The Daily Stoic - Musonius Rufus Stoic Fragments: PT 1

Episode Date: October 23, 2022

This episode comes out for free on 10/23/22. Today’s episode features two sections from the lesser known Musonius Rufus Stoic Fragments: That Man Is Born With An Inclination Toward Virtue and That Women Too Should Study Philosophy. Pick up a copy of That One Should Disdain Hardships: The Teachings of a Roman Stoic by Musonius Rufus at the Painted Porch Bookshop.✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic Podcast early and add free on Amazon Music. Download the app today. Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic Podcast. On Sundays, we take a deeper dive into these ancient topics with excerpts from the Stoic texts, from the Stoic texts, audio books that you like here recommend here at Daily Stoic, and other long form wisdom that you can chew on on this relaxing weekend. We hope this helps shape your understanding of this philosophy and most importantly that you're able to apply it to actual life. Thank you for listening. of life. Thank you for listening. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wunderree's podcast business wars. And in our new season, Walmart must fight off target, the new discounter that's both savvy and fashion forward. Listen to business wars on Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoke Podcast. Today's episode is an excerpt from a lesser known stoke, but one that I have really come to admire. Not just for his progressive and forward-thinking views on, for instance, gender. Mussoni's Rufus famously talks about how both men and women deserve to be taught philosophy, which was, as I said, pretty progressive for a turn of the millennia realm. But he also teaches epictetus. There would be no markets, really, so without epictetus, and there would be no epictetus without Musone's Rufus. And I write about Musone's Lies of the Stoics. If you're not familiar with him at all, I was fascinated writing about him. He gets exiled four times. He undergoes all sorts of adversity, but he's known in Rome as the Roman Socrates, one of the great Stoic thinkers and orggers of his time. And yet, very few people today have read him. So in today's episode, I'm going to bring you some

excerpts from Wusonius Rufus. And in this excerpt, he's talking about having a commitment to live for virtue and not pleasure, since virtue saves us from making the kind of mistakes that ruin a life. And he's going to be talking about the importance of austere personal habits, including a simple diet, minimal, and inexpensive clothing, to achieve a good sturdy life in a chord with the principles of stoicism. And I think you're really going to like it. We carry an addition of Musone's Rufus that I would recommend called that one should disdain hardships. And we carry it at the Painted Portugal. I'll link to that in today's show notes as well.

notes as well. That man is born with an inclination toward virtue. All of us, he used to say, are so fashioned by nature that we can live our lives free from error and nobly. Not that one can and another cannot, but all. The clearest evidence of this is the fact that law givers lay down for all alike, what may be done, and forbid what may not be done, exempting from punishment no one who disobeyed or does wrong. Not the young, nor the old, not the strong, nor the weak, not anyone whom so ever.

And yet, if the whole notion of virtue were something that came to us from without, and we share no part of it by birth, just as in activities pertaining to the other arts, no one who has not learned the art is expected to be free from error. So in like manner, in things pertaining to the conduct of life, it would not be reasonable to expect anyone to be free from error who had not learned virtue. Seeing that virtue is the only thing that saves us from error in daily living. Now in the care of the sick, we demand no one but the physician to be free from error, and in handling the liar, no one but the musician, and in managing the helm, no one but

the pilot. But in the conduct of life, it is no longer only the philosopher whom we expect to be free from error, though he alone would seem to be the only one concerned with the study of virtue, but all men alike, including those who have never given any attention to virtue. Clearly, then, there is no explanation for this other than that the human being is born with an inclination toward virtue. And this indeed is strong evidence of the presence of goodness in our nature that all speak of themselves as having virtue and being good. For take the common man, when asked whether he is stupid or intelligent, no one will confess

to being stupid, or again, when asked whether he is just or unjust, no one will say that he is unjust. In the same way, if one asks him whether he is temperate or intemperate, he replies at once that he is temperate, and finally, if one asks whether he is good or bad, he would say that he is good or bad, he would say that he is good, even though he can name no teacher of virtue or mention any study or practice of virtue he has ever made. Of what then is this evidence, if not of the existence of an innate inclination of the human soul toward goodness and nobleness, and of the presence of the seeds of virtue

