The Daily Stoic - Coach Buzz Williams’ Playbook for Mentorship and Motivation

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

As the Head Coach of Texas A&M Men’s Basketball team, Coach Buzz Williams is dedicated to setting his players up for success not only on the court, but with values that they will carry for the rest of their lives. During the off-season, Coach Buzz was able to come down to the Daily Stoic studio and share with Ryan what he’s learned about not just being a great coach, but also a great person, throughout his life and 30+ season coaching career. Buzz talks about how basketball legend George Raveling continues to be his mentor, the responsibility he feels as a coach, building trust with his players, the difference between discipline and justice, and more. Follow Buzz Williams on Instagram: @TeamCoachBuzz and on X: @TeamCoachBuzz📚 Want to learn more about the difference between discipline and justice? Check these out:Discipline is Destiny by Ryan Holiday Right Thing, Right Now by Ryan Holiday ✉️ Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Get Stoic inspired books, medallions, and prints to remember these lessons at the Daily Stoic Store: https://store.dailystoic.com/📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, and FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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And as an Audible member, you choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog. By the way, you can grab Right Thing right Now on Audible. You can sign up right now for a free 30-day audible trial and try your first audiobook for free. You'll get Right Thing Right Now totally for free. Visit audible.ca to sign up. I'm Mike Bubbins. I'm Ellis James. And I'm Steph Guerrero. And we're convinced that our podcast, The Socially Distanced Sports Bar, is going to be your new favourite comedy podcast with just a little bit of sport thrown in. You don't have to love sport, like sport or even know anything about sport to listen. Because nobody has conversations which stay on topic and it's the same on our podcast.

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The Socially Distant Sports Bar, it's not about asymmetrical overloads. James, podcasting from his study, and you have to say that's magnificent. Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, a short passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well known and obscure, fascinating and powerful. With them we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are and also to find peace and wisdom in their actual lives.

But first we've got a quick message from one of our sponsors. Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic podcast. I was out for a walk with my kids this morning and I thought of Buzz Williams, the basketball coach. And I thought of Buzz Williams because I was throwing on a weight vest. I have this weight vest that I wear every morning. And I think of Buzz every time I put it on

because he's the one that pointed me to this one. I saw him post a picture on Instagram of him with his kids wearing one. And I thought, oh, that's a great idea. It'll make the family time, we get a little double benefit of it. The nice stroll we take out here on my ranch can add a little double benefit of it. The nice stroll we take out here on my ranch can add a little workout component to it.

I've known Buzz for a long time. In fact, a couple of years ago, my assistant looked at this magnet on the fridge and she goes, oh, is that a picture of you and your dad? And I go, that's not my dad. That's Buzz Williams, the basketball coach. She's like, what? And it's funny, I've known Buzz Williams now for many years.

I met him through the great George Raveling. He's someone I'll talk about in today's episode. But Buzz read a couple of my books. We got connected. I came out and talked to the men's basketball team when he was the head coach at Virginia Tech. And he sent me this nice little magnet picture of the two of us together that sits on my fridge.

It's just a very sweet thing. I think it came straight out of the mail. I put it on there. And now it's at the fridge in the back of the painted porch along with another magnet that he sent me. Buzz is an excellent collector of quotes and aphorisms and maxims. Another one where she both believe in this idea

that all success is a lagging indicator. That's also on the fridge downstairs at the painted porch. Another funny buzz story when I was there visiting with him at Virginia Tech, he was like, here, come over to my house. And we talked about how close his house was in the episode, but anyways, he says, come over to my house. I didn't have kids at this point.

And we're walking through, his family's there, his wife's there, and she's in the middle of pouring out some goldfish crackers for her kids. And I go, oh my God, I haven't had goldfish in like 15 years, can I have some? And she was like, of course, she made me a little cup of goldfish. And she said, your wife's pregnant, right?

And I said, yeah. And she said, oh, all right, you're gonna have your fill of goldfish very soon. Which is very true. I have eaten too many pounds of goldfish over the years. Buzz is an awesome guy. He practices what he preaches. He's also a huge reader, a very avid note taker. He's been a wonderful supporter of me in my books.

