The Chris Cuomo Project - James Carville on Why Voters Are Abandoning Democrats

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

James Carville (Democratic strategist and political commentator) joins Chris Cuomo to break down why Democrats are struggling with messaging, what Trump’s continued dominance over the GOP means for the future, and why voter frustration is at an all-time high. They debate Biden’s leadership, the rise of populism in both parties, and whether the media is fueling division or failing to connect with voters. Carville also weighs in on the impact of culture wars, the challenges of winning over working-class voters, and what both parties need to do to stay competitive. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Support our sponsors: AG1 AG1 is offering new subscribers a FREE $76 gift when you sign up. You’ll get a Welcome Kit, a bottle of D3K2 AND 5 free travel packs in your first box. So make sure to check out DrinkAG1.com/ccp to get this offer! RadioActive Media Learn how you can experience the power of audio marketing by also utilizing the strength of text messaging which can generate and RIO as high as 7 to 1. Text ""CHRIS"" to 511 511 or on the web at radioactivemedia.com Text rates may apply. iRestore Reverse hair loss with @iRestorelaser and get $625 off with the code chris at https://www.irestorelaser.com/chris #irestorepod Shopify Upgrade your business and get the same checkout AllBirds or Aviator Nation uses. Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at SHOPIFY.COM/chrisc to upgrade your selling today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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that everybody's listening to right now for that. I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. James Carville was the man and is once again the man. He's throwing Molotov cocktails at Trump. And it piqued my curiosity, why would James be doing this when he doesn't think it's what his party needs to be doing? Ah, therein is the genius, the subterfuge. Carvel is taking some energy out of the room of this desire to come at Trump. Why is he doing it?

What does he really think his party should be focused on while he's focused on this? That is the key to what Democrats need to realize about the opportunity in this moment that James Carville believes is one of the scariest of his life. ["The Daily Show Theme"] All right, James, as I always say when I see you,

let's talk about syphilis. Yeah, okay. Now, you dated yourself by using that particular STD in reference to Trump. Syphilis is an old man's disease. You really should have gone with like chlamydia or something like that. That's what the kids are talking about today. So I know you, I have been a student of yours for many years. I grew up listening to you on phone calls and in public. What

are you going for here with the I'm worried that Trump has syphilis? Well, okay. First of all, there's something wrong with it. That's pretty clear that that meeting in the Oval Office was a significant deration. Secondly, we do know that he did have red splotches on his hand, which, you know, it could be an indication of syphilis. But the other thing that we know that we had to talk about, on January the 17th, 2017, the Keith Schiller and two other goons

broke into his doctor's office, Dr. Borenstein, and confiscated his health records. We have never seen them. We don't know what's in it. So if, if I take, I'm of course, I'm speculating, but if he had an enlarged prostate or had a pre-cancer skin lesion, you wouldn't steal your medical records, would you? You wouldn't break into your internist and send people to confiscate medical records.

So unlike people who say, well, I'm just asking questions. No, you're not. Of course I am. There's some deterioration in him. He did have skin splotches. He did confiscate his medical records. What, maybe that's a benign explanation. I don't know. But, and we did watch a, a,

a event unlike anything we've ever seen in American history in the Oval Office. And so people can say, well, I just kind of happened and say, let's be fair about it. People can say, there's something really fundamentally wrong here. And that's what I'm saying. But look, I'm with you. And once again, I think it's two weeks in a row I've had to congratulate you for winning

the click bait contest with the media. And what I love about it, James, I'll tell you this, and it's not just that you're a friend and I'm a fan of yours. It's that I love when people count you out and then you decide to show people that you know how to play the game as it is currently played if you wanted to.

So bravo to you and you're not even the more intelligent or interesting person in your couple, by the way. But look. intelligent or interesting person in your couple by the way. Just another credential I have Chris, I think I'm the only person who's ever been fired from all three major cable networks. Really? I was fired from Fox, I was fired from CNN, and I was fired from MSNBC. So I have the hat trick of cable TV firings, which I think gives me great, great rifle time.

That's impressive, although I must say, and I'm not a one-upper, as you know, but I think my firing is far more egregious in the cable world than all three of yours combined. I've got a lot of fights I want to get into. Yeah, this is some ground that you'll see. You might have had a longer, you might have scored from 60 feet out goal,

but I got a hat trick. You definitely have a hat trick. But you're so valuable. You understand what Democrats are at their best so well. And I know that you don't believe that you're, that attacking Trump is gonna get you guys where you wanna be. And we have the Democrats all putting out the same video,

shit ain't true, complain, complain, complain. When do the Democrats get into the business of better? Because you're not gonna beat Trump or who comes after him by being the party of grievance. Well, first of all, events, my dear boy, events. That's what I think how Macmillan and Wilson, one of them said, let's get out. I think right now, and I'm being very serious,

I'm 80 years old, I think this most serious crisis that this country has ever faced. I think the entire idea of the United States is in jeopardy. I really do. I think it's fundamentally that profound a problem. And I think if the Democrats act clever, act determined, understand where this stands this moment in history, I think that it would be very successful. You referenced Prime Minister McMillan, events.

