The Daily Stoic - How To Do Good For People | Congressman Tim Ryan

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

Visit Wethepeople250.us to support and learn more about Tim's We The People project.X: @TimRyanRead Ryan's Statue of Responsibility Economist article here: www.economist.com/by-invitation/2021/08/16/ryan-holiday-on-americas-missing-statue-of-responsibility✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Discover stories to inspire, sounds to soothe, and voices that can change your life. Wherever you are on your wellbeing journey, Audible is there for you. Explore bestsellers, new releases, and exclusive originals. Listen now on Audible. Hello, I'm Emily, one of the hosts of Terribly Famous, the show that takes you inside the lives of our biggest celebrities. Some of them hit the big time overnight.

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And he said, yes ma'am, he's dead. There's pure cold-blooded terror running through me. From Wondery, I'm Alice Levine and this is The Price of Paradise, the real life story of an island dream that ends in kidnap, corruption and murder. Search and follow The Price of Paradise now to listen to the Daily Stoic podcast, where each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, a short passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy,

well-known and obscure, fascinating and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are and also to find peace and wisdom in their actual lives. But first, we've got a quick message from one of our sponsors. Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. A couple years ago, I wrote this piece for The Economist about something that I guess I would have first heard about right after I graduated high school. My aunt gave me a copy of Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning, one of the greatest

books ever written in English, one of the most powerful testaments to human resilience and decency. And I think the underlying philosophy of that book is stoicism. Victor Frankl survives three different concentration camps. The book focuses on how we find meaning in our suffering. Anyway, there's a sort of offhanded mention in that book where Victor Frankl says, you know, it's interesting that there's a statue of liberty

in New York City, but there's no statue of responsibility to counterbalance it. He's saying that these two ideas relate to each other. And in fact, the Stokes talk about this, right? There's the virtue of justice, but also the virtue of self-discipline and that freedom necessitates a kind of self-discipline. And so I wrote this piece for The Economist about a case for actually putting up a statue of responsibility,

which I think would make a lot of sense in the Bay Area, right? You have the corresponding coasts, East and West, Liberty, Responsibility. Anyways, I wrote this piece. I'll link to it in today's show notes, but one of the people that reached out to me about that post, about that article, who I've gotten to know, someone I admire, is Congressman Tim Ryan. He was a US Congressman from Ohio for 20 years, from 2003 to 2023.

He was a Democratic nominee for the US Senate election in Ohio, given the way that JD Vance has... He's somebody that knows better, who should know better, JD Vance. I enjoyed his book, and then he has betrayed so many of the ideas in that book. I think he's a disappointing dude, to say the least. Anyways, not going to get into politics in this episode, but I think it would have been

wonderful if Congressman Tim Ryan had won a Centrist dude, which I think we need more of in this country and I wanted to have him on the podcast He studied political science at Bowling Green State University. He has a law degree from the University of New Hampshire and Now he's trying to figure out what he does post and now he's trying to figure out what he does post-electoral politics. I am sure there is future elected office in his future. For now, he is the head of a nonprofit called We the People,

which is dedicated to fostering unity, reform, and reconciliation in American society. It's a fascinating organization. And I think we had a had a really really good conversation that again what it wasn't political It was about something deeper the idea the Stokes talked about about being engaged about being a solution to problems about enacting this virtue in Public life in whatever it is that you do. And I'm excited to bring you this conversation. You can follow him at Tim Ryan on Twitter. You can go to wethepeople250.us.

I'll link to that in today's show notes. And one of the things Tim and I have connected with most of all is this idea of stillness. He's a big yoga guy, a big health and wellness guy. And I thought this was a really good conversation. I think you'll really like this. Again, don't be turned off by the fact that there is a politician in this episode, because it's not that kind of an episode.

And that's what I think we need more of from our elected leaders, people who follow their consciences, people who try to solve problems, people who try to solve problems, people who try to build bridges, not people who get radicalized, who play to the base, who play to the worst impulses in our humanity, which unfortunately the man who now holds that office seems to be willing to do.

And as I said, he knows knows better which is a shame. But anyways, here's my episode with Congressman Tim Ryan. Enjoy. What's it like you have a job for 20 years and then you don't have that job anymore? Frightening at first. Yeah. You know, because you, I got out in, well I lost the Senate race in November.

Right. January 6th was my last paycheck from Congress. Yes. And so you have this very small window over the holidays to try to find a fucking job. Yeah, sure. So it was, you know, and then I've got three kids and a wife and dogs and I was like, man, I know things are going to be okay.

Yeah. It is. There's a moment of like, okay, I better start. Is the practical, like, I have to get a job to support myself, what's actually scarier? Is it that or is it my identity is congressman or congresswoman? One of 500 a decision maker important person. What's actually Scarier to have to face the job. Yeah, I think the job. Yeah, I didn't have a big problem You know, I did it 20 years

It was getting toxic. Yeah, it wasn't a great place mentally physically spiritually to be It wasn't a great place mentally, physically, spiritually to be. And so I wasn't like super upset about leaving that. But there was just the big unknown of like, okay, now what do you go do? I know I have skillsets, I know I have talent, I know I have knowledge base,

I know I know a lot of stuff that other people don't know. But where does that land? But it is interesting though, because everyone I talk to seems to not particularly like that job, right? Like they're not like, it's the greatest job on earth. And yet they're like petrified of losing. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

Like, and I think that, I think this isn't, it doesn't just have to be a discussion about politics in the sense that, I think a lot of people are that way. Like you hate your job, yet you're terrified of losing it. Yeah. Right? I think for a lot of those guys, they see it as the best job they're ever gonna have.

The most prestigious job they're ever gonna have. You have a staff that kisses your rear end all the time. You do have an element of the electorate that will kiss your rear end all the time. And you can insulate yourself from a lot of the negative if you want to. You know, where people are saying negative things, who cares, I'm not gonna go to their events.

I'm not gonna answer their questions. I'm not gonna do a town hall. So you can insulate yourself from it. And I think losing that, it's really good for your ego. I mean, like it's just inflates it, just a big pump. Well, it's like anytime you have a job or a position or whatever where you're very wanted, even if not everyone loves you,

but the position forces, as you said, the stats kissing the rear end, but also by definition, a big part of the job is people want things from you, right? Constituents want things from you, other coalitions want your vote on stuff. You're being constantly solicited. Like, will you do this for me?

So you get this sense, and again, I think this is common in a lot of professions, like where the media is asking you questions, right? So it's like, you feel like things center around you, and you're like irreplaceable, that you're like this important part of this thing that can't possibly operate without you. And then that kind of fuses into your identity

and then to leave it is to face the death of irrelevance or something. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. And then people ask you to speak, hey, can you come speak to my group? And we're gonna put you in front of 100 people and you could say whatever you want. Like, the guy would always say speak, hey, can you come speak to my group? And we're gonna put you in front of 100 people and you could say whatever you want.

Like, the guy would always say, what do you want me to talk about? And they're like, whatever you wanna talk about, just come. And I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. I feel that now it's like people, they not only fly me somewhere,

they not only put me in front of an audience, they not only pay me, but then they're like, and we have questions for you. Yeah. And that's not good for humility, right? That's not good for your sense of self because it's like, there's this thing that's puffing you up all the time.

