The Big Flop - Tonya Harding: On Thin Ice with Shannon Fiedler and Liza Treyger | 45

Episode Date: July 22, 2024

Figure skating rivals Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan were set to face off at the 1994 Olympics... but Tonya decided to try and eliminate the competition a little early. When a botched attempt to “kneecap” Kerrigan before the Olympics led back to Tonya and her inner circle of inept criminals, Harding was thrust into a media frenzy that spiraled into a triple axel of chaos.Liza Treyger (That's Messed Up, Survival of the Thickest) and Shannon Fiedler (Just Like Other Girls) join Misha to give their knee jerk reaction to Tonya's desperate attempt to win the gold.Listen to The Big Flop on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/the-big-flop/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to The Big Flop early and ad free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. On Super Bowl Sunday 1994, Kathy Peterson heads over to her restaurant, the dockside saloon just outside Portland. The place is closed, but Kathy's there early to tidy up. As she goes into the back, Kathy realizes again that some no-good kids have thrown their trash into her dumpster. There's gotta be at least ten full trash bags in there. Maybe Cathy should let it go.

But she just can't. She rolls up her sleeves and starts investigating. If she can figure out who the trash actually belongs to, she'll tell them what's what. But what the heck is this? A check made out to Tanya Harding? That's the famous skater. Harding's husband's address? Notes about some skating arena in Cape Cod? What is all this stuff? Wait, the Nancy Kerrigan attack has been all over the news. Is this somehow related? Is this the proof that Harding was actually involved in the assault?

Kathy can't be digging around in the trash all day, but she saves the debris and heads to a Super Bowl party to watch the Cowboys destroy the Bills. Of course, she tells everyone there what she's found, and of course they've been following the crazy story, too. Olympic figure skaters don't normally get hits placed on them. Word gets out, and over the next few weeks, the news media swarms Cathy. She gives over 60 interviews, mostly while serving reporters lunch at her saloon. The reporters can't believe how harebrained this scheme is and how stupid the assailants are. This little trash dig is helping solve a big mystery. And what a great PR windfall for the restaurant.

Harding's ex-husband, her bodyguard and two men are charged with plotting the attack on Nancy Kerrigan. Before the attack on Kerrigan, he reportedly bragged about dangerous exploits. Did someone say we should kill Nancy Kelligan? Why doesn't somebody take her out? Tonya herself says that she did not know a thing about the attack. The only message I can say is just keep believing in me.

Why didn't you go to authorities immediately? Everything just happened so fast. It just, boom, everything. Why? Why? Everything. Why? Why? We are on a sinking ship. From Wondery and Atwill Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs,

fails, and blunders of all time. I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar and all laced up at Don't Cross a Game Ad. And today we're talking about the Tanya Harding Olympics conspiracy. On our show today, I'm so excited. We have a comedian and actress. She's the co-host of That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast. It's Lisa Traeger. Welcome to the show, Lisa.

Wow. Thank you so much. I'm really excited. Also on the show today is a fantastic comedian and host of Just Like Other Girls, it's Shannon Fiedler. Welcome, Shannon. Thanks for having me, Misha. Excited to be here. So I have a question. Have either of you ever had a rival? Of course.

I've had a lot of enemies. I'm trying to think if it's rival level. Also, it's like embarrassing, because I think it's just one way, and I don't think these people think about me, so... LAUGHING Okay, well, how far would you go to ruin them? Not far at all.

Yeah, not at all. Same. I would do literally nothing. Well, this is a story about two women who embodied opposite sides of the tracks or rather ice rink, I guess. And it's one of the most infamous Olympic stories of all time. So let's go back to the early 90s when US figure skating is everything. Everything. Every little kid wants a shiny new pair of ice skates, yours truly included.

I had Kristi Yamaguchi roller blades and they were white and like the accents were a nice teal aquamarine and purple. Misha, I don't know if you knew this before having me on the show, but I spent my whole youth as an elite figure skater. Wow. So this is in my wheelhouse or my ice rink, if you will. What was your favorite trick? Oh my God, I was a sow cow girl.

That is, I was all about the choreography and the artistic, which is not surprising, but my favorite jump was the triple sow cow. Yeah. A lot of practice. Kudos to you, Shannon. Yeah. Congratulations.

