The Big Flop - Back to the Failure: The DeLorean with Betsy Sodaro and Arjun Banerjee | 62

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

After basically creating the "muscle car," rebel auto-maker John Delorean became GM’s golden boy, only to leave it all behind for a risky venture in troubled Northern Ireland. But when his gull-winged wonder flopped, DeLorean's desperate moves led to unethical dealings, courtroom drama, and cocaine stings. The infamous car king was all but forgotten until his car made an unexpected cameo in a film that cemented its legacy forever.Betsy Sodaro (Superstore, A Funny Feeling) and Arjun Banerjee join Misha to take a joyride along the twisty path of John Delorean's ruin. ALT: to figure out what's under the hood of John Delorean's flop.Follow The Big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to The Big Flop early and ad free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. At the Sheraton Plaza La Reina Hotel near the Los Angeles International Airport, John DeLorean, a famous automaker, sits on a comfy couch sipping champagne. He looks downright dashing, a dapper gentleman who's dated glamorous models and is himself quite handsome. Some even say he looks like a soap star. Tall, tan, a silver fox, always draped in custom shirts and suits that fit his form perfectly. His newest car is quite

the looker too. It's sleek and bold, just like him, and it's going to change the face of driving forever. But there's been a bit of a hiccup in production. The British government, which has graciously built DeLorean's new factory, has had a shakeup. And now the new prime minister wants to poll all future funding. Rude. So DeLorean's desperate for cash. And that's why he's parked himself at this airport hotel to put that good old-fashioned charm of his to use

on some folks who claim they can help him make a quick buck. By the way of 220 pounds of cocaine, naturally. Ah! DeLorean plays it cool as these underworld types show off the goods. He has to say something, something coke dealers would find flattering. It's better than gold, he yells. Nice one, John. That should do the trick, the Lorian thinks to

himself. Speaking of gold, what's that glint over there? Is that an FBI badge? What's the first step to growing your business? Getting people to notice you. But how do you do that? Two words. Constant contact. Your struggle with expensive, slow, and unmeasurable approaches to marketing your business is over. With constant contact, get email marketing that helps you create and send the perfect

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your free trial today. Go to constantcontact.ca for your free trial. Constantcontact.ca. John DeLorean was on his own in 1973 with an idea for a new sports car. The car in which all of us as British taxpayers own a slice of a tune of 77 million pounds. We were closed by the British government. Desperate to save his failing car company, became involved in what he alleges was a government engineered cocaine deal. I freely accept my arrogance and my gigantic ego

got me in a lot of trouble. You were a sucker, a guy so wrapped up in himself, so ego riddled, you were not a of trouble. You were a sucker. A guy so wrapped up in himself, so ego-riddled. You were not a brilliant con man, but a victim. We are on a sinking ship. From Wondery and AtWill Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time.

I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar, and done so much primo laughy taffy, I've literally gone back to the future at Don't Cross a Game Man. And today, we're talking about John DeLorean, a bad boy car maker whose drive for success sent him flying into a proverbial ditch. On our show today, we have a fantastic comedian that you might recognize from social media. It's Arjun Banerjee.

Welcome to the show, Arjun. Hey, it's me from social media. Also on our show is a returning guest. Some might say the best guest that has ever graced the big flop. Whoa! I am so excited to have her back on the show. It is Betsy Sidoro. Welcome back, Betsy.

Thank you. I'm so stoked to be back. I love talking about disasters. Ha ha ha. So question, when you hear the name DeLorean, do you think of the weird looking car in Back to the Future or the scandalous life of John DeLorean? Back to the Future for sure. Yeah, I didn't even really, I thought they were really cool cars because they fly and

they have those cool escorts. Thinking that they really fly in real life, like, yeah, all you got to do is get like a Mr. Coffee Machine or whatever it is in the second one, you can fly. I remember being like, that is a cool car. They started flying in 2015 and it's 2024. So they've been flying for nine years. Yes, little known facts, they do currently fly. So we clearly all know the DeLorean as just a fun, futuristic looking car. We had no idea of the shady scandals behind its inventor. Cool. Of course, of course there's stuff going on. There is an older white man involved. Of course there is.

Of course there's scandal happening. Well today, we'll find out who created that strange car with the seagull wings and why that's actually the least interesting thing about him. I'm talking corporate intrigue, love affairs, and government orchestrated take downs. It is a saga. What? We should make a Netflix show about it. We should. Okay. Hey, everybody listening, it's our idea.