And so that requires this work on yourself of like deflating yourself. Right, totally. Instead of the very natural thing, which is like, no, I deserve this. This is who I am. This says something about me. Right, totally. Instead of the very natural thing, which is like, no, I deserve this, this is who I am, this says something about me. Right, you start believing that you're in real trouble, and you always got that kind of stereotypical staffer,

oh, great speech, boss. I'm like, I stepped on it, it was terrible. I don't know, it was great though, you know, whatever. Well, that's a problem with leadership, right? How and when do you get any kind of honest or sincere feedback? Like, I noticed this, I've told this story before, but it was like, I'm backstage, I'm about to give a talk,

someone's going on before me, I'm terrified of the talk I'm having to give them, just going through my lines, practicing, and then the other person gets off stage and go, you did amazing, you did so good. I did not watch one second of their talk, right? Because I was doing my thing. And then I give my talk, I don't know how it goes,

but I know as soon as I get off stage, someone goes to me, you did amazing. And I go, of course. Even though I just one hour previous told someone something just to make them feel better or just to be nice, then do you have the ability to go, that's what people are doing to me? No, that's not how the mind works.

And so you get this, you start to increasingly live in a fantasy world and you have to always be on guard against it. Yeah, I think that's where the stillness, the meditation, the detachment, you know, I mean, the great example from stillness is the Kennedy, the guts to leave the room and let everyone else talk behind his back, not knowing what they're gonna say,

knowing those generals were like not happy with him, thought he was a coward and the whole nine yards, but knowing that that was gonna happen behind your back, but still having the kind of detachment and guts to be able to do it, I think that to me is really the key part of being a leader, is you gotta have that detachment. And also, yeah, definitely being a leader,

but also just being like a sane person in the world. Like I was talking about this, I was like, I had to go to this thing, or I was going to this thing, and I was like, suddenly I'm very nervous, and I was like, I had to go to this thing or I was going to this thing and I was like, something like very nervous. And I was like, why am I nervous? And I go, oh, I'm attending this as an attendee. Like, I chose to go to this, not like I'm one of the speakers or I'm one of the guests

or what, I'm just going as a person. And I realized, oh, like the norm is that I'm not the norm. And if I don't make decisions or have practices that counterbalance that, that's gonna be, that's a warping effect on your psyche and your sense of self because you're just always used to being not a regular person in the room,

but you are a regular person in the room. Just being you. Yeah. My wife, spouses have a very good skill. This is a very important part of this. It'd be like, so I had two funny stories. I remember one time I was on like MSNBC, Chris Matthews, and I'd been married now a couple years, whatever,

and I call my wife, I'm in D.C. and say, hey, I go, do you see me? She goes, no, what happened? I said, I was on Chris Matthews, hardball. And she says, oh, I missed it. I go, well, I guess the shine's off the apple here, because you're dating. She's, where do you want?

I want to watch it. I get the speech back home one time. I'm recording it for you. Yeah, yeah, I come back home. She's like, how'd the speech go? And I'm driving down the road to get to my house. She said, how'd the speech go? I said, crushed it, absolutely crushed it.

Standing ovation, that's why I'm late. I had signed in, taken pictures after. She goes, that's awesome, I'm really proud of you. Can you grab the garbage can on the way into the house? It's like those little things where you make fun of yourself and your relationship, but those are really important. Be like, okay, I'm going back home and there may be a diaper to change or real life stuff.

Yeah, I mean, my wife's very supportive, but it struck me one day that like 12 or 13 books is a lot to ask one person to read. Right? Like, so like, that's a lot to ask. So if my wife can't even do it, right? Like, and at a certain point she's like, oh, another one?

Awesome. You know? That's a lot to ask random strangers who have to pay for them. Right. So yeah, it can be this sort of helpful proxy. Like you're like, oh yeah, I was just on TV. Did you see it?

And she's like, I'm living my life, man. Like, I've got kids. Take care of your kids. Yeah, you're like, oh wait, you're a proxy for voters. You're a proxy for voters, you're a proxy for the general public, which is like, the world is not revolving around me and what I'm thinking about and my message. And then actually, yeah, it's really hard

to get people to buy stuff, to hear stuff, to listen to stuff, to follow stuff. Like, when you care about it, when it's you, it feels like it's the center of the universe. And it's so far from that, it's not even funny. Yeah, I mean, you feel like all the technology and obviously that social media stuff has taken that to the next level, right?

Totally, although I find this with authors, authors are like, I feel like I'm promoting too much. Like I'm telling, I'm talking about myself too much. And you're like, you're assuming that people are hanging on every word and not missing the vast majority of what you're like, you're assuming that people are hanging on every word and not missing the vast majority of what you're doing. So like you think like, well, I told people

I have a book coming out, you know? Right, right. And they didn't hear you, like they were busy. And so if you, and I think probably politicians make this mistake, you're like, I talk about this issue a lot. And it's like, maybe, or maybe none of it's landing. And you actually have to talk about it 500 times.

In the book I'm writing now, I'm talking about, I tell the story of, I can't pronounce his name, was it Senator Proxmire? Anyways, this Senator from Wisconsin or Minnesota or something, he realizes in the 1960s that the US never ratified the UN treaty against genocide. So he decides to get up one day and give a speech to the US Senate about this.

And he says, you know what? I'm gonna give a speech every day about this issue until it passes. And he thought it was like this oversight, like of course, maybe some political moment in time, but like, of course, obviously, two thirds of the Senate is gonna be anti-genocide. And he goes, you know,

maybe I have to give this speech one time, three, he gives the speech for 3,200 consecutive days. Oh my God. Like 3,000 speeches before it ultimately lands. Wow. Right. And so again, you think like it's to take bringing up one time, two times three, it's like 1000 times or thousands of times because people are busy because people don't care because people have reservations because they have defenses up and all this stuff. So, weirdly, you'd think like this humility or this sense of like, I'm not that important,

people don't care, you know, you'd think that would like make you less successful or whatever, but it actually is that humility is actually really important because when you come from a place of reality, when you come from a place of not assuming that you have all this bait and support and understanding and everyone's following what you're doing on bait and breath.

It gives you both a freedom to experiment and screw up and go in different directions. But it also gives you like your marching orders. Like, oh, you're gonna have to work really fucking hard on this. It's not just yours because you mentioned it one time or you think it's important. Yeah, I mean, there's not three networks

and a couple of magazines and a couple major newspapers that circulate stuff. Yeah, and you're not as newsworthy as you think you are. You know what I mean? Like very few people and things can move markets, can make headlines, and you're probably not one of them. And when you start from that assumption, it makes you work for it, as opposed to like,

I told them about it and then it didn't fly off the shelves. What happened? And it's like, they didn't hear you. Yeah, you gotta grind. There's no doubt. I mean, anybody who's done, you know, statewide office or in Ohio, right? There's 10 media markets, 11 media markets.

I gave the same speech over and over and over and over. Same exact one. Same laugh lines. You're like a comedian. You know, you just gotta, you can tell this story, that story, you may switch the stories, but it's the same thing. And you know, it penetrates.

