissertation on The Wolf of Wall Street. Yes. At 9.30 on a Friday night. Feels good. Feels right. I have my toes out like it's a wiki feed nightmare

for me scandalous i know i'm just kind of like letting loose you know well that's what the quaaludes will do to you we're both on so many lewds right now so get your loose wow okay um hello my name is caitlin dorante my name is jamie loftus and uh this is our our podcast uh where we talk about your favorite movies from an intersectional feminist lens and tonight we're operating at a very high difficulty level so enjoy whatever you're about to hear uh give it up if you listen to the show okay wow free applause okay uh give it up if you listened to the show. Okay. Wow. Free applause. Okay. Give it up if you've been dragged here and you're like,

I don't know what's happening. Yeah. I love when someone is confidently unaware of what's happening. That's beautiful. That's Lude's energy. Hell yeah. Well, that's you'll get the feel for it.

We trust you. Uh, and tonight we were talking about the Wolf of Wall Street. Yes, we are. And, um, well,

I was thinking of how Issa Rae and Barbie says, Oh, are you guys watching the Godfather? And that was me in college when this movie came out to all 500 guys in the fucking filthy punk house I lived in feeling like oh are you all watching the Wolf of Wall Street and they were like no we're playing The Last of Us and it's feminist okay shut up okay whatever I don't have PTSD about college at all. Jamie, what's your relationship with?

Well, I guess I just gave away some of it. Yeah, this movie came out when I was in college. It was, for a long time, it was my favorite Martin Scorsese movie, but it was because I had not yet seen Goodfellas. Which this movie is kind of the same worse goodfellas um but yeah i saw it and i really i mean as far as our show it does horribly as far as a movie to watch i really like it this movie is fucking wild it is like it's so long but and so much happens and sometimes something so horrible happens that it's like the water's so hot it's cold again and you're like i

think i'm okay with this like whatever is happening it's so funny it's so fucked up yeah i mean this is like this is a uh not a comfort movie it's viscerally upsetting to watch but this is like a movie i've seen many times i watched it like on dvd in college and i'll come back to it every so often and there's so many iconic moments one of which we just attempted to reenact and we nailed it i think everyone knew exactly what was going on no they were like no they're gonna do performance art no i didn't sign up for this um but no i mean it's a movie i really enjoy watching and i've never been forced to discuss before and so it's just gonna be it's gonna be an adventure and the reason that we chose this movie to do the same night as Barbie,

because we're doing two shows here, is because it's another movie where Margot Robbie wears pink. And there's no denying it. And I didn't know that this movie also the same cinematographer as Barbie. So this man has turned various lenses on Margot Robbie over the years. So, yeah. Caitlin, what's your history with Wolf of Wall Street? I had only seen it once before prepping for this episode.

I think that I was like, it's too long. I can't watch it. BRB, I have to watch Titanic instead, which is longer. It would have been cool if wall street sunk whoa what if matthew mcconaughey turns to the camera and is like i think you may get your headlines mr wall street journal and then wall street sinks that would have been fun yeah so i don't know i i saw it once and i was like this is goodfellas but longer so i'll just keep watching goodfellas i guess instead um no i like the movie too it's it's a 10 out of 10 on caitlin's rompometer we were we've been like watching it in our

various hotel rooms and just like chuckling to ourselves and be like hey remember the part where he has too many alludes which is every part and then we just start laughing this movie is like funnier than it has any right to be yeah yes and a lot of that humor comes from very problematic sources yes And we'll talk about them. Yes. Wait. What? What if this is me finding out that not everything that happens in The Wolf of Wall Street is good? No. What? No, The Wolf of Wall Street's my friend.

Margot Robbie reading this script. No. He's such a bad wolf! Well, anyway, should I do the recap? Yes. Okay. Oh, that's so... Okay, I'm going to react as only as Margot Robbie

reading the script for the first time. Oh my god. All right, so here's the script for the first time. Oh my God. All right. So here's, here's the recap for the Wolf of Wall Street. I am going to gloss over some stuff and leave some stuff out because it is a three hour movie. Yes.

Please don't come to up to us after that. This is my favorite. When we do live shows or even when we get like emails after episodes come out where someone is like hey did you know that there was actually a 30 second scene that you didn't reference and I was like thank you so much Scott I'm assuming

um yes thank you the show is free fuck off that said we love all of you thank you so much for being here yes please buy merch okay so um this movie is based on a true story about real life person jordan belfort the year is 1987 i have been alive for one year. Me?

Not so much. Don't even exist yet. Parentheses, young. So we meet Jordan Belfort, played by Leonardo DiCaprio. He is an uber-rich stockbroker. He's 26 years old when we meet him. And it's like, he's like CW 26 years old. Oh, I love, I love when someone looks in your face in cameras as I'm 26. And like, I'm looking at you.

I, you look great, but you're not 26 okay so uh he makes nearly a million dollars a week at his uh money job wait a million dollars a week i bet his peepee's so big wow that's like the subtext of every line of dialogue in this movie he's like by the way, my pee-pee, huge. Huge. He's got it all. He's got a beautiful, his wife. His wife. His wife. She's like, that's me.

Her name is Naomi, and she is played by Margot Robbie. The wolfess of Wall Street. Wolfess. They have two kids. They live on a huge estate. There's a bunch of cars and yachts and private jets and all of that. He also has addictions to drugs, especially Quaaludes. Ever heard of them?

Okay. I had not heard of them before I saw The Wolf of Wall Street. Really? No, I didn't. I was very sheltered. The first time I saw someone smoke weed, I cried. And I was like old. I was like

16. It was today. I didn't know what lewds were and then when I learned what lewds were, I just like loved to say it. Lewds are so, I was just reminding you, my dog, I used to have like all this lewds lore attached to my dog where I was like,

well, my dog is a millionaire. Here's what he does. He goes to Beverly Hills and he just digs in rich people's yards and gets their hidden lewds. And then he resells them on the black market and the people he sells them to are the lewd dudes wow anyways i think lewd is a fun word but i don't want to take one well i don't think you can't but they don't they don't exist well

they didn't stop leo from getting them it's true but that was like 30-ish years ago. I'm like him. I could get them. Okay, okay, okay. And then I would sink my boat. There is a boat that sinks in this movie. That's foreshadowing. It's something that we're going to see a little later.

Spoiler for Titanic and The Wolf of Austria. Anyway, so he loves lewds, and that's one of his main personality traits um he also has three federal agencies after him he's obsessed with money and gambling and alcohol and all this stuff yeah friday night lights is looking for him i don't know what that guy I know his name is Kyle Chandler two first names don't love that already I'm ill at ease but it's like yeah I was like oh Friday night lewds love him so we flash back a few years prior where we learn how jordan got to this point he's a starry-eyed 22 year old he's newly married but not to margot robbie yet kristen miliotti miliotti i actually don't miliotti no no one cares okay all right as long as no one cares in this movie if you're brunette no one cares don't worry about it

so he shows up on wall street in new york city ever heard of it and starts working for mark hannah played by matthew mcconaughey two diverse names let me just say the sheer panic i experienced when matthew mcconaughey shows up on screen and I was like, Oh my God, I forgot he was in this movie. How much of, I hate him so much. I hate Matthew McConaughey so deeply. And I was like, is he in this whole movie?

