The Daily Stoic - Chris Bosh on the Pursuit of Greatness | Do You Make Others Better?

Episode Date: July 28, 2021

Ryan reads today’s meditation and talks to Chris Bosh about his new book Letters To A Young Athlete, how you never really “make it” in life, the importance of putting everything into what you do even when it’s tough, and more. This episode was originally recorded for a Barnes and Noble Virtual Event.Chris Bosh fell in love with basketball at an early age and earned the prestigious “Mr. Basketball” title while still at Lincoln High School in Dallas, Texas. A McDonald’s All-American, Bosh was selected fourth overall by the Toronto Raptors after one year attending Georgia Tech. In March 2019, Bosh’s #1 jersey was officially retired for the Miami Heat. Bosh regularly speaks to youths about the benefits of reading, coding, and leadership. Bosh, his wife, Adrienne, and their five children reside in Austin, Texas.The Daily Stoic Leadership Challenge is a masterclass in leadership with the cadence and rigor of a boot camp. It is also a live course, which means all participants will join the course together and move through together at the same pace to their own version of the same goal—to be a great leader. Registration is now officially open over at dailystoic.com/leadershipchallenge. Registration will close on Saturday, July 31st at midnight CST.Beekeeper’s Naturals is the company that’s reinventing your medicine with clean, effective products that actually work. Beekeepers Naturals has great products like Propolis Spray and B.LXR. Visit beekeepersnaturals.com/STOIC or enter code “STOIC” to get 20% off your first order.The Jordan Harbinger Show is one of the most interesting podcasts on the web, with guests like Kobe Bryant, Mark Manson, Eric Schmidt, and more. Listen to one of Ryan's episodes right now (1, 2), and subscribe to the Jordan Harbinger Show today.KiwiCo believes in the power of kids and that small lessons today can mean big, world-changing ideas tomorrow. KiwiCo is a subscription service that delivers everything your kids will need to make, create and play. Get 30% off your first month plus FREE shipping on ANY crate line with code STOIC at kiwico.com. Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: http://DailyStoic.com/signupFollow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookFollow Chris Bosh: Homepage, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTubeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members. You can listen to the Daily Stoic podcasts early and add free on Amazon music download the app today Welcome to the Daily Stoic podcast where each weekday we bring you a Meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics a short passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well-known and obscure, fascinating and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are and also to find peace and wisdom in their actual lives. But first we've got a quick message from one of our sponsors.

Hi I'm David Brown, the host of Wonderree's podcast business wars. And in our new season, Walmart must fight off target, the new discounter that's both savvy and fashion forward. Listen to business wars on Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you make others better? We talked on Monday about how Marcus had really waited in the wings for 23 years before putting on the imperial purple. Marcus was no doubt an impressive ruler, but in one sense his reign pales in comparison to Antoninus. What made Antoninus Pius great was how great he made Marcus Aurelius, because that's what leaders do. The leadership

coach Randall Stumpman, who has worked with nearly every major hedge fund in CEO on Wall Street, has said that after two and a half decades of studying and working with the best and the brightest, he came to a simple definition of what it means to be a leader. He said, leaders make people better. That's it. Whenever you're acting with the intention of making something or someone better, Stuttman says, you're leading. And his usual, Seneca got there first.

Happy is the man who can make others better. He said not merely when he is in their company, but even when he is in their thoughts. He said, nobody can live happy if he cares only for himself, if he turns everything to his own benefit. You have to live for others, he said, if you want to live for yourself.

And isn't that really what Antoninus did? He took this raw recruit, this promising kid with potential, and he shaped him into the King he became. The question for you and for everyone then is, do you do this? Who are you making better? Where is your leadership being applied at work, at home, in your community? And more importantly, how are you actively working at improving this skill, this skill of

making people better, investing in and working at improving this skill, this skill of making people better, investing in and working at being a better leader, because it doesn't just happen, you have to work it. As Marcus Aurelius writes in meditations, people are our proper occupation. My job is to do them good, he says, versions of this job description, fill meditations. When we make others better, he writes, we perform our function.

And in another spot, he talks about the actions he takes that benefit others. As we talked about the other day, leadership is a process, not a position. It's the work of a lifetime. And it's about working to get a little better today than you were yesterday, because when you do, the people around you do as well.

And that is a leader's only job. As it happens Randall Stuttman, is actually one of the leadership experts we talked to in one of the weekly deep dives in the Daily Stoic Leadership Challenge, ancient wisdom for modern leadership. I'm so excited to talk to him. I can't wait to share his insights with you

and connect all of you with him. He's been a coach and a mentor of me over the years. I've gotten to speak to some of the hedge funds and companies he advises as a result. I'm so excited about the Daily Stoke Leadership Challenge. It's awesome. It's a nine-week course. It's super intensive. I'm calling it a challenge for a reason. Becoming the leader isn't easy, but it is something you have to invest in. You have to work on that is, as Thomas Rick said, the work of our life. So I am really excited to bring this to you.

You get an email every day for nine weeks. This is an intensive thing. You get videos. There's deep dives with me, office hours with me, a whole bunch of great stuff. I can't wait to share this one with you. But look, registration closes for the course on Saturday, July 31st at midnight central time.

That's it. You can't join it after that. There's a one time thing. I can't wait to share you the course. I'd love to have you sign up at dailystoke.com slash leadership challenge. Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoke Podcast. As you know, I am a writer. I've read books.