Thanks, guys. The US sweeps the top three spots at the 1991 World Championships with none other than Christy Yamaguchi in first place. So Christy snags the gold at the 1992 Olympics as well. I mean, she's America's sweetheart, the queen of figure skating, obviously the queen of rollerblades. But just when Christy seems to be unstoppable, she announces she's retiring

from the competition circuit, leaving a gaping Yamaguchi shaped hole in America's heart. So it's all well and good for Christie that she gets to figure skate off into the sunset. But who's going to be the new face of the sport? Well the two main contenders are Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding, who placed second and third at the 1991 World Championships behind Christie. And due to an Olympics restructure, their next chance to become Olympic royalty is only two years away rather than four. That's pretty lucky.

Pretty lucky. Now, Nancy is absolutely beloved. Classically beautiful, elegant, charming, she's the clear heir to the throne, if you will. Her skating style is almost ballerina-esque with strong technical proficiency. She's already won the Olympic bronze the same year Christy took gold. So she's already raking it in with endorsements from companies like Campbell Soup, Revlon, things like that.

So she's doing really well for herself. Tanya, on the other hand, is not raking it in at all, but she desperately needs to. So on the one hand, she's an incredible athlete. She's fierce, she can jump like no other skater, and she's the first woman to attempt and succeed at the legendary triple axel, jumping up and spinning three and a half times in the air before touching back down. Which, I couldn't do that on my two feet.

That's incredible. Pretty big feet. Did you ever attempt a triple axel? No, I never got that far. That is a hard move. I get chills when I think about her landing that jump. So, Tanya's life also, it hasn't been especially easy. She doesn't come from money and she appears a bit disheveled compared to other ice skaters.

To put it lightly. She's trash. No, but there are reports that her mom was abusive, though her mother denies these claims, and her romantic partner, Jeff Galuli, is a complete a-hole. I mean, with a name like Galuli, you don't have many options.

No. But on the whole, people think that she's, quote, trashy because of her homemade outfits and brash attitude, and Tanya suspects her scores aren't as high because of her appearance. So let's take a look at Nancy and Tanya side by side. And if you could talk about it. I think she looks great and fun and I would wear that. And Nancy Kerrigan gives off Republican vibes.

100%. Nancy Kerrigan also looks like she could be the ad for like Dove Skincare in a magazine and Tonya Harding in this picture. That dress looks like a movie theater carpet. It's just tough. You know, if it was today, I bet a young thriving stylist or hair or makeup would die at the chance to work with Tonya Harding, you know? But 90s was pre-stylist era. It's just not as refined and elegant in comparison to Nancy, but I would root for her. You gotta root for her.

That's just sadly what I would wear. So that's tough to hear. No, same. I like a little bit of color. Wait, I have a question. I'm so sorry. Okay. If Nancy and Tanya were made into a Broadway musical, but using the catalog of an artist, kind of like a Mamma Mia, who do you think the music should be? Oh, my gosh. I mean, the 90s.

Celine Dion would be great. Yes! That would be so good. Oh, it's gotta be Britney Spears. Hit me, baby, one more time. Right in the knee. Shania Twain. Shania would be good. Man, it's gotta be Britney Spears. Hit me baby one more time. In the knee. Right in the knee. Shania Twain. Ah, Shania would be good. Man, I feel like a woman.

Yeah. Okay, hell yeah. That would be good. A little bit of Celine and a little bit of Shania for the two characters. I'm seeing it. So another point, Hollywood would love to frame these women as like best friend turned enemies,

but most real accounts say they're more like professional acquaintances, you know, kind of exchanging pleasantries in the break room. Well, they're from opposite sides of the country as well, right? Yeah, so I don't think Hollywood wanted us to believe that, but not true. Exactly.

So it's late 1993 and the Winter Olympics are just around the corner. And a gold medal isn't just a point of pride, it could mean millions of dollars in endorsements. And Tanya could really use that money, but she helplessly watches Nancy outshine her on the ice and in the media. And Tanya's under a lot of pressure,

not just from herself, but from her on-again, off-again husband-de-jure Jeff Galuli. And the relationship is messy. Galuli decides Tanya must be the one to get gold, and she has to be the new face of figure skating. And he's going to make sure that she wins by any means necessary. If your partner was training for the Olympics, how would you help?

Stay out of the way. Yes. Cook her some egg white breakfast, high protein, and then peace out. Some people dream of being in the Olympics, but like it is a dream to just be on the screen cheering. Like I do love when they turn to like gymnastics moms and dads losing their minds. I would hope to be that kind of a person to my Olympic spouse.

