The Daily Stoic - Musonius Rufus Stoic Fragments pt. 2

Episode Date: December 11, 2022

Which is more effective: theories or practice? Should kings study philosophy? These are the questions that Musonius Rufus examines in the second half of his lesser known Stoic fragments, read today as part two of our Musonius Rufus reading series. You can listen to part one here: https://wondery.com/shows/the-daily-stoic/episode/11074-musonius-rufus-stoic-fragments-pt-1/ Check out “That One Should Disdain Hardships” at the Painted Porch.✉️  Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic Podcast early and add free on Amazon Music. Download the app today. Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic Podcast. On Sundays, we take a deeper dive into these ancient topics with excerpts from the Stoic texts, from the Stoic texts, audio books that you like here, recommend here at Daily Stoic, and other long form wisdom that you can chew on on this relaxing weekend. We hope this helps shape your understanding of this philosophy and most importantly that you're able to apply it to actual life. Thank you for listening. of life. Thank you for listening. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wundery's podcast business wars. And in our new season, Walmart must fight off target, the new discounter that's both savvy and fashion forward. Listen to business wars on Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another weekend episode of the daily stoic podcast. Today, we are doing a deeper dive into a stoic that I think more people need to know about. As I've said before, we might not have Marcus really is with them. We certainly would not have epictetus without them. And was incredibly well-known in his time. Musoneus Rufus was known as the Roman Socrates. He was so wise. And it wasn't just wise, but he was such a prominent, powerful figure that he's exiled by the emperor

four different times, just an absolutely fascinating figure who taught slaves and kings alike. And some of his essays were collected by a few of his students. And today's episode features two of these lectures slash fragments. One is about what's more effective theory or practice. And the other, which is one of my personal favorites, is about the question of whether kings should study philosophy, which is one of my personal favorites, is about the question of whether kings should study philosophy, which Musonius certainly believed. There's a wonderful translation of Musonius that I would recommend, called that one should disdain hardship. We carry

it at the painted porch. I'll link to that in today's show notes. But in this one, because the essays are in the public domain, you can grab them and we had an awesome voice over actor put them together for you in your listening pleasure, so I will bring you two meditations essays from the great Musoneus Rufus, the teacher of Epic Titus, the Roman Socrates. Enjoy it. That Kings also should study philosophy. When one of the kings from Syria once came to him, for at that time there were still kings in Syria, vassals of Romans, amongst many other things he had to say to the man with a following words in particular.

Do not imagine, he said, that it is more appropriate for anyone to study philosophy than for you, nor for any other reason than because you are a king. For the first duty of a king is to be able to protect and benefit his people, and a protector and benefactor must know what is good for a man and what is bad, what is helpful and what is harmful, what is advantageous, and what is bad, what is helpful and what is harmful, what is advantageous, and what is disadvantageous. Inasmuch as it is plain that those who ally themselves with evil come to harm, while those who cleave to good and joy protection, and those who are deemed worthy of help and

advantage, enjoy benefits, while those who involve themselves in things disadvantageous and harmful suffer punishment. But to distinguish between good and bad, advantageous and disadvantageous, helpful and harmful is the part of none other than the philosopher who constantly occupies himself with this very question, how not to be ignorant of any of these things, and has made it his art to understand what conduces to a man's happiness or unhappiness. Therefore, it appears that the king should study philosophy.

Furthermore, it is fitting for a king, or rather, it is an absolute necessity for him, to arbitrate justice as between subjects so that no one may have more or less than his just desserts, but may receive honor or punishment as he deserves. But how would anyone who was not just ever be able to manage this? And how would anyone ever be just if he did not understand the nature of justice? Here again is a reason the King should study philosophy. For without such study, it would not be plain that he knew justice and the just. For one cannot deny either that the one who has learned it will understand justice better than the one who has not learned it, or that all who have not studied philosophy are ignorant of its nature. The truth of this statement appears from the fact that men disagree and contend with one another about justice, some saying that it is here, others that it is there. Yet, about things of which men have knowledge, there is no difference of opinion, as for example

about white and black or hot and cold or soft and hard, but all think the same about them and use the same words. In just the same way, they would agree about justice if they knew what it was, but in their very lack of agreement, they reveal their ignorance. Indeed, I am inclined to think that you are not far from such ignorance yourself, and you want therefore more than anyone else to concern yourself with this knowledge. The more disgraceful it is for a king than for a private citizen to be ignorant about justice. In the next place, it is essential for the king to exercise

self-control over himself and demand self-control of his subjects. To the end that with sober rule and seemingly submission, there shall be no wantoness on the part of either. For the ruin of the ruler and the citizen alike is wantoness. But how would anyone achieve self-control if he did not make an effort to curb his desires? Or how could one who was undisciplined make others temperate. One can mention no study except philosophy that develops self-control. Certainly, it teaches one to be above pleasure and greed to admire thrift and to avoid extravagance. It trains one to have a sense of shame and to control one's tongue.

