The Daily Stoic - Stephen A. Smith On Debating, Working, And Living With Authenticity

Episode Date: May 31, 2023

Ryan speaks with Stephen A. Smith about his new memoir Straight Shooter: A Memoir of Second Chances and First Takes, why it is so important to be okay with admitting when you are wrong, why his greatest attribute is his authenticity, the value of knowing when to have an opinion and when to stay silent, and more.Stephen A. Smith is a sports commentator, journalist, host, personality, and podcast host. His career spans nearly thirty years and includes stints in print media writing for The Philadelphia Inquirer, radio as a host on Fox Sports Radio and Sirius XM Radio, and television as one of the hosts on ESPN’s First Take. He has also frequently appeared on Sportscenter, Pardon The Interruption, and Jim Rome is Burning. In addition to his work at ESPN, he now hosts the Stephen A. Smith Show. You can find Stephen’s work on his YouTube channel, and on Twitter and Instagram @stephenasmith.✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoic Podcast early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast where each weekday we bring you a Meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics a short passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well-known and obscure, fascinating and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are, and also to find peace and wisdom in their actual lives. But first, we've got a quick message from one of our sponsors. Hey, it's Ryan Holloway.

Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic podcast. You probably noticed in my books, in my writing, maybe if you follow me on Instagram, that I am a sports addict. I grew up in Sacramento, so I'm a Kings fan. I have gotten to visit with and talked to a bunch of different sports teams. Certainly, I was not thinking when I wrote this book about ancient philosophy that I would get to connect with these different teams, but that has been a very cool experience. And one of the things you've noticed in these locker rooms in these front offices is they're just running the same sports shows that the rest of us are watching. You might think, you know, you watch these talk shows on the SPN, like, who are these

people talking to? They're not just talking to fans. Like, they are talking to the people in the industry, which is crazy. Even if people in the industry say they don't know what they're talking about, they can't stop watching them, like, the rest of us. And I guess I've been watching my guest today, Steve and A. Smith, for longer than I can really remember, he is one of the biggest names in sports commentary. Certainly one of the biggest to not have come to it from the field. And he has a new book that came out in January

called Straight Shooter, a memoir of second chances and first takes. And it's about the highs and lows of his careers, his thoughts on all the controversies and arguments he's gotten in, his thoughts on the biggest stories in sports and his quite nearly fatal bout of COVID. And you know, it's in the same styles, all the Stephen A Smith stuff that you've seen.

But when I had the chance to have them on the podcast, he wasn't someone I was thinking would be your typical daily stoke guess. And that's why I guess I was looking forward to having them on. We had a great conversation. Stephen played basketball at Winston-Salem State University. He wrote for the New York Daily News in the Philadelphia Inquirer. He's been on ESPN's first take since 2012. He's an analyst on NBA countdown as the host of NBA and Stephen A's world. And he has a new podcast called No Mercy with Stephen A Smith. I thought this was a great conversation. I was a little nervous to go toe to toe with one of the

mic dominators of our time, but we ended up having a great conversation and I thought the book was really interesting and I had fun reading it. Check out Straight Shooter, a memoir of second chances and first take. But first, my conversation with the one and only Stephen A. Smith. He's at Stephen A. Smith on pretty much every platform and you can find his podcast, No Mercy on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and everywhere else.

Life can get you down. I'm no stranger to that. When I find things are piling up, I'm struggling to deal with something. Obviously, I use my journal. Obviously, I turn to stochism, but I also turn to my therapist, which I've had for a long time and has helped me through a bunch of stuff. And because I'm so busy and I live out in the country, I do therapy remote, so I don't have to drive somewhere. And that's where today's sponsor comes in. Toxbase makes it easy to find a therapist that you like. It's convenient. It's affordable. By doing everything online, Toxbase makes getting the help you want easy and affordable. So why wait? And Toxbase can help with any specific challenge you might be facing. That's why it's the number one online therapy platform with license therapists and

over 40 specialties. It's secure and private and in network with most major insurers. As a listener of this podcast, you can get 80 bucks off your first month with Talkspace when you go to Talkspace.com slash stoic. To match with a license therapist today, go to Talkspace.com slash stoic to get 80 bucks off your first month and show your support for the day with stoic. That's Talkspace.com slash stoic. It's funny. I talk to lots of people and a good chunk of those people

haven't been readers for a long time. They've just gotten back into it. And I always love hearing that and they tell me how they fall in love with reading, they're reading more than ever. And I go, let me guess, you listen audiobooks, don't you? And it's true, and almost invariably, they listen to them on Audible.