Events are what tell the story. What are the events that you're pointing to, James, that give you this concern of where we are? The debt ceiling. They're not gonna get the votes. And they have to go to Hawking, all right? We just need to be quiet. They're gonna have to stack arms

because they're not gonna have the votes. They're not gonna have the votes to have $4.5 dollars in tax cuts and do all the things they want. And so, you know, when like... How does that make it a bad situation? I don't think I don't know that it's a bad situation. Well, you said you said it's never been in crisis like this.

What's the crisis? We have a president who is siding with Belarus and North Korea and Russia. I'm sorry, that's a crisis. We have a president that has appointed some of the most incompetent people you can imagine to United States Congress. We have a president who is starting a trade war with our three biggest trading partners, and we're watching the beginnings of what could be a financial meltdown that we can hardly imagine.

We have a president that does not respect our institutions, does not respect the limited powers and separation of powers that we have in our constitution. I can think of no bigger crisis this country's been in in my lifetime ever. I think we've had presidents that have made mistakes, the Iraq war being being won, which I'm happy to say I'm the only one opposed, but I thought that they did it because they thought it would work. They didn't do it because they thought it would hurt the United States. I think they were wrong. I am not convinced at all that Donald Trump loves the United States. I'm pretty convinced he doesn't love the idea of the United States.

He's pretty clear on that. And look at what's happening in every instance. Look at that now we're getting a guaranteed crypto floor. I mean, it's breathtaking. We're talking about not paying attention to spending authorized congressional spending, which you can't be any more violent of the Constitution than that. We are in a deep and profound crisis.

Unless Democrats are clever and there's some people in the Republican Party just say, I simply can't go there anymore. I'm sorry. And we might get to that point, but that's what's going to save us. Are you giving the president way too much credit for his words becoming deeds just because he's saying he's going to do things? Let's look at his deeds. Let's look at his deeds.

Did he slap a 25% tariff on counter in Mexico? Yes, he did. saying he's going to do things. Well, let's look at his deeds. Let's look at his deeds. Did he slap a 25 percent tariff on counter in Mexico? Yes, he did. Did he slap a 10 percent tariff? It didn't. They're not really going into effect. He's just saying. Okay, you ask me. I'm going to go

through the deeds. All right, go ahead. I got a counter every once in a while. But did he do that? Did he vote? Did he vote with North Korea, Russia and Belarus and the United States? He did that.

Yes, yes he did. Did he point some of the most insane people you can imagine to cabinet posts that would be getting no other? No. Okay. How much more do you have to have? What does he have to do to say, okay, did he come into office and say, I'm gonna drop price from day one, of course, did he have a agriculture secretary

that actually said the solution to the egg crisis is to raise chickens in your backyard? Yeah, she said that. She really honest to God said that, okay? So, it's so well, let's don't pay attention to what he says, let's pay attention to what he does. Good, let's just talk about what he's doing right now. Support comes from Shopify.

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please support the Chris Promo Project. Tell them that we sent you. Hair loss is frustrating, but you don't have to be frustrated. There are remedies, and iRestore is a step towards better. So isn't the obvious counter is a step towards better. So isn't the the obvious counter to have better ideas, point out how silly the tariff is as a suggestion

of how to improve the trade relation and come with something better? Social Security, there's so many obvious fixes that are better than what he's doing, which is submarineing the staff and letting Musk shit talk the program. But the Democrats aren't doing that. Well, you know, the Democrats, it's been since January the 20th. And the Democrats are not the problem. They don't have any problem. They don't have any power. Let me give you something.

So we have Elon Musk's dose. Okay, we all know that too many federal employees. Do you know what the growth in federal employment has been from 1965 through 2025, 60 year growth? Very, very slim. Zero. Okay. If you're going to say to me, well, are there some people in the Far East Bay, Indian? I'm sure there are. But we were in 1965, look it up, we're a nation, maybe 150 million people. I don't know, 140, we're not a nation of 335 million people.

The number of government federal employees we have per person has risen exponentially. So if we operate under a common factual basis of what some say we should do. But is it right? Democrats have a chance to image the party as that all time, by being determined, being patriotic, and doing this and showing that we're not a hoo-ha or screaming and we have really talented people, we put them out on different shows, and we can rebuild the party brand. But you're right. That's the blessing of the curse, right? The blessing of the curse is that you got your ass whooped,

now you get a chance to recreate yourself. How should they? Yeah, and I'm fine to go to the, it's a disease. You know, we, again, we played the Super Bowl with our seventh-ranked quarterback, we lost by a point and a half. We actually picked up a house seat. It was terrible, we didn't, we don't have any power,

but we don't start from zero, and if we get it, and we have really, really talented people. Yeah, but you lost the popular, well, I wanna hear who you think the talented people are. Lost about a point and a half. Yeah, but you lost the popular vote, which you rarely do to a guy you had no business losing to.