in each one of us. Moreover, because it is entirely to our advantage to be good, some of us deceive ourselves into thinking that we are really good, while others of us are ashamed to admit that we are not. Why then pray when one who has not learned letters or music or gymnastics never claims to have knowledge of these arts nor makes any pretense of knowing them and is quite unable to even name a teacher to whom he went? Why, I say, does everyone profess that he has virtue? It is because none of those other skills is natural to man, and no human being is born with a natural faculty for them, whereas an inclination

toward virtue is inborn in each one of us. That women too should study philosophy. When someone asked him if women too should study philosophy, he began to discourse on the theme that they should in somewhat the following manner. Women as well as men, he said, have received from the gods the gift of reason, which we use in our dealings with one another, and by which we judge whether a thing is good or bad, right or wrong. Likewise, the female has the same senses as the male, namely sight, hearing, smell, and the others.

Also both have the same parts of the body, and one has nothing more than the other. Moreover, not men alone, but women too, have a natural inclination toward virtue and the capacity for acquiring it, and it is the nature of women no less than men to be pleased by good and just acts and to reject the opposite of these. If this is true, by what reasoning would it ever be appropriate for men to search out and consider how they may lead good lives, which is exactly the study of philosophy? But in appropriate for women, could it be that it is fitting for men to be good and not for women? Let us examine in detail the qualities which are suitable for a woman

who would lead a good life, for it will appear that each of them would occur to her, most readily, from the study of philosophy. In the first place, a woman must be a good housekeeper. That is a careful accountant of all that pertains to the welfare of her house and capable of directing the household slaves. It is my contention that these are the very qualities which would be present particularly in the woman who studies philosophy since obviously each of them is a part of life and philosophy is nothing other than knowledge about life, and the philosopher, as Socrates said, quoting Homer, is constantly engaged in investigating precisely this.

What so ever of good and of evil is wrought in thy halls. But above all, a woman must be chased and self-controlled. She must, I mean, be pure in respect of unlawful love, exercise restraint and other pleasures, not be a slave to desire, not be contentious, not lavish in expense, nor extravagant in dress. Such are the works of a virtuous woman, and to them I would add yet these, to control her temper, not to be overcome by grief, and to be superior to founders behind some of the world's biggest and most innovative companies, to learn how they built them from the ground up. Guy has

sat down with hundreds of founders behind well-known companies like Headspace, Manduke Yoga Mats, Soul Cycle, and Kodopaxi, as well as entrepreneurs working to solve some of the biggest problems of our time, like developing technology that pulls energy from the ground to heat in cool homes, or even figuring out how to make drinking water from air and sunlight. Together, they discussed their entire journey from day one, and all the skills they had to learn along the way, like confronting big challenges and how to lead through uncertainty. So if you want to get inspired

and learn how to think like an entrepreneur, check out how I built this, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon or Wondery app. Now these are the things which the teachings of philosophy transmit. And the person who has learned them and practices them would seem to me to have become a well-ordered and seemingly character,

whether man or woman. Well then, so much for self-control. As for justice, would not the woman who studies philosophy be just, would she not be a blameless life partner? Would she not be a sympathetic helpmate? Would she not be an untiring defender of husband and children? And would she not be entirely free of greed and arrogance? And who better than the woman trained in philosophy? And she certainly of necessity, if she has really acquired philosophy, and she certainly of necessity if she has really acquired philosophy would be disposed to look upon doing a wrong as worse than suffering one, as much worse

as it is the baser, and to regard being worsted as better than gaining an unjust advantage. Moreover, who better than she would love her children more than life itself? What woman would be more just than such a one? Now as for courage, certainly it is expected that the educated woman will be more courageous than the uneducated, and one who has studied philosophy than one who has not, and she will not therefore submit to anything shameful because of fear of death or unwillingness to face hardship, and she will not be intimidated by anyone because he is of noble birth, or powerful, or wealthy. No, not even if he be the

tyrant of her city. For in fact, she has schooled herself to be high-minded and to think of death not as an evil, and life not as a good, and likewise not to shun hardship and never for a moment seek ease and indolence. So it is that such a woman is likely to be energetic, strong to endure pain, prepared to nourish her children at her own breast, and to serve her husband with her own hands, and willing to do things which some would consider no better than slaves' work. Would not such a woman be a great help to the man who married her, an ornament to her relatives, and a good example for all who know her.