And that's because Audible offers an incredible selection of audiobooks across every genre from best sellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, and of course, ancient philosophy, all my books are available on audio, read by me for the most part. Audible lets you enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app. You'll always find the best of what you love, or something new to discover, and as an Audible member, you get to choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog, including the latest best sellers and new releases. You'll discover thousands of titles from popular favorites, exclusive new series, exciting

new voices in audio. You can check out Stillness is the key, the daily dad I just recorded. So that's up on Audible now. Coming up on the 10 year anniversary of the obstacle is the way audio books. So all those are available. And new members can try Audible for free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash daily stoke or text daily stoke to 500 500. That's audible.com slash daily stoke or text daily stoke to 500 500. How good is it to be in a world where the Sacramento

kings are good again, man? It's a great feeling because I think that when you look at DeAran Fox, who's really emerged as a superstar, you look at Malik Monk the way that he's been ballin'. The coaching job, my vote for coach, yeah, obviously was everybody's coach of the year, Mike Brown, he's done an exceptional job. You never saw that coming.

And for them to be irrelevant for so long, and then a bust on the scene, the only thing you find yourself feeling is damn. What if they get beaten by Golden State? It's a crying shame. As much as we would all prefer that Steph Curry continue to play because he's just the ultimate superstar and this style of playing golden state is fascinating to watch. It's a damn shame that if they won that means Sacramento has to go home early because you'd like to see them playing for a long time as well. Number one offense in the NBA, they're very entertaining to watch.

I remember as a kid, we would go to Sacramento Kings games and they were so bad that we would hope they would get 100 points because there was like free tacos the next day. It was like a problem. And now to go from free tacos to light the beam, it's just, it's the best. It's special, man. I think it is. I think it's special. And I don't think you can get around it.

It's great for basketball, it's entertaining for basketball, and to see an emerging star like DeAran Fox blossom before I vary eyes, I think that goes a long way. It's the only argument that I've ever gotten into whatever imagine Johnson, my buddy, that I've known for many years. I begged him to drive DeAran Fox. I said, don't drive Lonzo. DeAran Fox is that dude, that's the guy you want.

And I kept insisting upon that. And it's the only thing that I've ever been right about against him, you know, because he is a basketball Savant, if ever there was one, the greatest point God in the history of basketball, unless you prefer somebody to like some Steph Curry, but Magic Johnson, the ultimate lead at a five time champion, phenomenal point guard.

That might be the only thing that I feel I've ever been right about arguing with him. I don't know if anyone could have predicted he would be so clutch, fourth quarter fox. I mean, you can tell someone's going to be good, but it's hard to predict someone's going to be clutch. And there's no question about it, but that's what makes stars. You know, Kenny Smith for TNT always says it. In a regular season, you make your name in the post season, you make your fame. And that's what Deanna Fox is doing before I very eyes right now. And I got to tell you that, you know, he deserves a lot of credit. There's no doubt about that. And I give him a lot of credit for it, because he is a star. He's ungodable. He's not just quit with his fast. He's both. Usually it's one of the other. He's both.

I've heard you say that you have the best job because either you win the argument or you learn something, which strikes me as a good life lesson. I've heard people say you either succeed or you fail. And when you fail, you succeed because you learn something. Absolutely. I mean I think that's the right attitude to have. You know when you go in there and it's all about being right that's kind of productive. Yeah. That's not going to get you very far. It does a disservice to your loved ones, those that you're close to, the people that you work with, the organizations you represent, et cetera, where there's this commitment and this fixation

towards being right as opposed to, you know, putting yourself in a position where you give folks an opportunity to learn and to be enlightened. And for me personally, most of the time, I believe I'm absolutely right. When I'm debating somebody, and I mean, that is definitely the case. I'm not trying to run away from that by any stretch of the time, I believe I'm absolutely right. When I'm debating somebody, that is definitely the case. I'm not trying to run away from that

by any stretch of the imagination. But if I'm wrong or if somebody has a cogent point that illuminates in my mind and makes me stop and pause and say, hey, that's a damn good point. I get where they're coming from. I pride myself from being that kind of person. Is it hard when you're good at arguing? To, I imagine being good at arguing is kind of a disadvantage in that people have to

not just be right, but they have to be better than you at arguing to get you to see the error of your ways or to see their point. I disagree with that because I'm not attempting to be right. That's the key. I believe I'm right, but I'm not attempting to be. I'm not striving to be right. I have a conversation with you. This is my point of view.

I believe it's right. It doesn't mean that I shut off my ears and refuse to listen. I think that I'm right, but as you make your points, it's not like you have to be a better arguer or a better debater. You simply have to make a point because I'm the kind of person. I'm not going to be married to making sure I come across right. I'm man enough to step back and say, come across right. I'm man enough to step back and say, that's a damn good point. And anything about that, you're kind of right about that. And I give it to you, you got me there.

You know, I don't have a problem of being that way. A matter of fact, when I look at politicians and today's day and age, I think that's one of our biggest problems in the nation. Everybody is trying to be right. They're not opening themselves to the possibility that they could be corrected, that they may have been ill-informed

or there just may be a better way, a better strategy, a better agenda than the one that they've had. And because they're so fixated and married to that kind of thinking, it eradicates the possibility of compromise. And when that happens, all you have is tension and friction and very little action getting done because both sides are committed to being right. And I'm making sure there's a constituency out there that sees their point of view rather than even entertaining the possibility that there may be

a better point of view than the one that they're providing. And I think that that's an incredible problem. And the reason why it's such a big problem is because when you have elected officials who have dominion over our lives in terms of the taxes that we pay, you know, healthcare, you know, education reform, immigration, the list goes on and on and on. When you have folks in a position as elected officials that have that level of dominion

and compromise as an a part of their equation while how on earth is compromise going to trickle down to the people they hover over. It's not going to happen. You're going to have to follow, you're going to find people taking sides and it's going to contribute to the divisiveness that exists. And I think it plays an integral role in the country being the way that it is right now. Yeah, we learned a bad lesson in the early 2000s.