You feel like you're repeating yourself, but no, it's new because there's no people, there's none of the same people in the audience, and if they are, they weren't paying attention that much the first time and so it actually does feel new to them. I always, you know, I'm a big Dave Matthews fan and I went to a lot of concerts, still go to a lot

of concerts and one concert a few years ago, I thought, how does he sing these same songs over and over and over? I mean, if you've been to a Dave Matthews concert, nobody's having more fun in the joint than Dave Matthews That's right. I'm like, how does he do this? How does he sing these songs and I came to the realization because the songs mean something to him Yes, like he writes his own music. He writes his own lyrics

And they mean something to him. So when I was doing the Senate thing, I made sure I was telling stories they mean something to him. So when I was doing the Senate thing, I made sure I was telling stories that actually like resonated with me first, as opposed to like, I knew they'd resonate. And I would tell these stories about my grandfather, literally would like get teared up at almost every time I told the story.

Because it meant something to me. And I think when you're in that space, then it's not exhausting to keep, it's actually energizing. Yeah, and you come to understand it in different ways, probably the thousandth time you play the song. Yeah. And it must be weird as a musician,

it's like you write this song when you're 22, and now you're 52 playing the same song. Yeah. You have this weird relationship with it, because like who, you think about it differently. What's that famous Cat Stevens song? Is it Cat's Cradle, the one about the father and the son? I just heard this interesting version of that song

that he did. So he recorded that obviously when he was young about being the sort of young man arguing like with his father, right? And then he played it live like a bunch of times. And then he just re-recorded the song, but he took the kid version from when he recorded it originally,

and he mashed it with him singing the father's parts now, because he's the age of his father when he wrote the song. Wow, nice. And you go, okay, wow, like you have now flipped sides in this thing. And so you can imagine just for him as a performer, he has a different relationship with the material, those things.

Now he has his own kids, now he's been alive longer. Now maybe he looks back at his younger self with a certain amount of cringe as we all do. But like now it's a totally different, it's the same song, but it's a totally different song and the nuances, you know, it's not maybe as immediately obvious as you think, but there is a nuance to it.

Well, that happens when you listen to it. Yeah. The song yourself that you listen to is, you know, I did a bunch of Grateful Dead stuff in college and we went to a cover band concert with me and a couple of my college buddies a few months back and you hear a couple of those songs and you're like, ah. Yes, I've had a 20 year, 30 year relationship with them.

That's what Jerry meant. Yeah. You know, it's powerful. Well, I mean, I think you get this with the Stoics too. Like every time you go back and read a book, you see something different in it, even though it's the same, it's exactly the same. Yeah.

And so there's power power not just in reading something powerful once, but going back to it as you change. Yeah. And the world changes and our understanding of the author changes and certain references land with you in ways that they didn't before. I think it's cool. I have certain books that I had to get in high school

to read for class, like the great Gatsby or something. And I kept that book. So like I have not just, I'm not just reading a book I read in high school, but I'm reading the book that I read in high school. So I can see like the food that I spilled on it when I was 16.

I can see the thing I highlighted or the note that I took down that the teacher had mentioned. And so it's like you're having this conversation with a younger version of yourself. And that's like a really beautiful thing about reading is that you're different and the world is different even though the material is the same. It's powerful. I'm Afua Hirsch. I'm Peter Frankopan. And in our podcast, Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in

history. This season, we delve into the life of Alan Turing. Why are we talking about Alan Turing, Peter? Alan Turing is the father of computer science and some of those questions we're thinking about today around artificial intelligence. Turing was so involved in setting and framing what some of those questions we're thinking about today around artificial intelligence. Turing was so involved in setting and framing what some of those questions were but he's also interesting for lots of other reasons Afro. He had such a fascinating life he was unapologetically gay

at a time when that was completely criminalized and stigmatized and from his imagination he created ideas that have formed a very physical, practical foundation for all of the technology on which our lives depend. And on top of that, he's responsible for being part of a team that saved millions, maybe even tens of millions of lives because of his work during the Second World War, using maths and computer science to code break. So join us on Legacy, wherever you get your podcasts. code break. So join us on Legacy wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Alice Levine.

And I'm Matt Ford. And we're the presenters of British Scandal. And in our latest series, Hitler's Angel, we tell the story of scandalous beauty Diana Mosley, British aristocrat, Mitford sister and fascist sympathiser. Like so many great British stories, it starts at a lavish garden party. Diana meets the dashing fascist Oswald Mosley. She's captivated by his politics but also by his very good looks. It's not a classic rom-com story but when she falls in love with Mosley, she's on a collision course with her family, her friends and her whole country.

There is some romance though. The couple tied the knot in a ceremony organised by a great uncelebrated wedding planner, Adolf Hitler. So it's less Notting Hill, more Nuremberg. When Britain took on the Nazis, Diana had to choose between love or betrayal. This is the story of Diana Moseley on her journey from glamorous socialite to political prisoner. Listen to British Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so yeah, so you don't have the job that you had for 20 years and you're having to figure out what you're going to do next.

But I'm curious going back to that, like you said it didn't affect you much, but we talk about how power corrupts. How does having a job like that change a person? I think we covered that really. I mean, the important, you become, you think you're the most important thing. Yeah. You know, and yeah, you think you can bark an order

and your staff will do it. Yeah. And all of a sudden you can bark an order and your staff will do it. And all of a sudden you don't have any staff. And your wife says, I don't work for you. You know, I can't, you gotta work for you. You gotta make your own appointments or whatever. Right, no, it's, I mean, it was like, that's the joke for the last like year when I screw up like a Zoom call or something,

I'm like, unemployed congressman, no staff, my bad, you know, cause you just, you get, you do get insulated. And you can see too how, like when you're looking at the current political dynamic, how you can get so insulated the higher up you go, you know, cause it's like, you're insulated as a congressperson. Well, you go up the ladder,

you get more detached from reality, more detached from real people. Even though the impact of your decisions is greater. A thousand times more, you know? And I think that's why you look at a guy like a Bill Clinton, like underneath all of the whatever is like a guy who just felt, you know, he just understood. You look at a Kennedy, they were suffering, he lost, he lost his sister.

He's in constant physical pain. He's in pain all the time. You know, he- Lincoln. Lincoln, suffering, depression. Yeah. You know, I think you look at these guys who, even Teddy Roosevelt, who in many instances was crazy. Yeah, he's a maniac.

A complete maniac, but lost his wife, lost his daughter. He'd done manual labor. He was a human. Yeah, well, I loved the Churchill, which I knew, but I never, he was a bricklayer. Yeah, he joined the bricklayers. I mean, you wanna talk about grounding yourself. Sure.

Amazing, amazing. And also, I felt like the Churchill piece, like the laying in bed, like, he's running his own race here. Like, no one's like, hey, you gotta get up and you gotta get to work and you know. I love the line from Reagan when they said, sir, seven o'clock, when he got to the presidency,

sir, seven o'clock, your military attache will be here with the global threats that you have to read. He goes, what time? He said, seven o'clock. He says, well, he's gonna be waiting a while because I'll be done about nine. You know? Right, because he's, unlike a lot of politicians,

he was like a, he was a movie star, he was working movie star hours before. You know? And now he's like. Yeah, exactly. Now he's got a job. Now he's got a job. Now he's got a job. He bought himself, he won himself a job.

Yeah, yeah, but he was governor. Like, he knew how he wanted to run the shop and you know. I was thinking about that because like, if you read about Robert Moses, the power broker, it's like, here you have this guy making decisions about bridges and tunnels and roads. He's never sat in traffic in his life, right? He's got a chauffeured car, there's sirens.

