The Daily Stoic - Tom Segura On Honing The Craft of Comedy

Episode Date: October 7, 2023

Ryan speaks with Tom Segura in the first of a two-part conversation about the links between writing comedy specials and writing philosophy books, the mindset it takes to succeed in a creative field, Tom’s weird and winding journey through professional comedy, and more.Tom Segura is a stand-up comedian, writer, author, actor, and podcaster. He co-hosts the Your Mom's House podcast with his wife and fellow comedian Christina Pazsitzky, as well as the podcast Two Bears One Cave with best friend and fellow comedian Bert Kreischer. He has made two stand-up comedy albums and five specials on video, including Disgraceful (2018) and Ball Hog (2020), and he has appeared on the comedy shows Comedy Central Presents, Live at Gotham, and This Is Not Happening. You can find Tom’s work at tomsegura.com and on Instagram @seguratom and Twitter @tomsegura, on his YouTube channel.✉️ Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Check out the Daily Stoic Store for Stoic inspired products, signed books, and more.📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Emily, do you remember when One Direction called it a day? I think you'll find there are still many people who can't talk about it. Well luckily, we can. A lot. Because our new season of Terabli Famous is all about the first One Directioner to go it alone. Zayn Malik. We'll take you on Zayn's journey from Shilad from Bradford to being in the world's biggest boy band and explore why, when he reached the top, he decided to walk away.

Follow Terabli Famous wherever you get your podcast. Ghosts aren't real. At least as a journalist, that's what I've always believed. Sure, odd things happened in my childhood bedroom, but ultimately I shrugged it all off. That is, until a couple of years ago, when I discovered that every subsequent argument of that house is convinced they've experienced something inexplicable too, including the most recent inhabitant who says she was visited at night by the ghost of a faceless woman. And it gets even stranger. It just so happens that the alleged ghost haunting my childhood room might just be my wife's great grandmother. It was murdered in

the house next door by two gunshots to the face. From Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios comes Ghost Story, a podcast about family secrets overwhelming coincidence and the things that come back to haunt us. Follow Ghost Story on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes ad-free right now by joining W Reef Boss. Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic. Each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend we take a deeper dive into those same topics.

We interview stoic philosophers, we explore at length how these stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend, when you have a little bit more space when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal, and most importantly to prepare for what the week ahead may bring. Hey, it's Ryan Hall. They welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcasts. You know, I think when people think of stoicism, they don't think of humor, and they don't think funny. I get that, in fact, stoicism sort of represents

to a lot of people the opposite of funny, with a lack of emotion, a joy, laughter, et cetera. But every time I talk to a comedian on this podcast, I try to tell them the story of Crescipis who literally dies of laughter. And actually when I had today's guests wife on the podcast, if you listen to my interview with Christine of P, we delved into that story in depth. That wasn't one of the things that I got into in what was a awesome two-hour interview with one of my favorite comedians, Tom Segura. You've probably seen some of his Netflix specials,

the most recent of which is called Sledgehammer, which is absolutely fantastic. Bahlharg is great, disgraceful is great. He's got a bunch of others. And I've actually taken a bunch out of his specials. If you get the Daily Dad newsletter, I've taken a number of bits that Tom has, so expertly put together, and use them as the core of

some of the messages about parenting because as Tom's career has gone on, he's had kids. And that's of course now figures into his comedy. You've probably seen clips from his incredibly viral and enormous podcast. He co-hosts one with his wife, Christina P, who was on the podcast recently, called her mom's house. And then even bigger is two bears, one cave with Bert Kreicher. And I was on that podcast, maybe six, seven months ago, so you can check that out on YouTube. Tom is one of the biggest selling touring acts in the world. He sold hundreds of thousands of tickets. And he is a recent Austin transplant. And I'm excited to have him on the podcast. He stopped by the Payton Porch. I gave him a bunch

of my favorite books, which I will post later on social. If you want to get some of the World War 2 books that I recommended. But if you haven't checked out Sledgehammer, you absolutely should. It's great. You can follow him at Segura Tom on Instagram or at Tom Segura on Twitter and YouTube. Check out his new specials. They are fantastic and you can find him touring, which he does all the time at tomsegura.com slash tour. This is a two part special so I will be bringing you part two later in the week. Enjoy. week. Enjoy. So yeah, when we talk last time, I was telling you that I was

delaying the book almost a year, and I turned it in yesterday. Yeah, day before yesterday, which is about the year delay on the on the thing, which is a weird experience when you finish. Mm-hmm. And I know you just finished a special. So when you finish a special, do you have to toss? I do. It's done. Well, you don't toss it the moment that you're done shooting it.

Yeah. There's this thing that's great about it. It's probably the same way you writing where you go when you're done. Like you can't manufacture being done, being the reality of being done. In other words, you can't go, I'll work on my next thing as I'm still working on this one, you know, like you go, like, no, no, once it's done, that's a reality. Yes. And then you go, okay, that work is done.

I can move on. So your brain, when you do stand up, you want to move on. Right. You want to move on from the material. You want to create something else, but you're still performing this thing all the time. Right. So when you're done with it, it's like your brain goes like, like it like relaxes and you start to be able to create new stuff, but there's nothing like the day that it comes out because that day... Can everyone knows your time. Then everyone knows your time, and you go, I am never doing this again. Right?

So then it's a... It's like you've released it, and you have this room in your head. Sure. That you can't artificially create the room. Yeah. It's real that day. That's the great thing is you go, there's a panic of like, I don't have anything.

Yeah. But it's also excitement because you go, I'm gonna come up with something. Yeah. I was just thinking about that because so I'm doing this four book series. So I just, I turned in on Tuesday the third one. And how long you been

done with it? Like about a year. Like I mean more like eight months. And eight nine months, it was like the it could have gone into production. And instead I took eight, nine months would ultimately be a year delivery delay to just like fiddle with it and think about just kind of let it sit and rest and go back. Did you just- Did you just- Did you just- Did you just- Did you just know that? Yeah, it was like a whole- With publishing, it's like a contractual thing. So like we had to like amend a contract and go- Okay. This is- This was gonna be delivered January 1st and come out-

It should be coming out like in two weeks. Okay. That was- This schedule was on. Instead, it's gonna come out in the mid-summer of 2024. I got you. There's a longer delay process on book publishing, but so I've been doing these four books, and so the big thing is, you finish a book, you don't get to go like, I wonder what I'm going to do next. You're like, I know what you have to do next, but you've been so preoccupied, you haven't

been able to conceive of what that would actually be. You can't be planning for it at the same time. So I turned it in on Tuesday and then I was riding my bike yesterday afternoon and literally as I get to the end of the road where I turn around, the structure of the fourth book, it just popped into my head. This book that I didn't know how it would go, what it would look like, just all of a sudden,

like, because it's gonna be three parts, what the first part's gonna be about, the second part's gonna be, and the third part, and who the characters will be, it just happened. And it felt, it was such an illustration of exactly what you're talking about, which is your mind can't move on to the next thing until you have some sort of closure or finish.