I hate it already. And then luckily only, yeah, it's like a glorified cameo. Although two things first, he, cause I think if there was any Leonardo DiCaprio performance that deserved an Oscar, it was this

one. It's so good. But Matthew McConaughey beat him this year for Dallas Buyers Club, which I've never seen. Also, this is my favorite flex in the entire world. For one single week, I knocked Matthew McConaughey off the New York Times

bestsellers list. And week i knocked matthew mcconaughey off the new york times bestsellers list and the week after he was back and i was gone but for one week and i did it for you thank you thank you so much babe i did it for you i appreciate it hashtag by raw dog by jamie loft is but um no thank you thank you i wonder a really generous smattering of applause from three people all i had to say is i am ambivalent towards i don't know why i hate him so much he just he irritates me so badly anyway he luckily he's not in the movie that much but he is there long enough to tell jordan how to make a shitload of money as a stockbroker which is by jerking off yes that's literally number one yeah doing a lot of cocaine and jordan was like i see your cocaine and i raise you lewds i like that it. I think this is the right order

where he's like jerk off a lot, do a lot of cocaine and develop positive business relationships. You're like, sure, in that order. Except he doesn't even say that. He's just like, you're going to basically want to exploit your clients. That's their version of positive business relationships.

So then for the next six months, Jordan learns the ropes. And then on his first day as a licensed broker black monday happens which i was only one years old so i don't remember it but you were affected you were your boss baby like no my baby stalks um that's that's baby margot robbie from what i gather from the movie because i did not bother to look it up black monday was like a mini stock market crash yeah there is a whole uh mini series about it starring don cheadle whoa it's a fact okay moving on thank you uh so the firm that he worked for at the time goes out of business, and then he gets another job at a crappy firm in Long Island that trades penny stocks.

But he makes a 50% commission on these versus the 1% commission he made on Wall Street, on the blue stocks. So he's like, now I'm going to scam poor people. And we're like, wow, this guy's awesome he's cool and he's a very persuasive salesman so he starts making quite a bit of money and then one day he meets a guy named donnie azoff played by jonah hill he approaches jordan because he notices jordan's expensive car and he's like I will work for you and quit my job right now I love this whole performance is Jonah Hill leading with his

veneers he's just his and I know it is like a character thing because they mentioned that this whoever this guy's based on had veneers because they're like he his teeth were the same length it was scary but like the veneers are so distracting i just i as i notice veneers i like well it's the jerry brookheimer it's the jerry brookheimer effect or if you get or it's like if you are on snl for a third season your teeth your mouth changes it's like i i noticed these things and i just don't understand because it's like veneers are so i i'm assuming they're so expensive right but then it just looks like one continuous tooth like why do they look like shit if they cost so much money and then i whenever you see someone with veneers you just imagine because you know

to get veneers have you ever seen a picture with someone without their veneers it's a little binocular it's really bad what wait what is binocular what is that it's a it's a series of ya novels about a rabbit that's a vampire it's not that point no okay everyone's having a meltdown we've lost control underneath to get veneers they shave your normal teeth down to little freaky points and then they put your little doll teeth on what and then you're jonah hill in the movie and then you have new like pete davidson mouth look at pete davidson's mouth 10 years ago it's different i'm here to tell you okay anyways his veneers wow they're prominent shocking yes um so anyway donnie azoff starts working

with jordan but he's weird and he has veneers and he married his cousin which is true that i i know well because this is like when you see based on a true story you're like chances are that's horseshit um i did like a cursory overview of like comparing fact and truth and i mean like most of this movie is true um and weirdly and this is like a criticism we have of the movie that we're going to talk about but when jordan belfort saw this movie after personally profiting off of it because he got a million dollars in his rights being bought right all this shit so uh but he saw it and he was like oh yeah and i was worse and so yeah no that guy did marry his first cousin wow so now you know that

oops I don't think so he did it on purpose yeah true oops I married my cousin yeah when you're at the when you're saying your vows you can't just say I do you say oops

I mean that's any marriage though. True. All right. So they're buds now and they open a firm together and hire some dudes. Some lewd dudes. Some lewd dudes. Mostly weed dealers. And they all become brokers.

And then we see that the first scene where he's like sell me a pen and he's like okay and he doesn't and we're like wow and we're like wow it's a metaphor for future moments in the movie so then jordan's his first wife theresa bruna, you know, she's done for. She's Kristen Milioti, is what we decided on. We're not sure. I love her. I think she's like an incredible character actor, and I until today have never had to say her last

name out loud. Yeah. But she's great. Yes. So, she has reservations about Jordan's job because he mostly sells these penny stocks to working and middle class people. And she would feel better if he sold them to rich people who can afford to lose money if those companies go under. And she has every woman in this movie has an incredible Long Island accent. But my favorite line from her specifically is when right before uh jordan i was like leonardo dicaprio goes to like the penny stocks he's like i don't know maybe i should

just be a stock boy i'm a loser and then she's like you're not a stock boy you're a stock broker and then he's like you're right my wife i'm going to work at toilet like you said it's nice yeah love her um and then he takes her advice and he reinvents the company it's now called stratton oakmont and they're going to target rich people but still sell crappy penny stocks. Do we know why it's called Striden Oakmont? Because it just sounds like something that sounds like a company. I don't know.

He doesn't explain where the name comes from. Also the mascot is a lion and it's like the movie isn't called The Lion of Wall Street. No. Good point, Caitlin. Thank you so much. i'm so smart they pay us the medium but please buy our merch no i'm kidding um all right so stratton oakmont grows as a company and before long they are making many many millions of dollars and and then Forbes does a profile on Jordan

and the company, which is not flattering, but his appearance in Forbes legitimizes the company. Yeah, they're like, oh, he's a true scammer. He's a newsworthy criminal. Yeah. We want to work for him. So then there's a million guys that are like,

my peepee is big! At his door and he's like, yes. that are like, my peepee is big at his door. And he's like, yes. Yes. Great. And then Jordan hires his dad, Max, played by Rob Reiner. I love that sentence. You can't talk me out of loving that sentence.

It's great. And he's giving a great performance. And his job is to be the accountant i don't walk around and be like jordan don't do that what the fuck are you doing i love that they're just like paying rob reiner to almost have a heart attack in every scene it's true i think he is supposed to be like keeping track of the finances some sort of i don't know. I worked at the Massachusetts comptroller's office for three years, and I don't know what they were doing over there, but it seems something like that.

Sure, sure. Something financial. Yeah, he's like, I guess, monitoring the company's expenses, and what they're spending money on is very expensive dinners, parties, sex workers, drugs, especially quaaludes. And the workplace is just like a complete circus. Men are screaming. They're breaking things.

Everyone's fucking each other. Yes. They're treating little people and women like objects and animals. There's a chimpanzee. It felt so bad for it and yeah the whole place is a mess and then one day at a company party jordan meets naomi that's again margot robbie's character that's margot robbie's character you're welcome and she is so hot that Donnie takes out his penis and jerks off with it. In the middle of the party. Yes.

Lewds were involved. And then Jordan starts having an affair with Naomi. He takes her out to dinner. His wife, Teresa, her out to dinner. His wife Teresa finds out pretty quickly. So then Jordan files for a divorce and we don't see her anymore. She's no longer in the movie.

