The Daily Stoic - Ask Daily Stoic: Ryan and Coach George Raveling Talk Meeting Harry Truman, Reading and the Perils of Ego

Episode Date: May 28, 2020

On today’s podcast, Ryan talks with Coach George Raveling, the longtime college basketball coach and member of the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. They talk about Coach Raveling���s encounters with historical figures like Martin Luther King, Jr. and President Harry Truman, the benefits of reading, and much more. This episode is brought to you by Future. Future pairs you up with a remote personal trainer that you can get in touch with from your home. Your trainer will give you a full exercise regimen that works for your specific fitness goals, using the equipment you have at home. It works with your Apple Watch, and if you don’t already have one, Future will give you one for free. Sign up at tryfuture.com/stoic and get your first two weeks with your personal trainer for just $1.This episode is also brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs is the best platform for finding the right candidate to join your business. It’s the largest marketplace for job seekers in the world, and it has great search features so that you can find candidates with any hard or soft skills that you need. Visit http://linkedin.com/stoic to get fifty dollars off your first job post.Join Daily Stoic’s Read to Lead Challenge: http://dailystoic.com/read***If you enjoyed this week’s podcast, we’d love for you to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps with our visibility, and the more people listen to the podcast, the more we can invest into it and make it even better.Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: DailyStoic.com/signupFollow @DailyStoic:Twitter: https://twitter.com/ryanholidayInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanholiday/Facebook: http://facebook.com/ryanholidayYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/dailystoicFollow Coach George Raveling: Homepage: http://coachgeorgeraveling.com/Twitter: https://twitter.com/GeorgeRavelingInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/georgeraveling/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GeorgeRaveling/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoTiwy-xHvxsDUxQVmnLWHASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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For more, you can visit us at dailystowach.com. Hey there, it's Ryan Holliday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stowach Podcast. Today's guest is one of my favorite people in the whole world. His name is George Ravling. He is Hall of Fame basketball coach. She was formerly the basketball coach at Washington State University, Iowa, USC. He is actually one of the people who is instrumental in bringing Michael Jordan to Nike. He's a mentor to some of

the most influential coaches in college basketball. I've spent time with George and I've watched John Calipari column while we were hanging out. I've watched Shaka Smart column. I've spent time with George and I've watched John Calapari call him while we were hanging out, I've watched Shaka Smart call him, I've watched Buzz Williams who's been on the show. He is sort of known as the Godfather in college basketball. And if that weren't enough, if he hadn't had just that impact,

I think the incredible, incredible fact about George traveling is that George traveling owns the original type written draft of the I Have a Dream speech, which Martin Luther King Jr. gave him because George Ravelin was at the podium doing security for the March on Washington. George had an incredible story.

It's basically his father died when he was young. His mother was unfortunately put in a mental institution. So he sort of raised by his grandmother. And then he went to a series of Catholic schools, including Villanova, where he sort of thrived as a basketball player. He served briefly in the Air Force and made his way into coaching after his basketball career was the first African-American basketball coach in what's now the Pac-12 and just influenced all sorts of people that you've

heard of and is known as the Godfather in basketball for good reason. But he has just been a mentor of mine, a friend of mine, someone whose message I've tried to help get out in the world. He did a fascinating long interview with Tim Ferris, which I helped set up. I believe he has also done one with Jordan Harbinger and Rich Rol and Ryan Hawke. So there's lots of places you can listen to George's message on. I wanted to ask him about some very specific things. He's a big reader. George actually bought a copy of my book,

Ego is the enemy for all of the coaches at his Hall of Fame induction a few years ago. So I wanted to talk to him about his reading practice. I wanted to talk to him about how he, as an 82 year old, is dealing with the COVID-19 crisis. It strikes me that it's easy for a lot of us to say, oh, this isn't a big deal, you know, the mortality rates are not high,

but you know, it's a totally different ballgame when you're in your 80s. And so as George about that, and I also wanted to ask him something I hadn't heard him talk about, I asked him about how he met Harry Truman. And as I say, the thing, I'm just fascinated that I knew a person who knew Harry Truman,

I just read David McCullough's biography of Truman, which is an incredible book. And weirdly, I actually think there's some similarities between Truman's story and Co-Trave's story. So I'm so excited to bring you this interview. Now, look, a caveat upfront, this is not the greatest audio quality. I wanted to record it on Zencaster.