Like, there shouldn't be a reason that you shouldn't be able to think of new material. Right. But because you have this lane in your mind, it's not till that ends that the engine that generates the new stuff just kicks on immediately. I heard this one writer, a comedy writer, and I wish I could credit the person

so I don't remember who said it. But he was like, because you do this thing when you at least write jokes, where you go like, oh, uh, like you saved this one for this. Yeah, yeah. And hold on to this one. Oh, that, that I'll use for that. And he was like, don't do that. You never, never do that.

He was like just, and I think he was talking also about writing. It might have been for like live to maybe SNL or something. So he was like, sometimes you go like, this one I'll save for like put, if it's a joke, it's good, you like it, you put it in and you know, let it get turned down or let it bomb us, but don't save the joke. And I think that's like a good less, like what you end up doing in standup with specials is like you end up performing things, you go just perform all of it. Then when you're in the edit, you can cut things out,

which is the way to go. I always tell, because I've had friends who are like, I'm gonna shoot, I think I'll shoot, I go shoot all of it. Shoot because it's very way to go. I always tell, because I've had friends who are like, I'm going to shoot, I think I'll shoot, I go, shoot all of it. Shoot because it's very easy to go. Yeah, just cut that out. And it'll be like, it'll be seamless. You won't be able to see it. But you don't want to wish you had shot it too. Well, actually, I would, I think the common thread of all of that is if you're, it's like, you want to be intentional, but if you're too intentional, you're just like

getting up and you're like, get too much in your own head about it. Yeah. Which is like the less precious you are if you're just like make all the stuff. Yeah. And then figured out later like there's definitely been, there's chapter, there was a chapter that was in the first book in the series and the courage book that I moved to the discipline book. Oh. That while I was writing the discipline book, I moved to the justice book. Oh. So like it kept not, and now it's like perfect right there. There's been some chapters where in retrospect, I wish I'd kept them out. Like, I wish I had saved it.

So it's for, it was a different way of thinking about things because usually you're just able to, like, you're only working on the one project you are. But if you have sold it, like, if you're working on a television series, and you know the arc of the show, you don't wanna waste stuff in season one that actually makes more sense. Sure, so you do have to think about arcs, but I think if you're two, if you're two,

like, well, what are they gonna think about this? What you're not thinking about is like, what is best right now? Like, what's exciting, what's interesting, and just do that? Yeah, especially if the other thing is like if you're excited about it. And then this probably applies more to jokes than like,

story and arc, you know, a structure of how a story should go, but like in a joke, if you're excited about it, you just gotta let it rip, you know. Yeah. I had a bit that I was touring with and I recorded in the special disgraceful, which came out in 2018. I cut it out of the special and I recorded in the special disgraceful, which came out in 2018. I cut it out of the special,

and I was like, I don't know, I just like, something about me. And so I always listen to that voice, if it's like some type of doubt. So I cut it out, I did it a little bit on the next tour, and then I shot it, which when the next special was ballhawk, and then I cut it out again. Yeah.

And then I tweaked it again, but I didn't really do it much on this last tour. I did it a few times, like, you know, sparingly on certain shows. And then I don't think I shot it. I don't think I shot it. And so I now have a new hour. Yeah.

Since, um, Sledgehammer came out, I have a new hour. The full hour of new material., I have a new hour. A full hour of new material. A full hour of new material. Because it's been in the can for how long? Sledgehammer. Sledgehammer came out 4th of July.

No, but how long was it in the can? Oh. So according to release, it was shot in November. Okay, so that's, yeah, I don't think people fully realize how much space there is. So as soon as that floodgate opened, if you could create new stuff, I mean, even from there until it came out, that was several months. That was several months, although my most creative time is after the special came out. So honestly, the last eight weeks, I've generated more than in the previous six, seven months.

Because there's a period of rest and recovery and then you're excited. And then you get in creative mode. And then now I'm in, I'm still, I would say, in a creative mode, because it's not like, oh, my hour's great. I hope you check it out and love it. It's like, I feel like it's like, you know,

60 to 70% there and then it needs a lot of tweaking and it needs new stuff and I need to drop stuff. But that one bit that I've told you I've been doing is currently at the moment, the closer. That's all like I've taken it and I've tweaked it and I've moved it several times and right now I'm closing with it Interesting. Well, I bet I bet there's probably so that the scary thing is starting at zero, right? And so having something that you move from play is is I would imagine kind of a hack

Yeah, to just not feel like you have nothing. Yeah, it is generally by the way When you finish a special, you go, all right, well, I'm not including these five things. So you have them for the next thing. Your B-sides start the thing. And I did the thing this time that I've never done before, which as I asked Netflix, I was like, can I just release those as like online content? Yeah. And they were like, sure.

So as bonus material. Yeah. And so were like, sure. So as bonus material. And so we put it on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. It got millions of views. And then I was like, oh, that's gone. Like I don't get to use that. You know what I mean? Yeah, you were burning the boats in a different way. But I did it to myself and I knew what I was doing.

Yeah. But I think I just also was just like, I just wanted it out, you know. Fresh start. Fresh start. Fresh start. Yeah. Well, we were looking at that Hemingway print in my office. This is the first draft of anything as shit.

And actually my writing, one of my old editors is the one who designed that. And he made it so, like even, we could have, he made it so it's imagining Hemingway even workshopping that line. Yeah. But I think you're like, I have an hour. That's like, for me, that's like,

I know what the book is and I have most of the content there. But that's in some ways, not the easy part, but it's like, it's just this, the first mountain is just like getting it all down and then figuring out what it is and refining it and improving it and working and working. That's in some ways the harder, but maybe even the more important part. Yeah.