He starts living with Naomi pretty much immediately. They get married soon after. We also learn about all the very illegal things that Jordan is getting up to at Stratton Oakmont. We sort of do. I do appreciate if like this movie paved the way

for, oh gosh, what's the other money movie? The money movie where they're like looking and being like, money is so weird, right? What's that movie? Oh, The Big Short? Yeah. Yeah, that's every five seconds they're like money what and you're

like yeah yeah i get it well then there's also that one that came up pretty recently called dumb money and did i see it in theaters i did you did are they are they always looking at the screen and being like what the hell is up with money they They are. The whole genre of movie is just like white guys being like, money is so weird. In this movie, I mean, well, and I like the big short, but yeah, I feel like,

I appreciate as someone with three brain cells that the crimes, like you sort of know what they are, but sometimes like they'll just break the fourth wall and be like, so what's happening is like bad i'm like that should happen in every movie that would be so helpful for me like i would really get through like i don't know it really would have helped me get through anatomy of a fall if they if they just were like uh whatever the french version for this

is bad i'm like i'm not smart i need i need you to tell me yeah yeah he does that a lot but the things that they're doing i think are like insider trading and other things and it's like involving steve madden shoes it's very yeah yeah yes but all of these shady dealings earned him enough money to like buy that estate and the yacht and all of that stuff and then we cut to 18 months later jordan and naomi have a baby a boss baby if you will a greg greg she gets a greggan and has a greg yes and there's a scene where naomi suspects him of cheating she She threatens to withhold sex. She puts her shoe on his head.

Right. And we know this scene. And it's a scene. It's a scene and we love it. And that is the same cinematographer that framed all of Barbie. Uh-huh. And so the human experience is so complicated, you could say. You know, he has range.

He does. He does. And so does Margot Robbie in Love, Huh? So true. Okay, so the next big move for Stratton Oakmont is finding companies that they can take public. And they do that with Steve Madden. Did you ever have, is Steve Madden, I think I still see him at DeMalle. Oh, yeah. Is he still at DeMalle? Yeah. he's got those chunky shoes at the mall that's nice he's expanded also i bought a pair of steve actually well um you guys at the at the live show you'll get this maybe i'll cut

this out of the what are you about to say so a few months ago i went to the mall the glendale galleria famous mall and i went into steve madden because i needed a pair of shoes and then what happened for a party and then and i went to the sales person and i said i need a pair of shoes for a party and she's like how about these ones how about these and i was like yeah i don't know i'm looking for like this kind of more specific thing and she's like well what kind of party is it and i was like it's a sex party oh i know this right yes and then she was so freaking cool she didn't even care she was like oh people come to steve madden about this all the time it's kind of a Steve Madden regular thing.

She didn't even bat an eyelash. I was like so scandalized to tell her and she was just like, oh, well, okay, what about those ones? And I was like. I love that. I also love you and that you told her what you were getting them for. I did not need to say that at all. In fact, it was me flexing and be like, yeah, I not need to say that at all i in fact it was me flexing be like

yeah i'm going to a fuck party you know i like at the same mall i regular i frequent the croc store and if anyone ever was like i was like hey i'm looking for something to walk in circles do you have a recommendation and they're like yeah there's only one shoe here pick a fucking color get out of my face get a jibbit get a widget whatever the fuck no i have i have uh barbie crocs over there oh yeah they're really nice they're just dirty sorry anyways shoes are anyway i bought my sex party shoes and she was not impressed and i i mean that's really cool on both of your parts. I think everyone's operating at a very high level.

Thank you so much. They're not doing it like that over at the Crocs store, I'll tell you that much. What function do you need these Crocs for? Sex party. I do have Crocs with heels, so I'm not saying it's impossible. Whoa.

Yeah, I wore Croc platforms to a wedding and i was the best man at the wedding so this is a good tangent i think i think i'm keeping it in the episode where are your fuck shoes now they're at my house my home i don't know what answer i was expecting no i brought them with me they're still they got lost in the tangle as i think what i expected i lost them fucking uh i lost airpods fucking once oh not because not because i would they were in. I don't know you anything.

But that actually reminds me of a later DiCaprio story. Does everyone know where I'm going with this? There is a... Oh, gosh. I'm going to need an assist from the audience remembering. But there is a DiCaprio because this movie doesn't make sense in that I think that Kristen Miloti is over 25 years old so of course he has to break up with her it makes sense Margot Robbie

is 22 in this movie of course he has to marry her that's the DiCaprio way he is a bit evil but there is some like weird folk tale about him that he only fucks wearing headphones whoa yeah he'ss wearing headphones. Whoa. Yeah. He's like wearing headphones whilst

fucking listening to I think like is there like it's what? Wait. That can't be true. Someone from the audience is saying he listens to his own movies. Which ones? Is he like blasting

the aviator? Like what is he? What? Wait, does anyone? I thought it was like scary industrial music or something. I thought it was like clang, clang, clang. He's like, yeah, it's like me fucking. What if I was like, wait, when I go to these sex parties, I have headphones and I'm listening to the Bechtel cast.

The horniest show in the world. Okay, wait. Keep summarizing. I'm going to just Google Leonardo DiCaprio headphones. Okay. Okay, so there's a whole Steve Madden thing. They make a bunch of money off of it. That's how we got on this tangent.

Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Meanwhile, the FBI has launched an investigation. Did you find something out? Yes. Okay. Okay, this is from The Mirror, so grain of salt. Leonardo DiCaprio uses headphones and vapes during sex.

What was the other thing? Vapes during sex. Okay. Okay. Yes. Tabloid articles are so impossible. Although the Oscar-winning actor, 47, had appeared in other blockbuster movies, such as What's Eating Gilbert Grape, and This Boy's Life as a Younger Teen, I'm like, I don't need to know how he became famous.

What's in the headphones? What's in the headphones,'s in the headphones folks okay he's keep keep going okay i'll i'll provide live updates okay okay meanwhile the fbi has launched an investigation of jordan and the company sorry update okay mgmt wow i feel tremendous relief just knowing the truth everyone was wrong the answer was shitty early 2010s music it was mg MGMT. He's listening to Time to Pretend while he's having sex. You know, walk home with that. Really

think about that. Wow. I don't know why. I do feel like a weight has been lifted from me. I mean, I'm glad that he doesn't listen to his monologues from titanic i guess i don't know and i'm also glad that he doesn't listen to pipes clanking like i for some reason thought he did mgmt i'm like oh so he's a fucking loser like that's no offense to mgmt it's just like a weird thing to listen to while fuck, you know, whatever. Whatever.

They had hits. Well, anyway. So the FBI has launched an investigation of the company. Kyle Chandler is leading it. Jordan meets with him to be like, teehee, I'm not doing anything illegal. But Chandler, no. Kyle Chandler is like coach. Friday Night Lights. Yes. Yes. He's like, these Friday nights areler is like coach. Friday Night Lights.

Yes, yes. He's like, these Friday nights are about to light. You better be careful. And he's like, okay, Titanic. And then the movie continues. Then Jordan goes to Switzerland to hide some money in a Swiss bank account. He uses Naomi's British Aunt Emma. Okay, she's awesome.

