The Daily Stoic - Jason Singer Of Michigander On The Reality Of Being A Rock Star

Episode Date: May 3, 2023

Ryan speaks with Jason Singer of the band Michigander about he and his wife getting back on track after a series of injuries, the humbling experience of asking for help and paying it forward, the realities of being a professional rock musician, the power of art to give the artist a healthy outlet, and more.Jason Singer is the creator, frontman, and songwriter for the indie rock band Michigander. A Michigan native and self-taught multi-instrumentalist, Singer founded Michigander in the early 2010s and gained wide acclaim in 2016 with the singles “Nineties,” which garnered over a million online streams. The band has released three EPs and a string of singles since then. Michigander’s music, merch, and tour dates can be found on their website michiganderband.com, and on Instagram @michiganderband.✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic Podcast early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast where each weekday we bring you a Meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics a short passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well-known and obscure, fascinating, and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are, and also to find peace and wisdom in their actual lives.

But first, we've got a quick message from one of our sponsors. Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic podcast. One of my favorite radio stations here in Austin is 97.1. That's ACL radio. And I've gotten to know Andy Langer there pretty well. He interviewed me for the Texas Monthly Podcast, but he's basically like Austin's DJ. And I have found so much good music through this guy. He actually came out and we had dinner the other night here

at Storehouse, which is across from the painted porch and Bastrop. I said before that I listened to music when I write, and if you got the pre-order bonuses for discipline or courage, you probably heard of this band, Michigan, who I quite enjoy. I like his song, Let Down, I like better. His song of reds that I really like. Just an awesome musician that I think more people should know. And as we talk about in today's episode, he has written a hard road recently. And I was just someone I was very much looking forward to having on the podcast.

And if you can, if you wonder why my voice is a little scratchy in this episode, we'll be talking about that at the beginning because I was recording the daily dad audio book. So selfishly wanted to ask him some advice on vocal strength. Anyways, you can go to michiganterband.com for tour dates. You can follow at Michiganerbaned on Instagram, YouTube, and Twitter, and you can stream all his stuff on Shopify. If you want to support an artist, the best thing you can usually do is buy merch from them. That's where there are the fewest people coming between them and the money. And it's always a great way to support artists. Here is my conversation with Jason Singer of Michigan

and thanks to my friend Andy Langer for bringing him to my attention. And I think you're gonna thank me for putting this on your playlist as well. It's funny, I talk to lots of people and a good chunk of those people haven't been readers for a long time. They've just gotten back into it. And I always love hearing that and they tell me how they fall in love with reading, they're

reading more than ever, and I go, let me guess, you listen audiobooks, don't you? And it's true, and almost invariably, they listen to them on Audible. That's because Audible offers an incredible selection of audiobooks across every genre from bestsellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, and of course, ancient philosophy, all my books are available on audio, read by me for the most part. Audible lets you enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app. You'll always find the best of what you love, or something new to discover, and as an Audible member, you get to choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog,

including the latest bestsell sellers and new releases. You'll discover thousands of titles from popular favorites, exclusive new series, exciting new voices in audio. You can check out Stillness is the key, the daily dad. I just recorded so that's up on Audible now. Coming up on the 10 year anniversary of the obstacle is the way audio books. So all those are available and new members can try Audible for free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash daily stoke or text daily stoke to 500 500. That's audible.com slash

daily stoke or text daily stoke to 500 500. Life can get you down. I'm no stranger to that. When I find things are piling up, I'm struggling to deal with something. Obviously, I use my journal, obviously I turn to stosism, but I also turn to my therapist, which I've had for a long time and has helped me through a bunch of stuff. And because I'm so busy and I live out in the country, I do therapy remote, so I don't have to drive somewhere. And that's where today's sponsor comes in. Toxbase makes it easy to find a therapist that you like.

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As a listener of this podcast, you can get 80 bucks off your first month with Toxbase when you go to Toxbase.com. So to match with a license therapist today and go to talkspace.com slash stoic to get 80 bucks off your first month and show your support for the daily stoic. That's talkspace.com slash stoic. I need I need some advice. So I'm in the middle of recording the audio book for my next book. I'm doing this parenting book, the daily dad. So I'm having to record the audio book. It's like my, I don't know how many audiobooks have done, but a lot. But every single time I'm

like wrecked after it's like six or seven. So let's say it's between six and 10 hours of audio, typically like on an audiobook. And you do it over like four or five days, like a bunch of different sessions. Usually you can do like maybe an hour or two hours, but I'm like wrecked. It sounds like I have a cold after my voice is terrible. How do you protect your voice? Like what's your secret? Well, I think the biggest thing is to warm up.

I mean, as a musician, I have to always be warming up, you know? So I have a vocal coach and she gave me this, she gave me this metal straw. Yeah. And so you like, do like, like in water. Oh. And that meant it's like a workout for your vocals.

And then there's like a little app that Andy Hall sent me. Okay. And he said get this app and it's like seven minute vocal warmup. And it's kind of expensive. We said this to be. Yeah and it's like seven-minute vocal warm-up and it's kind of expensive. We said this to be 99, yeah it's 99 cents. Okay. But you get this app and it's awesome. So is that your sort of, so you get like when you're on tour, you're performing a bunch of nights in a row or South by, you must have done like three or four shows in a single day. Yeah,

does that just wreck your voice? Well, yeah. So you warm up. And we're trying to warm up twice a day. And I also got this little like nebulizer. I saw Brandon Flowers using it. So then I had to get it. It's like a little like mister. So you put this little liquid in. And then you just like take seven minutes.

And it lasts for like seven or eight minutes. And you just like breathing in and out like a humidifier, but it's it actually affects the vocal cords. It's like a vape for your vocal cords or something. Yeah, to vape essentially, but it's like a healthy vape of sorts, I think. Yeah, but it's pretty cool. That is interesting. I think it's like I think people who don't do I think people who don't do regular stuff, you forget that every single profession has certain wears and tears on it and the people who do it for a long time have to figure out how to compensate for that train,

for that how to avoid burnout and repetitive injuries from that thing. And voice, as a writer, you don't think, well, I better have a strong voice, right? You think of voice metaphorically, not physically. And now that I do, like I'm, so this morning I was recording, I did the month of February in the book,

and then I, this is my second hour of podcasts, and then I'm like, shit, I wouldn't talk for, I wouldn't talk for three consecutive hours in the course of a, or a, a, cumitively over a week, I I don't think like it's just not what I do. It's very, it's very, it's very important to take care of at least for at least for what I do. Probably a little less for just talking, but I didn't really notice it to last summer. We were playing some shows and then I was out in like um, we played some festival and it was a little

dusty and then after the show show, I was totally screwed for the whole week of shows. And after that week, I was like, I should go to Volk, warm up, send get a coach. And so I did like three sessions with this coach and she changed my views on stuff. Because like, think about this, if you spill water on the floor, right?