Yeah, don't take it. Ryan Murphy. We have the life friends. Yeah. Well, our main character is John DeLorean, a son of immigrants who settled in Motor City, AKA Detroit. His family was very poor. Well, it was the Great Depression after all. So even though he and his brother wore makeshift clothing

made from bean sacks and his parents got divorced, they'd eventually claw their way out of poverty. And young John seemed especially gifted. He was an honor student, ran track, and wrote a humor column for his high school Cass Tech. Was it funny? Yeah, I'm curious as to what the humor was in that column. Yeah, we need some excerpts. I mean, today we have people who are like, yeah, it was funny in like 10 years ago and their whole careers ended. I imagine somebody was funny in what, 1945?

It was... Kind of rough. Scary. Yeah, a little scary, a little scary. Yeah, we're gonna cancel him. Yeah. But I was thinking, I was like, I was an honor student. I ran track and I was the class clown.

Maybe one day somebody will say that I was like a young prodigy. Yeah, right. I'll say it. I'll say it every day if you want me to. I did a lot of sports and theater. What was your sport? Soccer was huge. Hockey and skiing. Skiing? Skiing. Yeah. People ski in high school? Where were you from?

Colorado. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we will be talking about a lot of fresh powder on today's episode. Yeah! Nose powder, dude! So CasTech happens to be a feeder school for the big three automakers, AKA Ford, GM, and Chrysler.

But John, he didn't want to work in cars, not yet. He won a music scholarship to play the saxophone. What? Except he got drafted to fight in World War II before he graduated high school. Okay. I didn't know the saxophone existed back then. What? I thought it was like, you know, maybe like the 60s or something.

You never heard jazz? Oh, right. That started a while ago. Never mind. Never mind. I knew it. I knew that. Uh.

So after the war ends, he bounces around working odd jobs until he decides to enroll in Chrysler Institute's engineering program and in 1957 he officially joins Chrysler. Finally got that steady job. Just kidding. He leaves after just one year. So what do we think about DeLorean so far? Kind of just trying to figure out life, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I imagine his early 20s wandering was a little bit different considering he had to fight in World War II. Bad to be in, but what was he doing?

Maybe he was just playing the saxophone. Who knows? It was in the military band? Yeah. So, DeLorean, he works for a bit at Packard and then ends up at General Motors working on a sexy high-performance car. Yes. Car racing has become a huge deal around the world and he can sense that American customers

want a little bit more excitement in their own lives. But GM suddenly imposes a mandate at the company prohibiting the production of really fast cars for consumers. They don't want folks racing around these streets in those things. They were like slow cars only. Slow cars only. Horse and buggy. We're going too fast. So to find out how DeLorean beats the system, let's play a game. Yeah!

So here are the rules. I'm going to ask you some car-related trivia, and whoever gets the most answers correct wins. Okay, you're all going down. I love cars. I live in New York and I'm queer. I don't know cars. First question. Delorean discovers a loophole in GM's prohibition. He can build a really fast car if a. He imports Italian cars and switches out some superficial parts. B. He offers customers the option to upgrade their engine.

Or C. He starts his own company and then sells the cars back to GM. C dude. C. No. Oh dang it! Okay, I thought this was leading to the DMC. He offers buyers a massive V8 engine stuffed into existing smaller cars. Oh, and that's allowed.

I guess so. That car's name was the Pontiac GTO. What does GTO stand for? Is it A. G-Force Turbo Option? Cool. B, Genuine Tempest Outlaw? Or C, Gran Turismo Amalegado? Whoa!

C, dude! I'm gonna go with B just because... B's funny. B's funnier. Betsy, ding ding ding! Yes, the answer is C. GTO was lifted from Ferrari's GTO. Amalegado translates to homologated, which means approved for racing because Latin. Whoa. Last question. The 1964 Pontiac GTO is regarded as the first ever muscle car. What is a muscle car? Is it A, a car that looks normal but goes fast? B, a car that literally looks muscle-y?

