The Daily Stoic - Garland Robinette On The Stoic Principle That Shapes His Incredible Life

Episode Date: July 1, 2023

Ryan speaks with Garland Robinette about the brain-altering effects of chasing dopamine, how he has coped with his morally injurious experience serving in Vietnam, his movie-like life and career path, why working in broadcast forced him to let go of his ego, the deep sense of peace and purpose that painting gives him, and more.Garland Robinette is an artist and former journalist, television news anchor, radio host, entrepreneur, and janitor. Born in deep Louisiana bayou country, Garland dropped out of college  and joined the Navy to serve in Vietnam. Just thirty days after returning home from an intense deployment, he found work as a janitor at the New Orleans TV station WWL-TV Channel 4, and four months later, with no experience, he was hired as the news anchor and investigative reporter. After a twenty-year stint which saw him marry his co-host, Garland left news to form his own company, which, after a highly successful run, he then quit to spend more time with his daughter. Finally, he spent ten years hosting a radio program that brought him national acclaim for his coverage on Hurricane Katrina. Now in his seventies, Garland spends his time indulging in his passion and twilight career: painting. You can follow Garland’s work on Instagram @thegarlandrobinette.✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoke podcast early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoke. Each weekday, we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stokes. Something to help you live up to those four Stoke virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview stoic philosophers, we explore at length how these stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives

and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend, when you have. Here on the weekend when you have a little bit more space when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal and most importantly to prepare for what the week ahead may bring. Hey it's Ryan Holiday welcome to another episode of the Daily Stood Podcast. Some of you know this, some of you don't. I moved to New Orleans to write what became my first book. I don't know exactly why I picked New Orleans. I wanted to live somewhere very different than where

I'd grown up, than where I went to college, than where I was working. And I just wanted to live a writer's life in New Orleans, seem like a place you could live cheaply, go in long walks, be surrounded by history and characters. And one of the great New Orleans characters is actually today's guest. If you saw Spike Lee's documentary

when the Levy's broke, you might know the name Garland Robinette. If you've Spike Lee's documentary, when the levees broke, you might know the named Garland Robinette. If you've seen the movie Anchorman, well, you kind of know his story because it feels like they ripped a bunch of headlines straight from Garland's life. I'll give you the sort of top line of it. He's born basically to swamp people. He becomes an orphan. He gets drafted. He fights in Vietnam. Terribly grievously wounded. It comes back all messed up. It's working as a janitor at a TV station. And one night, the anchor is out and they ask him to fill in. And he goes on to be a legendary television anchor. He marries his co-host. It's national news. They make a He marries his co-host, it's national news. They make a Ron Burgundy, Veronica Corningstone-esque couple.

Then he becomes a PR specialist. Then he works in radio. He happens to be working the radio one day when this little thing called Hurricane Katrina happens. His broadcasts reach all around the world, reach American presidents, shame, a nation's terrible response. And that's only like the first third, fourth, fifth, sixth act of this guy's life.

He goes on, there's a painting from Garland in my office of the Great Walker Percy that I look at almost every day. He is just an absolutely fascinating guy. He's currently writing a memoir about a lot of this, but I'll just let you get into this story. This is when I finished this interview, my producer walked in and said, that might have been one of the best interviews ever done. I thought that also, and I think you're really going to like this. Check out his art. It's fascinating. He's a brilliant artist.

Like I said, I've got one of his paintings hanging here in my office. You go to robinetstudio.com, r-o-b-i-n-e-t-t-e studio.com. You can follow him on Instagram at the Garland Robinette, just an absolutely perfect new or lenient name. I met Garland when I was living in New Orleans and he invited me on his radio show. We had dinner a couple times, then he moved to Austin. We've bumped into each other every once in a while and I thought, it's been a while since I've seen Garland, let's have him come out to the studio and do the show, what he did. And I think he crushed, and I can't wait for you to listen to this fascinating interview

with an absolutely fascinating person. Life can get you down. I'm no stranger to that. When I find things are piling up, I'm struggling to deal with something. Obviously, I use my journal, obviously, I turn to stochism, but I also turn to my therapist, which I've had for a long time and has helped

me through a bunch of stuff. And because I'm so busy and I live out in the country, I do therapy remote, so I don't have to drive somewhere. And that's where today's sponsor comes in. Toxbase makes it easy to find a therapist that you like. It's convenient, it's affordable. By doing everything online, Toxbase makes getting the help you want easy and affordable. So why wait? And Talkspace can help with any specific challenge you might be facing. That's why it's the number one online therapy platform with license therapists. And over 40 specialties, it's secure and private and in network with most major insurers.

As a listener of this podcast, you can get 80 bucks off your first month with Talkspace when you go to Talkspace.com. So to match month with Talkspace when you go to Talkspace.com slash stoic to match with a license therapist today. Go to Talkspace.com slash stoic to get 80 bucks off your first month and show your support for the daily stoic. That's Talkspace.com slash stoic. It's funny. I talk to lots of people and a good chunk of those people haven't been readers for a long time.

They've just gotten back into it. And I always love hearing that and they tell me how they fall in love with reading. They're reading more than ever. And I go, let me guess, you listen audio books, don't you? And it's true. And almost invariably, they listen to them on Audible. That's because Audible offers an incredible selection of audio books across every genre from bestsellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs.

And of course, ancient philosophy, all my books are available on audio, read by me for the most part. Audible lets you enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app. You'll always find the best of what you love, or something new to discover. And as an Audible member, you get to choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. You'll discover thousands of titles from popular favorites, exclusive new series, and exciting new voices in audio. You can check out Stillness is the key, the daily dad. I just recorded so that's up on Audible now. Coming up on the 10-year anniversary of the obstacle is the way audiobooks, so all those are available and new members can try Audible for free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash daily stoke or text daily stoke to 500-500. That's audible.com slash daily

stoke or text daily Stoke to 500 500. Yeah, I was trying to think when did I do your show? It would have been like 12 or 13 years. Oh, and forever. Absolutely. I was telling print last night. I was telling I was coming here. And I said, my staff brought in this book, trust me, I'm lying. You got to read this. And I was saying, I got to read God damn it. Doing five, six hours of research every day. My executive producer insisted that I bring it on. So I read it one night and I came back and I said,

Jesus Christ, we have to get this guy on. I'm never in, because that was my business communications. I'd never seen it put that way. And so we got to bring him in. So over the years I've tracked you, not closely, but I've watched. And I remember telling my friend last thing How anything fuck he went to his editors and said I know trusty line Is gonna be a blockbuster, but I want to start doing books on this story

They were not excited. They were definitely not excited. I can't imagine Story. Well, they were not excited. They were definitely not excited. I can't imagine. Well, it was funny because... Most people don't know what the story's are. They do now because of you, but before. Well, my editors told me later that they basically were just humoring me and they hope that it would come out and not do, and then I would just write more marketing books. and they hoped that it would come out and not do well. And then I would just rate more marketing books. God. But I did that in New Orleans.