So before we get into this, I just a disclaimer that a lot of behind the scenes information is conflicting testimony from a group of convicted criminals. Most trustworthy of sources. Take that with a grain of salt. But also thanks in advance to Matt Crossman who wrote a very informative timeline for the Bleacher Report which helps us tell the story today. So let's get into it. Galuli schemes up a plan to take Nancy Kerrigan out of the equation. Permanently.

He wants to stop her from qualifying for the Olympics altogether, and he's willing to disable her to do it, but he realizes he can't do it alone. So he hires a friend from grade school to do the dirty work, and his name is Sean Eckhart. Now, Eckhart is a character. He's 26, out of shape, seemingly a delusional couch warrior. Imagine, like, a real- life Dwight Schrute from The Office or like Mac from It's Always Sunny.

He's like a wannabe badass who claims to have special training. Do you know anybody who's an aspiring bodyguard? No. Right, cause it's strange. That's such a weird, what do you want to be when you grow up? A bodyguard.

Yeah. So Eckhart is a college student and he drives a beat-up 1976 Ford Mercury and says he runs a bodyguard business out of his parents' home in Oregon. But if you took a peek at his supposed resume, which is chock full of spelling errors by the way, you'd think that he was Jason Bourne. Eckhart, he's a resume-embellishing genius, and to understand how far he's willing to take it, let's play a game. Oh, yes.

It's quite simple. Here are the rules. I'm just going to ask some multiple choice questions about Eckhart's claims, and whoever gets the most correct wins, we'll send you to the next Winter Olympics. First question. In an interview with Diane Sawyer, Eckhart literally says his, quote, training and education has been in the areas of counter-espionage and, A, counterintelligence, B, counterterrorism, C, counterinsurgency, or D, counterfitting? Counterterrorism. Well, do I answer now?

Your reaction kind of made me feel like she was right, maybe. Well, ding, ding, ding. It was counterterrorism. He claims he's been, quote, quoted as an expert in terrorism trends in a travel magazine. I didn't know travel magazines reported on that. Who knows if they actually do? All right, second question. Between 1984 and 1987, Eckhart claims to have worked for the Blackstone Corporation as a contract operations specialist in Switzerland.

Why is this unlikely? Is it A, because Eckhart was a teenager at the time? B, because Blackstone Corporation doesn't have an office in Switzerland? C, because he was recovering from mono that year? Or D, all of the above? All of the above. I was going to go with B, but you know, all of the above always. Well, that was a trick question because we always go for all of the above.

Actually, it was only A and B that were correct. Although we don't know his medical history, so maybe he was recovering from mono that year, who don't know his medical history, so maybe he was recovering from manna that year. Who's to know? All right, third question. Eckhart plays up his training at Executive Security International, a correspondence school for bodyguards. But why shouldn't he? Is it A, because he flunked out?

B, because he never enrolled? C, because he could no longer afford to go. Or D, because the school doesn't exist. I'm going D. I got a second bet. No. It does exist, but he was kicked out in 1992 after being enrolled for three whole years. The school's training manager says, quote, Eckhart just couldn't keep up with the training, and we terminated him.

Whoa. ["WINNING COMBO"] Well, what Eckhart lacks in competence and experience, he makes up for with enthusiasm. Always a winning combo. Uh-huh. He sees the gig to take out Tanya's rival Awesome. Always a winning combo. He sees the gig to take out Tanya's rival as an opportunity to promote his bodyguard business.

Oh my God. But every figure skater is going to want protection after the attack. And after Tanya wins the Olympics and becomes famous, Eckhart will be seen on TV as her personal bodyguard. In essence, creating his own demand. So, what a business plan. Is he a marketing genius? Are we just selling him short? Galaxy brain over here. Well, since Eckhart isn't as tough as his resume makes him out to be,

he gets in touch with a former employer, Derek Smith, who in turn hires his 22-year-old nephew, Shane Stant, to do the actual hitting. Be the hitman, if you will. Stant is promised $6,500 and a bodyguard job once it's all over. Now initially, Stant is asked to slice Kerrigan's Achilles tendon. That's shit you'd see on Oz. I don't know if you guys used to watch that. Yeah. Prison show.

The prison show. They did that. But even for a man willing to hurt someone for money, it was too gruesome for him. So Stan says, well, I'm willing to break a bone. That's the respectable way to go about this, Stan. What's the biggest crime that you'd commit to get a job? Not even your dream job, just a job.

