The Daily Stoic - Lamb of God’s Randy Blythe on Fighting Fear With Gratitude

Episode Date: November 27, 2021

On today’s episode of the podcast Ryan talks to Lamb of God vocalist Randy Blythe about how Stoicism helped him get through his time in a Czech prison, how to find peace in the midst of uncertain circumstances, the prevalence of substance abuse in the artistic community, and more.Get his book Dark Days: https://geni.us/LbtRRandy Blythe is the lead vocalist of heavy metal band Lamb of God. Blythe joined Lamb of God in 1995, when they were still known as Burn the Priest. Before Lamb of God was successful, he had previously worked as a cook. In June 2012, Blythe was arrested in the Czech Republic and was indicted on manslaughter charges related to the 2010 death of Daniel Nosek, a 19-year-old fan, after a Lamb of God concert. The Czech court held that liability for Nosek's death lay with promoters and security members and ultimately acquitted Blythe of criminal charges.The Pod Pro Cover by Eight Sleep is the most advanced solution on the market for thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. You can add the Cover to any mattress, and start sleeping as cool as 55°F or as hot as 110°F. Right in time for the holidays, give the gift of better sleep and a present that will keep giving back, everyday of the year. Go to eightsleep.com/dailystoic this Black Friday and Cyber Monday to save on the biggest sale of the year.Centered is a Mac and Windows app that helps you get into Flow and work faster...and healthier. Join thousands of users who have discovered their Flow States by running Centered in the background while they work. Download Centered today at centered.app/stoic and use the Promo Code “STOIC” by October 31st to get a free month of Premium, and also be entered to win a variety of prizes!SimpliSafe just launched their new Wireless Outdoor Security Camera. Get the new SimpliSafe Wireless Outdoor Security Camera, visit https://simplisafe.com/stoic. What’s more, SimpliSafe is celebrating this new camera by offering 20% off your entire new system and your first month of monitoring service FREE, when you enroll in Interactive Monitoring. Again that’s https://simplisafe.com/stoic.Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://DailyStoic.com/dailyemailCheck out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookFollow Randy Blythe: InstagramSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic podcast early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic. Each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview stoic philosophers, we explore at length how these stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend when you have a little bit more space when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal and most importantly to prepare for what the week

ahead may bring. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wunderree's podcast business wars. And in our new season, Walmart must fight off target, the new discounter that's both savvy and fashion forward. Listen to business wars on Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts. You probably know I'm a heavy metal fan. I grew up on Iron Maiden and Metallica and I just love heavy metal. So a bunch of people told me that I needed to read this book by this guy who I'd heard of in the news. I think many people heard this story. Basically, he's the lead singer of this dark heavy metal band and a fan dies at one of

his shows falling off the stage. Things like that happen tragically at shows and he goes on with his life. But then years later he's arrested and thrown in a check prison and charged with the death this person. And he ended up writing an incredible memoir about it. There was actually represented by an agent who's a friend of mine, Mark Gerald, who's worked with Robert Green as well and a bunch of other cool people. I didn't know much about it. I hadn't gotten around to reading the book. Obviously, I was familiar with the band Lamb of God and listened to some of their stuff. It was just sort of existing vaguely in the back of my mind. Then we had a benefit here at the

Painted Porch couple months back. A guy came in. His name is Kirst, a very fitting name, and Kirst said, hey, you should meet my friend Randy. And he said, you might know him. He's the lead singer of Lamb of God. And it all clicked. And I emailed Mark Gerald, the friend, our mutual friend, and said, hey, I just met a friend of Randy's. And he said, you got to have him on the podcast. Kirst said the same thing. Randy came in to the bookstore a friend of Randy's and he said, you got to have him on the podcast. Kirst said the same thing. Randy came in to the bookstore a couple of months ago. We spent some time talking about writing and life and it turns out he is a huge fan of stoicism.

Literally almost every day he shares a quote from one of the stoics on his Instagram, which you can follow at Dr. Randall Bly, B-L-Y-T-H-E. But anyways, as it happens, at Dr. Randall Bly, B-L-Y-T-H-E. But anyways, as it happens, he wasn't just a recent student of stochism, but had been studying the stoches, particularly epictetus before his life was turned upside down when he was indicted

on manslaughter charges in the Czech Republic. Ultimately, he was vindicated the Czech court held that the liability for the death lay with the promoters and security members and ultimately they acquitted him on the charges. But you can imagine watching your life flip upside down that way and it was sort of a stoic thing, right? Through something no fault of your own

or not entirely your fault and suddenly fate puts you in a position that many of the stokes were experiencing, whether it's exile for epictetus or masonius rufus, whether it's trumped up charges in the case of rutilius rufus. And how do you get through that? How do you face imprisonment, although not for as long,

but as Admiral Stockdale did as well. So we talked all about that in this wonderful interview. I was really hoping to go see Lamb of God play with Megadeff here when they were in Austin. It was right in the middle of the Delta search, and I didn't feel right about with the kids. So I didn't go, but I've been very impressed with some of the stands that Randy's taken COVID protocols at the event, and then after the tragic events at the concert in Houston, some taking a stand, and speaking from experience on this,

on crowd safety at events and how to communicate. We get into all of that in the show. I highly recommend his book, Dark Days, a memoir, and I am looking forward to the sequel, which he tells me he is working on. And I really enjoyed this conversation. He is a sweet guy. If you're not interested in heavy metal at all,

don't worry about it. That's not the topic of this conversation. I think you like this interview. Good to see you, man. Yeah, how you doing? I'm doing excellent. I'm really excited to do this. You feel relaxed and replenished

after the tour, after your downtime after the tour? Not a lot of downtime since the, you know, we're not on the road, but right, you know, always working on things. So yeah. I think did you, did you find from the pandemic that you got much more used to being home? For me, it's like, now I can't comprehend how much I used to travel and then how integrated the disruption of it, how integrated with the disruption of it, I, I became with the, with this disruption of travel. Yeah, just like how, just how, how you, you got to traveling, how used, how used I, yes, I got very familiarized with the craziness of being on the road, home sometimes, not set, just like being going a

mile, a mile a minute. And now when I go travel, I go do something, I come back. I'm like, I gotta take like three days to recover from this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, man. It was a very weird tour, you know what I mean?