She's awesome and she plays a character in say it with me now, Paddington 2. Who is she in Paddington 2? Does she also almost fuck her niece's husband? No, but she is Phoenix Buchanan's agent. Oh, yes, I's agent oh that of course is the hugh grant character for

all of the paddington heads out there doesn't seem to be anyone here in the audience but the late show loves paddington okay so they move all this money into swiss bank accounts then we get the famous quaalude scene where Jordan and Donnie take some very rare, extra powerful 15 year old Quaaludes. They're crawling around. Jordan's crashing his car into everything. They're worried about

FBI has tapped their phones and Donnie's on the phone. It is so funny to me because I think that his performance is amazing and then whenever his choice is whenever he gets too high he starts to sound like cartman he's like the phone like he's like i can't do a cartman but he sounds like Cartman yeah he's like do you want cheesy poops too okay you do like I kind of forget I this is another DiCaprio being a fucking creep thing but there is like an uh a

clip I've seen many times where Leonardo DiCaprio for some reason can like summarize the entire first season of Euphoria on the red carpet and everyone was like wait why does he know that and then they're like because he dates 23 year olds he dates the target demographic for euphoria but he was like yeah you know euphoria i think when rue was rue was really going through it and you're like what the fuck is going on with him fucked uped up guy. He is. Truly. All right. So to avoid going to jail, he's about to cut a deal with the SEC,

which would require him to step down as head of his company. But then he's like, just kidding, bitch. I'm going to stay. I like that speech. He's like, I'm not leaving.

I'm not leaving. You're like, okay. And everyone's like, woohoo, we love our boss so much. love our boss and the lewd dudes were wild for that they loved it and this means that the feds start subpoenaing is that a word uh jordan and his colleagues but they're all very uncooperative jordan and donnie go to italy then on jordan's yacht but then they learn that aunt betty dies and the 20 million dollars in the swiss bank account that's under her name that money is now kind of like stuck there unless they get to switzerland immediately so they take the yacht through some treacherous seawater yeah iceberg coated i mean

waters hello we've got leo in the water nothing goes well and so things you know to be expected yes exactly the yacht capsizes they almost die and this is a wake-up call for jordan he realizes he needs to kind of straighten out his life yes because he's begging jonah hill to get lewds from the yacht basement and then jonah hill brings up i really like this jonah bring jonah hill brings up this like ziploc bag of wet lewds it's brutal and he's just like mainlining them as they're crashing into the ocean yeah uh so then he gets sober and he starts doing these like how to get rich seminars but the fbi eventually busts him there's this whole like benihana thing that i didn't really understand but everyone's basically ratting each other out there's a scene where

Naomi tells him that she's gonna leave him and take their kids there's a lot to unpack there but it all kind of culminates with Jordan ratting on his friends he goes to jail for a few years in like a white collar resort

prison and then the movie ends tennis jail. And then the movie ends. I think I said tennis jail is what I called it. Yeah. Yes. And then the movie ends with a cameo from the real Jordan Belfort introducing Leonardo DiCaprio, Jordan Belfort,

at a seminar in New Zealand where he's going to teach people how to sell pens or something. And they're bad at it. The end. Caitlin's're bad at it. The end. Caitlin's Famous Recap. Thank you. Thank you.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state.

And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project.

All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session. 24 hours. BPM 110, 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that?

You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing.

They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you ever wonder where your favorite foods come from? Like what's the history behind bacon-wrapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria. Hi, I'm Maite Gomez-Rejon. Our podcast, Hungry for History, is back. Season two. Season two.

Are we recording? Are we good? Oh, we push record, right? And this season, we're taking in a bigger bite out of the most delicious food and its history. Saying that the most popular cocktail is the margarita, followed by the mojito from Cuba, and the piña colada from Puerto Rico. So all of these...

We have, we think, Latin culture. There's a mention of blood sausage in Homer's Odyssey that dates back to the 9th century B.C. B.C.? I didn't realize how old the hot dog was. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. gosh three hour movie oh god i'm exhausted so where should we start oh my gosh well okay this is another one of martin scorsese or as i like to call him Marty Scores one of his movies

I thought it was hilarious when I wrote it down you wrote it down? yeah I did he tends to make movies well there's two movies in particular which we referenced it's about an kind of ordinary but ambitious

guy from New York he gets rich he builds an empire. He does a bunch of drugs. He cheats on his wife and then loses everything because he's doing a bunch of illegal stuff but he doesn't rot in jail because he's still rich and then

he also rats out all of his friends. This is the same plot for Wolf of Wall Street and Goodfellas. Except that, i don't think that the filmmaking and slash the movie of wolf of wall street is as critical of the horrible things that jordan belfort does in wolf of wall street as they are of the horrible things that henry hill does in goodfellas like i think that Martin Scorsese generally does a pretty good job of being like look how these men might seem really like cool and powerful at first because they have

money and drugs and access to women and all the things that like men are conditioned to think make them cool and powerful and like good at being a man but then as the story goes on we learn that oh they're actually horrible people they're greedy they're misogynist they're homophobic they're racist they're ableist all this you know the list goes on um and then after some combination of like male hubris and male fragility we see their empire and their lives like completely crumble around them right but it doesn't even i mean i think like the diff it's so frustrating because i feel like when we were talking about goodfellas on the matriarch we have matriarchs and we were talking about goodfellas uh six months or so ago a lot of the points we were talking about had to do with the fact that like with Scorsese movies and with a lot

of these movies that like feature these really like central toxic male characters that sometimes they are very good movies that are making good commentary but it's the audience takeaway and the fan culture that surrounds this movie that is genuinely doing its due diligence of making a point that it becomes this really complicated thing and so we both really love goodfellas and felt like we're like well this like there's a lot of fucking misogynist assholes who love goodfellas because they didn't hear what we heard from it and what it seems like and like scorsese has made points are the point of the movie but i can't I can't quite get there for this movie I don't see that same level of criticism or message and it feels connected to

the fact that Jordan Belfort is like involved in the production right because it feels to me it feels like the Wolf of Wall Street basically shares the same like disrespect and contempt for women that the characters do yeah because like the way the movie just generally treats women it's like set dressing they're naked all the time they're giving blow jobs there's uh you know the headless women of hollywood cinematography is like the way we see it's women most of the time on screen they're either they're nagging they're being withholding or conniving or spiteful often without context i mean with margaret like the most prominent woman we have in the movie our margaret robbie character like we meet her when she's like giving roadhead

you don't even see her face like it's ridiculous and then when you do see her it's shot like a commercial and i don't know i'm yeah like I would guess that the explanation that you would be given is like, well, we're seeing women like they do. But it's never meaningfully challenged. And it's not like I feel like the thing I love about Goodfellas is that you do get inside. You do get into the women's heads in multiple points you know how they're feeling even when they're being treated like shit which they were within the context of the movie and within the culture of the movie like you got a chance to understand how they were feeling and you got like whole scenes where they were responding to their treatment and you it's just like you just don't you get it a

little bit in this movie but it's far less and it just doesn't seem fair and i also think like casino is another kind of version of this narrative that i i like better i don't remember it at all so i can't speak to it incredible like but but you're right like there's a whole sequence in goodfellas and we're only talking about Goodfellas so much because of like the very obvious parallels between the two movies. And because again, like there's a whole sequence in Goodfellas where the point of view completely shifts from Henry Hill to Karen Hill.

