The Big Flop - Segway: Ridin' Nerdy with Adam Rose | 41

Episode Date: June 24, 2024

Before it became the butt of countless jokes and the preferred transportation for mall cops, the Segway had grand ambitions. Its inventor, Dean Kamen, believed his self-balancing, two-wheeled electric scooter would change the way we get around, and ultimately eliminate the need for cars all together. But when the rubber met the road and consumers met Segway’s slow speed, short battery life, and general uselessness, sales fell off a cliff... and so did the CEO of the company while driving one.Adam Rose (Merry Happy Whatever, L.A.’s Finest) joins Misha to chat about Segway’s crash and burn.Follow The Big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Dean Kamen, an inventor, is brimming with excitement. He's been developing a super secret project, and it's about to hit the big time. He's booked a meeting with the world's most decorated movie director, Steven Spielberg. The master of cinema is developing a new movie, The $100 Million Futur futuristic thriller, Minority Report, starring Tom Cruise,

the original short king. The film is set decades into the future, so he's asked the world's most forward-thinking visionaries to pitch him on likely future technology to include in his movie. How about domesticated zebras? No. likely future technology to include in his movie. How about domesticated zebras? No, color-changing eye drops, paparazzi bots?

Kamen gives Spielberg the hard sell. There's a top secret device he's actually making in real life. It's called the Segway, a two-wheeled, gyroscoproscopic self-balancing transporter. It's the perfect mode of transportation for the futuristic cops in Minority Report. Hmm, Spielberg considers it. When Minority Report premieres in June of 2002, it has a ton of impressive looking gadgets.

Ones we're actually using today. Like touchscreens and self-driving cars. One thing it definitely doesn't have? Segways. Nope, Spielberg thought. They didn't look cool. Plus, Tom Cruise could probably run, maybe even walk, faster than one of those clumsy things. Despite ten years of development,

hype that ignited the Internet, and claims that they would change the world, Segway never took off. Dean Kamen wanted Tom Cruise. Instead, he got got Paul Blart? You may be familiar with the Segway. It sort of looks like an electric scooter. We think the Segway HT is the first real improvement

on walking since the invention of the sandal. But because of the no brake situation, I couldn't just stop, so I thought it best that I jump off. He was found dead at the bottom of a cliff. The company is stopping the production with less than two decades under its belt. We are on a sinking ship. From Wondery and at Will Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time.

I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar, who you won't catch riding dirty at Don't Cross a Gay Man. And today we're talking about the greatest invention since the wheel, because it has two wheels the Segway Ellis your favorite Murray's be honest. Andy. Number one. Colin. Number two, I take that.

Judy. Judy three, I'm happy to be above Judy. I don't even put me above Judy. Judy's a better person than me. I don't think I'm putting you above Judy. Ha ha, are you just being polite? I think you're in at number three, I was being polite. And I will, there are other Murrays out there,

so I will absolutely take that. But number one on your list was Andy Murray. So seeing as he was number one on your list, we'll scrap the idea of doing a three-part podcast on me. And in your sports career. And instead we'll do it in Andy Murray, the hunt for the Holy Grail, which is of course his first Wimbledon. I'd quite like to do a three-part series in your sports career. Age 12, Belfast and Colin Murray can't find his boot bag. It would be awful. This one isn't though, it would be great.

Because Andy Murray winning Wimbledon was one of those seismic moments in our lifetime in sport. Yeah, huge. Yeah, and so much to talk about in this three part series. So subscribe on Wondery Plus or wherever you get your podcasts. On our show today, we have a comedian. I'm so excited. You want to talk about social media superstar everyone. On our show today, we have a comedian. I'm so excited.

You want to talk about social media superstar, everyone, Adam Rose. Hi. Hey, thanks, Misha. How are you? I'm so good. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Before we start, if you could invent anything, what would be your ideal creation? Oh, I have a lot of like inventions that I've thought of.

Like they should make cupboards and kitchens, dishwashers. Why wouldn't the cupboards themselves be the dishwashers? What are we doing bringing one thing? It makes no sense. So that's the one invention that I would get cracking on. Wow, you would make coins. You'd make a lot of money with that invention. I think so, right?