The water's gonna evaporate in like a minute, a couple minutes. You know, like it'll be like a reasonable amount of water. So think about that with your vocal cords. It's like it's going to be gone pretty quickly. So what some people do is they take a shot of olive oil. Because if you spill oil on the floor, it's going to hydrate and be there for a while. So if they just take like cooking oil, like olive oil, and they do that. And like John legend, and I think

Adele, they and Aritha Franklin, they all have like, they want a rotisserie chicken. They want lays potatoes just because the grease like, get you like that last awhile. So that's what the, I'm like, I'm always drinking tea, but like, yes, I do throat coat. That's the only tea I like. That's what I do. But there's this, there's this stuff called winter wake up from Trader Joe's. Okay. Big fan. But it's only at the winter time. So we stock up on it for the whole year. I, um, I did, I did this book a couple of years ago with Chris Bosch, the NBA player and he was telling me this story where they were all on the, the team playing, uh playing after the game, after some game, and they're all playing cards or gambling

or whatever. And then LeBron James gets down in the aisle of the plane and he starts doing yoga. This is like 10 plus. This is like a long time ago. Like obviously yoga is popular, but before yoga was as culturally accepted, especially in the NBA, and they're all laughing at him and busting his balls. What are you doing? You can imagine the things that they're saying about this basketball player doing Yoga

and the I.O. The plane. He was like, flash forward to today. None of us are in the league except for LeBron James, right? LeBron's thing was he would stretch multiple times on the plane after every game, you know, mobility, flexibility, being a big, big part of what he thought went into longevity, right? And, and I'm fascinated with like these little things that people do that maybe they don't get credit for or think is really stupid or lame, but are actually sort of what real

professionalism looks like. Like the decision is take care of your instrument literally and figuratively is like the most important thing. I think that's like post COVID. Like since we've been on the road, post pandemic, it has been all about like, how do we do this better? Like how do we get seven hours of sleep? How do we take care of ourselves mentally? How do we like, let's just stop eating like just fast food. Let's get, let's try to go to Chipotle. Is mine just possible?

That's like the best option you we have on the road. Yeah, and like, let's make sure we're drinking water. Let's keep vitamins like in the van for everybody and even more so like this last tour, it was like, because it was the last tour we did was last year with Manchester Orchestra. And it was like, these are a lot of shows and we're chasing a bus.

We've never chased a bus before because we're the opening act, you know? And so, so you have to drive behind them basically? Well, I mean, like, so they, the thing about, what a lot of people don't really know is when a bus, the band will play the show, and then bus call will be like two in the morning, the bus driver sleeps all day. And so once the whole venue is packed up and loaded up and ready to go, the bus just leaves and you sleep on the bus, so you wake up in the next city. If so once the whole venue is packed up and loaded up and ready to go, the bus just leaves and you sleep on the bus. So you wake up in the next city. If you're the open band, I mean,

that could be 10 hours away. So you're shooting the city. So we like, we played Kansas City one day and the next day we played Denver. And that's like nine, 10 hours. So we have to do, we have to figure out how to get the sleep and figure that out. So you would stay the night in that city and not go on to the next city, or I would be sorry. Yeah, yeah, so like if we would stay night in Kansas city and the next day, we would drive all day to get there in time for sound drinks and wake up at six or seven in the morning

and then drive the whole, across the whole, I get very far, kind of terrible, but that's rock and roll. Yeah, it's, no, it's, you don't, like in the NBA also, it's going to, to, not just stretching, but like the NBA was like, hey, when we book teams on multiple back-to-back games, everyone plays worse. Yeah. And like, so the number of back-to-back games in the NBA went from, I don't know, 14 a season to three in a season, right? And they're noticing that injuries go down, playing goes up.

And so often, like, when you're planning something or working on something, yeah, you're like, how do I get there fastest? How do I make the whole thing as efficient as possible? And often this efficiency is actually at the expense of longevity or sustainability, because you're just thinking, yeah, how do we get here? Point A to point B fastest, or, you know, the first thing that gets cut is sleep or meals. And this is, you know, economizing in one sense,

but it's also very expensive in the other sense. Yeah, it just kind of wears you out really quickly. So we're even more so now, like this is the first tour we're about to go on. We leave Sunday for five weeks and it's been over a year since we've done a long tour. And I've had like a lot of crazy things happen in my life since then.

So now kind of coping with those while I'm about to go like full on into five weeks of, like we're in a van, you know, we're not, we don't have the bus. So we are the road warriors and we, and now that we're headlining these shows, we have to get there extra early, you know, because we're the first band in and last band-out kind of thing.

So it'll be, it'll be an adventure, but we're taking a lot of steps to try to like make it mentally more doable. I think that's the hardest part now, more than the, like playing the shows and physically and everything. Yeah, I think it's like, you know, sort of earlier in your life, you can just gut it out, right? Like you're you're you just you white knuckle it you put garbage in your body You you always power through you're sort of you're subsisting on raw energy raw enthusiasm, you know sort of brute strength and and mostly youth and then as you get older you realize that like sort of professionalism It's not just like oh, I wear a suit to work, but professionalism is like, I take care of myself, I have good habits, these are the things that I don't do anymore.

This is the schedule that I keep, and I've certainly been on that journey just like, okay, I've done this thing a lot of times, and I've succeeded, but if the goal is to continue doing that same thing, I'm going to have to make some different decisions. Yeah, it's really tough, but like one of the funniest things is I used to say we want a case of beer and then they would give us like a 30 pack of beer and now we just say just give

us one nice six pack of beer. That's all we want. Sure, sure. I like that. Because if they give you more, you'll drink it all. Yeah, I like that. If they give you more, they'll drink it all. And then it just goes like, oh, we'll just pack it up and keep it for the hotel or something. And I'm like, we don't need this every night. It's like, waste of money on the venue side.

We rather just have the cash to like go out and buy Chipotle for lunch the next day. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So it has been, it's been a really rough year for you, right? You, you sort of got the line-sided twice you're, you're white. Yeah. So last September I was out in California shooting a music video slipped in, we're in a place called Angelo's Crest. So it's like an hour outside of Los Angeles. No cell service. Beautiful. Like So it's like an hour outside of Los Angeles. No cell service. Beautiful, like wildly beautiful. Like I remember standing out there being, because it's amazing.

And then shortly after standing there and looking at everything, I slipped on some brush and I broke my leg. And there was no cell service. And I thought I rolled my ankle and I was like trying to get up. And it was like, this is not happening. And so we're like, what do we do? And I was like, well, let's just go to the hospital, wrap it up. I'll postpone the flight today.

We'll shoot the rest tomorrow. It'll take it easy. It turns out it was broken in three spots. I just thought I rolled it. And so then two surgeries later and like two and like it took for ever. Like it was just a long, terrible journey being on pain medicines and being like a thousand miles from home or whatever and being kind of alone for most of it and not really realizing how traumatic any of it was until like a long time later which was

really scary. And then something else happened, right? Yeah, that's the first thing. Oh yeah, so all of that happens and I'm at home recovering. I'm gonna have my little scooter. I can't drive really because we live on a Hales or cars. It's just long story short, I can't go.