Yeah. And we hear her voiceover and we hear her thoughts and feelings on what like her husband is doing. And that same perspective of like the naomi character is not afforded to her in wolf of wall street at all it just is mostly hyper sexualizing her hyper objectifying her we don't know all that much about her and her interests and stuff like that there are scenes where she stands up for herself and we know she's right like when she's accusing jordan of cheating on her we know she's right and she knows she's right like she's not made to be so like i at least i can't even say appreciate but like

when she is upset with him it's not like the movie is presenting her as unreasonable like we know that she's right i i so i would counter argue that to say that in that scene yes she's she's she's calling him out she's being like you're cheating on me and she is and she's absolutely right but then he kind of like gets the upper hand on her because she's doing that thing where she's like saying that she's going to withhold sex from him and she's like i'm gonna put my i'm gonna show you my puss all the time but you can't touch it i'm sorry i said all of that just now um yeah just add the why but there was no way to say puss i couldn't think of any better way to phrase it um so she's like here's my puss and but you don't touch it and it seems like wow this

is like she's like exercising autonomy and power over him but then he's like oh you think you're so clever well uh i actually have this hidden camera and the two guys named rocco who are my security guys never met and never come back yeah they're actually watching you right now and they can see your vulva and she's like oh no and then it kind of like the way the movie frames that it's it's almost like the you see the power dynamic shifting within that scene and then i feel like because she gets humiliated the movie almost frames that as like and she was wrong to try to withhold sex from this awesome guy. I disagree with that but I also like I don't know.

I think that the reason we're having this disagreement is because we're not given enough to make a meaningful decision. I feel like what we're getting with her character is we're getting hyper sexualization. We're getting and then we're

getting like small moments of clear domestic abuse and that is like and i and we're getting that verbally like to me that scene of like you're actually being surveilled and she gets upset and leaves like that's clear domestic abuse and i don't know like i feel like you everyone's going to apply their own lens onto that but there are moments where it's like she is trying to regain the upper hand and then she loses it because he has so much more than she does and it's she's like she's trapped there and it's infuriating to see her be trapped there and every time she tries to extract herself he throws whatever he can at her to make her stay and i i wish that there was care taken in that story because it feels very real the movie is not very interested in it

because the movie to an extent needs you to stay invested in him being cool um but i don't know i would i'm very like i can't really upset watching the scenes between them because it does seem like and i don't know like i i feel like these are like domestic violence depictions and like emotional coercion there's a scene towards the end where she is saying she doesn't want to have sex with him and then you know he's being like come on come on come on come on come on and then they do i think that that's a rape scene that the movie doesn't marital rape it realizes a rape scene though well the thing is like i don't think that the i i don't know what the movie thinks at a lot of points and it's big

and and that is that's bad if you don't know how the movie's stance on marital rape that's really bad uh i think that like in margot robbie's performance you can feel like that there is a lot of pain and frustration but that's not where the movie's interests lie which is frustrating because like we were saying there are scorsese movies about similar themes where that interest does exist and so i was curious i don't know like i i couldn't fully figure this out my my suspicion is that it has to do with jordan belfort right because this was based on his memoir also called the wolf of wall street and i know that like there there are a lot of opinions on this movie that is like this is like a takedown of the excesses of capitalism

all this shit you know there's a lot of quotes from dicaprio and scorsese to this effect but at the end of the day jordan belfort made a million dollars off of this movie existing he's in the movie he publicly likes the movie and you're like well then probably the movie's not accomplishing what it should have if he loves it yeah uh on the other hand naomi is based on his ex-wife his ex-wife nadine who also likes the movie uh she has an interesting second act if you're interested. She got remarried. She's been remarried happily for over 20 years. Amazing. Good for her. But her name's

Nadine Macaluso and she is now a TikTok therapist? Which is like wow okay. But she has seen the movie and has commented on it extensively on her therapy tiktok um but she also did enjoy the movie she said uh quote my ex-husband exploited our life in the way he wanted to and i'm using that engine to help people to empower them and

teach them and to break the stigma of mental health and that i don't know she she like met with margot robbie when margot robbie was preparing for the part felt like it was that the instances of domestic violence were shown authentically but the movie's attention did not stay with it and it's so frustrating because it's like, you know, that this director is capable of that, but he's not doing it here. Damn. Exactly. Shoot. Can we talk about Teresa really quick?

Sure, sure. I love her. Truly justice for Teresa. I love Teresa. I want the best for her. God, brunette wives are always getting divorced. It's just, it's not good i i felt like that that was more shrewd comment of like how horrible and um like completely vapid jordan was for sure is he's still alive and he's into crypto now just shocking no

one uh although wait you know it's the wildest thing i learned about him when i was researching He's still alive and he's into crypto now. Shocking no one. Although, wait. You know what's the wildest thing I learned about him when I was researching his life and times? I tried to listen to his audio book and then I quickly wanted to run into the ocean. So I didn't get very far. So when he went to tennis jail, his tennis jail cellmate was Tommy Chong.

And he and Tommy Chong are hanging out in tennis jail and Tommy Chong. And he and Tommy Chong are hanging out in tennis jail and Tommy Chong is like, you should write a book about this. And that's why we have Wolf of Wall Street. It's all Tommy Chong's fault. Isn't that weird? I don't have a strong I don't know anything about it. Whatever.

Anyways, that's why that is. But I don't know. I feel like it's very inherent to who jordan is and who to who leonardo dicaprio is to um view women as status symbols to the extent that this person who has stood by him through virtually everything he is so willing to discard her for something that for someone who he views as a status symbol and then he goes on to ruin her life because he is so willing to discard her for something that he for someone who he views as a status symbol and then he goes on to ruin her life because he is incapable of seeing women as people he also basically steals her idea to when he like reinvents the company to be like i'm gonna

target rich people and sell penny stocks to them that was her idea she could have been involved i mean i guess i'm not i'm like she should have been involved in his crimes yeah that's the option she should have girl bossed her way to hell as well um but yeah i don't know just to like close the loop on jordan i guess like this i think what the movie does well is that he is clearly this like portrait of like hyper masculine panic where everything he does is like please think about my my gigantic pp like it's so clearly entrenched in insecurity and a need to prove himself and he will hurt anyone including himself and I think that like the way that addiction is shown in this movie

is often played for laughs the lewd scenes they are funny and then also you're like this guy is suffering but he's like built himself up on this masculine platform where no one will say no to him

so I don't know i just the way that masculinity is shown in a lot of different insecure like i feel like you don't get a lot in the way of anything but white men in this movie for sure there's no way around that you do get i think the full gradient of uh white man insecurity and you get a lot of different shades of gray in terms of like, the way Jonah Hill is insecure about being married to his cousin is different than the way that Leonardo DiCaprio

kidnaps his own daughter. Yes. It's all very, very fucked up. But I don't know. You do get to see a lot of flavors of the worst man in the world it's true i mean and i think to the movie's credit it does yeah it shows many examples of like look how pathetic and embarrassing men yes yes yes it's like my favorite example of this is the first

time he has sex with naomi first of all he like goes to drop her off and his voiceover is like how do i get invited into her apartment oh my god i'm i don't know and then she's like do you want to come up for some tea and then he's like hot tea oh god and um and he goes up to her apartment and then she comes out and she's naked and he's like as you can imagine i fucked her brains out for 11 seconds you know and no shame in that if that's when you come kayla's standing here and they're steve madden shoes like i say that to all the people that i talk to at my sex parties and I say if you come after 11 seconds that's okay but uh but it's I think like that's to me like what Martin Scorsese does better than

almost any director is like show how embarrassing masculinity is to watch in practice like he is great at embarrassing some of our greatest movie stars like there's like i mean there's the whole thing and we'll talk about this in pickups but how like you know capitalism is a central cult and religion that this movie revolves around and it's like made so embarrassing by like the matthew mcconaughey like and then like yeah later on to carry me like you're just like this is so gross so embarrassing and then like some of the most privileged violent cruel people in the world are also just like you just like physically recoil watching them navigate the world. Yeah.