Remember John Kerry was a flip flopper. We should want our politicians to change their mind if they thought they were wrong. You don't want a flip flopper who just says whatever everyone wants them to say, but you do want someone to reconsider their old positions if new evidence comes. Well, that's where the constituent see the populist, the citizens of this country come in the play. and we're just as much, if not almost as much to blame as they are. Because we don't want them to flip flop.

We don't want them to say, I was wrong. I need to correct the era of my ways because a lot of people look at it as weak. Or they look at it as you not being as thorough as you needed to be. So because of that, they lose faith in you. And as a result, they don't vote for you. And because they're not going to vote for you, you're going to lose your power, which you don't want to do. So you have to do everything you can, excuse my language, to cover your ass.

And that's what they do. And so because of that, that just trickles down. We need to do a better job of forgiving. But in the same breath, the level of cynicism that we harbor I can understand where it comes from. It comes from a place where especially If you're a politician and you've been elected into office and you've had this position and that was why somebody voted for you Then you changed that position after you've been after you've reached office Then that then then that then that

constituency is going to feel betrayed because they're going to feel like they were played. And that's where that comes into play. And so you've got to draw a fine line. And you've got to make sure that you're doing things that would eliminate the feeling that someone who's voted for that a voter would have towards you about being, about feeling hoodwinked. You have to make sure they don't feel that way. You have to be genuine in your communication and making sure you express and disseminate the message, look, I made a mistake. I didn't, I didn't feel this way back then. I thought I was right. Am I to be wrong? Okay.

And because I might have been wrong, I have to correct the error of my ways. There's a great exchange in one of Cicero's dialogues, someone points out, hey, you thought this a while ago and now you think this. And he says, don't quote me against myself. He said, I'm a free agent. I changed my mind based on what I see. And I think this idea of being a free agent as far as ideologies goes is really important too. People want to keep the same opinions as their tribe, but sometimes your tribe is wrong. And just because you identify as Republican or Democrat or whatever it is, it doesn't mean you

got to buy into every position that that comes as. I totally agree with you, but the question is, will they ever adopt that kind of thinking? See, for me, I don't blame them if they looked at somebody like me meaning the politicians and they say, well, that's easy for you to say. Yeah. Because I'm not looking for votes. Right.

So I understand where they would come from if they were to say such a thing. What I would, what my retort would be, I got guts. I'm not scared of somebody disagreeing with me. I'm not scared of somebody getting on me because I had to acknowledge I was wrong. If I was wrong, I was wrong.

And if that comes with some cynicism, if that comes with, you know, some come up in so be it. It's okay. I'll live another day. It's all right. Well, it's funny, people go, we don't want to piss off the base. But if, if you can't say what you think or do what you think needs to be done without losing your base, you don't have a base.

The base has you, right? I think about this as a, as a creator. Like, if you're afraid to, if you're constantly afraid, you're gonna lose the audience, you don't have an audience. You just have some people who know who you are. No question. That's the point. And, but here's the problem.

The problem isn't what you just broke down, Ryan. You know what the real problem is? Hit me. They've accepted it. Yeah. The real problem is that the politicians accepted, you don't have a base, they have you. And their mentality is, yeah, they have me publicly, but privately, they don't know what I'm doing.

Privately, they don't know what my relationships are with these lobbyists. Privately, they don't know who I've networked with, the kind of connections that I have, the kind of power that I'm able to wield because I have this connection with an audience that thinks they have me, but I really have them. This is what they do behind the scenes. And so because that's the mentality that they likely have, I don't know what definitively, of course, but that's because one could deduce that that's the mentality they likely have, where does that leave us? could deduce that that's the mentality they likely have. What does that leave us? Yeah, you know, you know, what I was thinking about people who are afraid to be wrong is,

you know, those stats about how like coaches should go for it on fourth down more often than they do or take certain shots more often than they do. Like, the reason they don't, the speculation is, is that they don't want to be criticized, right? And I think, I just think it's funny to think of some NFL coach who's getting paid millions of dollars a year, who's trained their whole life for this moment, who has overwhelming statistics telling them one way or another. But part of them is like, I don't want to get roasted by Steven A Smith tomorrow. And that is affecting the political field.

I don't believe that's the case. I think you're wrong there. I think they're skittin' losing their jobs. I don't think they're skittin' the criticism. Skittin' getting fired. Sure. There's a difference because ultimately, you lose your power position.