That's typically what we use to record our interviews. Although George is very active and tech savvy, he doesn't use a laptop or an iPad. He does everything on his phone. So he said, how can we make this happen on his phone? So I had him call me and I just recorded the call. Now I'm out on my farm in Texas. And so the service wasn't the best. So if

the call cuts out a little or you can't hear all of it, I strongly urge you to stick with it. It's a great interview. There's wisdom from him from the beginning to end. And so I am excited to present to you one of my favorite people in the whole world. I can't even believe I'm like skipping accomplishments. You know, he coached on the NBA dream team in the Olympic world. I can't even believe I'm like skipping accomplishments. You know, he coached the NBA dream team in the Olympic Games. He actually coached the team that famously beat the dream team in a one-on-one scrimmage.

There's incredible stories of George out there. I get into a few of them. I can't wait for you to listen. Talk to you soon. I know most people ask you about that I have a dream speech which you have the I have a dream speech which you had the incredible experiencing of witnessing live and then and then possessing the

actual speech but what I loved about that story is that you know you kept it in your copy of Harry Truman's memoirs which Truman had given you. Can you walk me through that story and and what it was like to meet one of the most influential people of the 20th century? Let's set the tone a little bit, Ryan. So the two books which I possess were given to me by President Truman. And one is called Memoirs by Harry Truman, Years of Decision, and it's a two-billion, and the other one is Years of Prylon Hope.

So putting it in a context inside, he signed the books to me. So it says, Best Wishes George Raddling from Harry S. Truman, and's March 3, 2460. What I found interesting, Ryan, is I opened a book and happened to look over to the left hand inside and the cost of the book at that time was $5. Wow. So I got two books that I've got a book with it cost me $10. And so as we backtracked 1960 was the year I graduated from the Lonova. And I was on the basketball team. And I got selected to play the East West All Star game in Kansas City. And at that time, that was the biggest college All-Star

game in America. And it was a huge piece of prestige to be selected. And so when we arrived in Kansas City, I think the hotel is the new box. I think the hotel's still in Kansas City right now. And so we stayed there and the game was played in Kansas City and so that the players were invited out to meet President Truman in Independence Resort. So they took us out and we met with President Truman and I was kind of awestruck like maybe a fan would be with Michael Jordan, Joe to Madgel or Jim Brown or someone but his office was a replica of the Oval Office and we walked in. Was this at his library? Yes. Yes. And so when we walked in, he greeted us, and then he sat behind his desk, much like we were guest at the Oval Office at the White

House. And what struck me was his presence. I mean, he had such a gracefulness about him and simplicity and he was humble. That was amazing that he never let us feel that this was just a function of the day. I mean, he made us feel special where he looked at us and he shook our hand in it. And at the end, he thanked each one of us personally for coming. And he did everything he could to make us feel special. And I used to humans, we say, only me and my laundry man knew how nervous I was when I shook his hand. And now I look back at that, I realize I met the president who probably made the other in Lincoln had the toughest decision to make of maybe any president average and dropped up the atomic bomb.

And how much courage did it take to do that? And I still, I can't comprehend what it took to do that, to make that decision right or wrong. And so I take the books back home and I keep them obviously in a special place because how many people can say that they have a personally signed book to them from a president of the United States. So now we fast forward to the March on Washington and and rather than get into a long talk unless you want to, I ended up with the original copy

that King spoke from at the March on Washington and the so-called I have a dream speech and because I was a security person at right by the point. So I subsequently, I put the King's speech inside one of the Truman books because I would, one, I would always remember where it was. And two, I knew I would never throw the Truman books away. And so if you were to see the document now,

you would still see the creases in the pages that were folded for so many years. So the King's feet stayed inside of the Harry Truman books for well over 50 years. It was 40 years, Ryan, before anybody even realized that I had the document, it's been authenticated by, by the top three authentication people in the world have come in over time and have looked at

and studied the document and authenticated. So that was the time between Harry Truman and Martin Luther King and myself, because the president's books served as a storage vault for many, many years. What I so love about that, and it's interesting that your mind gravitated there too. You know, there's this idea like can a single individual change history? And I think sort of academically people argue against that. But I think Harry Truman is such a great example.