Like everything was so restrictive and the sort of camaraderie that you experience, particularly with other bands on the road, was fairly non-existent. I mean, we talked to each other outside our buses, but we weren't hanging out in each other's dressing rooms and all that other stuff. So it's very sort of oddly connected,

but extremely isolated at the same time. For you to be silent. Yeah, exactly. In front of thousands of people every night. So it was very bizarre, and I'm still kind of trying to make sense of it all. As far as the traveling thing and it's sort of wearing on me,

like we're going to Miami, I mean, not Miami, we're going to Fort Lauderdale tomorrow morning. We have a one gig. I'll get up and go the airport and leave it like eight and go to this big festival and Florida for one day and turn around and come back. And I'm already kind of like, because I just went to Florida for a 24 hour trip. Yeah, last week for a photo shoot. So it's really weird. You know, it's very, what was so commonplace for me is just like,

get up and go. I noticed before this last tour, one thing I noticed there was a difference is it took me a lot longer to pack, right? It was seven weeks. And I quite literally before the pandemic, I'm so used to, I can leave for two months hitting every different climate possible,

because we've done this, Finland in the winter, and then you're in Australia or whatever. So you have to bring all possible sorts of clothes. I could do that in an hour. And this time, I'm just like, oh my God, I need this. I got, I got to have my toothbrush. All these things that you're used to just having at home, you're at your rate disposal. Yeah, like I found like, I used to be able to work really

well on planes. And now I'm like, what happened? It's like I used to be able to speak this language. And now I can't speak the language anymore. And there's part of me that'm like, what happened? It's like I used to be able to speak this language and now I can't speak the language anymore. And there's part of me that's like, oh, did I lose something? And then another part of me is like, no, I'm probably used to a year and a half at home

operating on a more locked in frequency. And now I'm sitting around and I'm like, this is not a conducive environment to productive creative work. This is, this is the thing. You used to be able to write on planes. You're one of those guys right? See, I've never ever ever been that guy for some reason. I wish I mean, I have this total romantic fascination with the lost generation as Gertrude Stein. I did to the point that, you know, I've traveled the left bank of Paris and Catele, at 10 hitting every, you know, cafe and bookstore and place where Hemingway, you know, farted

or whatever, just so I could like, I could treat it. You know, and I have this romantic sort of vision of him and other people working in the cafes and writing and journaling and all this stuff. And I've tried to do that and I fail miserably every single time. I cannot have anyone around me when I'm writing. And the plane is like, even if nobody's looking, I feel they're present. I totally get it. Okay, so I want wanna talk a little bit about the tour, but let's do that at the end. Let's start with, okay, so do you know who James Stockdale is?

Yes, of course. He wrote this book after his time in the POW camp in Vietnam, and it was sort of, it's called Courage Under Fire, but the subtitle is, testing Epic Tidus's doctrine in the laboratory of human experience. Yes, I own it, it's called Courage Under Fire, but the subtitle is, testing Epic Tidus' doctrine in the laboratory of human experience. Yes, I own it. It's very short. Yes, it's almost a pamphlet, basically.

Yes, but I read it the two, three months ago. I got it. Did you get it at the painted porch? Is that where you got it by chance? Because I knew you were here. I wondered if I, we carry. I've never seen it physically anywhere. No, I mean, I didn't get it at the painting porch.

I'd ordered it on on. I've already had it before I came to the painting force. So it's a delightful little book, but I love it because it's like, here you have this guy who studied philosophy. Then he goes and experiences this horrible thing. And then he sort of is like, well, now I can tell you whether this philosophy holds up or not, right? Right.

Under, under real life, you know, live fire conditions. Exactly. Now, your experience is a little bit different, but I wanted to start there where, as someone who studied philosophy, done a lot of work on yourself both before and after, what is spending time in a check prison teach you about this stuff, right? Like how, how have you found that these ideas or any of the things that you've learned stood up to the laboratory that you found yourself trapped in for, I don't even remember exactly how long, but how did it stand up? I think, first of all, can I mention how I found out

about stoicism? Of course, yeah. So, you know, there's no, it's not a secret that I'm an alcoholic. I happen to be one who's been sober for 11 years now, you know? But yeah, I drank and drugged and partied like musicians do. Fairly, I gave it a Herculine effort for 22 years. You did your best. I did my best. I gave it the old college dropout try, right? And it just didn't work out for me in the end. I was just miserable and I wanted to die.

But towards the end of my drinking, I was looking for some sort of answer other than the one that's obviously staring me in the face, like, hey, you're an alcoholic, you gotta stop. I went to go see a shrink, this counselor, his name is Ted. I wish I could remember his last name because I think I still owe him money from our last session.

But I was going to him and I was still drinking at the time and I was complaining a lot about problems I was having in my relationship, it was my work, and all of this is stemming from my alcoholism. But he's being cool, and he's trying to deal with me without directly saying, you gotta get sober, dude. Because I was kind of beating around the bush with him. He's like, I want to, do you know who Epic teetuses?

And I'm like, no. he's like, he is a philosopher of the school of stoicism, you know, he was slave and he wrote this book called the Interidian or the Or the Manual. And I forget which translation he had. I think it's one, it's a newer one by a woman. Sharon Lebel, I had it on the podcast. Yes, yes, the art of living.

Yes, that, that's the one. Yes, so yeah, it's on my shelf over there. So I bought it and I was reading it and it was making sense, but because I was still deep within the throws of my alcoholism, I could not internalize and really apply the lessons there. But the seed was planted, you know? And then a few years later, when I got sober,

I picked epictetus back up, you know? So that was probably pretty, pretty early into my first year of sobriety, you know? And when I got arrested, I was about a year and a half sober. So I think for me, I don't think it was so much, I studied some meditation techniques via Zen Buddhism as well. Sodo Zen Buddhism, my friend, Brad Warner is a Buddhist teacher in that school. And that sitting still in recognizing reality, that came from some sort of meditation, that practice that served me well, reading some of epictetus at that time. I hadn't gotten into Marcus Aurelius or Seneca yet, but reading epictetus and trying to, I think I internalized some of like his external conditions

did not define his emotional state. Because he was a slave who was, we don't know to what degree crippled, I suppose. And thinking about that and thinking about the end of my drinking where I was so miserable and just wanted to die when I was in prison, I was like, this sucks, right? There's no way around it. This is not a good time.