It produces discipline, order, and courtesy, and in general, what is fitting in action and in bearing. In an ordinary man, when these qualities are present, they give him dignity and self-command, but if they be present in a king, they make him pre-eminently godlike and worthy of reverence. Celebrity feuds are high stakes. You never know if you're just going to end up on Page Six or Du Moir or in court. I'm Matt Bellesai. And I'm Sydney Battle, and we're the host of Wundery's new podcast, Disantel, where each episode we unpack a different iconic celebrity feud. From the buildup, why it happened, and the repercussions.

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You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music or the Wondering app. Now, since fearlessness and intrepidity and boldness are the product of courage, how else would a man acquire them than by having a firm conviction that death and hardships are not evils? For these are the things, death and hardships are not evils. For these are the things, death and hardships, I repeat, which unbalance and frighten men

when they believe that they are evils, that they are not evils, philosophy is the only teacher. Consequently, if kings ought to possess courage and they more than anyone else should possess it, they must set themselves to the study of philosophy, since they cannot become courageous by any other means. It is also the prerogative of kings, if they enjoy any whatsoever, to be invincible in reason,

and to be able to prevail over disputants by their arguments, just as over their enemies by their arms. Thus, when kings are weak in this, it stands to reason that often they are misled and forced to accept the false as the true, which is the price of folly and dense ignorance. Now philosophy by its nature confers upon its devotees, perhaps more than anything else, the ability to remain superior to others in debate, to distinguish the false from the true, and to refute the one and to confirm the other. Professional speakers at any rate, whenever they enter into the give and take of argument with philosophers, one can seem confused and confounded in a blight to contradict themselves. And yet, if such speakers, whose business it is to practice debate, are caught because they are inferior to the philosopher's argument, what is bound to happen to other men? Therefore, it is the ambition of anyone who is a king to be powerful in debate.

He should study philosophy in order that he may not have to fear that anyone will prevail over him in this, for a king should be completely fearless and courageous and invincible. In general, it is of the greatest importance for the good king to be faultless in perfect and word and action. If indeed he is to be a living law as he seemed to the ancients, affecting good government and harmony, suppressing lawlessness and dissension, a true imitator of Zeus and, like him, father of his people. But how could anyone be such a king if he were not endowed with a superior nature, given the best possible education, and possessed of all the virtues which be fit a man?

If then, there is any other knowledge which guides man's nature to virtue and teaches him to practice and associate with the good, it should be placed beside philosophy and compared with it to see whether it or philosophy is better and more capable of producing a good king. Then the man who wished to become a good king would be wise to use the better one. If, however, no other art professes the teaching and transmission of virtue, though there are some which are concerned solely with man's body and what is useful for it, while others which touch the mind aim at everything else but making itself controlled,

yet philosophy alone makes this its aim and occupies itself with this. How a man may avoid evil and acquire virtue. If this I say is so, what else would be more serviceable to a king who wished to be good than the study of philosophy? How better or how otherwise could a man be a good ruler or live a good life than by studying philosophy? For my part, I believe that the good king is straight way and of necessity of philosopher and the philosopher, a kingly person.

Of these two propositions, let us examine the former. Is it possible for anyone to be a good king unless he is a good man? No, it is not possible. But given a good man, would he not be entitled to be called a philosopher? Most certainly, since philosophy is the pursuit of ideal good. Therefore, a good king is found to be forthwith and of necessity of philosopher also. Now again that the philosopher is entirely kingly, you may understand from this. The attribute of a kingly person is obviously the ability to rule peoples and cities well and to be worthy to govern men. Well then, who would be a more capable head of a city or more worthy to govern men than the philosopher? For it behooves him, if he is truly a philosopher, to be intelligent, disciplined, noble-minded, a good judge of what is just and

of what is seemingly efficient in putting his plans into effect, patient under hardship. In addition to this, he should be courageous, fearless, resolute in the face of things apparently disastrous, and besides beneficient, helpful and humane. Could anyone be found more fit or better able to govern than such a man? No one, even if he does not have many subjects obedient to him, he is not for that reason less kingly. For it is enough to rule one's friends or one's wife and children or for that matter, only oneself. For, indeed, a physician who attends few patients is no less a physician than the one

who attends many, if, to be sure, he has skill and experience in healing. In the same way, the musician who teaches only a few pupils is no less a musician than the one who teaches many, provided he knows the art of music. Likewise, the horseman who trains only one or two horses is just as much a horseman as the one who trains many, if he is skilled in horsemanship. And so, the title of King Lee Person belongs to the one who has only one or two subjects, just as well as to the one who has many, only let him have the skill and ability to rule, so that he may deserve the name of King. For this reason, it seems to me that Socrates II called philosophy the statesmen like

in royal discipline, because one who masters it immediately becomes a statesman. When Musonius said these things, the king was glad at his words and told him that he was grateful for what he said and added, in return for this, ask of me whatever you wish for I shall refuse nothing." Then Musonius said, the only favor I ask of you is to remain faithful to this teaching since you find it commendable for in this way and no other, will you best please me and benefit yourself. Thanks for listening to the Daily Stoke Podcast. Just a reminder, we've got signed copies of all my books in the Daily Stoke Store. You can get them personalized.

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