I think it's great. I think so, right? I think it's great. By the way, if anybody out there decides to start making it, let's go havesies, all right? We can do this together. Don't steal it. Well, today we're going to learn about the rise and fall of the Segway, the futuristic scooter with a complicated reputation that ended up stalling out. Now, have you ever ridden a Segway?

Never. And I do not plan to. Same. My parents, I told them I was doing an episode on the Segway and they said, we know three people who have broken their legs. Oh, good. Good. So, unlike a lot of our recent tech related flops, this story takes place

outside of usual startup hubs like New York or Silicon Valley. It mostly happens in a set of riverside warehouses in New Hampshire, belonging to the wealthy and whimsical inventor Dean Kamen. Now, Dean, he's an interesting guy. A quirky, well-intentioned, genius engineer. So as a teenager, Dean instituted what he called a wardrobe freeze for efficiency sake. He decided he was going to wear one outfit every single day. And in his case, he chose jeans and a blue work shirt. And by the way, it's all my listeners, if this sounds familiar, you may have listened to our episode on another unfashionable entrepreneur, Elizabeth Holmes of Theranos,

who always wore the same black turtleneck. And if you haven't, what are you waiting for? Please go listen. Anybody who's wearing the same thing every day is just insane. And I'm... If... Anybody who doesn't know who I am is probably very confused by why I'm saying that. But I wear

the same thing in all my videos. I went with the cartoon look where you wear the same thing every single time. And now I never have to think about what I need to wear for a video or anything. The problem fixes itself. Yeah. The blue cardigan is almost as famous as Adam Rose himself. Probably more, if we're being honest. So Dean's first claim to fame is creating the drug infusion pump which helps deliver regular doses of medicine like insulin accurately and

consistently. I mean it's a huge deal and has helped countless patients live fuller lives so that's really incredible. So nice work Dean. Way to to go, Dean. By the way, he built that in his parents' basement using parts from Radio Shack. Wow. OK, so this guy is a genius. Oh, yeah, he's so interesting. He's a pretty cool guy. Wow.

Well, Dean made some serious money selling the drug infusion pump and other inventions. And with his fortune, he purchased a private island off the coast of New York State called North Dumpling. There's no way that's a real place. North Dumpling? I'm from New York State. I've never heard of North Dumpling.

I grew up in New York. I've never heard of North Dumpling because if I had, I'd be there right now. Well, Dean is very creative and quirky. For example, he declared North Dumpling to be a sovereign nation and himself to be Lord Dumpling. It has a national anthem and its own currency. Can you guess what the citizens of North Dumpling are called? Oh, man.

Potstickers? That would be so good. No, they're Dumplonians. That's pretty good also. I would not have come up with that. That's so good. No, they're Dumplonians. That's pretty good also. I would not have come up with that. That's pretty good. So going out on a limb here, but people who declare themselves sovereigns tend to be a

teensy bit controlling. And years working as an inventor make Dean a little paranoid. If a document or conversation about an invention in progress gets out to the wrong person, it could wipe out years of work. So, Dean decides to open a secretive development firm in New Hampshire called DECA, which is the first letters of his first and last name, Dean Kamen. Now, Dean's penchant for long production timelines

is one of his specialties. Quote, anything that's worth doing takes at least a decade, he always said. But the segue, the invention we're discussing today, is not something that takes Dean forever to dream up. It happens in an instant when Dean slips in the shower. As he slips, he instinctually pinwheels his arms and steadies himself before falling. Is this relatable or do you just fall

in the shower all the time? I thought we were gonna do like a little Doc Brown action where he falls, hits his head on the sink and that's when he came up with the flux capacitor. Yeah. Dean marveled at the body's ability to balance itself. So he decides to try and replicate that in a machine. And he decides to make a wheelchair that

can navigate uneven terrain without tipping over. It can lift its rider to the height of standing people, so the rider can speak to them at eye level and even climb stairs. This becomes the initial prototype for the Segway, but it's developed under the code name Fred. Fred. Any guesses as to why the name Fred?