And it's very scary and all that other stuff. But I at least want to live. I at least want to sort of make the best of this situation, whereas a year and a half ago, I didn't care if I lived or died. So there's like these little things. Yeah, the little things, the little things became extremely important in prison. But I actually, I wrote a friend of mine from prison where I was like, I would rather do another five or 10 years in here than drink again because I think I can survive five or 10 years in here. You never know, but I think I can do it, but I'm pretty sure I would not survive another

round without calling. You know, I'd blow my brains out or someone would kill me or something like that. So I tried to remain grateful for like the things I had rather than becoming resentful for the things I didn't have, you know? And I think that's kind of a key for me to regulate my emotional temperature, I suppose, most of the time, when I'm good, when I actually sit back and do that, I've failed at it miserably a lot. I think it is. We all do, but I try at least. You know. So, so the timeline is you were introduced to the Stoics,

you're struggling with sobriety, you start to get sober, and then this all happens. So you're carrying that into what must have been a surreal bewildering, I need a drink series of moments over like a year and a half. Right, yes. But yes, yes, that's what definitely.

But I would not characterize it as a I needed drink. I mean, maybe for normal people, I think that was a big fear of my friends, my family, my business associates there. I know it was because they told me they were worried I was going to drink. And honestly, it was the last thing on my mind because I was like, I don't know what's going to happen. And here I have, I don't have a crystal ball. I have to stay present, I have to stay in the moment. But I do know that if I get drunk, it's definitely not gonna help things at all. Because I have proven that with 22 years of hard research,

I'm a knucklehead. So I did two decades, I think it saved to assume that I could, you know, with great confidence, say that drinking, you know, is not only not going to solve my problems, is going to make things worse. Sure. You know, so how does the philosophy hold up then? I mean, you obviously hadn't spent years studying it, but, suddenly, your freedom is taken from you. And not that dissimilar to the way a pectitis or stock deal or any of the stoics who sort of experience this kind of severe adversity.

How does it stand up? It does. It stands up 100%. I'm not going to say that I was like this bodhisattva like figure of calm in prison at all times, you know? Because I just wasn't. But, and I was facing a very uncertain future. But the sort of philosophy of embracing your current circumstances

and not trying to, not trying to, I don't know, wish futilely that you were anywhere but where you are, right? At that moment, it works. It works so well. I saw people in there who were miserable always thinking, oh, you know, this person did me wrong and that's why I'm here.

And I'll, or conversely, constantly projecting in the future, when I get out of here, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. And I'm like, we have to take care of right here right now, you know? Because that's all that really exists. If I have one foot in the past and one foot in the future, I'm pissing on the present. And even though right now sucks, you know, I have to address my situation right now.

And I have to be cognizant of the fact that, that A, I'm not in like, let's say, Afghanistan or something, getting shot at, you know, I have a roof over my head. Is it leaky and 137 years old? Yes. Is I have food? Is it terrible? Yes. But it's not stockdails prison. It's not stockdails is prison. Yes, no, it's not. And, you know, I have, you know, I know guys who did a lot more time than me,

and they came out and survived it. And I have a lot of friends that always bring up, like as I just did, like Afghanistan or something, I have friends and gone through some horrific stuff in the military. It wasn't a good time for me, but I know people who have been through worse, you know? And that gives me sort of grounding

in the state of my current reality. That's one of the things that has annoyed me the most about this freaking pandemic and the new cycle and so forth is the, I wish we could make this term outlawed until someone, until everybody promises to use it correctly, which is unprecedented, the term unprecedented. And he's unprecedented times. They're very unprecedented. They're entirely precedent. And you know, in the last 100 years, even the violent, the violent toilet paper hoarders, we had that in the 70s, you know, in the last 100 years, even the violent toilet paper hoarders, we had that in the

70s, you know, during the gas shortage, Johnny Carson made a joke on TV, he's like, oh, you know, what else are short on toilet paper? That's that off of four months, toilet paper hoarding spree. There were fights in the grocery store. This is ridiculous. So this, I think this feeling of like these people, a lot of people in the media does, I think this feeling of like these people, a lot of people, and the media does, I help these unprecedented times, these unprecedented times, these unprecedented times, it's not to me because I was raised by a grandmother

who was raised during the depression and I was constantly reminded that I didn't know what hard times were, you know? Stuff is a group of stories like that. So it's not unprecedented. Well, even your situation tragically is not only not unprecedented, it's not uncommon, right? The fact that it happened to a musician

for something that happened while they were performing on stage was a little unusual. Yes. But like, I mean, prisons are filled with people in precisely your situation, tragically. But there's dozens of memoirs about specifically what you were going through. Yes, 100%.

Mine just got a little attention right from beginning because I'm a fairly well-known musician. That's the only other thing. But I mean, what everybody, what was the most common question I guess when I got out, like, was it like midnight express, you know, the guy who went to the Turkish prison or whatever. Yeah, no, it wasn't that bad.

It was pretty bad, but it wasn't that bad. You know, I gotta give you that. Well, I wrote down four emotions that I suspect you would have experienced, or that I suspect I would experience if I was in your situation. I'd love to know how you process them or thought about them while you're right. So the first I guess it's not really an emotion, but the sense of unfairness, right? Why me? This isn't right. It shouldn't have happened to me. How do you process that feeling, which I imagine must have been the most,

a pretty straightforward one? I think perhaps there was some of that, like this sucks, why me? And there was a sort of political aspect to the situation for sure, with the prosecuting attorney particularly. I think there was some of that, but not really that much. I was too worried about trying to do, and well, do the right thing for myself and for the situation in the time and not do anything that would make the situation worse. I think it was just so abrupt in such a reality check that it wasn't really like, why did

this happen to me? You know? And in fact, you know, in thinking precisely about the specifics, and I've talked to a bunch of other musicians when I got out. I mean, we had security protocols in place, the contract, all this other stuff that was not meant, the whole thing was a tragic accident, one that I carried with me till I'm dead. This is something, you know, but it was something that was kind of waiting to happen sooner later. It just was. And so I know. Just fell on you. Yeah, I told a bunch of my musician friends are like, damn dude, you caught the bullet. And