And so yeah, the problem isn't just that it gets bad for you personally that power corrupts. It's that when you live in that bubble, you're being asked to make decisions on behalf of people who live in the opposite of that bubble. And that's the problem with it. It's like, how can you do good for people if you don't know what life is like?

Yeah, and that's why people don't vote issues. You know, they don't vote the 10-point policy plan. They vote, do you know me? Yeah. You know, do you understand me? Do I think you understand me? You could be bullshitting me. That's the problem, yeah.

But I think, well, yeah, I mean, that's clearly the problem today. You get somebody really high functioning bullshitter and that's the problem. But then, you know, I think you get these leaders that I think they understand. I think, you know, I'm not sure. Or I really like them, you know?

I mean, Bill Clinton looks so human. He was a flawed guy, but he cared. He seemed like he really cared. Obama was playing basketball. White mom, black dad, grandparents raised him. That's a compelling story. I remember being at his, I think it was his first DNC convention speech and there was this video about him and his mom, single mom, and she would wake

him up early to study and he'd complain, because he's a kid, right? And she says, do you think I want to be up this early Buster, making sure you study? And you look at him and you're like, man, that's some. Yeah, you're still a product of that. You're not that far from it. Yeah. Yeah.

That's cool stuff. Yeah, Paul, I posted this thing the other day. So I live out here in the country and it's great. I love it in so many ways. And then there's just things about it that remind you why we conceived of society. Do you know what I mean? Like when I'm driving, I live on a dirt road.

I'm driving down my dirt road that me and my neighbors have to maintain. There's no like, the county doesn't care about it, the city doesn't take care of it, there's no homeowners association. And first off, just the coordination of like voluntary contributions to take care of a road. And then you got a collective action problem on your hands.

You got free riders, you got people who abuse it, and then you got the people who do all the work. And then you also have, which is what I was posting about, it's like I'm pulling up and it's like, who threw a couch on the side of the road? Like somebody just dumped it on the side of the couch. And then because the couch was there and I didn't do anything about the couch,

now someone drives by and they go, oh, nobody's checking this. So they start dumping like dead animals. Oh, yeah. There's a dead dog and a dead goat. And like, I had zero idea what, but this has been happening for years and years and years. And anyway, so I posted about, I was like, I went and I just took care of it, I cleaned it up.

And people were like, why didn't you call the police? Why didn't you call the county? And it was like, because that's not how it works here. It would be wonderful if they cared, but they don't. And I think that's maybe one, most people live in parts of the country with semi-functioning governments or functioning governments.

And we take for granted that people invented these institutions and sacrificed and maintained them. And it's crazy to me the way that we just assume they'll exist in perpetuity and are like the natural, no, the natural order of things is like state of nature chaos, people killing each other, right? Government is not great, but it's better than the alternative.

Civilized, semi, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but just like these institutions were made by trial and error in response to problems. Like I heard someone say like, tradition is the solution to a problem we've forgotten about. Right, like, and you could argue institutions are often that same way, norms are that way. Like we had a problem, somebody was beating the system And you could argue institutions are often that same way. Norms are that way.

We had a problem, somebody was beating the system this way or getting away with this or causing this problem where there was some tragedy that shocked everyone out of the status quo. And we came up with an institution, a regulatory board, a law, an office. And then now that seems like, well, what's that there for? Let's get in my way.

And it's like, you forgot the chaos that was in that place before. So everyone's always complaining about how things are, but they don't, very few of us, I think, have experience of what it's like to live in the absence of those things. You see that in government, obviously, a lot. And I think we're stuck in,

and I think that's part of the problem. We are stuck in, the culture's got us stuck. It's like Medicare, right? Jesus, crime and this thing, bureaucratic, none of that, you know, it's like, okay. People were dying in their houses. Yeah, I mean, you know, grandpa just like died at 60, you know?

Now my mom's 80, you know? My grandparents live to be 90. Okay, I don't mind paying my taxes. Now, so now you got a political situation where you have one side says, we gotta cut it. And then the other side says, no. And so now you have a broken system where we spend two and a half times more

than any other industrialized country and get worse results, right? So that's where we're stuck right now. Same with education, right? An education system built on an industrial model, food system built on an industrial model, egg, like what are we doing to the soil? This is insanity, we're putting oil on it,

we're putting pesticides on it and glyphosate. Everything's made with corn or this. All the processed food. Now it's screwing up our microbiome and our gut. Everything's made with corn or this. Yeah, all the processed food. Now it's screwing up our microbiome and our gut. Everything's injected with shit. I mean, yeah, it's crazy. So now, I mean, I think that's the problem is that taxpayers are saying, I know this isn't working,

but I don't know what we should do. Well, yeah, and that's, I think when you study history, what an important part of that is realizing that this is all made up at some point, right? Iteratively, like there are problems and then people came up with solutions. Not usually perfect solutions, but compromise sort of majoritarian solutions, right?

And that our system is designed to be resistant to radical, fast change, but it is designed to change and intended to change. Right. Right. And so, like, not that long ago, it was possible to amend the Constitution. It was possible to add new states.

It was impossible to add new members of Congress. Right. Right. And so things were, seemed, States, it was impossible to add new members of Congress. Right? And so things were seen, like when things are growing and changing, then we're all like expanding. There's potentially enough for everyone. Right? Right, when things are, no, this is how they are

and they don't change, then we're arguing over like who has control, who has power, how can we keep as much for myself? You know what I mean? Scarcity mentality. Yeah, of course. But seeing government as, was it Barney Frank who said government is just the name

we made up for things we do together? That sounds like a Barney Frank. The idea that government is this thing that we do as opposed to this thing that we have or that like is outside of us, maybe that's really the problem. Well, the culture has shifted since we lost the greatest generation.

And I mean, that was an imperfect generation in a lot of ways, but obviously courageous and bad asses in a lot of ways too. And forced through a system together. So there was a, even if they were diverse, there was norms and a homogeneity. Yeah. In the shared experience.

Of collective action that worked. We got through the depression, we got through the war. Yeah. And to the point where interstate highway, you can go on and on. Yeah. But then you, what emerges from that is a president from that generation, right?

Who is a badass, good looking, charismatic, right? This is the best, we're the best generation, we won the war, this is our guy. To the point where when civil rights became an issue, that he, you know, a lot of people criticized him for not acting sooner. Yes, this is Eisenhower? Who are you talking about?

This is Kennedy. Okay, Kennedy, okay. This is Kennedy. He says, he goes on TV, he says, enough's enough. This is wrong. And what's he say? He says, the Bible and the constitution, the two founding documents.

And it resonates with the country. Didn't fix everything, but he was like, he had the courage to do it, but he came from a generation that he knew he could challenge them and say, would you put yourself in these people's shoes? And then you get Lyndon Johnson, who actually knows how the parliamentary system works

and makes it real. Yes, yeah. So that was the great society, right? And he parlayed Kennedy's death in a lot of ways. And that was the greatest generation. Then they started dying off. Vietnam, the assassinations, deindustrialization, all of these things, all these promises

that were supposed to be out there, right? They lied about Kennedy's death, lied about Vietnam, lied about taking care of vets, lied about your job's gonna be fine, lied about the middle class. Add that up over into the 80s, greed is good. Now we go into the boom and bust economy, the whole nine yards,

you start to get the separation of the culture. When you also, you pair that with what are the big successes that show people that it works also, right? Like you mentioned, okay, we get highways, we get landing on the moon, we get winning a world war. You know, you get years of peace and prosperity. So you're like, okay, it's not perfect.