Fred Flintstone? Hahaha. Maybe? Kicking those little feet? Because of the feet and the thing? That's a good one. Yeah, I don't know. Well, because of its proposed agility, the wheelchair concept is nicknamed Fred,

as in Fred Astaire, the famous dancer. Fred Astaire, oh, okay, I like that too. Okay, see, I'm warming up to it a little bit now. I am, yeah. Well, while Dean's engineers are working on Fred, they discovered that by standing on the device and leaning forward, it will zip forward with you on it. It feels really natural and more importantly, it's fun. Everyone who rides on it loves it. But it doesn't make sense for a wheelchair.

So they shelved that idea and years go by and in 1995 Dean sells Fred the wheelchair to Johnson & Johnson. So now Dean's flush with even more cash and he wants to go back to developing the standing Zippy thing that he was having so much fun with. Because he thinks this could be big. A new and better way for people to get around. So Dean becomes obsessed with the idea. He nicknames the invention Ginger.

Oh, Fred and Ginger. OK, here we go. Ginger Rogers. For Dean, Ginger has incredible potential. He genuinely thinks people will love the idea of getting around with Ginger, giggity. As a conservationist, he also wants it to replace cars. So if ginger takes off, it could solve city congestion, curb reliance on fossil fuels,

hell, it could save the environment. Do you buy it? Look, I think people enjoy moving around more than we give ourselves credit for. I think so too. Well, Dean made his fortune selling his inventions off to big companies. Who would then manufacture it, market it, and sell it? But this time, he does it a little differently. The ginger is his baby, and he wants to own it outright. So he takes on everything. Manufacturing, sales, marketing, all parts of the business he has no experience with.

And each month, he pours half a million bucks of his own money into development. He's so sure that this is going to be a gigantic success that he mortgages his own house to pay for its development. He's going to succeed or go bankrupt. So he really believes in it. Question, half a million bucks every month. he's going to succeed or go bankrupt. So he really believes in it. Question, half a million bucks every month. What's the biggest project you've wasted a ton of money on?

I made a short film once upon a time and it cost tens of thousands of dollars. And at the end of the day, I had a short film. It did lots of film festivals. It won some awards. It was like a bit, but like I should have just stretched out that money or spent a little bit more and made a feature film because now it's sort of lost in the ether when you make a short film, but a feature film like lasts for a while if it's good.

Well Dean, he's convinced that his invention is so brilliant and so potentially world-changing that any big company with enough engineering power like Honda or Ford could easily steal this idea and take it to market first. So Dean keeps prospective employees completely in the dark. Engineers who work for DECA have to commit to Dean's unknown project first and then move to New Hampshire before they ever find out what exactly they're making. Dean quietly files patent after patent and leases a 77,000 square foot factory. He hires lobbyists to convince politicians that it's definitely safe and legal to ride

stuff on the sidewalk. But the most important thing to Dean is the secrecy, and he's still not telling the public what he's working on. Have you ever been NDA'd for something really juicy? Oh yeah. Can't tell you about it, but... Didn't fall for the trap.

Well despite the information lockdown, rumors start to circulate that the wacky inventor Dean Kamen is cooking up something, a gadget so useful it could transform cities as we know them. Rich people are lining up for a slice of the action as they do. And one major investor, John Doerr, predicts that Dean will rack up a billion in sales faster than any company in history and that in five years, the company could be worth $5 billion. They think this is going to be bigger than the internet, and with all the investment it gets, it better be. As his big dreams for Ginger are looking more attainable by the day, Dean's thinking

ten scoots ahead. And he wants someone to write a book about his invention. A good book could boost sales and his own ego. So Dean invites a local journalist to be a fly on the wall during the development process. Does this make any sense? No. I mean, he wants a book written about the thing before anybody knows about it? Yeah. But Dean isn't paying the author. He's just giving him access.

So the author shops the book proposal around. The only problem is, his proposal doesn't say what the book is about. Just that it's going to be a mind-blowing new invention. To stoke more buzz, the author's agent decides to give Ginger a sexier code name. It. This guy's kind of a genius marketer, right? Like he's creating this buzz and this mystery around this thing.