I remember I heard that when in pieces, you were living in New Orleans, did that in Tulane Library. I wrote Trust Memorizing in New Orleans, and then I wrote the proposal for the obstacles away there. And I sent it to them the week that Trust Me I'm one came out that's always what I want to do. I think we got to out of California. I don't remember I remember I was on like I remember I was on my book tour or

something and you had emailed me and I of course knew who you were because everyone in New Orleans knew who you were and and I remember I came back for it and did it. And then I don't know how much longer I lived there after that. I don't remember exactly what's been to you live there. We had dinner in New Orleans. I know that, but I thought you were just going to book just hanging around with you.

No, no, I, I very, to write Trust Me Online, I very much needed to not live in like a media city and it was very nice to live in a place where nobody cared and basically may as well have been 1980 or 1880. You know what I mean? Like the city is just... You're not saying you're right. Yeah.

It just lives. It's it's own thing with its its own time zone and vibe. And I needed to, yeah, I needed just a totally different way of thinking to do that. Well, I've always said the city was very, very, very good to me. Yes. But it's a great place to visit, not to live.

As soon as I finished the book, I lived there for like eight or nine months while I was writing the book and I loved it. And then as soon as I finished the book and I was like trying to do business related things, I was like, I gotta get out of here. This is insane. It was just like, and the city had not changed at all. It was just

my, when I was totally focused and consumed with what I was doing. It was great. And then as soon as I looked around and was like, this is insane. I can't operate here. We see it. It's not part of the United States. It's not part of itself. The matter. Yeah. Because when people say Mexico, Ecuador, Argentina, and great food, great architecture, great culture, great music, crimes, stupidity, bad streets, bad infrastructure. Well, it's like nature is constantly trying to claw back whatever gains civilization is made. And it does mean castrifically in some case, but just on a daily basis, you're

like, Oh, the swamp is reclaiming the street. And if, if civilization does not fight back, it will not be a street much longer. It's a doom city. It, is it. It may take another 20 years, but it's doomed. It's not going to make it. Do you miss it? No, no, no. Not at all. No, I love Texas. I didn't think I was liking it all.

My wife made this movie. I wanted to go other boats from North Carolina. Get out of the South. I went out to New Orleans, period. And the South, I think the South was just stupid. And we got here and I thought, oh, fucking red necks with a pickup truck. I love it.

Yep. This town. That sounds great. It was like a fucking post car. I know, it's like Disney's main street. I had breakfast across street and I thought This is the way to live. Yeah, I like it. Oh I love it. I have a little lawyer not didn't they got word yet New Orleans is great to after you've lived there then visit because then you can go to all It's like having grandkids or something great place to visit. Yes exactly

It's not all upside down the downside not live there. I always just Tell my wife. I've been shot twice and Living in New Orleans would walk down the street and if the wall was here I made her walk to the inside. So I got to the end of the wall, I could see around and be ready. I said, I don't want to live like this. Yeah.

Constantly worried. And I had a very good friend there. Sunday afternoon, 12 noon, on looking groceries, two kids walk up, give me a wide array of things, slow doing the shot and paralyze them, live for 12 years, totally paralyzed. Very rich guy, great part of me was, I thought, I can't live like this.

I can't, I'll kill somebody, shoot them myself. I have to leave. There is the walkability is of course amazing, the shade is amazing, the architectures. You know what I mean? You miss all of that, you get the texture. You're like, where are the trees? Where are the, where are the trees? You know, like, where are the,

where are the, why is everyone so spaced out? But there's a cost to it also. Yeah, and in Texas, what I found, it's really like 20 states in one. Yeah. You go to Kergo and you go, what the fuck? Is this mountain, or close the mountain? Have you been a big band yet? Going, this this mountain? It's a close amount? Have you been to Big Bend yet? Uh, going

this august. It's incredible. So I you're going in August? Yeah. It's going to be hot. Yeah. Well, we're we're we use the hot. Not this hot. This is like this is a Big Bend is like they're like don't go hiking after 9 30 a.m. Well, that's like New Orleans. Don't go out after 12 noon. Oh, New Orleans is like, you better shower three, four times a day. Big men is like, you'll die. It's a wet hot. Yes.

Yeah. I've jogged and lost figure. So I know it's a dark time. I guess if you've been in Vietnam, you're not sort of like, you're like, whatever the weather is. I'll tell you what Vietnam is Exactly South Vietnam Louisiana. Yeah, that's why so many immigrants ended up there Exactly, I mean when I'm playing the the main base Thompson Newton I got out and went

Fuck I threw 30 hours in a back home. It's the same shit hole as I left. Because you grew up in the swamp basically. Oh, in the swamp. I mean, in the sidewalks, no lights, no, it just in the swamp. Yeah, oh, it's definitely my mother was a guy. She talked like that. She had a bring-friends home and trying to interpret English. What did she say? She said, my she loved you. Oh, I say she, bro. God. I had a very interesting life. Yeah, your life is a movie. So you grew up in the swamp and then you got drafted. How old are you? I was I'd plunked out of three

colors kicked out of one, plunked out of two, getting ready to get trapped. It's I joined the Navy. Because I'd never been in a fist fight. Never didn't like sports. You came from boat people. You came from boat people. Yeah. And I said, well, I have clean sheets and hot meals. Yeah. You ever see apocalypse now? Yeah. That's what I was on the fucking four-man. No officers, fiberglass boats in a bayou. I went through three boat crews on the only one that came home. I made earbards. How old are you? I was in my early 20s because I'd been through so much college. For every else's 18, I was the old man of the boat.

Yeah. Yeah. And how long were you there? There were 13 months on my hospital twice, probably for about five, six weeks total, but 13 months overall. That's why I went right, then this guy of this stock, they're you old man,

when we went out to have lunch, I'd read his book and I said, look, can I see something personal? I'm crazy. I love to fight. I'm always in fights of bars and I'm well-known. Now I'm always afraid people can find out how crazy I am. And he said, what's your history? He got to be a nun. And he said, boy, you're wounded. Yeah. Were they sent in the hospital, but they give you a morphine for the pain. He said, and that was it.