I can't move. I'm just in the house, stuck to the home, watching, we had a post-pollon the tour, can't like post-pollon the record. Everything is like moving quickly and great and feeling awesome and then boom, that happens. And then when I said things probably can't get any worse, they definitely can.

And they did. And I was at home, my wife went to a she-work set of venue here in town in Nashville. And she went to work and I was thinking nothing of it, sitting home at this chair right here playing video games with some friends my only social activity during those times and I get a call from a number I don't recognize and ignore it and I get a call again and from the number and I ignore it again the third time I say if it's

important to leave a message turns out it was. My wife got ran over by a truck while walking to work. Like fully run over, like big, big pickup truck by some kid and spent like, and I got a call and the guy was like, your wife's been a horrible accident. So I called him back and I was like, are you okay? What's going on? He's like, and I got a call and the guy was like, your wife's been a horrible accident. So I called him back and I was like, are you okay? Like what's going on? He's like, I don't know.

He's like, is she okay? He's like, I have no idea. I was like, holy crap. Who was this person? A valet guy from just some restaurant. James, shout out James. And so I like looking at my phone and I'm like, I can't drive.

And I can't hear if I didn't hear from her at all. And it was crazy. And I'm like, I'm looking at her location. I'm like, oh, she's at that hospital. I had to call a neighbor and be like, hey, man, my wife got ran over. She's in the hospital. I have no idea if she's alive.

She's okay. And I'm just scooting around the hospital, I have no idea if she's alive. She's okay. And I'm just like scooting around the house, like stuffing my bag full of anything I might need. Well, I'm gonna be at the hospital for who knows how long. And like my life is like, I'm like just crying. I'm like sure. What's going on here? Like seeing our wedding pictures and being like, I mean, she gone. And so this is like for an hour, like having no idea, her mom's calling me like face, she like all this is happening.

The guy called her mom too, and her mom's like crying on the phone throwing up. And I'm like, I don't know what's going on. I can't do anything. Kind of seem just fake. And like it was not realistic or like it was not happening at all. Like a terrible dream.

Yeah. And I just was sitting on the porch waiting to be picked up. I can't do anything just like sitting there crying and being like, what do I do? Hearing nothing, no updates, nothing from anybody. Just seeing that she was at Vanderbilt Hospital. And then that's where I was going and hoping to figure it out.

And luckily, after being there for like five days, she got released. And that was like a whole thing of itself too. It was just really hard to be there. And then to be released where we don't have the care of medical professionals. That's your problem. Yeah, so her family lived with us for a month and all of this happened back to back

and kind of screws with you big time. Yeah, when it rains at pours, there's a Japanese expression. I think wind crying stunned by beef like whatever whatever the next thing is life sometimes has a way of dropping that in your lap and it rains just to rub it in. Yeah, it's crazy. But yeah, that she was ultimately okay. Yeah, months and months later, she's back to work. I mean, there's still lingering effects, no taste or smell, like that sucks. That might never come back.

It's changes here and there, but it was like a traumatic brain injury. So she, loud noises and crowds are still tough. They're still pain. Running, being run over by truck and like Almost dying kind of will affect you for probably a little while Sure, but yeah, she is she's back in work and doing the thing and like we're figuring it out and It's tough. Yeah, she started therapy what she wanted to do anyway, but this just propelled her into it. And it also propelled me into doing therapy,

which has been wildly beneficial. Just to help with the sheer emotional overwhelm of it all? Yeah, I mean, there's also like the whole fact of like the job that I do, which is like a musician and a touring musician is already so mentally weird and strange. And so I always like, I need to go to therapy. I don't really know what I talk about,

but I'm gonna go do this. And she was like, I'm just, I'm growing up and wanting to change and figure out my life. So maybe I should go to therapy. But then this kind of just propelled us both into it. And there's, I've been, there's a really great organization here called Porter's Call. And they're like strictly work with people in music business.

And so they really understand the lifestyle and what the job entails. And that's been, that's been really helpful. I've been doing some EMDR, which has like, it's like, you know, when you find something new and then you think everybody else is an idiot for not doing it. Sure. That is exactly how I feel about this. And that's been just so awesome for me. Well, therapy is kind of similar to some of the physical stuff we're talking about where

you sort of go, have I just been raw dogging this the whole time for no fucking reason? You feel so stupid. Like, why have I been doing this? And it's yeah. And now, like, I'm like, oh, I'm like meditating every day. And like, you know, using like some app to meditate. And like, that is like the first time I did it, I was just like, oh, my eyes. And I was like, I just sort of like, I have like happy tears.

And I was like, why am I crying because of this? Like, and I was like, maybe because I've just realized how dumb I was and not do this for all these years where I've been so stressed and like constantly on the go and constantly overfilling my cup. And yeah, it's just funny. When you realize like that stuff was finding an outlet before just not deliberately and safely. So it's like you had that you have you know your hour session and you you come out and you're like I didn't really do anything but I just feel like a load off like I just I just

worked through this and now I'm over it. And then you're like what was it doing with that feeling three months ago? And you're like, I was still vomiting it out, just not honestly. Like I didn't know that's what I was doing, and it wasn't a safe place to do it, but I was still dumping these feelings on someone. To me, journaling is a similar thing. Like when you don't do it,

that feeling, that frustration, that need to explain or articulate or work something through, it's still finding a place, it's just a much less patient appropriate place. Yeah, it's so, it's very interesting the more I think about it is, I'm like, I'm 30 years old now, and to think like, I should have done this

like at least five years ago. I went to therapy as a kid, like in high school for like behavioral, like, you know, my mom made me go kind of thing. And I realized I was just running out the clock for that stuff and just trying to like say whatever I need to say to get it, get out of here. Sorry, Steve, but like I just is like ready to go. And I was like, yeah, I want to do this with my life. I'm feeling good. Thanks, man. Bye. But now now it's now I'm like being like very vulnerable. I mean, as you get older, it's just easier, at least for me in my experience to be more vulnerable.

