The Daily Stoic - YouTubers Sam and Colby on Fame and Practicing Memento Mori

Episode Date: April 24, 2021

On today’s episode, Ryan talks to YouTube duo Sam & Colby about the early days of their career, finding peace in the practice of memento mori, what they’ve learned making haunted and ghost story videos, and more.Sam Golbach and Colby Brock are an American YouTube exploration and comedy duo. They first started making videos on Vine where they had over 1.6 million followers before the app shut down in 2016. After creating their YouTube channel in 2014 they have amassed over 4 million subscribers and continue to create haunted, exploration videos.This episode is brought to you by Beekeeper’s Naturals, the company that’s reinventing your medicine with clean, effective products that actually work. As a listener of the Daily Stoic Podcast you can receive 15% off your first order. Just go to beekeepersnaturals.com/STOIC or use code STOIC at checkout to claim this deal.This episode is also brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs is the best platform for finding the right candidate to join your business this fall. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit linkedin.com/STOIC to post a job for free. This episode is also brought to you by stamps.com, a secure Internet mailing solution to print postage using your computer.There’s NO risk. Use the promo code, STOIC, to get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage and a digital scale. No long-term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click on the Microphone at the TOP of the homepage and type in STOIC.This episode is also brought to you by Ladder, a painless way to get the life insurance coverage you need for those you care about most. Ladder’s algorithms work quickly and you’ll find out almost immediately if you’re approved. Go to ladderlife.com/stoic to see if you’re instantly approved today.***If you enjoyed this week’s podcast, we’d love for you to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps with our visibility, and the more people listen to the podcast, the more we can invest into it and make it even better.Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: http://DailyStoic.com/signupFollow @DailyStoic:Twitter: https://twitter.com/dailystoicInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/dailystoic/Facebook: http://facebook.com/dailystoicYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/dailystoicTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@daily_stoic Follow Sam and Colby: Homepage: https://shopxplr.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg3gzldyhCHJjY7AWWTNPPA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samandcolby/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SamandColby Twitter: https://twitter.com/SamandColby TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@samandcolby See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoke podcast early and add free on Amazon music download the app today Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoke each weekday We bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics Something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage justice up to those four stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview stoic philosophers. We explore at length how these stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time.

Here on the weekend, when you have a little bit more space when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal, and most importantly, to prepare for what the week ahead may bring. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wonderree's podcast business wars. And in our new season, Walmart must fight off target, the new discounter that's both savvy and fashion forward.

Listen to business wars on Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. I think my guests today are either the youngest or the second youngest guests on the podcast. I'm talking about Sam and Colby, YouTubers, social media stars. Guess you'd call them ghost hunters, scary experience seekers. They like the word challenges. They seek out challenges, whether it's jumping out of planes or staying in an abandoned ghost town or Living in a in an old in a lask in igloo. They just do crazy stuff. They conquer fear

They they push their own boundaries and they have a huge audience that follows them when they do this If you've never heard of them that's probably because you're as old or older than me you've never heard of them, that's probably because you're as old or older than me, but your kids almost certainly have, and more than 4.8 million subscribers follow them on YouTube. Here in their 25th year on the planet, they're following this philosophy that they call Make It Count, which to me is a deeply stoic idea, and they're big readers, and that's what we bonded over. We were introduced through a mutual friend who I've also had on the podcast Brent Underwood who lives is not just a business partner with me in Brass Check but lives up at Sarah Gordo in Southern California, one of the most fascinating ghost towns in American history

that he's been rehabilitating and turning into his own YouTube channel, which you can check out at Ghost Town Living. But Sam and Colby, and you follow them at youtube.com-slamand-colby. That's C-O-L-B-Y. You can check out a bunch of their awesome videos, get out of your comfort zone, make it count. But we really nerd out about the stoic idea of Memento Mori. I tell two stoic ghost stories, which I love the story of Xeno, of course, and his conversations with the dead. And then we talk about Athena Doris and his ghost story. Athena Doris is a stoic. I talk about in my book, Lives of the Stoics. The Stoics, you wouldn't think would be explorers of the supernatural, but of course they were. And I'll spoil the Xenostory conversations with the dead to the Stoics, was really just

another way to describe reading books. It's a way to talk to the wisest people who ever lived about their experiences in a world long since past. So my episode today with Sam and Colby is a great one. I think you're really going to enjoy it. You can follow them again at youtube.com slash Sam and Colby is a great one. I think you're really going to enjoy it. You can follow them again at youtube.com slash Sam and Colby. You can follow them on Twitter, at Sam and Colby, on Instagram. It's at Sam Goldbach and at Colby Brock.

