The Chris Cuomo Project - Democrats Are Fighting the WRONG Battle Over Hegseth

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Chris Cuomo breaks down why the outrage over Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth’s use of Signal is missing the point — and why Democrats are setting themselves up to lose again. From the Kilmar Abrego Garcia deportation case to Trump’s grip on media narratives, Cuomo argues that focusing on gotchas instead of principles like due process, 80/20 issues, and strategic messaging is a recipe for failure. He calls out media hypocrisy, explains why Hegseth likely isn’t going anywhere, and challenges both parties to stop chasing outrage and start delivering solutions. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you want to know how to beat MAGA, you gotta study what's happening with Secretary Hegseth, because you're not learning the lesson. Chris Cuomo here. Welcome to The Chris Cuomo Project. If you look at what's going on with the Secretary of Defense, you will see why you are always on defense against MAGA. First, I'll break it down for you in terms of the elements of what's going on, and then we'll look at how the agitation, the reaction, and ultimately the failure of many in the media and on the left to do anything about what they see as a huge problem and what can be better, okay?

So what is going on with Hegseth? He's sloppy. He doesn't understand the right way to do things, but most importantly, he doesn't give a shit about consequences, right? Why? Because he's not gonna have any. Here's what you're missing when you look at Signal.

You can make it seem like it's a really big deal. Holy cow, you're talking about war plans with people who aren't vetted on an unsafe communication channel? Here's the problem with the analysis. That's all true, what I just said. Shouldn't be on Signal, not supposed to be on Signal, not supposed to be on devices that aren't government vetted and controlled, not supposed to be talking to people

that aren't vetted and controlled and have that type of clearance, not supposed to be talking about that kind of sensitive stuff, but why, why, why? Why do each of those rules and don'ts exist? Why do those don'ts exist? Because you can screw shit up. You can expose information, make us vulnerable, make troops vulnerable, take away advantage, ruin strategic considerations, right?

And on and on and on. Here's the problem with the analysis. Did any of those things happen? No. The attack went off as planned against the Houthis and was successful. That's the missing piece. Hegseth wasn't paid off. Hegseth wasn't giving information in a way that compromised people on the ground, that fucked up the operation, that made it not go well, that disputed or

distracted from or disturbed the aims and understandings of the administration. disturbed the aims and understandings of the administration. That's why it's too much heat and not enough light. I know you want the scalp. I know if you hate Trump and hate everybody around him and think, hey, Seth is the worst person ever chosen as Secretary of Defense, you want him out. It's not going to happen. Not for something where there is no demonstrable injury to Trump.

He's never going to give you the satisfaction of the scalp. By going bad on one of his own guys, it makes it look like he made a bad choice. It's not going to happen, and you shouldn't force it when you don't have the high ground. I'm telling you, if it were a Democrat in the same circumstances, you would not be hearing the Democrats saying the same thing. Will they go after their own?

Absolutely. And I think it's part of their weakness. They'll say, no, it shows that our standards are real. No, it shows that you don't understand that you're in a binary war kind of of your own design, but you're fighting in a way where you're against your own and the other side at all times. I hate the game. I hate the binary structure.

I think the parties are the problem. But if you're going to be in that dynamic, you better understand how you play it to advantage. And going after Hague, Seth for this, you see it in his response. You haven't heard the Secretary of Defense once say that what is alleged is not true. What does he say? This is what you do, you come after me, gang up, you go after things. Who's he sound like? He sounds like the only audience he cares about, the audience of one, the President of the United States. A man who has never admitted doing anything wrong ever. Ever. You know, he's given all this shine for his kind of premonition, his prediction, his prophecy,

his truth, that he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and people would still vote for him. Not only is that true, that's not the real deepest understanding of it. He could shoot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue and deny it and get away with it. That's what you're missing. Why? Cause his voters are stupid and delusional and uneducated and unsophisticated. No, that is not why. And that is not true. It is because they value something else more than what you're asking them to

value and they don't want to do what you are saying because they see you as the problem. Those two things are killing you. And they keep making you lose. You don't understand several parts of this dynamic that you must if you want to be successful within it. Okay? Why does he come out and blame the media, Secretary Hegseth? Because that's what Trump would do.

