The Besties - The Besties Podcast 48 - Tomb Raider and SimCity

Episode Date: March 8, 2013

Two big games, including one that works! This week on The Besties, Chris Plante is galavanting out in Japan for work (probably), so we've gone and found his temporary replacement: the incomparable Phil Kollar. Phil authored the Polygon review of Tomb Raider, so who better to detail the highs and lows of Lara's latest adventure. Speaking of Lara, one of her relatives calls in to discuss some qualms he has with her renewed success. And lastly, there's SimCity. Not a whole lot to say on that one. Pretty much controversy-free, that game. 04:00 - Tomb Raider 22:00 - Half Time 28:00 - SimCity 49:00 - What's next? Theme song by Ian Dorsch Get the show: Download MP3" Subscribe to the podcast (RSS) Subscribe on iTunes Get the full list of games (and other stuff) discussed at www.besties.fan. Want more episodes? Join us at patreon.com/thebesties for three bonus episodes each month!

Oh, no, I had a lot of fun, actually. I mean, it's hard to look not uncomfortable at a huge gaming event because there's tons of people and you're tired. That's where I thrive, actually, is in that environment. Yeah. Because you just look around and it's just 10,000 friends you haven't made yet. That's true. That can't speak my language.

Well, I mean, it's definitely a barrier, but friendship can break through that barrier. Yeah, they also didn't appreciate me hugging them whenever I would hug them. I don't think that's a cultural thing that they like. You give damp hugs, though, is the problem. Just only in the chest and armpit and rear area. And your thighs.

And the thighs, true, as well as the thighs but you know it's how i show how i'm feeling this soup is fucking flavorful My name is Justin McElroy, and I know the best game of the week. My name... Are you on Fast Forward? I'm on Cheetah Speed. My name is Griffin McElroy, and I'm on cheetah speed. My name is Griffin McElroy. And I'm on llama speed. My name is Will Strachan.

I know best game of the week. My name is Phil Kohler. Is this a thing we do? I don't. What is this? It's nice that you've ever listened. It's nice that you've ever. Can we.

Before we get into this. There's two things I want to say. The first thing is that I'm really honored to be here. I really appreciate you guys inviting me. He's such a big fan, guys. I've been a big fan for a long time. I've been listening to every episode. In a lot of ways, you guys are what inspire me to do the work that I do, to write the reviews that I write.

To just live your life. To live the life that I do, to write the reviews that I write. To just like live your life. To live the life that I live. Yeah. You guys really, you're my muse. The second thing I wanted to say before we start is, you know, maybe before we get into this, we should just take it back a little bit. Maybe go back to the start and answer the question, what is the besties? Let's pretend.

You know what? This is a good opportunity. Let's pretend obviously Phil listens to every show twice, but let's pretend Phil has never listened to the show and explained what we do here. Every week we look at the hottest, latest, greatest games and we talk about them and explore them and investigate them

and put them on and wear them and snuggle in them together? There used to be many, many more rules. But we discovered through a process of careful examination and thoughtful, philosophical consideration that they were

horse shit. Now we don't do that anymore. So basically, Philil to answer your question basically every other podcast ever that you've ever listened to just and just to clarify not really my question i knew that it's right it's for the listener it's for because there might be somebody jumping in the middle and they don't know like do i need to go back to the beginning and get the story um you know find out what's happened so far a good point you mentioned that

phil because you should absolutely stop listening right now and go back to the beginning because what we've essentially created is game of thrones but in podcast style and if you are not listening you haven't been listening from the beginning you will have no idea literally what is going on there were there's probably like a two episode arc in there where if you missed it and came back you'd be like what happened to all the rules? This is not the same radio program. It's complex. There's a lot of characters. A lot of intertwining characters.

And now you guys are introducing a new one in the form of me, Phil Kohler. With Chris as the pan, you're filling in. Yes. That's right. Nicely done, sir. Let's talk about our first game this week, which is Tomb Raider? Sure.

Okay. Phil, you did the review for Tomb Raider. How the fuck is that? I did. How's that going? It's really good. I really like that game an awful lot. And I was not sure what to expect going in, which probably helps me like it more because

I just didn't know what I was getting into. Wasn't sure if it was actually going to be good. And it turns out it's awesome. Have you guys played this at all? No. I'm so thrilled to hear that. Griffin, I think you're the only one that hasn't. Oh, okay. Sorry, I didn't mean to speak for the group.