And maybe it's just because I can only live on my own. I got this, you know, you got a different life than I had when I was a kid. So I can say a little more. I have a little bit of a platform. So I feel like a need and like a requirement to speak up the home feeling and how I'm doing. So yeah. The Dell Technologies Black Friday in July event is on with limited quantity deals on top business PCs with Windows 11 pro. Save on select Vostro laptops with built-in OS recovery fingerprint readers and antivirus protections. Plus, you can save on select latitude laptops with a wide range of built-in privacy

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Just bring them your project online, or with the Angie app, and answer a few questions. With Angie, you can book instantly at an upfront price, or requesting compare quotes from multiple pros, so you can find the best price for your project. So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that, and start getting the most out of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Well, just imagine who you would be if you were not an artist, right? You would still have the same emotions, the same frustrations, the same opinions about the

world. the same emotions, the same frustrations, the same opinions about the world, but you wouldn't have the ability to funnel those emotions productively into art. So you think about how blocked up you would be or how inappropriate you would be or how much difficulty you would have processing and dealing, and I think therapy is just a similar outlet for things that the art is either just not

ready for or you are not ready to put into the art, you've got to have those sort of places to deal with it. Because otherwise, it's your spouse's problem, your colleagues problem, or the stranger in front of you at line in the grocery stores problem. That is so interesting. That is so bizarre. But yeah, the thing about it that way,

I've never put it in perspective of being like, what would I be like if I wasn't getting paid to do this? Well, I was thinking about that the other day, like I just went through this like frustrating work thing, actually a couple of them in a row, and I was really pissed. I felt like I'd been screwed over. I knew it was going to cost me a lot. And I was like, you know what, the silver lining here is like, I'm going to write three or

four daily stoke emails about this that are going to help other people. I'm going to feel better for it. And I'm going to be able to go, hey, that all really sucked, but look what I have to show for it. Right. Yeah. That's the sort of the obstacle is the way is like, Hey, this should happen, but it's material. Right. And so because it's material, I emerge better for it. But what if I was in an artist, what if I didn't have that approach, right? I wouldn't have the I wouldn't it wouldn't so immediately and easily be able to say to myself, yeah, that cost of fortune, yeah, that was totally unfair and shitty. How could they do this to you?

And that would just be the end of that story, right? If you don't come up with a way to process it and use it, then you're just sitting with it. It's just there on your shoulders and that's so not good. Yeah. Getting, getting it out, even there's like sometimes very right songs about things that like I'll go into like a writing session. I think this is what I want to write about today's sound feeling and it'll be like, okay, I'm glad I got that out, but that song, no one needs to hear that.

That's like it was like such a petty problem of mine to maybe fixate on and to like, suspend someone's whole day writing a song about like being bummed about someone else being bummed. And like, yeah, it's fun. So how did you deal with, I know where you were in your career when all that stuff happened. Stuff was really starting to go for you.

You had momentum. And then basically the world is like, we're going to hit pause for several months and you have no say in the matter. How did you think about that? It is horrifying because I wasn't sure... I wasn't sure what was going to happen because it was all this momentum going

and all the pieces were at play and everything was rolling on all cylinders and then it was like, stop, what are we gonna do? So it was like, well, we could post since the relationship with the label and management is very good and everybody is a very good team that I was like, I would love to postpone everything. Can we just

put pause on? We have all the music out. We have a holiday song we were going to release, like all this stuff. And so it was like, let's just, people will understand, people will stick around, I think. So let's just like postpone everything like eight months from now. And then it was like, cool, let's do that. So we did it. And we were like, we could post these these shows were selling the best they were ever selling for me because you know, for so long, I've been playing to empty rooms to like nobody.

And like in some places like, sure, we go to Salt Lake, see there's nobody there. We go to Boise, there's nobody there. We go to Seattle, there's nobody there. And like, that's draining. But this was the first time we're like, wow, ticket, we've sold more tickets already this far out than we did at the end of the show. So what are we going to do about that?

And my manager, you're going to, you need to like, brace yourself, you're going to lose 50% of these. And I was like, oh my god, that's horrifying. Luckily, we only lost like 4% across the board. People just like, I never felt as much support, like those two incidents in my life. Like, people just like came out of the woodwork and reached out to me and like,

people in our community here were just like so supportive and like, whatever you need. And like, it was cool because I because there's people I looked up to. People I had no idea, any idea who I was, there was artists and people were like, hey, whatever you guys need, just let us know. We'll get what you need. And all these organizations and everybody just came

and helped. But that moment where I was like, I have to cancel everything. That was bad enough. And then I was stuck at home on top of that and then it was seasonal seasonal saddies came piling in but all all of that at once was just so tough and Like I thought like maybe maybe this is gonna end everything Sure for me

But you know like looking and I think we'll know more, you know, a year or two from now. But like in hindsight, like, is I don't like to use this phrase, but it's definitely like a blessing in disguise. Like, yeah, there's this, yeah, there's a story I heard about Bruce Springsteen once, I guess, is the album with, with Boren, I guess, is it born to run? Anyways, the second album, he thought, hey, this is when it's gonna come out. So they put out the first single and then there's some production delay, label delay. Anyways, the album comes out like 10 or 11 months later

than it was supposed to. Which, when you believe in momentum and you're like, this is my time, I've worked on this for so long, it's all gotta go this way or it's not going to work. You know, you sort of things it's a death sentence. And then what happens is it actually gives the single like 10 extra months of runway. So when the album comes out, it works.

Yeah. And it's funny. We had this idea of how it has to go, how it's supposed to go. And in a way that kind of sells a short, right? Like, like, it actually, because we're not patient enough, we would never actually say, hey, you know what? Because it would take so much discipline to go, hey,

you know what, I'm actually just gonna let this sit do what it does for 10 months, or six months, or eight months. We would never do that because it seems irresponsible and entitled and reckless. And then the universe comes along and says, I don't care what you think. You know, we're hitting snooze on this for eight months. And then you're like, oh, that was great. You know, that worked out like I actually there were there was all this stuff inherent in it that I wouldn't have chose, but it's to my benefit. And it doesn't always work out that way.

But I have found in my career the things that I was, I felt were most urgent, that were most like do or die. If it doesn't happen this way, the whole thing's dead in the water. The exact opposite has turned out to be true and the delays were good for me. Yeah, I was also like looking back. Okay, so the morning of my accident, I had posted like this long post about like, how I'm feeling burned out and like,

I'm like, don't know where I'm going and like I'm frustrated and, but I'm feeling, but I was like, I'm really excited about everything. I just wanted to be honest to everybody. I'm feeling really burned out and I hope I make it through this. Yeah.

And then I literally had my legs or were like, I can help you with that. Yeah. Yeah. And then the next day, or like a couple hours later, it was like, you're done. So maybe it was all big master plan of getting me where I need to be. Because now it's weird.

I feel even going through all that crap, which was like easily the darkest and lowest times in my life, like panic attacks and sleep paralysis and never experiencing any of like real serious depression and hardship. Then I did till that time, you know, so it's like horrible. But now I feel better. I feel better than ever. Like I feel like mentally I'm in the best state I've ever been in my life in like a healthy way

and learning how to like cope, help healthy with like emotions. I'm also feeling like more in charge of like my trajectory. I'm feeling like more in charge of like my job and my music and my business quote unquote. And I'm like not glad it happened, but I'm not, I'm happened, but I'm not, I'm not, it's like destroying my whole life. And it, it made me better, yeah.

And if it had destroyed your whole life, if you're like your whole career could be derailed by an eight month delay, how good was it really, right? Exactly. You're so fragile that you have to go through your whole life. If I don't say no, if I don't say yes to every single opportunity, it's all going to come to a screeching hall. That's not a position of success. You're a prisoner. Exactly. Yeah, that's true. I did not think

of it that way either. I'm just learning so much here today. I remember I was talking, I was talking to a college basketball coach right at the beginning of the pandemic. We were maybe like two, three months into it and he was just, he's like, you know, these kids, they've worked their whole life. Like they're about to start their freshman season at this university or that university and we're, you know, we're telling them like, hey, there's not going to be summer, you know, training this year, we're going to go straight into the season in the fall or whatever.