The flip side to that is that you build up these expectations, right? People think this thing is gonna be so ubiquitous that we can just call it it. And there's no way it could live up to those expectations. Yeah. So it's like, it's already doomed for failure. The author, he does find a publisher

who's willing to buy the mystery book and shells out a quarter of a million dollars without knowing what it's about. And before long, word about the book deal gets out and the hype train officially leaves the station. Dean, in turn, becomes even more paranoid. He has to keep Ginger secret until it's ready. But what he should really be concerned with is the public's reaction. Now people, especially internet nerds, desperately want to know what

it is. So speculation swirls. Could it be an energy source? Could it be an anti-gravity device? Could IT be an energy source? Could IT be an anti-gravity device? You were aware of this zeitgeist of 2001. What do you remember about this time and what everyone was saying? I do remember people saying, is it going to be like a flying machine? I do specifically remember people saying it was going to be bigger than the internet. So it's a mystery. IT becomes one of the internet's first trending topics without its help.

Servers on gossip sites are crashing because of all the traffic. It becomes the fourth most searched topic on the Web. So this is January of 2001. Any guesses what the three topics that were more searched than it was? January. I don't know. Tell me. 2001 any guesses what the three topics that were more searched than it was January I don't know tell me so the first one was Britney Spears of Course mm-hmm second one was Napster. Oh my god. I was a big Napster user for sure Yeah, and the third one was Dragon Ball like Dragon Ball Ball Z? Yeah. Wow. Anime had a chokehold on society even then.

Even then. Doesn't it feel like we were so innocent back there? Those were the top three searches on the internet. Britney Spears. Oh my god. Yeah, you'm Hannah. And I'm Saruti. And we are the hosts of Red-Handed, a weekly true crime podcast.

Every week on Red-Handed, we get stuck into the most talked about cases. From Idaho student killings, the Delphi murders, and our recent rundown of the Murdoch saga. Last year, we also started a second weekly show, Shorthand, which is just an excuse for us to talk about anything we find interesting because it's our show and we can do what we like. We've covered the death of Princess Diana, an unholy Quran written in Saddam Hussein's blood, the gruesome history of European witch hunting and the very uncomfortable phenomenon of genetic sexual attraction.

Whatever the case, we want to know what pushes people to the extremes of human behavior. Like, can someone give consent to be cannibalized? What drives a child to kill? And what's the psychology of a terrorist? Listen to Red Handed wherever you get your podcasts and access our bonus shorthand episodes exclusively on Amazon Music or by subscribing to Wondry Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondry app. My name is Georgia King and I am thrilled to be the host of, and away we go, a brand new travel podcast on

Wondry Plus where we'll be whisked away on immersive adventures all around the world. Where we go, what we do, what we eat, drink, and listen to, will all be up to my very special guests. We've got Ben Schwartz taking us on a whirlwind trip around Disneyland. We'll eat a bowl of life-changing pasta

with Jimmy Oh Yang in Tuscany, Italy. And how do you feel about a spot of sugaring off with Emily Hampshire in Montreal? And away we go, we'll immerse you in some of the wonders of the world. We're gonna be seeing some yellows and vibrant oranges. And the shoes clicking against the cobblestone. If you're looking to get somebody in the mood,

have them look at the Chicago skyline. You can listen to And Away We Go exclusively with Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Georgia, do you know what joy sounds like? I think I'm hearing it right now. So while the world anxiously awaits Dean's futuristic world changing invention, Dean is dealing with staffing issues behind the scenes.

Within two years, he loses two presidents and a head of marketing due to bad fits and interpersonal issues. And there is no one to manage sales, which is particularly important when Dean says stuff like, quote, anything short of billions in sales would be a disappointment. And then the thing Dean feared the most finally happens. A meddlesome journalist, the type who always pops up in these flops, tracks down the patent applications filed by Dean and releases the images. And we happen to have that image. So let's take a look. And could you describe what we're looking at?