I just assumed that everybody else was busy playing the refreshing the SimCity server game. More on that later. No, I haven't played it, but I'm thrilled to death that it is Everybody else was busy playing the refreshing the SimCity server game. More on that later. No, I haven't played it, but I'm thrilled to death that it is good. I've been very interested in the teasers and the trailers and the screen grabs. It all looks phenomenal. Phil, if someone has only played old Tomb raider games sure what's what's what's new here what's on tap i only played tomb raider 3 that's the only one i like two a lot okay two and

three are amongst the best of the old ones uh the the big difference i think um and you know a lot of people have been comparing it to uncharted and I think where that comparison comes in is it's very cinematic. It's got a more realistic look to it. Just the style is generally a little bit more based around realism, and it looks really, really good also.

But the biggest change, I think, from previous Tomb Raiders is there's a lot less tomb raiding. There's not so much... I would disagree with that. I would say that there are nine tombs to raid in total there are there are nine in total they're pretty short though they're all like the tombs in the game are like basically little side missions um that are totally optional and are just basically one room puzzles yeah let me ask you something i like like them, but serious question, Phil. Yeah. How many tombs have you made?

And why do you feel like you are in a position to critique other people's tombs? Uh, you know, it's, it's not how many I've made, but in my life, I've rated a lot of tombs. Yeah.

And I feel like he's got a lot of dead pet birds in his backyard. Does that count? Is that technically a tomb? It should, I feel like. There's a lot of things entombed in the backyard. I feel like that's the operative verb. Yes. No, I mean, I think this is just a big deal for some people who really like the old style of Tomb Raider is that the

situations that you're encountering in general in this new Tomb Raider are a little bit less like crazy puzzles the way that they were in some of the older Tomb Raider games. T-Rexes. Slightly fewer.

I'd go to say that there are no T-Rexes in this game. Did you 100% the game? Uh-oh. I'm sad to admit that I did. Hidden dinos. I am not proud of that, but yes, I did. I'll tell you what I really liked about this,

and I've played, I don't know, call it four or five hours. What I really like is how many sort of... There are several different fully functional gameplay loops in Tomb Raider. Like there's the navigating, traversing the environment. There are some cinematic escapes where you're trying to avoid things. There's a lot of like almost sort of puzzle-esque, like, you know, there's a spot you need to get to, but you don't know how to get there. And, uh, some gunplay and, and it really, it does a really good job of circulating between these loops and they're so enjoyable and

it circulates so well that like, I found myself sort of wanting, you know, looking forward to the next time it would switch because I would be playing a traversal for a while and think, oh man, I'm itching for a gunfight. Does it do that a little bit better than Uncharted? Because as much as I love the Uncharted franchise, so many of the gunfights, even in Uncharted 2, which I think is still the best one,

so many of those gunfights and so many of those traversal segments get so long in the tooth. The 10-minute-long gun battles just become a war of attrition at some point. Yeah, I was actually going to mention here to throw in, I specifically think Tomb Raider does it better than the Uncharted games. games um the the like justin said it's always these sections last just long enough that you're enjoying them but they don't get uh it doesn't get to be too much and that goes for for the the platforming sections and i think it goes for the gunplay sections as well as there's always like there's enough length and you're fighting through enough enemies and there's enough going on um enough variances on the the layout and and the situation that it keeps you engaged with it, but then it doesn't hold you for too long and then gives you something different to do.

Yeah, the other thing I like about it is that the climbing, which was never a thing that I really thought about before, now that I think about Unchartedarted the climbing always felt weirdly automatic or you just hit x a bunch and he would like monkey hop his way up a cliff and for whatever reason the climbing in tomb raider feels a little more uh like visceral and obvious like you feel like you have more control over it and a lot of that's the animation a lot of that's like button cues where like if you miss a jump you have to quickly quickly hit x to like grab onto the ledge um one thing that i mentioned in the review that's sort of building off that and i agree with your point there is um like lara

doesn't magnetize to ledges the way that some some platformers nowadays kind of like um in order to make platforming in a game easier the character just kind of will magnetize to a ledge when you're close enough. I feel like the game has a little bit more confidence in its control and in its players than to do that. And also, there are little, like you said, the animation. The animation specifically doesn't take priority over the movement. So you can have Laura jump,

and then you still have control over her in midair. So even though it doesn't look realistic, and maybe the animation doesn't look perfect, you're able to change her direction in midair. And like you said, it makes you feel a lot more in control of the platforming. And I think it opens you up to experimentation a lot, too. Because way more than in an Uncharted game, i would look at a ledge a long way away and think um i don't know maybe i can make this jump laura's got crazy crazy hops i bet i can make it and that kind of experimentation is encouraged rather than like in a game like uncharted if you missed a jump like that a lot of times you'd feel like ugh you know i i'm being penalized

and i've got to go all the way back and start all that over. And I also, speaking of comparing these two, I think that there's a lot more flexibility with different routes you can take to the same objective. It never feels hand-holdy in Tomb Raider. It feels very much like, well, I don't know, maybe this would work. I'm going to give it a shot. very much like, well, I don't know, maybe this would work. I'm going to give it a shot.