I mean, this guy ran a clothing store in Missouri and then ended up, you know, as FBR's running mate and then was the president of the United States, dropped the atomic bomb, integrated the armed forces, which was a major civil rights advancement, you know, the Berlin blockade, the Truman doctrine, the Marshall Plan. Like, here was one ordinary person who had such an incredible impact on history. I have goosebumps just thinking that I met a person who met that person. What fascinates me, Ryan, is how did he prepare

himself when you look back at his growth? It was simple, I mean, there are millions of people whose lives growing up could mirror trillions. But to this day, I still ask myself, how was he able to make such a significant difference in the, not in his own life, but the life of our country. And what made him think he could pull this off? Well, have you read the David McCullough biography of Truman? I have it. I have.

And David's one of my favorite authors, by the way, but, but, no, I have not, but now I, I think he would move that enough to my top of my list. I just read it a few months ago and I found it to be so incredible. And it strikes me as a couple, there's a couple answers to your question. I mean, one, I think he was salted the earth, American, all the good values of American.

Truman had clear ethical lines that he observed, you know, he worked hard. He was working off bits from his clothing store when he became president. He never, you know, that he grew up in a time of some of the most corrupt politics in America, but, you know, he never enriched himself. But I think one of the things that actually ties into what I wanted to ask you next is the Truman was a huge reader and actually to tie into what I talk about here at the early still. If he was obsessed with Marcus Aurelius and he loved those, the four he writes in one of his letters, the sort of virtues of wisdom, courage, and justice and temperance, he learned that from the sort of the

education that he gave himself. He's one of the last presidents to not go to college. And so I wondered what you thought of that famous quote from Truman. You know, he said, not all leaders or leaders, but all leaders or leaders. And that strikes me as something very true about your life as well. Yeah, I probably the value of quotient of reading for me was probably different, obviously, than Truman's, but I think when I, in the moments of quiet during the day, when I think back about my life and reading and, and so forth, I find the early origin of about reading came from my grandma. When I was a little boy, my grandma used to make me sit and watch her

cook in the kitchen. And my grandma never got past eighth grade, but she had common sense. but she had common sense. And so she would make me sit there and watch a cook. And so it turned out, as I realized in my adult life, it was a classroom. She was teaching me how to cook by observation. And then she would have conversations with me why I was sitting there. And so one time she said to me she said, you know, back in the days of

slavery, the plantation owners used to hide their money in books. And I said, Grandma, why did they do that? She said because they knew the slaves couldn't read, so they would never take the books down. And so to me, the moral of that story was, as long as someone can control your mind, they can control your body. And so I think that was the early revelation to me of why books had to be more relevant in my life. And then I started to realize, you know, George, you've got a moral obligation to read that people die,

to read that people die, literally die to get you to write to read. If you remember your history, George, there was a time in America when it was illegal for a person to teach a black person how to read. There was a time in America when a black person could not get a library card. The libraries were segregated. And so people die to get me the right to read. So am I going to dishonor their debts? I'm not reading. I see it in a broader context than just reading to learn or reading for entertainment. I feel personally I have an obligation to honor those people's debts.

They died so that I could have the opportunity to read. And people asked me, when you were growing up, did you read a lot? Hell no. The only books I saw in my young life were school books. That were the only books I knew. Black books, I couldn't afford a book, even though they, when I was a little kid,

was a lot of money. And so I can tell you that when I grew up, there were books in my home, because if they were, there were old books. I were the only books that I knew. When I was growing up as a young kid and watched a DC 7, 8, 9, 10 years old, every day was about survival. When you got up in the morning, you were happy that you survived for another day.

And so you get up in the morning and you look out the window and a tip to stand and you say, I made it another day, but it's all about survival. And so along the way, I continued to progress to where I finally get a basketball scholarship to go and over. It really wasn't until I got to go and over that,

that I started to realize the wonder of reading it and how it could separate you from other people. And you and I have the buddies. I don't think I've ever told you this, but when I was in class my freshman year, there would be people in the class that someone would say, that guy's really smart. And so as time went on in the class, I would listen to the person or persons, and then I would think to myself, well, I know that, and so then I would say to myself, was that guy smart? Maybe I'm smart. And so, a lot of this was just about self-discovery, trying to... I had no idea at the time but I was in search of myself and who who I was and I'm trying to find an identity for myself as a student at

Wilnover. So over the time once I got out I, I used to keep a collage of four people in a frame in my office, and particularly when I was working at Nike, and it was Martin Luther King, James Baldwin, Malcolm X, and Muhammad Ali. So people would come in the office and they would see this collage and they would say to me, why do you have that up there? And I said, they're my mentors.