Oh, very interesting. Okay, so it's giving segue that we all know, but it's got three wheels actually that look like they probably rotate, I'm assuming so that they could like go upstairs and stuff like that. Now, take yourself back, you are a 2001 futurist. Are you excited about this thing? I mean, honestly, if I'm looking at this thing back in 2001. I'm going oh, it's a scooter It's a scooter. Yeah, right like it's a scooter that goes upstairs. I guess yeah, I would be like, okay I guess that's interesting. I don't know if that's gonna change the world. It's not bigger than the internet. Yeah the illustration clearly shows a scooter and The illustration clearly shows a scooter. And while some held out hope that it still might be some kind of hoverboard or perpetual

motion machine, most people come to grips with reality. It is going to suck. But the leak is mostly circling internet message boards. So Dean hasn't lost the general public yet. Remember, the internet was still not nearly as integrated into our daily lives as it is today. That's right. On December 3rd of 2001,

Dean is finally ready to show it to the world on an episode of Good Morning America. He settled on the name Segway, to communicate the way you'll Segway from one location to the next on this miraculous scooter. So with cameras rolling and a live studio audience, Dean's masterpiece waits on set behind a thin, dreary-looking curtain. With all the jerky grace of a child actor lifting off an amateur performance of Peter Pan,

the curtain rises. The hosts, a skeptical Diane Sawyer and stone-faced Charlie Gibson, wait for the big reveal. Not coming to grips that it's already happened. Let's watch a clip. Are you ready? I'm ready. I think it's time.

All right. Do we have to do something here? Ha! It does it's time. All right. Do we have to do something here? It does it by itself. Now, what does it do? This is the world's first self-balancing human transporter. It's like, who cares that it's self-balancing? You put things on four wheels, it doesn't need to self-balance all of a sudden. It doesn't make any sense. No one's asking for this.

So, the studio audience struggles to grasp what exactly they're looking at. And Dean isn't doing a great job selling his work. So let's watch a little more as Dean tries to explain what he's poured years of his life into and millions upon millions of dollars as well. It's sort of like putting on a pair of magic sneakers. You stand on this Segway HT and you think forward, you go forward. You think backward, you go backward. I'm tempted to say that's it. But that can't be it.

She said that's it? I'm tempted to say that's it. Byron Sawyer is fantastic. Is that it? That's it. What does it do? So you go forward and backwards, huh? Wow. Yeah.

That's amazing. So are we running out to buy a Segway after this segment? Oh, man, I got to see him on it. I want to see what this, I got to see how he displays this segment. Oh, man, I got to see him on it. I want to see what this, I got to see how he, how he displays this thing. Well, your wish is my command because they make their way into Bryant Park for a stupendously dumb synchronized segue demonstration performed by trained segue writers, and then Charlie and Diane get on their own segues. Let's watch.

Oh boy. Can I run into Charlie? Honestly, segues. Let's watch. Oh, boy. Oh, I'm sorry. Can I run into Charlie? Honestly, to see what it's like. Go! Little bumper. Kids will be kids. Bumper anchor is here.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Diane Sawyer on live television. My God. What are they doing? Yeah. So for the people listening at home, Diane Sawyer, she almost ate pavement. Eats it. Yeah. Yeah. Right at the end there. And they're like, cut away, cut to commercial, cut to somebody else quick. So without social media being what it was back then, how would you have done this reveal differently?

back then, how would you have done this reveal differently? Honestly, I don't know. I think the reveal is so tough. And again, it's what I was talking about before. You build something up so much and you tell people that it's going to change the world. You've set the bar so high that there's really no invention, you know, short of like an invisibility cloak or, you know, flying or something that people are going to be like, oh, whoa, okay, like that's, that is going to change the world. This is it's just a scooter. And again, I keep going back to this, like, it's self balancing, like what problem were they solving there? Like tricycles are self balancing. Like it doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, this is like the iOS update of inventions.

It's like we didn't, no one asked for this. We don't need it. Well, regardless, the segue is live. You can officially order one and Dean braces for all the customers who will surely clamor to make their neighbors jealous while gliding down the sidewalk. But let me ask you a question. How much would you pay for a Segway?