And in Uncharted games, it often feels like there is a path you take to get to the thing. I'm surprised to hear you say that, because all that I've seen from the game is like Laura creeping along a narrow cliff path. Like, it could not seem more linear from the way that they've advertised it. No, the way it it works the way they lay out the game is uh it's sort of like it's not quite hub and spoke because you're not really you're usually going in like what is essentially a giant circle but throughout that circle there'll be more linear sections uh and then there'll be like huge open wide open spaces that'll have like tons of collectibles and like alternate ways to go

and more often than not it feels like you're in those wide open spaces rather than in um the more narrow linear areas i think maybe i just thought that because they put such an emphasis on like metroidvania style gear gating does that ever get does that ever get annoying because like even in like two minute long trailers they've shown off they're like you can't get to this area until you get the flaming rope and it's like yeah fuck i kind of love that stuff i guess i don't know if i'm alone on that but i like love the metroidvania symphony of the night format of uh you know getting new gear to access other things it's not as extreme as you think like most

of the stuff that you could go back and get is totally optional uh it's it's rare that you're like going back to an area just because you got some new equipment um honestly i would have liked to see more of it because it does feel like once you know you're just progressing relatively linear through these different maps and you can go back but it really isn does feel like you're just progressing relatively linear through these different maps and you can go back but it really isn't necessary. Unless you're really scouring on your first playthrough you're going to miss a lot of stuff.

So there's usually enough reason to go back and sort of go through an area. My problem with the Metroidvania aspect of it was I don't think that and boy by the way that is a dumb word so if anybody can maybe come up with something better my big non-linear action adventure puzzle dynamic except i mean it is it is super linear like saying you can't go through this i

mean i guess not by the very definition of the word but it's not as linear as like uncharted no it's not even like levels like you can travel back at any point and right go through an area again and just you know discover new paths to go um but it's not skyrim either like no no it's it's in between those two my problem actually is that i thought it didn't do a good enough job of or at least so far hasn't done a good job of communicating, like, uh, when you can, when there is another path that you could go on. Um, a lot of times I would find myself going back to an area thinking like, okay, I got rope arrows now, so I'm going to go back and see what I can do there. Um, and I'd find myself sort of struggling to get to a point and realize that what I'd actually done is gone backwards, like the way I came into it. So the path is sometimes unclear when you're – at least for me.

It's a map. No, no, no. I don't just mean that. Well, the map's very circular and there's obviously verticality to consider. So a lot of times it's not really clear how you get from a to b um and and sometimes like you'll find yourself trying to get to an area with one one of your new collectibles or whatever trying to get to an area that you will actually just naturally come to later um but you but i would i found myself struggling for like 20 minutes trying to get to a place

because I thought there would have to be some way to figure out how to get to this spot and as it turned out I just needed to keep playing and I ended up there just sort of by happenstance. Yeah. One thing that Crystal Dynamics and Square Enix has kind of pushed with the game is that it's a reboot for Tomb Raider,

and it's kind of a new origin story explaining how Lara Croft becomes the crazy adventurer that she is. How do you guys feel about the way the story is handled? Okay, this is actually one thing I feel very strongly about, and I'm not going gonna spoil it per se but I am gonna say so when the game started I mean we were talking earlier about like oh it's more realistic the look of it and all that stuff and in the back of my head I'm thinking like oh there's this cool island maybe this is gonna be the story of lost that lost wasn't like lost sorry ended up copping out and was essentially like oh it's magic

you just didn't get it didn't get it ross oh really the polar bear was his dad oh shit oh okay when he was when you go back and watch it from the beginning with that in mind the polar bear being his dad it makes a lot more sense well i apologize have you tried a second run through yet with the polar bear dad theory firmly in mind i'm going to now but i so i apologize damien cruz and damon lindelof i'm sorry uh i do want to say for tomb raider i was kind of hoping that it would follow that method of like a polar bear dad method no a more realistic like grounded we could sort of maybe quasi explain what's going on with science uh and that goes out the window pretty damn fast i wouldn't i would say so i wouldn't say it goes out the window fast

i think uh within the first five hours. I think they... Okay, I agree with you. You see monsters, effectively. Yeah, kind of. I agree with you that there are definitely supernatural elements, and that I would have been pretty happy if those hadn't been in the game at all. But I do like that the game does a very good job of,