Join the millions of followers that love what they do. But I think this is going to be a surprising conversation for you if you've never heard of them and a surprising conversation for you if you've never heard of them and a surprising conversation for you. If you have followed them, been one of the half a billion people or so has watched their videos because I think this shows a different side of them. We really get into some deep philosophical topics and I just had a great time talking with them. So thanks to Brent for the intro. Thanks to Sam and Colby for chatting with me and I hope you enjoy this episode at the Daily Still Podcast. You know, so one of the things I was thinking about

as I was getting ready to talk to you guys, I'm sure you saw it, but there's that study about like career aspirations, right? Like I was showing, I think like in China, the number one career aspiration right now is astronaut. And in the U. UK, it's to be a YouTuber. Yeah, it's totally insane. And I just wondered like as actual YouTubers, is that what you want a generation of people to aspire to do? And why do you think that is what everyone seems to want to do? Jesus. I mean, that is really scary, honestly, like thinking like, oh my god, like the youth just

wants to make crazy videos and, you know, live their life online, but it also makes sense because it's basically whatever you do or has been shoving down their throats for the last like five years, because it's basically whatever YouTube or has been shoving down their throats for the last like five years. Like YouTube and social media got so much bigger, so rapidly, and then they started talking about, you know, the actual career elements of it, and the money you can make and all that stuff.

So I think it makes total sense as to why. I just don't know if that's like the best thing for society, because usually it's like, oh yeah, you know, you have a bunch of different types of crews that are really interested in. But if everybody's just interested in being on the internet, then I don't know. My leads are not to be like a thing that anybody wanted to do back in the day. Like when we were in high school, even being on Vine, like we were getting made fun of in the hallways.

And now it seems like every kid is like, oh, I want to do this now because it's so like, it's such a new thing. And people have figured out you can make like a lot of money that I'm doing the YouTube videos and stuff like that too. So since it has so much freedom to where you can do whatever, it makes sense that like every kid is like, oh, yeah, I want to do this. makes sense that like every kid is like, oh yeah, I want to do this. Like, is a dream job. It is weird that how prevalent and how young the financial element comes in. Like, I remember a few years ago, my company, breastcheck, worked on this book for Glowzeau, you know, the YouTuber.

And I was, I was at this thing with my wife's family and I was talking to her, like her cousin or something. And this kid is maybe like 10. And I was telling, he was watching YouTube or something and I was saying that I was working on this book with Closel, who he'd not heard of. But he looked her up and he saw that she had like seven million subscribers or something

and he goes, she must make so much money, right? Like as a 10 year old, what he was thinking was not even that YouTube would be like creatively fulfilling or even that it would create like an interesting life or like have lifestyle freedom. All he was thinking was like it was an easy way to make lots of money. So it's weird. It's weird how like a generation of people, they're not even interested in like rock music because rock music is fun or rebellious. It's it'd be like you only wanted to be a rock star because it you would be rich. It seems money and fame. Yeah, it's sad because it used to not be like that at all. Like YouTube didn't even offer like a partner program for the first like what two, three years. And then even after that, it was, it was years and years and years until like people started openly talking about how much money they have. But with the way that it's just shown out

right now, it's like, yeah, I mean, like 10 year old can understand that this one person makes X amount of dollars for this many subscribers. Like it's so apparent that I think that's why people are like thinking about as a career as we're rather than a passion, which that line be like, be going from a career to a passion is kind of like what's sad about it, I think. Yeah, and I don't understand like when that switch happened