I'm assuming it's astronomical because he's trying to make his billion dollars back or whatever that he just spent on development. I would guess like $3,000, $4,000, something like that. Almost. It cost. Almost? It cost $5,000.

$5,000. In 2001. That's like $9,000 in today money. Oh, God. Yeah. I mean, just go buy a used car. Like what are you doing? Honestly, because due to its weight and gyroscopic tech,

Segway tops out at 12 miles per hour. So for $5,000 for a device that only doubles or triples a person's speed, you could buy a, what, used Toyota Tacoma for that much money. But hey, this is better than a car. It's compact and eco-friendly. You could commute to work breathing in fresh exhaust all the way. But wait, that brings me to another point.

Can you actually commute with this thing? How long do you think a charged up battery lasts? Oh no. Is it like an hour? Almost. You're kidding. Early uses report it only holds a charge for 45 minutes to two hours Oh my god. of continual use. Oh my god. It's also 80 pounds and miserable to lug around if the battery is dead. You get stuck downtown. No outlet to plug it into. Okay. I guess you live here now, Segway. See you later. So Dean figures these are just minor inconveniences people will get over once they're familiar with his brilliant invention. And there's a flurry of PR to help get the word out.

Russell Crowe and Sting ride one along with Jay Leno on The Tonight Show. Time Magazine gives the invention a seven-page spread. Well, to understand exactly how this segue was received, let's play a game. So I'm going to ask you some multiple-choice questions about how segue was portrayed in the media. And if you get them all right, we'll send you your own segue. Oh, perfect. I've been looking for a way to hurt myself. Yeah.

First question. The segue got its debut in December of 2001. Who was pictured riding the segue on the December 17th edition of The New Yorker? Was it A. Jennifer Aniston, B. Oprah, or C, Osama Bin Laden? Oh, I'm gonna go with B, Oprah. No! It was Jen Aniston? It was OBL himself, and let's take a look at this cover.

No, it wasn't. Wait a minute. I thought you were joking. I thought that was the joke. Oh my God. Second question. Before IT is unveiled, South Park's writers decide to riff on what IT could be. And on the show, Mr. Garrison invents a hamster wheel looking contraption known as the It Bike. What does a rider have to hold to operate it?

A, a cactus, B, fish sticks, or C, dildos. I'm sorry, what? I'm going with dildos. Ding, ding, ding. The rider has to simultaneously operate four dildos to make it work. Here's a photo. Please don't describe it. Please don't describe it. Okay. So there you are. All right. Number three, last question.

Which of these foolish sitcom characters is not seen riding a Segway on TV? A. Niles Crane from Frasier. B. Job Bluth from Arrested Development. Or J.D. from Scrubs. I'm going to go with Niles Crane. No. No? No, it was J.D. from Scrubs who famously rides a scooter named Sasha and wouldn't be caught dead on a Segway.

So I'm sorry, we're not gonna be sending you a Segway because you did only get one out of three. Ah, shucks. I was really hoping to break my neck. I know. So, for Dean, it's a gut punch, seeing his invention become a laughing stock. But he still believes in the segue, so he's going to do whatever he can to put one in every garage or wherever you're supposed to keep them. What would you do if you were Dean at this point?

Go shopping for new clothes. Yes. So Dean may have lost cool young people on the Segway, but he figures he can still sell it to large organizations that don't care how dorky they look. So he pitches the USPS, Amazon, the National Park Service, the City of Atlanta, and various police departments. He does have a small win in Tampa, where the Postal Service orders 40 segues for their

mail carriers. But the carriers quickly realized they need both of their hands to steer the scooter so they can't carry an umbrella nor can they sort mail as they walk, not very efficient. And with endless battery swaps, the Segway doesn't end up saving them anytime. Dean's bid to sell Segways to police departments falls flat because it turns out that bikes are cheaper and don't run out of batteries. Again, this is what happens when you're not solving a problem. Exactly. You know, like you're creating a problem that doesn't need solving.