until the last act, keeping those very much in the background and like hinting at them but never fully giving in to like letting you know what's happening yeah but that's uncharted's mo like uncharted does that for every game where it's like all realistic realistic and then at the end deus ex machina it's a magic turtle that knows how to travel through time but uncharted yeah that was a weird plot twist for that last uncharted game uh but uncharted i think the difference with with uncharted is just that uh they don't do build up the way that tomb raider does they don't like tomb raider spends a lot of time building the atmosphere and like just dropping these little subtle hints of like there's something creepy and um uh paranormal going on here but you don't quite get

a sense of what it is whereas uncharted i feel like it's more of like like you said it's it's totally normal totally normal totally normal bam supernatural yeah yeah i i would i would say it does do that better to the point where i was actually interested in the story and like listening to all the collectible books and stuff but I was just sort of let down at the end. One time I was working at I worked at Blockbuster for nine months twice and

I was working at the register and this old old woman comes up to the counter with the VHS copy of Hush I don't know if you remember this film with Gwyneth Paltrow and somebody else. Jessica Tandy? Will Smith? Is that the Will Smith movie?

No, no, no. Where he's like a dating expert? That's Hush. Oh. So this is Hush, and this woman brings the tape up to me, and she says, excuse me. I say, yes, ma'am. She says, I was hoping you could tell me if this movie has a supernatural ending.

I want to party with her. And that's like, I just love the idea that this woman, like, last night she watched a movie where it was like, oh, ghosts again. I'm through with this. I need to know up front if I'm going to get into some supernatural shenanigans. Were you able to tell it? No, I said, it's $2.99. Rent it and let me know. So I can go forth and let the masses know.

Yeah, I'll pass that one along. Let me bless and multiply this knowledge. I said, just wait. This is Blockbuster, so just stand there for a second and this place will close. this is blockbuster so just stand there for a second and this place will close so uh we we've spent a lot of time talking about the the the single player portion of tomb raider but we should probably spend some time with what really matters what do you guys think about that multiplayer can you do it in like three minutes unlike anyone who bought the game let's spend some time on multiplayer i i actually played uh a good hour of it and it's it's not terrible

like i've played far worse multiplayer modes it's just so clearly multiple steps down from the quality of the single player that's that's the thing that's depressing about it to me yeah it's not even bad it's just it's just it's like a seven a six or a seven multiplayer mode tied into a nine a campaign yeah just it's weird what's crazy to me is how many reviews i saw of people saying i feel like we've had this argument so many times saying like shitty multiplayer drags down tomb raider and it's like i don't i don't know that i can yeah i don't know it's like I don't know that I can I don't know it's like you got a car for your birthday

and then the car had shitty mats at the bottom to protect your feet and then you give the car a negative review because of it I understand if you're like if you're evaluating the product at large saying there are parts of this product that are deficient.

I don't think that that should be the thesis of the whatever. I guess speaking from my review perspective, my perspective of writing the Tomb Raider review and working in the review section on Polygon,

I specifically talked to Arthur about it. I just did a sidebar on multiplayer because it didn't really uh play into my overall opinions very much and i sort of asked arthur like the multiplayer isn't great it doesn't it doesn't really add anything but it doesn't take anything away from the game you know should that affect the overall you know the overall score or the overall tone of the review very much and we came to the kind of decision that it shouldn't i think that there can be cases where it is so bad that it would do that but i think nine times out of ten whenever you shoehorn like dead space 2 whenever you shoehorn a

multiplayer thing in it's just kind of benign it's just kind of it just kind of sits there you know doesn't yeah it's neither here nor there yeah um sweet what do you hear that do you hear that oh my god what could that be it's weird guys my phone is ringing the ringtones don't usually go one that transitions into the other guys my phone is ringing. I'm going to pick this up and try to patch it in and see who it is. Hold on. All right, what is it? We have you. We got a podcast.

We're talking about Tomb Raider, are we? Which one is this? Is this a new one? I dare say you're talking about my sister, are you? No, I... Oh, no. Who are you? Oh, what? You're talking about my sister, are you? No, I... Oh, no. Who are you? Oh, what?

You're talking about Lara Croft. I demand to know who you are. My name is Nigel. Nigel Croft. Nigel Chester Croft. Nigel Nigel Chester Croft. Is that correct? Yes.

I am an IT manager in Leicestershire, England, UK. And I don't appreciate all that's going on. Is that in Australia? Or what is the story there? No, it's in England, UK. Okay. Okay. I don't appreciate all this attention being placed on my sister

when I should be the real star. I'm busting my buns every day trying to get my company's computers working. All she's doing, she's gallivanting on yachts, cruises. She's lighting stuff on fire like she's cock of the walk. I reinstalled Windows 7 the other day. It took three hours. Nigel, Nigel, let me just ask you, though. In this industry, in this biz, it's all about who you know.