I don't love it, all of it, but like, it works. I think about if I'm, you know, if I'm born in the year 2000, so I'm 23 right now, show me what's worked. You know what I mean? Show me the system not fucking me over repeatedly, not plundering my future in the Middle East, in real estate bubbles or, you know. Student loans.

Yeah, exactly. I get why I'd be cynical and pessimistic and not bought in. And this is the jujitsu move that I think collectively we have to do is that you take that anxiety and say, that's why we need you. Yeah. Because.

What problems are we gonna solve? Yeah, let me tell you how really fucked up this is. You know, and I'll give you my life too from born in 1973, right? Yeah. And the promises that were made never kept to a lot of working class people, whether they're white or black or brown

or men or women, right? And so I think we have to emerge from this with a massive call to action. Yeah. And that's why, you know, I think the work to emerge from this with a massive call to action. And that's why I think the work you're doing, I think Gervais is obviously my buddy, like what these sports psychologists are doing, what coaches are now doing at such an elite level, like that to me is how we start to shift the culture, right?

And start saying, okay, you can complain, right? You know, Kennedy's got a great line. He said, you know, it's not about assessing blame for the past, it's about recognizing that we all need to take responsibility for the future. If you let that go, you know, open up a quarrel between the present and the past, you lose the future, is Churchill.

That's the same as what the Stoics are saying. It's the same with what Gervais is saying. It's the same with your face is saying, don't give a shit about what other people are saying about you, come on, this is the path. And I think we need a leader who's gonna help us like, well, that's interesting, right? Organize ourselves in that mindset. What facets of society really give a person hope?

Like where are the institutions like thriving and doing well? Like probably never been a higher level of performance in sport, right? It's unbelievable. Or and been more sort of unified and diverse and representative of like the culture and humanities of sports.

And then I have found as I've been lucky enough to give lots of different talks to different military groups, colleges, et cetera. You meet like these young people that are like enlisted or in the academies and you're like, fuck. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? You're like, this is the best.

You're like, this is incredibly diverse. Especially, it's like, you'd think it'd be all dudes. It's not, it's like the young women that you meet, they're like the next generation of fighter pilots and submarine officer. You're just like, oh, this is great. This is so far from what you're hearing at like elite colleges and you know,

the nonsense that's going on there. It's like, these are like professional, these are people who are 18, 19 years old that know what they wanna do with their life. They know that they wanna make a positive contribution to humanity. They've been through stuff, and you're just like, that's,

and then the only other one that I would say is like, look, we just faced a terrible virus that killed millions of people, and within a year, and it could have been sooner, we cured that thing. Not everyone took advantage of that cure, and there was a lot of craziness and backlash and whatever, but like, that actually when we take the gloves off and we decide to collaborate and get serious,

actual resources behind like solving problems, like we do and we'll probably have malaria vaccine soon and cancer vaccine soon. And like, so those are maybe like three things that I go, okay, the world's not totally fucked. Yeah, I agree. I mean. So how do we take lessons from those and apply it elsewhere?

Yeah, how do you get it out of the ivory tower? Not that sports is in an ivory tower, but I wrote a piece for a buddy of mine who's starting a Institute for boys and men to try to address the crisis with men and boys especially. And I said, we need coaches. Yeah, sure. Like I can't think of anybody in my life,

my parents were divorced, my dad was not around for a few years and who had more impact on like toughening me up. Like never physically, but like in your face. Like I had old school Polish football and basketball coaches from Toledo, Ohio. Like they would scare the shit out of you. But when I went in the politics and people say,

oh my God, these town halls are getting out of control. How do you handle them? I'm like, coach Dzezinski. No, totally. So how do you get that out? Well, and you look at like, Andy Reid, nonwithstanding, you look at like this generation of coaches, they're in great shape. You know, they're not like screaming in people's faces,

not that he does that, but you know what I mean? You meet like younger coaches, not like what our parents' coaches were like. And you're like, they're in there with the trenches, they're working out with the team, they're like, they're bringing in authors and they're watching videos and they're teaching them like the mental side of it.

You know, like you realize, oh yeah, what it means to be a coach now is not like this chalkboard with Xs and Os. They're like, guys, you're not sleeping enough. And they're bringing in nutrition. They're thinking about this whole picture. And because their mission is like, how do I make you successful at what you do?

And it's not like the last mile of like doing it on the quarter on the field is like in some ways the least important and the place you have the least impact. So they've gone way further up the chain in terms of like where they put effort and energy and you just that's what It's not like yeah I mean you just look at what humans are capable of doing now and you're like that Wasn't possible. Yeah, not that long ago. How much of that tracks back to

Wooden. Yeah, I mean I read a bunch of wooden books, but also data I mean like it's not like we didn't know that the three pointer was worth more than the two pointer. But they were like, oh no, no, if you can be, if you can be, if you can shoot a certain percentage from the three point line, it's transformatively different from the game

than trying to get it in. It used to be you'd have to have Shaquille O'Neal in the paint and you get him the ball and he with brute force shoves it in there. And like it took data. Now it's Katelyn Clark from 32 Feet. Exactly. And that's finesse and skill and strategy.

It's also strength but it's a different kind of strength. And it opened, I mean, just think about it, it opened the game up to people who couldn't have played the game before, right? And so yeah, we should, the exciting part would be what are other facets of society that you could transform that way? How do you get that in our schools?

Yeah. You know, I was, we just moved a new school district. So I don't know if you know Brian Kite or not, but he's got one of the best mental approaches to the game. It's called E plus R equals O. Event happens plus response equals outcome. So I'm like, a couple of years I'm falling to the guy. I got a few guys in my feed. I got you, I got Gervais, I got him. And I'm like, this guy has figured it out. This is unbelievable, right? And so we go to a new school in Columbus with my kid First week paper comes home look down just going through it My wife usually does it but I look down says E plus R equals L I go you got to be fucking kidding me

I'm like 50 and just wrapping my head around this stuff. He's nine Yeah, and they're teaching this in the school. So he was with Urban Meyer at Ohio State. So he taught it then it worked its way into the Dublin school district. And I just thought, man, that is how you do it. Yeah. Right, that's how you do it.

Teach the stoic, cause everyone's out. Pooh Pooh is the classics, Pooh Pooh Greek, the Greeks, the Romans, all that stuff. It's like, like you were saying about traditions. Like you go back to these touchstones that are so informative and like teach us stuff in the schools, man. This is amazing.

You can't just cancel stuff for being complicated and get rid of it, unless you have something better to replace it with. And if you do, I'm all about it. I'm all for opening up the canon and adding things, contextualizing it. But there's a reason most of these works have endured. And also like, you know,

actually when you look at the ancients, you get, you see an immense amount of diversity, of thought, of location, of even of race, you know? And when you go, oh, they have something to teach me and there's a reason they have taught people for thousands of years, and the sooner you get taught these ideas, the more they can just become part

of how you think about the world. Yeah, we shouldn't leave these strategies about overcoming adversity, you're introducing them to a rookie in the NFL. Like you want all nine-year-olds to get it and you wanna get it early because like sports are supposed to be like a metaphor. Yeah.