If we were, again. It's like you lost to the Jets. We lost, but we had our seventh string quarterback. If we didn't, we had 10 people who were norms and touts. But I'm not, what I'm saying is the country is in the most perilous position. I was born on the day of the first Comikaze attack, October 25th, 1944, Battle of Lady Gulf. Look it up. I have never seen the country, the constitution, the idea of the United States in greater peril

than it is right now, ever. What are your three biggest concerns about what happens? What events happen? First of all, the Ukraine collapses and Putin invades Western Europe, a place that has been peaceful since God knows when. You have adventurism in East Asia, particularly the South China Sea, and we get extended that. We have a collapse of the financial markets, which is way beyond a minor consideration

right now. We don't have another election. We pay no attention to restrictions on spending or congressional restrictions or anything like that. We have taken where criminality has become accepted behavior and it should never be accepted behavior. We have come to a country where when we grew up, we were taught that the fundamental idea of the country, that no person is above the law,

we now have a president that is above the law. All of these things are enormously disturbing to me, enormously disturbing. I wanna hear who you think your great Democrats are, but before you tell me, also tell me why the Democrats didn't ask for the perception that Trump is judgment-proof by going after him politically

with the two impeachments on such thin cases. I don't think the case of the Ukraine case was thin at all. I think it was the most violated thing where you had an authorized expenditure authorized by the Congress and he said, I will impound that expenditure and leave it impounded until you do research on my political party. I will not concede that that is all a minor case. I think it's one of the more violent things. But that's as we like to say.

But you knew you would never get him removed. Again, if we want to argue, should there be peace or not, that doesn't rise to the moment we're at. Let's just assume that there shouldn't have done it. With still all of the things that out outlie a true right today. It is opposed to defending everything that the Democrats did, of course, 50 million jobs since in this century compared to one million. Okay, I hate to be a broken record, but it's also true, right?

Well, you know, actually, you guys need to be more of a broken record, Jim. I think one of the things I wanted to talk to you about is, you know, even if I were to accept the scenario, as you see it right now, how did we get here? And you have to think about how you got outplayed by this guy and a bunch of clowns. You know- It matters.

I don't want a Monday morning quarterback. But no, I'm just saying in terms of what you do different, Jim. I don't want a Monday morning quarterback. But no, I'm just saying in terms of what you do different, Jim. I'm not here to say whether they should impeach them or not. I'm here to tell you- I agree. The country is in fundamental peril. The entire experience could blow up.

Now we could spend our time saying we shouldn't have done this in- No, I'm saying what got us here and what has to change? Again, what has to change is we have to show that we're a determined party, that we understand the absolute historical moment we're in, and we're going to be up to it. We're going to be unified. We're going to speak with one voice. We're going to put our best voices out there, which I think we're doing right now with Senator Slotkin, who I'm enormous admirer of Senator Slotkin

as a candidate, as a communicator. But I'm not, when I think the whole thing is about to come crashing down, you can say, well, we should have did this. Okay. So what- I'm asking you what you should be doing now. How do you, can you avoid what's going to happen?

We should be a determined political party that understands that they are at risk of ruining the entire country. And we should fight them at every level. And when they come to us and need our help, we should be very wise, very clever, and very judicious in these negotiations. And I think that they're going to do that. But what this is not, well, one side says this, one side says this. This is one side, in my humble opinion, that wants to ruin the country, that doesn't like

the country, that doesn't like the ideas that the country was built on, doesn't like the idea that we're a pluralistic society that are governed by laws. That's what I really think. How do you explain that the cell on the other side is exactly that, that we're a society of laws and the Constitution, and that we allowed the principles to get perverted by

By extreme left views. That's the cell for the right. So what extreme left view perverts the country? I somehow profoundly disagree with it. I think that people that follow it here to identity politics are profoundly wrong. I think it's politically not small, but that evil people, they're not illegal. If I, if I want to call somebody black next, I think it's a dumb way to communicate, but then make you a bad person at all. If it, and some of the ideas they have, but, but that's not, they're not fundamentally bad people.

I think they're fundamentally naive people who probably see the errant in ways. I've been speaking out on this since April, give it the exact date, April 27th, 2021. But there's a difference between having esoteric ideas inciting with Belarus and North Korea and Russia. One is a kind of naive thing, the other is evil. present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day,

present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, present-day, and the UN wanted to pass a resolution that blamed Russia and would have made them leave the table. You're a very simple man. You like the simple truth. Yes, I'm very simple. Ukraine invaded Russia? Yes. Yeah, Ukraine invaded Russia.

Of course not. Russia invaded Ukraine. Thank you. So that's the fundamental thing that Trump says. So is peace so dear? Is peace so dear in that you have to... an entirely false narrative about what happened, and you have to associate yourself with Kim Il-jong

in Belarus and Russia. And you have to turn your back on some of the... on South Korea, on Japan, on New Zealand, and Australia, and Thailand, and Vietnam, and Germany, and France, and Italy, and Spain, on New Zealand, in Australia, in Thailand, in Vietnam, in Germany, in France, in Italy, in Spain, and the United Kingdom, and Canada, and Mexico. I mean, this is not an equal argument.