I steal for joy sometimes, so like maybe like minor theft from an airport. Nice. Like a magazine. Yeah. I'm like the most obsessive rule follower of all time. Like I would literally just like be like, oh, I'll be unemployed for the rest of my life before I so much as trespass.

You're like, I might go three miles an hour over the speed limit to get there on time. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. My name is Georgia King and I am thrilled to be the host of And Away We Go, a brand new travel podcast on Wondry Plus, where we'll be whisked away on immersive adventures all around the world. Where we go, what we do, what we eat, drink and listen to will all be up to my very special guests. We've got Ben Schwartz taking us

on a whirlwind trip around Disneyland. We'll eat a bowl of life-changing pasta with Jimmy Oh Yang in Tuscany, Italy. And how do you feel about a spot of sugaring off with Emily Hampshire in Montreal? And away we go, we'll immerse you in some of the wonders of the world. We're gonna be seeing some yellows and vibrant oranges.

And the shoes clicking against the cobblestone. If you're looking to get somebody in the mood, have them look at the Chicago skyline. You can listen to And Away We Go exclusively with Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Georgia, do you know what joy sounds like? I think I'm hearing it right now. Well, Smith, Stand, Eckhart, and Galuli meet at Eckhart's parents' house to discuss the plan.

Because Eckhart is a quote, trained badass, he takes extra precautions. In the event Galuli refuses to pay, or worse, turns on them, he secretly places a tape recorder under a paper towel. Genius. Eckhart later says in an interview that Galuli wanted to, quote, take Nancy out. But somehow cooler heads prevail in this meeting. Now, Galuli knows enough about figure skating from Tanya to know that the right leg is Nancy's landing leg. And hurting her leg at the championships would be enough to keep Nancy from skating.

She wouldn't be able to qualify for the Olympics, making room for Tanya to win it all. The plan is that while the assault goes down, Galuli will take Tanya to lie low and avoid suspicion. Tanya soon reports a death threat and withdraws from a competition, making it seem like figure skaters, including Tanya, are being targeted.

Whose idea was that? Well, in the movie I, Tanya, Eckhart makes the phone call so that Galuli can hire him as Tanya's bodyguard. But in reality, who the caller is, whose the movie I, Tanya, Eckhart makes the phone call so that Galuli can hire him as Tanya's bodyguard, but in reality, who the caller is, whose idea it is, or whether or not it was a real threat still remains a mystery. Got it. Now, as the figure skating championship in Detroit approaches, Nancy is training in Cape Cod.

So, Stan's directive is to stake out the arena where Nancy is supposed to be, pop in, break her femur, and get the hell out. Easy peasy. Just another day in the office of Stant Galuli's bodyguards. So Stant, he makes it to Boston and checks into a hotel under his own name, already leaving a paper trail. Good. So now he needs some wheels. Easy. But he's forgotten his credit card back in Oregon.

Oh, God. Only once his girlfriend mails him one can he finally rent a car. You're kidding. No. So by the time Stant gets on the road to Cape Cod, Nancy's two hours in the other direction heading to Boston to fly to Detroit. Now, nobody thought that maybe Nancy might want to head to Detroit early to get to Nationals, especially Stant who spends days staking out the, not knowing that Nancy's already long gone.

That's the funniest thing. Oh, my God. Finally, after sitting around in his rental for days, he calls the arena and asks if his fictional daughter can meet her hero Nancy, and that's how he finds out that he's missed her. I want to know how he was feeling in that moment, or too dumb to realize. Yeah. Or that he thought that her. I want to know how he was feeling in that moment, or too dumb to realize. Yeah.

Or that he thought that was gonna work. Yeah. Even if she was still there. So, Stant, with his tail between his legs, he heads back to Boston, drops off his car, and hops a bus to Detroit, where he rendezvouses with his uncle, Derek Smith. And this is the last chance these goons have to take her out.

The championship is only days away. So the two find Nancy and work up a plan of attack, complete with secret signals, an escape route, and a getaway car. When it's time, Stant follows a cameraman into the back, slinks behind Nancy through a curtain, walks straight up and takes a big swing with his retractable baton. Now Stant hits her right above the knee, feels nothing break and knows immediately that he's failed. I mean, come on, you had one job.