If they could hold on to their power position and they know that they're secure in that, they're not worried about criticism. Not a professional sports because you understand it comes with it. As a sports fan, you're never, you, you, you never believe that you don't know. Yeah, you might not know who's getting traded where you might not know that inside information, but I'm talking strictly as it pertains to what you see. You can't tell a sports fan anything, they think I already know.

All they wanna know from you is whether you agree or disagree with their position and why. Right. So they could have an argument. That's it. They don't think that you know more than they do. And so as a result of that,

you understand that if you're an athlete, you're a coach, you're an athlete, you're a coach, you're an executive, you're an owner, criticism and skepticism comes with the territory. And you accept that with ease. So long as you know, you're going to be able to still keep your job. But I do think there's a part of every person that wants to be, that wants to see that would prefer to avoid criticism than seek out praise, right? Nobody wants to get roasted. So we do less than, we are risk averse because we are afraid of getting roasted. Even if not publicly on TV, then

at the staff meeting tomorrow. But you're using the word risk. And what I would say to you is that it's not so much the prospect of being criticized. It's about being wrong and everyone knows it. If you're criticized, but you know you're right and you know it can't be proven that you're wrong and it's just people criticizing you because they didn't like the decision that you made. You sleep well at night, you'll get over it in most instances. It's the specter of someone being right about what they deemed the label as your incompetence.

Yeah. Okay. How ill informed you may be. And based off of that, you're looking at it and you're saying now they've got a question and quit. Now they got a reason to question my credibility. If I'm watching the next game and I say to you, Julius Randall is averaging 29 points a game and he's playing lights out and stuff like that. And the nicks ago, when this series, it's not that the nicks win a lose. It's that damn it, what Jewish Randall's been awful into at these three games.

What do you mean he's averaging 29 points per game? That is false. He's not even 29% from the field or from three point range rather. He's really, really struggling. So now that you misquoted that stat and you seem to not know what's going on in this series because anybody who's watching this series wouldn't say that your credibility has now come

into question because you don't know. Not because you said the nicks are going to lose or the nicks are going to win and something else happens. It's because the details that you use to highlight your position. Well, off. That's what people want to avoid. They don't care if they're wrong. All right, I picked the nicks to win and they lose as a Nick fan. I'll care because I'm a Nick fan. But as a pundit, so what I was wrong, I've been wrong before, I'm a few on the get. But you can't be wrong about the facts that you portrayed to be spewing. Sure. And those facts prove you are informed.

Does it ever surprise you how much people in sports watch shows like yours? Like I'm always surprised whenever I go into a sports team and they've got ESPN or Fox running in the background watching the opinion shows. Is that surprised you? Not at all. Why not? I think people who are surprised aren't paying attention to what's going on. Okay. In the society that we're living in, Everyone has the news within five minutes. The minute a story breaks, it's worldwide within five minutes. Sure.

It's the perspective people are waiting for. That's why they watch. Tell me what it means. You look, you look at your podcast right now. It's the daily stoic. Ryan provides a perspective. You're not breaking any news. When people are listening to you because they're listening to the perspective you provide, along with the perspectives that you peel from others. And that perspective gives people a food for thought.

They're able to say, well, Steven A said this, and Ryan said this, well, this is how I feel about it. Here's why, while taking into account what you said to decipher whether they agree or disagree with your point of view, that's everyone. Sure.

We've just happened to make a business out of it. Yeah. It's not just sports, politics. Well, you know what's going on in your crate. You know what's going on with the immigrant, with illegal immigration in this country. You know what's going on with the borders. You know what people are saying to about the Biden administration. You know what's going on with crimes in the streets.

You saw Eric Adams, the mayor of New York saying X, Y, Z about the immigration crisis in New York City, how he needs, you know, billions. And he's only gotten about four to eight million, you know. You see all of this stuff, you know the news. What you're looking for is the perspective. Is he right about this? Are they right about that? What's their position here?

Does this make any sense? Why would they say something like that? Where did that come from? Even with the war in Ukraine. All right. There's a war going on in Ukraine. Are they gonna win it? Are they gonna lose it all in that stuff?

That's one angle. What's the biggest angle? Russes unjustification for doing so. Well, why were they unjust? What exactly did they do? Do they believe that territory belongs to them? Is this the path they should have taken? Should they not have negotiated some kind, something so they could have gotten a piece of the land? They got crime me if I cry out like, got all of this stuff going on. People are looking for perspectives because they learn more when they listen to those things. Celebrity feuds are high stakes.

You never know if you're just going to end up on page 6 or Du Moir or in court. I'm Matt Bellasai. And I'm Sydney Battle, and we're the host of Wonder E's new podcast, Dis and Tell, where each episode we unpack a different iconic celebrity feud. From the build-up, why it happened, and the repercussions. What does our obsession with these feud say about us? The first season is packed with some pretty messy pop culture drama, but none is drawn out in personal as Brittany and Jamie Lynn Spears.