This is one hand with the other hand. Jim, how do you process why he's doing it? My best understanding of why he's doing it from his own people is it's not that he likes Russia. Russia is the only superpower involved so they have all the leverage so he's playing to them because he believes in power. So he doesn't care about any of the other countries you just mentioned. He only cares about Russia and if he has to be nice to them to get them to the

table to get them to make this deal, he's okay with that. Superpower of what? They invaded a country one-fourth their size. They can't barely sail a ship. Anybody, anybody wants to buy a Russian watch or a Russian car? The only body really wants to fly on a Russian airplane. Okay, this is John McCain. Man, this is a gas station masquerading as a country. All right, look at the Russian economy is, I don't think it's as big as California or Texas. Right, it's getting crushed right now.

We're not dealing, look at what, so just take a country like Germany or Japan, look at what Korea makes. These are the people we want to hang out with. These are the people that we want to ride in a car. These are the cool people of the world. The Russians are not the cool people. I actually think we should consider the possibility

that Trump cannot stand the United States. It cannot stand what it's come to stand for. It can't stand the rule of law. It can't stand pluralism. Okay? It can't stand what the country is going through. And I don't know what's in somebody's head, but it is a conclusion that I keep coming back to.

The man does not like our country. What do you think he wants it to be? I don't think, yeah, I think he has some, first of all, he wants it to be a kleptocracy. Secondly, he, to the extent that he has any sense of history, he says, well, the United States should have North America, but pretty clear. He has talked about, talks about annex in Mexico. He has talked about annex in Canada. He has talked about annex in Greenland. He has talked about annex in the Panama Canal.

All of them, you could argue whether the Panama Canal is in North America or South America or Central America. I think he said, look, I'd like for us to have North America, the Russians have Europe, China to have Asia, and we'd have three superpowers, and we would have authoritarian rule and the world would be a better place. I think that's his vision. I had this journalist from Lebanon call me,

and she says, you know, it's interesting. We've always marveled at how a mistake that we had made, they had made in their region was they always picked people who were seen, you know, the rulers would wind up being people who were just part of this elite class, rarely in touch with the people that they were ruling. And that America always was an envy because it always seen that your rulers

kind of grew out of your population. She says, but now it seems like you've gone too far in that direction and you finally have a president who sounds like and thinks like and acts like what we used to call the ugly American. What do you do with that? Well, I think it's a stupid thing, but Lebanon, I have many friends there,

I've worked in Israel a lot, pretty familiar. It's an unfortunate place to try to root, because it's so sectarian. Yeah. It, understand what our founders were most afraid of, if you look at the Federalist papers, and you notice, they were most afraid of factions.

Yep. That's what Lebanon is. Yep. It's factions. You can call it by anything you want. You have the Marinal Christians, you have the Shias, you have the, you name it, the Syrians, you name it. And it's almost, it's a very difficult place to govern.

Yep. It's a great country. It's a very difficult place to govern. It's a great country. Just a stunningly great country. We, on the other hand, had a whole history of being separated. We had a whole history of a constitution. We were, at one time, what Martin Luther King said, the Orca history bends toward justice.

That's what the United States was. And I think you're observing Lebanon is kind of astute. And I think Trump likes the idea of us being Lebanon. I think that we would have a nation of factions and not dreams. I think what frustrates me is his level of success and persuasion with such a low level His level of success and persuasion was such a low level of intelligence and really savvy that it's been so easy for him to overcome all of the challenges, all of the obstacles that would have, we always say it, right? Anybody else would have been done 10 gaffes ago.

What does it tell you that he has been able to get a majority of this country, in terms of a plurality in the election, to believe in him? Through all of the bad people that had a majority of that country. But here? Again, I could go and say, I really think this is terrible that these people, but right now we're in peril. I'm not a historian. Right now we're on the beach. Okay. We're getting fired out. You know, maybe we should have done some things differently. Maybe we should have like not

cut off Japan's oil or maybe we were too imperialistic or whatever. right now, I'm about to get my ass shot off. That's all I can think about is how do we stay alive and come back and take it? That's where I am. I mean, there's a moment, there's a time for history, there's a time for recriminations, and there's a time to fight. Do the Democrats get it when the senators

are all putting out the same video that is a string of bitching about Trump where they say, shit ain't true? Is that what you're thinking about? Look, I noticed we have some Democratic senators, we're going to see one tonight, that are marvelous communicators. I think Ruben Gallego is going to be on the presidential ticket 1932, I mean, 2032 or whatever it is, a 36. I think Chris Murphy is our world communicator. But we have what I'd like to see us do is say, you know, some people are better at some things than other people. And some people are better at communicating and other people. Let's put our best people out there. And I think they can do that. Um,

you know, it, it's probably going to make some mistakes. People weren't crazy at me because I advocated a rope adult strategy. It just don't go out there blazing. There's plenty of time. You know, you're you're old enough to remember Ali bouncing off the road, let the guy punch out. You're not quitting. You're not, you're not doing anything. You're just sitting there. And as soon as he gets tired, you take measure and then boom. And that's, you know, I want us to be more clever.