Or C, nobody knows? Ha! C dude, nobody knows. I mean it's gotta be C, but I do Ha! C, dude, nobody knows. I mean, it's gotta be C, but I do want to say A. Well, ding ding ding, it is C. Yeah! Yeah, there's weirdly no strict definition. Even according to the Muscle Car Club, the definition is debated. But most muscle cars are mid-sized, high-performance, powered by a large V8 engine, whatever that

means, and are reasonably priced. Yeah, what about a big old fancy car that can't be a muscle? I don't think so. I think they're spending all of their money on Roids. They can't afford those fancy cars. There it is. Yeah, you have to be shredded in order to drive a muscle car. Exactly.

So Pontiac is internally known as the old ladies division. So making a fast vehicle seems completely bonkers, but the GTO is a massive hit with Pontiac selling about 45,000 GTOs in its first year. And other companies race to create their own muscle cars, like the Ford Mustang, the Dodge Charger, and the Plymouth Barracuda, which I love that name. Yeah, that name's awesome. So DeLorean becomes a star at General Motors. He keeps bobbing around GM and ends up heading their Chevrolet division in the 70s making

oodles of cash. Wait, so Chevy is owned by GM? Yes. They act like they're their own brand, right? Don't they all? Yeah, every car is like acting like it's its own thing and then it is like, there's like two companies that own all of them or something like that. DeLorean, he also gradually becomes

a hot shot man about town. He dyes his hair jet black, wears luxurious custom clothing like some sort of Playboy. We actually have a photo. Let's look. Yes. Oh. Ooh.

Zaddy DeLorean. Wow. What do you think? DeLorean. I don't like his face. He looks kind of like a villain. A James Bond villain. Yes.

Here's a quick game. Fuck, marry, kill. DeLorean, Elon Musk, Richard Branson. Oh dear Lord. Well, we killed Musk, right? Kill Elon for sure. Kill Richard Branson for sure. Yeah. Fuck DeLorean, dude. This holiday season, give your loved ones only the best from L.L. Bean. For 80 years, L.L. Bean has been making their Scotch plaid flannel shirts the same way, better than everyone else's. Their Scotch plaid is brushed on each side to create a smooth and cozy feel. And at just $79, this long-lasting plaid is a perfect way to stay comfy all winter long.

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this shocking attack and what hidden truths did Sergey uncover? Follow the Spy Who on the Wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of the Spy Who Putin poisoned early and ad-free with Wondery Plus. So since DeLorean is hot and rich now, he divorces his wife of 14 years and starts dating movie stars like Raquel Welch and Ursula Andress, two of the 60s and 70s top pinup girls. You know that belted bikini from the first James Bond film? That's Ursula. Okay.

Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. DeLorean makes celebrity friends like Sammy Davis Jr. and Johnny Carson. He buys steaks in the San Diego Chargers and the New York Yankees. And with all that money and power, he buys a fancy penthouse overlooking Central Park where he settles with his third wife, actress and future talk show host, Christina Farrar.

Ooh. DeLorean, he's living the high life in every possible way. He becomes vice president of GM in 1972 at just 48 years old, making a ridiculous $650,000 a year. Oh, and back then, that's like a billion dollars. Literally. Whoa. Executive pay has gone up a lot since the 70s, so he's still comparatively made less

than what he would make today. Not to not be funny. You're like the person who watches game shows and when someone wins a million dollars, you're like, yes, but half is going to taxes. But this is still a huge jump from the $20,000 a year salary he started out making. Oh shit. To like grow up in the Great Depression and then be like I am making so much money. I mean I would lose my mind. Well everything's coming up DeLorean until in 1973,

he resigns. Oh. Accounts vary on whether he was pushed out or just got sick of the whole thing. DeLorean claims he left, but the GM honchos take the credit saying they couldn't stomach his giant ego. Oh. He's also said to have committed possible fraud dating back 20 years

where DeLorean may have stolen some patents and pawned them off as his own. Oh, no, he is a villain. I mean, of course. Also, no one was suspicious that the guy who got a degree in music was inventing cars. Yeah, what the hell's that about? Now, the most likely culprit of his ousting is a speech that DeLorean prepared to give at a conference with the other execs that would have chastised GM for building poor quality vehicles that cost the company millions in warranty repairs, which GM absolutely

denies. Whoa. But with his fame and money, he figures he can just make a go of it himself. His goal is to create a new company as big as BMW. Starting anything seems really hard, you know? Like let alone a car company is crazy. Yeah, cars, famously expensive to make. Yeah.