Yes, but I assure you, some will say, that women who associate with philosophers are bound to be arrogant for the most part and presumptuous. In that abandoning their own households and turning to the company of men they practice speeches, talk like sophists, and analyze syllogisms when they ought to be sitting at home spinning. I should not expect the women who study philosophy to shirk their appointed tasks for mere talk any more than men, but I maintain that their discussion should be conducted for the sake of their practical application. For as there is no merit in the science of medicine unless it

conduces to the healing of man's body, so if a philosopher has or teaches reason, it is of no use if it does not contribute to the virtue of man's soul. Above all, we ought to examine the doctrine which we think women who study philosophy ought to examine the doctrine which we think women who study philosophy ought to follow. We ought to see if the study which presents modesty as the greatest good can make them presumptuous. If the study which is a guide to the greatest self-restraint, accustomed them to live heedlessly, if what sets forth in temperance as the greatest evil does not teach self-control.

If what represents the management of a household as a virtue does not impel them to manage well their homes. Finally, the teachings of philosophy exhort the woman to be content with her lot and to work with her own hands. Which is more effective, theory, or practice. At another time, the problem arose among us, whether for the acquisition of virtue practice, or theory, is more effective, understanding that theory teaches what is right conduct, while practice represents the habit of those accustomed to act in accordance with such theory.

2 Masonius, practice seemed to be more effective, and speaking in support of his opinion, he asked one of those present the following question. Suppose that there are two physicians, one able to discourse very brilliantly about the art of medicine but having no experience in taking care of the sick, and the other quite incapable of speaking, but experienced in treating his patients, according to correct medical theory, which one he asked, would you choose to attend you if you were ill? He replied that he would choose the doctor who had experience in healing. Musonius then continued, well then, let us take another example of two men.

One has sailed a great deal and served as pilot on many boats. The other one has sailed very little and has never acted as pilot. If the one who had never piloted a ship should speak most ably on the methods of navigation, in the other very poorly and ineffectively, which one would you employ as pilot if you were going on a voyage? The man said he would take the experienced pilot. Again, Musonia said, take the case of two musicians. One knows the theory of music and discourse is on it most convincingly,

but is unable to sing or play the harp or the lyre. The other is inferior in theory, but is proficient in playing the harp and the lyre and in singing as well. To which one would you give a position as musician, or which one would you like to have as teacher for a child who does not know music? The man answered that he would choose the one who was skilled in practice. Well, then, said Musonius, that being the case, in the matter of temperance and self-control, is it not much better to be self-controlled and temperate in all one's actions than to be able to say what one ought to do?

Here too, the young man agreed that it is of less significance and importance to speak well about self-control than to practice self-control. monmosonius, drawing together what had been said, asked, how, now, in view of these conclusions, could knowledge of the theory of anything be better than becoming accustomed to act according to the principles of the theory? If we understand that application enables one to act, but theory makes one capable of speaking about it. Theory which teaches how one should act is related to application and comes first, since it is not possible to do anything really well unless its practical execution be in harmony with theory. Infectiveness, however, practice takes precedence

over theory as being more influential in leading men to action. as being more influential and leading men to action. Thanks so much for listening to the Daily Stoke Podcast. If you don't know this, you can get these delivered to you via email every day. Check it out at dailystoke.com slash email. Hey, Prime Members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic early and ad-free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad free with Wondery Plus in Apple podcasts.