Why is he now saying he's going to find the anonymous sources? This is one of the great and classical hypocrisies of this binary game. Anonymous sources are bad, except when you need them. I have heard the president of these United States say anonymous sources it's fake news and then he has said I've heard some say I've heard anonymous sources where he wouldn't give you the names of who told him. Look if we didn't have anonymous sourcing journalism would be almost useless in American society. You want people in power to be able to talk

without exposing themselves so that they get thrown out of the position of power and they can't give you that information anymore. It's nonsense that anonymous sources are bullshit. It's nonsense. It's a boogeyman. It's a fake argument just used when it's convenient because they all use anonymous sources when they work for them.

And that's not to say that they all bullshit when it works for them. That is true, but that's not my point. Anonymous sources, in my experience, are very valuable, and you reveal what it is when you have to with your bosses and go through your editorial concerns now. Where doesn't that exist? With the pod people. That's why they're just about hot takes. They're not about penetrating understanding or new information. That's not what they do. They just make you feel a certain way and that's fine. There's a place for all of it. If you want to play you to advantage, you've got to understand what works and what doesn't. Hegseth ain't going anywhere for how he texts. Do you understand? Now, if he were to leak war plans in a way that compromised the operation, he'd be dead man walking. If he were to say shit about Trump in a way that came out, he might be dead man

walking. But ultimately, what is he judged by? Is he doing what Trump wants? Fuck him with the media? He's a made man all day. Going after DEI in the military, executing the Houthi operation the way it was. They're up in recruitment. All of these things are what matter to Trump. You can argue what his concerns and considerations are,

but they are still his own. And until those are compromised, Hegseth isn't going anywhere. And wanting to chase him on a basis that you know won't resonate only has one upside. What's the upside? That it will matter to the majority. And that takes us to the next point.

Your understanding of 80-20 issues in politics. What's an 80-20? It's what it sounds like from the math, where it's overwhelmingly one side. Examples, fine. People don't care if a known pedophile gets killed in prison. Being like, we gotta investigate this. Why did this guy who raped all these kids get killed in prison? Being like, we got to investigate this. Why did this guy

who raped all these kids get killed in prison? What happened? Was it a setup? People don't give a shit why someone who touches kids gets killed in prison. And if you champion that cause you better find a really important principle. Okay, that's really extreme. Give me some more 80 20s. Okay, trans sports. A female who looks anything like me other than my lack of facial hair playing against other girls who look like girls is an 80 20 issue.

People are gonna be against it. It seems inherently unfair and an unnecessary compromising of a situation. It is way too much for the very, very few and way too much of a disadvantage to the many. Oh yeah, but it never really happens. It doesn't matter. If every time it happens, it's offensive to the majority.

That's an 80-20. Yeah, but trans people have rights too, no question. But the majority have rights too, no question. But the majority have rights also. And your rights end where my rights begin. Your right to do what you want ends where my rights to decide what is done to me begin. You, of course, can be trans and you should not be prejudiced against

or compromised because of your identity. But you don't get to make me like you. You don't get to make me do what you want me to do or say what you want me to say or think what you want me to think. Now you can crowd source a consequence and that's why social media will always be anonymous because people will never feel that they can say anything

if they're gonna have to own it because you're gonna come after them and take their job and their livelihood because you don't agree with their ideas and you treat everybody like they're a Nazi if they say what you don't like about anything. And that's a mistake and it's a reason you lost. Democrats, you gotta listen to me.

You're not being strategic, you're not being tactical, and you're not being honest. See 80 20s for what they are. Give me another, Garcia. Garcia is another George Floyd. Meaning what? This is not a great guy. This is not a guy to hold up as some kind

of moral agent. No. No. As with George Floyd, there is an overarching moral argument and principle of law and equity and justice involved. You don't kill people while arresting them in non-violent situations because you can or want to. That's bad policing. That matters. The fact that the guy you killed was kind of a piece of shit doesn't matter in terms of the principle. Due process is for everyone different degrees, sure.