I want less passion, more cleverness. Who do you think is calling the shots? Well, I mean, like I'm like Will Rogers, I'm going to an organized political party, I'm a Democrat. One of the things I kind of like about Democrats is, you know, you're not the boss of me. Who is he to tell me what to do? Okay. But right now, at this moment, I think some people are gonna stand up in the party. It need to be assertive. It's gotta come from inside the caucus.

But I have, and I think they have a very smart strategy in place when the inevitable comes and they want a deal. And what I'm honestly trying to do, people try to figure me out, I'm trying to give Hakeem some cover here. Okay, I'm honestly trying to do, people try to figure me out, I'm trying to give Hakeem some cover here. Okay, I'm going to your time, say, hey, back off a little bit, it's gonna be okay. I'm actually trying to give them,

you know, cause people are calling in and, ah, you gotta do something now to, the light brigade, but let's put the light brigade in reserve. I'm not saying we shouldn't use the light brigade, but let's put the light brigade in reserve. I'm not saying we shouldn't use the light brigade, but let's don't use it. Let's don't deploy it right now. And I want to, and I have confidence that they have, but I have some reason to believe this, that they,

they are planning for the inevitable and we should give, and by the way, if they screw up the negotiations, I'll come on your show. I'll say that was a big screw up, but this might have a good plan in place. Support for the Chris Cuomo Project comes from radioactive media, business owners, CMOs. How do you plan on growing in 2025? There's going to be a lot of uncertainties.

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is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BedMGM, a sports book worth a slam dunk, an authorized gaming partner of the NBA. BedMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only, please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns So I get it, you're throwing Molotov cocktails, Trump hates America while battling syphilis. I gave you the evidence, I didn't just say,

be fair to me, I gave you the evidence why I think he does. I assigned reasons to my findings. Yeah no I get it that doesn't mean that it's the same thing as proof, but I'm okay with the analysis. You can feel it. What I'm saying is, so the Republicans say we need Democrat votes for this budget, for the debt ceiling and for the spending resolutions. Right. What does that look like and what is the opportunity in that? Well, you know, when you live in a democracy, in a Congress, you negotiate. So, Democrats would say, well, gee, we've got 215 votes. We represent people. My guess is it would not be for a very long time frame. And my guess is it would not involve a lot in new debt.

But I think short of that, there's a lot of room to go back and forth. But they're not going to agree to anything, I don't think, but a very limited timeframe. Look, if you want to keep, you want to, and right now, however disastrous that default would have been two years ago, it's 10 times more perilous right now because the whole financial system, the whole financial markets are on edge. And it wouldn't take much to reach the tipping point. So, that's why I say the Democrats should not be,

should be very measured, very determined. If they want to talk and negotiate, we certainly have an open door. But don't give them, don't give them very much. So let's take a couple of steps down your road, and I'll relay something else that I was told by one of the president's people. I was like, well, he better be careful playing with wanting these tax cuts that didn't pay for themselves the last time. He's got some real conservatives in his caucus that may knuckle up because they got to think about life after Trump.

They don't want to own the extension of those tax cuts like they did in 2016, you got a lot more Paul Ryan's than you may think, and you could have a real fiscal credit collapse here. And he said, and why would that be a bad thing for Trump? I said, it's on his watch. The everything would go crazy. People would, you know, there'd be all kinds of economic distress.

And he says, and then isn't there an opportunity for him to say, you see what happens when you let this Congress deal with everything? I should have more power. Are you afraid of that? What I'm afraid of is that first of all, more debt has been accumulated on Donald John Trump than any president in history.

Any. Okay, so let's start there. And if he says, Congress can't roll, it is a Republican Congress. I'm reminded constantly. And so we have a financial collapse that it a nourished the Trump's benefit. I think that- As an authoritarian. I think the guy that you're talking to at the White House

has not stuck his head in the issue, but greatly, but that's my view. That is absolutely true. The guy who's telling me this is no historian. Right. What's going to happen is they're going to have trouble. I don't know if they get a budget, but the debt ceiling is going to be the point of infection. That's going to be where the fecal matter engages the rotor blade on the debt ceiling.

And I think the Democrats have thought about it. I think they're thinking about it. I don't think they're going to go in ad hoc and not having an idea of what they want to do. But even if they cut themselves a good deal that's of limited duration, that keeps debt down, keeps spending down, so what? Then what?

Then you have an election in Wisconsin April You have an election in Wisconsin, April 1st, after the note of calendar. You have an election in Virginia, New Jersey, the first Tuesday in November of this year. Then you go to post in 2026. The single most important thing the Democrats can do, not stand on principle, not address inequities in our society, win the election.