I know Dave from HR. He hired hired me who else do i need to know i mean somebody in the games biz would be would be ideal maybe a producer whoa that oh those minesweeper guys right i don't know nigel They have that pinball game, the Space Cadet pinball game. I know that. I install that on every computer. I don't, I honestly don't appreciate it. Nigel, Nigel, can you just confirm a suspicion for me real quick? Please list all the video games you know. Okay.

I know Minesweeper. Got it, dig. I know Space Cadet Pinball. Space Cadet Pinball, dig. I know there's this card game called Solitaire, but they have like a digital version. Okay, yeah, yeah. Can I posture a guess?

Sure. Maybe Ski Free. Oh, the one with the snowman and he eats you. Yeah, they don't have that anymore that's that was on the older computers and yeah though that's pretty much it okay paint me paint me a brain picture and do it quick because i think you might have actually killed phil um i'm dead what if we if if i worked my magic and got you in contact with the people you need to be in contact with to really make it from hr what would a nigel nigel her short croft chester croft um chester

well what would that game be like give me give me a sliver of the gameplay loop it's not i'm not looking to make games i just want a little attention for what i'm doing up here okay and you thought because honestly would this would this office even be running would they be selling cans and and other doodads whatever they do i don't really know but would they be running without my day-to-day efforts, whereas Lara goes off on a yacht and burns a bunch of bags in nets, and suddenly she's a bloody hero? Yeah. Yeah. I can't imagine Nigel Nigel.

It must be really difficult for you. It is a daily trial. Daily trial. I can sympathize with that. So is the twist ending of the podcast going to be that Nigel Nigel works at EA's server farm? You know a new place for me to work? Because I'm open to pretty much anything. Nigel Nigel, I'm starting to detect that you do not have much loyalty for the company in which you are employed well let

me ask you something how many it managers have any loyalty for the company they are employed by i guess that's a good point good point it's fair point i just want some attention and if it means getting out there i don't know putting myself in one of these space cadet ski free games just just let me know like i'm good at a bunch of things but especially good at checking your email and seeing if you've said anything untoward listen nigel nigel uh nigel nigel chester croft thank you so much for joining us it is it is my pleasure the word. Nigel should be known throughout the earth. You just want us to say your name a bunch to people we know.

Nigel, Nigel Chestercroft. Yes. Okay. Fantastic. Pretty easy to remember. Nigel, thanks so much. Please put Russ back on the phone. I should say. Please put Russ back on the phone? Hey, guys. Is that the... Yeah, no. He was... I piped him in. Piped him in. Alright couldn't really all right good

now i edit the show is there any sort of special technical considerations i need to know for that i don't know if we're set up to record directly from a piped in iphone i hope it worked out i don't know okay yeah it's just going to be four minutes of absolute silence speaking of things not working out i got in like a good uh did good 30 minutes this morning on a server that wasn't my server. And then what happened? Well, and then I came into work. Oh, you came into work. But it probably would have kicked off eventually.

Oh my God, yes. Why don't we paint a picture for people that haven't actually played the game at all? I'm one of those people because I have a Mac and it's not out on Mac. I guess it's not really out on PC now either. There has been no shortage of shittiness about this game on the internet in the past few days and well-deserved. Let's chat about, like...

Justin, have you played any of it? I've gotten, like... I've maybe played an hour. I went through the tutorial and then I goofed around with the that town i built next to yours i would say i've gotten maybe four hours into it but in like three different cities because you have to keep changing servers phil have you played it at all uh no i i've watched my girlfriend go through the tutorial and then uh she has been unwilling to touch it since then

for fear that the servers will mess up and not save progress on her city so as much as i've i've played you know maybe four four five hours here and there um and while like my issues have been not being able to get on not being booted and losing progress, although I know that is a huge issue for people. And I don't know, I feel like I'm not ready to like give any kind of final word about it, because I really haven't messed around with the regional features. So the big thing in this SimCity is you can communicate in a number of different ways with neighboring cities, which can either be run by yourself or by other players. So, for instance, if Justin and I have neighboring cities, he can send students into my city.

I can send him resources, so on and so forth. Well, before we get too deep into it, because I'm already a little bit confused. Okay. So the way I was picturing the whole always-on online thing was akin to Diablo 3, because that seems to be like they were sort of people were thinking in the same way. But the second you start talking about servers, my brain gets a little fluey. Okay, so here's the thing.