The hard part about being an author compared to being a writer is it's a hard thing to get your rep set, right? To get your 10,000 hours at. I've published more books than most people, but even so, I've only had like, you know, a dozen or so at bats. And how can you be graded something if you only get to do it one or two times in your life? This also makes your sort of financial life a bit bumpy and rocky as well. So one of the things I do, I don't know if you know this about me, but I do ghostwriting. And I consult on book projects. I operate as a book producer on a lot of book projects.

This is what my company, Bras Check, is now done for going on 10 years. We've worked on all sorts of awesome projects. Some of which you've heard of, some of which we leave to the author, some of which we prefer to operate in the background of. But one of the projects that was cool enough to come my way about two years ago now was with the NBA champion, All-Star,

Olympic gold medalist Chris Bosch. You may have heard my interview with him a couple weeks ago, where he came by the painted porch bookstore and we sat and talked my first in-person post-vaccine interview. Well, as part of the launch, I was lucky enough to work on this book with Chris. I learned a lot from him. I think we got along great. I think the book that came out of it letters to a young athlete. It's a fantastic book. Honored to have been a part of it. I think it's got the legs to go

the distance. I think it's relevant if you're a coach, if you're a parent, if you're a young athlete, if you're anyone is trying to be great at what you do, I think there's a lot you can learn from. Just like I learned a bunch from reading letters to a young jazz musician by Winston Marseilles or letters to a young poet by Rilke, even though I'm not a poet or a jazz musician, I love those books of advice.

And that's what I helped Chris make. And I think he really delivered the goods and I was lucky enough to just sort of arrange it and put it all together. People really liked my episode with him from a couple weeks ago. So he and I also did an event for Barnes and Noble where I interviewed him and then some questions from the audience came in. I asked Barnes and Noble if I could publish it here. And they said yes. So you can listen to this bonus conversation with myself and the one and only Chris Bosch, one of the great rebounders and big men of all time,

member of the great big three, him, LeBron James, Duane Wade, two time champion, one of the great super teams of all time. And we talk about a bunch of great stuff in this interview that you will love. You can check out his book, Letters to a Young Athlete, of course, at Barnes & Noble. That's through this event with supporting. You can also check it out at my bookstore, ThePaintedPortch.com. And of course, we'll have a link in the show notes.

We may still have some signed copies. He signed a bunch. But anyways, I've been hearing rave things about the book and of course anytime I can bring you access to a fascinating person like Chris Bosch. I'm going to do it. So here's my conversation with Chris. Chris, how are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm doing excellent. So I'm excited to host this for everyone who doesn't know who my guest tonight is. I'm talking to two time NBA champion, 11 time NBA All-Star Olympic gold medalist and

new inductee to the basketball hall of fame and author of the new book which you see behind him and behind me here as well, letters to a young athlete. We're going to talk for about 20-ish minutes and then we're going to get to your questions which you guys can put in the chat and then some of you pre-wrote them in. But let's not waste any time. Let's just get into it. My first question for you, Chris, is what is harder riding a book or winning an NBA championship? Winning an NBA championship, for sure. They both, of course, do present their challenges and trying to get this book accomplished was quite the challenge. For unforeseen reasons, things just happen in life,

but just continuing to stick with the idea and just continuing to go through that process. That's a part of it. And it's this funny thing with competition. It's just, it's something else about knowing that sometimes your best just isn't good enough and taking that challenge and accepting that if you come up short of your goal. And you know, I mean, you know, when it lose, there's always something to learn, right? It's a game at the end of the day, but it's like these little many life lessons over and over

and over, you know? So, yeah, the championship stuff, it was so much more, I was able to focus and concentrate on a project like this. So, yeah. Yeah, I guess it's sort of, it's complicated in that, you know, on the one hand, to win an MBA championship, you have to beat out 500 of the best people in the world

at your profession, right? And so, there's competition, which is hard, it's an obstacle, but also competition helps you rise to the level of competition. What's interesting about a book and I think sort of what you're embarking on as far as a journey is now, is now the competition with yourself, which is both harder and easier, right? No one made you do this. No, like, you have to do it. So I was curious if you had any thoughts on sort of the difference between team,

like the sort of what they call the finite game of sports where it's very well defined, and that makes it harder in some ways, then there's life, the game of life, which is easier, and that you don't have to do anything, but it's harder in that nobody is channeling you in a specific direction. Man, you hit it right on the head. I mean, those were one of the things that bothered me most in my post career. But then again, I looked at it from a approach of empathy like, man, at least I had basketball, right?

I had that activity to, you know, I had that reason to be motivated to, you know, get the grades necessary to pass my class or, you know, or to get that notoriety if you want to. It feels good when people cheer you on, you know? I had, I started to have empathy for those people that don't have. You have. I, we've talked about this before, but I was in Robotic's club back in high school. And so that's something like that. How many kids miss out on an opportunity?

Because they're in a robotics situation, and that's as their talent, and there's no resources. You can, in life, you can just kind of float around and nothing happens. situation and that's their talent and there's no resources. Sure. You know, you can, in life, you can just kind of float around and nothing happens. And, you know, even for myself, I had to, I had to figure something out because I, I did not like that feeling at all. I realized how structured my life had been. And so I had to be the organizer and the person to structure my own time.

That was a hard part. How are you thinking about that with your kids now? Have they have any of them read the book yet? Have you forced them to listen to the audio book? Have you reading it? I've got. No, not yet. Each one of them have a copy.

And it's funny. I haven't given them one, but I've noticed it's a copy in their rooms, in each one of their rooms. I wouldn't force them to read it. They hear me say a lot of these things, and especially after consuming it over and over and over and going through it, you know, it becomes a part of your language. Yeah, so eventually, but you know, they can read their aspiring readers. They're excellent readers and yeah, they do have a copy by their bed. I just, you know, I'll take my time with it. I won't, I won't push it too much.