Not even a hard one. Not even a hard one. Not even a hard one. Have you ever failed miserably at something that was a very straightforward task? Probably dozens of it for years. Yeah, I would say. I would say constantly nonstop. Well, Nancy is obviously terrified. She's in pain and her knee and quad tendon are bruised and she cries out

for help and she famously screams, why, why? Over and over again. So sad. She's confused, panicked and unsure if her career is over. But one thing is clear. Her bone is not broken. But Stant can't go back and try again. He needs to get the hell out of there. So as he darts towards his escape, he realizes he's stuck. The door he was hoping to leave through has been chained up. And basically everyone in the arena is now chasing after him. So what do you think he does? He goes to the bathroom.

He gets on the ice. He starts skating. Well, that would be funny. Stant uses his head. For once. No, not his brain. His literal head. His head. Battering ram style.

Yeah. He bashes through a plexiglass panel in the door and bursts through to the snowy sidewalk outside. Oh my god. See, he's a villain, so I don't want this to go well for him, but I am mesmerized at how many bad decisions one person can make in a week's time. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so now he's tumbling onto the snowy sidewalk. He just tosses his weapon under a random car, finds his uncle and they drive off, leaving Nancy, the arena and the entire world in shock. Now, if you were in this little crew of conspirators, do you think that you're gonna get away with it? I'm sure he does.

As a sane person, no. Yeah, as a normal person. If I think I own my own bodyguard shop, I think I've committed the world's best crime. Well, despite all of the incompetence, Stant did accomplish something. Nancy didn't skate in the qualifying event. And while Galuli's team does the dirty deed, Tanya focuses on the US championships. And apparently, unlike Stant, she works well under pressure. She wins the gold and is definitely headed to the 1994 Olympics. But Nancy could be a threat in the future because she's already on the mend. And the authorities

easily find her a silence. Why? Because in addition to being the world's least qualified bodyguard, Eckhart is also the world's dumbest criminal alive. First, he brags about his scheme to his parents. How would your parents react if you were like, hey... That I hit Nancy Kerrigan? They'd be pissed. Yeah, I have a criminal conspiracy.

Yeah. Mind my tattle. Yeah, they'd be pissed. Yeah, I have a criminal conspiracy. Yeah. Mind m'tattle. Yeah, straight up tattle. He then tells his friend, a 24-year-old pastor named Gene Saunders. Not a pastor. They love telling the truth. Eckhart even plays Saunders, the clandestine recording he made of the logistics meeting. Naturally, this is another thing that Eckhart has screwed up because the recording is so bad and is impossible to understand.

I mean, dude, he placed it under a towel. So at first, Saunders doesn't believe Eckhart and thinks he's just embellishing as he normally does. But after Nancy's pummeling makes international news, things change. Saunders connects the dots and urges Eckhart to go to the FBI, which he says no. So Saunders goes to the FBI himself, and when it's time for him to ID Eckhart, Saunders tells the feds that's easy. Why?

Why would it be so easy to identify him? Because he lives in his mom's basement and never leaves? No, because he's on TV standing right next to Tanya Harding, just as he planned, you know, for the bodyguard business. That guy, right there. It's all over all of the news stations. So that's a pretty good lead. But the FBI, they need more proof, maybe a confession. They get Saunders to wear a wire

and meet up with Eckhart in a restaurant. Very much like a movie. But just because Eckhart is dumb doesn't mean he isn't dangerous. According to Saunders, when the two go to meet up, the feds tell him that Eckhart has a gun in the car and they warn him, don't leave with Eckhart or we won't be able to protect you. So when Eckhart enters the restaurant, he immediately asks Saunders to go for a ride. It's almost hilarious. But Saunders, he avoids harm and gets Eckhart to talk a little bit. And the FBI apprehends him just a few days later.

So he's now in custody. Do you think he keeps his cool since he's, you know, so hardcore? I'm sure he says, I'm not speaking till my lawyer gets here. JK. I think he is spilling the beans. I think he's courting the cameras. He's ready for his close up. He does in fact, spill all of the beans.

And not only that, he implicates the entire gang of them, including Tanya. Now, that day, Eckhart and Derek Smith are arrested for conspiracy to commit second degree assault. Now, immediately, journalists swarm Portland to get the scoop. And they're not disappointed. There's so much drama to mine from all of this. There's the evil mastermind, the fabulous bodyguard, the messy relationship between the two main suspects. Is Tanya that innocent wife or is she the evil step-sister to Nancy's princess persona?

I mean, was she kept in the dark about the plan or was it her idea? Do you have any memories of this quintessentially 90s scandal? I'm a little too young to remember it from real life, but... Well Shannon, weird, I think you're breaking up. I think we'll thank you for being here so much. I know, I hated myself as I said it. I was like, should I just lie? I can lie here.