In order to play the game, in order to build a region, think of a region as like the hub in which all of the cities, like constituent cities sit that players can control. And it can be up to like 16 cities in a single region. You build that region first off on a server. And right now there are servers like, you know, North America East 1, North America East 2, North America West 1, and a couple for Europe and one for the Oceanic region.

And if your server is down, you cannot access that region or the city in that region. Like, one of the big fixes that EA has said is just change servers and pick up a new, they're basically saying fucking start over, which is, like, crazy town. Anyway, sorry, we're veering into negativity um i i i had a hard time sort of understanding this so i think it's good that you're explaining it yeah um and so essentially when you start a region that's like you're the place you're supposed to invite your

buddies to be like start your cities here yeah and then the region has a number of spots like a number of vacant spots where you can place cities and each lot has you know a certain number of resources associated with it like maybe this spot is rich in coal but there's no wind coming through so if you want wind power then um then you're out of luck so you gotta like find the place that you want there's also you know railways and uh you know river shores and and and highways that you want to be close to so that you can that is so that affects trade um is it random like how do you know what's in your region uh you you can scroll over it when you're picking which city

you want to settle okay it'll give you sort of a brief outline of what it is um which has been neat as as shitty as it has been to have to start different cities just because the servers i keep picking go down um it's been interesting to see how how quickly your cities can start setting themselves apart just based on sort of the identity of the resources available to them and just sort of how you're branching decisions very organically shape the city that you're making that's what's so fascinating about the game is not only that your cities communicate it's that in order for them to communicate and work together effectively they have to be different and that's not really something i've seen from a sim city game before i've never been that deep into sim

city but i've never i've never played a game like that where the identity of the place that you're building is so so so firmly established. Griffin, one thing, one thing I'm curious about, because one of the things that sounds most interesting to me about that whole region system is that I've heard your city can be affected by your neighbors. And like, like, for example, your city can have pollution floating in from your neighbors, so to speak. Has that, have you noticed that in your time with the game? That's the thing. I only have one city in a region. Justin and I have a region together that we have maybe gotten to play a half hour on,

so not enough to do that. I joined a region with a bunch of randos and did see that. I did much, much better than they did. They all pretty much went bankrupt very quickly. And I built up a lot of utility services. I built up trash pickup. I built a giant fire and police station. And then I can volunteer those services to my neighbors. So I can pick up their trash for them.

So that's the difference between us. You're there creating these things that are going to help your neighbors who are struggling. My main goal in wanting to play this game is I want to go in there and just be the shittiest neighbor possible. If possible, I want to try and drag down the nicer communities around me. You can do that. I mean if you build a city with no schools, shitty police services, and like a toninos, but, like, your city kind of sucks, there will be many, many criminals who will go to your rich neighbor cities and just, like, fucking let Hulkamania run wild.

So if you make Atlantic City, you're going to drag down. Which I kind of don't, and I mean, this is very much a philosophical question more than it is anything specific to the game quality. But for me, I miss the idea of just this sandbox that I own that is sort of walled off from the rest of the world. I feel like this approach really discourages the idea of your city, underline, capitalized, like this is my city that I make. It sounds like it's built to make a bunch of different ones. And I don't know. For me, that loses some of the appeal if it's not like this one city

that I put all my time into. You can't make one epic, awesome city that has everything? Well, the city size is much smaller than it has been in previous games. I still think that there's enough room in your city to get shit done. And also, you can just have a private region and claim all the cities for yourself. But then it's like Sim State. Like you're worrying about the interdependence. But at the same time, if you want to argue about the philosophy of having it being your city, I think surrounding it with other cities that are wildly different.

That's what bugs me about, like, I used to play a lot of Minecraft on a private server, and I spent dozens and dozens and dozens of hours building these crazy structures. And at the end of the day, like, they were just, I don't know, they were, I had nobody to show them to. You know what i mean they were they were so hermetically sealed that i couldn't i couldn't share them with somebody and i i to me that is the biggest reason for wanting to have this customized thing it's why i got super into mmos like eq and wow is i can say look at this character this is my character you can compare them to your characters just to see how different that they are. But that's also like in,

but to that point though, that assumes, and I think that's with this way in most MMOs where you have a character that is yours and like it's not built for you to go hop from character to character and trying to perfect it. And like to me- I think you're under

the impression that you can quickly and easily like max out a city and then have to go make another one in order to make it a functional it's it's from what i've played which again still is is not much um i that's that's not the case at all i i have never like finished i've filled up a city more or less in terms of area. And once you do that, it's not like, well, time for the next one. Like there's always, always, always, always room to improve. And it's not just surface level like, oh, I have more room for residential zones. It's how can I increase the density of this area?