A couple of years ago, Jimmy Butler, now with the heat, talked about reading Ego is the enemy or something. And I was like, there's no way Buzz is not responsible for that. And it turns out he was. And since it's the off season, Buzz was able to drive over from Texas A&M, which is shockingly close to Bastrop. And we talked about George Raveling, the greatest. And we talked about how he deals with the power and responsibility of being a coach, how the job of leader is to anticipate problems and have a plan, the difference between justice and discipline, and a lot more. Stay tuned for part two of this episode.

You can find Buzz on Instagram and Twitter, at Team Coach Buzz. I think I really kind of like this interview. We sort of designed our life to like minimize time in the car, everything central, everything's simple. And then my son started this new school, which is like blown. It's very important that he goes there. But it's sort of blown our lives apart. But I remember I visited you when you were,

that you were at Virginia Tech then, and you were like, I told the real estate agent when we were looking for a house, that it had to be less than 11 minutes from the facility. And you were like, and I drive slow. Yes. And I thought, that's so smart because people, you wanna get the nicest house for the best price,

but you're not thinking about the inefficiencies or the cost of your whole day, week life pivoting around this inconvenience you've built into your existence. So where you and I took the picture, I lived eight minutes from there. Yeah. Whoever you met that day that was employed at Virginia Tech, they lived in the valley. Gorgeous. Yeah. The country club. Not what you and I think a country

club. That version of country club. And the lady, the real estate agent, I'm like I'm not living down there. She's like coach. Football coach, the real estate agent, I'm like, I'm not living down there. And she's like, coach, football coach, AD, yeah, I'm not living there. She's like, why? It's right there. And I'm like, no, that's an hour a day. Oh no, it's 22 minutes.

And I'm like, no, it's 22 minutes if nothing goes wrong. Something's gonna go wrong every day. I can't commit an hour. You think you understand my job, you don't, but I don't have an hour a day. Whether I'm trying to be good at my job or not, I don't wanna be in the car an hour a day. That's gonna prevent three days a week,

my wife stopping by. It's gonna prevent two times a week, my wife stopping by. It's gonna prevent two times a week that she brings the kids by for 20 minutes. No, not doing it. Well, it's funny too, because when people think of the commute, they don't go, okay, this is gonna cost an hour a day, it's gonna cost two hours a day of work.

It never eats into the work time. It's the leaving early from home, the people you say that you're doing this all for that are most important. That's who we put on the chopping block first. That's exactly right. We're eliminating time from them. We're not eliminating time from work.

And I think that obviously I've evolved or tried to evolve in a positive way. I actually, on this topic, I mentioned to our strength coach yesterday when I positive way. I actually, on this topic, I mentioned to our strength coach yesterday when I was training, I said, I don't know if I'll ever take another job, but if I take another job, I'm walking to work. And if I can't walk to work, not taking the job. And obviously, I'm older than him. And he said, Coach, you walk enough. And I go, no, it's the principle of I'm closer to being an empty nester than I am raising a family.

And there's going to be an adjustment involved with that that I'm not aware of. So I want the caveat to be, if I take another job, my wife can walk to work or I can walk home. Yeah. And I think that that decision would impact hundreds of decisions. Yeah. As opposed to the other way around. Yeah. Yeah. People tend to think about opportunities in terms of like, hey, is this best for me? Does it move my career forward? Does it make me more money, et cetera?

They don't often back out like, hey, what are my values? What's important to me? And what do I want my life to look like day to day? We have this, we'll do all this stuff that we don't like. So in the distant future, when we retire or when we make a certain amount of money or we have power or success, then we'll be able to do more of that.

But we don't really think about like, hey, what do I want my day to day life to look like, which is what we'd sort of optimized for here living in a small town, living in Texas, as opposed to New York or LA. The only way I'm justifying this thing to myself is like, one, like you do whatever you need to do for your kids. And then two, an hour of the commute, we're together, right? It's not like, hey, we live over here and I drive into Manhattan to work all day. It's I'm driving, I'm spending the time with them. There actually is something,

and I've heard from parents who have older kids, they're like, actually like when you're strapped in the car together, it's some of the only quality time you get because like you're strapped in the car together. It's some of the only quality time you get because like you're forced to spend time together and stuff happens, but it's an adjustment period. I very much optimize for routine and life and ease. And then, you know, life has other plans.