So DeLorean spends the next few years scraping together investment capital from his celebrity friends. In 1975, DeLorean founds the DeLorean Motor Company with the hope of making a $12,000 ethical sports car. That's about $72,000 in today money. Whoa. But what do you think he means by ethical? I guess all the other cars are not ethical. Yeah, like not using like bad parts or something, or like little kids to make it. I don't know.

Just very much giving like ethical non-monogamy, like everyone else is doing it wrong. I mean, we would hope that by ethical he means no child labor, but no, it did mean being built from non corrosive materials and therefore can last longer than a standard car. So, Betsy, you were on the spot when you said better parts. Okay, okay. Now, DeLorean's reputation as an engineering genius goes a long way, like across the pond. Long way.

Bypassing Detroit, his home city, he starts negotiating with the British government to open a plant in a suburb of Belfast, touting loads of jobs for Ireland amidst the Troubles. Okay. Oh. Now, extremely simplified reminder, the Troubles was a conflict between violent paramilitary forces, including the IRA, who wanted to end British rule in Northern Ireland, and the UDA and other loyalists who wanted to keep it British. It lasted almost four decades and led to about 3,600 deaths.

Dude, that's such a DeLorean move of like, don't worry, my car company will end this. You dork, get out of here, man. You dork. What a big dork. We don't need to liberate Ireland. We can just build cars there. Yeah, DeLorean, bring her together of people. So yeah, it's probably not a great idea to open a factory in a war zone, but there are also not a lot of people in America willing to bankroll something as risky as a brand

new car company. And since unemployment in Ireland is about 30 to 40 percent, the Brits, they'll pretty much try anything. Now, getting the money is one thing. DeLorean has a prototype he's built with his friend Bill Collins, and it looks pretty spiffy. But right away, there's a problem for the fast-moving Mr. DeLorean. Uh-oh. Question. How long do you think it takes to make a car?

Like, from concept to making, or just, like, on the factory? From design to assembly. Ten years. A year or something? Right in the middle, four to six years. Whoa. I've never thought about that. But Mr. DeLorean, not a patient man, and once he has the contract with Great Britain, he wants to design his factory-worthy car in only two years, three times faster than normal. Which is a huge theme on this show.

Men just being impatient and wanting everything right now. To help, he reaches out to Colin Chapman, a dashing British automaker and founder of Lotus Cars. He had a Bond villain accent and suit to match. I assume DeLorean met him at the handsome car guys club. But Chapman is a catch for DeLorean. But he doesn't want the job. So here's where DeLorean's first big con is set in motion.

Oh, yes. DeLorean, he has collected $17.5 million in seed capital money, which he promises to split with Chapman, who helps DeLorean launder the money through a shell company. So now, DeLorean has a few extra million dollars in the bank and he gets to work with his man crush Chapman. But Bill Collins, DeLorean's original partner and original designer of the car, discovers some documents regarding massive payments to a mystery company. So he suspects he's being squeezed out and he leaves DMC. Collins has no idea that a massive embezzlement is also happening.

Whoa. I mean, are we shocked? No. Yeah. He got out right, like, good timing, good timing. Yeah, I don't understand the financial schemes right here. He got out right like, good timing, good timing. I don't understand the financial schemes right here. I know bad stuff is happening, but explicitly what?

Don't get it. It's because you're one of the good ones. The car the three end up designing is of course the DeLorean Motor Company 12, initialized as the DMC 12. But it's the car we colloquially call the DeLorean. And of course, let's take a look at a photo. Yes. It looks so cool.

I like it. Me too. Looks like it goes fast. To all the listeners at home, we are looking at the iconic and classic picture of the DeLorean with its doors that open up like seagull wings and the one you've seen, the one you know, the one you love. Now in early 1981, DeLorean's factory in Dunmury, Northern Ireland is ready to open.

The British government has invested $120 million into the project. But that's okay, because DeLorean has secured 30,000 pre-orders for his car. That's $300 million in business. Wow. That's crazy. The plant also creates 2,500 jobs and has folks from both sides of the divide of the troubles. So DeLorean is basically creating peace. Okay, there we go. Okay, next stop, the West Bank. Yeah.

Can you guess what the problems are? Are the preorders fake? Wow. Arjun, you hit it right on the head. Nice! Yeah, those 30,000 pre-orders don't exist. Completely made up. That's insane.

What is this plan? That's crazy. Now, that's not the only problem. The Irish workforce don't have much experience in building cars. The employees have to be overtrained, which gets expensive pretty quickly. And it also takes a long time.