Well, that was one of the things you told me as you were working on the book, is that you were looking for the kind of book that could have existed when you were a young athlete. It is funny. there's so much pressure and there's this whole system built around taking talented kids and teaching them sports and making them good at sports. But there isn't a lot of, I don't wanna call it moral instruction,

but there's not a lot, we just kind of assume they're gonna pick up the other lessons that come along with it. And there's not a lot of great books for young people that are talented. And you talk about in the book, you had this sort of moment, I think it was with Coach Bishop,

where he goes, what are you gonna do with this? What are you gonna make of this talent that you have? And I think that's a crossroads that's really important. Yeah, I mean, it really is. Because, you know, it's kind of like in the chapter in the book, Finding Your Wild, right? You know, really, really having these thought-provoking conversations with yourself, because, you know, that was the first time I saw the look in someone's eyes when it's like, oh, wow, he sees what

I feel, what I know I think I have. And it didn't, it wasn't a conversation about talent anymore, you know, you can take talent off of it because, I remember telling him, I wanna go to Division One College, that's my dream, that's easy. What after that, what after that, why are you doing it? And you need to think about these things. And you know, it always, it always stuck with me. So,

you know, those are the like the, the appreciations I have now looking back on the game, because even though I didn't know, or quite understand what he was saying at the time, it stayed back there and I remember it to this day, as you know, and talk about it to this day. But it is one of those moments to where it's like, yeah, I remember this moment like it was yesterday. And I feel that this is important for others to hear because it could help them if they're in a similar situation. Yeah, I was thinking about, you know, we just, again, we just sort of expect kids to figure stuff out or people that figure stuff out.

My favorite chapter in the book is where you're talking about winning and losing. You know, when we think of your career, when we think of athletes, we think of winning, right? Yeah. You know, but the athletes that have won the most have also lost the most most of the time. Like I was, I just Google this as we were sitting here, Bill Bellicek has lost as a head coach 161 games.

You know, like Tom Brady has lost, I think three, maybe four Super Bowls. Yeah. It hurts. It hurts and you have to do it a lot. Like you get, you don't want to make losing a habit. And yet, if you are successful, it's a given. You will have lost a lot of games too.

I tell people all the time, I lost way more games in my career of basketball. Oh, man, bless our hearts. When we were 10 years old, we were one of the worst teams in Bitty Basketball. We were like, there's only one team in the league we could beat. And then I got to middle school and we were okay.

And I got to high school and then I started winning, but then I can went right back down to the bottom of the Totem pole in college and the NBA. And I mean, it's just a part of the process. You have to understand what you're up against. And when you take those lumps, right? When you lose a game and you feel that pain, that's the source that has to drive you next time.

So next time, if there's a loose ball, there's no question if I'm running it. Some people will think about it and you lose. It's not your fault. You just, you flinched. I'm going to work on not flinching next time. You know, that was, and, you know, conditioning my body to really take the beating because it's not easy. If you're trying to accomplish something great, you have to understand that. It's not going to be easy. You're going to have to really put the work in day to day and stay consistent.

And especially if you say you're going to do something, you got to stick to it and continue on the path. Yeah, you think about a game like baseball, for instance. Like if you have it, if you had your career in baseball, how many games you would have lost? Because they play out, you know, 160 games, you're plus the postseason, right? Yeah, yeah.

And then yeah, you go into college and high school and before that, like you really do have to, I almost feel like one of the best skills you can develop when you're long, when you're young, is that to be comfortable with losing, but to be able to survive losing? So that you making me think of a story. The year after LeBron left Miami and we were, you know, rebuilding, figuring this thing out. We had one of my rookies, his name was Sebastian. They're coming off a two national championships, very decorated and successful collegiate player, very good prospect, very,

great dude, good rookie. And, you know, I think it was like December, and December can be a very funky month in the league. You're either riding higher, but you're fighting the boredom of just the mediocrity of just showing up. So we're struggling as a team. We have another loss. And as a pro, you eventually learn how to take those and say, okay, tomorrow,

this is what we've got to work on. In an 82 game schedule, you learn how to lose. And in this instance, I mean, he was shabazzles down. I mean, shoulders just down. I was like, man, what's up, man, are you okay? And we're losing. I said, look, dude, it's okay. Yes, We're losing. I said, look, dude. It's okay.

Yes, we are losing. I recognize that. But the best team in the league is going to lose almost 30 games. Every year, one of the best teams in the league, 25, you know, that's really good. So you know, one, we've got work to do. I won't say we're not that good. We have work to do. I won't say we're not that good. We have work to do. And these are the reasons, these are the things

we need to work on and not identify those. Because if you keep going too high and too low every single game and 82 games, it's not gonna work. And like I said, the good teams are going to lose 20 plus games. And we were working on being a good team. We were not a good team yet. No, and life will humble you.

So I was thinking about this with LeBron. There's a great rule in writing that your last book never writes your next book, right? You always start on page one. And here's a guy, here's a team coming off a championship last year that may get knocked out in the first round. And you're always, you know, not only is it always hard to do something new, but I think the other part that is that every time you win, it gets harder because now everyone knows what you do. And I think that's true in life as well.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think you, you can see an example with the heat this year of what they're dealing with. They're both the two teams in the finals. You have quick short turnaround while everybody's resting and watching you. And it just is what it is. And whether it's by-tissue or not, it's the right of passage to be a champion. And LeBron knows that. You know. Anthony Davis, he's finding that out. It's always like another level.