You came home, no, went back to combat. He said, wait a minute. How many times you go to the twice? He said, you were morphine? Did they ramp you off to go to come? No. He said, that's why you're crazy. Dopamine is running through your brain. You love danger when I was listening to your MMA interview. I was

Frank Shamrock. I was thinking he didn't know it. Yeah. He was an orphan like me. Yeah. He was an orphan like me. He went through violence like me. He ended up in prison. I almost did. That dope of being, he was saying, I got a million dollars worth of insurance. So I said, now I can just go ahead and fight. Well, that's not true. His brain wasn't saying you could get brain damage and not get insurance and really pocket

for him. The dopamine is just saying, I love the feeling of I think I'm gonna die because I was killed. Living on the edge. Oh, I want dopamine and dopamine. And immediately goes away if Sarah tonne and Don come in You just go looking for the next stop of me in the head and that was me So so you sort of get messed up over there you come home and

You end up as a janitor, right? My best friend comments are hey, once you're going to be on my wife, we're going to Burger King together. I said, you fucking soft Americans, I've been even see you're asin from 1943 for 13 months. You're just raising, right? Oh, just, I mean, I think, I truly think it was on the verge of schizophrenia. But got a job as a janitor because I had no education. And four months later, I'm the key TV anchor in the biggest news operation in the South for 20 years.

No, it's like a Horatio out just story. You're not supposed to go from being the janitor to being the on-air talent in a TV show. It's like, if that was in a movie, they'd be like, you got to put some more time there, you got to spread this out. If I wrote my life story, which many princes said I should, I promise, I guarantee not being modest, the editor would go, he's fucking guys lying. That bullshit. Come on. Janitor TV at the scene of the TV, I quit. Go to the corporation that I caught $40 million because of I didn't documentary.

And the CEO and I were almost in a fist fight, he offers me a job. I save their stock, have offices all over the world, other companies come to me. For my own company, make a shitload of money, have a daughter at 54 years old, totally enamored by her. Quit my company, go take care of her,

just be a dad at home. And a month later, print calls, that had a radio showing to say, I get cancer, I'm getting chemo, can you come in for one night, sure. Katrina, I'm there 10 years. What the fuck? I guess I mean knowing your hookdown dopamine. That's a pretty good. The through line is is just crazy circumstances and high stress

Rich ruins said the brain is listening for danger and opportunity said, the brain is listening for danger and opportunity. That's exactly what dopamine is. Exactly. And I would never have had the opportunities accomplished what I did because I loved the danger of, oh fuck, I lied about TV news. I've never been to a TV station. And you want me to watch the guy I'd prank you want me to take over the thing temporarily? I don't know, I read the profile, I don't know how to do it. I'm scared. I love it, I'm scared. Shedding the right, right, right. Right, right, right.

Corpiration, mining and gold and oil and gas and copper. Scared that one, I don't know what I'm doing this shit. And that's what does it. The mind loves danger. Well, they're faking it till you make it. There's there's the edge of, are they going to find out? I'm not qualified. I can't do it. Staying. I'm going to figure it out live. It's an MMA fight. Walking into not afraid. You're not going to do it. And if I remember from your story, you weren't just, I mean, obviously this was the sort of golden age of local TV. I get the scene. We're, weren't you like on the cover all, because you, you and your co-anchor man to get,

so it's basically the plot of Anchorman. The first, yeah, I was Ron Burgundy. Burgundy. Yeah. We were the first couple to get married on the air. We were in people magazine. We had a wedding in St. Charles Avenue. We had to put a live truck, 10 blocks on another church. People found out that there were over a thousand people

when we came out of the church. Street cars stopped, don't craft me, I'm saying helicopters. Oh, fucking thing. I was a janitor. A couple of years earlier. Now, it sounds like a prank, like trading spaces. It does, it does. Definitely sounds like Ron Burgundy bullshit.

How did you, I mean, how did you keep it together? Because one of the interesting things about people that are sort of hooked on that is that they're often very successful, but then when things go well, there's also kind of an element of self sabotage. The horse three dunes. The minute, and I always say, you could go back, I've been interviewed 10 million dunes. You can go back and read, I had never said a bad word about a wife.

Truly. Wonderful women. They had bad tastes in men. That was it, because men in my white picket fin showed up. All the money in the world, two houses and beach house like, divorce give them everything. To every time I was bankrupt, all the way down the road. And I just could not stand happiness. Yes. So I had to. You think you just didn't deserve it or what why couldn't you stand it? It's so romantic. Yeah. When his son sounds so ridiculous. If they hadn't

come in and said, Hey, you're time to go home, I'd have been dead or I'd been insane because I was over the edge. Did you feel anger about, because I think about, it's not like you chose to go there, right, somebody, it's not like you probably think we even should have been there. So your life has changed the course of your life,

is changed by the fact that a bunch of had decisions were made. How have you processed even having to do anything? I don't trust government. I don't trust the law. I know a lot about legal because of everything I've covered from corporate to news to read you talk. I don't trust much. It's no longer anger, lack of trust. It used to be, I don't trust it. I'm going to get you before you get me. I mean, I joined a fight cup. You know what?

52 years old in Alabama. And my wife and child didn't know about it. I mean, I'm no man fighting 18 year old kids. And I got the shit beat out of me like that. Some of the rates are ninth fight I had and the come home with broken nose You just need to just wanted to the rush and you wanted to fill the pain basically the danger. Yeah, yeah, my man Same thing. I just sit around talking to my friend Ryan. It's very nice. Oh God damn it You know, let's go just go get some danger. Has that declined

as you've gotten older at all? Well, I heard you say that you didn't think much of psychedelic. Yeah. Well, I said, I don't think much of it except for extreme cases for people. Yeah, exactly. Well, I have not thought my truck my whole life to a point on the boat. We tell people if you smoke part of your truck, it will kill you because only for a guy. Yeah, and you didn't want anyone. Somebody freaks out in the firefight. You got poor, like I got Yeah, so you do it. We'll carry in and get some I knew and I just I've been totally getting shrugged, but since I've been here I've retired. I listen to podcasts. I know you text me anytime I get mentioned anywhere and you're you're you're all you're on top of it like the day they come out. I love this guy. Lex Friedman. We ever heard him in my tea. Yeah Roboticist brilliant guy and he had two people went from Harvard and went to by government granted testing of psychedelics.

I have both, yes. They're her jarogon, same thing. They're her same arous, same thing. And I said, well, fuck, I still got nightmares. I'm almost 80 years old. I'm screaming at night, my wife got I get worse. She's getting worse. So that's about the fog. So I, and believe me, getting my troop when you're my age,

they think either you're homeless or you're a cop. I finally got them on my wife, but kill me if I took them. So she went for a hike and I didn't anything much. I grabbed the hand pulling it and pulled my God. So anyway, I did a lot more research and we started doing the microdose and got my wife agreed. And I know it's slight difference, but the John Hopkins people in particular, I learned about these hero doses. I went that for five hours and it cured me. Really?

I mean overnight. It was. It just rewired it or reset it or something for you. Well, what Hopkins and Harvard and Stanford and the one in Houston will tell you, it builds new neurons. Yeah. They do MRIs and they watch it and rebuilds neurons. It's going different directions. And their theory is that MMA in particular for veterans or MDMA. MDMA that there's fucked up as I am is the best thing to use. But I hadn't won with that. He was so famous. And it was just, it was horrifying because I learned, you know, always thought we had the parts of our brains from the past, the flashbacks that we could access.