You know, a training ground for actual life. 100% and it works. Like you look at kids who graduate, was on the field for the Ohio State game, senior day. And I was just watching the seniors come through. You don't know who three quarters of the kids are, right? You'd hire every one of them. If you were starting a business, I want that kid

and that kid, you made it five years through Ohio State football. I don't care what your grades were, you're coming to work for me. Well, it's the same thing, yeah, when they hire vets. It's like, oh no, you're like a nuclear physicist. You know what I mean? It's not a super high rank,

but the government spent millions of dollars training this person in a set of skills, put them through a culture, taught them a set of values. This person can figure out how to do whatever your accounting company does. Do you know what I mean? But they have a bunch of things that some random, you know, random other applicant is not gonna have.

Think about the resiliency of a kid. You always get the highlight, you know, what athlete overcame whatever to be a star on the field and there they are and they're on Sports Illustrated. Think about the resiliency of a kid who never played. But you stuck it out five years at a big 10, top elite college. You got resiliency.

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It's funny, actually, John Snyder, who's the GM of the Seahawks, he just ordered a bunch of copies of Ego's Enemy because that's sort of been one of their pillars of that organization, is the idea of not letting ego get in the way. But I remember one time I asked him, I was like, so when you're like evaluating talent, and it's harder when you're a great team, you'd think it'd be easy to get people, but it's harder because you have the worst draft picks, right, and you have less cap room

because you have to pay all these great guys who know what they're worth, like a lot, right? So every year it's harder to get new talent. So I was like, what do you, as a GM, what do you look for when you're evaluating talent? And he's like, he's saying, this is gonna be really hard. Not that it's the hardest thing they've ever done. He's like, I don't want it to be the hardest thing

they've ever done. Do you know what I'm saying? He's like, I want them to have overcome some form of adversity before. He's like, I want them to have had to redshirt a year because they got hurt. Or I want them to have gotten to redshirt a year because they got hurt. Or I want them to have gotten arrested and have to clean up their act

because I want them to have had their cage rattled and then they figured it out. And so this idea that like you're somehow disadvantaged because of what you went through is the wrong way to think about it. Like the greatest generation is great because they went through the depression. What's the quote about fire?

Every lot, it's a, I don't remember. Yeah, Marge Drozd says, you know what you throw on top of a fire is fuel for the fire. Fuel for the fire, yeah. Actually, I'll give you this, I bought a bunch of these. You know what this is?

This is pine cone. Seems like an ordinary pine cone, right? Yeah. But so, pine cone, right? You see them when they fall right off the tree, it's all closed up, right? There's a species of pine tree that it only opens up

like this when exposed to fire. Like it can't open up exposed to natural temperatures. Like only fire unlocks it. This lady, she sells them on Etsy, she just like puts them in her oven, you know? That's how it looks. But the idea, the idea is like you need it. You need the adversity, it can unlock something in you.

And so it is, I mean, obviously it's great that the world is safe, that we protect our kids, that we push negative influences away. But if you wrap them in bubble wrap and you make everything easy, when they experience real adversity, they're not gonna know what to do with it because they haven't built that muscle.

They haven't been unlocked. Right, it's a constant thickening of your skin and your emotional state. Totally, totally. And yeah, I mean, one way to think about, yeah, this younger generation is, yeah, like we have fucked them and events have also fucked them.

But maybe, hopefully it's unlocking like an incredible strength, a sense of purpose, a sense of vision, you know, maybe they're not gonna be caught up in these nonsense culture war issues because they're like, no, no, no, we don't wanna be Gen Z because we're the last fucking generation.

You know? Yeah, right. And hopefully that's what happens. And I thought about that during COVID, people were like, oh, our kids are never gonna recover. And it's like, if you talk to your grandparents, they're not like, oh, the depression was the worst. My life was never the same.

Yeah. They're like, oh yeah, I remember. You know, like it was this formative thing that shaped them because no one told them you're broken forever as a result of what you saw in Guadalcanal. They were like, you're incredible for what you experienced there. Immigrant families who came over

and did that struggle before the depression even happened. Yeah, or just someone who came over now from Afghanistan or Ukraine or, you know, Guatemala. That's what's so weird to me also, this thing we have about immigrants, like, oh, we're not sending our best. The people who are leaving are the best people. And they've always been the best people.

And America was built on the backs of those people. The people who stay, who don't have the tenacity or the ability or the resilience to cross oceans or borders or rivers and start over with nothing in a place they don't speak the language, it's unfathomable what immigrants go through. Yeah, and that's in the DNA of the country and that's directly related to our economic prowess over the years

Yeah, you know and now we let you come to our schools and we send you back That's a great idea. Yeah, no, no, we should be like, oh you came here from from China and you went before Here's a passport. Come on in. Here's a passport. You don't have to go back. Yeah, you know, we want you We want like companies want to recruit talent. Yeah, they want to recruit hustlers and hard workers and that GM if he was in the HR at a major corporation You'd be like that's kind of guy we want. Yeah, right the military would Like I saw this meme the other day. It was like a it was these It was these it was like deported veterans and they're like, how the fuck is that a constituency?

It was these deported veterans. And they were like, how the fuck is that a constituency? Like, do you know what I mean? They're like, what? Yeah, yeah. And these vets come over, they're not even, they just fight for us. Yeah. Because it's the shining city on the hill.

Yeah, you wanna be an American, enlist in the Marines? We'd love to have you. Come on in. Yeah, no, like I wrote Encouraged Calling, I talked a lot about Frank Serpico, who I quite frankly thought was a fictional character for most of my life, so I actually read about him. You know, the Al Pacino character.

And in the beginning of the book, he tells a story of like Serpico's mom. Like Serpico's mom comes over to America from Italy, pregnant, she's supposed to be met by family. She loses her kid on the boat, has a miscarriage, loses the baby on the boat, comes to America. No one's there to greet her. She ends up in a hospital and has to figure it out

for two fucking years before anyone figures out where she is or like she can reunite with her family, she gets like a job in a shoe factory. And yeah, you just think about the sheer tenacity and creativity and resilience and like dedication that like immigrants and the whole discussion discussed me. Yeah, and the, well, again, that's another polarized, right? Either no or let everybody in.

Yes. And I think the problem is most of the country is pretty much saying, yeah, come on in, fine, we're all for immigrants. But you do have to get in line unless there's like a huge refugee issue or you're coming from whatever. We're good, but like, have to get in line unless there's like a huge, you know refugee issue or you're coming from Whatever. Yeah

We're good. But like that's not the conversation that's happening, right? It's like get out or come on in. Yes, and there's no so the nuance that's I hope about this next generation It's like can we talk about this? Are we allowed to talk about this without hurting anybody's feelings? Like let's have a real conversation. I had Jonathan Haidt in here and he wrote that book, The Coddling of the American Mind. He said there's these three great untruths that we tell young people.

The first is what doesn't kill you makes you weaker. So that basically like bad things happen to you, break you. Which obviously isn't true. The definition of stilicism is like, no, adversity makes you better if you let it. And then number two is like, always trust your feelings. You know, like if you feel it, it's right. And of course, like we're walking biases

and prejudices and mistakes. And in fact, you wanna test every one of your feelings and that most of the time you don't solve issues emotionally or based on the passions, you have to get rational and whatever. And then the last one is like, the world is divided into good people and bad people. And it's actually much more complicated than that.