I'm like, yes, everybody pay attention. Like, block, make sure security is tight, make sure the barricades are placed correct. Everybody, and you know, a lot of people paid a lot of attention to that, you know. So I don't think it was so much why me. I was a little too worried about trying to, trying to, I don't know, trying to do the correct thing. So what about fear, right? What's going to happen to me? What could happen to me in prison? You know, how did you deal with the fear? You know, sometime it was a minute to minute thing. I mean, it's scary. I was the top news story in that country for a while. And I went to first to a jail,

a city jail for three days, and then they sent me to prison for 37, I think, pancrat's prison. And the first time I walked into the cell block, everybody, they were lying to you and though everybody went, and looked at me, you know, it's like It was like a scene in the movie and everyone there knew who I was because I was a new story, you know, so it was pretty scary I think

I just tried to take things one minute at a time and And that's something I learned in sobriety, right? In getting sober because when you first get sober, and it's a cliche, you hear it say, one day at a time, you know. When that worked, it was an invaluable tool for me in prison and handling fear. Sometimes it's just one minute at a time. Like here's this new situation. I'm not going to try and project

too many catastrophic outcomes upon this. If I can, I'm just going to handle this one second at a time. So there was that sort of trying to stay in the moment and not catastrophize everything, you know. And then there was also everything, you know. And then there was also, because, you know, for lack of a better term, I believe in a god or a higher power. I'm not talking about, you know, the dude in the robes, the Judeo-Christian or whatever tradition. I just believe in a, in some sort of higher power. And I constantly, constantly, constantly was talking

to that higher power and saying, not saying, please, please get me out of this because I didn't know what the truth of the situation was. I was curious too, because this was an incident that happened two years previous that I had no memory of, that we didn't know anything that happened, but I was asking, you know, God, for lack of a better term.

I'm like, just give me the strength to get through this with dignity. And I did not ask for a specific outcome. I'm like, just give me the strength to get through this with some dignity no matter what the outcome is. Is this thing all? Check one, two, one, two.

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and app-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. So what about anger? Like, this is a little related to the unfairness, but what about anger? Like, this is a little related to the unfairness, but what about anger? I'm sure there was frustration at the injustice of it or the disversion of it or there was definitely some, you know, there's most of the people, nobody in the prison mess with me, first of all, they all knew why I was there, and they're like, oh, this is money,

this is political stuff, you know? But there were some guards there who were not cool. Like, not cool guys. And like, I really had to watch my temper around him. And because you like, you know, acting out and fighting a prison guard just doesn't end well. It just doesn't end well for you, you know, it never does. No matter how much of an asshole they are. So I mean, there was some of that, you know, but I like, I think everything relates to me through the lens of my alcoholism, right?

And I learned that I cannot really afford to sit in an anger. Like everybody gets anger over things, you know, somebody does, and people should get angry over some things. But for me and my situation, if I were to get angry and just sit and angry, this sucks, why are they, you know, why have they doubled my bail, which they did, you make bail and then they double it. That's not how it works here, you know? Yeah. I can be angry about it and then just sit there and be angry. Or I can, you know, let that pass through me and try and be a little bit more productive. And that's what I really tried to be in prison was productive. And actually enjoyed it.

It's, I wrote about it in my book and some people are kind of bummed about it. But I found that I actually enjoyed moments of stillness. In prison, I was like, what is going on? I'm actually kind of happy right now. And it's like, oh yeah, you are an on tour, constantly going, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it locked me into a specific place.

Everything I tried to focus on involve gratitude, basically. And that helped me fight fear and anger and uncertainty. And it's just like trying to remain grateful for what I had rather than resentful for what I didn't have. What about guilt and sadness about what had happened? How did you deal with, I'm thinking about this with like the Alligbaldwin situation. Like, something happens, you're there. How do you, whether or not you accept,

I'm not talking about you, specifically, but whether one takes full responsibility for something or not or blame for it, it still doesn't change that had happened and there would be feelings about that. Right, yes, that is definitely true. And that's a sort of complex, how do you deal with that?

It's like a complex topic. I mean, for me, first of all, it was most important for me to find out to the best of my ability exactly what had happened, right? Because a young fan of my band had died as a result of an injury, you know, at this show. And people, they were, the family of this young man just wanted to know what had happened to their son, right?

Who wouldn't? You're a parent. It's something happened to your kid. They never came at me in the press. They never attacked me. I got really lucky because I don't know if I would have been that level headed, you know. Oh, if they get the shoe is on the other foot. Yeah. You know, they they didn't I got exceedingly lucky and and I decided that no matter what happened, I was going to do my best to provide these people with an answer to the best of my ability,

to the best of my memory of what had happened that night two years previously. I played thousands of shows. It's like, most people can't tell me, oh, what did you do on Wednesday night, two years ago? It's seven between seven and eight 30 PM. Right. You know, while you were in some sort of flow state.

Yeah, exactly. While you're working, like it's crazy. So, but there were so many different rumors and so forth that I was like, you know, I need to find out to the best of my ability. I'm pretty sure I never tried to hurt anyone because that's why would I? That's our plan.

Right? Right. Right. Right. Right. That's moronic. But what if for me, I was, I don't want to say curiosity and intellectual curiosity, but there was a need to know

if somebody had brought some sort of evidence or truth that said, you know, hey, you did this on purpose and I somehow spaced it, then I would have to be willing to accept responsibility. So I decided, you know, if I'm going to face myself in the mirror and call myself a good man and a cannibal man, I'm going to do my best to provide these people with these answers. And that's what I did, you know, I got out on bail and we went on tour to try and pay for my five different lawyers and then went back to trial twice, you know. And luckily, it was found not guilty. That, the thing for me, how do I deal with it is like, I had a talk with the family of this young man.