I as a citizen get more due process than a green card holder, than someone who enters on a visa, than someone who enters illegally. There are gradients, gradations, levels, and that's okay. It's recognized within the 5th and 14th amendments and the jurisprudence thereof. But just because I don't like your face,

just because I don't like what you did, just because I don't like who you are, doesn't mean you are denied due process. Stick with the principle, don't make it about the person. That was the mistake with George Floyd. I'm ignoring all the defund the police, bullshit. That was one of the ugly manifestations of the radical left and your extremist flank.

That was as bad as any of the magus shit as far as I'm concerned. And it was proof that these fringes dominate our dialogue. AOC has done nothing meaningful in Congress. She's done it all on social media. And she's one of your leading names in who's gonna be president. Do you not get this concept of 80-20?

She's an 80-20 loser all day long. Why? She is clearly catering to a minority. She's her own version of MAGA. She's looking for an outraged enclave. She's not about the majority. She's not about consensus. She's not about solutions. She wants government to give you everything. She's a socialist in a capitalist society. What are you thinking? You want to go after Trump, you go after him by being in the business of better. There are better ways to revitalize the middle class in America after giving everything away to China than just tariffs and tough talk.

Be in the business of better. Look at the policies. Look at the waste in the Department of Defense and hang that on Hegseth. That's what he has responsibility for. You're not going to get him with texting. Don't go to El Salvador to bring back Garcia. He punched his wife in the face according to her. in the face, according to her. Why are you making this guy a patron saint? Stick to the principle. What is your principle?

How much does it matter? Look for the 80 20s. Be where the 80 is. No, America is about the protection of the minority. No, America is about the little guy the minority. No, America is about the little guy. It's not about mob rule. Okay, but do you think that means that you can constantly thumb your nose at consensus

and what matters to the most people? There's a difference between protecting the few from the many and making the many the victim of the few. There is a real difference. There is a principled, moral, ethical, and legal difference between protecting the few from the many and forcing the many to be at the service or at the inclination or under the influence of the few. That is the key to what I'm saying. Hegseth is not going anywhere for the way he texts. He will only go somewhere when he stops giving Trump what Trump wants.

Trump wants him to attack the media. It is not fair. It is not righteous. Hegseth has not denied the allegation because he knows they're gonna bust his ass if he does. Then he has more of a problem. So what is he going to do? I'm going after the anonymous sources. Why? People don't like anonymous sources because they've been made and conditioned to believe that somehow that's a substitute, a proxy, another way of saying fake news. If it really exists, why don't you put your name to it? You know why.

You know how people don't want to make themselves vulnerable. It doesn't mean that the information is not real and true. You have to see this dynamic. Trump derangement syndrome is real. You're just not the only one who has it. It exists on the right as well. They treat this guy like he's Kim Jong-un. Now, the difference in that analogy is,

Kim Jong-un is treated the way he is because people are afraid of what happens if they don't. That's really only true within the Republican Party. The reason people back Trump is because they're pissed off about things and they want them fixed. But more importantly than wanting them fixed, they want the people who have come at them attacked. And that's what Trump gives them. 24-7-365. You have to see that.

And the idea that Hegseth attacking the media or going after anonymous sources are things that you find appalling that are reasons for his head. They're seen as virtues by the people who are in power. You're going to lose. Yeah, but I want to fight the good fight. It's not the good fight. Fighting over how he texts is not the good fight. Fighting over whom he kills, fighting over what he refuses to kill within his own department. That's the good fight. You have to understand this distinction. Hegseth isn't going anywhere, I'll tell you that right now, and I don't care how long this ages. It will age well. He is not going anywhere over how he texts until the way he texts goes after Trump,

or reveals something, or hurts American troops, or compromises American interests in a way that changes an outcome. Do you understand? Now, I get that it would work if it were me. I'm in the media. I am subject to the scrutiny of the left and the right, but more so the left, because most of the media who come for the scalps are lefties.