When Brittany's fans form the free Britney movement dedicated to fring her from the infamous conservatorship, Jamie Lin's lack of public support, it angered some fans, a lot of them. It's a story of two young women who had their choices taken away from them by their controlling parents, but took their anger out on each other. And it's about a movement to save a superstar, which set its sights upon anyone who failed to fight for Brittany. Follow Dissentel wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music or The Wondry App. Raising kids can be one of the greatest rewards of a parent's life.

But come on, someday, parenting is unbearable. I love my kid, but is a new parenting podcast from Wondry that shares a refreshingly honest and insightful take on parenting. Hosted by myself, Megan Galey, Chris Garcia, and Kurt Brownaller, we will be your resident not so expert experts. Each week we'll share a parenting story that will have you laughing, nodding, and thinking, oh yeah, I have absolutely been there. We'll talk about what went right and wrong, what would we do differently?

And the next time you step on yet another stray Lego in the middle of the night, you'll feel less alone. So if you like to laugh with us as we talk about the hardest job in the world, listen to, I love my kid, but wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. It's funny, I remember I was in a hotel eating breakfast one morning and first take was on and CNN was on one TV, MSMBC Fox News and all the sound was turned off of all of them. And it was actually really helpful to me when it struck me that all four screens

were doing the exact same thing. What you're doing is entertainment right because that's what sports ultimately are. You talk about important cultural issues too. But it was actually really helpful because it changed my media diet when I realized that the panels on these on these other shows, whether it was the right wing or left wing panel, that they were doing the same sort of speculation and guessing and perspective creation. Right. And that watching Fox News, let's say, or MSNBC, is not informing ourselves the way that we think it is. Well, that may be true, but it may be false. Okay.

If you are, if you are someone, like, for example, you have a lot of people that want to talk about what's going on in sports. Sure. It will go on a certain locker rooms. They don't have players' numbers on speed dial. Right. I do. They don't have coaches' numbers on speed dial.

I do. They don't have's numbers on speed dial. I do. They don't have executive numbers on speed dial. I do. They don't have owners. And commissioners numbers on speed dial. I do. So the perspective that they might try to provide is a lot different than my own.

Because you never know where my information is coming from. But if you're not connected to the sports that you talk about, I know where your information is coming from. That would be nowhere. But just reading articles and watching TV. Well, the same as applicable to politics and news when you have folks that are in the trenches, they come from an informed perspective. That informed perspective or be a perspective is still educational because they're giving you a backdrop and they're giving you nuggets of history

that you may not have otherwise known because they were there. When you have a war correspondent that's on the street to Ukraine, that's a little bit different than some do that's sitting in a New York studio talking about what's going on in Ukraine. You see what I'm saying? And so it's not, you can't always shun and shove aside perspectives. Some perspectives are very informed and informative. We just believe otherwise from time to time

because we can't always tell you the source of our information because if we tell you the source of our information, they get burned and they get burned and then you won't have any sources of information. That's what you're guarding against. That's what you've got to be mindful of. But don't think for one second that because people are providing perspectives, it doesn't mean they're educational. They're very educational. Well, I think what I'm saying is that when you're

sitting there, you're debating, you know, is LeBron James, the go-to-not, you know, is so-and-so, doing great. Should this team trade, this team, your agenda is fundamentally different than when we're watching the news where two sides are trying to battle out for the dominion that we were talking about earlier, right? Like there's something pure about what you're doing compared to what's happening on TV where they are trying to spin and change and create narratives that actually do impact and direct future reality in a way that sports ultimately as a spectator experience is a little different, if that makes sense.

Well, listen, I will tell you this. It's not the greatest thing in the world, but it's understandable. Yes. Because you're talking about, forget the politicians for a second. Let's take into account contributors and pundits from both sides of the aisle.

Surrogates. Surrogates. Their mission is to protect, to protect the agenda and the eye. Surrogates. Surrogates. Their mission is to protect, to protect the agenda and the narrative. Yeah. That has been put out there. Yeah. So if you listen to the right, you might listen to Sean Hannity. Yeah. Then you turn around and you listen to Clay Travis. And you turn around and you listen to Mark Levin. And you turn around and you watch, uh, pundits for CNN, MSNBC Fox news. And they're echoing and articulating the same relative thoughts because it's widely recognized that the right has this agenda, right? The RNC, the Republican National Committee and a influence that they

wield. This is our directive. This is what our target message is. This is what we believe will influence folks to make sure they veer towards our side blah, blah, blah. And then the left comes on and it's the woke culture. And yes, we don't want folks talking about Biden's son Hunter. We don't want folks talking about the immigration crisis at the borders. We don't want folks talking about Biden's son Hunter. We don't want folks talking about the immigration crisis at the borders. We don't want folks talking about the lack of labor participation and the market and stuff like that. That's not a winning formula for us.

But what is is the transgender issue, the woke culture, et cetera, et cetera. So we want you to focus on that. And then you see people coming back and they start talking about whatever it is that they're talking about on the left. I'm saying both sides are doing the same thing. Yeah.

It's just that each is trying to send their own message. Right. And so because that is the way that it is, and we're talking about votes at stake, you know, potentially for elected officials, they're a gender and their eyes are of a higher calling. And the genuine or authentic delivery and dissemination of information is compromised.