And he's like, they just can't handle it. And I was like, you got to think about it from their perspective three months is like five percent of their life for, you know, some percent, like, it's actually a significant percentage of the total time they have been alive on the planet. So one of the things you get as you get older is you get more comfortable with larger blocks of time, right? You go, hey, like, I remember when I had a bad year. My wife and I have been together for 15, 16 years now. It's not like, oh, I remember when we were fighting for a little bit. It's like, there are years in our relationship that were not good, right? Like, whole years. So that does give you the ability to then, you have a couple bad days in a row,

you're not getting along, you're not like, oh, this thing is toast, right? You have the perspective to go, hey, there are dips and valleys, and as you go, you start to get a longer sense, you have a longer time horizon for what something constitutes. And that is a super

valuable perspective that makes you more resilient as you go because you don't sweat every single thing as it's happening because you go, it normally works out, I'll figure it out. I've been through dips like this before. You read that book, The Messy Middle, or seen that book? It's arguably a long, too long of a book to just tell you the basis of the story, and there's this graph in it, where it's like, you're on this path from here to here, and as you're going up the path, and you're going up the hill, you'll have low points still, but you look back and go, that low point is way higher than my low point when I was in high school.

And that's kind of like this image that's just burned in my brain and seeing that as like, I think it's a book mostly meant for like business owners and like that. And so it's as someone who kind of has a business. So I can just read this and it was just very interesting to see thinking about that. And then like, like what you said, like the whole sense of time, as you get older is so warped.

Like I can't imagine five years ago knowing what I'll be doing in December. But like at this point in my life, like my whole year is mapped out, which kind of sucks sometimes. Like you see and you go, oh man, by the time that thing I'm really looking forward to happens, like the year's over.

And like you see that kind of stuff, but as I'm getting older, I'm really looking forward to happens like the years over. And like you see that kind of stuff, but as I'm getting older, I'm realizing, I care so much less about, I care so much less about like what, like how long things will take. And like this new EP that I'm about to put out, like that took, like that took three years, two years to something and make like,

this has been done for over a year. And it's just coming out soon. And so it's like, I've been sitting on this for so long and that would never have flown like six years ago. You could never have accepted waiting for a year when you were 17 because that's like a 17th of your life, right? And when you talk to people who are really older people who have done a thing for a long time, right? Let's say you talk to someone who's been in the music business their whole life, right? They're like, oh yeah, I remember that trend.

That was a hard time in the industry and then you kind of like do the math. You're like, that trend was from 1981 to 1996. They're talking about a 15 year trend, and they're just writing it out. It was a bad weekend or whatever, but to them, because they've been doing it for so long, that kind of was a blip. The longer you do it, the more you've been through stuff,

you go, this is a phase. I know this feeling, whenever I start a book, because I this is a phase. This, I know this feeling, like, whenever I start a book, right, because I've done so many books now, I know, look, the next several months of this are gonna be really unpleasant. I'm not gonna feel like I'm making progress. I'm not gonna feel like it's fun.

I'm not gonna be sure it's actually gonna come together. You know, I'm gonna doubt myself. I know all those sensations, and I know that they are a femoral and passing, and that if I just don't quit, eventually. I don't know exactly when, but I know that eventually, you get to the other side. It's like, look, the first time you get a cold,

you're like, what is this? You're a kid, you don't even understand. But then you get enough of me, you're like, hey, last three or four days, and then you come out fine, right? And so once you get enough of me, you're like, hey, you'll last three or four days, and then you come out fine, right? And so once you've been through stuff, you are more comfortable going through other stuff because you know the right.

Have you ever had a moment where you didn't get it done? And you were like, I need to put this to sign and come back to it, or maybe it took four or five times as long as you thought. Because I've had those two where I'm just like, sure. I can tell this isn't worth, you chase an idea, but there's been a music video where we were chasing

this idea and halfway through, we were like, this isn't it, this isn't landing, this won't work. And we just were like, okay, we'll come back to it another time. Yeah, no one went to quit and went to stick is obviously the trillion dollar question. And you never, you don't know the counterfactual. You don't know the things that you quit that you should have stuck with. And the things you stuck with, you know, it's not always clear that

how'd you quit, you might have found something better. But I remember on my last book on disciplines destiny, I was sort of in the depths of that place. Like, it wasn't coming together. I was tired. Wasn't sure what was next. And I was going through my note cards. I read all my books on these note cards. And I found this note card. And I was like, you're going to be,

I'd written a note to myself. And I don't know when and I don't know why. But it was something, it said something like, when you go through your note cards, it's not going to feel like there's a book here. But if you keep going through your note cards, the book will emerge, just follow the process. And it was like this weird message that my past self had sent to my future self. And it was exactly right. Like, there wasn't one day where it magically clicked, but it did start to emerge.

And like, when you, like, the process is the process. And everyone has their own little unique takes on it, but basically, like, starting something and sticking with it until it's done, that's the fucking process of all creative work, right? It's not inspiration, it's not stream of consciousness. It is a day-to-day process that goes in fits and starts. And if you accept that and you hand yourself over to it, the work comes out of the other side. That is a fact.

Yeah, I like when something, I like when something you're working in one direction, at least in music, and like got got this idea and then by the end It's done. You're like, oh, that's totally that's totally different than what I initially set out to make and then you get there You're like that's so much better than what I initially wanted to make That's always the most like exciting surprises like you you still made it and but you like proved yourself You were you proved yourself wrong and but you at the same time you were very it, but you like proved yourself wrong, and but you at the same time,

you were very right in what you were doing. Well, something struck me about my books, like I'm in the middle of the same, I'm doing this audio book, right? So I'm sitting down and reading the entire thing from cover to cover out loud, right? And one of the things that you happens when you do that is you're like, I forgot, I wrote all of this, right? Because there's no, the books, you know, 80,000 plus words. I don't have them all memorized. I

have a vague sense of what's in there, but it's like watching the movie that you've watched before. You're like, oh, I forgot about this little scene here. But you made the scene, right? And so you have this sort of bumping back into your own work, to your own self. And you realize, oh, that's also how it was created, which is I didn't sit down and have this overarching, holistic sense of what I was doing. What I did have was every day, a sense of what I wanted

to do that day or an openness to what would happen that day. And cumulatively, that added up to a final product. It's like driving at night, you have the headlights, you only see a little bit ahead of you, but eventually that illuminates all the way from point A to point B. And you just have to have that patience and that commitment and that openness.

And then yeah, you end up being pleasantly surprised by the final outcome. You're like, where did that come from? I don't even remember that. And that's a very beautiful thing. It's always interesting to go back and listen to the old music and I go like, oh, why did I, I'm so self-critical.