I could pull a galooly or whatever the other guy's name is and just make shit up, but... I am so curious how pissed Nancy Kerrigan is that everyone feels bad for Tanya Harding now. Or like I've been scrolling on Google images looking at photos of them and there's one thing that's like who's the real victim and it's like it's still Nancy. Like I know she's pretty and rich, but like she is the victim. She was attacked. Yeah.

She was attacked out of nowhere. Yeah. Just walking. Like I know Tanya was poor and had frizzy hair, but yeah. And I remember her, like I remember the screaming. I mean, it really was such big news. It really was. It's shocking.

Well, cause the thing is figure skating is seen as this sport that is so, like, prim and proper and beautiful and everybody has ballet hands and it's sort of like these little fairy women dancing about and then if you've ever spent more than five minutes in an ice rink, you know that the claws come out pretty fast. But I think to the rest of the world, the fact that something like this could happen in an ice rink was so unbelievable. Yeah.

Now, as the world is devouring every last morsel of this news, the legal walls close in on the co-conspirators. Tanya separates from Galuli, who has turned himself in. In addition to the Nancy attack, Tanya accuses him of abuse, which Galuli denies. The FBI starts playing everyone against each other. Now, this is not a squad of tight-lipped gangsters from a Scorsese movie. This crew is falling all over themselves to rat each other out. Eckhart blames Galuli and Tanya. Galuli implicates Tanya and the group. Tanya defends herself by saying Galuli planned it all

and is generally terrifying. So it's messy. Now, Eckhart's lawyer defends his client and says, he's a victim caught up in something beyond his comprehension. He's just not smart enough to have planned this crime. That's the most embarrassing alibi I've ever heard. Pleading stupidity.

Do you know what? It's a common theme here on the show. Wow. Really? Just not smart enough. Well, not always in court, but that's the people's defense for why things flop all the time. We're not that smart.

I love that. I'm going to use that next time I really fuck up. It all works until January 30th, when a Portland restaurant owner named Kathy Peterson discovers some bags in her dumpster that she doesn't recognize. And she spots the name Jeff Galooly written on some of the garbage, and she recognizes it immediately because of the media circus around Nancy's attack. The garbage turns out to include notes written in Tanya's handwriting that implicate her in the planning, like the phone number and the name of the arena

where Nancy's hit was supposed to take place. So Kathy calls the authorities. This trashy treasure trove is the FBI's biggest break to date. Now other than statements from the skevious people on Earth, they didn't really have hard evidence. But now they do. So back at the Kerrigan house, Nancy is doing surprisingly well. The news about her silly attackers actually cheers her up because every

time she reads about Eckard's boasting or stance trouble with simple tasks like renting a damn car, she feels better. These idiots aren't the scary monsters she imagined. And her legs already healed. So it was just a hard hit above the knee. Yeah. There was really no damage. It was like a bruising. Just a bruise. She screamed really loud. She was really screaming.

So maybe she is a drama queen, but she didn't skate. So, I mean, it's it's too bad that, you know, she didn't make the qualifier and get to go to the Olympics. Right. But she did, didn't she? Yes, she did.

Because her teammates offer her a spot, because I guess you can just do that. Regardless, Nancy and Tanya will compete against each other in the 1994 Winter Olympics. That's so crazy. Is this like the highest rated Olympics of all time? Are people just like dying to watch this showdown? The highly anticipated 1994 Winter Olympics

are underway in Lillehammer, Norway. Tanya and Nancy will compete against one another in the same event. It's the biggest showdown since Rocky versus Drago. What's the most intense matchup that you've been excited to watch? Oh, my God. I mean, I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, so, like, 90s Bulls basketball was really huge, too. Like, that was such a thrill.

Um, loved that era. Brittany versus Christina in the Pop Princess Wars. Although, do you remember when, was it Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg were talking about fighting each other? I try to forget. That would have been funny. To make things more dramatic, the assault investigation is still ongoing, and Tanya publicly

maintains her innocence. So as both ladies ready themselves for competition, Tanya's ex-husband, Galuli, pleads guilty to racketeering and is sentenced to two years in prison and fined $100,000. Whomp, whomp. At the Olympics, there are a zillion news crews capturing the suspense. Like literally they're packed into the balcony like sardines watching these two women practice.