There's a video tape in there of everything you went through of your worst moments. Oh, but you don't see little pieces. You see the whole fucking thing. Yeah. For five hours. It was just playing it again for you. But then it was gone. About three or four days later, I started sleeping for the first time in my life. What was that like? I really? It was wonderful. I mean, since 40 years, I'm afraid to shut your eyes at night, it's crazy.

Yeah, you were just white knuckling it the whole time. White knuckling it, but having a good time with the danger of it. As I saw my wife last night, I said that, um, I said that, um, Dotsicle is the way. Yeah, he wrote it out of the yeah, that is if anybody can read any book That's it. Wow. That's it because people think you know pain to me pain danger or run from them Pain to me, pain to me, pain to me, pain to you, or run from there, or get away from you, do something.

That's not it, you just go, the Vietnamese called it, sock mile, walking to the pain, walking to the pain. And that's the only but not cause I'm not to you, I'm told, the bullshit, but that book is the only book you know, I recope it.iously. The only one I've ever read

where I go every young person should be required to read. You gotta go read that. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well? Just bring them your project online, or with the Angie app, and answer a few questions. With Angie, you can book instantly at an upfront price, or request and compare quotes from multiple pros. So you can find the best price for your project. So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that, and start getting the most out of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Is this thing all? Check one, two, one, two. There y'all. I'm Kiki Palmer. I'm an actress,

a singer, an entrepreneur, and a Virgo. Just the name of you. Now I've held so many occupations over the years that my fans lovingly nicknamed me, Kiki Keepa Bag Palmer. And trust me, I keep a bag love. But if you ask me, I'm just getting started. And there's so much I still want to do. So I decided I want to be a podcast host. I'm proud to introduce you to the baby Mrs. Kiki Palmer podcast. I'm putting my friends, family, and some of the dopest experts in the hot seat to ask

them the questions that have been burning in my mind. What will former child stars be if they weren't actors? What happened to sitcoms? It's only fans, only bad. I wanna know, so I asked my mom about it. These are the questions that keep me up at night, but I'm taking these questions out of my head and I'm bringing them to you

because on Baby This Is Kiki Palmer, no topic is off limits. Follow Baby This Is Kiki Palmer whatever you get your podcast. Hey, prime members, you can listen early and app-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. But what's interesting is you went into the pain for a long time and then it turned out there's a way around it. Or...

I got lucky. Yeah. Because most people like me end up in prison. What is interesting as I was at Andrews Air Force Base recently and someone asked me about that they were talking about moral injury, which is when you do something or you see something or you are part of something that's terrible that stains you that changes your brain chemistry, you know, how do you reenter society? You can't just, you know, if still racism to people means this idea of just, you know, white knuckling it or just going into the pain, tuffing it out, that's, you're,

nobody's strong enough to do that. You can't just experience something like that and then rub some dirt on it and go back to regular life. Well, I'm over simple lying, but still it says, and misusing your brain to live life. Yeah. Chemicals, or what room you, when you can't control life. Yeah. And you have to, if you don't process the emotions and deal with them, whether it's in therapy or with medically assisted therapy, like you're talking about,

if you just stuff it down, it comes exploding out when someone bumps into you at a bar, or you look around and you've got this beautiful family and a white pick of fence, and you go, I'm not worthy of this. Or you have some self-destructive edge in you. You can't, if you stuff it all down, it comes exploding out.

Oh, absolutely. My poor daughter has heard me more nightmares and anger. We're at Stop by the St. Charles Avenue. That beautiful convertible and she's probably seven rate. And the light was still red and the guy behind me beeped. I jumped out of the car, ran back and ran him out of the shirt. I came to him and he said, look, go behind me.

I think I have the light change. I'm sorry. And walk back and drive it off. You know, you can tell somebody's looking at you, look to her and say, little kid goes, what is wrong with you? And you have kids. Yeah, you just, yeah, your heart just dropped you go What is the fuck wrong with you and why can't I fix it? Yeah, I went to two of the top drinks in New York that handle only survivors playing Christ the car crisis of war and They worked with me for three weeks and third week they said Yours may not be the war. You may be mentally ill.

They put me on lithium and everything else you can think of. So I hired detective to go find my blood pain. I find my father in the Texas, in the V hospital, shot in the left shoulder, same fucking place. I've been shot. Schizophrenic mental institution, his whole life. And I just got through it. The two Frinks had said, you may just be mentally ill.

Have you read the book, The Body Keep Score? I think you would like it. But it's the idea that these things happened to us, we endured these things. It's not just in our brain chemistry, but sort of just literally in our bodies. And that if you don't find some way to process or some kind of support system, it doesn't end well. I think you'd like it.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I'll read that. Yeah, he's talking about this guy. He was dealing with this veteran who I think it was Korea, maybe or whatever. At the end of their sessions, the guy gives him his watch, the watch he was wearing in Korea that was, you know, like broken when a landmine went off or something. And he was pointing at the, it strikes the doctor. He's like, time basically stopped for this dude when that happened. And he was never the same.

And it was only in, you know, he, he went on and had a seemingly normal life, but there was always this undercurrent of... I'd like to read that. I think you would like it. One of the key moments in my life, this guy, Eagleman, where lunch and he's explained,

dopamine seroton, saying, that's what caused all this shit. And we talked and drove it into the dinner and said, wait a minute, wait a minute. I wanted to be a priest before I went to Vietnam. You did? Yeah. I never had a fist fight.

I had asthma. I couldn't place for it. Baseball scared me as a phrase going to hit by the baseball. Football was too dangerous and earned too much. Never fist-side, no nothing. And I go to this place for 13 months. Right. Come out there the side.

Different person. Not. And the killer. Yeah. I mean, a killer. And I said, who's the bad guy? Who's the good guy? Yeah. And he said, I don't think there aren't. There isn't anybody. I said, what do you mean? He said, well, good people have good chemicals that society agrees with. Sure.

Chemicals that society agrees with. Sure. Bad people have bad chemicals that society doesn't agree with. Those bad chemicals almost always are brought about by trauma. Childhood, whatever it may be. Sure. If you're on my mask, how was your childhood? Sorry. That's all right. I agree.