And right now, I'm at this part, which I mean, I'm sure there's a similarity in writing a book, but I have this problem area where I've had this bit land well and land horribly, which tells me something, right? When I have done this long enough, where like I can analyze it. had this bit land well and land horribly. Sure. Tells me something, right? When I have done this long enough where I can analyze it. A is that you know that that bit is not bulletproof,

which you want your bits to be pretty bulletproof. Meaning if you're not performing it perfectly, the writing is so strong that it still gets the laughs. But this is not this section that I'm talking about is very delicate. And if I'm not like perfect performing it, then it falls apart, which lets me know that there is work to do, right? And that I'm having to like, I've thought about abandoning a bit, which is always it's also a sign And that I'm having to like, like, I've thought about abandoning a bit, which is always, it's also a sign where you later on you're like, oh, but I should, that means I'm scared, you know? And then I think about like, okay, maybe my approach in,

so I try to new way in, because the way in kind of sets everything up. And right now, I'm just like, yeah, I don't have to figure it out, you know, but I still want to keep working it. That's what I found like with this extra year or whatever is it just, it allowed me to go back over it so many more times, which could be a problem potentially, because you can, you can get too self-indulgent to up in your own head or whatever, but, but like, I would read it and then I'd be like, where do I find myself skimming my own book? And then it's like, okay, that needs to be 10 or 20% shorter. Like, where am I, I would just, where can I connect things better together or just sort of going through and going, yeah, it's working some of the times, not other times. Then I always, I like to show stuff to people and go like, what parts don't you like?

And then it's not that I cut those parts, but then I fix, what you're telling me is some, there's a writing rule I like, which is, if somebody tells you something's wrong, they're almost always right. If they tell you how to fix it, they're almost always wrong. And so, that something is wrong is correct. But if they knew how to fix it,

they would be doing your job. You know how to fix it. It's your thing. And so it's like noted, I heard the problem, but I have to go under the hood and figure out what it is. And it may be that it shouldn't be in there at all, or it's not doing what I wanted to do. It's a really good point.

And I really wish now now I can, you know, I actually have the ability to critically analyze notes. My own stuff, you know, like I could, like this last special, I was really happy with the fact that I was less precious than in, took me all this time to be like, oh, we need to cut things. Like before I'd be like, just just print, like just go with it. 76 minutes long, great. And I was like, no, it's too long.

Like I would go, like when I would look back at those earlier ones, I would go like, I should have cut this, this and this. But I didn't do that until later on. Like later on, a few years later, I was like, oh, this is too long. But that must have been really hard because the, I think I saw two clips that got cut

and they're both really fucking good. They did hit, they hit really strong. But for some reason it was easy to cut them. It was easy for me. Is that because you're less precious? Or I just was able to go, like I made, I made very swift decisions about, like so one of them, it was a bit that originated during COVID.

And even by the time I came up to shooting it, I was like, I started to feel that there's this. That's the one about the Go Into Your Kids school. But you feel like this, I don't watch my hands that much. Yeah, you feel like this funk in when something starts to feel dated. Yeah. And so in the months leading up to taping, I feel like this funk when something starts to feel dated. Yeah.

And so like in the months leading up to taping, I was already like, you know, it was late 2022. Yeah. That one's really doing this. And then Jim Gaffigan's new special, he opens in a mask and it's kind of a funny joke, but it felt very dated.

It was an interesting choice. Yeah, I mean, look, here's the thing. Every comedian has bits about it. We always talk about whatever's going on. The biggest thing that happens. Sure. So we all do it. And then it just is, but for me, when I got to that,

so I shot it and I felt a certain way. And in the edit, when I was like, I want this to be 60 minutes. Why 60 minutes? I just felt, I feel like I learned on tour and touring for all these years. The first thing you do is you go you're trying you know when you're starting out as a stamp to try and build material. I have five minutes I have 15 minutes. I have a half hour I have an hour and then you get into this thing where you're like somebody's like I can do 80 minutes. Yeah you

know I was shaking to 80 minutes And then you're like figuring out that the more you tour and do it, the longer you can do. So there's nights I've done 85, 90 minutes, you know, on stage. And you realize part of that's kind of like, just ego of like, look how long I can be up here. Yeah. And no one can make me leave.

No one can make me leave. And the audience is staying. And then, but what I realized is that, I mean, this is my take on it. No one really wants you to be up there that long. Like, there's a reason why, there's a reason why the clubs start booking you and they go, can you do 45 to 60?

Right, that's a headlining time. Ultimately, what I realized is that if you hammer it, like kill it for between 60 and 70 minutes, when you say good night, people pop out of their seats. They pop up. Right. And they're also like, is this over? Yeah. Right? Essentially saying, I wish this were longer. Yes. And then when you do 90 minutes, and you're doing one, this is not like kind of like you're killing, but like 90s of different ride, you know, it's like there's peaks and valleys.

You see, and I've seen these shows too, even as like an audience member, you see people that you go, good night at 90 and they go. And they kind of get up like slowly and you're like, oh, like that's a lot. That's 50% more time in their seat. It's a long time. So when I was watching specials, even now when specials come out, sometimes I'll see the runtime and I'm like,

it's like 82 minutes or like 77 minutes. And I realized that like if you can deliver 60 minutes hard, which is like the stand up time for a headliner and you hit it pretty tight, it would kind of convey that same feeling of like, that's it, it's over, it's an out, it's like it's the amount of time that I think is perfect to deliver. So it was my goal, it's an out, it's like, it's the amount of time that I think is perfect to deliver.

So it was my goal, it was my goal to try to like, and even if it's arbitrary, the forcing function of the time that forced you probably to be harder on yourself and just to make decisions and make them quickly. Yeah, and I like, I mean, I cut that COVID thing, I felt great about it. It was like, they're like, all right, you just lost like four and a half minutes, that was like great.

And then I just started like, looking at other bits and just trying to figure out what could go. [♪ Music playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, This of a Red-handed, a weekly true crime podcast. Every week on Red-handed, we yet stuck into the most talked about cases. But we also dig into those you might not have heard of, like the Nephiles Royal Massacre and the Nithory Child Sacrifices. Whatever the case, we want to know what pushes people to the extremes of human behavior. Find, download, and binge Red-handed wherever you listen to your podcasts. We can't see tomorrow, but we can hear it. And it sounds like a wind farm powering homes across the country. We're bridging to a sustainable energy future,

working today to ensure tomorrow is on. And bridge, life takes energy. That's what I did with this year. I cut almost 8,000 words, which is 10% of the whole thing. Just slowly, you're just cutting. And I was adding stuff in also. So I was cutting more. The nice part about editing when you're writing is you can put more. You can put more. So you're like, okay, it's 10% shorter, but it's also better because there's more sort of bang for your buck in there.