They're fucking gross. And he's really good at showing that. But unfortunately, in this movie, I feel like it's just where I've seen it argued that women are objectified beyond reproach in some of his movies. That actually kind of does feel true for this one. And I can't get my boy Marty out of this one. Like it's just really,

it's really bad for every woman in this movie, but you know, more to come. It's getting late. So let's have some fun. Let's do it. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now.

The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session, 24 hours. BPM 110, 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out?

I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams.

Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadiorapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria. Hi, I'm Maite Gomez-Rejon. Our podcast, Hungry for History, is back. Season two. Season two. Are we recording? Are we good? Oh, we push record, right? Okay.

And this season, we're taking in a bigger bite out of the most delicious food and its history. Saying that the most popular cocktail is the margarita, followed by the mojito from Cuba, and the piña colada from Puerto Rico. So all of these things. We thank Latin culture. There's a mention of blood sausage in Homer's Odyssey that dates back to the 9th century B.C.

B.C.? I didn't realize how old the hot dog was. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone. It's future Caitlin and future Jamie here coming in with those pickups that we promised. Ye freaking ha. And it was right here during the live show that we presented a supercut that I edited of Leonardo DiCaprio fully clothed in water.

Something that you may have also seen if you came to our titanic shows on the shrektanic tour it's an absolutely evergreen piece of media it's perfect thank you so much perfect vibe it's my pride and joy it's my magnum opus my mona lisa so but it didn't translate well to the audio medium of podcasting so instead we're jumping in here just to pick up with extra discussion we wanted to have that we didn't have time for in the live show. I do want to start by clarifying what I meant in that scene where Jordan and Naomi have sex for the first time. I don't want to sound like I am shaming anyone who experiences premature ejaculation or anything like that. What I was referring to was this sort of obsession with like,

male virility and stamina that many men use to sort of measure their masculinity or their quote unquote manhood. And certainly someone like Jordan Belfort would be concerned with that. People like this are like, oh, I can fuck for hours, blah, blah, blah. The same way that men like Jordan Belfort are obsessed with like dick measuring contests, either literal or figurative, like we were kind of alluding to that earlier in the episode. And it all stems from, you know, their interpretation and performance of masculinity, their kind of like idea of cultural markers of what makes a manly man. And so that's just what I was commenting on. I don't want to have that be misinterpreted as like any judgment passing

it's more just like these are the type of men who are obsessed with like these markers of masculinity well and for what it's worth I mean I think that that was clear and also that that ties into what we were talking about in the episode where Scorsese's movies are uniquely good at making this like versus you know the amount of time that you can last during sex being a reflection on who you are as just the idea that the masculine ideal is to be able to fuck for 45 hours in a row just like the absurdity of masculinity and how there is like this insecurity and ego that factors into so many of his characters and that's like very much present in Jordan which brings me to something that we referenced talking about in the episode that I just wanted to sort of put a little bow on. Which is something that I think this movie does very well.

Before we get to a few things that we didn't have time for that maybe did not do as well. I think that this movie does a good job in showing and portraying in a way that's like very funny and entertaining which it's a movie it should like showing capitalism as a death cult essentially and like not just a death cult but a really embarrassing death cult with rituals that are essentially really humiliating to watch we were talking about like the matthew mcconaughey beating his chest in the middle of like his liquid lunch they uh and and i and again i think that as we were discussing the tools and the ways that we are shown in the movie that capitalism is an embarrassing death cult for those at the top the way that we're shown it

is sometimes a little too tongue-in-cheek you know and takes advantage of making jokes at the expense of people struggling with addiction amongst many many many other things this movie makes light of a lot of things that i think that it makes total sense to not be okay with and not want to engage with the movie for that reason. But on a fundamental level, I do feel like this movie makes capitalism look embarrassing. And that's something that, you know, it shouldn't be a big ask from a movie. But you know, we see so many biopics, because at the end of the day like we were talking about i think one of the weaknesses of this movie is or like the the biggest weakness of this movie is that it is a biopic that involved the subject which almost never gives you a good biopic and i like this movie but i but you know the involvement of the person particularly when they are the villain of the movie is I just think it's

just like at odds with making a movie I would almost rather this movie have created a Jordan Belfort type character that wouldn't have required him being involved right whatever you know I understand why it there is you have the advantage of connecting it to a specific moment in history, and you get a lot of more cultural specificity by not having to yada yada. But the monkey paw of that is that you then have to have Jordan Pelford's consent, you have to involve him, you have to compensate him, and you have to have his approval on certain things, which means that you're not going to be able to have an adequate, you know, come to Jesus moment about anything about his life, including his involvement in

the capitalism death cult that was Wall Street at this time. All things considered, though, I do feel like it did better than your average movie. It's a Martin Scorsese movie. He's really good at that. And so a tepid thumbs up to that, I think. Right. I was thinking about how a movie that might be either an interesting companion piece to Wolf of Wall Street or just a movie that you might want to watch instead that

kind of takes place in a similar world, but focuses on a different set of people who sort of occupy this world is Hustlers, which we've also covered on the show. Totally. Because, you know, one of our gripes that we discussed during the live show portion of this is that this movie fails to give any kind of interiority to any of the women especially Naomi that would be the character that would make most sense or Teresa even too yeah I mean I think both of them are made out to be you know it's like a almost not not a madonna horror complex explicitly like there is more nuance to their story than that but like the scorned and the homewrecker you know and both just as people who were married to this guy and what their experience was like and you can criticize wealthy white women and their complicity in capitalism and

stuff like that. But I also, if you're gonna make this movie, I would have liked to see more about who these characters are, how they are affected by the rampant toxic masculinity that surrounds them. But the movie, again, as we've discussed, doesn't really have much interest in that. So anyway, watch Hustlers is what I'm saying. I wanted to talk a little bit about just some of the other women who we see on the screen. Yes. green yes in a vaguely significant way it's not many of them but um i wanted to mention the sales assistant daniel harrison at stratton oakmont she's the person who agrees to have her head shaved for ten thousand dollars and then has also agreed to use that money for breast implants

number one she's the baldest woman in charge, except that she is not in charge. No, God, I wish. Two, I was like, okay, can we learn anything else about her? She's really only in that one scene. And I was curious, like, okay, was this a case of a woman doing whatever she felt she needed to do to be respected by the men around her because

sacrifices like that especially in this era of women in the workplace that was often the only way to survive in the workplace as a woman in a you know predominantly male space and you know i could see something like that motivating her choices to have her head shaved and make that choice. But the movie doesn't have any interest in exploring her motivation in that situation. Right. And again, it could have been like another way to criticize the capitalist machine that this movie criticizes otherwise. But I don't know, just it felt like a missed opportunity to me. I would have liked to have a

little bit more insight there I agree again just knowing that Scorsese has like I think with some directors you sort of have the like well but that would never happen but with with Scorsese you know that it can and has happened you know and that he also has a knack for, I wouldn't say he's the best at it, but has a knack for and an instinct to include people who are swept up in this fucking nightmare. And you're, you're totally right. That is like a great end to discuss, like attempting to survive in that environment as a woman. And especially, you know, there's a million examples of this in, you know, girl boss culture at large, right? But of, you know, the humiliations and extreme moral compromises one

has to make to be able to participate as a woman. And then also the moral compromises you make on the other end of dismissing people and dismissing marginal people more marginalized than yourself and dismissing people exactly like yourself in order to continue to like participate in this fucked up so yeah there this movie feels littered with interesting opportunities to explore characters that are going through arguably a more complicated you know moral dilemma than any of the men in this movie are i feel like another example of that is aunt emma who we didn't really have time to get into in this movie what did you think of aunt emma what did you make