How old are your boys now? The one that we're doing the commute for is seven, turn in eight, but it is what it is. Speaking of coaching, did I tell you I'm working on a book for Coach Rav? I talk to him every third day. And for sure within that, I'm either talking to him before your Friday morning talk,

or shortly thereafter. You know how I feel about Coach, and you're extending his life. He's the best man. It's unbelievable. I'm so thankful for the friend that you are to him. I do not have the vocabulary that either of you guys do. But if I recorded only the portions where he talked about you, you have no idea the impact you're having on his heart. Like, no idea.

He turns 87 years old tomorrow. And if you talk to him, not you, because I have a vibe for what's going on. But when I talk to him, specific to you, specific to the project, he's 47 years old. It's unbelievable. This dude's life is unreal. Like he is, first off, I was speaking of driving,

so I was thinking about this with him. So when he was born, the average life expectancy for a black man was like 47. And you know what happened when he was driving to work at USC when he was like 50 years old? He got in a car accident and very nearly died. And so he's really lived like several lives, but he's effectively doubled it.

And the second half of his life may be more interesting than the first half. And the first half involved the, I have a dream speech and Wilt Chamberlain and Harry Truman and breaking all these barriers. It's unreal. Yeah. And sometimes we talk about this. I'm like coach.

I know of you as a coach. Yeah, but I never met you until you weren't a coach and I stopped him to meeting. Yeah, and I tell him all the time. I'm like, even on the documentary when all that started, and I don't know what you know about it or don't know about it.

I've read some of the interviews, insane. Is that right? Yeah. You just have Phil Knight going like, there wouldn't be a Nike as it is today without this guy. And you're just like, and nobody knows who he is. I know. And we argued for three years today without this guy and you're just like, and nobody knows who he is. I know. And you know, we argued for three years about writing a book,

yeah, about doing something like this. Like coach, that's selfish to not do it. Yeah. It's selfish. Yeah. That's wrong, man. Yeah. He would get very offended with me. Yeah. And he has talked to me. I don't, in ways that I don't think he talks to most people. And vice versa. Coach, that's wrong. Like there are other Georges on earth now that don't know the George. And you're doing them a disservice by not telling them the story of the original George.

Right. Right. Not the color of their skin. Yeah. Not where they're from. Not that they can play, don't play, can coach, don't coach. No, no, no. You're negatively impacting them because you're not giving context to your life. Yeah. And that's selfish. It's really interesting.

Oh, he would cuss me out. He would cuss me. And he doesn't cuss like that. Why did you seek him out? Tell me that story. I stopped him. Like literally, I stopped him. So he was speaking at an event.

I found out he was speaking at the event. I called the guy that was running the event and I said, is there any way that you could let me be the MC of the event? Not telling him why. I ended up being the first speaker at the event. Where were you coaching at this point? I was an assistant at Colorado state 13 hours later, coach Rav is the keynote speaker. Yeah. I'm speaking at whatever, nine o'clock in the morning. He's speaking at seven o'clock at night. There's 12 people there

at nine o'clock in the morning. Yeah. I stay there the entire day to listen to him. He finishes speaking. I introduce myself and I said to him, hey coach, do you happen to know where you're staying? He said, are you the kid that spoke earlier today? And I go, yes sir. He goes, I'm going to have dinner. And I said, oh, okay, well I'm not trying to bother you. I was just wondering where you were staying. Long story short, I go to dinner with him.

I get in the car with him. My car is in the parking lot. I get in the car with him, go to dinner. The driver carries him to the hotel. I carry his bags to check in. I'm carrying his bags to the elevator. I hand him his bags and I go, Coach, I really appreciate dinner and it's so bags to the elevator. I hand him his bags and I go, Coach, I really appreciate dinner.

And it's so nice to meet you. And he goes, where are you going? And I go, I'm not sure, coach. Don't worry about anything. Really appreciate your time. I stayed in the lobby of the hotel until he. Woke up the next morning to check out, and I was sitting right there and I stood up, I go, good morning coach.