After you win the election, you can have all arguments you want. You can address anything that you want to. But now, if you don't think winning is important, how does it feel to lose? So whatever it takes to win, you have to be united. You have to do things that are just faithful. That's okay. Then you win, you have to about the 2024 election. All right?

All right, you were wrong when you said this back then. People will never blame you for being wrong. They will blame you for being boring. And if you're not boring, you're going to be relevant. Okay? That being wrong never has, you know, we all wrong. We all say stuff, we all pop off. And so if the public says, you know what, this guy talks different, he doesn't talk and talk and points,

he's not afraid to get out in front of something. Then the, the public is going to say, I like that guy. I think he's relevant. That's, that's as simple as it is. to say, I like that guy. I think he's relevant. That's just as simple as it is. I've tried not to be boring. And I got five from three cable networks, and I'm still talking to you and everybody else. Well, you'll always be able to talk to me. You're extended family to me.

That's different. No, you know one thing about baseball, like I know you, David, you were taught when you played baseball, let the ball come to you. So you're the second baseman, you're the shortstop, don't charge the ball. If you can't move faster than the ball, it's gonna get there in plenty of time.

Once you get it, then you can throw it. And that's basically what I'm saying. We're all 12th graders playing shortstop right now. Let the ball come to you. Don't charge it, don't get ahead of it. And the ball's coming. But to extend the metaphor, be ready for it and know where to go with it.

Be on the balls of your feet, okay? Every pitch, assume that it's coming to you, you already know that. Everything that you learn is as a seventh grade shortstop or second baseman or whatever, it's relevant right now. Just go back in that mindset. What is relevant to you when you think about, I won't use the word legacy

because you'll get angry at me about it, but what do you want for yourself and your role? What do you want for yourself and your role? I want people to say, you know, that guy had a life in politics and he seemed to have had a good time doing it. And maybe I ought to get involved at some level. Maybe I don't know, maybe you don't have to run for office or you can be a journalist like you are.

You could run for office, you could work in campaigns like I do, you could work for an NGO, you could try something. We've told people, and particularly young people, that politics is such a dirty, nasty, doctrine ad game. It, you know, maybe we've convinced them to not do that. And what I'm trying to do, and what we try to do through the movie is say,

hey, these guys had a pretty good time. They laughed, they drank, they hugged each other and they were not real criminals. They just were some hard fighting, hard drinking people that had a good time and believed in what they did. And if I do that, I'm the happiest son of a bitch in the face of this earth. I can tell you that right now. If the Lord handed you the wand and said you get three wishes,

what would they be for the society? One of them would be that the Democrats have a vigorous and competitive 2028 nominating process, where people get a chance to really evaluate what's going on. The other thing that I really want is that people would come to embrace American pluralism. And I like the word pluralism more than anything

because it allows us all to be different, but all to be part of something bigger. So I'm a huge believer in that. And I think that we need to reorient the country, which is too responsive to older people and property owners like myself. And it's very difficult for younger people to afford an education, to afford a house,

to afford rent, to afford health insurance. So I would like to make this nation a little less comfortable for people over 50 and a little more opportunistic for people under 50. And I think that's something we can do. 30 years from now, what do you think's different? Well, and I'll be taking in the middle of a long dirt nap. Oh, dirty.

And I'll be both pushing up daisies. But what do you think? Well, I think the country will rise to the occasion here. And I think, I think, yeah, I'll probably live to see it. But for all of the angst and terror and everything that we're currently going through, which I'm very clear is the most I've ever seen.

I see, you know, most I've ever seen. I still believe in America, but you know, God just, maybe it's not rational, but you know, what does the Bible say? This too shall pass. I think this too shall pass. At least I hope it does. I'm not certain. When you look at guys like me, what do you think we're doing wrong? I think that you look at it, people say guys like you just don't do it. Looking at where I said, well, somebody has a point,

they have a point, maybe there's a midpoint. And maybe that's true in some instances, but what we need to do is recognize when something is really just not right. It's not even arguably right. And understand that there's a difference between mistakes at heart or strategic mistakes between violating the law, violating the constitution, being against the very things that made us a country. They're not 270 events.

And now we sell people this. If I were, I'd definitely consider myself a liberal, not a moderate, but that doesn't matter. But if I were a war, I would never describe myself as a centrist. I would describe myself as a moderate, but that doesn't matter. But if I were more, I would never describe myself as a centrist. I would describe myself as a moderate and my rationale is this, a centrist depends on where two points go. So if points do that, then you there. If they do that, then you there. Being a moderate of being, but I've come to understand it,

being a skeptical of major changes too quickly, of not adhering to some institutional trust or some tradition is a dangerous thing to be. That's a very, I think, a very noble thing to be. And a lot of people are moderate in their behavior or moderate in their relationships. And that's a real philosophy. But I think scepterism is a, is a word that is dependent on two other stars. I never liked it when president Clinton was for triangulation. I just, I didn't like it. I think he was smart. And I mean, if you look at, look at the Clinton- Gingrich thing, just how much more clever Bill Clinton was.