of of her i don't know i was too distracted by the fact that that actor is in Paddington too. But yes, I don't know. I'd like to me the most memorable scene is when they're sitting on the park bench together on Emma and Jordan Belfort. And he's like, oh my God, is she hitting on me? Like the language she's using. She seems like she's coming on to me. And then it's obviously him misinterpreting the situation the way that men often misinterpret sexual interest then he starts to come on to her and then you get her voice over to be like oh my

god is he hitting on me and i thought it was like an interesting and like decent demonstration of like a man who is so entitled assuming things kind of based on nothing and then like the sort of thought process that yeah the recipient of that has to go through and then you know you see her being like um no thanks please don't kiss me because he he tries to surprise kiss her and then why does he she's like don't do that though and uh yeah i thought that scene was handled pretty well but other than that i mean we don't really get much of that character no so i don't know what do you think yeah i i thought again like there are missed opportunities i i don't expect the movie to like pivot to be like what is going on with aunt emma because but i think that's another example of a character who is knowingly complicit and a lot and still treated in this very both misogynist and

ageist way and that that is an opportunity to explore this character but but like we were saying and it is hard to not compare this to scorsese's other movies because there is this through line of like how masculinity is embarrassing and ruining your life again we're we're good fellas stands over here. And I guess it's just hard to not get past the pivot to Karen's perspective because it just makes you want that level of care put into all of these. I don't object to Scorsese's clear affinity for wanting to examine these nucleuses of male power. But there are examples of him having care for people who exist within that little bubble in complicated ways.

And this movie is just like not a great example of it. Yeah, Aunt Emma, I think, again, it's just ultimately a missed opportunity. I think it's a great performance. it. Yeah, Aunt Emma, I think, again, is just ultimately a missed opportunity. I think it's a great performance, but I feel like her character is almost used as a way to show how Jordan is embarrassing versus actually fleshing out her character, which is a shame because we're given a lot of interesting like nuggets. Right.

So yeah. Yeah, I felt kind of the same way about the character who I think is Donnie's his wife, Hildy, but every time she's on screen, I'm like, I think that's the same woman we've seen before. And I think that's Donnie's his wife but i'm not totally sure because she's never given anything memorable enough to say or do when she does show up that you know who that character is exactly same goes for chantal who wait i don't even know who is she is the uh swiss woman oh yeah that like they tape but again it's like good performance a funny beat i don't expect the movie to like pivot to her but like she is a body and a plot point and that's it right the way that every sex worker in this movie is not even a plot point just set dressing right for sure and i was also upon my rewatch to like do these pickups i was especially noticing how there is

almost no woman on screen in the entire movie who jordan especially but you can extend that to pretty much all the male characters, that that woman is not sexually harassed or assaulted in some way. Or just shown, and I want to like carefully phrase this because I'm not like, every woman needs to be wearing clothes. But most women are not wearing clothes. Most men are. True. We'll say it like that there is yeah it is a clear again it's just like and i know we were talking about this extensively in

the live show but the fact that this movie has the same cinematographer as barbie is just like wow the range you really can respect women or not uh it is it's interesting i mean yeah i i guess ultimately with this movie i am grateful that it was in the hands of a good director because in the hands of a bad director i think everything we'd be talking about would be 10 times worse definitely but i would also love to see the wolf of wall street directed by i mean this is something that oh i may i i know someone is gonna send us a message being like this movie but i i don't feel like there are movies of this budget and this cast that are this critical of capitalism directed by women like i would love to see a big budget critique of capitalism with a director who is not a white guy anyway i

mean right sorry to bother you comes to mind in terms of like a a more star-studded cast of movie that did very well very critically successful but i'm just like where is the big budget woman's critique of capitalism if it was barbie i'm not pleased that's yeah that was not critiquing capitalism at all it's ip the closest thing i can think of is not a dissimilar movie to the wolf of wall street but american psycho right directed by a woman you know could be more critical of capitalism i suppose but i mean not a bad start i guess i was just thinking like ground up, not adapted from a man's book. Like, is there a ground up? I mean, but also, I mean, I don't know.

Whatever. I'm just talking speculatively now. But I think Scorsese is really good with this specific material. stumbling blocks feel like they come from are either his personal inability to understand the nuanced spots of this movie and and something that we haven't talked about yet or or didn't touch on extensively in the live show which is the you know tremendous amount of casual racism casual ableism oh yeah stuff that casual homophobia you name it everything you name a marginalized identity this movie is making a joke of it and on one hand i don't feel that the movie is endorsing any of these views and that i would guess the intention is to demonstrate how tremendously callous and hateful the people who are in the plot which this movie again just fails to do on a

huge scale i agree where there are many scenes where slurs are being thrown around and i want to kind of zero in on one in particular in a moment but there's so many scenes where jordan belfort and his minions okay he's the grew obviously kevin innocent kevin was working for like ronald reagan or whoever at this time oh god that's even worse i know but he was the most evil one that's true anyway you know jordan and his guys are being so casually, again, misogynist, racist, homophobic, ableist, hateful of sex workers, you know, everything in a way that is presented to me too neutrally in many cases, where I'm just like, again, the movie isn't necessarily endorsing or agreeing with these horrible views that they have, but it's also not criticizing them quite enough. Yeah, the scene I want to zero in on is the scene where Jordan and

his boys are talking about little people. They are speaking about them as if little people are not even human. The language they are using, the like pronouns they're using to refer to little people is so dehumanizing. It's a really long scene too. And I'd imagine that the intention of this scene is to demonstrate how horrible these Wall Street guys are. But it's also a scene that if you're like a 19-year-old dude bro, like you're probably watching it and laughing along with them. And like the movie is giving you no perspective or any kind of tools to examine, oh, maybe what they're saying is wrong i guess so i just it's so tricky in that situation because i think that like i've i've struggled with this as a show as the show goes

on because i don't necessarily think it is the job of the director to tell you this is the right view versus this is the wrong view sure to speak to your part like it's it's a matter of showing without telling and i feel like they're one of the first roles of screenwriting obviously exactly exactly but like when we started the show in the mid-2010s like there was more of a demand to be explicitly told this is wrong in a way that does stifle creativity and coherent storytelling sure but to speak to your part because i agree with you is like it is not shown adequately like i'm not necessarily asking to be told that jordan belfort is wrong to be racist and ableist like i trust the audience enough

to know that but what you need to be doing and again i you can argue what happens in this movie because things don't end well for jordan belfort right you know he ends up humiliated it reminds me actually a lot of of tar almost 10 years later of like you know how they are just holding on because they have all of these benefits of whiteness and money and reputation and power and all this stuff but they are significantly diminished right but again it's like if we're pitting this with goodfellas i feel like that that movie shows the consequence of those prejudices and the effect of that on other people in a way that this movie doesn't for most because this movie is cast such a wide net and i'm guessing that that that this comes from the source material of just jordan belfort being the most tremendous piece of shit you can imagine and the movie doesn't make doesn't even create a

moment for the little people that they are repeatedly making light of and dehumanizing for the racist comments they're making because you don't get any moments with the characters that are being humiliated and spoken down to yeah like it does end up not being adequately critical of of what the character is saying right because in an earlier scene one that like i think might open the movie or like it's toward the beginning they're doing the thing that they had been planning in that later scene about basically like catapulting little people onto a target and that's the only representation of little people we see in the entire movie there's no characterization given to the little people that you do see on screen for very brief blips it was just a really gross way to handle that.