Because too much is at stake. And they're saying, this is what we got to do to make sure our side wins. That's why I don't fall for lack of a better phrase, the Oki-Dok from either side. They both have their agendas. I know what they're doing. And it's not, I joked around one time when I was on a podcast

and I was on TV because I've known somebody like Sean Hannity for years. And I joked around one time when I was on a podcast and I was on TV because I've known somebody like Sean Hannity for years. And I joked and I literally said this, I said, listen, somebody could get home in the middle of the streets of New York in broad daylight. Okay. And the crime was committed by a Republican. First words out of Sean Hand, these mouth was gonna be, they did it first. Meaning the Republicans. Of course.

They did it first. He's gonna try to show you the equality of it all or the discrepancy that's being exercised. When Trump, I'm watching some show on TV last night for the first time, it was called accidental president if I remember correctly. And with some kind of docu- docuseries on Trump winning the presidency. And, you know, it was talking about when, you know, access Hollywood, when he got caught on tape, his voice saying, you know, you can do anything, you're rich, your family, you

can even grab a woman by you, by the, you know what? And he instantly said, those were just words, but the actions of Bill Clinton For you serve that and Hillary were going after this those women, but all of a sudden, you know what now I'm Neville and then when he showed up to the debates He showed up to the women who had accused Bill Clinton of these actions. You said I'm saying yeah playing that game Yeah, because the whole thing was, look, as bad as I was, they're worse. He was screaming narrative, trying to spin the narrative in the other way.

But I'm just saying, it both sides do it. It's a working formula. And so for me, where the skepticism never dissipates is when you hear the other side lamenting what the opponents are doing acting like they never do it. When we see them do it every day. Of course. It's the game'smanship and you just have to accept the fact that that comes with it. No, and I think it's helpful to watch sports and watch it happen in a more innocent context where people are just, you know, arguing about this and this and then realize that that same thing is happening in a more serious context

and that the consequences of that are different. Yeah, I mean the consequences, the consequences are a little bit different in the world of sports, but still, you can find yourself in hot water if you're fabricating stories, if you're plagiarizing, if you're making stuff up or whatever the case may be, there are tenants that are applicable

no matter where you go. When you have a microphone particularly with a camera in front of it and you're disseminating things that you know to be untrue, that is definitely something that will come back to bite you. That's not wise and nobody should do it. So let me ask you a question. I'm always curious when someone is like

the best in the world at what they do. What they think their killer advantage is, what their sort of secret sauces. For you, I mean, so many people dream about being the guy that gets to have opinions about sports on TV and you're the top dog there. What do you, when you look at yourself, what do you feel like your greatest attribute

is? What makes you you? I'm my authentic self. As you talk to me, what you see is what you get. My life as I look at it, I have a job to do, I'm going to do it. It's that simple. I don't need a plowers. I don't need attention. I get a lot of it. I get a lot of the other side too. But at the end of the day, my man, I'm coming to work to perform and fill my obligations

to my respective employer. I finish the job, pay me, and I go home. It's that simple. You don't have to do anything else for me. I don't have to do anything else for me. I don't care. I'm not looking for anything else. I have family and friends and loved ones. You know, I have an interest, I'm not some recluse that has no life outside of my job.

I'm not devoid of love and affection in my life. You know, I got four de sisters, I got 15 nieces and nephews, I got twooid of love and affection in my life. You know, I got four older sisters, I got 15 nieces and nephews, I got two beautiful daughters, I've got phenomenal friends, both on a male and female side who love me to death and never hesitate to show me that. Yeah, I'm good.

And so because of that, my claim to fame, what works for me is that I don't get caught up. I'm not, I'm not just dude that walks around, well, I'm Steven A. So that makes me better than you. Yeah. You know, I don't live like that. I don't think like that. You know, excuse my language.

I shouldn't bleed just like anybody else. You know, I don't think that there are things about me that's more special than the next human being. What I get mad about is when people treat me as if I'm elevated, as if I'm special. And then get mad at me. you know, when I don't respond the way they want me to respond. Yeah. That pisses me off because I'm being normal. I'm myself. Yeah. And they call me a star and, you know, to face the ESPN and all of this other stuff.

I'll tell you something that I've heard many stars say and I totally, totally agree with them. When you become a star, it's not that you changed, the people around you have changed. Sure. The expectations have changed. There are your obligation. What they feel should be your obligation to them has changed. They treat you differently. They come to you with their hand down, figuratively and literally. It's not always about money. It's about favors. You know, it could be the littlest thing to the biggest thing. It doesn't matter. They're always coming to you because you have what they want, but that one is no longer one. It's a need in their eyes. Suddenly, every damn thing is an emergency.

Every damn thing is of utmost importance. Every damn thing, they, they, they got to have. Because if you don't give it to them, you've just squashed their life. But they were doing just following out these things before they knew you had it. You see, these are the kind of things that happen. And you just have to have the kind of balancing your life to say, fuck off. That's not true. You know it. I've done this for you. I've done this for you.