And Tanya and Nancy largely ignore each other. Could you imagine being another skater in the Olympics? Like some random woman who qualified from Sweden who's like, I'm just trying to have my best skate. While there's like an FBI investigation. They're just like, Jesus Christ, America, get your shit together. Can you guess what the first biggest TV broadcast in US history is? Okay, is it scripted or is it like an event? An event. It's an event that did bigger numbers than this.

That's not the Super Bowl. This is kind of exciting. Is it like when JFK was shot? It's actually at the time. It's not a now thing. Oh, OJ Simpson or Rodney King? Yes! Yes, it was the OJ Simpson's murder trial. Speaking of OJ, go check out last week's episode, everybody.

At the Olympics, Nancy trolls the Tanya camp by wearing the same outfit she wore when she was assaulted. Take that. Damn. That is petty on another level. Honestly, suddenly I'm into Nancy right now. I know. Damn.

She also nails her routine. It's the comeback story everyone is hoping for, and she's up for a medal for sure. Can Tanya still outskate her? Well, first, she has to make it to the rink. On day two, when it's time for Tanya to come out, she's just not there. She's gone. Is she overcome with guilt on her way to a country

with no extradition treaty? No, it's much more pathetic. Turns out she broke a lace on one of her skates and has been backstage freaking out trying to fix it. Because there's a time limit, and she only has seconds to get to the ice, or she forfeits. End of story. Can you imagine having a worse day?

But in a turn of luck for Miss Tanya, she makes it just in the nick of time. Now Tanya gets out there, tying her lace again as she slides into the middle of the rank and starts her routine. She's mumbling something about breaking her ankle. Also, just a funny detail, she skates to music from Jurassic Park. Also just a funny detail, she skates to music from Jurassic Park. So let's watch her skate. Oh my god, exciting. The announcer can tell our listening audience what's going on. She had problems with the technical program, reaches back with the right foot, single.

She looked down at her skate, it looked like she was uncomfortable and I think she's gonna quit. How devastating, it's so difficult to compose yourself when you're late, name has been introduced. This is so unheard of to approach the judges mid-program. Cause like I think in other sports, so unheard of to approach the judges mid-program. This is, cause like I think in other sports, people talk to the refs all the time, right? Like this is beyond, you don't do this.

And yeah, cause what are the options? They're going to be like start over girl. Like what is she thinking? And I guess the loose skates a big deal, right? For sure. Is it? For sure. Is it? If it's not tight enough. So does she finish it?

This is crazy. Well, this is the moment that goes viral. I mean, at least as viral as pre-internet news can get. And Tanya, she's in tears. She swings that foot up to the judges to show her skate is messed up. Some might call it karma. Well, not only that, even the announcer is just like, oh, poor girl.

And I'm like, are we already feeling for her? Like, didn't she just hit Nancy? I just don't, I don't get how we're even allowing this. It's so strange. When she be kicked out of competition, you're being investigated for attacking a teammate. You're out of here, right? You can't even smoke weed. Innocent till proven guilty.

Oh, I get it. Okay, okay. I guess, but so, mercifully, they do grant her time to fix it. And then she comes back and she nails her routine. Is it enough to beat Nancy? No. Nope. Her day one score was too low and she finishes in eighth place. So Nancy wins the gold, right? Yeah.

No, wait. No. And they all lived happily ever after. No. Unfortunately, Nancy doesn't get her Hollywood redemption either, but she gets a silver medal at the frickin' Olympics. It's very close and even debatable whether she should have won gold, but she's beaten by none other than 16-year-old Ukrainian skater,

Oksana Bayul. So, Oksana wins by a fraction of a point. Whoa. I'm on the edge of my seat. I know. It's just a fraction of a point. Just. I'm on the edge of my seat. I know. It's just a fraction of a point. Just give Nancy the gold. Come on. But how does that ending sit with you? We were on Oxana Household.

But also, at the end of the day, I mean, you're the skating expert on this panel. Was Tanya a better skater than Nancy? That, okay, that's a really hard question. Like, not talking comedy here, that's a hard question because skating is graded on two scales. You have your technical scale and you have your artistic scale. You couldn't touch Tanya on the technical scale. She had a triple axel, nobody else did.

That's like the most points. In the less subjective realm, she kind of crushed it. However, there's this artistry component and it's hard to tell who was better. I also, I don't know how she, you said her day one, which would be her short program. Maybe she fell, and then that could have been it too. So two weeks later, Tanya's now back in the States, and the FBI comes for her.