because yeah, kind of like Sam was saying, we first started social media. It was kind of like a known secret amongst like all creators not to really talk about like the personal finances of it. And yeah, like nobody in made videos being like, this is how much money I make. But I feel like it's such like a thing

to almost flex how much money you make now. And like there was like a weird switch like back and like maybe 2016, 2017, where like every YouTuber just started like, it was like a trend to buy like super like nice sports cars and huge houses and stuff like that. So of course, like kids started like catching on like, oh, these people actually make like a lot of money. It's strange too because like, I feel like if you do something well and you do it for a large amount of people,

of course, you should be paid extremely well for it. You should be paid as much as a multi-billion-dollar corporation, my Google or whatever is willing to pay for it. I have no problem. We just did a daily stoke email about this idea of like, if you can get the money, get the money, right? If you're a freelancer, you should charge with the market bears. If you've built a company that provides value for people, you should get paid every penny. Like I don't have a problem with Jeff Bezos being rich. He's made the world a better place in a lot of ways. But it's it's it's strange that it's strange too. Because like if you want to make a lot of money, I talk to authors about this all the time. Like, you can make money doing books, for instance, but it's

like the worst way to, it's the worst least predictable way to make money. So, so like, just like you can make a lot of money doing sports, of playing sports, but like 99% of people are gonna make zero dollars. So it's also this weird thing where like, if you're doing it, whatever it is that you're doing for the money, chances are you're doing the wrong, you're doing the right thing. You might as well just go get a job at Goldman Sachs.

Like then you would consistently make money with much less risk. So it's weird to that this artistic profession like yours becomes this thing that that people identify with is being like a get rich quick scheme when it's like the worst rich quick scheme. Yeah, extremely hard. It's like like Sam and I kind of got lucky in a way because we we got our popularity on vine and like we're able to like, you know, figure out a video that could pop off there. But with so many kids now trying to like get big and especially like with TikTok having kids every single day on a 4U page like blow up. Now it's like

you look into every single high school and like there's tons of students that all have over 10K followers went back then. That that was a crazy thing. So it's really interesting how much competition there is now. It's really hard to get to this bigger spot. Well, how old are you guys? 24. 24. And how old were you when it really started to happen for you?

1718? Yeah, 1718. Was that was that weird? Like was it? I mean, I imagine at some point at very young age you started making more money than your parents. You made more money than any of your peers. How did you adjust to that sort of sudden like lifestyle shift? it must have been strange. Definitely, I mean, again, that was, I guess, seven years ago, seven or eight years ago, it first started. And that's when it was like very new, like no one wanted to do it in our town. Like we grew up in Kansas and everyone kind of made fun of us. Even our closest friends were like, why are you doing this?

Like only like the top top, like TV people are going to make money. And you guys are just doing like YouTube and Vine with it. It was definitely like hard to convince people, but once people saw the vision and people were like, okay, well they're treating this like a business, this is like a serious thing. People started getting behind and it felt really good because we've been talking about this since you since the day we became friends, we always wanted to do it different. We wanted to not have to go through that nine to five,

not take that way less risky job. And so the fact that it did work out was a, I don't know, a big pat on the back, okay, you guys went the right direction. So, don't miss. Yeah, I remember, I remember my parents really didn't get it. Like, when I dropped out of college and I started doing this stuff, they really didn't get it. And there was this shift a few years later where their friends started getting it before they got it.

So like, their friends, or from their, their, their friends kids would read my stuff or see me somewhere. And then my parents started to get it, but it's kind of a weird feeling too, where you're like, but you're my parents, you're my friends, you're supposed to just support you. You're supposed, so in some ways I found too, like if you think being successful is gonna be satisfying,

it's gonna like prove these people wrong, it's kind of an empty feeling because then you realize, like, oh wait, I shouldn't have ever had to prove this to begin with. Yeah, I totally know what you mean. Like it was, the exacto what you just said, like I thought like everybody, like especially in our hometown and close friends would be like, wow, they did it. I'm so proud of them. Or like, that's so cool. And give us like a pat on the back, but instead it was like the opposite where people were more just like jealous and like couldn't figure out why we were successful

and we're trying to figure out ways to like tear us down as if like lift us up. Did, did, uh, like, when the, the sort of the fame starts and what's weird to me about YouTube is like, obviously you guys, you've millions of followers, you've done almost like, well, like a billion views of your stuff. But it seems like YouTubers have a very different relationship with their fans. Like, I remember several years ago,