It's like, okay, winning one is pretty hard. And I remember just the commentary. You hear the commentary with some people saying, anybody can do anything once. And so I was like, oh, we got to get it again. We have to win it again. So then there's that pressure. And then that's harder than the one before we're playing a better team. That's more sharp and focused and has more veterans. Therefore, hardest, the best team I've ever seen in my life.

And I don't know what to do. Right. And we had to know what to do. Right. And we had to handle those decisions on the fly. But it's so many different facets to the game that you have to prepare for. And once you're lucky twice, you're good, right? Yeah, yeah, and then even after that, guess what, it's another season.

So then for us, we're like, okay, we got to go for the three feet. Oh, Mike and Colby and Shaq, those guys, they're another breed. Respect. I didn't understand. And then it still hurts. You know, get into the finals in 2014. You play a whole season. And then you lose.

You have to take it. You have to have the tools to be able to process it. But it still sucks. And then, you know, then the band broke up. So speaking of the band, I'm curious your thoughts on the, let's call it the big three and the new big three. What do you, what do you see similarities, differences? Are you rooting for the big three or do you,

do you think it's different than your big three? I'm just curious. Oh yeah, we're much different. They have a different dynamic. They're incredibly explosive offensive team. It's much different. We're all different players, right? They're all, you can argue that all three of them and they're excellent pastors as well, but they're all ball dominant players, right? Dewey and I we were having a conversation the other day and he said man, you know, I admire for how you handled that because Me and LeBron were both ball dominant players and you have to learn how to fit in you know, so You know, I don't know if they're in a position or they have so much talent that you can overcome

those things that I know that are there. Yeah. But it's such an interesting position. They've only played 13 games together. And it takes the whole season to be able to build that continuity, that trust, trust those relationships to be able to be one of the court you have to perform as a unit. So, you know, it's fascinating where there is definitely entertaining. I'll be watching. It seems like I would define your big three with a kind of humility and camaraderie and a system as superbly talented as all three individuals were.

It was more similar to like a Shack and Kobe Phil Jackson sort of you know. Yeah. Yeah. The culture. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The he culture was another element. Yeah. The big three in Brooklyn. I don't want to say I'm rooting against, but there's part of me that doesn't want it to succeed because I feel like it'll send the wrong message to a generation of players. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you know what?

And it's a different generation. I'm a child of this generation, the AAU generation to where, and we could meet LeBron and DeWane through our decisions. We kind of did some revolutionary things. And so, not that we allow people, but it's like, oh wow, you can do that. Oh, I didn't know that.

So that creates another dynamic. And then when you mix that with, you know, kids coming up through the system that have been pretty much watched since they were 12 years old and they've been fed product and all of these things, which, you know, when, you know,

you're growing up, you don't have any shoes. Right. Nike's Ardo, my goodness, and I'm growing up, you don't have any shoes. Right. Nike's Ardot, I always send them shoes. That's awesome. You know, they start cultivating their stuff way back then. So in the AAU generation, there was always swapping teams. I mean, I was always, I tried to stay pretty low, but even me on swap teams a few times. And it was just a different dynamic in attitudes. So, we're dealing with that on top of the business of basketball and, and a pursuit

of championships. That's what, as the gang now, and, you know, people are trying to put the strongest product together a year by year to try to get it done. Got a quick message from one of our sponsors here, and then we'll get right back to the show. Stay tuned. Ah, the Bahamas. What if you could live in a penthouse above the crystal clear ocean working during the

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All right, let's do our first, our first audience question we have one here from Samuel in New Jersey. I think this is a good one. He's saying, were there days in your career that you woke up to practice where you didn't feel like you had the right motivation? You weren't like, you know, jumping out of bed or racing out to the court. And how do you overcome those sort of like,

mad days? Because I really think what separates the winners from the losers is, do you keep going when it's not any fun? Let me tell you, I want, and I want you to understand this, that everyone's understanding this. Those are most days. Those were most days, man. Just, you know, being sore and just, you know, being sore and just getting in at 3 a.m. And now you got to be at the back of the gym at 11. And then I got a lift today and I have to get in the cold tub. Oh my God.

And I have to get this treatment like, nah, I would rather be on the beach. I'm in Miami. I want to go to the beach with my wife. And I want to have just the biggest burger you've ever seen. That would be so fun. But, you know, it's just not the reality. I was on a pursuit for a championship, a pursuit for greatness. And you know, on those days, I would always think,

like, yo, who's not getting up right now? Yeah. It was never really a question with me. Yeah, of course, I wanted to just kick back and chill, maybe even just for an hour, but I gotta get up. I have to get up because I said this season, I made this pack with myself and I'm sticking to it. I said I would be at the gym an hour and a half

before practice, so that means I could get my weights done. And I'm loose. I'm gonna get up a few shots, work on my game a little bit before we start practice. I'm loose, let's go. Those were the commitments I made to myself. So on those hard days, it's like, you know, it's just hard. But you gotta go forward.

You gotta put one foot in front of another, and you gotta get in the gym. That was my attitude. There's a great viral video of Kobe where he's saying, like, when you feel that voice inside your head, it's like, hey, maybe I'll only do two miles instead of three. Maybe he's like, hey, maybe I'll only do two miles instead of three. Maybe he's like, you got to tell yourself the negotiations already been been been made. Like it's over. This was already decided. It's not up for discussion whether you're going to

practice or not today. Yeah, I'm just, let me, let me do this thing right quick. I said, come on, because you've been working really hard. No, no, no. You said that you were going to do this. And that's where the real discipline comes in. That's where I think the greatness is really defined. Because we're all going to go through those emotions, right? We're going to feel that. You're human.