How you doing? And he just kind of whacked out. What are you doing? Yeah. Who are you? Yeah. Hey coach, I just wanted to tell you one more time and really appreciate your time. And he goes, did you stay here all night?

I said, yes, sir. I stayed here all night right there. He goes, did you sleep? I said, no, sir. I just all night right there. He goes, did you sleep? I said, no sir. I just sat in that chair. He goes, where are you going? I said, well, I've got to figure out how to get back to my car. This is in 2001. Yeah. You're not getting in an Uber. Yeah. Your car. I go, yes sir, my car is in the parking lot wherever we were speaking yesterday. Yeah, I just love him.

I mean, there are a lot of coaches you could learn from. Why did you pick that one and why were you so intense about him? Well, you know- It's not like he's won a bazillion championships or he's under the radar guy. Yes. He was not a coach at that time. And he had not at that time completely become to Nike what he had, what he ended up becoming, running EYBL and all the things that he did.

Just always like you. I'm attracted to anybody regardless of industry or age or race on someone maybe that I could learn from. And not that I had any inkling of an idea what the relationship would become, but from that meeting in the fall of 2001, I mean, he's one of the most important mentors in my entire life.

I don't even know that I've ever even talked to him about basketball, to be honest. That's not, our relationship didn't begin that way. It was through basketball that we met, but how it has blossomed. He watches us, he keeps up with us, he knows what's going on, but we had a bingo card, what would be on there? Oh, compelling storytelling, egotistical white men and dubious humour. If that sounds like your cup of tea, you will love our podcast, British Scandal, the show where every week we bring you stories from this green and not always so pleasant land.

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that everybody can sing along to, but very few really know who he was. His music I grew up with, but I want to know more about what formed him and how did he manage to fit so much into such a tragically short life. Follow Legacy Now wherever you get your podcasts or binge entire seasons early and ad free on Wondery+.

Go deeper and get more to the story from Wondery's top history podcasts, including American Scandal, American History Tellers, and Black History for Real. But you know what's interesting? You guys are similar in that, I mean, he's a basketball coach, you're a basketball coach, but I don't think anyone thinks George Raveling is the best X and O's guy. I don't think they necessarily think of you as an X and O's guy, but there is something about a certain kind of coach that you both are. Maybe you sensed in him, like, this is a guy

who does what I wanna do in a way that I think I'm capable of doing, or he's the master of a certain style or genre that is the one that's for me. He made a life slash a career in multiple industry, so to say, on relationships. I think he's a connoisseur of leadership, and I think he has exquisite taste on how to develop,

consistently grow relationships regardless of era, of type. He's just so good to people. And I think, you know, like obviously over the last couple of decades, you know, I would talk to people that work for him, kids that played for him who are my age, and they never speak to the Xs and Os. Like, that never is broached in the conversation. And I think that that speaks to how impactful the relationship was, that basketball brought us together, but that's not what kept us together, if that makes sense. Apparently, when Ben Affleck went to Michael Jordan

to ask him if he could do that movie air, Jordan said, yes, but I have two conditions. One, Viola Davis has to play my mother, and two, George Raveling has to be a main character in the movie. You think about relationships, he's thinking, who's my mom, and I better give credit to this other guy too.

Amazing. It's crazy. And I mean, even that's the payoff of the relationship of why Jordan ended up at Nike was George. You know, not the hard sell, but the, hey, just give him a shot. Yes. And so he's a relationship guy.

And yeah, I mean, most of it, like it was crazy to me walking through his life as I'm working on this thing, like I kept thinking there'd be like some really big players that he coached. And there's BJ Armstrong a few, but actually most of his impact was way later. It's Novitsky and Yao Ming. It's at Nike where he wasn't actually coaching the players,

but he was like, no, this is the guy. And he sensed something in people. So it's a developer of talent and relationship in a context other than just on the court. And I think that one other thing that I've learned just from watching him, mostly from listening to him, and some from just maybe processing what he's trying to teach me.