But I reread the obstacle as the way to my son at some point during the pandemic. He wanted to like read something I'd written and so I read it to him and I was like, this is fast. Like I was like, this is so short. And it would be like a band listening to their first album or something. You're just like, there's no, there's just no fat in it at all.

And I struggled with it in two ways. One, it was like, I was jealous. I was like, this is so short and tight and fast. It's like probably 50,000 words. Whereas like, this book 72, 73, something like that. I said, damn. And then the other part of me though is the reason it's like, I go back and forth,

is it getting longer because I'm being less critical of myself, less lowering my standards of getting more self-indulgent? Or is it actually that one I'm better and I have more to say? And two, I won't, I think, right, one of the things you learn as you get older is that shit's more complicated, and it's more nuanced. And things you would have said when you were younger, you would never allow yourself to say, because you know it's not honest. That's amazing. So like, you're getting longer, are you getting longer because you're a wind bag

or are you getting longer because you're more honest? You are fair. It's that. And that tension, it could be one, for one joke, it could be one thing, for another joke, it could be another and knowing the difference is really hard. That's totally, and everything you're saying about

like the truth is you are better, you see the world differently, through a different lens, your wiser. Yeah. And so the way you approach your writing is gonna be that way, the same way that like, you know, I was watching stand-up the other day, I was at the club in Austin, at the mothership there.

And we were on the balcony, Andrew Santino, and we were watching one of the younger guys. at the club in Austin at the mothership there. And we were on the balcony, Andrew Santino, and we were watching one of the younger guys. And I was like, do you remember? Because he was doing this thing where he was getting laughs, but it was so early stand up way of presenting. And I was like, you remember having bits like this? And he was like, oh, yeah, it was so indicative, not just of this guy, but of that time in your life as a standup.

It was that type of standup. And I was like, like, he and I were like, we don't do bits like this anymore. But we were both like reminiscing, like, I remember being 24. Yes. And that this was my approach to stand up. Yeah, like a 26 year old, giving you advice, writing about overcoming obstacles. I'm definitely deficient in empathy, understand, new, like there's a bunch of ways in which what I'm saying is not incorrect, but it's incomplete.

To complete, but also like as you think about obstacles or just life, you know at your age now you realize how difficult Life can be for people. Yes, and things that like when you're young, you're like I can't like I can't believe that person did that And you're I can totally believe it. You're like you're like oh, yeah That's people go through this and yes people make these types of mistakes and like everything every story that I once was like seriously like you just go like yeah this is just yeah,

for normal. Yeah, you realize it's there's a it's like I experienced that a lot recently a lot where like you're like a customer to grocery store and you're like why is it this dumb way? Yeah, and then you have then you learn something about the economics of that business. Sure. Oh, it makes total sense. Yeah. And this is the way it works. Yeah. And I imagine as a comedian, a lot of the things that drive you nuts, as you get older and you experience more, you're like, oh, I'm, I'm making fun of the wrong person here. Yeah. Like I'm making fun of the victim, also, also a victim of this problem. The real problem is several layers of a core. Sure.

And the other way that you learn to joke is that you, if you're making fun of the victim, you, there's a wink where you're acknowledging that to the audience that you know you're making fun of the wrong person. So you're still allowed to do it, but you're awareness changes, right? So you're just kind of like, right? And then all of a sudden, everyone's like, well, he knows he's making fun of the wrong person. Therefore, it's kind of funny and still out.

You're realizing it's, you're operating on multiple levels because you realize the world is operating on multiple levels. And so you can't say it in a sentence anymore. It's more. I have to point this out to you that when we sat down here, I'm like, man, I keep rubbing my eyes. I'm fucking rubbing it over. No, no, so I'm like, thinking,

I'm like, that fuck is going on. And then I realized that just out of almost courtesy or whatever, when we got, you're like, how are you with cats, when we find it? I just didn't tell you I'm highly allergic to cats. So I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm not going to be able to do it. And that's definitely why I keep rubbing my eyes. Oh, no, I'm so sorry. No, I'm highly allergic to cats. And that's definitely why I came up with my own.

No, I'm so sorry. No, I just thought it was funny that I was like, I'm fine. You did feel comfortable enough to tell me you don't like Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, but here's the thing. Okay, I like to point this out. It's not that I don't like him. What I've found, and this is through living life, and just

is that people, everybody has a feeling and experience with things that they enjoy, movie, especially when it comes to like the entertainment, right? Movies, shows, musicians. And there are people who I've met so many who will let as an example be like Ah Bruce Springsteen like it's he's the shit man. And you're like okay. And then you check it out and you go like you're like 16. Yeah, yeah, you're like sounds fine. And then they're like did you and you're like you know I heard it. And it's like, I don't dislike him. Amuse is, it's almost funny to me. House, I see somebody almost lose their mind

to something that I just, it doesn't affect me. Right? So I was in Europe on tour the same time as him. And we were hitting the same, some of the same cities. Yeah. And one night, I think we were in Dublin and we were hitting the same, some of the same cities. Yeah. And one night, I think we were in Dublin, and we had actually had a night off, and they were like, hey, you can go see Springsteen tonight.

Like, come in through the back, stand on the side of the stage, like super VIP. And I was like, oh no, I'm good. And they were like, excuse me. And I was like, this is like meeting the president. I was like, I was like, oh no, I'm good. And they were like, excuse me. And I was like, this is like meeting the president. I was like, I was like, I go, well I mean, it'd be a wasted thing on me. Like, and I've had people be like,

here's what you need to do. You need to check out this 1977 show of the, and I look at the thing and I'm like, it's very nice. Yeah. It just, I don't hate the guy or just like what he does or think that he's not talented I'm saying that it just doesn't have the same effect and here's the best part The next day was my show and he came no, but like a bunch of the Eastern

And they were all I'm done you guys were here One of my favorite things that Charlemagne does is he pretends that he doesn't know who the Beatles are. That's funny. And it just drives white people like absolutely the same. Yeah, what? Oh, are they good? Yeah. Been spring, there's a couple acts that I'm a fan of springs

and just like as a fan of springs and not like he changed. I think not being an East Coast person, he doesn't mean anything to me as like a person, you know, I just think he's a, I like his music, but that's, that's, you, and about 55 million other people. Well, that book, the book I was recommending to you is called Deliver Me From Noir, and it's about, which I actually, we should talk about this. So it's about the recording of the album Nebraska, which, so he does, what does he do?