I was doing this thing in Amsterdam with Casey Neistat. And like, I've been around famous people before, but I've never, and I've been around people who are more famous than him, but they had to put like, they had to put like barricades around the hotel. And he had to like sneak in and out of the back from, from like, you know, YouTube. Wow. And this was, this was like, you know, this sort of been, I don't know, like 2015 or 2016. So, so before, you know, some of it really hit for him, but there is this intense relationship that YouTube fans have with the people that they're watching on the screen.

That must be a disorienting experience for YouTube. Yeah, I mean, it's something that we're very grateful for to be able to connect with a lot of different people very personally. It's interesting, because like you were saying, a lot of celebrities, they have this power to them or this unreachable sort of perception, I guess, but with a creator, it's like, a lot of the fans are just like, oh yeah,

it's like, I could talk to them anytime I want, like on Twitter, like they're always creator, it's like a lot of the fans are just like, oh, yeah, it's like I can talk to them Many time I won like on Twitter like they're always on there and stuff like that. So it's a really strange Different sort of connection that we have with these people. Yeah, like actors. It's like they're playing a character They're putting on this like facade, but for us. It's and especially like Casey and I said who does it every single day? at one point, like you get to live with them. Basically, you get to understand their lives and their personalities, like so much more. So like, a fan to like a YouTube creator relationship is so much more type because it's so much more authentic, I think, than like a fan to an actor.

Or if you take a billion views times the average length of your video, how many tens of billions of hours that people have spent watching you in this very accessible format, right? As opposed to, as you said, seeing someone as a character or seeing Brad Pitt in a movie once every three years.

So even though someone might be more famous, the relationship is weird. Like, I'll notice that, like, even the difference, like, let's say someone comes up to me at an event I do. Somebody who listened to an audiobook, verse red, one of my books, like, it's like, oh, wait, I've been in your ear for 14 hours. As you fell asleep or you drove to work, it's a fundamentally different relationship than the

person who just sat down and read one of my books. Like, you know, I've read these books. Like, I kind of have a relationship with these people, but it'd be different if they whispered it into my ears. Yeah. How do you think it could be different, though? Do you think it's more powerful for people? Yeah, I think it's like, because I actually do my own audiobooks, which a lot of authors don't do. But so they, like, it just catches me off guard because they'll come up and be like, hi, I've listened to your audiobook 10 times. And I'll be like, oh, wow.

So, you know, the obstacle is the way is seven hours. That's 70 hours that you've heard me talk. I'm feeding you now for, I've known you for five seconds, whereas you have 70 hours of us talking. That's, that's a huge like disparity that can be, it creates real intimacy, but it's one directional intimacy. 100% as well as being there for certain moments and people's lives, especially when we were doing fine, our main audience and stuff was around 13 to 16. Now they've grown older with us. But imagine someone who's been watching our videos, for example,

for the entirety that we've been doing. That's seven years of their most notably changing years. Like, you know, go off from 16 to 20 or whatever like that. And we're the people that they're spending so much time with every single day, it's crazy. It's like, no wonder we have such a cool connection. Got a quick message from one of our sponsors here and then we'll get right back to the show. Stay tuned.

Raising kids can be one of the greatest rewards of a parent's life. But come on, someday, parenting is unbearable. I love my kid, but is a new parenting podcast from Wondry that shares of our freshly honest and insightful take on parenting. Hosted by myself, Megan Galey, Chris Garcia, and Kurt Brown-Oller, we will be your resident not-so-expert experts. Each week we'll share a parenting story that'll have you laughing, nodding, and thinking. Oh yeah, I have absolutely been there. We'll talk about what went right and wrong.