After I was found in Ikeilty, they wanted to talk with me and the young man's mother and his uncle. And a lot of the stuff we discussed is private. You know, I'm not that's not going to be that. But one thing that the uncle said to me that I know is they would be happy. And I've spoke on this for he goes, Hey, dude, remember you can be a spokesperson for safer shows. You can help make this happen, you know, you. Yeah. So this doesn't happen. And I view that as a responsibility, you know, and for me, one way of dealing with the

emotions and of course, there's feelings of guilt. And even though it's a terrible accident, of course, you know, someone ran in front of your car, even if you weren't to blame, you would feel guilty. Yeah, and you feel that to some degree or at least passes my mind daily, you know, there's not a day. I don't think it goes by that I don't think about the what happened and that young man. But for me, one way of dealing that is to get myself into a course of action, a positive course of action to try and help people or to speak on, make sure that these sort of events are safer,

at least on an RN and tragically, which just happened last week. Yeah. And that was, you know, pardon my French, but that was a cluster fuck. And, you know, there was, I have a lot of opinions on what happened and not all of it is because I'm not going to armchair quarterback the whole situation because I wasn't there. And I know how rough it is to be on stage and not be able to see what's going on. But I do know that just like in my situation, in my situation, I should have stopped the show

that we played. That's where I accept the responsibility. I should have stopped this fucking show because it was dangerous and we did stop and did tell people don't get on stage and then it kept happening and kept happening. I should have walked off stage. That's what should have happened in Houston, you know, because the and the fire marshal of Houston said that one person who has the power really to deescalate to stop this in a tactical sense is the

performer, the guy with the mic, you know, and he was absolutely correct. So, and, you know, just as I should have just said, we're done and walked off, I think in that situation, he could have at least said, hey, we're stopping playing now, lights are coming up, everybody back up, because it was obvious something was wrong, you know. I mean, there's, there's the worry of causing a riot, believe me, I've been there, you know, but there's also a way to, you have a microd, there's also a way to control this situation, you know. Yeah, there's a, we talked about Bruce Dickinson when you visited, but there's a great Iron Maiden clip where he stops a show in the middle because people are beating the shit out of

each other and it's fallen apart. And you have a certain amount of power there with the microphone, but it also takes courage and focus and empathy to be able to be like, people are gonna hate me for this, but I gotta do what I think is right. There are the responsible thing is. We've done that and we have stopped shows, you know, our band has

been around for like 27 years now. I've been in the band 26, you know, we have stopped shows because of fights, because of injuries, because of people grabbing girls, crowdsurfing inappropriately. We've been doing this forever since before, you know, anything happened with me and I went to prison and there's, you know, it's, it's just something if you, if you know how to, like, address the crowd and say, hey, you know, like, stop. Let's help these people because if you were down, wouldn't you want someone to help you and people are like, oh, okay. And, you know, anyway, to get back to our point, I kind of view that as my responsibility, if I'm in a play in front of these large crowds of people.

And that is one way that I sort of temper my emotions around what happened. I'm proactive about it. Well, I think it's really interesting because the process you talked about of like, I'm going to see what happened. I'm going to go through this and then based on the evidence or the information, I'm going to decide, you know, what I owe society or these people, what my level of sort of guilt

or responsibility is. The interesting part of that is how intention, our self-interest from our obligation can be, right? There's that famous uptoncine clair line where he says it's hard to get someone to understand something when their salary depends on them not understanding it. Yeah, I'm about to imagine it's hard to get someone to understand something when their freedom potentially depends on them not understanding it.

So I imagine you probably felt like the idea of like, I'm an open book, let's get to the bottom of this. There must have been a part of you that was also like, that's a very vulnerable place to be because what it means is you're not saying, I'm going to fight this and protect myself from the consequences no matter what, right? Like there's a tension between what the best legal strategy is and what the best, like being the best person strategy is.

And I imagine you wrestled with that a little bit. Yeah, there was a, yeah, that's, that's a good, good analysis of the situation actually. I mean, it's why they tell you not to take the stand in your own defense, right? Right. But here's, let me explain something to you about the way that the courts work in the Czech Republic. It's different, right? So there's three judges.

There's a professional judge and then two lay judges who are like jurors, right? So a majority vote, the two lay judges who were like jurors, right? So, you know, a majority vote, the two lay judges can vote against the professional judge and it will still go. Most of the time though, the lay judges vote along with the professional judge. And it's an older legal system because up until 1989, the Czech Republic was Czechoslovakia, it was a communist country, you know, and they had what they called the Velvet Revolution as the iron curtain fell down. So it's an older court system, I can't remember exactly the name of it, but there's a lot of,

I don't know, these were people that were raised during communist era, Russia. And so we had to explain things to them, like, what does mashing mean? What does crowd surfing mean? These are people who grew up never, not in a heavy metal scene, right? They had no clue of what all that meant. So there was all this sort of like video documentation

that we presented like this is what a concert is like. Because of these people, the outside untrained eye, it probably just like some sort of demonic sacrifice or something. I know. And it was part of like my legal strategy that I formulated with the teams to be as honest as possible and explain the reality of what one of these shows is like.

And I said to prior to them reading the Senate's the decision, I was like, I do not wish to avoid any responsibility that I may hold in this matter because I didn't, but I do not believe that I am guilty of the charge that was, you know, I've been charged with, the crime I've been charged with. And it worked, you know, like these people, I think they saw that I was, I hate to use the word intellectually curious, but I was interested in finding out the truth of the matter. You know what I mean?

I, because I didn't want to avoid responsibility, because I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror in the morning. And it wasn't like I got a parking ticket, you know what I mean? Right. Like I'm not going back to Colorado for a few years because I have a parking ticket. It's like this is serious business. I have to deal with this. And I think I just told the truth and it worked, you know? It wasn't like, I don't know, trying to

I didn't try to color anything in an unrealistic manner. If that makes any sense. Yeah, no, no, it doesn't. It makes total sense. So let's go back to the sobriety thing because I've always been interested in that. Why do you think? I don't know if it's actually based on statistics, but it does seem to be an impression. You said you were sort of drugged and partied like a professional. Like a rock star. What is it about the creative professions that seems to either bring that out

or attract or enable that tendency? Well, it definitely enables it. And it's particularly in heavy metal. I mean, as long as you can get your ass up on stage and not make too much of a disgrace against you, it's expected that you're going to party. I think that sort of paradigm is shifting. I think younger people are realizing more and more that it's not cool to be a junked out mess. That business decision. Yes, it's bad. It really is. It definitely enables that though. It just does because it's expected.