And then, I mean, there's also that ableist tirade that Donnie goes on where he's talking about what he would do if his children were disabled. And he's throwing around slurs. Presented completely uncritically. Right. And we hate Donnie. But I mean, it's the same thing with any of these and this is it brings me back to like the social network another movie that i like but when you are applying real name evil people to this and presenting them in a remotely like i feel like it is it doubles down your responsibility as an artist to demonstrate

that these people are pieces of shit because it's not like you can be like well it's a fictional cat like they're real they exist they are alive and you have cast a charming actor to play them and so it is on you to show the consequences of this trim and and again it's like the way you can best show that consequence is by giving voice and humanity to the people that you're marginalizing which this movie doesn't right so that is peepee poo poo i didn't have a whole lot else to say that we haven't already talked about um do you have anything else no i i think ultimately we'll talk about this in the conclusion but this movie is just like i really liked it when i first saw it and then i saw other martin scorsese movies that are doing the same thing better. And now I would say it is on my lower ranking of Scorsese movies and just critique of capitalism movies. Because it makes a lot of it feels like rookie mistakes.

And I would guess that that has to do with the involvement of the subject. Yeah. has to do with the involvement of the subject yeah never involve the villain of your movie as a paid employee of the movie seems to be a no-brainer but for whatever reason didn't happen here we don't talk about this in the show we are honestly unsure if this movie passes the Bechdel test or not it seems to in my notes I mean it seems to have like casually passed but yeah I'm sure there's an exchange between like Naomi and Hilde which is the name of Donnie's his wife because there are some scenes where they interact I think but again like in this three-hour movie there are women interacting for maybe a cumulative 90 seconds or something like barely anything at all maybe there's a scene where Naomi talks to her aunt Emma at the wedding

or something but it's basically nothing. Even if there might be a quick technical pass, I would say spiritually this movie does not pass at all. Nowhere near. Nowhere near. And so on that note, we will toss you back to our live show. Yes, we will pick up right as we are about to do the famous Bechtelkast nipple scale where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. And I'll give the movie a dot dot dot one nipple for its examination of toxic male behavior and not being afraid to show the type of men that society puts on a pedestal.

Like, oh my god, they're so successful. They're self-made. They're millionaires. Look how cool. And they have all these cars. And they have so much sex with women aren't they so cool and wait boat and and and not to mention boat not to mention boat and who cares if the boat crashes because of just get more boats right so i appreciate that the movie is willing

to be like actually people like that can be huge losers um however as we've discussed it kind of has no interest in how that toxic male behavior affects women and that's usually who is victimized by that behavior the most so it is curious why the movie wouldn't examine it more but also as we've speculated it's probably because jordan belfort kind of like seems like he i don't know if he signed off on it but they were like do you want to be in the movie and he's like yeah yeah and he also god he's just like truly a scammer for as long as he lives because he was saying because in the movie it's like he owes all of these people particularly from the penny stocks he owes a lot of vulnerable people money

and so when his memoir started doing well he's like i'm gonna give all of my royalties to the people i've wronged of course he did not do that no like jordan belfort gave 12 dollars to someone once and meanwhile he's fucking chilling so i'm yeah yeah so uh he sucks and he's a loser wow brave of me to say god is that god is that but yeah the movie has no interest in women or how they feel about we're intersectionality at all yes so uh yeah i'm gonna go one nipple and i'll give it to theresa justice for theresa you're not a stock boy you're a stock broker wow poetry and that was the beginning of the end uh yeah i will go i'll go one nipple as well i i think that this movie like does to some extent, I don't know.

It brings me back to conversations we've had about good fellas as well as about, I think about our episode on the social network where it's like, are we seeing this real life? Very, very wealthy person. And a lot of the movie we're seeing them as like, cool.

And does the movie end well for fictional Mark Zuckerberg? Does the movie end well for fictional mark zuckerberg does the movie end well for fictional jordan belfort no but the takeaway from the majority of people is that it was cool to watch including me when i'm watching it like and it's like i you know i think there should be a feminist militia in the woods and i am like i like this movie it's so it's like a little scary like yeah yeah i i don't know what to make of it i had a really difficult time uh putting my thoughts together to talk about it in this context i mean in in a uh basic way it's obviously an extreme it's a movie that is very invested in the patriarchal capitalistic interests of very

wealthy white men and so that is mostly who we're seeing. We're seeing them abuse a tremendous amount of women and we're seeing them from their perspective so it is just like the camera and the story has basically no interest in women. Unless they're naked. Unless they're naked. I'm kidding.

I'm not. Okay Steve Madden shoes. Easy. This is how I behave when I go to sex parties clumping up just a horny little devil um I'm walking yeah I'm meanwhile I'm walking the streets at night in my Crocs listening to audio books about the economy. Wow. Yeah, I'm going to give it one nipple. This movie does

not do much in the way of anything we talk about. But it has its moments and it is like trying to do some stuff, but it's just not doing as well as a lot of movies trying to do the same things are. True. Including a lot of Martin Scorsese's movies. So, I'll give it one nipple and I'm going to give it to Mag do the same things are. True. Including a lot of Martin Scorsese's movies. So

I'll give it one nipple and I'm going to give it to Mago Roby. Yay. Yeah, love her. And I was like at very least if this movie launched her career then I'll take it. True. She's great. It's true. Well, friends that's our show, I think.

It simply is our show. Wow. I think we did it thank you for coming there you have it listeners that's our wolf of wall street episode thank you once again for everyone who came to the live show in sacramento thanks again to stab comedy theater for having us and um jamie y'all hey sell me this matreon subscription well caitlin i'm glad to do so for five dollars a month you can get access to our matreon aka patreon i usually do it in the reverse but not today uh it's patreon.com slash bechtelcast, where every month Caitlin and I cover two bonus episodes, just the two of us on a theme, usually of our listeners voting.

It's really fun. This month we are covering action movies directed by women that were voted on by our listeners. We're covering Tank Girl, and because her web certainly connects them all, Madam Web. Blame the subscribers. If you have an issue, then you have

to subscribe. Yeah, cast your vote. It's an election year. This is the only fun election you can participate in this year if you live in the US. But yeah, please subscribe. It's really, really fun, and it helps support the show.

We really appreciate it. And not only do you get access to new episodes, you get access to a backlog of over 150 past episodes because we've had this going since 2017. Get in there. That was such a good sales pitch, Jamie. Get in there. Fine was such a good sales pitch, Jamie. Get in there. I'll subscribe.

Okay, I'll do it. Thank you. Wow. You're a regular Jordan Belfort. Thank you so much. Now, let me sell you our merch, shall I? Yes. Well, first of all, all you got to do is go to tpublic.com slash the Bechtel cast.

So simple, so easy. And then you just find the designs that a one Jamie Loftus designed. Bam, bam, bam. And so, you know, you're supporting Jamie's art. Okay, hello. Yeah. And then there's t-shirts, there's pillows, there's mugs, there's stickers, all kinds of stuff that you need and you want. So treat yourself and do it.

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The Bechdel cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskrosensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus. And a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, by Catherine Voskrosensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus. And a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree.com. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed

the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years.

I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister, or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams.

Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jacob Goldstein. I used to host Planet Money. Now, I'm starting a new show. It's called What's Your Problem? Every week on What's Your Problem, entrepreneurs and engineers describe the future they're going to build, once they solve a few problems. Thank you.