What separates you from everyone else. And I try to remember that anytime. I remember one time, I was like, I was so tired from practice. I couldn't move. I was sore, I woke up, I said, yo, it's no, it's in the Miami day. It's no way I'm practicing today.

And I told my wife, I said, I'm not going to the gym. I was just like, I was kind of over it. And she said, we're supposed to much championship this year. Ah. Yeah, we are. And I got up and that was a great practice

that we had, a phenomenal practice. And even though I thought I couldn't move, I got the body going, got loose. Boom, we had a great practice. And you know, we were able to continue our quest. So Logan in Virginia is asking about dealing with pressure. How do you deal with whether it's a big game or whether it's a big meeting or it's any sort of public life happens in public.

How do you deal with high stakes situations? Do you just get used to it or do you have any specific strategies that you would think about? I mean, you just, you get used to it. You have to, it's good to acknowledge what's at stake. It's good to know that. But I always have faith in my preparation. If you're prepared, you have no choice but

to rise to the occasion, because that moment of truth is going to come. And you just have to be ready for it. You have to seek it, actually. You have to want it, because it's going to come. And you might only get one shot at it, but that's not the point. Just playing those visualizing those moments over and over in your mind. If you're on a football team, how you're going to catch the ball. See yourself catching the ball first and doing your mechanics, work on them

in the real actual physical world. And be realistic with yourself. I have worked on this hard. I'm ready. I'm confident because of my work. You'll be ready for any moment that was thrown at you and approach and approach that moment with confidence. That's what I always did. You know, people would ask me, well, how do you hit the big shot? Well, I'd be surprised if I missed it. That's my attitude. Well, you're not, you know, you're going to hit that shot because even on the days that you didn't want to go to practice, you went to practice and you hit that shot over and over and over again. It has been a form of my repetition. Yeah, this is not the first time I'm doing

it. This is not the first time I'm visualizing it. This is pretty much another rep on the board. And I live with the, with the con, you know, with what happens with the consequences, you know, it's, it's just all a part of the sport, or the business, and just understanding that and just going after for what you want to go after. So let me ask you about that confidence, because that something I both in awe of and try to think about in my own life. You know, let's say the game is on the line. You know, you're part of the big three. So there's at least two other guys who can hit that shot. Right. There's, I think there's a part of us are lesser nature that wants to go like, let's let LeBron take this. Let's let the way take this. Then there's the ego part of us, it's like, I

should get it. How do you, like, how do you sort of confidently want to take it on your shoulders and be like, I want the success or failure of this game, I want it in my lap, and I want to own the consequences, if I miss it. How do you get to a place where you call for the ball in that moment? It has to be a process of the team. If you have never called for the ball, it has to be a repetition of the team.

You stating this story made me think of something. We play one game, one day against Denver. It was a Sunday afternoon, Saturday afternoon. I had 40 points. And this was in the back to back year, so we had Ray Allen. And it was like, I think a tie game, or we were down to some sort of situation like that last shot situation. I've got 40 points. I assumed a little bit, you know, that I would get the ball, spoke drew up something different.

Had LeBron, he drew up a play, cross-screen to a high-screen in-room, have LeBron attacking, you know, going down here to the rim. I'm like, a lot. I got kind of tight just a little bit like, oh, man. But it's like, okay, let's run the play. Not only did we tie the game, but we went ahead because Ray hit a three and one. So if I would have, you know, I, that was an early lesson for me. It's because if I would have been like, no, no, no, I need to go and misinterpret it that, you know,

you still have to let the coach coach. Sure. You know, and if you have never, if your team does not practice, if you don't practice those situations of you being in that situation to make that decision, then, you know, you're being unrealistic. You have to, it has to be a part of the team repetition. Right, it's like sometimes the confidence is, no, no, no, I'll take the heat, give me the ball,

I'll put the team on my back and take this shot, but sometimes the confidence is, I'll let somebody else take it. There's the famous Scotty Pippin moment where he struggles to let somebody else, he struggled with the exact scenario you were in and maybe that's a confidence issue as well, to be able to be like, I'm good. I'll let somebody else take it as long as we win.

Yeah, I mean, it's tough to deal with. And I mean, and referring to Scotty in that story, I mean, the crazy part was that Tony Cooco chishtosh shot. And then now it looks really bad. So the crap shoot, you snake eyes. You know, and it's a tough thing to get over because we want to be the hero. We want to get that last shot. We want to do that. But when I got to Miami and I understood our role, I understood like, hey, that's not to say, I won't hit last second shots because I hit plenty of them. It's just my role to have my hands ready.

Get this guy to ball, get him open. And if he comes downhill, I know I have trust and faith that we've done this before. He will pass it to me and I will knock it down because he knows I'll knock it down. I'm gonna, I've practiced this over and over. This is a realistic situation that we've seen over and over.

So we're prepared. So Logan, in very far away El Paso, Texas, you and I are both talking from Austin, but he's asking, when did you feel like you made it? Or is that a myth? Like, do you do it? I know as a writer, you never really feel like you made it. You always feel like you're almost there

or somebody's right above you. Is it different in the NBA where it's like, once you're in the league, you're almost there or somebody's right above you. Is it different in the NBA where it's like, once you're in the league, you're in the league or is there always an insecurity there like that you never have quite arrived? Oh, yeah, there's that insecurity. You know, it's an insecurity when you're 19 and you're guarding Rashid Wallace in the post and there's nothing you can do. and you're guarding Rishi Wallace in the post and there's nothing you can do. You know, it's like he's the biggest strongest man

I've ever seen and we're sitting there playing basketball. And they're picking on me. They know it. My coach, I'm playing 35 minutes a game, 82 games. I'll be, oh my gosh. There was always that next level for me. I never, I never felt like I made it. There was always that next level for me. I never I never felt like I made it because there was always work to be done. I was say the

closest feeling to that was knowing that I had potential to make the NBA and it was from that conversation with Coach Hill who he was asking me what do I want to do with these things and it was another instance when I was at the ACVC B camp. And I, you know, it was an all-American camp back in the day, sponsored by Adidas, big huge camp, all the top talent is there. That's where I met LeBron and Carmelo. Best players in the nation are there.