As far as it attracting that, the artist, I guess, the sort of cultural myth of the artist as a drug addict or as an alcoholic. That exists, right? It certainly exists. And a lot of people buy into it, including I did myself for many years, not just in the music thing, but as far as writing, right? I was like, like any other angst-ridden, 20-something. I'm like, I'm big-temning way. Hemingway, dude. Love Hemingway. Love Bukowski. Love Hunter S Thompson. You know, and all these guys are hard, drinking, hard, partying guys. And so, you know, I did all that. I drank, I'd womanized, I'd party, I'd gotten some fights.

I did everything that those guys did, except for sit down and write. You know? I was getting ready. So there's like the sort of cultural mythos that sells that. And I think a lot of, maybe the one reason why it's so prevalent beyond it, like that that's sort of expected and there's this cultural sort of mythos around it.

I think a lot of it is that it's cliche, but a lot of art comes out of pain, right? I know it has for me. And one way that people treat pain is they medicate themselves. You know, so I think there could be sort of that part of it too. Yeah, it's like you think, hey, so it's like the pain partly is what makes you creative. The pain is also what makes you driven to achieve and get adulation and recognition. And maybe there's a part of you that thinks, oh, once I get it, the pain will go away.

Right. Because now I'm famous, now I've performed for millions of people, and now I have fans. And it's not only not true, but also the lifestyles of grind. And you need something just to get you through the grind of a seven-month or a two and a half year tour And so it's sort of a wicked cycle where you bring something to it it it doesn't solve your problem and

It exacerbates the problem because you live in untethered existence. Yes You know alcohol was not my problem. Alcohol was my solution. Regrettably, it is a very ineffective solution after a while. I had some good times drinking. I didn't immediately have a beer and then turn into a bomb and a trench coat. You're in stained pants beneath the bridge somewhere. I worked hard to get where I was.

But I viewed alcohol as a way, it was a way to quieten the voices of my head that I hadn't learned how to cope with. And a lot of anger at the way the world is. A lot of quote unquote justified anger, you know, that just became overwhelming because the world was not behaving as I wanted it to, you know. I had a lot of expectations. Why can't people just be cool? Why can't they behave in an ethical manner? Why do they have to do this? Why, why, why, why, you know, all these expectations and expectations are just premeditated resentments, you know. So do you think that?

Do you think that part of what makes someone a good athlete or a good musician or a good inventor or sculptor or whatever it is is sort of a compulsiveness, right? Like I can't not write and when I don't write it's painful, right? And the desire to to fiddle and return over and over again to get something exactly right is inherently a compulsive behavior, just as any addiction is a compulsive behavior, just as whatever you're vaping is probably a, you have a compulsive thing and it's the last. The last, the last of my vices. The naked thing. You know, yeah, it's a son of a bitch.

It's so the existential and physical distress. Yes, I think, you know, as far as like for me as a creative person, I do not, if I, if I do not create, you're right, it is compulsive. And one way or the other, whether it be photography, writing or music, if I am not, if I, if I do not create, you're right, it is compulsive. And one way or the other, whether it be photography, writing or music, if I am not creating a lot, then I, I get very restless and very irritable and very discontent. And I think that's because for me, making art is my way of understanding my life in that moment of creation.

It's kind of how I understand myself. It's how I process all the stuff that is coming at me and I'm like, okay, I'm feeling this because of this and I can turn it into a song or an article or whatever. You know? Yeah. It's how I understand life, you know? And how you get through life, yes, precisely.

So I was talking to my friend, Tanks and Atra, he's like a meme guy. I know he was. He was saying the other day, he was talking to something, he has like 20 years sober or something. And he was saying, he was talking to someone, he's like, look, some people drink away the pain,

some people screw away the pain, some people screw away the pain, some people smoke away the pain, some people work away the pain. And he said the person just looked at him and she said, what pain? And to me, that's the distinction. I was trying to talk about, talk to my wife about that.

It's like a normal person who doesn't have the wound or the pain, it's incomprehensible. Why do you would need to do any of these things? Because it's a solution to a problem that they do not have. Right. Right. Yeah. Not everybody is screwed up as me. I have to realize that. I have to be cognizant of that fact, you know, that there are normal well-adjusted folks out there. That being said, most of the people I surround myself with, in one way or the other, are off-kilter-sum. That's why I feel at home around them, I suppose. I really wouldn't know what to do in a crowd of that bunch of people, nobody's ever been arrested or divorced or some sort of horrible traumatic event has happened to them.

But those people exist. I don't understand that. Like the woman said, what pain is just like, I don't understand how someone can just have one beer. I don't get it. Yeah, like I know people can do it. I know it's possible. I've watched it happen many times, but it's just like, why? How can you do that? Why, you know, I want it all. Yeah, I don't know. It's that compulsive thing, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just a hand that we get dealt and then we have to figure out once it becomes clear that you can't do it moderately, you have to do it not at all. Right? 100%.

And, you know, I don't think I made myself an alcoholic, right? When I was a little kid, I didn't say, you know what, I wanna grow up and be an alcoholic and ruin my fucking relationships and worry my family and everybody. I think for whatever reason, I just happen to get that, you know? So while I don't think it's my fault I am,

person is my responsibility to deal with it. And I think that's with anyone and their problems in life, whatever hand fate has dealt them, you can't be moaned but so much. There comes a point where you have to say, okay, I have this problem, what am I going to do about it? What am I going to do with this problem?

How am I going to find a way to live with this? It's not your fault, but it's still your problem. Yeah, it's your problem, you know? Like it sucks, but I feel bad for anyone who has any sort of difficulty, but that's your problem, that's your responsibility to deal with. It's your life. I can't live it for you, no one can.

Well, this idea of responsibility, it's sort of where I wanted to end up. We don't have to talk about specific people if you don't want to, but I found it interesting during COVID. You're talking about the power of the musician on stage with the mic, right? You might not be, have the most authority, but you've got the most power, right?

Or you might not have legal accountability for what you're doing, but you still have a certain obligation, right? It's been interesting to me in COVID, all different types of businesses, public figures, people, etc. And I think you and I are relatively aligned on this, but figures, people, et cetera. And I think you and I are relatively aligned on this, but you disagree if you don't. But people have just sort of said like, what do I owe other people? What do I owe society, right? This is my job, for instance, is to go around performing indoors with large amounts of people smashed together. Why should I stop doing that in the middle of a deadly pandemic?