He has an innate feel for where it's going, where a situation is going, where a sport is going, where a business is going, where a person is going. He can project out. It's been interesting. He doesn't, he's never talked down to me, but he's never talking to me about today. Everything is in the realm of, Buzz, I've been thinking about this and I was wondering, I wonder about this a decade from now.

Yeah. And I'm like, Coach, I don't even know what to say. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, you don't have to know. Just think on this for down the line. And I think if it's a player, if it's what basketball is gonna become, if it's what he's gonna become,

he's just very futuristic in having a pulse on I need to be better prepared on this. And that's been so good to me. But that's one of the benefits of age, I think, is that you just have more time. You have seen things unfold in a way that the younger people simply haven't. I remember you and I were talking, this would have been summer of 2020. So the pandemic, all the teams and the offseason had been disrupted.

And I remember you were saying something to me about the players. You were like, I'm trying to talk to them about it. And I remember what I thought, and I explained it to you, but I was really explaining it to myself. I was like, okay, so they've not been able to play for like six months or whatever. And to you and I, six months is nothing. Six months is six months.

But this is like 5% of their life. You know, it's like, it's actually a statistically significant chunk of time to them. And so when you're in your eighties, like you've had bad decades, you know what I mean? You've had quarter centuries that were rough, right? Like you can say things like, 50 years ago, we did it differently.

And so you can then apply that to the future. And obviously this is to me, the only other way you can get this. And so George is in his eighties, but he's also like a thousand years old because he's read so much history. When you've studied history, you can also get that. So like you go, hey, yeah, there's been periods

when we had like four bad presidents in a row. Hey, do you know how long it took him to cure polio? You're expanding your historical viewpoint or whatever, and then that allows you, kind of turns down the volume on what's happening in front of you right now, which is seemingly urgent and massive, but it's not. It's just because it's in front of you at this moment. And his perspective, because of those things, how he articulates it, I think is what makes

him so special. He can articulate it in the now where you can comprehend it. But it also gives it, for me, it gives my heart pause on, coach, let me write that down, say it again. Yeah. I just want to write it down. Not because it may apply today, but he's telling me today and it's giving me pause on, I need to have discernment on this for where it may go. Yeah. And I've,

I've seen how notes that I have written that are his words and his ideas from whatever, 10 years ago that I'm like, coach told me that a long time ago. And I catch myself saying that to him over the last couple of years, as our industry has changed, some of the things that he was telling me long before it ever became what it has become. Buzz, you ought to think about this. Yeah. He knew it was coming. Yeah. And he's not stating this is the exact scenario,

but it's just the totality of his message in, you know, when I'm with him, you know, he's constantly writing. And he's like, hey, now I'm going to show you this. Don't write it down. I'm just going, he's constantly writing. And he's like, hey, now I'm gonna show you this. Don't write it down. I'm just gonna give this to you. And so he's writing it so I'll listen, so I don't write. And then he just gives it to me. He'll tear it off and hand it to me and he'll go,

all right, now let's go over this. Well, I just heard him say it. I just watched him write it. All right, now Buzz, you're 51. All right, now let's look over here. Your sixth bucket of life starts in nine years. You're gonna be 60 to 70. Now let's talk about that. How long will you and Cory have been married? How old is Sissy gonna be? How old is Bubba gonna be? And he just starts, we're not talking about now. We're just thinking about

this sixth bucket of life over here. And it's amazing, like when I talked to him, how, hey coach, you remember when you said this two years ago when I flew out there to see you? All right, well, let me give it to you again. And then it kind of triggers him to go, yeah, I remember. All right, well, just riff off of it. I'm gonna be quiet and I'm just gonna start taking notes on my phone.

And he'll just start talking, you know? And I'm like, oh man, this is what a blessing to have someone that has that information, has that wisdom, has that discernment, whatever the word is, but that he's willing to share. Yeah, I've been writing about this recently. It's something I've been thinking about, like, one of the hallmarks of wisdom is the ability to understand downstream consequences. So it's like, if I do this, this will happen way down here. So if I make this shift, if I start talking like this,

if they do this, if like, so you're able to predict the future because you have so much understanding of the past. You've moved these things around enough times that you know how different things are connected. And I find that people who are not very good at what they do are sort of always being surprised by that cause and effect. And people have been around a long time. They go, hey, this is what this is going to mean down the line. So I don't think it's ironic that you would say that. So this morning on my walk, kind of do certain things when I'm on my walks.