She pleads guilty to conspiracy and hindering prosecution. The judge handling Tanya's case spares her jail time. She gets probation and a hefty $160,000 fine. Over the next several weeks, Derek Smith and Shane Stant plead guilty to conspiracy to commit second degree assault and are sentenced to 18 months in prison. Eckhart also gets 18 months for racketeering. Galuli got two years. How do we feel about the guy with the baton getting less time than the guy who paid him to do it? Strange. Very weird.

Maybe, maybe about the diminished capacity or something. Yeah, he's just too dumb. You know, he's not gonna harm anybody else, he's too dumb. He would've got more time if he actually hit her, where he was supposed to hit her. Yeah. So in June, Tanya is stripped of her championship titles and banned for life from the U.S. Figure Skating Association,

ending her career and losing her life's work forever. Hope it was worth it. So let's do a little Where Are They Now? After the controversy, the world grew bored of Nancy Kerrigan, naturally. She was recast as the spoiled princess in the public eye, but she kept skating and raked in those endorsements. Still, she wishes she was more remembered for her two Olympic medals than being struck by a neft criminal as we all would.

Yeah, shut up. Tanya tried many ways to move on. In a stunt that totally tracks, with the planners of this cockamamie assault, Galuli and Tanya released a sex tape through Penthouse. Resourceful. Resourceful. It's called Wedding Night. How romantic. She formed a band called the Golden Blades, but she was booed off the stage at their only performance. Oh my God. Tough.

So Tanya beat Paula Jones on Fox's Celebrity Boxing. I did know she went, she found another sport. Yeah. Her win led to a brief career as a professional fighter. Yeah, she, I mean she is an athlete, you know. Yeah. In 2017 she walked the red carpet at the premiere of the I, Tanya movie based on her life. I loved that movie. It's an unbelievably good movie. Yeah, loved it. She was of course portrayed by Barbie herself, Margot Robbie.

I mean, that's a pretty good poll for a celebrity playing you. Wouldn't you agree, Margot Robbie? That's best case scenario. Best case. So here on the Big Flop, we try to be positive people and end on a high. So are there any silver linings that you can think of that came about from this busted crime? A lot of good Halloween costumes through the decades. Got a lot of people interested in figure skating. Always a silver lining for me.

And got Alison Janey her Oscar. I don't know if that was her first, but she earned the Oscar. Yeah, she fucking did. So we were thinking, we do have to remember that Tanya was in her early 20s when all of this went down, and she's had a lot of time to reinvent herself, and it seems to have worked. You know, we love her redemption arc. She did receive much more empathy in the last decade than the previous two. Like so many of these media pylons, over time, we've had a chance to reflect on what made the story so compelling and our natural biases. You know, with a little more perspective, most aren't as quick to demonize folks like Tanya as much.

I don't know if we're any nicer to people. Oh, we're for sure not, but we can... But it's a nice thought. We also thought private security is now a $400 billion industry, so there's hope for all the aspiring bodyguards out there. So now that you both know about the Tanya Harding conspiracy, would you consider this a baby flop,

a big flop, or a mega flop? I'm going to go with mega flop. I'm going to go opposite. I think it's kind of a baby flop. She got a movie about her with Margot Robbie. And she just got on probation. Yeah, exactly. She didn't even have to go to jail.

Banned from the sport you love forever. Okay, I'll meet you in the middle. But the you know what? But your brain went to her. My big flop was like these men are just terrible at committing crimes. Like to me, it's just like such a large scale. But you're right. I agree with you there.

Yeah, just fools to get trapped in the building of where you committed the crime. And use your head. So silly. It's too much. Well, thank you so much to our gold medal guests, Lisa Trager and Shannon Fiedler for joining us here on The Big Flop. And thanks to all of you for listening.

If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review. We'll be back next week with an episode for everyone out there who can't stop thinking about the Roman Empire. It's the wild story of a wayward theater kid, Emperor Nero. Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye. Bye. Bye. If you like the Big Flop, you can listen early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.

Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. The Big Flop is a production of Wondery and At Will Media, hosted by me, Misha Brown, produced by Sequoia Thomas, Harry Huggins, and Tina Turner, written by Anna Rubinova, engineered by Andrew Holtzberger, with support from Zach Grapone.

Our story editor is Drew Beebe. Our managing producer is Molly Getman. Our executive producers are Kate Walsh and Will Mulnati for At Will Media. Legal support by Carolyn Levin of Miller, Korzenik, Summers and Raymond. Producers for Wondery are Matt Beagle and Grant Rudder. Story editing by Brian Taylor White. Coordinating producer is Mariah Gossett.

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