That's what I want us to be. I want us to be clever people. I'd listen to it the other night, Chris, sometimes I'd listen to music just at night, like anybody else. Read the words of God saved the queen. Now I'm no fan of, I'm Irish, okay, my family, they can't stand, I don't care.

But read the words of it. How to be clever when you face your enemies, the nays, and just the whole wording of it is like, and that's what I want us to be. I want us to be clever. And I think we can do that. Boy, but it's pretty rare. You know, look, that's why Clinton, you know,

thank God he's still alive. So he doesn't get his due yet. But I don't think your party has come close to him. I remember even Pop saying, you know, I won't burden people with the history of my father and Clinton. Of course, he wound up doing the nomination for Clinton the second time at the convention. Ain't your dad on the Supreme Court so bad he could taste you? Listen, so my sister's wedding, I'll tell people this story. I had

gotten into a fight right before her wedding and I had all these stitches over my eyes. So my father was already pissed off at me and so was Andrew. I had like a two headed dog of a father, like it was Andrew and my father. So they're both pissed off. George Stephanopoulos is desperately trying to get my father on the phone.

I can't remember if it was the first time or the second time that the president asked my father to be on the court. I can't remember, and I can't remember, I know that one time he pushed back and he was like, well, I'm gonna be the chief, right? And Bill was even okay with that. And I think your dad would have been a,

I think politicians make great Supreme Court a... He would have been great. I think politicians make great Supreme Court judges. He would have been great. And he would have been an amazing counterbalance to Nino Scalia. They knew each other, they liked each other. Nino, my father would say, was better on the law, horsepower wise, but they would have been interesting. But they didn't want to talk to George because it was the wedding and they didn't have an answer. And Andrew didn't really feel like, you know,

given George the respect of getting on the phone. So they made me get on the phone. So I had to get on the phone with George Stephanopoulos. And he was like, why am I talking to you? I'm aware of it. But my father would say about President Clinton aware of it. But my father would say about President Clinton, that he was a unique understander, that he was smart enough of everybody than everybody in the room, but he had the emotional intelligence to know it. I don't think you've checked

those boxes since then. Well, you know, God guy like that comes along every hundred years. Yeah, he's a generational talent. Right. It's like, say, well, he's not Willie Mays. Okay, fine. You can be pretty good not being Willie Mays, right? Yeah. And you're right, he understands it, but I do, I remember that vividly. And we have some people that have the potential to be that right

now. That's, that's what I really believe. I think who could be close to Bill Clinton names. Somebody's going to call me and say, you didn't mention me. I mentioned Ruben. Okay. That's a, that's a good enough start. No, I didn't forget he's too, he just, I'll name a name. You know who I think the best person is with a D after the name in the country?

Governor Wes Moore, an elected office right now. I don't think you could beat him. I think Wes is great. He's got an incredible resume. He's got charm. He's got clitness charm. But I have to say, if you talk to Wes and you say, look, if you take this to the next level, which I hope he does, Wes will tell you, yeah, I'm thinking about doing it, but

I got to tell you something, Chris, it ain't going to be easy. There's going to be a lot of really fucking a lot of real talented people out there. But I do, I think, but I think there are other people who are really talented. And when people look at the Democratic party, you know, I've seen this a thousand times, they think we're old and they think we're urban. And we're just stuck in the past.

And defenders of the status quo and the establishment. That's what's hurting you guys right now. So, and I think there's nothing old under Maryland's kind of an urban state, but, but, but, but West is not urban and West does not look like the status quo. He, he exudes change. So I agree with you. He'd be great guy. Well, look, I mean, you know, I asked you earlier about waving the wand for me, it would

be for us to remember that we created race. We created it. You cut Westmore open and you cut me open, you'll never be able to tell the difference. You'll never tell the difference of any of us on the inside, we created this. And if we created it, then we can make it go away. That would have been my, that would be my wave in the wand

and it would be magical thinking. Only people can start a war and only people can run about. Hey Jim, do you think that we've broken the media? Do you think that the pod people are now capitalizing on people's dis and mistrust of media and that we've lost it? Well I get this question a lot. The truth of the matter is the media is considerably less powerful. It used to be, and Melinda Johnson said, I lost the war, I lost the war of the con-cite, I lost the war. There's no person that you can say that about. I think that what's happened is the entire industry,

podcast being a reflection of them and kind of started mostly with talk radio where people use the media for support as opposed to illumination. I want to listen to that guy because he says what I think. Having said that, some of the podcast stuff is pretty good. What just allows us to do is to sit here and have a 45, 50 minute conversation where we go from the constitution, we go to your dad being on the Supreme Court, or we go to Trump, or we go to history.

Anywhere we want to go. You can't do that. Right. And you can't do that. Right. And you can't do that in the New York Times. You can't do that on the Sean Hannity show, all right? So podcasting allows people from two different generations, two different parts of the country,

two different experiences to have a conversation. That's good. That's not a bad thing. No, I don't think it's a bad thing. I think conversation is the cure, as I say, not just because it's alliterative, but the problem with podcasts is overwhelmingly, they're just takes and they have to be hot takes.