And they will come for me. And they come for me more because I don't support the left enough. I get that. I signed up for it. I understand it. It's a risk. I get it. People say me too is over. Cancel culture is over. Not for people in my business. It isn't. And by the way, some of it shouldn't be over.

There should be standards in how you treat one another. I would just like for people who say they care about Me Too or Cancelling or any of that, how come you've never gone back to any of the institutions that you went after with their bold-faced names? How come you never go back and see what NBC News does now that they didn't used to do, or Fox News does now that they didn't used to do,

or ABC News or whatever organization in Hollywood and media, how come? How come we never go back and have any exposés about what's changed and what hasn't? Because it wasn't about that. It was about gotchas and scalps. That's what it was about. Right? You got Matt Lauer. Is NBC News different? Better? Well, I don't fucking know. Do you? No. Weird, huh? Not weird at all. It's about expedience, it's about currency. And it's about where people find advantage.

You have to look through the same lens when you're thinking about how to scrutinize situations with Trump. Trump Derangement Syndrome is real. It just exists on both sides. And I'm telling you, once you see past the sides and you start to look for consensus instead of gotchas, you're going to get to a better place and you're going to see a lot more that works to your advantage.

How so? You can't expect people on the right to criticize Trump. He will primary them and win. Look at tariffs. Conservatives see tariffs as anathema to free trade. Okay? They are poison. The markets are now doing what they do, which is play to advantage.

There's more energy in selling America than buying America right now. Trump started that and he instigated a downward move in the markets that is going to end no time soon. Bad for me, bad for you, but it's true. Why? Well, because the uncertainty is too many levels deep now. The tariffs are still there. We don't know how much of the bite. You don't know where he's going to go in and where he isn't.

You don't know what China is going to do. You don't know who he's going to piss off next. You don't know who's going to hit us and how. All because of Trump's chaotic machinations. And they're going to keep selling America. And that makes sense to them because that's where the action is within the market. And it's going to drive us down, down, down, down, down. And they're going to be making bets that it keeps going down.

They're going to be selling puts. They're going to be shorting. They're going to be doing all kinds of things. And what makes that proposition change? I don't know. It's not going to be just one thing. But you have to look at it through the right lens, otherwise you're never going to see anything clearly. I don't understand. Why doesn't he fire Hegseth? All these people are saying he should fire Hegseth. He doesn't give a shit about the people who are saying it. The people who are

saying it are disrespected and disliked by the people he wants to please. And people are sick of you getting scalps over things that they don't even really understand, let alone value the way that the scalpers do. Hegseth is handling it, in my opinion, poorly. But that's just my opinion because I don't like the rules he's playing by. Strategically, he's spot on. Attack the media, that works on the right. Go after the people who are going after you. That works on the right.

I get why he's saying it. I get why he's doing it. Yeah, but you don't. You think he should be gone. I know because you don't like him, you don't like Trump. You think he's unqualified and all these other things. I get it. It's just not going to happen that way. So why put your energy into it? Why go down to El Salvador and make this guy Garcia some patron

saint of who should be in the country? He is not who we need most in the country. Okay? And if you were going to go all in, go all in on the Florida stylist guy, who's a citizen, and who they kept detained for 48 hours for ICE after he proved his citizenship. After they misconstrued his tattoo that was made for his mom and dad as a gang tat. Use him as an example

of who you're not supposed to fuck with. He's a citizen. You see what I'm saying? Same thing with George Floyd. Same thing. So now what Trump is doing is making it all about who Garcia really is as the left is fighting for a guy like that to be in the country

and we're completely forgetting that he violated the two most sacred words in our constitutional republic. Due process. Just keep it on due process. The best answer they have is, yeah, but I don't really like this guy. I don't want him to have due process. That's not how it works.

Now you've got high ground. Why would a Supreme Court that is openly deferential to President Trump go nine zero against him? And Steve Miller, that guy who looks like Dobby the House Elf from Harry Potter, saying to you, you like Harry Potter, saying to you, you like that one, saying to you, they said we won, they don't have any role in immigration. Really? How stupid does he think you are? You have to facilitate the return. So what are they doing? They're making it very clear that you're forcing them to return a piece of shit.