I would say it would it had the appearances of all the things being good. There was no defining events like yours, but there was a an undercurrent of something missing. But you're driven. Yeah, very much. Why? You know, I saw this meme the other day

that was like daddy issues in women lead to sex work. Daddy issues for men lead to podcasts. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha of you that wants to be seen or heard or taken seriously. And that's probably rooted in some sense of not getting not getting what you tried to give your daughter unconditionally. Do you know what I mean? So there was, I have no complaints materially about my childhood or life, but there was something. But you are driven. Yeah. Yeah. Very much. Yeah. I mean, a good way. I mean, but that's an interesting point. Your point about chemicals, right? Is there's, sometimes people have, you know, issues or chemical imbalances or coping mechanisms

that are adaptive and some that are not, right? That's right, he was saying. Yeah. I've got a friend that say, made your Catholic. That's how I grew up, which I hate. And I love him. But, and he was saying, I don't believe I'd bring him,

because I said, I can give you enough LSD right now that you become a motherfucker. Sure. Or I can give you some sort of chemical that will make you angry, or I think you become going to make you so fucking docile, you could be a mass murderer, and it's funny, he works at UT, he's a professor in physics, and I said, right there on your campus in the Bell Tower, Charles Whitman. Yeah, one of the first math shootings. Eagle scout, straight-A student, never had

a speeding ticket, nothing. Because of the slaughters all those people. Left a letter when you do ball of topsy, check something's wrong. Yeah. And they found a tumor on the part of the brain that causes anger. Yeah. So I said, yeah, self-determination, self-directed, it does have an effect, but've got to have the chemicals that I got to mesh. I remember where you want to go. I read someone, I read a sort of an essay from a trans person. They were a woman who became a man. And they were talking about when they started getting testosterone, a lot of their opinions about men that they thought had to do with specific men, you

know, and culture. She, she, he was like, Oh, I get it. I like, I get it. I get where that's coming from, which isn't to excuse it, but it's to, it's, we, we do as a society tend to assume everyone should behave a certain way and then everyone's capable of behaving a certain way and then everyone's capable of behaving a certain way. You think about this, like, people have affairs, you know, you're like, that's obviously not okay.

You said you wouldn't do that, you did it, you lied about, there's all the reasons that it's wrong. And then you go, but maybe if you measure their levels and your levels, you wouldn't be so glib about saying they should just not do it. You know, like, there is, we don't have a lot of empathy for people who are just chemically, biologically, genetically different than us. Oh, you sell people.

Married sex is like having a brand new swimming pool. You're in it every fucking day. You love it. Yeah. Six months into it, you're in it three times a week. A year later, you're barbecuing why everybody else gets in the pool. And it's a joke, but dopamine when you meet somebody,

and it's the right dopamine, 12, 18 months later is serotonin and oxycutin doesn't work in, it's over. Yeah, I think William Blake has this line about when you conquer an urge To realize that actually it was just that your urge was weak enough to overcome and for some people that's that's not the case I think that's what my friend said. I was weak enough for it to overcome Because I'm not sure if I've done that heroes those at 40. Yeah, if I'm doing fight club at 50 something

Or to even think a lower dose of the things that you took maybe no effect at all. We're having very different conversation right now Yeah, oh absolutely It's been a great podcast. I don't want to keep you longer. No, no, we got to be more to talk. You know, I have this painting you gave me. It's in my office where I write. Yeah, I know it. I saw it last time. That's very nice. Did you ever meet Walker Percy? Oh, yeah, shit. Yeah, I did. I got to his place and we covered him. Long, and yeah. What was he like? place and we can come to him. Lunch and yeah.

What would he like? Like you? He was driven. But see, I think it's a complex I have from not having education. Sure. I love talking to people to think like you think, to think like you think.

And the reason you read, I heard it in one of your podcast, you gather all the information that's written a thousand, a thousand years ago. It's not just to be an educated one, it's because you get so much smarter. When you do it, that's where he was. And I When you do it, and that's where he was. He and I, you saw your religion and very Catholic, right? Part of he became very Catholic. Yeah, and I was I was one bigger priest and then hate the Catholic Church. So who used to go around with him? He had a fucked up early life. I didn't know that. His Basically, every male in his family committed suicide, like generationally, his grandfather was a senator,

his father, his grandfather was hunting with Theodore Roosevelt when he didn't shoot the bear that became the teddy bear. That's how far back his family goes. But then his father committed suicide, then they think his mother committed suicide, and he ended up being adopted by this guy, his uncle Will, who wrote this book, Lanterns on the Levy, which is like one of the beautiful sort of southern memoirs about that era. And so he and his three brothers get adopted by this guy who's almost certainly

He was a confirmed bachelor who wrote he fought in World War one. He's a confirmed bachelor in the South who wrote poetry Right, so it's basically a closeted gay man in the South and you could not be a gay man Then he gets raised, you know, basically in greenville, Mississippi, and he becomes best friends with Shelby foot, the historian, their boyhood friends. But then he's going to medical school at Columbia, and one of the courses they have to dissect cadavers, and it gets tuberculosis from a cadaver and never basically never recovers. That's why he basically is in quarantine in a sanitarium. He can't fight in World War II.

So he misses the seminal event of his generation and yes, never recovers emotionally or physically from that stuff and that's that's where the movie going all his books come from this sort of sense of There's a chapter with this other doctor I'm reading in here. He said the dopamine Depending on your levels Is as close to schizophrenia as you can get. And that begins creativity. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, he started writing in his like four late 40s,

maybe early 50s. And then yeah, he, but I think one of the great American writers and that's so cool that you got to know him. Yeah, I get to know the big playwright, Tennessee Wave. Really? Yeah, he lived right down the block from the TV station and I had two very, very gay friends and they introduced me to him and we got told we could talk and visit.

How old was he then? Was he pretty old? I think he was in 60s. Now I look at it and see that old. But now what's interesting is that it seemed old. Only in a town like New Orleans, could you get to know, like New Orleans, the benefit of New Orleans is that it's such a small town where 90% of the people are doing nothing.

So the people that are doing interesting things, it's a small club. Amen, amen. I don't know if I've turned the way I started painting. I never painted. I used to sketch real quick. And when I got the TV anchor thing, I sketched Shettles every night for two years.

So I'd got sketched the floor crew and we go to commercial, because I know what to do. Just something to do with your energy. And one of the floor directors, unbeknownst to me, would take my scripts, go to the Throne and Crash, take them out and save those sketches. He came to me one day and he said, look, going all out, he said, you're well known. If you let me zeroxies and sell my, I think I can buy my books about pay half, whatever I get. So if you can get people by that shit, you go ahead and keep the money.

So about, I'm shortly after, they had a boy all the calls, because they owned the TV station, were work. He said, I see your art all over campus. And I said, art, I work. He said, the little guy, I can recognize some of the floor group. I said, oh, yeah, yeah, God, he said, how'd you like to do a portrait? So I'd never

done portraits, but I always sketch on just like to sketch. He said, well, you want to give a try? I said, sure, who is it? Pope John Paul. I spent who is it Pope John Paul. I Send two days of Pope John Paul. I had to go to the art store and say I'm Famous visit to New Orleans. Yeah, so I'm after oils. I can't water call what they said pass us like chalk Yeah, put on paper So I thought it was sketching, did it? It became the puffer for his visit, which sold over three states. And within six months, I've done portraits for 20 and 25 thousand dollars a piece. I did Jimmy Buffett. I did the owner of the saint. I did movie stars at Brian Williams' daughter and on and on and on. And it's his janitor, TV Pope.