How can I increase the wealth and happiness? And how can I trade more effectively with the outside world or become more self-sufficient? Like you, you set these, you have quests that your, your, your Sims give you. Um, but more, more than that, it's, it's like, it's like guiding your own path. Like, how can I take my dirty ass coal run city and make it a modern green metropolis like that's the kind of stuff that that i really well really toots my horn was there just a discotheque in here i think so i heard that also terrifying uh i would never play like in hearing everyone talking about the multiplayer i would never play online in hearing everyone talking about the multiplayer i would

never play online for a few reasons one i don't want like china to move next door and start pushing coal out um i'm talking about the country not the people sure uh and i too like what happens if you have someone that's like your buddy and he's making an awesome um city that you're like relying on for power and whatnot and then your buddy takes vacation for three months yeah are you effed like is your city basically no i think the city will keep going yeah but doesn't it like eventually devolve into crime and horribleness i don't know i don't think russ i don't think there's a fucking person on earth that can answer that goddamn question because i don't think i don't think Russ I don't think there's a fucking person on earth that can answer that god damn question I don't think anybody's played enough

of the networked stuff on the public live servers to make that kind of I wish I don't know well that begs another question that you might know do the cities change when you're not playing is it like an MMO

where like time is still going i don't know i don't i don't think so i've never like i haven't like logged on and like my fucking city's on fire or something like that like as far as like you earned a bunch of money while you're gone like yeah that would be i mean i haven't been in the black and in months but i i know what you're talking about um i'm still looking forward to i still feel like i don't have my city and i don't think i'm going to feel that way until like all of us like team polygon all gets together in a region or like the servers stay up long enough that i don't have to keep hopping from place to place um i'm i'm excited to to do that because I really do think a lot of the game is built around

this city to city functionality yeah it has actually rubbed me the wrong way when I've seen a lot of people in all the hubbub say you know this is essentially a single player game and they have this always online DRM

but like that's not really accurate I mean it's really not built that way don't get it don't get it twisted like I'll say this I think that there is a mechanical justification for the game to be always online I feel like that the fact that a game is always online shouldn't shouldn't be like dismiss it out of hand for being a bad game because if that's the case then every mmo ever is bullshit which i don't think people i don't think anybody i think people just take issue with games that are always online that don't necessarily have to be. And based on what I've heard, there's no real reason why this, apart from DRM piracy concerns,

why this couldn't be played offline. Yeah, so that's the thing for me. I totally respect them trying something new with SimCity. I think that's super cool. And trying to do something with this networked play. But it seems weird to me that they're not giving you even an option for doing something critical. For the same reason that Diablo made no sense. Don't get it twisted.

The fact that nobody's able to play the goddamn game right now is because it's always on DRM. And it's shitty. And it's penalizing people who are all buying the game legally. And even if it passes, what's so fucking frustrating is that the game is really good. People are angry because they can't play this really good game that Maxis made. And what's frustrating about this and what's frustrating about Diablo 3 and a few other games is, like, you can't defer excitement. Like, this game's going to be fixed eventually the servers are going to be fine people are going to be able to play it like

the way that maxis envisioned but at the same time like it's it's going to be tarnished like there is something to be said for the day one excitement of everybody playing a game all at once and i feel like when people think back on a game as being, like, classic, it's because they foster those nostalgic memories for a game. Well, let's not go crazy, because think back to Half-Life 2, which was all sorts of broken on day one

for, like, a lot of these reasons. I guess that's true. I don't... I just... It's a shame, because you can tell a lot of heart went into this game it was designed like whether you like the cross city stuff or not like it was designed by people who love this franchise and have thought of ways to evolve it and make the multiplayer a cohesive and you know thoughtful part of the game and it is there all of that work and all that love is being straight dog fucked right

now like it is being straight fucked is that one of the disasters actually yeah a giant dog that comes from the sky and just ruins just ruins the whole thing and it sucks like if i were ocean quigley right now i'd be vibrating at a frequency that would bore me into the fucking center of the earth like i would be the is that a human being yeah he's the designer of the game i would be fucking frustrated i would be so goddamn angry because it should have a single player component like you can make your regions private you can control every city in it it should have a single player component and the only reason that it doesn't is because you know thankfully ocean quickly can fall back on his heist service so he should be fine oh god that stunk uh phil i was hoping before we leave