And it's like, you mentioned immigration, right? The solution is that Congress comes together and compromises and says, here's how we're gonna fix the immigration system in a way that both of those extremes can live with, and probably both are slightly unhappy with. Yeah, it's like a divorce. Yeah, that's what the system is designed to do.

And the problem is when either side is either in denial that a problem exists or thinks that they should get everything they want on this issue. Yeah, yeah, I had this funny joke on the campaign trail because it was like, that's the culture. Now you got to agree 100% with somebody, right? 100% with your congressman, 100% senator, president, whatever, 100%. And I would say to the crowds, I said, people like this all the time.

And I would ask them, are any of you married? And they would laugh. It was one of my, and I'd be like, my wife and I, if we have 10 conversations in one day, if we agree on five, we crack a bottle of wine and celebrate how great our marriage is going, right? But this culture is all or nothing. And the sad part is about the immigration thing, not to get political, but the Senate did do that.

Yes, no, I know. It was incredible. James Langford, who I served in the house with from Oklahoma, great guy, camp counselor, right? Christian, camp counselor, real Christian. Yeah. You know, really a follower of Jesus. Said, we need to fix this, sits down,

works it out with Chris Murphy and a crew. Possibly at the expense of his political career. Maybe, we will find out, right? And all of a sudden, the leader of the party comes in and says, nope, that will not benefit me politically nine months from now. Yes. Incredible that that would ever happen,

that you can't find another issue to campaign on that would solve this huge problem for everyone else. You have to, you're gonna be the one, talk about having to be the most important person, you know? The marriage one I use, it's like, I see people talk about issues or debate about things, and I go, like, does your spouse, like, if you go, hey, I don't like it when you do this,

or I don't like that, do they let you go, well, so-and-so's doing it, or, like, do they let you get away with this what-about-ism nonsense? No, you have to respond to what they just said. It would be so obvious that the person is evading the issue and that they are essentially admitting that they are wrong by pointing out an instance that somebody else did it

that they don't like. And yet we just accepted as a society, what aboutism as an effective response in discussions big and small. So how do we change that? I mean, what's your view? Yeah, it's nuts. It's absolutely nuts. I don't know if we change it, but I do think, I think the first part of Stoicism would be like, fuck the system. How are you going to comport yourself as an individual?

And that Senator you mentioned who's like, I'm gonna try to solve this problem. I don't control whether someone's gonna step in and screw it up. I don't control whether my own party's gonna support it. I don't control whether the media respects what I'm doing. I'm gonna do what I think is the right thing. Or if I lose my job.

Yeah, right, exactly. Here's the standards that I hold myself to. To me, that's like the first step in life is going, I set my standards for how I'm gonna behave. Here's the code of conduct for my profession, for my job, what the market accepts, what the governing body accepts, what my boss notices is all irrelevant. If you told me, hey, Ryan, your books would sell twice

as much and you only have to work half as hard on them, I'd be like, so? That I don't work as hard, to work half as hard on them. I'd be like, so? That I don't work as hard, like, I'm not working hard on them and putting what I put into them to get compensated for that out of the back end. This is my respect for the craft and this is what, do you know what I'm saying? And like in business, do you have certain positions

have fiduciary responsibilities, you know? right and you have to you go like hey? I can't get away that I'm a fiduciary or I sworn oath right you we need I think the the starting on this problem is The decision to go Look my profession is a mess like no one's stepping up But like here's how I'm gonna comport myself inside that, whether it's recognized or not. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally.

And that gets back to the education piece and just teaching character education or ethics back, got rid of ethics, right? Got rid of shop class, got rid of like home ec, all these things that teach you how to actually live your life, change your tire, balance your checkbook. Yeah, Steve Jobs, you know, talks about how he learned from his adopted father who was a carpenter, you know,

like how you do the back of the drawer matters, even though no one sees it. Like you learn, people who do certain like crafts or professions, they have these standards that like, when they explain them to a lay person in the crowd, it makes no sense. But that's how you have to think about it.

Not just, not just because ultimately it contributes to quality, but that's like, if you're someone who cuts corners, who wins it as a carpenter, you're gonna hurt yourself. You're not gonna care about what you're doing. You have to go like, this matters. Like there's that quote in the Bible, like he who is diligent in his business stands before kings.

The idea that like, if you take what you do seriously and you're like, this fucking matters, and like these are the standards that my profession dictates and I dictate. And like every bit of external recognition or success beyond that is extra, but this is the universe that I operate in. You have to do that.

The athlete that says, I was gonna do 10 laps, but nobody's looking, so I'm gonna do nine. Like that athlete loses. You have to have those standards that you respect. You don't even need a coach to motivate you. Yeah, you have to be, ultimately, you have to be self-motivated

because results are not certain. Results take longer than you think. If you're doing sit-ups because you need to see the abs growing, you're gonna stop doing doing sit-ups because you need to see the abs growing, you're gonna stop doing the sit-ups. First off, it's probably not gonna happen, but if it does happen, it's gonna be way further in the future than you think.

You have to be able to enjoy the workout now, or just you said you were gonna do 50 and you did 50. That's the reward. Right, right. Self-motivation. Yeah. So the expectation has to change. Yes, yeah.

Collective expectation from industry leaders, politicians, whoever. Well, I mean, what do we tell kids? We tell kids you do good in school so then you can get into another school. Right. And then if you do well in school, so then you can get into another school. And then if you do well in that school, then you will get a career that pays you well.

You know what I mean? And if you're a kid, you're like, this sounds like a series of weird, untrue assumptions, and maybe even a racket, you know? Like potentially a fucking racket. It is a racket. It's the only debt you can take on that you can't discharge in bankruptcy, right? So it is a racket. It's the only debt you can take on that you can't discharge in bankruptcy, right?

So it is a racket, you know? And instead of going like, no, you do good in school because it's good to do good at anything that you do. And if you're not gonna do good at it, don't do it. Do you know what I mean? So the ability to make people intrinsically motivated into value doing what they do because they're doing it is like, I think the most,

your kid could have terrible grades, but if you've taught them how to try and care, that's a way more important lesson, I think. And do something you're passionate about, you're excited about. You gotta go do this or you gotta go do that because that excited about, yeah, you know, not, you got to go do this, or you got to go do that. Because that's what the neighbors want you to do, or that's what your mom or dad wants you to do. Yeah, you know,

yeah. And teaching that. I love Joseph Campbell. Yeah. You just ask the hero's journey to decide to be great at something. Right. And what you decide you want to be great at? Yeah, you know, not with mommy or daddy wants you to be great at. Right. And what you decide you want to be great at? Yeah, you know, not with mommy or daddy want you to be great at. Sure. And to have the courage to be able to do that. And to surround yourself, I think with people who say, Yeah, do it. Yes. How can I help you? Yeah, I'm on the team. Yeah, my bags are packed. Ever listen to Jimmy Valvano stuff? Yeah, he

has this great speech where his dad would say, old Italian guy, when he was, I don't know if he was at Rutgers or wherever, he's like, we're going to the tournament. Dad, we're going to the tournament, you know, Jimmy V. And his dad would say, my bags are packed. You tell me, I'll be there. It's earlier than that.

Do you know what happened? His dad, he went to his dad and said, I wanna be college basketball coach. And his dad called him in to his room like a couple days later and he goes, see what's on the bed? And Jimmy says, your suitcases. And he goes, yeah, they're packed.