And by the time the first car rolls off the line, it cost $25,000, which is twice as much as it was supposed to. For reference, a souped-up Corvette at the time only cost $18,000. Whoa. What does souped-up mean? I don't know. Yeah, probably just like a tape deck. Yeah, back then. Back then the wheel was just invented.

So, I mean, it moved, you know. So, the DeLorean Motor Company has started off immediately with some financial chicanery. But, you can't have a new car without a new marketing campaign. Let's watch a commercial. Cool. The DeLorean. Gullwing doors rise effortlessly beckoning you inside. The sleek stainless steel DeLorean.

Live the dream today. Whoa, I had no clue that seagulls were such a part of it. Yeah, it's like the whole design. That's, I mean, watching that I was like, there's no way this car is going to succeed. Who's thought is like, oh, what's what do I associate with power, wealth and success? Seagulls. So you're not dumping $25,000 into the ocean like a big seagull buying this thing, ASAP? So we've mentioned, Delorean's 30,000 pre-orders were just expressions of interest with no

intention to buy, a figment of this man's imagination. But one of the first people to actually get a DeLorean is John's friend, legendary TV host, Johnny Carson, who promptly gets charged with a DUI in one. Of course. Oh, my God. What is a bad marketing start? Yeah, just ask Justin Timberlake. Oh my god. And reviewers, they are not impressed with this strange new car.

The DMC12 has dangerous problems like a throttle that sticks, bad brakes, and shoddy suspension, especially in the early models. Oh, and they break down a lot. Oh, no. And since it's a brand new car brand, regular mechanics don't have the expertise to help during routine maintenance. And DeLorean dealerships get a reputation for low quality service.

I'm like imagining the auto mechanic version of that meme of a golden retriever sitting at a computer saying, I have no idea what I'm doing. So at this point, what would you do if you were in charge of the DeLorean? Oh, man. I'd be like bankruptcy. I would be like, we can't keep doing this. Yeah, I'd definitely be running because I've been committing crimes. Yeah.

Yeah. And I feel though, if we all were that John DeLorean fellow though, we would be like, hey, we're doing fine. Let's like double down. Let's go even harder with a shittier car. Well. Build just the worst car and that'll make our problems better.

That'll make it all go away. Betsy, I think you were born to be an audacious white man because that's exactly what he does. He's a loser. DeLorean does not slow down. He makes more cars. Thinking the British government, they'll have to keep paying him if he's creating jobs. Who cares about the product? Hey, we love someone who's fucking over the British. I didn't know that John DeLorean

was an anti-imperialist hero. We're learning so much. He's such a good dude. After all the bad reviews and breakdowns and Johnny Carson, sales of the DMC-12 begin to flatline. By the end of 1981, the factory has produced 7,500 cars but only sold 3,000, a tenth of the projection. DeLorean, he blames Big Flop Queen, the recession recession and high interest rates for poor sales. But Britain's prime minister, the late, great, Hannibal Lecter, I mean, Margaret Thatcher, isn't buying it.

She launches an investigation into DeLorean's books. Whoa. And guess what she finds? Everything's fine. Yeah. Yeah. End of episode. finds? Everything's fine. Yeah. Yeah, end of episode. Yeah. Everything worked out.

No, of course, she finds lots and lots of corruption. DeLorean's been defrauding his own company since 1978 to enrich himself, routing millions of dollars through Swiss bank accounts to dummy companies. So now it is February of 1982 and things are not looking good. The company is placed under receivership. The DeLorean factory in Belfast ceases operations in May and the British government pulls funding and the company is declared insolvent. Whoa.

Oh, damn. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. It's around this time that DeLorean does something truly desperate. He reaches out to James Hoffman, an acquaintance, neighbor, and supposed businessman. DeLorean's looking to scrounge up some investment capital, and he's in luck.

Hoffman says he can get him an infusion worth millions. It could save DeLorean's company. Can you guess how? No. Just the kindness of his soul? Yeah. Cocaine. Okay, okay.