Right? And then other people have said, you know, I'm not going to do that because it's the wrong thing to do. Right? Sort of different. How have you thought about that, not just in terms of COVID but your career, you know, we talk about being a role model, we talk about what sort of messages you put out in the music,

how one uses their platform. How have you thought about that? It's very interesting. You would ask that, you know, because before we left on the last tour, the actually the day before the first day of tour, I put up this Instagram post. I was like, it showed us doing a pyro check, actually in Austin, not too far from you.

And it's like, this is what I would suggest. If you're going to come to a show, be vaccinated, and also wear a mask. Is it going gonna suck? It's gonna be uncarpable, yes, but you can do it. And because I wore masks the whole time when I wasn't on stage, except for wearing our tour bus. And it was so we're hot, it was outdoors, it sucked. You know, no doubt about it.

But it's what I felt was necessary for us to be able to do this safely. And it was, oh man, because there's so many different people with different, like, I don't control a whole tour, you know what I mean? There was another band on there where the front man of the tour had some very different opinions about what was, you know, what was right and what was wrong or what was real.

But I tried to just do to the best of my ability, the right thing to take care of myself and the people around me. And we looked at the situation at the time and it outdoors, you know, and I don't blame people who didn't come. Some people didn't come to the show because of this. I would have loved to come. I just, I know. I don't make it work. Yeah, no, of course not. Right.

But it's, it was, it felt like, and we made it all the way to end our tour. We're one of the few bands that did it, you know. And I think that's because the majority of people on the tour were very cautious. You mean, you made it without any cases just blowing up the plans? Yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, there was like, there were some crew cases that happened and they immediately

isolated, you know, off the tour, put in a hotel for however many days until it can go away. But it was sort of the train left station. It was it was a very strange. I felt like almost like we were the canaries in the coal mine. Like they sort of experiment. And I kind of looked at it in that way. In like I can try and do my best to do this safely to see if we can pull this off. And we did, you know, we did. And other people, I don't know what happened

with other tours, but I know I do know some inside stuff that I'm not gonna gossip about, you know, that some people caught COVID on other tours because this or that or the other, you know, they weren't cautious. And then they'd spread through other things. All I tried to do was control myself and do that to the best of my ability,

but it's definitely, there's some self questioning going on there. But what I thought was so interesting about the message that you posted is, it was bad for business, right? Like you were telling people that to do a thing that was in their interest, but financially, not really in your interest. No, not in my interest at all.

And I still speak at things that are not in my financial interest, you know, it's it's it, but it's interesting how people struggle with that, right? Like it seems obvious. Like why would you tell, but it seems obvious. And yet, like I've been amazed, I've not just been amazed at people who haven't spoken up about things. I'm not just talking about COVID.

It's like, you have a platform, you should use that platform to say what you think, you know, to make the world a better place if you like. And then you have people like the person you mentioned or there's some other musicians who, you know, you sort of think is a person who's tethered to reality or a good person and then you have people like the person you mentioned or there's some other musicians who, you know, you sort of think is a person who's tethered to reality or a good person. And then you're like, oh, you not only don't think

you have an obligation, you went the other way. Your thing makes the world an actively worse place, right? You're using your platform to spread misinformation or to rye people up or to divide them. It's kind of, it's interesting. But now, but do people who, like, suppose you're a musician and you get up there and you're like, this isn't real,

the government is like controlling us. This is all a scam and they're putting nanobots in the vaccine or whatever the fuck it is, right? Like, those people, I don't, and it's hard, it's hard to look at these people's compassion sometimes, but I think some of those people think they're doing the right thing. I know.

They believe. And to, I mean, it's common sense to me, obviously the pandemic is real, and vaccines work, and all this other stuff, it's just common sense, but to sit there and, I suppose like, I don't know, sit in some sort of high horse of judgment and say these fucking idiots like they're spreading this misinformation or whatever.

For me, it's kind of an interesting question. It's like, why do you believe this? You know, why? Why? Why? When the evidence is so clearly, it's on the other side, you know? But these people do believe it. You know, I was talking to someone the other day with like a very large but a very famous person, and they were sort of quietly, this was off the record, but they were like, you know, telling some, some, let's just call it un, not factual based things, right? About COVID, right? Just like, what about this? What about this?

What about this? And I'm sort of like, well, you know, here's, here are the facts, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and the response was sort of like, oh, well, I don't know that much about this, right? And then it's like, then shut the fuck up, right? Like, so it's this interesting thing where people struggle, I think, with stopping and thinking about the implications or the consequences of their words or actions, right? And I think this

goes back to what we're talking about about with a musician on stage and the crowd getting unruly. It's like, yeah, stopping the show is going to be unpopular and they're a risk associated with it, but not doing something. It's also risky. And so how do you, with great power, comes great responsibility, I guess, the old expression. Yes, it's true. And it's a sticky thing. And it's, you know, we're going to play this festival this weekend. I'm just going to put something up in my Instagram stories because apparently people at that gig were waving their hands

and some of them were chanting and all that stuff. From the performer's perspective, I guess there were what, 50K people at that festival. Oh, the Astral World? Yeah, yeah. I think it was 50k. I mean, we've played audiences twice that size. Nothing has happened because A, we're from a subculture

where it may look extremely violent, but everybody takes care of each other. Yeah. There's a subculture. There's rules and understanding. Yeah, there's an unwritten sort of code. We watch out for each other. But even in that situation, things can go wrong.