And he goes, why? And he goes, for when you're in the final four. Like imagine what it would feel like to be a kid and have your parent tell you that they believe in you that way. Yeah, it's incredible. It would be, that's the greatest gift you could possibly give someone,

to be a fan, to support them. Right. You know, I think of Bruce Springsteen, his mom takes him and she leases a guitar for him. Do you know what I mean? Like to just be like, oh, you're, I was just reading about the Wright brothers, right? Like maybe the two greatest people to ever come out of Ohio, right? I got just be like, oh, you're right. I was just reading about the Wright brothers, right? Like maybe the two greatest people

that ever come out of Ohio, right? I got them a third, but that's fine. One of them said, you know, what's the secret to life? It's like, have a good, he says, I think it's maybe Wilbur Wright. He says the secret to life is have a good mom, good dad and be born in Ohio. I remember that quote, yeah.

But no, David McCullough wrote this incredible book about the Wright brothers. And he says that their mom who died very early in their life, but she gave them this incredible gift in that they were always doing these projects, like making these little toys and experiments, you know, the nonsense that kids do, how is garbage, you know.

He said she never threw a single one of them away. Like she'd walk, she'd trip over one in the kitchen and she'd pick it up and put it on a shelf. Do you know what I mean? She never said like, get this mud out of here. Or like, what is this pile of sticks? Or what are you talking? She just, she treated it with not reverence,

but she respected it as something that was worthwhile. So when these kids start fooling around with bicycles and they're older and everyone's like, what are you doing? They had some sense that, no, if I'm interested in it, maybe there's something here. And then when with their own money, going up against government contractors and the smartest people in the world

start messing around with flying machines and everyone said, what are you doing? It's not even, they didn't even say, what are you doing? They just didn't even care because it was obviously not gonna work. Right. Someone had said, like my bags are packed, I'll watch the first flight.

You know what I mean? Like someone had said like, if you think there's something here, there's probably something here. Yeah. And that's the greatest gift you can give kids. And to create a culture in the country, which we've had and now we're like, no, you can't do that.

No, no, no, no. It's impossible. Yeah, there's no way. Can't solve that problem. Can't solve that problem. Things are fucked. Also, by the way, things are systemically oppressive. And so someone like you definitely can't do it.

It's rigged against you specifically right right Yeah, it never happened. Yeah, you know and I think some of the moments that created the American culture were You can come here. Yeah, and we're going to the moon Yeah, you know, I mean we're gonna we're gonna win wars that we shouldn't win Yeah, you know, and we rebuilt and Roosevelt set all these outrageous goals, blew past them, you know, because that was the spirit. And now it's like, can't do this, can't do that,

can't fix this, can't fix that. And that to me is what's gotta change. Because the whole culture should be saying, no, cool, be yourself, do it, we don't know where it's gonna lead. Like it's like, yeah, and I think even if you think about why you're a young person, you're depressed. It's like, you look at these, we got climate change, we got gun violence, we got mental health crisis,

we got all these problems. And we're not even at the place where we're arguing over whether we can solve them. Tragically, on a big chunk of those problems, we're arguing about whether they exist or not. They obviously exist, and we're bumping up our heads against the wall of denial of the problem. And maybe those people are denying the problem

because they don't believe we can fix them. But if we could all come together and go, look, this is the problem. Let's not blame anyone for it, but this is the problem. And I am more than confident that we have the ability to solve this problem collectively. And I think Biden does a good job of this and he goes like, we're America, you know?

Like we can do this, do you know what I mean? It would be wonderful if it was a more full-throated, energetic, charismatic thing in the way, you know, like we can do this. Do you know what I mean? It would be wonderful if it was a more full-throated, energetic, charismatic thing in the way, you know, Kennedy said, let us begin, or ask not what your country can do. You know, like if he was a fresh young veteran or something, but he's not. But like somebody's got to say, like, we are people who solve tough problems.

We think about where we were in March of 2020. Did you think we could come together and invent a vaccine before anyone else in the world that would solve it? Like, you probably didn't, I didn't. But we fucking did. Well, how about the fucking guy who actually like was president

when the money was going out? Not that he had like, wasn't his idea, well, he fought it, but he signed it and he was president and kind of started the whole thing. Is the guy saying don't get it. But do you know who Dr. Katalin Kariko is? She's this Hungarian immigrant. She and her family flee in the early 80s from Hungary, fleeing communism.

They have $900. They sell their car. They got $900. They stuff in their daughter's teddy bear, they make it here, and she gets a job at Penn. And she's just like a low level academic researcher, scientist. She never gets like, it's never getting promoted. She's always getting passed over.

Every time her boss gets hired away somewhere else, she's got to reapply for a job. And she has this idea that there's something in mRNA research, you know? She never makes more than $60,000 a year. Her husband is an apartment super, you know what I mean? This is like middle-class American dream 101. 40 years she does this, and then March 2020, people are like, anyone researching this?

You know what I mean? Wow. Saves millions of lives. Yeah. Creates trillions of dollars of value. Yeah. Is almost certainly worth a Nobel Prize. I know she got snubbed for it once.

I'm not sure if she won it yet, but like to me that's fucking America right there. That's a hero, yeah. You got the immigrant story. You got the perseverance. You got someone who just cared about the thing they cared about in their profession, even though it was never recognized, wasn't compensated,

no one's throwing you any parades. Then she does the thing, saves it, snubbed. There's this New York Times profile and her husband's like, "'Don't feel too sorry for her, she loves going to work.'" That's it, you know what I mean? She'd have died happy if nothing ever happened. Yeah, she loves going to work. And so everything else, to me that's stoicism, right?

Oftentimes is associated with success or accomplishment or getting to that, but it's extra. It's about the process. Yes. Yeah, day by day. Yeah. Yeah. There's some cool stuff happening in the country. When I got Alex started this We the People group. Yeah, day by day. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's some cool stuff happening in the country.

When I got out, I started this We the People group. Yeah. And the whole thing we're doing is we're gonna get five or six issues that are actually moving the needle. Yeah. That nobody fucking talks about, right? So MDMA for vets and psilocybin for vets.

Cannabinoids, psilocybin, healing addiction, regenerative ag, mindfulness in schools with social and emotional learning and breath work and stuff that really helps you reset your nervous system. And we're just highlighting it because no one's doing it. We're gonna do videos on the content of it and just like stuff that we're finding the stuff that works. Right and try to go to these young people and say like let's get behind this stuff. It's not a Democratic issue,

it's not a Republican issue, food is medicine. Right? Mark Hyman's, Dr. Mark Hyman's buddy of mine. We're reversing diabetes with diet nutrition. Half the country has diabetes or pre-diabetes and we're sitting here saying, spend more on healthcare or cut healthcare and no one's saying, how do we get healthier? Is that even like a question? So I think to the extent you can throw gas on these people,

like the guy. Yeah, what's working, Put more power to those wheels. Cut the stuff that's not working and put it in here. And the guy who's doing the vet stuff with the MDMA, 25 years. Yeah. 25 years he's been working on it. That's amazing. It's crazy.

And it works. And you get these vets two, three sessions. They're 90% better. Healed. Going to work, paying taxes, better relationships. Heal the relationships with their spouses, kids that they've, you know, so much trauma, they broke up their family.

That's lovely, man. Yeah, good stuff. Sweet, you wanna go check out some books? Let's do it, man. All right. ["The Last Supper"] Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much

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