I've done that for you. I can't do every damn thing. You do get to that point. You got to be self-contained. Yeah. You've got it. You self-contained from the standpoint of just understand your human being. Yeah. You know, if a bullet came your way, it'll hurt you just like it would hurt any other human being. Sure. Got to a car accident. it would hurt you just like it hurt anybody else. You know, you got cancer, it would hurt you just like

it hurt anybody else. You know, I mean, you break your knee or your leg or whatever, it would hurt you just like it hurts anybody else. You know, and when you come to that conclusion, there's a level of normalcy that hits you and it's easy to embrace. And that's what's surrounding yourself with those loved ones with that inner circle really, really

helps to insulate you from the BS because you're able to say, Hey, you know, I'm very normal. I understand normalcy. They might be looking at me like I'm abnormal, but I know I'm not, and I'm good with that. Yeah, you talked towards the end of the book, which I thought was really interesting. You talk about your, your bout with COVID. Was that, was that humanizing for you? Just to be like it knocked you on your ass.

It sounds like it almost killed me. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't breathe. And to be in a hospital on New Year's Eve, as I wrote in my book, Straight Shooter, to have a doctor tell you 90 minutes before the ball is dropping in Times Square, that we're gonna try these steroids and these antibiotics. If it doesn't work, we need to call your family.

Because you're in pretty bad shape. Yeah. To have them show you an X-ray, where you're looking at your lungs and a little spot in Your lungs could potentially show that you have pneumonia and my entire lungs was covered in white It looked like clouds in the sky. You saw nothing but white there on x-ray. Yeah, um, you know, I had double pneumonia To have to go through that to wonder for those three hours because they said that's how long it would take the medication to kick in.

That in three to four hours, you'll know whether or not you want to roll to recovery or not. This should do the trick. To wonder about that, to sit there for those three hours and wonder if I was going to see my family again and stuff like that. And while three hours are a short three hours, how do you feel in that moment? I would tell you this, it wasn't a long three hours

because I started feeling the effects sooner. Hmm. So what I'm measuring, I'm always good about this. I measure my moment of hardship, my moment of misery or whatever the case would be, and everything is compared to that. So even though I wasn't well, after I took the medication at 10.30 30 by midnight, I knew I was feeling better

than I felt at 10 30. I wasn't out of the woods. I still wasn't feeling great, but I knew I was better than I was 90 minutes earlier. And so because of that, it wasn't like, oh, three, four hours later, I felt better. No. it like, oh, three, four hours later, I felt better. No, incrementally, you felt yourself like gaining a little steam. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and based on how I had felt

the previous two and a half weeks, yeah, I knew that I was getting better. It's like in sports, what direction is the momentum going? That guy. I can determine the whole series. That's exactly the case. I thought it was really moving too. You said as you were laying there in the hospital, you know, potentially, you know, facing your own death, you thought, why haven't I spent more time with my kids? Yeah, because growing up poor, again,

as I mentioned in my book, Straight Shooter, to grow up poor, to struggle the way that I did, to struggle the way that my family did. You grow up with different priorities. Like I'm one of those guys that I thought I knew what love was because of my mom because I loved her so much. God rest her soul. She's the greatest woman I've ever known. And when she passed away in 2017, it's a misery I have not nor do I believe I will ever get over because I miss her so much. But without question, I never knew love like the love that I feel for my daughters.

love like the love that I feel for my daughters. I mean, it's just, it's paralyzing. Yeah. Seriously, because there isn't a moment in a day where I'm not thinking about both of them. What are they doing? Who are they with? Are they safe? Are they good? Are they healthy? They smiling. I'm thinking about the call I'm gonna get when they get out of school and they say, daddy, you know, which is the greatest title I've ever had. That's right. All of those things are true, but having said that,

because of my upbringing, Ryan, and because of how much we suffered, because of my dad's negligence. I'm one of those dudes and I've apologized to my daughters about this on many, many occasions. Daddy will always spend as much time with you as I possibly can. I love you to death. Talk every day, see every day, whatever, but the hours in a day, what I'm doing is working to secure your future. Yeah.

Because it's not an option for me, for them to suffer. You want to give them what you didn't get? I want to give them what they, I didn't get. And it's just not an option, man. I make sure they know how much I love them. I tell them every day, every day. And all of that stuff, all of it's true. But if I have to sacrifice time with them to ensure that I'm securing, providing a better future for them. I've made it very, very clear to them both. That is a sacrifice daddy is going to make. And one of the things that makes it a nugget easy, and I don't think I've ever said this

to anybody, but I'm just thinking about it right now. You know what makes it easy for me? I'm on television. They can see you gotta do is click on the channel. Yeah. And they know daddy's working. You see, that's a big deal. Yeah. To all the men out there that are listening to this,

I'm not encouraging anybody to work as much as I work and to make the much as I work and to make the sacrifices that I make, I understand, I have my own cloth, other people do their thing, I get all of that. But it's important to me. Like when I'm working, I tell them I'm working. Like I tell them what channel I'm on, exactly what I'm doing.