What would we do differently? And the next time you step on yet another stray Lego in the middle of the night, you'll feel less alone. So if you like to laugh with us as we talk about the hardest job in the world, listen to, I love my kid, but wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. Well, our mutual friend, Brent Underwood, who I've known, you know, for 10 years, and my son

is for my son's obsessed with Saragordo videos. And he's even watched all the videos of people going to Sarah Gorda, except for yours, because yours he finds too scary. But like, he's met Brent, like dozens of times, right? But obviously before the pandemic. But now Brent exists to him as this, like Brent will call me and he'll like freak out because this person from the computer is like speaking to his dad on the phone. It's like this surreal like change in our relationship with this, you know, my business partner suddenly becomes

this like celebrity to my kid. But I think, you know, he's four years old watching these videos. And I think people have picked up this whole culture from you got like, you'll hear kids say things like, you know, like just tell me below in the comments or, you know, like, click like to subscribe. You know, like they don't, I think I think it really is the formative period in the audience's lives that has so ingrained you guys in a generation. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. No, Brent,

Brent amazed us with how fast and how quickly he was able to turn until like this medium ogle. Oh, he blew up, but I think that's a good example too. I think, and it's true with you guys, and it's something that I think is, you know, when everyone's like, hey, I want to be a YouTuber or whatever. It's really hard. I mean, obviously there's an element of luck in it, but like, I mean, Brent specifically has been, you know, training and marketing is work. I mean, Brent and I've worked together for 10 years. He, that's an overnight success

that took 10 years, right? There's a reason his stuff worked. And you guys, you were successful in one medium for a long time before you transitioned over to this other medium where you blew up. I think people, like, people look at, when a master does something well, they make it look easy. And so I think one of the things with whether it's podcasts or writing or books or YouTube or whatever it is, people see it and they go, oh, of course I could do that, which comes from either a naive place or very egotistical place. Which is really scary because if so many people are trying to use that as their career path

and there is still only the 1% that makes money. And then it's like the one of 1% that's shoving it down everybody else's throat saying you should try it. Like it's like a lot of one percent that's shoving it down. Everybody else is through saying you should try it. Like it's like a lot of people are going after this social media thing went in reality. Like it doesn't make money for like a lot of people. And that's why whenever anyone always asks

because you know a lot of people will be like, okay, so I really want to start YouTube or I really want to start social media. Like what's your one piece of advice? I always say do it for the passion, because if you try to go into it just for the money, it's obviously that's a very difficult thing to do. But...

Well, and you have to actually like it. I mean, you're still spending your life doing it. So if you don't like it, how are you gonna put up with however many years of struggle or difficulty that go into it? You know what I mean? Like I started writing online in 2006 and I got my first check for writing.

The first dollar I ever got paid for writing in December 2011. So it was a long, fucking time of like free work before it even remotely began to pay off. It's entrepreneurship for you. Now you go to work for years and years and years and years before you see the results. Totally, totally. And let me ask you this, like if you were talking to a kid or a young person who wanted to sort of be a creator, would you recommend that they start on YouTube or is that too competitive and you might tell them to find some new way in? And all really depends because you can blow up like anybody can blow up on in different platform, obviously. But like, I would recommend right now that like

TikTok is probably the easiest, just because of the algorithm. Like I was saying earlier, you can be anybody make just like a video and it will pop off like and put be put on the for you page back like in the vindays is like what we call them. You have to like get on this like comedy page and usually like the main creators that were already popular would just constantly hog the comedy page. I'm so hard for new creators pop up, but with TikTok, it's like the opposite. It's like everybody gets a shot. So honestly, if you are able to find like a stick on TikTok and you just work consistent and worked hard and you truly love doing what you like we're doing. Then I think that's probably the best way to pop off. YouTube video is way harder now. I feel like every single year, YouTube content steps up like five notches

to where you have to include different shots in order to keep up with everybody else. That's the thing. 10 years ago, when it first started, you could just sit down and answer three questions on a video and get to million views. But now it's like you have to have this cinematic movie, hour long documentary, to get views. Which I was so surprised, like, again,