Now, the issue of safety was a thorn in Dean's side as well. He always touted the Segway as something you could get on and intuitively understand, but there was enough of a learning curve that he decided to require a four-hour safety course. Except, you can only buy it online. Now, once the Segway is yours, there's nobody physically there to make sure that you're doing the training. So, while the Segway is pretty safe, there are still plenty of hilarious mishaps. Now, this is a photo of former president George W.

Bush riding a segue. I know it's blurry because it's from 2003, but can you describe what you think is happening? Okay. I see George Bush in very short shorts, might I say, getting on a Segway and very quickly falling off a Segway. And then in this last picture, it looks like he's running as fast as he can away from the Segway. You know that like the concept of like when you trip and stumble, like you look back at whatever you just tripped on? I feel like that's also what... Yeah.

Yeah. It's like, oh, how did that get there? How did this happen? Now, George W. Bush is famously clumsy. I mean, he did have plenty of notable injuries during his presidency, but I thought that was silly to see him falling off. So let's take a look at some professionals

using this thing responsibly and see how they fare. Here's a video clip. We'll show you how to work this thing. Oh, no. What a hazard. America's finest. Could you describe what those cops were doing? Well, seems like they got their hands on their first segue.

And they were, without watching the safety video, trying it out, seeing how intuitive it really is. And turns out, not so intuitive. And one of them gets on and is, you know, kind of jutting back and forth until he eventually falls over and the thing like tosses him off. Remember, this is 2001. We're still very much into Johnny Knoxville. And I feel like is this any different from folks getting silly and wiping out on their bikes and skateboards and...

We'll see those people were doing it on purpose on Jackass. You know what I mean? This is just turning everybody into unwitting Jackasses, you know? Yeah. Well, in fact, the danger element of Segway results in San Francisco banning Segways from sidewalks to stop the oncoming quote unquote Segway slaughter. Ugh. Which doesn't sound great.

On the flip side, riders get frustrated with confusing rules because police don't quite know what to do with segues. One segway rider reports that on one block, cops would yell at him to ride his segway in the street, and on the next block, they'd yell at him to ride it on the sidewalk. Yeah, I mean, when you're coming up with a new vehicle, then all of a sudden we got to create new laws for it. And he spent all that time with the lobbyists. Out of time. To what end? For what? it. And he spent all that time with the lobbyists. Out of time.

To what end? For what? Yeah. So the segue is floundering. Dean needs to do something to make it appealing to the public. And if there's one place that knows how to sex up boring stuff, it's Hollywood.

Totally. What movie would you put a segue into for effective product placement? Probably like Bad Boys, you know, just having Will Smith and Martin Lawrence cruising down Miami on their segues shooting people. That would have been great. You know? Yeah.

Dean wants the legendary director Steven Spielberg to incorporate the segue into his futuristic thriller Minority Report. Wow. Well, Spielberg, he invited inventors to brainstorm some technology that could plausibly exist in 2054. Dean's baby did not make the list. Oh, sorry, Dean. Would segues actually fit really well in a dystopian future?

Yeah, they might be the cause of the dystopia. Yeah. They might be how we get to annihilation of the human race. So, yeah, I guess so. Anyway, Dean's precious segue does eventually make it to the silver screen, most famously in Paul Blart Mall Cop, where Kevin James, the ineffectual man in blue, glides around a New Jersey mall on one. Not the product placement they were hoping for on the set.

Nothing screams cool like Mall Cop. They did get on the poster though. They did get on the poster, I think, right? That's true. I mean, most of the film is Blart gaining the courage to be a hero despite looking like a dork because of his Segway. Yeah. It became a big butt of jokes.

Very quickly it became a butt of jokes. Well all told, it cost $100 million to develop the Segway over 10 years and DEEN only sells about 30,000 units in seven years following its release. The amount of diseases we could have cured. Yeah. I mean, Jesus. Now sales figures do tick up to about 50,000 units in Segway's eighth year. Maybe Paul Blart actually did help.

They're like, you know, I do think that's pretty cool, actually. Malls across America now featuring the Segway. But by that point, Dean's given up on the idea, and he realizes he's never going to sell billions of dollars worth of Segways in his lifetime. One of the strangest episodes in the story of Segway comes in September of 2010, when the company's 10th CEO, Jimmy Heselden, is killed in a Segway accident. Oh, so it wasn't Dean, it was the CEO. It wasn't Dean, the 10th CEO.