And as a performer, being on stage with lights in your face and all that, it's impossible to keep your eye on 50,000 people all at once. And if people are waving their hands like this, that blends into a whole other crowd. Right? So like what I've seen personally that has made me or my bandmates notice when something is wrong is when people go like this over their head. I can fix. Sure. In Japanese, it's called the vatsu. It means something's wrong. You know, or you can't come in here, but that's pretty, that's also a air traffic controller

like stop. Right. Or, or like this over your head, time out, time out, time out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People will notice that by the way, anyway, who's going to a festival, put a big extra of the time outside of your head if something's a matter. I've noticed it. You know, people just waving their hands and screaming and 50,000 people in the audience, you don't notice anything, you know? Um, so I don't know why I just said that other than I wanted to. No, it's because it's a valuable thing. No, I think what you're saying is you can't afford, like, new events have reminded you of the seriousness of the, or the stakes of the

sitch of the job that you do. Yes. And so how can you can you proactive with the stone? So how do you proactively communicate ways of avoiding precisely that kind of tragedy and to be able to speak to people or specifically that crowd and go, Hey, we're going to get crazy tonight. But if something's the if something's the matter, here's how you can communicate that with me. And we can avoid an unnecessary tragedy. Yes, that's why I said that. Also, in such a clear manner as you, and base it and stoicism at all, I was just like, I need to get this out of my mind before I forget, incase anyone listens to this, put your hands up in an X above your head. It's important. It's very important. And it doesn't bring the people back who have perished,

but it is a way to, so it doesn't undo the tragedy, but it prevents us from unnecessarily compounding the tragedy by continuing it. Right. And also, I keep saying it, that we're part of a sub-sculpture where there's rules and so forth. I can only speak to the people that are going to listen to me. And those are the ones that are going to come out and see us. And so for me, it's important to communicate

in a clear manner to our audience, not try and bring up the Kardashians and say, you should have done this, or whatever. I have to be an effective agent of change within the parameters of my existence. Within the dichotomy of your control, as the Stokes would say. Yeah. So last question, because one of your biggest songs is titled this, it's a theme in your writing, it's a theme obviously in heavy metal, and then you've been up close and personal with it.

Talk to me about mental mori and what that means to you, and maybe what you took watching the possibility of your life or your freedom being taken from you, your livelihood being taken from you, which is a form of death in the modern world. What is this idea of meditating on your mortality mean to you? In my pocket at all. There you go. I love seeing that.

And actually, it's my second one because the first one I left in a cab somewhere. Just hit me up, hit me up anytime you lose them and I'll replenish here the best. For me, I think the concept momentamoree, and I'd heard it before I really started tying it with stoicism I heard. Someone told me he's like, oh, the monks, the ancient monks, the Christian monks would say this,

remember one day, you two shall die. And as I get older, and I'm writing about this in the new book I'm working on some, I think more and more about my mortality because physically I feel it. My body hurts more and more as a 50-year-old man who still acts like he's 17 on stage. I feel it more and more and more and more and more people that are older than me that are either family or friends are dying. So that is bringing my mortality closer to my own face. And I think I see people who try and deal with death, I think, by ignoring it. Sure. And I think that's actually a huge problem in our culture now, particularly

with elderly people, people put them in a home and lock them away. And whereas they used to die at home, right? And I think we've lost that sort of intimate relationship with death within our families we used to have. So for me, like, for instance, my grandma died like 10 days just before the tour started. I was sorry. It's all right. She was 100 years old.

Wow. Yes. So she experienced the first pandemic. Yes, in infancy. But she, I was with her every day for the last three weeks of her life when she went to hospice and all that other stuff. And I watched her slowly decline. And I was there and present with her every day for the last three weeks of her life when she went to hospice and all that other stuff and I watched her slowly decline and I was there and present with her. You know, and I a family member always was and I was there the night she died, I spent the night by her side.

And it was extremely important to me and to the rest of my family that a family member was there because we don't want to let them die alone. Sure. that a family member was there because we don't want to let them die alone. Sure. And that's just not the way we are. So, for me, being there is such an honor to be there because this woman helped raise me so much, to be there and provide some manner or measure of comfort and let her know she wasn't leaving this world alone was so important to me. But it also made me reflect on my own alone, it was so important to me, but it also made me reflect on my own situation. And the whole meditating on depth, I think for some people, it seems depressing or whatever.

And for me, it's just maintaining a firm grasp on reality and trying to, it encouraged me to make the most of what time I have here, You know, it really does because it's fleeting. And the more you become aware of mortality, the less time you have to waste on frivolous things, you know, which I spent a lot of time doing. So, and also the sort of iconography of momentum orum or even the skull and all that stuff. Skoles are, I'm in a heavy metal band, it's just cool. That's far.

No, I think in the Czech Republic, if I'm, there's a church made out of it. I went there after I was pronounced not guilty. I have pictures from it. It's just for people who don't know what we're talking about. It's a church made out of the bones of the monks who served there. What happened was, yes, there's a couple of osteoarthritis in here,

but what happened is, is a small, it's like, I don't know, 45 minutes outside of Prague, we took a train there, me and my lawyer. But a priest there, back in the day, went to the Holy Land, went to Israel, and he came back and he had some soil from Israel, and he put it on the church grounds. So everybody wanted to be buried there, right? Because it's holy.

So soon, the graveyard was filled up. Everybody in the village had died or whatever, and no more room there. But then the plague came, and all these people died, and they just dumped all these bodies on the church grounds. And they had no more room to bury them. So they just turned them into this incredibly ornate chapel, downstairs and upstairs. It's thousands of skulls and so forth, to walk through there.

It was really intense to be there. Could you put your problems in perspective? Yes, that's what it's about, you know, like perspective. Well, and just to tie it back to your grandmother, again, we say unprecedented times. And it's like, no, there are people who are alive who experience this exact thing a hundred years ago. And many times since in the last 100 years and worse.

Yes. World War II, you know, like it's a, there is no normal. Normal is awful in a way, right? Normal is this kind of stuff. Yeah, 100%. And it's just, I think in our society where everybody, this sort of digital society where everybody's glued to their phone constantly looking

for this update, update, update, update of the latest now, now, now, now, now, like we lose this big picture. We really do. And I find that I remain on a much more even emotional keel when I remember that I am just one small grain of sand and in the vast beach that is time. You know, my experience is just one tiny little piece. That's a beautiful place to stop, man.

Look, I'm so glad we got connected and that I got to meet you and I can't wait to see you on the next tour. Yes, sir. My new book, Courage is Calling is now officially in New York Times bestseller. Thank you so much to everyone who supported the book. It was literally and figuratively overwhelming. We signed almost 10,000 copies of the book, which just you know it hit me right here and I appreciate it so much. If you haven't picked up a copy or you want to pick up a sign copy as a gift, please do. You can get your copy at dailystoic.com. Slash Courage is calling or you can just go to store.dailystoic.com. Hey, Prime Members!

You can listen to the Daily Stoic early and ad-free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple podcasts. with Wondery Plus in Apple podcasts.