Brent's a great example. He went super hard at YouTube and TikTok, but he didn't start, like, at the ground level of content creation. He learned so quickly and just based off like all the talk creators on how to form his videos and he's already obviously been in marketing and stuff like that. So I was able to study how, talk about himself to that point. And now he's, yeah, one year later, making hour long, like documentaries with 20 different

angles and storyline and all this history. It's like, it's a lot. And that is why there's so much success. But it's hard for the average person to do that. But cool. We use that word, stick, and you used it somewhat derisively. I actually think that's like the most basic decision you have to make as a creator, whatever you do, is which is like, I think the nicer way to say it was like, you have to pick a lane,

you have to do something different. I think so many people go like, oh Sam and Colby are making ghost videos, so that's what I should do. And it's like, you're already dominating that space. Yeah. It's super competitive. You have to, I see this was stoicism, people like, you're already dominating that space. Yeah. Super competitive. You have to, I see this with stoicism, people are like, oh, Ryan's books are selling. So I'm gonna write books about stoicism. And first off, they don't actually take the time

to learn why my stuff works. And they can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that I'm already the main person in that space. I'm not saying that I'm gonna push them out or there's not room. I'm not saying that I'm going to push them out of there's not room. I'm just saying that there's one of my favorite books. I think I have it up here is a blue ocean strategy. And essentially the premise is a red ocean is where there's competition. You want to go creatively, artistically, business-wise.

You always want to go to the blue ocean where there aren't people doing what you're doing and then you have a monopoly over that space. Yeah, well I shoot yourself in the foot by going towards the base competition in the space. Totally. And that's what scares me is like I wonder if there will ever be like a time where it's like, everything's been done, you know?

Like as YouTube so new that like, that eventually people will be like, oh, scary stuff, like I'm gonna watch this channel. Like, oh, like, whatever, whatever it is, like somebody's gonna be doing it already. I don't think so. I mean, it's funny, I have this bookstore here in Austin, Texas and like, you know, we have books that are 2,000 years old

that people still buy every day. And then there's also like new books that have just come out. And so I think there's an infinite market. It's just to make a living as a creative or as a business, you have to carve out space that's yours first. And the easiest way to do that is not to go head to head with like whatever the Michael Jordan of your spaces. Like that's suicide.

True, yeah, and the good point is like you could do things differently too. So it's like if somebody has like is dominating like the scary space, like you can just go in there and just like do it your way. Do the opposite. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, just having your own unique spin on certain things, because like, you know, I think of the big reason why people like, really love like your stoicism books is like, hey, yes, you're talking about something that's ancient, but you're putting a modern twist on it. For us, it's like, hey, like we're doing, we're like visiting these like abandoned places or like these haunted places that are like

Hundreds of years old. No one really wants to go to school and learn about like history stuff What a quote from like a you know 16 year old perspective, but we go in there with this like I'm scared of everything What's joke around with our friends? Let's basically act like it's a fun school field trip. And that new fresh way to ingest the information is like, okay, cool. Well, that's different than everybody else's doing. Well, let's talk about that because I'm fascinated with what you do or people who are into roller coasters or whatever.

So people are like, hey, you wanna go skydiving or I could ask to do stuff? And my answer is always like, hey, you want to go skydiving? Or I could ask to do stuff. And my answer is always like, I don't enjoy being terrified. Why would I see that experience out? So what is it in you guys? What broke in your brains that you enjoy being scared? Because I don't get it at all.

I've ever since like, I was just like a really little kid. I always just told myself that like you grow the most as a person mentally like when you're like the most uncomfortable. Okay. And so like honestly sometimes we'll we'll have ideas on the the same record with channel where I'm like I don't want to do that. Like there's no part of me that wants to flip out of a playing backwards and like fall to my death like but at same time, we do it for two reasons. It's like one contents there and like it's funny to like capture genuine reactions and verify people.

And then two, just like it's a it's a mental like growing thing where it's like for me, I just like I just think I can like I get more confidence after being able to do some of those like crazy things. But is it the adrenaline you like the adrenaline of the experience? Is that what's enjoyable about it? The adrenaline is a part of it, but like the main thing is the challenge of like, I personally am terrified of doing this. And since I did it, like, I can do anything sort of a thing.