Oh, wow. So, he's riding his Segway on a cliffside hike in the UK. When he tries to make room for another hiker with a dog, Heselden loses control and unintentionally drives off the cliff. So, hard to make a case for Segways after that. Honestly, it's like, what are you doing driving a vehicle on a cliff? So a few years pass, and in 2014, the struggling Segway company files a copyright complaint against a Chinese company Ninebot for allegedly stealing their patented technology.

And in a humiliating turn, Ninebot simply turns around and buys Segway. That is such a baller move. That's amazing. They're like, instead of settling this case, they're just like, all right, we'll just buy you guys. And Dean's like, uh, all right, we'll just buy you guys. Dean's like, all right, okay, fine.

I know. How embarrassing. So let's do a little where are they now? Segway Ninebot now manufactures the annoying rental scooters that people leave toppled over in the middle of traffic. Wow. okay. They discontinued the classic Segway PT back in 2020, but they do still sell some specialized ones for law enforcement and corporate use, as well as some nine-bot branded lookalikes. Dean Kamen, he's doing just fine. He throws big parties for rich people

and he still invents stuff, but he leaves behind a frustrated legacy. Many of his inventions had enormous potential to help people who really needed it, like the stabilized wheelchair Fred or a portable water purification device he developed later, but he never saw widespread acclaim with those. Fred, for instance, was just too expensive to be practical. But don't worry, he still makes things that will earn money too. Most notably, he's the brain behind the Coca-Cola

freestyle machines that let you mix flavors into your Coke. What? Yeah. This guy is pretty incredible. Yeah. What a large array of things that he's worked on. That is so wild. I know.

And I would just like to say, Dean, if you're listening to this episode, thank you so much. I love that machine. Well, it makes total sense because what did everybody do back in the day? You would go up to the soda machines and you would just like, get the whole mixture going and experiment and try new things. And he's like, well, let's just make the machine that does it for you. Genius.

Now here on The Big Flop, we do like to end on a high and be positive people. So are there any silver linings you can think of that came from this segue? It's always nice to get excited about something. And when you hear that there's something that could be bigger than the internet or could change the world forever, even if it doesn't turn out to be true, probably does get like your brain thinking like, oh, what could change the world? What could be bigger than the internet? So if nothing else, maybe for some inspiration,

I don't know. Love that. Yeah. Now that you know about the segue, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop or a mega flop? No, this is a mega flop, right? This was a worldwide story.

This was $100 million. This was Time Magazine. I mean, this is a mega, it doesn't get much floppier than this flop. That's true. It was pretty bad. I mean, Osama Bin Laden. Oh, I still don't get that part, but.

Well, thanks so much to our guest, Adam Rose, for joining us here on The Big Flop, and thanks to you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review. Next week, we're booting up The Big Flop time machine for a month of episodes about the most spectacular failures in history, starting with Watergate. Bye! I can't wait for that one. Thanks, Misha! If you like the big flop, you can listen early and ad free on Wondery Plus.

Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. The Big Flop is a production of Wondery and At Will Media, hosted by me, Misha Brown, produced by Sequoia Thomas, Harry Huggins, and Tina Turner. Written by Anna Rubinova. Engineered by Andrew Holtzberger. With support from Zach Grapone. Our story editor is Drew Beebe. Our managing producer is Molly Getman.

Our executive producers are Kate Walsh and Will Malnati for At Will Media. Legal support by Carolyn Levin of Miller, Korzenik, Summers and Raymond. Producers for Wondery are Matt Beagle and Grant Rudder. Story editing by Brian Taylor White. Coordinating producer is Mariah Gossett. Music supervisor is Scott Velazquez for Freesong Sync. Our theme song is Sinking Ship by Cake. And executive producers are Lizzie Bassett,

Morgan Jones, and Marshall Louie for Wondery. We are on a sinking ship. and Marshall Louie for wondering.