Well, most people could only readily identify King. And then they had no idea who balled with us. And then some people might figure out Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali. So they say, well, you know all those guys, I said, no, I only knew one. Martin Luther King. And one of the, I said to me, but you said they're your mentors. I said to him, a person doesn't have to be alive to be your mentor or you don't have to know the person to be your mentor. You just have to know about them and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and I progress from having notebooks as a youngster to a library at my home right now that we have over 3000 books. That's the evolution of it.

And so now, you know, I've had to develop my own reading style. I really believe more people would aggressively read if they could create their own style or reading. We're taught you read from front to back, all the things, but what I've done is I decided I'm going to make my own rules for reading. And so I've developed them over the years. And as a result, it's helped inflame a passion in me about reading. And it's not just, God knows you know this and I learned it from you.

It's not enough to read. That's the first step. You've got to learn and then you've got to understand. So when I pick up a book, I realize I've got three quests. One, to read the book, to learn from the book, and to understand what I've learned. And then can I make it applicable in my everyday life? And one of the things that I'm grappling with now, I guess, is about my fifth week of house arrest, I haven't been to a bookstore. And I go to bookstore on a normal day, five times a week.

I go in the bookstore and search for good things. I mean, one of my real worries is when we get on the other side of this, that will bars and nobles still exist? Will bookstores still be present? And a lot of people when I express this, they say, oh, you don't have to worry because Amazon, it's not the same. It's not the same. I mean, I can't tell you how many books are I and I've discovered by accident,

by just going in a bookstore and going through my little ritual that I go through and I discovered books that I would have never known other than the fact that I was in search of new read. Two things, what you were saying, I think are important. One, if someone's not a reader and they're lists right now, you're the great example of, it's never too late.

Obviously, it would be better to have a reading of it early in life, but it doesn't matter when you start, it matters that you get started. And so I love that your story, you didn't come to reading really until you were in college. But the other part is I did that reading was something that slaves were forbidden from doing.

I mean, you know, there's this cliche, we go, knowledge is power. But to me, there's not greater proof of the idea that knowledge is power, then the fact that in the vicious power struggle between master and slave for hundreds of years in this country, books were considered an important battleground.

There's a reason that slaves owners didn't want their slaves to read except it would make them harder to control. It would make the moral catastrophe that was slavery more obvious to the slaves and the injustice of it more undeniable. And so, yeah, reading is a powerful thing, and we can't just voluntarily relinquish that power, which, unfortunately, is what a lot of people do by deciding not to read. And right, one of the things that I've come to realize in the last two or three years is in some ways

we still have a sophisticated form of someone controlling what we can read. And almost all states in the United States, there's a board that has to approve what books are used for correctalums in the schools. And I'm not going to be able to say that all the books are right now, but I just read an article in the last 48 hours where in Alaska, the great gaps we was wanted to books, but this panel that approves the books for the state of Alaska had five books on there that they would not

approve for use in the school system. So I'm trying to say to myself is that they don't trust us to read these books? I'm trying to figure out why we even have someone who decides what we can read and what we cannot read as we're learning and growing as adults should not some of that choice be ours. So should not some of that choice be ours? And at some point, you're not gonna be able to hide the truth for us forever. No, I think that's right. And another example of that is just what books are allowed and not allowed in the prison system

or in certain government buildings. That was one of the things that Joseph McCarthy focused on, which was what books did government officials have at US embassies around the world. And yeah, when people are trying to control people, one of the first things that they go to are the books that are allowed to read. Coach, one of the things I wanted to ask you about

just because I know you sent me an email about it a week or so ago and you and I had talked about it when I was researching stillness is the key. You're obviously, you go way back with Michael Jordan. Are you loving the last dance documentary? Yeah, I am. It's taught me a good lesson. Don't everything you know is much as you think that's the answer to that. Is that the answer to that? Is that the answer to that? Is that the answer to that?

Is that the answer to that? Is that the answer to that? Is that the answer to that? Is that the answer to that? Is that the answer to that? Is that the answer to that? Is that the answer to that? Is that the answer to that?

