The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Sallie Krawcheck Discusses Ellevest's Mission to Eliminate the Gender Investing Gap

Episode Date: December 9, 2019

Ellevest co-founder and CEO Sallie Krawcheck gives her take on the state of gender pay equity and workplace diversity and describes how her company empowers female investors. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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where women are included. The gender pay gap is a large conversation that we are having. As a whole, it feels like the world is moving in the right direction. As somebody who's been a CEO, though, do you agree with that? No, as someone who's a person, I don't, and a woman, it's not happening. The gender pay gap, which is decades away from closing for white women, a hundred plus years away from closing for black women, 200 plus years away from closing for Latino women. Wow.

Right? The number of female CEOs in the Fortune 500 has declined by 25 percent. We're not making any progress. We're not moving forward. And this is despite the fact that there's reams of research out there, Trevor that that says that, you know, as a capitalist society, we look for better returns. And that greater diversity at the top of these companies can lead to better returns, higher

profitability, greater innovation, etc. And we are going sideways at best, and in many cases backwards. So you were a CEO of Smith Barney, Merrill Lynch, wealth management. When you were in those positions, what did you notice from the top? Is there something that happens maybe when you're a CEO where you're like, oh, I can't help the ladies? Or like, what is there a roadblock that is an institutional thing? What is it?

Well, you know, the pipeline. We've got our divers' today. And so I think th th th th th th th thioes thioes thioes thioes thioes thioes thioes thioes thioes thioun, you thioun, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, the the pipe, the pipe, the pipe, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipeline, the pipe, the pipe, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, to and you know but we need to let our managers manage and so I think CEOs really do believe in the power of diversity but middle management is where diversity goes to die because when it comes time to promoting the next person and you say well I think I read some research one time about diversity drives better results but that young man that young man who reminds me so darn much of myself when I was younger I just feel like he's going to do a better. th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the the the the th th th th th th th the thi thi the the the th th. I th the the the the th. thi thi th. th. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the thi thi the the to the the the theeeee theeeeeeeeee the thi thi thi the the the thi thi that young man, that young man who reminds me so darn much of myself when I was younger, I just feel like he's going to do a better job. That's a powerful way to put it because you read so many times about how

people hire the people who remind them most of themselves. And so you have a vicious cycle of these men who are white, hiring white men who remind them of them of themselves and sometimes it's an implicit bias but but but but but but but but but but but but but but you. but you. but you. but you. But you. But you. But you. But you've the, but you've their, but you've th. But you've th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi's thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. thi. thi. to. the the thi. thi. the thi. the thi. th, hiring white men who remind them of themselves. And sometimes it's an implicit bias. But you've come out and said that you don't believe that bias training helps. You don't believe that these diversity programs help. And in fact- Why don't we just say everything we're doing doesn't help. Wow. Right? If we're not moving forward, what we're doing isn't working, what do thrown? I think CEOs deciding that it will be done and having it be done and overruling their

managers who aren't getting it done and really paying them for it. That's what works. Mark Benioff at sales force saying, you know, forget about the reasons that we're paying this person, you know, this woman lesson, this white guy, this person of color. We're just closing these gender pay gaps and just doing it is what makes the difference. Let me the the the argument you the argument you the argument you the argument you the argument you the argument you the argument you the argument the argument the argument the argument the argument the argument the argument the argument the argument the argument the argument the argument th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. I, th. I, th. I'm, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, I, th. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, the. I'm, the. I'm, the. I'm, the. I'm, the. I'm, the. I'm, the. I'm, the. I'm, the. I'm, the. I what makes the difference. Let me ask you this then. The argument that you hear a lot of CEO say or middle managers or anything, they always come back with the same thing, they go, well, Sally, I want to, I want to give these people promotions, but I mean, I don't just want to give the job to someone because she's a woman.

You know, I want to? The standards. Let's grab a beer. We should drive a company. This is nice. It's fun. But yeah, like it was good. But, yes. How do you answer to the research? Let's go back to the research. You and I have talked about this before.

The research shows that we're not lowering our standards in business in order to promote women and people of color, we actually hold them to a higher standard. That white men are promoted based on potential, I think that young man is going places. Let's give them a chance, whereas women and people of color are promoted based on what they've achieved. So when you hear, you know, gentlemen, when you hear your spouse, your friends, etc. Come home and say, gosh, I have to work twice as hard to make it, you know, as far, there really is some truth to this. And again, I think it's because of these implicit, I don't know if we want to use the word bias, but this comfort level we have with bringing along people like ourselves. So you took a step back and away from the world that you were in. You started this company called Elive, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, th. th. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, their, their, the, the, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, toge, toge, toge, toge, toge, toge, tha, tha, their, their, their, thr-a, their, th you were in. You started this company called Ellevest, which is specifically geared at helping women

to get investment money to start companies, which again is another problem. It's actually to help women invest. To help them invest. Why is that necessary? Well, right. Why would we have to do that? It's money, right? So we've talked a bit about the gender pay gap, but let's back up. There are all kinds of gender money gaps, and one is the gender investing gap.