And I wasn't really even thinking about anything but playing and I ended up getting like fifth. They ranked all the players and I got like fifth and I was like, okay, cool. I can do this. That would be like the closest feeling, but you never really feel like you make it. Yeah. I mean, that's like, that's a concept like retiring, right? What is making it?

No, it's tough, right? Because on the one hand, sometimes it can be really reassuring that like people who know their, who know their stuff, they're like, this kid's good, he's got it. Like I, I felt that early in my career, you know, I didn't really know any writers, my parents weren't writers. I didn't have any sense that it was like preordained that I'd be able to do this. So when other talented

people were starting to say like, you got something here, that was really reassuring. But for everyone of us that there is, there's also the person that everyone doubted that everyone said was too small, too slow. You can't just trust what other people think because sometimes they're wrong. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. That's why you don't like finding your why. You have to find that why and be like, no, I'd be doing this anyway.

I'd be doing it for free. Yeah. So this is a part of my practice. This is what I would be doing anyway. And I'm not gonna stop. I'm gonna continue to get better. And it's not about the end result because that's the magic trick, right? When I want an NBA championship, it was

like, oh, we got to win another one. You win another one. Oh, you got to win another one. We lose. Then it's like, oh, free agency. Boom, fresh new team. New year revamp it. And it's like, wow, this is crazy. It continues to go. It's just you have to, you know, you have to be more of a student of what you want to do and what you want to put your time into it and understand like you don't have to see. It's about the joy and the happiness that you get out of it as opposed to trying to get results all the time. Yeah. Marco Morris from Atlanta has a question similar to something I heard when I interviewed Martellis Bennett a few years ago.

He was saying that he wishes that there were all sorts of scouts who saw, hey, you're big, you're strong, we want you to play football. And they put him through the system and he ends up, you know, an NFL Super Bowl champion. But he's like, I wish there'd also been that system that was like, hey, you're good at drawing. I'm going to make you the best illustrator in the world. So how do you think about education, sort of developing other skills versus just, you know, a young athlete specializing in becoming a better athlete? athlete specializing in becoming a better athlete. That's a tough one. And it does require balance. And I can't,

I put a tremendous amount of hours into basketball, right? So I can't tell someone not to put a lot of time into something. But with that said, like I was telling you earlier, I was in the robotics club. Like, you know, my first job was at Blockbuster. I was always watching movies, you know, and for those who know what Blockbuster was back in the day, it was everything. I had the best job in the world, you know, and I was watching movies and, you know, I always loved writing stuff and, you just just just creating things and

that was one of one of the things I really just I just enjoyed I don't know why I did them but you know I understood how a lack of resources can really hold a potential young prodigy back yeah you know that was like such an interesting experience for me. And, you know, I was telling that story about the Robotics Club. I remember like we went to, we went to a competition. And we put together this little karate machine. It's only so much. We're like a little small team at the hood. It's like a couple guys helping us out, volunteering, we put together this machine, we barely get it together.

And there's like this private middle school that's just kicking our butt. I mean, they have this incredible machine and it's like, well, man, what are we supposed to do? We do not have the resources and all those things. So I just say that to say that, man, access to education, those things are man, that's everything. I think that's one of the most important things

in our society right now, because I'm a product of that. And like I said before, I'm lucky that I had basketball. What about that kid that just has a knack for sewing and could just be the next fashion designer? But you know, doesn't have anything around to even they don't even know it. But I think it's dormant in them. I think it's worth saying though that all the attributes that we know make someone a successful athlete

besides genetics right? You know, dedication, commitment, practice, seeking out mentors, you know, putting ego aside, following what gets you excited. Those are skills, those are attributes that if applied to sewing, to illustration, to business, to marketing, you know, whatever that will get you somewhere. It might not get you to the NBA or the NBA equivalent level because hey, there isn't a sewing NBA, but there is a way to be great at whatever you're doing and it requires the same sort of attributes

that you talk about in the book. You've got to treat yourself like an athlete, even if you're not pursuing athletics. Absolutely. And you know, you saying that made me think of, I've known some players in my career to have an opportunity to go over overseas and play and they turn it down.

Because it's not the NBA. Because they go, right, their ego and their pride was so hurt that they just said, well, I'm not gonna play. If I can't play in the NBA, then it's just not worth my time. And that's not enough money. You're getting paid, the most money you'll ever make really to play basketball, to do.

Right thing, you love, you really to play basketball to do. Right thing you love. You're missing out on an experience. And I've seen so many other players capitalize so many other men and women to have these great stories and and make families. I have a, you know, buddies in Israel, buddy, they just moved to Germany. He found a woman of his dreams and he didn't come back. You know how crazy is that? They, you know, on these potential experiences that, you know, that were missed out on. So in that equivalent, you know, I just, I just recognize that

in other mediums, right? And I understand that, you know, you may have the big dream and you shoot for it. But that, if you don't get it, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a waste and it's just something that you shouldn't have done. You know, you can still live out your dream because you're doing what you love and that I think is the dream. Got a quick message from one of our sponsors here and then we'll get right back to the show, stay tuned.

a quick message from one of our sponsors here and then we'll get right back to the show, stay tuned. Yeah, I think you talk about in duty, EB, briefly in the book. That was one of those guys that was super talented and you played against him young, but he didn't wanna go overseas at first or he didn't wanna go in, I think, I think she was really,

but then ended up having to go overseas. But there's nothing wrong with developing, with needing, like, you happen to be a one and done player, but if you needed two more years in college, like, you needed two more years in college, it's not good or bad, it just is what you specifically need to develop. Yeah, nah, it's interesting you bring him up.