And a portion of the time, I don't want to do anything. I just kind of want to look and think. But when I think of something, I just tap it in my phone. I think as a leader, our job is to anticipate the problem and have a plan. But so much of what I'm seeing in leadership now, they're not only not anticipating the problem or having any level of plan,

they're just reacting to the problem. Yeah, sure. And so then from that chair of leadership, you're just constantly in a reactionary state. Yeah. And I'm convicted in whatever level of leadership that I have, even just as a husband and as a father, I need to think about and be more aware and anticipatory of what could happen. Just so that if it does, hey, what about this?

could happen. Just so that if it does, hey, what about this? And I see so much of leadership, it's just completely reactive. And I'm like, yeah, there's seven things here, and you're so bent on this one. And the narrative you want to create is on this one, and we'll worry about the six later. And I'm like, it's just going to stay in a constant churn of deceival. Robert Greene calls this tactical hell, right? So the difference between strategy and tactics is tactics is like all this little piddly shit, it's reactive.

And then a strategist is like, I'm going to do this, and they're going to do that, and then I'm going to do this, and it's all working towards something, right? Most people are tactical, they're day to day, they're waking up and they're like, what do I have right now? What did someone email me right now? What happened on social media while I was sleeping?

As opposed to, they knew what their job was weeks ago for today. Like great coaches, I think. They're fluid and reactive, but they're also like, they're doing what they're doing. It almost doesn't matter what the other team is doing because they're on their track. And to that point, this is good talk. I like tactical hell.

Welcome to the Offensive Line. You guys on this podcast, we're gonna make make some picks, talk some s***, and hopefully make you some money in the process. I'm your host, Annie Agar. So here's how this show's going to work, okay? We're going to run through the weekly slate of NFL and college football matchups, breaking them down into very serious categories like no offense. No offense, Travis Kelce, but you got to step up your game if Pat Mahomes is saying the Chiefs need

to have more fun this year. We're also handing out a series of awards and making picks for the top storylines surrounding the world of football. Awards like the He May Have a Point Award for the wide receiver that's most justifiably bitter. Is it Brandon Iyuk, T. Higgins, or Devontae Adams? Plus, on Thursdays, we're doing an exclusive bonus episode on Wondery Plus, where I share

my fantasy football picks ahead of Thursday Night Football and the weekend's matchups. Your fantasy league is as good as locked in. Follow the offensive line on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can access bonus episodes and listen ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondry's podcast, American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history, events that have shaped who we are as a country and continue to define the American experience.

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including American History Tellers, Legacy, and even the Royals. I feel the older I get. Maybe it's because I'm getting older. Maybe it's because I've been doing it a while. Maybe it's because I've re-engineered what I think is important. And so I look at a figurative box score of my life in a different way on what I think is important. But the other thing is distraction. Some people view social media as a distraction. Whatever you view distraction to be, to me, that's the greatest tactic or the best tactic of failure. Because if you're constantly in a state of distraction, to me, you have no chance, you're gonna fail. And I'm seeing that, I get a year older,

but in essence, the people that I'm around every day are the same age and have been for 30 years. And I told one of our new players when we started summer school a month ago, he came in the gym for a skill workout. He doesn't know me really, and I don't really know him. And he brought his phone in the gym. I'm in the weight room.

I'm looking out the window. I'll watch his skill workout. He comes in to say good morning. I go, hey, I want to try something with you. And it'll be good for you and I to build trust. But it's kind of like an experiment. And he's like, okay, coach, I said, I don't want you to ever bring your phone in the gym again.

And he goes, oh no, coach, I was just, I go, no, no, no, I'm not upset at all. This is just me and you. I'm not gonna take my phone in there ever again. And you're not gonna take your phone in there ever again. As long as you're on this team, and as long as I'm on this team, that's just me and you. I've never said this to any player.