220 pounds of Primo Laffy Taffy. 100 kilos of the old Krusty Charlie. I'm sure these are real names for cocaine. Okay. On October 19th, DeLorean flies to LA for a clandestine meeting in a hotel near the LA International Airport. He enters the hotel room where a few skeevy dudes present him with champagne to toast the deal. Then one of the dudes opens up a briefcase full of the good stuff. Not the full 220 pounds, but enough. So before I tell you what happens,

I should say there's a star-studded 2019 documentary, not movie, called Framing John DeLorean that has a reenactment of this moment. And when I say star-studded, I'm talking about Morena Bakkerin from the Deadpool movies, Jason Jones of Daily Show fame, and none other than troubled movie star Alec Baldwin as John DeLorean. What? So now that I've prepped y'all, let's look at the scene in the hotel.

Yeah. Between this and the other half, it's gonna generate about four and a half, not less than four and a half mil. It's better than gold. Gold weighs more than that for God's sakes. No. Hi John.

Jerry West. I'm with the FBI. What? Did you see that coming? No. I did not see that. Alec Baldwin looked nuts. He did look nuts. But we do have some video of John DeLorean in a bit.

You'll see why he looked like that. But yeah, the FBI, yeah, DeLorean is in a pickle. The FBI has set a nice little sting operation that he just waltzed right into. Whoa! He's arrested and charged with conspiracy to obtain and distribute all those frosted flakes. So this guy was like being watched by the government and he was just like, I'm going

to commit more crimes now. It's actually a twisted tale. Whoa. Okay. The question is, can he weasel his way out of this one? In 1984, DeLorean's drug trafficking trial commences. The government's entire case rests on the credibility of DeLorean's questionable neighbor, James Hoffman. Turns out, James Hoffman isn't who John DeLorean thought he was. Yes, he is a drug smuggler, but he got caught by the FBI and turned informant, agreeing to deliver bigger fish for them to fry.

So who wants to play lawyer and see if you can get John out of this bind? So this is happening in 1984 and the movie comes out in 85. So. Yeah, no. So DeLorean's defense team decides to put the government on trial. This is all entrapment. Pure and simple. The feds all knew DeLorean was hard up for money and that the offer was too enticing. Had they suggested him millions of dollars in lemonade sales, he would have taken it.

The cocaine, it was their idea. But don't you just hate it when that one guy at the party who always thinks cocaine's the best idea? Yeah. Yeah. Like, dude, we're winding down. No, I think we shouldn't. Yeah.

It's four in the morning. I think we should do it. What? No, man. Could you call your guy? But also, his defense was your honor. Who wouldn't have done that? Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Honestly, pretty good defense.

Yeah. They also pretty good defense. They also argue that DeLorean didn't know it was cocaine from the beginning, but was roped in on a mysterious deal with mysterious investors before the real scam was revealed in an airport hotel in a briefcase. What? A DEA agent even testifies that Hoffman promised DeLorean to the authorities, saying, the problem he's got, I can get him to do anything I want. Oh. OK.

The trial lasts for five whole months, and DeLorean never takes the stand. But he does do interviews after. Here's a clip of DeLorean explaining why he didn't just get up and leave that hotel room. Yes. Well, then suddenly, about two months later, he mentioned the subject of narcotics. I tried to escape, and I couldn't. What do you mean you tried to escape?

Well, when I got out of the room, I called my attorneys in New York, and I said, I think I've stumbled into a nest of organized crime. And I described the fact that suddenly what had started as a legitimate transaction was turning into an illegal one. They said, first, don't confront them, go along with them, because at this point, the alternatives are that or they'll probably kill you. Don't you just hate it when you stumble into a nest of organized crime? Yeah, don't you hate it when you're committing fraud at a high level

and then suddenly the fraud you're committing is also illegal? It's so annoying. So pretend you're on the jury. Do you find him guilty or not guilty? Guilty. Guilty. The jury finds him not guilty on all counts after 29 hours of deliberation. Whoa! But just because DeLorean's not being sentenced to prison doesn't mean he's all good.

His wife, Christina Farrar, realizes DeLorean's not the person she thought she married. He might even be a sociopath, she claims years later, and she might have a point. Yep. They divorce, and Farrar and their children move out of the Central Park penthouse and into her parents' home, where they sleep on air mattresses because she has no money, since her life savings evaporated

during the trial, and her modeling and acting career are now tainted by her association with her husband. Aw, man. Also, what do you mean evaporated? Like he stole them, or they just went away, or she spent them, or? He probably had some very expensive lawyers. Yeah.

But good ones. I mean, you better. Get off, yeah. So how do you think DeLorean deals with all of this? More cars. He becomes a born-again Christian. Whoa, gay. Or claims to, at least.