Yeah, I mean, he was one of those players, amazing talent coming out of high school. And even in that decision, sometimes you can rush it. I mean, did he rush it or not? I mean, he's still got drafted. He's still had the opportunity. But yeah, I mean, if you're in a position where you have to develop, I mean, it is what it is.

I have had other friends to turn down opportunities to a division one college because they said they didn't want to register. So my red shirt, they just don't even go to college. That doesn't mean any sense, you know, and you know, everybody's work is different. Everybody's path is different. We just have to accept our path. And there's no avoid, you can't cheat the game. That's, that's like one of my favorite sayance, you can't cheat the game. That's like one of my favorite sayings, you can't cheat the game.

You can't cheat yourself with it. You can, oh, every day. You can cheat yourself every day and then believe that, oh, I'm good. The game is gonna be like, nah. You're not good, bro. And it's just gonna play you know, it's gonna play it itself out. You can't eat yourself, but yeah, you definitely can't cheat again.

Um, someone was asking about mentor figures in your life that you weren't related to. Is there anyone that stands out to you as someone who really, uh, really taught you? Um, off the top of my head, uh, Michael Curry, uh, Derek Martin and Sam Mitchell, um, Michael Curry. A lot of people probably don't know who he is, but he played in the NBA for some years, uh, a lot of years with Detroit. And, you know, in putting to the team together, he was like the veteran leader. And he pretty much took me under his wing, I'm right about it in the book actually. And he took me under his wing, and I mean, we worked, he worked me, he challenged me every day, he wouldn't allow me to do certain

things like even like putting a towel on my head during the game and get that towel off your head man, why is the game? Come on. You know, hey, we've got shoot around, let's get there hour early, let's get up shots. And then I started seeing success right away. And you know, he taught me how to work in the league. Derrick Martin, he eventually came to the team and you know, in my latter years, I guess you could say my prime years in Toronto. And he was, you know, he my latter years, I guess you could say my prime years in Toronto. And he was, you know, he was like that figure to keep it real with me. And he always inspired me to push myself to do better and perform in the game

and have that attitude of performing 82 attempting to perform 82 games a year. And, you know, he was an ultimate team guy. He was the guy putting the dinners together. He showed me how powerful a team could be, a team full of friends. You know, he showed me how, you know, to go to restaurants, talk nice. He was definitely one of those best that did that for me

when I was a young fella and saying Mitchell. He was my coach in Toronto, my second coach and I think, you know, my longest teenage coach, I think five years, we were together. But he had coached my idol, KG Kevin Garnett. He was his veteran in Minnesota and now he was a head coach. So, you know, we had so many conversations. I was like the little kid just tugging at the show.

What was KG like? What was KG like? Well, what did KG do, you know? And yeah, he helped me tremendously just by the same thing, doing the same thing, holding me accountable, pushing me, saying, no, you're a leader, you need to do this. And you're not too young, you're not too skinny, you're not too inexperienced, you need to do it now,

you need to leave this team, you push me to do those things. And I remember those lessons to this day. So yeah, those are the three that I think of. League-wise, you know. Speaking of Toronto, someone's asking, do you, given the arc of your career, do you identify more as a raptor or as a member of the heat? Like when you think about Chris Bosch as an NBA player,

what jersey do you have on? And that's a tough question. I wouldn't want to just separate. I can't say, you can't separate it. It's just what you're here. What you want to go to, pick a year. I'll tell you, you can't separate it, you know, is just what year. Which year you want to go to, you know, pick a year, I gotta, I'll tell you, it's Jersey, I'm wearing it, you know, is, I identify with both, you know, they're both a part of the journey, I was there for equal amount of years.

You know, so I always saw both as a home, you know, the fans treated me incredibly well. I had tremendous times in both places. Of course, you know, not the championship aspirations, but just in Toronto, but just the love from the city and being a young man, trying to figure it out. And, you know, the city backing you. And you know there's something special here. And you want everybody else to know, but they just don't get it. If they can only see what you see, that's pretty much what that was back then.

And then, you know, the Miami years, of course, that's like the blockbuster. That's the beetle. That's the heaters on tour. You know, how can you not love that? Yeah. Jennifer Allen is asking, as she's saying, her son is 12, she loves basketball.

He wants to know what it's like to be a star player. Like, what is it like to be the guy on a team? Is it something you feel or is it you're just so in it that it's not something you think about? Nah, it's difficult. It's unfair. It's uncomfortable. There is most people see the glory in the leader when the times are good. No, the leader has to perform in times of heart. Usually the leader is the first person the coach looks at if the team is lagging.