Is that the answer to that? Is that the answer to that? I guess Dan's has answered a lot of questions of why. So now I understand why he felt this way about certain people, things and systems. And I can now better understand why he acted the way he didn't certain circumstances and that it's been an amazing revelation to me, not just about Michael, but basketball, the styles of play, the coaching. I was particularly fascinated on this last one about the evolution of Phil Jackson as a coach going from, from never coaching to become one of the greatest coaches of all time.

And I love those scenes when on the bench Phil Jackson's in his early stage and sitting there with Tex winners and Johnny Bach. And he has a notebook and he's taking notes doing the game and the strategies that he used to coach. Maybe he wanted a most complex gathering of talent in the history of Pro Basketball. How he was to take all these uncommon pieces and build them into a championship team and

how he was able to get buy-in and trust. There's probably 10 stories being told at one time. Yeah, I thought two things struck me that I was curious your thoughts on one. You know, obviously the bulls are one of the greatest franchises of all times. And so in ego, at the end of me, I make the argument that ego holds people back.

I think so far the documentary was a great example, someone like Jerry Krause, obviously his ego didn't prevent him from being successful at all, but it was so obvious that his ego prevented him from being more successful, that it essentially tore the franchise apart. So if you're curious your thoughts on that and then the other one which I don't think at least four episodes in, I don't feel like they'd truly shown the cost to Jordan of some of the anger that he carried, some of the the resentment that he carried, you know like that he was so driven by for instance that that desire to prove his father wrong or prove some of his coaches wrong it feels like maybe they lost over that a little bit. Yeah, I think some of that could be intentional. I think the producers have found a good pathway of telling a complex story.

And like most good writers yourself included, you're always trying to leave your reader wanting more. And so in this case, I think they wanted, they're trying to wet the appetite of the audience. And I think they like the conversations we're having. Well, why haven't they shown this? And so they keep your interest of curiosity at a very high level. And the one thing I take away from the early parts is greatness is complex.

It's uncommon. You know, one thing you'll hear about most uncommon people as they'll say, oh, they have such a big ego. But to me, I think that's a prerequisite of greatness. It is, and you go to see things that other people don't see, to do things that other people don't do, to say things that other people don't do, to go down the roads that nobody else travels, to me, inherent in all of greatness, is the uncommonness of it all?

Sure, but I don't know, I was just struck by the way, that crowds sort of continually sought out conflict and sought to make it about him, and sought like, you know, even just, you know, driving Phil Jackson out, you know, not treating Scottie Pippin well. It struck me that that was really a factor that caused, the bulls probably maybe a few more,

it's not several more championships for really no upside. Maybe a perspective that we could examine Ryan is, for some people, for them to reach your outer limits, they need conflict to drive them. And peace, they're not as good when peace and tranquillity is the environment. But when there's all this conflict and a disunity, it drives, it's the fuel that runs the vehicle, that human vehicle is fueled by that. That the peace and tranquillity gets some nervous and they feel inadequate.

And they feel adequate when there's a lot of excitement drama going on, this unity. Because then they kind of, in a way, feel like, OK, now I get on the white horse and I'll calm the orders. No, I think that's a profound observation. And I've met a number of those people in life. I think in a weird way that's an attitude that can often make someone extraordinarily successful I just found in my study of history that tends also to be an attitude that leads to very you know

cataclysmic falls because eventually the person tangles with the wrong enemy or you know blows up something that they work very hard to build. I don't know about you but I tend to have a lot of sympathy and pity for that person even if they're really difficult to be around even if they even if they make my life miserable ultimately I feel sadness for them because I know that the person who bears the true brunt of what that must be like is themselves. Yeah, right.