and move on to the next thing uh real quickly we could go over um uh review updates because it's kind of been like a a topic that we've that has gone into practice this week seems to be a lot of people are discussing it so yeah we we updated that sim city review we might update it again yeah well what's so crazy now is it's not just the server let's talk about this because god it's gonna make me so angry it's not just that the servers are down and people can't play the game they are actively removing shit from the game now you can't play in cheetah speed anymore until they get that figured out and it's like that's like they took they were like nope no rocket launcher sorry right and they just took a weapon

out of a game no expert mode in rock band sorry guys gotta tell gotta roll it back a little bit like oh it's so fucking bananas because that's the only when you are waiting to earn enough money to buy the big expensive thing like you put it in cheetah mode that's what you do that's how you play that's how you play uh so phil what's what's the reasoning behind review updates i know this system we actually started developing before you got hired actually yeah as a deputy review center i imagine you probably have a pretty good handle on it by now no i'm, I don't have a fucking clue. If you could explain it. No, no, no. Review updates, essentially, we're approaching our

video game reviews with the idea that video games aren't static products anymore. It isn't, you know, you don't go buy your cartridge at the store and put it in and everything is the same from the day you bought it until the day that the cartridge no longer works games are patched games are always online they

get updates and we wanted to have a way to reflect that in our review section so so that our not just us giving the news about like when a patch, but that we'd also have the ability to reflect on it critically. If the game has been improved, we could bump up the score. And if the game has suffered, we could bump down the score. And in the case of SimCity, we've chosen to bump down the score based off of the fact that it's not fucking working. And this is not the first time

it's happened. We bumped up the Retro City Rampage review, right, for the XBLA version? Yeah, that is correct. Oh, we did? Yeah, the XBLA version of that game got some major improvements.

So when that came out, and I believe they were patched into the other versions, we bumped up the score a little bit and did an update on that uh yeah it's it's i know it's it's hard for some people to um it's hard for some people to understand and i agree that it's kind of like it's kind of a big idea it's a nebulous it's a nebulous process too because a lot of the the response that i saw to this was well if the world of warcraft servers go down or if you know the call of duty servers go down for a day do you do you you know all of a sudden update the world of warcraft review and it's like like, I think the SimCity issues are much larger than that. I think the fact that it's launched

and they haven't gotten it right and they are actively removing shit from it is more characteristic of the state of their service right now, which is to say, dog fucked. Right. I think that if you have a question about this obviously we're always available to talk about it

the general as a general policy though the answer to your question is if it's in the service of the readers so like are we gonna update or review for a 5 year old game because they patch in new

costumes like that doesn't seem like a really good service to readers nor a valuable sort of use of our resources but we have the ability to do this i mean we have the tech ability we have the people like this is the sort of thing we can do and we think it's valuable to to readers to have reviews that evolve over time um and if it's valuable to you then we'll continue to to pursue it as long as that continues to make sense so um we're erring on the side of providing more information and kind of letting you do with it what you see fit hooray we should talk about what we're going to play next week shit I don't know what's coming out next week I know exactly what we're going to play next week

you guys can fight me if you'd like but I might recommend that we play both God of War Ascension which is a God of War game and the other game that I'd strongly recommend is a game called Ridiculous Fishing I call that

I also call that. So, Justin, you can play God of War, and Chris Plant can play God of War. I don't actually want to play anything. How does that grab you? No, you have to play and contribute. Yeah, so those are the two games that we're going to be discussing next week. Maybe.

Maybe we should circle back around to SimCity again. Maybe dip in on SimCity, see how that's going. Marley will probably mention it in passing, but those will be the focus. Listen, if you guys need me to come back and to talk about Etrian Odyssey 4, anytime. Anytime you want. It's pretty awesome.

It's pretty rad. Please do this on your own time. Did Showdown Effect come out? What? Did you guys know if Showdown Effect came out? I don't know what that is. Hey, guys, check this out. Chris Plant.

Guys, check this out. SimShitty. Chris Plant played it. Remember? It was the game that Chris Plant brought to Besties like a year ago, like a calendar year. Showdown Effect? Showdown Effect. It's about...

Yeah, that came out this week. It did come out? Huh. Yes. Good to know. Making a splash. We should try to play that maybe because... about that game yeah the side-scrolling multiplayer game what about fucking starcraft we're gonna get into that honestly you can get into that that's fine i don't if you don't want to play god of war you can play starcraft i am solid on that

i do not i'm good i'm so good on how many apms How many APMs you have to? I just... Zerg... Zerg all the... Zerg you guys. I'm going to Zerg at home. I'm going to take my Zerg and I'm going to Zerg home. I'm going to Zerg back to my Zerg so you can just Zerg off. StarCraft

besties. Next Friday make sure you join us again because shouldn't the world's best friends play the world's best games? Besties!