He does born to run, which is his first big breakthrough albums, first number like charting album, and then, so they think he should do another huge East Street band album, and instead he goes into his bathroom and he basically records on a four track recorder in the 1980s. So he records these demos of these songs and he thinks they're going to be East Street band songs. Like he's just recording the sort of solo, like demo versions, and then they're all going to go. So they go in the studio and none of them work.

They don't work together. And so he could throw them all out or rewrite them to work. Instead, he's like, let's just put it out as it is. So he puts out Nebraska, which is the bathroom recordings? Basically the bathroom recordings. So it's actually this, maybe one of the most punk things in the history of music. You have this guy, an ascended musician

who's about to put out like a follow up to his huge album and he just does the opposite of what everyone's gonna think. And like they can't even remix the 4 track because it becomes this extremely difficult album to master, comes out and then it blows people away because it's so different. But the sort of twist on all that is the one song that doesn't make the album is born in the USA, which you can hear the Nebraska version, and then that's the one that he keeps saves for later to go to what we're saying about how you should never. He saves it for later, and then the whole album is built around that as an easterly band

song. She comes one of the biggest songs of all time. So that's the one that he cut out. He didn't do the sort of acoustic, like low end sort of sad, depressive, a different version of Bruce Springsteen. He, that song gets saved and becomes what it was ultimately actually meant to become, which is the big sort of upbeat. Because that's the other thing that's right.

Like everyone thought born in the USA was, like Reagan used it as like a campaign song and Bruce Springsteen's like, this is about the opposite of you. I remember that. I fucking hate you. Those stories are always great to when the politicians just use a song and you almost always seem,

it seems like the band goes could you not like we don't want you to play this yeah yeah who's that guy you just introduced him on stage oh yeah all of our Anthony yeah he was like no it's about the Republicans yeah it's hilarious yeah he's such an innocent it's crazy. I don't know if anybody can quite relate to this kids experience. Yeah. Cause he was like unknown eight weeks ago. I know. And now he's like a political prop basically.

And he's just like, uh, I'm not, you know, I didn't want to pardon any of your guys thing. I'm just, I like to make music and. Yeah. The only thing I think about that one though is it's like, it's supposed to be this like sort of working class song. Yeah, the only thing I think about that one, though, is it's supposed to be this sort of working-class song. Yeah. But the core of it is a, how he doesn't fat people on welfare. There is a meanness to that song.

Yeah, it's about a 300-pound person on welfare, you know, buying fudge rounds with their welfare checks. But is any saying in that song that like, that those men in Washington aren't helping the person who is in that situation? He's saying my money shouldn't pay for your fudge rounds. That's what it says in the song. There's a mean part in it too.

So I think he was repeating just random stuff. Like I think in that, he's kind of repeating repeating, it's not a right-wing talking point, but he's repeating something that people say, but when you hear it as music, you're like, that's fucking mean. Oh, wow. Anyway, I don't really listen to lyrics that much. Yeah, I didn't even do it. But anyways, the point is it's a good example of like, he takes, Bruce Springson takes his hard left turn,

which the guy in the book, the book is all about the making of Nebraska, but he talks about, he basically says that, that Nebraska is the pulling back of the bow and then born in the USA is the release of the bow. And so he does, it's this crazy kind of jiu-jitsu move because everyone thinks he's gonna do one thing. He does the opposite. And then he goes,. It's this crazy kind of jiu-jitsu move because everyone thinks he's going to do one thing. He does the opposite.

And then he goes, does the opposite of the opposite and had he gone born to run, born in the USA, it maybe wouldn't have worked. It's that he has this jitter in the middle that makes it so explosive. And then Nebraska becomes this sort of cult favorite under it. It's like, it's a musician's musician's, musician's album.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all the artists say it's his best album. And it's the, you know, when you have the, it's so exciting, like one of the more exciting things, even not being familiar with it. In art is making decisions that are unexpected and dissapearing. I wanna do this when you think I'm going to do this, pivoting. It's like the thing that I love about,

one of the things I love about being a comic and that you're an entrepreneur and that you can just make choices to do what you want to do. It's like there, you have the space, it's your thing. No one's really telling me what to do. And so you have the space, it's your thing, no one's really telling you what to do. And so you have to make those decisions. Because like they, like the, so are our other people involved,

they're never gonna tell you to do something crazy or unpredictable because if it doesn't work, they get fired. Nobody wants to suggest the idea that gets them yelled at. All the suggestions are like how to make it much safer and here's what people normally do at this position. Yeah. I could tell you oh my god so many times in development. It's just in TV development specifically, it just gets watered the fuck down to the like when you're like why is why are all these shows such bullshit? Yeah. So bad. Yeah.

And it's because of those meetings. It is 1,000%. Right. And here's the thing. They tell you when you start, guess what? We're going to let you do whatever you want to do. Of course. And you're like, really?

And you get all excited by it. And they're like, yeah, this is going to be the Ryan show. And you're like, that sounds cool. And then you just start handing in drafts and hearing these notes. And you're like, this feels like the same dumb shit that I see all the time. And then the final thing looks nothing like what you wanted. Well, I think the trouble is, so it's like it's it's a given that most things are not going to work. Right. Right. So like, they're not judged on success or failure. Yeah it can't be, right? Because they assume a lot of times

it's not gonna work even if it was good. And so, what are they, like how do you evaluate, how does that person in the meetings boss evaluate them? It becomes like, did they say dumb things in the meat? Like, you don't mean it becomes just this sort of like, safe, safeness and like not wanting to rock the, you just wanna, you know it's not gonna work,

but you don't want it to work, not work in such a way that retroactively you're the person that gets fired. Sure, and also you have to realize that when you're in, you don't realize this when you start, that the people who are sitting in the round giving you the notes have to justify the salaries that they get from these huge studios that are often pretty hefty salaries. And if they're just like, you're funny, you're good,

just, I trust you, they'd be like, what the fuck do we need you for? So that person has to give you all these notes that you go like, this doesn't really feel right? I mean, isn't that a tricky thing with ego too? Because like, if you're like, I'm a person, I don't take notes, I'm the expert. You can't tell me anything.

That person usually ends up crashing and perhing. And then if you're the person who takes all the notes, that's how you end up with this sort of dog shit, middle of the road, compromise on everything. And so knowing like what notes to take and when to listen. That's something that's a skill set, right? Like I feel like it's a skill set that you're constantly evolving and learning to do better.