Here's where you can find me because when they're with their friends, or they're around loved ones or whatever, where's daddy? Daddy's on TV, daddy's right there, see? Even if they're complaining that I'm working, they know why, and they know exactly what to find me. And I think that kind of quells, you know, the cynicism that you might have because daddy

hasn't been around all day. Well, I think it's a good example. Let them see you work. Let them see someone who cares about what they do, who's good at what they do, who thinks that what they're doing has a positive impact. Let them see. But also know I'm doing it for them. Yeah.

See, I take more vacations if it was just me. You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't feel this insatiable need to get as much as I can while I can get it if it was just me. I would be confident, I'll be all right because all I gotta worry about is me and I know how to do it out. So I don't have to have everything.

But when you wanna make sure that education is right, when you wanna make sure to close on their back to roof over their head, you know, the cars they have access to, you know, everything else that comes with it, life. When you wanna make sure you're securing their future, you do worry about having enough to provide for them. And so that's the mentality that I take.

And I remember that I didn't know where my father was or what he was doing. Right. I just knew he wasn't around and he wasn't helping my mother pay the bills. Sure. Well, last question for you, I've always seen you as, and I mean, this is a compliment, as an opinion generating machine, right? Sports happen every day, things happen in the world every day, and you've got, you've got the first take on them, right? That's what you do. Do you find, and that's your professional skill, that's your job, but, but also, you know, as one

goes out through the world, one of the things the Stoics talk about is they go, hey, remember, you always have the power to have no opinion about stuff right because if you have opinions about how everything should be all the time that's also a recipe for misery right. Do you can you turn that off like can you when you're on TV you're the opinion generating machine are you like that in your private life is that a skill you can turn on and off? It's a skill I can turn on and off. There's a lot of times in my personal life. I have nothing to say. It's none of my business. Yeah. I know it's ironic in so many ways

that I have been a professional journalist for so many years who morphed into this personality. You understand? And I am an absolute professional at mind in my damn business. There are certain things that have nothing to do with me and I'm not even asking. I'm not even asking, you know.

I know many stars, I communicate with them. And what they loved about me is, I never asked. You remember years ago, JZ was dating Beyonce. I would go to the 40, 40 club in New York. I saw a JZ on many occasions. Sometimes I saw Beyonce. I'm not one time did I ever ask a single question. It is none of my business.

I never asked. I don't have any comments, you know? I mean, because I just feel that's the appropriate position to have. Now, having said that because of what I do by virtue of what I do for a living, when I show up on TV, I'm supposed to have an opinion. That's not just ESPN.

If I show up on Fox News or MSNBC or CNN, I'm supposed to have an opinion. They're asking me a question, I gotta give them an answer. You're not tuning, you're not turning the, or leaving the TV on the screen to hear me say nothing. You wanted to hear where I'm coming from. And what facts have I deduced to provide the perspective for me that I have.

You wanna know that, and I have an obligation to tell it to you. But there are many, many occasions where I'm approached in the streets, where I'm home, or wherever, where people are asking my opinion, and I don't provide it, because I'm not there for that. Yeah. When, and think of all the things that we have an opinion about, where our opinion doesn't make a difference,

the weather doesn't care what you think of the weather, the weather is the weather, you know, how you want things to be, or how you think they should be, it doesn't change what they are. Yeah, and that's the way it goes. And I mean, there are certain things that don't require an opinion, but there are certain things that are born out of frustration.

Yeah. Like, if I left LA, and it was 85 degrees, and the sun was shining, and I was driving in Beverly Hills, and it just looked like Beverly Hills. And it just looked like, you know, Beverly Hills. And it looked gorgeous. And then I hop on a plane and six hours later, I'm in New York and it's 40 degrees and it's raining and cold and windy.

I'm gonna say this weather sucks. Okay? I mean, it's not something to argue about or whatever. It's an opinion that I spewed because damn it to me, it's fact and I'm disgusted by it. So I expressed an emotion to exhale. So you're not a Buddhist monk. You haven't perfectly been able to turn off the opinion generating machine then.

No, I'm just, I don't think it's an opinion. To me, it's a fact. And it's just born of frustration. So it's not something to be debated. It's not like somebody's gonna look at me and say, no, it's sunny outside. If it's cold and raining and it's 40 degrees and it's windy, who's debating?

You're just making a comment. It's true. Well, it's a fine line though, between a comment and a complaint. Well, it could be a fine line, but it also depends on who you're talking to and what platform you're in when you say it Sure if I'm in a car service or my car and I'm driving home and I spew it to somebody that's in the car with me That's nothing if I take an opportunity to go on the weather channel just to complain about the weather. That's different I love it. Well, you told me you had to go so I'll get you out on time

man. This is appreciate this is a cool opportunity for me and I appreciate. Thank you so much. Take care. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it, and I'll see you next episode. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to the Daily Stoic Early and Add Free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and add free with Wondery Plus in Apple podcasts. and Apple podcasts.