One of the things that I think about people who are extraordinary or uncommon, they have the quality of ability to stand in their own troops. And for most people, they can't stand in their own troops. I think this, what standing in their own troops is applicable, the Phil Jackson, to Michael, the Kraus. God knows the guy who, who most people didn't even really known that it costs you a job college. I mean, there's so many examples in so far of people who have the courage to stand in their own truth. I think it's something that goes under discussion in our society today is this whole idea about having the courage to stand in your own

troops. No, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. And the self-respect to do that. Coach, I'm so grateful for your time. I had one last question that something I know I've asked you about before, as someone who's now in your 80s who's been around before, who's been through some bad times in America and experienced some of the hope and redemption in America brings

how are you feeling about the state of things right now? And I'm just wondering if you have any wisdom for it. I'm going to give you the grammar's wisdom. Choose to say it's always darkest before the sun shines. And that's where I think we'll come to learn from this is that the American people are resilient. They're loving, forgiving, caring people. I mean, we're being deluge with random acts of kindness, not every day, every second,

somewhere in the globe. Someone is exercising a random act of kindness. And so there's a hell of a lot that we've been challenged with, but there's a hell of a lot of love and kindness in our people. Not just American people, it's really showed us, I'll go back to what I said before. In a very simple way, there's a hell of a lot of people who are standing in their truth. Now, that's beautiful and I think that's a great sort of

still a question, which is like, you decide what lens to look at that. Do you look at all the awful things that are happening in the institutions that have failed and the leaders that have dropped the ball? Or do you look at the leaders who have stepped up or the institutions that have endured the pressure? Do you think, obviously, for me, at being at my 30s, I'm not that worried about a virus. I know the odds are in my favor, right? If it must be a different experience to be 80

and to have had some health problems. How are you managing what I must suspect might be some anxiety or worry or even fear? How do you manage it? I just go to bed every night and I think to myself and pray for a better tomorrow. And just keep it simple, just when wake up in the morning and it'll be a better tomorrow than it was. And for me personally, hell, I've already hit the lottery. Man, I've had the blessing to be on this earth for 82 years. There's a large segment of American population. I'll never make it to 40.

I've been on the planet for 82 years. I've already hit the ladder. Anything I get from here on out is a bonus. That, you know, Sennika actually said the exact same thing. He said, the man who tells himself at the end of the day, I've lived my life, I'm done every morning you awake is a bonus and so I just love that intuitively that's how that's how you live and and honestly I feel better just hearing those words out of your mouth

and and I I always feel better talking to you coach. Well thank you I want to I want to say this to you publicly you've really been a positive, different smaker in my life. And you're a good example of elders need young mentors. And you've been a great young mentor for me. And I want to thank you for that. Well, young people need older mentors. So I'm glad that we're helping each other out. and I hope you can be around for us a lot longer.

And I hope you're being safe and taking care of yourself because we need you now more than ever. Well, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to have a conversation with the Thanksgiving coach and we'll check out a bookstore together as soon as we can. But do it. All right. Hey, it's Ryan. When I was trying to think of the right sponsor to conclude this episode, I figured, you know what? There's probably not a better call to action for this interview

with George Ravling, one of the most dedicated readers that I've known, one of the most didactic people that I know, then tell you a little bit about our daily stoke, read to lead challenge It's actually based around a quote from Harry Truman You know Truman famously said not all readers are leaders, but all leaders are readers And so I think if you want to be a leader if you want to be great at what you do whether it's coaching basketball or playing basketball or you know leading a sales team, you've got to be a reader.

And so what we've done is we've taken some of the best practices, the best advice from the Stoics around reading and built a structure sort of a course on how to be a better, more intentional reader, how to recall what you read better, how to find what books to read, how to push yourself beyond your capacity, how to get better as a reader. And so this is one of the most popular challenges we've done. It's got a great response from thousands and thousands of people all over the world now. I think you'll really get a lot out of it. And you can check that out at dailystoic.com slash reading.

Hey, Prime Members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic early and ad-free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts. Hey there listeners, while we take a little break here, I want to tell you about another podcast that I think you'll like. It's called How I Built This, where host Guy Razz talks to founders behind some of the We take a little break here, I want to tell you about another podcast that I think you'll like. It's called How I Built This, where host Guy Razz talks to founders behind some of the world's biggest and most innovative companies, to learn how they built them from the ground up.

Guy has sat down with hundreds of founders behind well-known companies like Headspace, Manduke Yoga Mats, Soul Cycle, and Cotopaxi, as well as entrepreneurs working to solve some of the biggest problems of our time, like developing technology that pulls energy from the ground to heat in cool homes, or even figuring out how to make drinking water from air and sunlight. Together they discuss their entire journey from day one, and all the skills they had to learn along the way, like confronting big challenges and how to lead through uncertainty. So if you want to get inspired and learn how to think like an entrepreneur, check out how

I built this, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon or Wondery app.