Partists. What the fuck? It's insane. It's insane. I was so bad today. Before the breakthroughs you had later, was painting away to deal with The emotional issues and the stress once I did the pope's poster health off shit They've got no done. I enjoyed that yeah

It got to where not only was a good therapy I always said if anybody saw me painting, they'd call us Frank. Because I'd put on Tchaikowsky's third concerto and be flat minor and be screaming it through the studio and throwing paint, scratching and tearing it. And I have great therapy. I just loved it. I absolutely loved it. Have you read Churchill's book on painting? No, I just loved it. I absolutely loved it. Have you read Churchill's book on painting?

No, I have not. Churchill wrote this book called Painting as a Pastime. So after World War I, where he not only saw combat and was gassed and saw all the the terribleness that was trench warfare, but he had before the war been like one of the fastest rising politicians and Celebrities in the world and it basically he blows it, you know He his reputation is destroyed. He's bounced out of power

So he has this nervous breakdown. Yeah, and his sister-in-law Says is there at there at his house one day and his sister-in-law gives him her children's paint set and says, I think this might be helpful for you. And he falls in love with painting, and I'm not sure Churchill that the world knows in the second half of his life, you know, we'll fight on the beaches, Churchill, you know, the, the, the defiant Churchill, you know, the iron curtain church, you know, the great church. I'm not sure if that church Exists without the church. Oh that falls in love with painting. Yeah. I Was still people that I played classical music for in time. I was

Seven to a time I was eighteen did concerts over there and only music and painting do you truly lose time. You go something, it's like when you're writing. You may bring, say, and get step up into it, and you're been in it an hour. You've been in it for an hour. You've been in an hour. You've been in your four hours. You've been there. That's what pre, the people that are blessed with creative chemicals are the most blessed. Because I don't think there's anything that tops that.

But don't you say, I wonder if everyone is capable of it. Because if you look at Churchill's paintings, they're not good. like he wasn't good, but that wasn't the point. The point was the doing, like the paintings, actually a Brad Pittpot one for Angelina Jolie that just resold for like $10 or $11 million. That painting is not worth $11 million

because of its artistic merits. It's worth $11 million because of its artistic merits. It's worth $11 million because of what the painting did for the person who painted it, right? Yeah. He, it taught him how to look at the world like an artist. It taught him to go outside. It forced him to be present. I totally agree that anybody can do it.

I, this big studio in the North Shore, big 38-year farm, two houses, one whole house was a magnificent studio. I saw your little one at your house. I saw your little studio. Yeah, but this one is this combined with your building there. I had two good prints, both a multi-millionaire big businessmen And they're watching me paint one day and they say to you just think I can't draw a stick figure I said tell you why when I put you in here with an equal put you in here needs Watch country all favorite music country classical my place of music. I'm gonna close the doors I'm gonna give some music, I'm gonna close the doors, I'm gonna

give you some booze and drink as much as you can. I don't care if you throw the shadow on the canvas, paint it, put it whatever it may, just the emotion, go for it. And when it's throw you, I'm sure it's a good throw it away. And see if you like art. Yeah. One listen Phoenix now has a 2500 square foot studio where he does modern art and the other does folk art and it's entire barn. Got transferred into a studio. So you're absolutely right. It's within all of us. but are you given the opportunity and the encouragement? Yes. If they didn't say, come on, try the Pope. Yeah.

I'm sure. I've never done a thing. No doubt my mind. Raising kids can be one of the greatest rewards of a parent's life. But come on, someday, parenting is unbearable. I love my kid, but is a new parenting podcast from Wondry that shares a refreshingly honest and insightful take on parenting. Hosted by myself, Megan Galey, Chris Garcia, and Kurt Brown-Oller, we will be your resident

not-so-expert experts. Each week we'll share a parenting story that'll have you laughing, nodding, and thinking. Oh yeah, I have absolutely been there. We'll talk about what went right and wrong. What would we do differently? And the next time you step on yet another stray Lego in the middle of the night, you'll feel less alone.

So if you like to laugh with us as we talk about the hardest job in the world, listen to, I love my kid, but wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. In the book, Churchill says, like, he says, the most important thing that like an important, powerful, busy person can have, he says you have to have one or two hobbies and they have to be real, right? It has to be, it can't be listening to classical music, it has to be playing classical music, it can be looking at paintings, it has to be doing paintings.

It can't be watching sports, it has to be running or biking or playing that. Like you have to do something that gets you, if not active, that gets you lost. Like there's this scene, I don't, I talk about my talks, but Churchill is staying at the White House and he walks into the Oval Office Slate at night and he sees FDR and FDR is going through his stamp collection.

And Churchill would have understood this immediately. Even if he thought collecting stamps was a dumb hobby, he would have understood why FDR was doing it and what he was getting out of it. Because Churchill's other hobby was brick laying. He would lay bricks on his property. And if you go, you should go to Chartwell. You can go to his estate in the English countryside. And it's ringed by this brick wall that he built. And one of the buildings is his art studio. And you can see what this guy, especially in the years that he was kind of exiled there in the wilderness,

as he said, that this is where he spent his time. This is how he processed his frustrations, his anger, his impatience. This is how he thought about, you know, his plans for the future. Like, he would not have been able to emotionally withstand the stress of the 1930s and the 1940s without these positive, adaptive coping mechanisms that he picked up. You're on another subject. I read to him, Walter General, him radio is dead. All the car companies are cutting it out,

saying it interferes with electrical, in the electrical, and whatever. This, I think, one way, I think is it, is it. I think news is going away because of AI. Yeah. I think what is it that I've read, a 52% of Americans read on a seventh grade level. So reading is not going to be what it was.

It'll always be there. But this Joe Rogan right now has a video, AI video of him interviewing Steven Jobs. And you can barely tell that it's not real. Soon it will look absolutely real. But this at a certain time from a certain place, you had a guarantee it's gonna be real. You can't fake it. And an hour, you're not at the time. I want your interviews to be no longer. Yeah, I know. I do like listening to those like two hour ones, but one, yeah, I don't totally have the time to do it. And then two, I feel a little weird imposing,

like asking for that much time for people. People are you testable. You wanna talk to me? Sure, I'd love to. And it's only for an hour, and you're talking three hours later in there. Yeah. And I was in bed now,

and then I painted a pulp and shit. What is, it is funny. Audio books have had a similar impact in that like I hear from people that they were like, I didn't read books until audio books. And I think there's some authors and writers and publishers that have kind of a snobbish view of that. But I think whatever, whatever, by whatever means you take in the information, more power to you, there is, I think there is something special about reading, like you're here, you're reading this book, you've taken notes. I think that, you have a highlighter.