I'm not mad. 30 days ago, I see him yesterday, comes in to say good morning after his skill workout. And I go, hey man, where's your phone? He goes, coach, I promise it's in the locker room. And I go, thanks for trusting me. Do you think you're doing better when you're out there? And he goes, I don't know, maybe. I said, you are. Maybe the results aren't better, but there's a period of no distraction that all you're doing is that. Whether it's good or bad, you're not setting your phone down to go

to work. And as soon as your quote, work is over, you're not setting your phone down to go to work. And as soon as your quote, work is over, you're going immediately back to your phone to see what you missed. I know as soon as you get in the locker room, you're gonna do it, but that it's a distraction free zone relative to that device.

I think it might help you. But also I bet like one of the interesting things probably for you, you're getting older, the kids are staying the same age. You've seen, every person's different and unique, but at the same time, you've seen every type of person there is, right? I've seen a lot of.

And so there's probably something also where you're like, you came up with an idea, you suggested it to a player. The idea wasn't important. What's important is that after 30 days, he or she either shows you that they're the person who did the thing or not did the thing. For sure.

And you can probably tell from that singular instance, whether they're gonna succeed or fail. Because you know that, you know, that tells you, again, downstream consequences. If someone makes a commitment, they follow through, that tends to mean X. If someone makes a commitment, does it for a little bit, doesn't follow through, then lies about

it. That means something else. And you've just seen that a lot of times. And I think one of the benefits of mentors, and coaches or whatever it's like, they've seen you before at this place, they've seen all the types of person, and they can tell you what to do or not do. And you decide who you are by choosing to do it or not. So I told him at the end yesterday morning, I said, you're doing better, whether the results would say that or not. He said, you really think so? And I said, I know so.

And I said, this will come across arrogant, but I don't mean it arrogant. I'm the guy subbing you in and out. And so even if the results are the same, I trust you more because you've done exactly what I've asked you to do. And so I know if I'm not here tomorrow and you do skill, you're not bringing your phone in here. So it creates a level of trust. And he goes, yeah, coach, I guess I didn't think about that. And I said, yeah, you're thinking about playing time. So I understand. I said, but And I said, yeah, you're thinking about playing time. So I understand. I said, but here's what I'm saying. Someday you're gonna be my age and you can't play.

And I'm wondering if you can learn the discipline at your age of how you can limit your exposure to distractions. How can you limit your exposure to temptations? Because even at my age, I'm not tempted by the phone the way you are. Because I don't know how to operate the phone the way you do.

It's not as much a part of your daily functioning. I said, but I said, I still have problems with temptation. Not to cheat on my wife. The temptation for me is a distraction. And the distraction could be a lot of different things. So I'm constantly trying to figure out a way, how can I limit my exposure to any of that? And me watching you every morning when you come in here. I've already been in the weight room. So I watch you arrive and I watch you leave because I'm still training.

But that you're doing what I ask has created a level of trust because I told you something to do or asked you to do something one time. And so now I know I should never bring my phone in there because I asked you to do it and you've done exactly that and I respect that. Well, I have a story in the justice book that I was gonna put in the discipline book. Cause I think it's interesting how interrelated these things are.

So I have a story in the justice book that on one level seems like a discipline idea, but it's actually a justice thing. It's about this poet, her name is Danielle De Prima. She's at this famous party with all these famous writers, Jack Kerouac, Alan Ginsburg. It's like a cool literary party. And she gets up to leave, like it's like nine o'clock.

She gets up to leave and they go, where are you going? Like you arrived, you know? And she goes, I gotta go relieve my babysitter. I told the babysitter I'd be home by nine. And they go, babysitter? They go, if you wanna make it as a writer, you gotta forget about the babysitter. And she says, I gave the babysitter my word.