That's who you want to be? No. Stick to the principle, not the person. Doesn't matter who it is. It doesn't matter, Benjamin Franklin, a hundred bad men go free, then have one guilty man be in a position to suffer. Now, do you even know that I just reversed that on purpose? Right? You want a system where you let people get away with things if it ensures get away with things if it ensures that an innocent man doesn't have to suffer. That's your point. Okay? We have to have due process because it doesn't matter who it is.

That's why justice is blind. Justice is blind because it doesn't matter who it is. The law is the law. So this guy may be an MS-13 dirt bag, but if he has an order that withholds his deportation, you must respect it, or you must go to court and defeat it. Trump didn't want to do that. He doesn't want to do it with his mass deportations because he sees the Constitution as an inconvenience. That is wrong all day long. That's your principle. Not that Garcia is a guy who's worth going to El Salvador for. Fight it here.

There are a lot of people in your district who would prefer a visit, Senator Van Hollen, than this cat in El Salvador, and you look like a chooch for going down there because the president of El Salvador set you up. Democrats. going down there because the president of El Salvador set you up. Democrats, if you want to be an effective counterbalance, and look, unfortunately, I have to give you advice the same way I would give the other side advice because I'm stuck in this shit binary system that you guys both benefit from. We need an effective and healthy counterbalance to whoever's in power because of this stupid system. So when you guys are in power, you need real conservatives, real

Republicans who are acting with integrity to counter ideas and balance out the equities. And now I need that from the Democrats. Don't think you're gonna get Hegseth with a gotcha. The New York Times is a rag as much as any other paper is a rag when they're going after low fruit like this. They're not gonna get him, not for this. They'll keep trying, that's what they do. And he's making enemies, so they'll have more.

But you are not hitting the majority on this. The majority does not look and say, Oh, so he texted on that signal thing that I've heard about. And what happened? Oh, nothing? Well, then why are they? It's over. It's over. As soon as regular people are like, I don't get why that that's it. You lost.

It's over. You don't have high ground. You want to go after Hegseth, go after why the DOD hasn't been touched. Why do we have billions of dollars of programs that deal with UFOs when you won't talk to us about them? How come Doge isn't talking about those? How come Doge isn't talking about shit at the DOD? I mean, come on.

When it comes to discretionary funds, I mean, people think that DOD is an entitlement. It's not an entitlement, it's discretionary spending. It's almost a trillion dollars. What, where's that? That's not waste, fraud, and abuse? Stick to the high ground. Stick to the principles.

Don't get caught fighting the cause of people who don't deserve it. Now I get that due process is afforded everyone to different degrees depending on their status. But that's not what you're doing right now. to different degrees, depending on their status. But that's not what you're doing right now. You're making this guy a patron saint the same way you did with George Floyd. And I get the idea and have argued it myself many times. It doesn't matter who George Floyd was. I don't wanna hear about it.

I don't wanna hear about what he did to a pregnant lady. I don't wanna hear about his drugs. I don't wanna hear about his past. I don't wanna hear about any of it. If it doesn't inform us about the present circumstances, it's irrelevant to the principle involved. And you know who says that? Justice.

Do a quick Google on prior bad acts and what you're allowed to bring in as an evidentiary rule of law at a trial and how limited it is and why, and what the probative value versus the prejudice has to be, and the scrutiny of it. Why? Because it's so damaging to the principle involved in that pursuit of justice.

You are playing to the weakness of the system by championing a chump. Don't do it if you want to be effective. Do process matters always, in all ways. Doesn't matter if he's a piece of shit. I am not going to pretend he is otherwise. You are pretending. Because you want wanna get Trump and you think you have high ground, but that's not the high ground. You're losing the majority again, in a situation where you should have the majority with you.