I'm like, yeah. And then sometimes I'll hear something like, man, that still hits. That would do so much better if I released it now. Like I wish I had that song at this point in my career. And, uh, and it's always, uh, it's always fun to go back and listen. It's also very cringe, but it's, it's at same time exciting. There, there's a line from Emerson where he's talking about how when you have an idea for something,

and then you're like, no, I'm not going to do it. You're scared of it. You're scared of it. You're critical of it. You're intimidated by whatever. And then you see someone else do that thing, right? He said, we bump into our own rejected ideas with a kind of alienated majesty. And that weird strangeness of like, oh man,

I was going to do that by chickened out or I was gonna do that, but I doubted myself or I was gonna do that. And I went this other direction instead. That's a really sober and humbling thing too that I think reminds you to just kind of trust yourself. Do the thing, see what happens. You can't overthink it and you can't hide

from whatever the muses or the work or the moment is trying to push you towards. Totally. That's good. Hey there listeners, while we take a little break here, I want to tell you about another podcast that I think you'll like. It's called How I Built This, where host Guy Razz talks to founders behind some of the world's biggest and most innovative companies to learn how they built them

from the ground up. Guy has sat down with hundreds of founders behind well-known companies like Headspace, Manduke Yoga Mats, Soul Cycle, and Kodopaxi, as well as entrepreneurs working to solve some of the biggest problems of our time, like developing technology that pulls energy from the ground to heat in cool homes, or even figuring out how to make drinking water from air and sunlight. Together, they discussed their entire journey from day one, and all the skills they had to learn along the way, like confronting big challenges, and how to lead through uncertainty. So if you want to get inspired and learn how to think like an entrepreneur, check out how

I built this, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon or Wondery app. Celebrity feuds are high stakes. You never know if you're just going to end up on page 6 or Du Moir or in court. I'm Matt Bellesai. And I'm Sydney Battle, and we're the host of Wonder E's new podcast, Dis and Tell, where each episode we unpack a different iconic celebrity feud. From the build-up, why it happened, and the repercussions. What does our obsession with these feud say about us?

The first season is packed with some pretty messy pop culture drama, but none is drawn out in personal as Brittany and Jamie Lynn Spears. When Britney's fans formed the free Britney movement dedicated to fraying her from the infamous conservatorship, Jamie Lynn's lack of public support, it angered some fans, a lot of them. It's a story of two young women who had their choices taken away from them by their controlling parents, but took their anger out on each other. And it's about a movement to save a superstar,

which set its sights upon anyone who failed to fight for Brittany. Follow Disenthal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music or The Wondering App. Well, one of the things that I, because I obviously have fallen in and I saw when that stuff happened, you guys put up this Go fund me campaign and you were talking about all the people who reached out to help How was that for you? I imagine you're kind of a self-sufficient driven like adult dude

Was that weird for you to like have all of that out there? Yes, and no because weird for you to like have all of that out there? Yes and no, because I used to really struggle with asking for help. And then I became very okay with asking it over the last couple of years. And I'm one of Brittany's friends, one of our friends, a man to put that together. And it was like weird to see all the people, like people that I knew, people that didn't know, people that I knew, but man to put that together. And it was like weird to see all the people, like people that I knew, people that didn't know, people that I knew, but had no idea that knew

who I was kind of like donating and being like, oh, we're gonna be fine. Like, like I'm always, it's also weird because I feel like, I heard this MPR like story once many years ago about like the worth of a network. And the amount of people that you know, in your network is like, you may not have a lot of cash

and a lot of real money, but the social capital is pretty strong. And that's always something that's really stuck out with me. For like, I've always wanted to have this, I've always wanted to build relationships with people that are genuine, but also, I want always wanted to have this, like I've always wanted to like build relationships with people that are genuine, but also like I wanna be the guy who knows the people,

like you know, I just wanna do, I wanna know like who's the best mechanic and like who's this person in all these places and know all these people and I just really like genuinely love talking to people and getting to know people. And so to see like that kind of unintentionally they come back my way and be so supportive was really cool.

But it was like hard. It was like, oh man, this is a lot of money. Like that people are putting up and from all over the world. And it was crazy to see and feel really, really fortunate that I have those people. I'm not someone who's like, I'm not taking your help. And if someone then mows me, I'm not sending it back.

But it is a little tricky sometimes, and you do feel like it was emotional like seeing a lot of that come through because it was just like, my phone was ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, you're like, how, why? Why us? Why did this happen to us? But then at the same time, you're like, it was just like, my phone was ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. You're like, how, why, why us? Like, why did this happen to us? But then at the same time, it's like, man, we have the resources and the people, like, we have people have who have our back. And like, I told you, it's like, what's the worst thing

that's like, the worst thing is going to happen is like, one of us dies. Like, that sucks for the other person. But like, the worst thing that's going to happen is like, what we're going to have to like live with someone, another one of our dies. Like that sucks for the other person. But like the worst thing that's gonna happen is like what we're gonna have to like live with someone or live with one of our parents' guest rooms for a little while. Like we're gonna be fine. And we really are fine in like that support like really, I mean that we would not be,

I mean we would have to live in a parents' guest and just have the help that we got from people. There's a story about Cyrus the Great, the Persian Emperor, and one of his advisors is like, you know, you're spending too much money on these building projects and these foreign provinces, on these, you know, plans, people are coming to you, asking for things, and you're always helping, and he's like, you're going to run out of money. And he says, watch this, and he writes like a series of notes. And he says, I want you to go dispatch all of these notes to the people addressed on the envelope. And so,

you know, the messenger sends them all out. And then if you call as the advisor, you know, back to the palace a few months later and he walks him into this room. And the room is filled with gold. And he says, what is this? And he shows him the note. And the note says, like, Hey, I'm in desperate straits. I need help, right? And he'd sent this to all the allies, all the people that he had helped, all the people whose, you know, life he had made a difference in over the years. And when he said he needed something, they were there, right? And it is true. Like, I think we sometimes think like, I have this, I have to protect what's mine. I got to, you know, pinch every penny. But actually, you know, the expression is your network, is your network, right? The people you've helped, the relationships you have, that is the

real true form of wealth and being sort of isolationist and selfish and, you know, inward looking is actually, you know, it might help your bank balance, but it actually makes you very vulnerable and fragile. And the person who has helped a lot of people is ultimately the most secure and reliable figures, because they have a huge favor bank to call in. They have a bunch of people whose lives they have a huge favor bank to call in. They have a, you know, a bunch of people whose lives they have positively touched. Yeah, it's a...

It's really special. I'm sorry, like, thinking about it right now, like just being like, that is crazy that people cared and people continue to care. It's been really cool. It is weird though, right? Like, we don't... When other people ask for help, we're like, sure, what can I do, right? And then we need help and we're like, I don't want to bother everyone. Everyone's going to judge me. What does it say about me? And it's like, it says exactly the same thing that it said when somebody else asks you for help and you were genuinely excited and grateful that they gave you the

opportunity to do that. That you were like, I can't believe they think this of me that they came to me with this. And then when it's the shoe is on the other foot, you're like, oh, I could never. Yeah, it's definitely humbling. Yes. And it's definitely humbling. It's definitely a journey. But the worst thing people will say is no or ignore it. So that's kind of like where I'm at now.