And I feel like, you know, it's what I love about producing things whether like, you know, I have TV projects, movie, those are very collaborative. Yeah. And stand up, you learn to trust. Obviously, you have a trust with an audience in a way, right? It's an unspoken thing where you're like, well, this is killing, it works, this is bombing, it doesn't.

But you also have like friends, right? Comedian, I do that you're like, they're watching and they kind of go like, hmm, you know, like, that's not great. And then you go like, oh, I believe them. Yeah. Or this thing's great, but you need, like you're saying, you need to figure out something here. And you trust their voice, right?

The one that was really interesting to me that you've experienced far more was in writing my book. Because when I wrote the book, my previous writing experience was all television stuff. I'd written a writer on Comedy Central, Pilots, and Network stuff. I'd done Pilots for both cable and networks. Those were all my writing and a lot of the notes, you were like, it's brutal. I've done pilots for both cable and networks. So those were all my writing and all that a lot of the notes, you're like, it's brutal.

So I was writing this thing and I sent it off to the publisher the first time and I was like, here we fucking go. And I could just tell immediately when I got her notes back that I was like, these are great notes. And so I was like, oh, these are great notes. Oh, sure. And so I was like very excited. Yeah.

Like, she didn't, I don't feel like ever mislead me or like make it corny or like she elevated what I did. And I was like, oh, these are great notes, which I was really thankful for. The End We can't see tomorrow, but we can hear it. Tomorrow sounds like hydrogen being added to natural gas to make it more sustainable. It sounds like solar panels generating thousands of megawatts, and it's a lot of energy. We can't see tomorrow, but we can hear it. Tomorrow sounds like hydrogen being added to natural gas to make it more sustainable. It sounds like solar panels generating thousands of megawatts, and it sounds like carbon being

captured and stored, keeping it out of our atmosphere. We've been bridging to a sustainable energy future for more than 20 years. Because what we do today helps ensure tomorrow is on. And bridge. Life takes energy. Yeah, it's like when I started in publishing, you know, the editor knows more than you, right? The person knows more than you. And they know, and you only know a little bit about yourself, right? And then as you go, you get more experienced, you learn more, you also have a certain track record

and you know your audience because you're the only one talking to the audience. And so it's this weird thing that's happened in mine. I was actually just talking to my editor now is the public. Oh, sorry. I said public. Well, yes, she's my editor. Yeah, but now my editor is that also the head of the publisher. Oh, and so it's this weird thing where, like, he doesn't give me notes. At all. Basically none. And I had to go like, I enjoy that. I do know what I'm doing. But at the same time, I don't want to get myself

in trouble where I'm, yeah, I want it to still be tight. I want it to, I want to be challenged. So I'm having to work out this like tension, this new book that I'm starting now will be the first one where I had zero editors involved. Like I had, I used to work with this sort of other editor like outside and we're not working together anymore. And so this is the first one where it's like,

oh, there's no guardrails. And so I'm gonna have to create some guardrails. And like no one, like nobody will read and go like, good. Or like, well, it's like, like I submitted the manuscript and then like I'll get an email. We like, oh, I like this. Maybe Titan here and maybe do this. That's it. It's like an email, not like line by line. I'm just copy editing and later stuff for like,

factuals, but like no one's like, hey, dude, like, I'm not sure this works. Right. You know, like no one, like, hey dude, like I'm not sure this works. You know, like no one wants to. And no one in your life, on your side like friends, like does a read where they give you a shabby. Well, it's like I have to now, I have to, I have to voluntarily submit to that process, whereas you could see, and you can see how, if you were not interested in that,

how you're not gonna immediately crash and burn, but you could, you can drift. And this is how you get indulgent, this is how you say things, you shouldn't, you shouldn't get lazy. And no one tells you that you're falling off, but you're falling off because you're not going through the same process anymore.

It's what's crazy when you learn about the directors who have that when they're like, here's the cut. And the studio has to go like, all right. I mean, there's a few, here's the cut. Yes. And the studio has to go like, all right. Right. I mean, there's a few. It's like a handful, because everybody else gets a heavy handed. Yes.

You need to do this. And this is too much and cut this. And like, there's those like eight directors where they're like, I'll give it to you when it's done. And you think you want that. Yeah. Maybe you don't. Maybe you don't.

I don't know. I don't know. I think I can see how you would want that more Maybe you don't. Maybe you don't. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I think I can see how you would want that more as you progress, right? As you learn and get better at the craft. Yeah. But I still think even, I mean, with movies too, you're not going to be like no one's seen. You're going to, even those guys have their trusted producers and inner circle who are watching cuts with them.

Yeah. But still like they're just like, nah, this is your printing, this is it. Yeah. Like this is the movie. Yeah, and then I mean the internet adds to that too. Like at least with publishing or a special, like there's still this, all these, like, you know, maybe the sound guys can be like, hey, I don't know about that. Like you could still just get ancillary feedback, but what's hard about the internet or video, you can just put shit up. And so you see how people get in trouble because they're just not thinking about how people are going to receive this in any way.

And once it's out, you can't take it back out. You didn't workshop it. Just shoot out the top of your head. I mean, I definitely like having input, valued input. Yeah. I don't want meaningless, short list. Yeah, fun, you know, but like when somebody is putting critical thought into it, I enjoy.

Yeah. And then, and then it's also weird, because the audience interact, like was it weird for you when you cut those pieces from the special and then they blew up? Did you question whether you should have cut them at all? For it, I mean, some of them, I think there was three that I put out. I would say that briefly for a second, I'm like, should I have? But then I felt, I still realized that I was like, no, I felt good about the decision when I did it. And I'm happy with the final

product. So I'm like, you know, the main thing was like, I wanted the stuff to live somewhere. Yeah. And I didn't feel like, here's the other thing, is I didn't, I think what made me go put this out, I didn't want to carry it over. Like, you know, I didn't feel good about, hey, I toured, I did 300 shows with this.

Now I want to start my next hour with, I was like, I want to release it. Right. And I'm not bothered by the fact that it's not in the special. Well, that's another tricky thing though, right? It's like, so you make the decision is you think it's right. And then the audience gives it like the thumbs up thumbs up. Yeah. And that doesn't change whether it's good or not.