You wanna get rid of bad hombres, knock yourself out. How you do it in America matters. That's your high ground. Fighting for bad hombres, not high ground. And that's what you're doing. With Hegseth, where's the high ground? How you text matters. Not the high ground. Well, he had an NDA. Hey, welcome to public life. Well, I heard he's a drunk and he may have had an affair.

Who are you? Let's look at your personal life. If you want the high ground, find the high ground, not the gotchas. That's the secret. That's what you've been missing. Bernie and AOC running around the country trying to get people mad at the government, mad at MAGA.

That's not the majority. The majority wants solutions. The majority wants common concerns addressed. And I'll tell you, there's a huge one staring us right in the face, right in the face. Where does it say that 40 times earnings is not enough and 345 times earnings is enough in capitalism. Why is the middle class evaporating? Why is there problems affording a house insurance, your dreams, your education, your training?

Why? We made a choice in this country to send the units of production to another place where it was cheaper and easier. And now they say you can't bring it back because you can't do it that cheap and easy. No, we can, because you are assuming that it is an immutable law that you get to make as much money as you fucking can

no matter what it does to everybody else. Okay, fine. But, but who said you get free access to our markets? Oh, well, that's the tariffs. You were Trump. No, that's one blunt instrument. What I'm saying is, instead of starting with tariffs, he should have started with this proposition. You want access to America? You do things here. You use people here. Oh then an iPhone is going to be four thousand dollars. Only if it's okay that the guys at the top make 340 times what the workers make. Well where is that? Well that's the market., is it the market when I bailed your ass out? Is it the market when you get bankruptcy protection and

Preferences with how you get to finance things and taxation and all the other shit. Remember what the reason for it all is Why do corporations get benefits that you don't as an individual household? What's the answer? Because they hire people, because they're responsible for a lot of jobs. That high ground has gone. Where, where, where, where are these big cuts of communities in America that are beholden to this organization such that we need

to give them preferences. They've made more and more and more and given less and less and less. And you can write that off as socialism, but how is it not socialism when we bail them out? How are TARP and TALF not socialism? How? How? Oh, well, too big to fail.

Fuck you. That's what that was. Right to the working class, right to everybody who was struggling. There is no Keynesian economic understanding that says you can go from 40 times earnings versus your labor to 340 times earnings where the government has to pick up slack for your labor Because you're not paying them enough so they need subsidies and that's still capitalism That's bullshit and that's the conversation to have And that's the conversation to have.

Quim was a socialist. Oh, no, I am not. You wanna cut government spending, knock yourselves out. I think you're gonna have a problem politically when people realize that you are cutting meat and bone and not fat. Medicaid matters, social security matters, and big reasons that they matter is that you fucked the middle class and they don't have high paying jobs anymore. So you have

more people who are relying on it now than used to be. Yes, yes my brothers and sisters, the high ground is there. Pete Hagseth's texting is bullshit. Guy is tanking the markets and he's not even on target of what will make it better. You want access to the American consumer market, you pay for it. That's capitalism. Supply and demand.

What do I have? I got the demand, baby. We buy shit. We are the world's customer. You've got to entice me to buy for you. How? Give me jobs. Give me them good jobs. Train my people.

Bring them. Oh, it's going to raise prices. That's on you. OK, that's on you. You raise your prices. People aren't going to buy your shit, but you're going to make it here if you want access to the market. Oh, but then I'm going to go out of business. No, you're not.

You're just not going to have as much of a profit. Why the fuck is it so wrong for you to have a limit on your upside when there's unlimited downside for the people that you screwed when you left? Well, once government gets involved, they are involved. Your bankruptcy protections, your taxation loopholes, the regulatory situations that they manipulate for your advantage. Please, Walmart got all these people working for you that need food stamps and shit. How's that capitalism? Look for the high ground. Look for the 8020s. Be in

the business of better. Look for consensus. That is the avenue of opportunity. Finding a new way to piss people off and to get some scalps will get you nowhere. Thank you very much for subscribing and following here to the Chris Cuomo Project. Appreciate you. Thank you for wearing your independence, being a free agent. You like this? You'd like it better without the ads? Substack five bucks a month. Substack five bucks a month.

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