They're not the rigor. I was making fun of Joe Rogan a little bit earlier. So Elon Musk is sitting there, says to him, you know, Social Security is a huge part of our future debt obligations and is a big part of our debt. And Rogan sits there and like kind of makes a guttural noise. And I'm thinking, who works for this guy? Who is why isn't somebody there to say to him, no, tell Elon, social security has nothing to do

with the debt structure. It's not how it works, it's not part of that. I know the guy's a genius, Elon Musk, but geniuses sometimes have weak spots. This guy is wrong about so much basic civics. And you know, see on a podcast, he just lets Elon talk because he wants him to be provocative and to get clicks, but he's letting the guy run a line of bullshit.

So in 1965, we go back to, we started social security coal, it was really not expensive. The elderly poverty rate in 1965 was around 31%. Today it's around nine. Now you can sit and cost us money, but you know what? Reducing the number of old people that go to that coal or hungry is pretty good.

We talk about NATO. The one thing we know, before NATO, European nationalism did not work well for the first half of the 20th century. Okay, NATO has been clumsy, it's been administratively heavy, it's cost us money, but you know what? No one's getting shot.

Yep. Same thing with Israel and Egypt. We paid a lot of money, but you know what? No one's been shot on the Israeli-Egyptian border. Sometimes the expenditure of money is way, way worth what we spend on it. And what we've done with Social Security in terms of eliminating elderly poverty, in terms of a lot of things have been a great societal and humane thing. It really has.

I'll tell you, before God, there's a book called Jesus Wept, which as a Catholic, it's fascinating. Who wrote it? It's Worth reading. It's really, you should have that guy on your TV show and he takes the history of the church from the death of Pius XII. Boom. Get into that right now and really walks you through it.

It is just fascinating history and it's relevant to a lot. Hopefully it's not about Pope Francis dying. He's gonna die. So that's pretty clear. We're all gonna die, but I just feel like I don't think we need that right now. Yeah, yeah, it really puts Pope Francis in context to say the least. Well, you know, I got one of the blessings of being in a big organization. When I was at CNN, Pope Francis in context, to say the least. Well, you know, I got one of the blessings of being in a big organization.

When I was at CNN, I went down to South America and spent time down there doing a documentary about Bergoglio, Pope Francis, as Cardinal, and talking to his friends and talking to the drug dealers that he made deals with down there, which was, of course, controversial, but it was certainly the right thing to do. And what a fascinating guy.

You know, Carol Voitia, John Paul II, I got to understand a little bit because I wound up being friends with someone who grew up with him. But you rarely get to understand a figure like that as a man. You know what I mean? And he's an interesting study. But you rarely get to understand a figure like that as a man. You know what I mean? And he's an interesting study.

But Colonel O'Connor told him on his deathbed, wrote him a letter when he was dying, do not appoint Theodore McCarrick to anything. And he laid out the case. And unfortunately they appointed him anyway and it was not, it was not a good appointment. But it's not when- O'Connor was right about that.

Yeah, and you know, he was a guy, you know, who always was from Scranton, I think. And, you know, yep, yep, he was, he was spot on. But anyway- And I'm being, I'm being, I'm being fair to that guy. You know, O'Connor's the guy who said, my father should be excommunicated. Only time I ever saw him visibly at the point of tears

about anything other than his children. There you go. Well, I certainly wouldn't want to excommunicate anybody, particularly your father. But before we go, I gotta tell you, my favorite thing is Orpheus, which is the crew. This is how you use my query, which rose last night, Monday night.

It was started by Harry Connick Jr. And the queen this year was a drag queen. I couldn't get over that. That's the way you fight back, okay? You make the queen of the best carnival parade a drag queen. You know? It'll certainly get tails wagged. It'll get tongues wagged and that's for sure.

Well, look, I hope you're right about what your party does because we certainly need it. If we're gonna be burdened with this two party system, we do need one to be an active counterbalance to the equities of society against the other. So let's hope they step up and do their job. All right, man, good talking to you. James, thank you so much.

Always a pleasure, man. One of my favorite things to do. Be well. I'll talk to you soon. Look, he is a man who knows what has made his party go up and go down. Is he right about the exigencies of the moment? That's up to you. That is up to you.

Is he right about what the Democrats need to do? Well, that is a closer call, and I believe the answer is probably yes. But he laid it out pretty simply. Doesn't mean it's easy. And we are not seeing that from the bitch brigade of complainers that the Democrats have become right now. And it ain't getting them where they need to be. So will they change to be what James Carville says

they have to be to avert a national crisis? We'll see. I'm Chris Cuomo. Thank you very much for subscribing and following here at The Chris Cuomo Project, bringing you provocative conversations, conversations as cure analysis for your engagement, for your use. You tell me what's of value and more importantly, what is not.

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