I'm like, I'm doing this tour and I'm trying to find special guests in all the cities to come do a song. And, you know, I'm hitting up people like, no, that are like, you know, well known folks and like that are like heavy hitters bigger than me. And then I'm hitting up just sending some, even those ones are kind are like, you know, well-known folks and like that are like heavy hitters bigger than me. And then I'm hitting up just sending some even those ones are kind of like, do you want to do this? And I've been left on red a lot of times this week, but it's been exciting to see people respond. But like the worst thing you're going to say is, no, it's not the vibe. It not not for me

that's fine do you know about the bed franklin effect no what's that so it's a thing that benderman franklin supposedly figures out he there's this guy and he needs his power much more powerful influential guy and i don't know some congress in philadelphia something needs help with and you know he wants to find a way to bring this guy over to his side you know so the

instinct is like what can I do for that guy what does he want what can I do for him you know how can I appeal to his self interest which is of course you know a decent strategy but what Franklin realizes that actually the opposite way is much more effective and he knows that this guy has this rare book collection that he prizes above all things. So, right, self-interested would be like, hey, I got you this extra rare prized book, like what, look what I did for you. But in fact, what Franklin does is he goes to the guy and he asks him if he can borrow the most valuable book in the collection. And the guy, you know, doesn't really have a reason to say no,

and so he loans it to him. But what Franklin finds is that afterwards, this guy and he are connected. Like the guy did him a favor, but then somehow feels connected to even indebted to Ben Franklin, right? And the irony is, we're afraid to ask for things because we don't want to impose,

we don't want to jeopardize the relationship. But in fact, who are we actually closest with? It's the people that we've shared experiences with. So you ask this heavy hitter to come perform with you. They're doing you a favor, kind of. But then also by asking them and then thinking about you and then doing this thing and then it happens. Now you have this base in this relationship, this shared experience that actually endures.

And so it's this weird paradoxical thing where we're afraid to ask for help. We're afraid to solicit or try things with people because we think it'll be a debit from the relationship. But it's actually a debit from the relationship. But it's actually a deposit. Right, yeah, that's interesting. It's very, I mean, that's kind of like all of being in the entertainment business is just trying to like get co-signs and trying to figure out like,

what, like these, I mean, other hand is like, there's these people that I meet that are like literally responsible and are so important to my formative years. Like, I would not, I got to meet Albert Hammond Jr. from the Strokes, and they're one of my all-time favorite bands and we were playing the same festivals them. And I saw the black SUVs pull up and they get out

and I walk up and I go, Albert, and he goes, hey, and I was like, hey, like I know this is so weird. We have some mutual friends, but I just wanted to let you know, I would, I'm playing this festival. This is crazy for me. There's no way I would be here if I didn't hear your records. Like, yeah, there's no way.

And he just like stood there and he's like, that's so heavy. Thanks so much. And he's like, can I give you a hug? And he gave me a hug and he's like, thank you for telling me that. And I was was like you were like one of the coolest most influential Modern rock guitarists and I just had to tell you I just had to fanboy for a minute and let you know that you're responsible for for this

Well, and what's the what's the worst that can happen? He's like cool and then walks away like you know what I mean when you get comfortable with that It it opens you up to opportunities. Yeah, it's all it's just it's it's it's it's it's it's definitely a dance and a balance. But one worth figuring out. Yes, yes. And yeah, you you you never know the requests could lead to this thing or the ask could lead to this thing or the the saying, hey, could you know lead to this thing. And I think I have at least found that a lot of the people that you think are kind of unattainable or un, you know, unreachable are actually like the reason they are who they are is that they're super

fans of the thing, right? They love books, they love movies, they love art, that they love the craft of what they do. And if you can find a way to connect with them about that thing, again, you're not imposing on them. You are connecting with them over the thing that they want to do the most in the world. Finding the common ground.

It's so, yeah, it's, it's, people, like friends of mine were back home, like who, who, who of you met? And I like, well, like, sort of, you know, I meet people and they're usually the best, like the biggest stars and like the most talented people are usually the most, truthfully, they don't seem approachable because you have this thing, this block in your mind, but they're usually the most, truthfully, they don't seem approachable because you have this thing,

this block in your mind, but they're usually the nicest people. They're usually so kind. They're usually the ones who actually remember your names. They're not trying to cool guy yet. They're just like, they know who they are. They know, they know how much, they know what they've done. Like they know what their art has done. They know what their music has done. And to meet, you know, just like meeting them and getting to talk to people over the years has been, it's always a really good example to show like how I want, like I'm nowhere near, like the status of the strokes or whatever. But like I want to be able to treat those like new up and coming road warrior bands, like the way that I, like the Albert may be treating me or whoever has been kind to me. And it's a good example of how to treat other people.

How have you, I mean, you've opened for a bunch of really cool bands. How do you sort of go into that as a student? Like what do you, what do you, what have you learned or, or how do you approach that? Because I imagine it's kind of, it's, Because I imagine, it's not many industries where the act of opening is a thing, where you, you know what I mean? And some music is unique and that it's just, it's not a force mentorship thing

because a lot of the bands don't even really talk, but you do get to see great people at work. Yeah, it's always, so the Manchester Orchestra tour, we were out with them for a month and they're like the prime example of like where I'd want to be with my career. Like they like they're they're they're literally just so kind and good people and care they don't need to they don't didn't even need to bring there was no reason for them to bring us out but they believe what I'm doing and so they gave me the time of of day and like took care of us while we did it. It is really interesting getting to watch

artists who are, you know, they have like a whole crew and how they prepare and how they leave stage and how like they take it somewhat seriously, but maybe don't take themselves too seriously. And it's always really interesting to see that like we I mean we've opened for so many like bands and I really love and you know sometimes you get to talk to them and sometimes You don't and maybe the the emulator and like but most of the time it's there, you know, they're they're relatively We haven't really had any bad experiences opening for any any acts By the way, how good is that Phoebe Bridger's cover of the gold? relatively, we haven't really had any bad experiences opening for any, any acts. By the way, how good is that Phoebe Bridger's cover of the gold? Have you heard it?

Oh, yeah. That's so good. So good. Oh, it's so good. I love that. Oh, it's the best. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, and then to go to the help thing, I think some of the, some of the, you don't realize that there's this sort of quiet audition happening all the time, right? So you might perform for some band. You might both be at the same thing and you know, you don't really talk, you don't really connect, but you pop up on someone's radar and they're just kind of watching you. They're like, okay, I've taken note of this person and then it might be five years later or it might be five months later when they get in an accident and there's a go fund me

or or like for me, I'm going to this right now with the new book. We're going through Instagram and we're reaching out to all the people who follow the accounts that like I don't I didn't even know existed right. There's all these people that I'm fans of that have been like hey following daily dad or daily stoke or daily fostering my personally and I'm like holy, why do you follow me? How did I not know this? And they're like, oh, I saw you at this thing or the algorithm put me, put your stuff in my feed.