To me, that's, that is the way, the best way to get what an author has done, but listening to them on podcasts, watching videos of them, listening to audiobooks, whatever gets you out of your comfort zone, engaging with material, absorbing big ideas I'm all about. I agree. And the main most of the books I read now, I heard on Potter. Yes. Yes. It's probably the biggest driver of discovery. Oh, really? Yeah. Sure. I'll get a book. Well, because if the person can keep you engaged for an hour or two, the chances of them being able to deliver that in a book are pretty high. Whereas, conversely, if I listen to podcasts, I'm like, this person's annoying, this person's wrong, this person has no idea what they're telling. I'm not going to

go get the book. So it's a nice way to, like, I just, I was just in New York and I did to, like, I did CBS this morning, which was super cool opportunity to reach lots of people. I'd five minutes. I'd five minutes and I was asked questions by four or five different people. That's like, how can I explain something I've been thinking about for years? How can I explain a whole school of ancient philosophy in 12-second soundbites? But in a podcast, like when I did Rogan, when we talked for two and a half hours, you know, you can you can really go in depth on Really can really can it's a much more It's a much more conducive medium

I'm probably Swade way too much towards podcasts because Before the accidental radio show. Yeah, my ego wouldn't fit in this room. I was an asshole. He gets us. And when I wrote a book about this, when I did the radio show, first 10, first 20, first 30 shows were, Right and what do you think you're using? I'm no widower. No, I don't think I'm any. And then it was, right, I disagree.

And I come off in my, I have my staffing and they say, can I kick your ass, didn't they? What do you mean? Well, you said that and he said you're wrong and you didn't think come back. Yeah, okay, so get better prepared for the event. And then finally, I got to a point where I just shot the fuck up. Ask him a question.

If you disagree, ask it any a question, and listen and learn. Yeah. And that was my introduction to critical thinking. I don't know what critical thinking was. Well, you may be the only person to have a media platform to go that direction, because it's usually the exact opposite. There's this David Foster Wallace essay about talk radio hosts. Have you read it?

Yeah. And he's like, just go sit in front of a microphone and try to talk for 20 minutes. The ego you have to have and the self-absorption you have to have to think, not only do I deserve this, but that just me pulling thoughts out of my ass is interesting to millions of people. Like that's really like when you think about like limbaugh or these other radio hosts. Their secret skill, it's not the sound of their voice, it's their, their self assurance

that they deserve two hours directly in the ear of millions of people just reacting to fucking news as it's happening. With the reason I got pushed in the critical thinking was gender, okay TV. You talking to a piece of glass with the word flowing paste. Sure, yeah, you're just a teleprompter. Takes no fucking brains. You got a lot of hair, your average looking, you're good to go. Getting the corporations, if you have a good idea that makes money, you're good to go. You didn't read your top show.

They know prompter. They know nobody sitting there a partner to fill the dead air. Yeah. They know body if you're interviewing somebody on quantum physics. Yeah. To go ask them about the double. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to be interesting to be not just interesting, but so interesting. They'll sit through the next commercial break and watch you do it again and not turn the dial because you got to I learned Okay, this is hard. Yeah If you shut up and listen and you go so I thought so is that right? No, it's not because ABC sure, okay

And look but little I was getting educated because I no longer was doing a show to show by how tough I was or who I was. I was doing a show to teach me something. I don't understand. There's an epictetus line. It's impossible to learn that, which you think you already know. And that's what's wrong with the world, too. Of course, yeah. I called them when I had the rage, I used to piss off two million people,

demodones and republicans. Yeah. Because they, it's just cults that are built to echo chamber. Everything you thought is right. Yeah, what does my party think of this issue? That's what I think of that issue. And with critical thinking, you can't join the club. Sure.

You can't get into an echo chamber. Because you're not looking to see how right you are. Sure. You're looking to see where you're wrong. Yeah. It took me about 30 years to read that part. So the final part of your story is these medical issues you've had since, right? Is the one.

Well, so it's not like you, it's been smooth sailing up until now, but then it's also not like it's been smooth sailing since. You had a bunch of health issues like the last couple of years, right? And that way you had to leave the radio show and stuff. You were going to show you some time. I'm a robot. Okay. What is that? Okay. All right. This is my voice now. Yeah. Okay. There's my voice now. What's happening? This is my voice now. What is that? I have two computers in my brain. There's a battery here.

Oh, I'm feeling that. Electrical search go through me. I have to turn my brain off at night and on during the day. Because electrical charge gets too much for the brain. You got to add breaths. Yeah. And what is that? What happened? You're Robert Kennedy. Yeah. Junior or whatever. He has essential tremor. That's what's wrong with his voice. When I was in radio, I typed, and I noticed my hands starting to tremble a little bit. Then I noticed the voice coming up and down. Then we started to even call from people saying,

it's okay, I went to Mayo in Minnesota. They said, you have something called essential tremor. And if we don't operate, you won't be able to feed yourself, you won't be able to walk, you won't be able to talk. Worst version of Parkinson's. And five of our operation were your wide awake and they dropped two computers in your brain and everything's okay. I mean, I can paint. I can do that before I was. Wow. It's never easy with you, is it? No, no, no. Here's the best part. Last year,

you can think I'm so foolish. Last year, I developed a C-Scar. I developed a white spot. And a white spot on my tongue, when the doctor said, you have cancer, you get a body. And I said, well, what we do, trims their very works, I've had cancer for. Something we just skipped over. Yeah.

He said, now you have 36 months to live. What? Okay. So we made the tour of the country, said goodbye to all my friends. He came back, went to him again, and he said, what's in the mission? I don't know how it's going to say. September I go to him, he comes back, he does another. Bob says, maybe two to three months I live now.

I've got a guru in Florida, she's female. And she does all this key for and stuff that I've never had COVID. And I think it's because of her. I tell her about it, she says, you can self-hypnotize. Can't you? I said, yeah, I'll do it all the time. What's that?

Self-hypnotism. Yeah. Where you hypnotize yourself. Okay. I know how to do that. Oh. Because when the top hypnotist in the world was dad me viewing out of New York, I'm New Orleans. He was a bone surgeon, but he got interested in wrote a book that I saw him on today's show.

Went to him to stop smoking cigarettes, told him I thought hypnosis was both. He said, let me try it anyway. It worked. Then he taught me how to do it myself. So my guru says, I'm a senior tape of a neuroscientist doing a TED Talk about placebo. A placebo effect. Yeah. She's done a major study with him, my eyes and CT scan, said, won't you go hit self-identitizing every day telling yourself you're an FKTram. Come on, Jennifer, she said, what you got to lose?

Right. So I started doing that. And Dr. Friend calls and says, look, I'm so much cut. Let me cut it out. That may give you two, three, six, eight months long with a wife and daughter. So that's all right.