That's a big claim. That's a big claim. So let's watch a clip of DeLorean talking about how he got there. Christina brought you the Bible, you said, to the jail. And that's when you pretty much became born again. Well what happened was, for some reason I couldn't quit reading it. I read it from the break of day till late at night, and one of the guards was a seminary student.

He spent a lot of time with me, helped me, talked about Jesus a lot, and then eventually I had my experience there in prison. Ugh, gross. To quote the church lady, well, isn't that special? Also, I couldn't stop reading it. It's not that long a book. He had a lot of time on his hands. A lot of time on his hands. Got a lot of time. A lot of time. Now, the thing is, he's got a whole other trial to get through. In 1986, DeLorean and the feds have a rematch

over the $17.5 million he split with Colin Chapman, the designer of the DeLorean. Now, Chapman can't help the feds out because he's dropped dead of a heart attack. That's how they always get out of it. That's how they always get out of it. But, Christina, she is willing to testify against Elorien. She has seen him forging documents to make the money laundering seem legit,

wearing gloves, and aging the papers under sun lamps so forensic teams would be confused? Funny. Dunking them in coffee and putting them in the oven to make them look like the pirates. (*laughter*) Remember doing that for, like... (*laughter*) For little projects? The first time I did it, I was like,

I'm doing this for every single project from here on out. I'm making my paper look old, dude. This is awesome. Now, although this case isn't as sexy as the first, DeLorean's running out of money to pay his lawyers. Since Chapman's money has disappeared, DeLorean is charged with 15 counts of fraud and racketeering with $8.5 million.

So he is done for. What do you think his defense is this time? Uh, it's just like, yeah, it's, hey, you would have done it too. I guess I worked last time. Uh, just, it wasn't me. Shaggy. This time his defense just goes, this second trial is a rematch of the first. And since the feds weren't able to catch him then, they're pulling out all the stops and

trying again. During the 10 week trial, the jury hears six weeks of evidence and spends six days deliberating. And then they find Delorean not guilty again. Damn. What? Yeah. You know, they probably get so bored. Imagine being on the jury for that for six months and all of the weird like bullshit

jargon you have to listen to. Oh man, that's, this is wild. Yeah. But also, I mean, I know you're not supposed to say this, but he looks guilty. Yep, guilty. Like a good born again Christian, he does say praise God. Oh, gross. So by this time, between the scandals and the money troubles, there's no way DeLorean's resurrecting his car company. But something odd happens between his two trials that leads to some weird fame for DeLorean. Do you know what I'm referring to?

I think we do! Marty! Money! 1985's Back to the Future of course. Director Robert Zemeckis purchases six DeLoreans. Six! Just in case they break down to use in his iconic film. Because they do that. Yeah, because they're shitty cars, dude. Terrible cars.

Before he and his team chose the DeLorean, another company offered Zemeckis product placement incentives to use their car instead. The Ford Mustang. Whoa. DeLorean's way cooler. Ford offered Universal Studios $75,000 for product placement rights seems low, but it's about a quarter million in today's money. Yeah. But $75,000, that's like how much 3 DeLoreans is. But the screenwriter Bob Gale put it bluntly, quote, Doc Brown doesn't drive a fucking

Mustang. Yeah, because that would be weird to see them in a Mustang would be silly. Before Doc Brown drove anything, the original time-traveling machine was made from a household appliance. Do you remember what it was? Uh-uh. I think it's a refrigerator, because I used to watch Back to the Future extra DVDs.

Cool. But Robert Zemeckis pointed out to writer Bob Gale that Doc Brown was smart enough to have a mobile time machine and pitched The DeLorean. He reasoned it looked sort of futuristic, and thanks to the scandals, it was now a global punchline. So The DeLorean was actually a huge joke. Funny. Because, yeah, Marty is like, out of The DeLorean was actually a huge joke. Funny, cause yeah Marty is like out of the DeLorean?

Like kind of being like, why is this card dock? That's okay, that's cool. Yeah, but John DeLorean does not see it as a joke. After the movie comes out, he sends a very appreciative letter to the filmmakers thanking them for ditching the fridge. Oh. I mean, if they hadn for ditching the fridge. Oh. Oh.