And she would say later that what she knew in that moment was that keeping her word to the, if she didn't keep her word to the babysitter, she wouldn't keep her word to herself about the commitments to write and do the work. She said, it's the same commitment. Like I'll be home by nine to put my kid to bed is the same commitment as I will arrive at nine to write tomorrow morning. And if you get in a thing with yourself or with other

people where you don't do what you say, it's very hard to be successful. That's discipline. It's also very hard to be a good person. That's justice. And so it's this, like you build these habits where I do what I say. He said, I'm not gonna bring my phone in the gym. He doesn't bring his phone in the gym. That says more than the workout, that says more than the distraction. At the same time, it also says something

about those things too. Do you know what I mean? It says something about you as a person, but you're also demonstrating it over and over again. Like, hey, I do what I say, and also I'm building this habit, this muscle of doing the thing. I think I may have heard your podcast with Cal Newport

when you mentioned the justice versus discipline conversation, and I actually paused the podcast. I was driving. I remember it now. And I left myself a voicemail because I was like, I don't know if I understand the difference. Not that I disagree with what you said in the podcast or what you just said now. But I'm like, I wonder if I were to teach a first grader, this is what discipline means, and this is what justice means.

How would I explain the contrast? So yesterday we're starting camp. There's only three words on our wall in the facility, and you've seen it—love, work, and trust. And so last week there were second through sixth graders at the camp, this week it's seventh through twelfth graders. So last week there were second through sixth graders at the camp, this week at seventh through twelfth graders. Completely different environment in the gym. But also, I'm explaining yesterday as I'm starting camp, everybody has a different definition of love and work

and trust. So before we start camp, let me just tell you what those words are in our program. And that does not mean that we're right. And it doesn't mean that what you would describe your words, what your definition is to be wrong. And I was thinking about this when I walked away, one of the camp coaches who I didn't know was introducing to stuff. And he goes, Coach, that was really good. And I was like, what was really good? He goes, what you just said. I go, thank you. What though? What was good? Similar to what you're saying, what is discipline to Ryan versus what is discipline to the young man who I don't know, who I'm saying, don't bring the phone to the gym. It can be different

things. And so one of the things with our group that I'm trying to sort through how to be more succinct in my words with them, there's so much that it feels like we can't control. What is it that we can control? Well, we can control our words. We can control our work. I think we can control our discipline. I think we can control our reactions. I think we can control our attitude instead of talking about the things or giving emotion or energy to the things that we can't control. Let's just leave that alone and put it under the invisible mirror. Is this something we can control or is this something we can't control? Oh, we can't control this buzz. Okay. Well, how should we control it? And within the framework, we're completely

not giving energy to the things that we can't control, but of what we can control. And I'm trying to improve in that regard. What can I control? And time's been something I've been paying attention to more of, similar to some of the things we were talking about with Coach Rav. And it's how am I spending my time? It's arguably the greatest resource any of us have. We can't create more. We know that. We can just waste less. Yeah. But we also don't even know how much time

we have left. And so then how important, how more important is it of the things we can control, including our time, within how we utilize our time? Yeah. And to me, that's discipline. Of course. No, and look, the virtues are inseparable from each other. And as soon as you try to make very clear distinctions, I think you get yourself in trouble. Fair enough. Because if courage is doing the thing you're afraid of,

but what if you're doing the wrong thing and that's why you're afraid of it? What if you're fighting for a bad cause, right? Or what if you're disciplined, like you're hardworking, you're committed, you're not stopping, but you're misinformed and so you're doing the wrong thing. You're doing something that doesn't make a difference. So the virtues are all related and impossible to separate. And I think what you tend to find is that they're distinct, but also the same. So this story about this woman keeping her word,

she realizes, hey, like I gave my babysitter my word, so I have to keep it because it's the right thing to do. It's also the disciplined thing to do. Because if you get in the habit of not doing what you say, well, now you're a person who doesn't do what they say. And if you say, hey, I'm gonna run a marathon, well, now you got a million reasons to listen to the excuses that let you off the hook

from doing this thing you committed to do. So the discipline of, hey, I told you I would be there and volunteer for your cause, and now I don't feel like showing up, that's not the right thing to do, that you're screwing someone over. If you say, hey, I'm gonna get up early and hit golf balls in the morning before my game to practice,

you're gonna screw yourself over if you're the person who says, well, nah, it's early, I don't want to anymore. Do you know what I mean? So you're getting from either virtue, you're getting to the same place, which is you made a commitment, Are you doing it or not? Thanks so much for listening.

If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it. And I'll see you next episode. If you like The Daily Stoic and thanks for listening, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

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