Now I'll stick with the hypnotism. So we go, I've been doing that for three months. So we go in, he does a surgery, and we go back, we call you, take stitches out. I said, Doc, you find a lot of cancer, meeting by a little bit. He said, gone, there's no cancer. You're like the luckiest slash

unluckiest person of all time. Absolutely, absolutely. By me, it's true, I am fucking cancer free. I had two doctors in Houston. The best of the best say you're gone. We can't do game well nothing. I go home and what was before the magical miracle treatment? What was how did you take that? I was good. Yeah. The second time I got here was season I'd hit and lower some go tripe. I thought I had my dig blown off because it's just all blown and gone. Well,

you don't get much more scared than that. Sure. I thought I was was gonna die. You know, helicopter out and the whole thing. Those are gonna die, I wanna get this too. So I've come near death so many fucking times that this is kinda like, okay, okay, the great life, very unusual life on an old fart time to go. It was my family took it hard, but I was, it was like somebody said, once on my screen, I said, yeah, that's it. And then what's the feeling when it's not there anymore? Is it the same? Is it a total even keel either way? No, when you're told you don't have it, you go, told you don't have it, you go, what the fuck am I going to do now? Because your brain went like this over.

Yeah. Say goodbye. Right. When total are your friends, but I bye bye. And now you go, so what do I do now? Yeah. And if it wasn't for painting, I don't know what that did, so around and drool. But I worked out five days a week with weights and bikes and jogging in eight years

old and strongest and old fart can be. And I don't have a or a bunch. I mean, I got a fucking remote in my pocket to turn my brain on and off. I mean, I was with a group of people at UT a couple of months ago. And they were talking about AI. And I said, you know, I think eventually, well, I have so many replacements that will be like robots. And they said, no, come on, man,

it's never gonna get it, but I said, you know, think so. I said, how about hips? How about heart? Yeah. How about all the reputuring you know? You know, I went, how about this? Pfft.

And did I bend it? What the fuck?? Now, I went, how about this? Did I bend it? What the fuck? I said, I'm a robot. I'm a walking talking robot. Sure. I mean, so when I look at, so you live long enough to become a robot. I mean, I look at chemicals and electricity.

I really wonder. I used to put people in cash, or as I like them, or my property, and now I go, I don't know what the chemistry is. Yeah, sure. I don't know what that electricity is. Or maybe just who they are right now. Maybe they'll be different after they work out. Maybe they'll be different after the postpartum depression leaves.

Maybe they'll be, you know, who knows? I heard you in your podcast that they say, they're in the stress, I just go, we just, I go run. Yeah. And I thought, yeah. The says it all the time. Why? Well, fucker, go to the it all the time. Well, I'm a fucker.

Go to the gym, go run. I'm dealing with this right now. I'm not writing as much. I'm not working on a book right now. And so, I'm noticing that clearly I developed that practice to function as a human being. And so, when I stop doing that, other stuff comes up. It's not, again, it's not as maladaptive as drinking

or getting into fights, but it keeps me regulated. And so when you take away that source of regulation, then you have to figure out either you're okay being unpleasant to be around, or I've got to figure out some substitute or some way to deal with whatever the underlying thing is. And this is, I think, where hobby's obviously come in because the nice thing about a hobby is that,

your professional success is gonna rise and fall. But the hobby, painting, or running, or woodwork, or whatever it is, it's always there. And it doesn't, it's not about winning or losing or recognition or sales or, you know, any of that. It's, it's just always there. And something you love like writing, painting, music, the thing I like best about, I never like being the same. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't paint like that anymore. I'll do

here and here. I've got to go. Yeah, I've seen your your art is very diverse and it's gone through. I got to grow. I got to change it and and that goes back to the obstacle is the way. That goes back to the obstacle is the way. Cause if you don't, you're gonna hit this well, trying the soup for pain, kind of like shit. You keep it and you're, what's my bad? You may not use it, but you use a piece of it. Well, if you don't go to the obstacle, you never get there.

Well, keeps the ego at bay too, because if you stick to where you feel good, right, you're always puffing yourself up. But if you go to where you're not good, where you're uncomfortable, where you're challenged, even if you don't get great at that thing, you have the benefits that come from being a student, from being humbled, you know, so you have to constantly be

Seeking out you have to go towards the harder way to do it or the different way to do it Can I bet both not because you wrote it? I gave it to my daughter and I said The minute you get comfortable and a little bored at work, think about another job. Think about disrupting your life. Even if you're fuck up, think about doing it because I told you mother and I are sitting here with enough fuck you money to be retired not painting

she hikes and you have a nice life and awesome but if I hadn't a janitor I'm a live TV I'm a good the corporation that hates me. All the good stuff on the other side of the risks and the Campbell's and yeah. The Oscar is the way. That I'll be a fucking book they teach in school. I'm serious because it's really critical thinking should be the way. Yeah. Because if you're not hitting an obstacle, that means your ego's taking you through what the optical is. Yeah, there's a John Wheeler quote, he's a physicist. He said, as your island of knowledge grows, so does the shoreline of ignorance. So as you learn stuff, what it should be doing is exposing you to stuff you don't know.

Like as soon as I hear about a new writer, let's say, like a new, I read something and then I go, not only did I not know about this person, now that I know about a new writer, let's say, I read something and then I go, not only did I not know about this person, now that I know about this person, I'm learning all of their influences. So suddenly you get thrust into this new world where you're exposed to all these things that you didn't even know that you didn't know. And that's the process that helps you sort of get exponentially better, right? Because if you're just sort of putsing around in your little opatic of comfort or familiarity, everyone's the one you bump into something that you don't know. But if

you're patrolling the edges, those edges are getting wider and wider each time you're being exposed to more and more things. And not only is that self-fulfilling, you're always learning more and more things, but you never become an egotist or an asshole, you never think you know it all, because every day you're just waking up and you're being constantly reminded of all the things you don't know, yes, exactly.

And if I had to point, in my very strange life, as for what was the best part, be ready to talk. If I had to point at my very strange life, as for what was the best part, be ready to talk. Yeah. Because I mean within two to three months, my ego was gone. And all I could think of is, okay, I got a guy coming home, we're going to talk physics.

Going home for six hours, read your thing I can, and ask him, it wasn't about telling him what I knew. He was learning from him. I knew that. Sure, goddamn. You know, I know if you've seen this, but if you're talking to here, there's real power to it. People listening in the car, I have fun with a jogging

or whatever, and if you go to a cocktail party, and you say the same thing, I used to tell people all the time on radio show in New Orleans, I do three hours on quantum physics. And when I got through you, I had the guests that bring me to the other boy, I put a brother, put a cocktail party, so guys, you know, you're here there with a conflict? No. Whatever, I mean, five minutes. Can't get your drink, Garland. I just remember when I got to burn my hemorrhoids out of it, I got to leave for it. It's like, I mean, there's something about it that makes a mystery or something that's

power to it. Well, I'm very glad we finally got to do this. Yeah. And I got to return the favor. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it. And I'll see you next episode. where you can listen early and add free with Wondery Plus

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