Hey, you know, and give them that look. A lot of responsibility. For her that look. It's a lot of responsibility. So, you know, you have to be used to work. You have to want to love what you're doing so much that you'll put that work in. And you won't mind if the coach tells you to do something for, you know, to

make the team better. I think that's important to take. And, you know, yeah, there will be fun moments, but you only get fun moments if you put the work in. It's a reason why you feel so happy, right? It's a reason, you know, we said, it's said in the book, is a reason why you feel so happy, right? It's a reason we said it's said in the book, is a reason why people are so happy when that thing happens. It's like, ah, because you did not think that would happen. You know, you have to work for that feeling. It just doesn't happen. You have to put everything into it and believe and believe and get knocked down and get back up again and get knocked down however long it takes and then You know, that's why you see people being so happy when they accomplish these things and scores

So how do you balance being really driven and dedicated and all in on a pursuit like basketball or whatever it is for a given person and Have a healthy, happy, personal life. I think that question is a little more difficult to answer for student athletes. Sure. Right? Because you have to, you know, there's only, you know, it's 24 hours in the day because you got to study. You got to put some stuff on hold. Oh my gosh, something is going to be on hold, right? Yeah. You got to practice, which is another 100 hours of whenever. When you're in a profession, I was lucky to be a professional

early. I was able to separate it very easily. I think for the student athlete, it's a little bit more of a challenge. I think you have to really decide what you want. What do you want? And that's not to say that you can't go to any dances, but you don't have to go to everyone.

Like, I remember even in my senior year, I went to my homecoming dance and everybody was like, oh, Chris is out. You know? Yeah, it's like, yes, my senior year, I want to experience things I want to have fun. I'm not saying don't hang out with your friends or don't do these things.

It's just, you have to, like I said, you have to decide what you want to do. So you have to make time. And sometimes you're just going to have to say, yeah, I can't do it. I'm going to the gym. Yeah, I was talking to it. I was talking to a young kid recently. He was like, you know, I'm feeling like feeling like I don't have a good work, you know,

life balance right now. And I was like, you're 21, get used to it. Like, talk to me in 10 years, if you still don't have a good personal life balance, it's gonna be a problem, but like, there is a beauty of where to do a thing at the highest level in the world, it requires a certain level of unbalancedness.

Yeah, for sure, and it's like, bro, you're 21. Where? Yeah. That's that's the hit. Good. Yeah. Good. Wonderful. Wonderful. You're doing a good job. Hey, that's the first, that's the first test. Good job. Yeah. Right. You're so man and frustrated, you brought it up. That's what I'm talking about. All right.

But the irony is it's like you have to be unbalanced early, but then as you get older, and I've been lucky enough to meet your wife, is that you need that balance, whatever kind of relationship it is, whatever your lifestyle is. But if you're doing this by yourself, for yourself, with nobody to even you out, or say like, hey, Chris, what the hell? You know, you'll spin off the planet. Yeah, absolutely. And you have to have that a lot of time for work. That's, you know, when you're done, you're done. Yeah. You go and you be present doing something else. And that was, that has been a huge exercise for me, especially in this pandemic situation that

we've been in. You know, I have five children. You know, it's only so much space in the house. We had to learn how to coexist. We had to learn how to give each other space. We had to learn how to spend time and have these allotted moments to say, okay, you know, I'll be doing something I want to do some bad. Yo, come on, let's go.

I know it's movie night. All right, come on, let's go. Right then there, let's go. Or if my son or daughter, they want to show me something and I'm writing and trying to figure this thing out. And it's right at that moment where I'm just going of this. Hit my head on the computer, you know, and what do we do usually do we'll dig in deeper, right? We'll say, no, I got to put in more hours, you know? My kids, my wife, hey, I want to go one day day. I'm, uh, here's the, here's the

restaurant we're going to bag. Like, okay, all right, cool. I'm working on training myself to be like okay And accept those situations because it will make them happy. It will make me happy I need to get out of here because it is not working today obviously and so and I put the work in today. I put in my hours Let me go decompress or get my do something else or go into my hobbies, but you can't just, you know, keep banging your head against the wall, you know, it's continuously thinking something's going to come out.

You do have to figure out that balance. Yeah, I think that's right. Well, as we wrap up, I had one last question for you. So, and I think about this, when I think about a younger version of myself, if you were to talk to Chris, maybe just starting college, just starting in the NBA, some earlier version of yourself, you could tell him one thing,

other than read this book. Like what's the big thing, what's the big lesson, the one lesson from the book, from your experience that you would want to tell a younger version of yourself as an athlete. I would just say, I would keep it simple. I would say keep going and never stop. You know, keep going and never stop.

That young person knows what they want to do. They like not to say what's behind the right, what's in the rabbit hole, but he knows he wants to go down that rabbit hole And I cannot change the story right the story is the story It's it's the good the bad and everything in between but it ends up being good, you know, because I'm writing the story And you know it is it you can't sugarcoat those life, those real life situations. However they come, there's no way around that.

But if that person continues to work and they don't stop, like I know I did not, you can become a champion. And you can become a wonderful father and aspiring writer. And all these new things, you can become a wonderful father and, you know, aspiring writer. And all these new things, you don't even know that could be possible for yourself. If you just keep going and I implore everyone watching us to do that same thing, you know, keep going. I saw you and never stopped.

I saw you sign a book to a kid on last Tuesday and you just said, do the work, which is, you know, I think the same thing, you got to put in the work and it'll happen or it won't, but you got to do the work either way. Absolutely, absolutely. Live it, man. Well, dude, it was amazing to talk again. The book is fantastic. Everyone should get their signed copies in roughly eight to ten business days. Telefriend letters to a young athlete, give copies away. Graduation is here. I think this book makes a great graduation present. Chris, it's an honor. Hope to see you in person again soon.

Absolutely. Thanks, man. Good to see you, bro. Yeah. Thanks for listening. We just crossed more than 50 million downloads with the Daily Stoke podcast. Thanks to you. Please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Please share it with your friends. Send an episode you liked. If you liked today's episode, send it to someone you know.

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