I mean, if they hadn't ditched the fridge, how do you get a refrigerator to 88 miles per hour? Yeah. So let's do a little Where Are They Now? Yes. After the two trials wrapped, DeLorean spent much more time in court, defending against dozens of civil suits and, of course, in divorce court with Farrar. Despite designing another sports car he never made one again, his estate was purchased by none other than Trump and turned into a golf course. Whoa.

Whoa. He eventually remarried, moved to an apartment in New Jersey and lived there until the age of 80 before he passed away from stroke related complications. His tombstone has an image of the iconic DeLorean with the gullwing doors. Let's take a look at that. Oh, yep. Yep. It's his biggest failure. He's just like, put it on my tombstone.

Put it on my tombstone. After years of floundering, DeLorean's ex-wife Christina Farrar bounced back. Yes. She appeared on the Phil Donahue show to discuss her ex-husband and ended up impressing a higher up at an ABC affiliate station. She was offered a co-hosting job on a morning show and has since worked as a host, author, and TV cook. That rules! Yeah, good for her. Love to see a woman winning. The DeLorean is now a collector's item. There are about 6,000 DMC-12s still on the road, and one in excellent condition could be worth upwards of $100,000.

Whoa. Although they're bad cars, so very few of them are in good conditions, right? That is true. There it is. There it is. The DeLorean company has lived on, and the new company is very different from the old one, wholly unconnected with the former's scandals. After liquidation, an American company in Ohio purchased all of the remaining DeLorean parts and the company name.

Since then, it's provided restoration and maintenance for remaining owners. Wow. it's provided restoration and maintenance for remaining owners. In 2022, the new DeLorean Motor Company announced a collaboration with an Italian engineering company, Atal Design Giugiaro, to design a new car called DeLorean Alpha 5, an electric sports car with gull-wing doors and a more modern-looking build for $125,000. It has yet to go on sale. a more modern looking build for $125,000. It has yet to go on sale. Oh. But let's take a look at a picture, a side by side. Yeah, I wanna see what this looks like.

I think the old one looks cooler. I do too. The new one, I don't. It looks like a Tesla with a gold wings. I don't like it. Yeah, yeah. So here on the Big Flop, we try to be positive people and end on a high. So are there any silver linings that you can think of that came from the DeLorean and John DeLorean?

I mean, back to the future, of course. Big one. Huge. I mean, for John DeLorean, it kind of seems like nothing really bad happened to him. And he just got to steal lots of money and then keep it. Yeah, he kind of cruised around. Yeah, I guess get really good lawyers. We learned that lesson.

I do think it's nice that Farrar was able to rebuild her life. That is really cool. Yeah, we like that. That sucks. I feel we hear that all the time where it's like, and then the woman in the situation, everybody's like, how dare you be associated? We could never work with you again. It's like, I didn't know this shit was happening.

I didn't know that. Come on. Yeah, I thought he was just doing crafts with all the aging of the documents. Yes, yeah. Yeah. I thought he had a book report due. Yes. Yes.

Yes. So now that you both know about the man and the cocaine bust behind this iconic car, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop? I'm gonna do a big flop. Mm-hmm. I mean, I guess his ultimate goal was to make a cool car, which he did not do, so I guess

we go with big flop, but not mega because he didn't suffer really. Yeah, I think if he had gotten his comeuppance, then it would be a mega, but I think big flop, big flop. Big flop, especially for the British government. Oh, man. Well, thank you so much to our high octane guests, Betsy Sodaro and Arjun Banerjee for joining us here on The Big Flop. And of course, thanks to all of you for listening.

If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review. Also, if you're listening on Spotify, I'd love for you to check out the poll we've posted along with this episode in the Spotify app. This year, we're debuting our very first annual award show. I'm so excited. And one of our categories is, of course, an audience choice for the biggest flop of the year. So go vote while you still can. We'll be back next week to talk about one woman's infamous turn from home living to prison living.

That's right, we're talking Martha Stewart's flop era. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go,

tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. The Big Flop is a production of Wondery and at Will Media hosted by Misha Brown produced by Sequoia Thomas, Harry Huggins, and Tina Turner, written by Anna Rubinova and Luke Burns, engineered by Zach Rapone, with support from Andrew Holzberger. Managing producer is Molly Getman. Executive producers are Kate Walsh and Will Mulnaty for At Will Media. Legal support by Carolyn Levin of Miller, Korzenik, Summers, and Raymond. Producers for Wondery are Adam Azarath and Matt Beagle.

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