No, that's true. Yeah. And I did get a lot of like, why the hell would you cut this? Yeah. You know, this was the best part, and I'm like, I felt like it wasn't so. And you're like, it wasn't what I was trying to do

in the special. Yeah, exactly. It was good and that it got lots of views, but it wasn't the hour that I was trying to make. Exactly, and I look back at other specials, and the thing that I used to like sign off on leaving it in, did it get laughs? Yes. You go leave it in. Right. And then, you know, a year or two or more later, you look back and you're like, that didn't contribute anything to the

special other than it got laughs. But I don't feel like it didn't make the special better. And if I had cut that thing that got laughs, it doesn't make the special worse. So it doesn't belong. I feel like that's one component of mastery or real expertise at something, is the ability to actually know what you're doing and what you're trying to do.

Right, so it's like, there's a difference between like, I'm trying to put out something that's funny. And then this is the special that I am making. So like, I found, and this was some of my classes within earlier editor that I had, which is like, if I didn't know what the book I was trying to make was, I was just trying to make a book, but I didn't know, no, this is the book I make. I could make any book, and I know I could do this idea this way, or this way, but the one that gets me excited, that I've decided I wanna do with this chunk of life that I'm giving it to is this. So like, your notes that help me do that,

I'm interested in, and the notes that don't are irrelevant. And they're not right or wrong, they're just not here nor there. And so, if you can go like, hey, this is what I'm trying to accomplish here, then it makes it easier to make decisions about include it, not include it. And I think people are bad at this with life as a whole.

They don't know what they want their life to be, like what, like what success is. So they just go, well, someone offered me a lot of money to do X or it's unpleasant to do Y. And so that's actually, sometimes you do unpleasant things to get to a place you want to get, and sometimes you turn down lots of money or a cool opportunity because it gets you far away from where you want to go.

But if you don't have a sense of where you're trying to end up, you're just making these individual decisions and you don't actually have the perspective to know what the best choice is. Yeah, you're totally right. And it's very hard to be able to see clearly all those things when you're 25, that's 20, you know, I mean, like at this age, I can look back and go,

oh, I understand why someone is unaware or not yet there to make those, which makes the people that are 25 and able to see that all the more impressive. In a way, I mean, I do remember having some of that clarity because when I was 21 and I was doing real estate in Boston, I remember being like, you know, you rent apartments, you show people their apartment and you get a crazy fee.

Yeah. For a kid, I'm six weeks out of college. Yeah. Some of my weekly checks were 2 grand, 2,500. I'm like, this is fucking wild. This is a life wild. Yeah, I mean, and I remember getting to September and being like, yeah, but I was just,

it was eating me up that I wasn't performing, but not performing comedy. And so I was like, I'm moving to LA and they were like, you just made like, I forget how much it was. In a few weeks, $12, $15,000, it was clear I was gonna make, I was gonna be 21 and be making $150,000. And now I didn't get that money yet,

but it just felt like the writing was on the wall and that and I just was like, yeah, but I don't want to be showing you departments. Even for the money. Yeah, sometimes it's this kind of vague, almost immature sense. But I remember as I'm good showing my 20s, I worked in American Parallels, this marketing director. And I had the school job. I was like the director of marketing in a public-intrigued company in my early 20s.

It was a cool, everyone thought. It was American Parallels, like a cool shit, yeah. And I remember I went to this every week. I would, every year I would go to this conference in New York called Ad Week. And I went the first year, it was sort of cool. I'm the youngest person there probably. Next year I went, the third year I go,

I'm sort of looking around and everyone's wearing suits and I'm the youngest person there probably next year. I went the third year I go, I'm sort of looking around and everyone's wearing suits and I'm not. And I just remember going, if I keep coming to this, one year I'm gonna show up in a suit. And I was like, I don't wanna be a person that wears a suit. That is like, and so that's very immature. Like now, if there's something important I wanted to do and I had to put on a suit or if I had to provide

for my kids wearing a suit, I would not hesitate. But then I was just like, I had to put on a suit or if I had to provide for my kids when I'm going to suit, I would not hesitate. But then I was just like, I don't want to be a suit person. You know what I mean? Because the thing is, you don't want to be that guy. I don't want to be that guy. And maybe that guy's really happy and awesome and does work. But I had some visceral disdain for what they represented. And it was all dudes pretty much.

And I was like, I don't want that. So I was like, I got to get the fuck out of here. Like I got to start making decisions. And so, yeah, if you don't have this sense So I was like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. Like I gotta start making decisions. And so, yeah, if you don't have this sense of where you wanna end up, you end up just taking things that are cool or exciting or where you're getting some traction or momentum, but that's getting you far away from where you ultimately wanna end up. This leads me to this kind of thought for you, though.

And maybe because you have an answer on this. Because I feel like I really knew that I want to do, I want to perform. I didn't know I wanted to stand up at the time, thought maybe I want to act. But I knew I knew that. But for what do you say to people? Because I imagine I've heard people be like, I don't know what I want to do. What do you tell them when they're being like, yeah, you're right. You're right. And then I don't know where I want to end up.

I don't know where I want to end up. Yeah. And Robert Green's Master, he talks about like your sort of life's task. Like how do you find what that thing is? People go like, what's my passion? He's basically saying, I think it's true. It usually goes back to some point in your childhood or early teen years. You discovered this thing that like lit you up, that got you excited. And then there was some part of you that said, this is It's true. It usually goes back to some point in your childhood or early teen years, you discovered

this thing that like lit you up, got you excited. And then there was some part of you that said, this is impractical, this is impossible, this is too hard, and you turned away from that. And it's usually not that you don't know what it is. It's that you've decided that it can't be something that you've already. Right. You know what I mean? You're almost like your brain is blocking it.

Well, it's obviously not photography. Yes, but it's photography. Right, right. I knew I loved books. I wanted to be a writer. I had done this stuff to fund being a writer. I was like, it's time. I got to go get serious about this thing.

And I ended up quitting and moving across country like maybe six, eight months later. And here's the thing is all those stories, right? Like, they sound insane. Like, now it doesn't because you're at this wildly successful, but, right, you tell somebody I quit this and I packed up and they're like, you just fucking stupid. So, like, you should, if you're listening or watching, you got to remember that, like, it might look,

it probably will look crazy or stupid to a lot of people for you to pursue the thing that you really want to do, you know? Well, I would say one way to handle that is just don't fucking tell people. I agree. Like, I 100% agree with that. I wanted to leave Los Angeles, so I didn't bump into people I knew, I'm going to be a writer, you know, and like, I'm gonna be a writer, you know? Well, what happened to that guy, right?