Women don't invest as much as men do. Women keep the majority of their money in cash. Men invest more of it, so women haven't earned those returns. You know, for some of your views to be tens of thousands I worked in the investing industry, it was, well, you know, women, you need to change. Right. You need, you need to be less risk averse. You need to, you know, have more financial education. I stepped back and said, wait a second. In an industry in which 90% of fund managers are men, 86% of financial advisors are men. Maybe it's the industry that needs to change. Maybe an industry that's so male, built in to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be in to be in to be in to be in to be in to be in to be in the investing in to be in the industry that needs to change. Maybe an industry that's so male built and investing means that is all about winning and outperforming and

alpha and beating the market. And Trevor, the symbol of the investing industry is a bull. Right. It's a phallic symbol. I've seen the bulls. Right? I've never thought of it that way. I'm sorry, it's an anatomically correct phallic symbol. Why? Not a single woman I know says, you know, that bull just speaks to me. I love that bull. No, what she sees is an industry that doesn't represent her and that is telling, has told her how to change. And so I thought, well, why don't we start a company, Elvest, that actually changes, the quits trying to change her, but changes the underlying product to the way that she wants

to invest. Right. When you look at the men that work in the industry, you know, thapapap men who then don't seem to do the good thing. There are many men who will say, oh, I want this change to happen, I need it to happen. If they come up to you and they say to you, Sally, I would love for a woman to have this position, I just don't know where to find one. Where do they begin looking? Well, that's because their network themselves. And so they need to break out of their networks. One thing we hear at LVEST all the time, right? Because we're a financial technology company. We use technology to drive a better client experience.

We hear all the time, you can't find any women engineers. Just can't find them, right? They're impossible to find out. the beginning by bringing in a diverse workforce, who if they're having a good experience, reach out to their networks and say, you should be here. But if you're just hanging out with your network

of people just like you, who you love to golf with, right? Then no, I don't know anybody, or there must not be anybody out there. No, you just don't know them them them them trend that I've read about where sometimes women who are in positions of power seem to be the ones who block other women from progressing. Now we're going deep. Absolutely. She's got a name. She's a Queen Bee. And I'll tell you exactly why she does it,

because the world, the business world she's grown up in, she looks up and she says, oh, I see the leadership table and there's one woman there. Or there are two women there. There's one person of color there. I got it. So in order to get to that seat, I'm not competing with all of you guys, I'm competing with her. Wow. And her and her. And so she's just being economically smart historically

because if she wants that seat, she knows who she needs to knock out to get it. How do you change that thinking? Well again, you know it has to come from the top. Or increasingly it comes from the bottom. And what we're starting to see is, so we women got separated, right? Remember we used to, in college, all the women, we travel in packs, right? We don't go anywhere if we don't go in a pack. Oh, I remember. Right? So we get to the workforce, and they completely separated us.

We're competing against each other. Right. Right. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho. th. th. tho. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. tho. tho. tho. tho. too. thi. thi. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. to. to. to. to. We to. to. We to. to. to. to. to. the. to. to. the. the. the the the the the the th. th. the th. th. the th. the the too. We. the too. the the too. Wea. too. the tooo. Wea. too. too. Wea. too. Wea. toe. Wea. We toe. What these millennial women are doing is they're coming together, right? And they are affecting change, they're believing in each other. That's amazing. They're within companies like Nike doing surveys about what was a toxic culture there and then changing it. We're seeing them come when Susan Fowler called out the CEO of Uber. They're believing her, they're coming around her. So they're changing the paradigm the paradigm the paradigm the paradigm they're changing the paradigm the paradigm they're changing the paradigm, we the paradigm, the paradigm, their, their, their, their, they're coming around her, so they're changing the paradigm. So we women, we women are 51% of the workforce.

We direct 85% of consumer spending. We control $7 trillion of investable assets. But somehow we got convinced that we needed the men to empower us. Damn. Damn. You got deep. Thank you so much the phone to the show. Sunny Corkick everybody. Damn! You got deep. You got deep. Thank you so much the phone from the show.

Sunny Corkick, everybody. The Daily Show with Crevernoa, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central app. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central Podcast. If you're listening to this ad, it's no accident unless you forgot to hit Skip, but for marketers, finding the right audience matters, we worked hard for your attention. But you don't need to for your business. With Paramount Ads Manager, now you can reach huge audiences on the hottest shows on

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