And then you just realized you've been kind of passively auditioning for this person for a long time. And then there is this moment where it clicks, and that's, I think one reason, obviously to always act like a pro and to do good work, but you don't know whose radar you're sort of on, and who you are slowly forming an impression in that person's mind.

And what kind of huge door opportunity that could mean in the future. Can I ask you if you've gotten Star's truck yet? Oh, a ton of times, yeah, all the time. Okay. Cool. All the time. And it's usually like you said, it's usually,

like I just interviewed Zach Braff the actor the other day. And obviously he's like a big deal. He's not like the most famous person in the world or whatever, but I was telling him, I was like, I don't think you understand, I used to pirate your stuff. The TV show you were on, because reruns didn't exist for this thing. I used to doubt, and so in a very formative place in my life,

I watched all your stuff. And then when you bump into that person and they're like, oh yeah, I liked this book or I liked this article you wrote, you're like, wow, that's not why you do it, but that is worth a million strangers liking what you're doing. Oh, totally. It's a, it is a, it's interesting when that happens. And you're just like, oh, you follow me or.

Yeah, yeah, that's cool But I just love like watching other pros do stuff and then what you can take take from My can take from them like fuck that is a good way to do it We we got to we got to play this like radio thing and we played with the luminaires, but the next night the killers played Yeah, who are one of my friends? Where you learned about your vape thing? and we played with the luminaires, but the next night, the killers played, who are one of my mom. This is where you learned about your vape thing. Well, I didn't learn, I saw that from his Instagram or something, but me and the guys are obsessed with cases

and watching people pack the vans and pack stuff. We're like, that's the best thing for us. And so I remember we just sat in the balcony at this smaller venue where the killers played and we got to just watch them pack up all the killers gear and watch how they did it. And we were like, whoa, like we were genuinely thrilled to see the guitar cases and the case for the drums

and how they pack it up so seamlessly. And we were very impressed. And so that's one example of seeing the pros at work, but that it was just, yeah, that was very stupid, but very impressed. And so that's one example of seeing the pros at work, but that it was just, yeah, that was very stupid, but very cool. No, no, that's stupid at all. I have the exact same story. I was talking to this other speaker that I know, his name's John Aikoff, or John Aikoff, sorry. And he was a Nashville actually, and he's been sort of a road dog for a long time. And he was, he was like, just telling me, he's like, I have a suitcase that has a double set of chargers

that has like all, that he just has a suitcase that has all his stuff that's not like the clothes he's packing for that trip in it. And so when he goes to pack to go do a talk, like most of his, he's not like, have you seen my phone charger? Like where are my razors. It's all there Such a basic thing that like I was doing the obvious stupid way for like years and years

And then as soon as someone shows you how to do that thing you're like yeah I'll give you another one like I know this guy his name is Brett bear up He died a couple years ago, and I think about him literally every time I'm at the airport because I remember I was flying home from Austin one time and I forgot where I parked my car at the airport. And I was like, I posted like on Instagram, this like dumb ordeal of me, like checking all the things,

eventually I had to like go to like the parking office and they had a way to like track Like when you are like they drove they're like you parked right here by by me telling them what time I flight was leaving They were able to like tell me but anyway She's like dude you have to take up He's like when you get to the airport and you park you take a picture of where you park and then when you check into your hotel You take a picture of the card where they then when you check into your hotel, you take a picture of the card where they write your room number on it. He's like, because you will never remember

these things and they'll all blur together with time. And that's what I do every single time. And that guy is no longer alive, but he is changed my life. He's changed my life. And he I will carry him with me for the rest of my life because he gave me this tiny little travel hack. And those are the things that make a huge difference. That's the worst. The parking at the airport is the worst, especially when you have to ride with all this gear and the little guys following you around with a cart of guitar cases and pedal board cases and you're like, man, I'm so sorry. I don't know where we are. I'll find it though. and pedalboard cases and you're like, man, I'm so sorry, I don't know where we are.

I'll find it though. Yeah. See my life so much easier than you, I like fly in, I don't have to bring anything. I don't even have to bring the audience. It's not my audience. It's somebody else's audience.

Like the corporate audience, they'll have to be there. They'll pay to be the conference. And I just, I do my thing and then I fly home. And I was telling someone the other day, I just, I do my thing and then I fly home. And I was telling, I was telling someone the other day, I was talking to a comedian and I was like, most of my things are at like 9 30 a.m. and then I fly home. So, you know, I know. Yeah. My, my things, most of the time require us to fly in the day before. So we don't miss

anything and then fly out the next day. So no matter what, it's a three day commitment. Yeah. But I have, it's a three day commitment. Yeah, but I have a whole toiletry bag here. That's just separate, separate toothbrush, separate like razor, everything and then different, all my separate charges all wrapped up ready to go. I always keep it in a different bag.

Except it pens, just everything. Just gotta have to be ready to grab it and run. No, that's what pros do, right? They know all the shortcuts that reduce the wear and tear on the body, on the mind. It's like, why Steve Jobs had like the one sweater. He had 50 of the same sweaters or whatever. He's like, I'm not gonna think about this every day

and that's a thing worth copying or putting your own spin on. I do the same thing and we're mostly black carhards every day. There you go. Some black Levi's jeans every day. It just makes it easier, especially when you have to wear black on tour because you spill your coffee and you might not be able to do laundry for a few days. So you got to get it or something to hide all the stains. You don't wear a Michiganer merch as a subtle billboard for the table in the back?

That's a funny thing because I I have whenever you see me in Michigan to merge it's because all my other clothes are dirty not on the road so much but like at home like I wore a hoodie yesterday and my friends like why are you wearing your own hoodie and I say I'm all my clothes are dirty I'm trying not to I'm trying to wait right before tour before I do laundry and so it's all all my favorite things are ready to go inside my suitcase. That's great. Well, I hope the tour goes well and tell me next time you swing through us and I'd love to see it. That's, I think I heard you for the first time.

It was either, I think it was either on sun radio or on, uh, on, uh, on. I think it was, I think it was Andy Langer. I think Andy Langer on, on, on, uh, on the issue. I think it was, I think it was Andy Langer. I think Andy Langer on, on, on, uh, is a big fan of it. Andy's so great. I just met him for the first time on my street. But we, I'm having dinner with him on, I'm having dinner with him on Saturday. He's come on to the bookstore. He's the best.

Tom, I said, Hey, yeah, he's the best. I will. I will. Well, I love this stuff and I've written a lot to it. And, uh, it's great. And I hope everyone listens. Thanks for having me, I appreciate it. Appreciate you.

I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you.

I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you.

I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate it. And I'll see you next episode. Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic early and ad-free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple podcasts.