And I didn't want to be sucked back in. So my wife and I, we moved to New Orleans and I was still like freelancing and consulting on stuff. So like, I just told people I was doing that. And so it wasn't until the book was announced, like it had been sold and there was news stories about it, then my friends were there, were like, oh, you're working on a book.

And I realized, like, they didn't care. They just thought, because there's no one on this, I thought I was like a bum basically. But that, like, self-consciousness is the enemy. And so, like, if you're, there's two ways, right? If you're the person who's like, I'm working on a book, and it's gonna be a huge success, you're probably an egomaniac and you're actually suck,

you know, and it's not gonna work. Like I'm moving L.A. to be famous. Like you probably want it's not gonna work out for you. Good luck. And then, or when people say it's not gonna work out for you, you feel that so deeply that it affects you. Like I didn't want people to be like, you, you're gonna do that?

You're not hard it is? So I just was doing it quietly. It wasn't until I had done it that I talked about it. And so I wasn't like susceptible to either judgment or ego or anything. I was just like doing the thing. That's such an important thing. I mean, every time somebody goes,

I'm doing a stand-up for the first time. You know what the, the literally, I go, don't invite anybody. Yes. And they're like, what? I go, don't invite people. Like, don't tell your friends up, go, if you really want to do this, just go do it.

Yeah. Don't invite people for a while. Yeah. Just go do stand-up then. Because you don't want it to be a thing where, and by the way, I made the mistake completely unaware. The first time I did stand up, I told people, and here's the thing, I didn't tell them,

I'm going to do stand up for the first time. I was like, I'm doing stand up. Like I do stand up. Right. And so they were like, oh, I didn't know you do stand up, and I was like, yeah, me neither. You're borrowing against work you haven't done. Yeah.

Yeah, so they all came to, like, I didn't know time to stand up. And I was my first time on I mean, either. You're borrowing against work you haven't done. Yeah. Yeah, so at least they all came to, I didn't know Tom to stand up. And I was my first time on stage. Yeah, so dumb. Oh, it's, yeah, and if it works, it's a problem and if it doesn't work, it's, yeah. And it basically was right in the middle. We're like, I got some laughs and I got some,

you know, like strange looks. Yeah. It was enough where I wanted to do it again, but everybody was like, all right, didn't know what to think about that. I even think about it, like if you are good at something and you're successful and you're just like expanding into something different.

Like so I was successful writing and I was like, videos huge, I'm going to start doing videos. Like I, you don't go, hey everyone, look at me starting to do videos, check it out. Like, like, no, I start these things independently on the side. And you like, like, first, like, I remember when we first started doing like TikToks and Instagram rails for daily.

So I was like, here's what we're going to do. Go take interviews that I've already done from the eight, nine years I've been doing this, cut those into pieces. Let's put those up and let's let it accumulate a little bit of an audience on its own because what I don't want, what the hardest thing to do is to do shit for nobody for an empty room. So it's like let's build up an audience. So then when I do sit down and record something in the camera, I don't have the extra shame of going like six people are going to watch this. And so I kind of try to build, I build my way into stuff, but I also kind of build separately

because that, that like, oh, I'm quitting my job to be a YouTuber now. It's like, then you're gonna have to deal with the humiliation of waking up every day and having 400 subscribers. And you're either gonna, you're either gonna dilute yourself about it, which is dangerous, or you're gonna feel like garbage. Instead, you're either going to delude yourself about it, which is dangerous. Yeah. Or you're going to feel like garbage.

Instead, you should have like kept working your job and just been making stuff on the side under some pseudonym or whatever, and then transition once it's viable. Another thing I screwed up on. Yeah. Yeah, I did that so poorly and not unaware. Like, you know, you do it unaware. What I did was, well, I was, I was doing it where I was doing stand up and had a full time job. And I was, that's the way to do it.

And I'm supporting myself with my job and doing stand up. And your whole goal at this age, I'm 26, 27, is to get with one of the big management companies. Even more so than an agent, because the managers and stand up. Because they do like bookings instead. Well, the managers are like, the big ones are, hold so much power and they're able to, they can make,

they can really make things happen for comics. They're connected to those agents. They're connected to the festivals. They know all the executives at the networks. They know the director. So when I got signed by a big time management company, I was like, oh man, it's like, and this was like,

whoever was saying you gotta try to get with these people, I was like really feeling myself. Yeah. I was supposed to start on a new show, I was working in post production, and this was gonna be like a pretty big rug, post you working for set runs like this would be a 12 week or 16 week kind of run and I was going

to I got a promotion and they were going to give me over time for the first time. Yeah. And they would work us like dogs and I just walked into my post supervisor and I was like, Hey, man, you know, this thing happened yesterday. I signed with a manager. I was like, so I'm not going to be able to like you've, I've made it. I've made it because I have a manager. Yeah.

And then I remember I call. I was like, yeah, he goes, oh, you have an audition for this movie tomorrow. It's first time I had like a big audition. And I was like, yeah, I quit my job and he goes, what? I go, I quit my job. He goes, why? I go, because I'm working with you now. And he was like, oh, okay.

Well, we'll see how that, like you didn't know what to say. And I was like, oh man, I just cut my life support. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it, and I'll see you next episode. Hey, Prime Members. You can listen to the Daily Stoke early and ad free on Amazon Music,

download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad free with Wondery Plus in Apple podcasts. Okay, so if you had a time machine, how far in time would you need to go back to be a dominant basketball player of that year? I need to go to when Bob Coosie was playing. Back in the plumber day. 27 year old Shay would give Bob Coosie the business. He's not guarding me. Hi, I'm Jason Gutscheon. And I'm Shay Serrano. And we are back. We have a new podcast from Wondering. It's called Six Trophies. And it's the best. Each week Shay and I are combing through all of the NBA storylines finding the best,

most interesting, most compelling ones, and then handing out six pop culture theme trophies for six basketball-related activities. Trophies like the Dominic Toretto, I live in my life a quarter mile in a time trophy, which is given to someone who made a short-term decision with no regard for future cons Twits. Or the Christopher Nolan Tenet trophy, which is given to someone who did something that we didn't understand. Catalina Wine Mixer trophy. Ooh, the Lauren Hill you might win some, but you just lost one trophy.

Follow six trophies on the Wondering app or wherever you get your podcasts. Equals to six trophies, add free right now by joining Wondering Plus.