It's like a mental challenge with yourself. Yeah, ever since we became friends, like one of the main reasons why we've stayed friends and so is because we keep doing challenges together. And it's just so fulfilling to have that shared experience. Yeah, you can have a shared experience of going on a walk or whatever like that. But when you're like life is in danger or like you like are testing the thoughts

that you like a religious thought or like, Oh, our demons real. And it's like, it proves you wrong. And you don't know what's about to happen. Like that's something that you will forever have a connection with with those like people that you're with and or your audience. Like when it's captured on camera, the first time we ever skydived, or the first time we ever like captured like a ghost talking to us, those are moments that we will never have a second time. So it's really, really interesting to share that with the people that are there and have it on camera to be like, oh my god, he really went through it.

I do experience that when you do endurance sports. I think to be like, oh my God, like, you know, he really went through it. I do experience that like, when you do endurance sports, I think people think like, oh, you must be in good shape. That's how you're able to do this thing. But really, I think what you find is that the body can do just about anything. It's that the mind wants it to stop, right?

And so what you practice, whether it's running or swimming or biking, is cultivating the real muscle of like, my body wants to quit, but I'm going to will my mind to push through and keep going. Is that what these like terrifying experience, whether it's sleeping in a haunted castle or we're improving yourself wrong? 100%. It's like, if the world tells me I can't do something, that's exactly why I wanna do it. Yeah. It's just fun, like we are kinda just a journal in Jokey,

like people as well, where we just enjoy that stuff. But do you find that that muscle is transferable? So I'll give you an example. So when I'm running, I'm constantly wrestling with this, my body wants to quit. My mind pushes through. Or that my mind tell, really what it is, is your mind is telling you that your body has to quit, but actually the body has more in the tank than you think.

And so you have to be able to push through that. But so then, like, let's say I'm working on a book project and it's really hard and I'm thinking, I'm gonna quit. This isn't gonna work. This isn't worth it. I get to push through, or even in the pandemic, like, hey, how much longer can I put up with this?

It's like actually longer than I think I can. And I have experience and muscle memory about pushing through that resistance. Do you find that your ability to sort of push through fear is transferable from these challenges to other parts of your life? Yeah, I mean, going back to like how we became friends, it's like we took on challenge, effort, challenge,

effort, challenge, and it's starting at the beginning, like one of our first challenges together was trying to be able to talk to girls. We were like extremely shy kids, and we're like, you know, cried in front of them and stuff like, literally bottom and level. And it took us months to even get like a first phone number out of them all. And so like, once we started doing that and then like our next challenge, you know, be like, hey, can we like, you know, have the confidence to sing on lunch tables?

Like, at a public place. And like, that would take us like, you know, have the confidence to sing on lunch tables like at a public place. And like that would take us like maybe like a couple weeks. And then it was just like because because we knew that like these challenges were one, you know, like possible if we work together, but two very rewarding because we did do them together. It was like really cool. So when we take that to business, it's like, yeah, it's like, I also like I'm a runner and like I like love like that endurance and like pushing myself

just a little further, like one mile further today, like a little faster. And that is also what like really motivates us in like the YouTube world. So we always are like, okay, cool. Like we got to let's say this many views this month. Like we always are like, okay, cool. Like we got to, let's say, this many views this month. Like we'll sit there in brainstorm. How is it possible to

double that right now? Right. It's crazy. Like and because I think it's because we've chained our mind ever since like seven, eight years ago, just to constantly want like more and like keep that like challenge. But yeah, it's been an all walks of life like in confidence and like keep that like challenge. But yeah, it's been an all walks of life like in confidence and like talking to people and like business and YouTube like everything. Got a quick message from one of our sponsors here and then we'll get right back to the show. Stay tuned. Yes, Seneca talks about he says, you know, the fighter that's never been

bloody or knocked down is at a disadvantage because they don't know what they're capable of, right? Like the Stokes talk about a person who's never been through adversity is fragile because they're not aware, they don't have the confidence in their own capacity. And so I've got to imagine, as you guys seek out and sort of live this kind of deliberately challenging life,

but it gives you at least some sense of like your ability to get through stuff. Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, a great example of that scuba diving this year. We went like dive down to a hundred feet like depths and like went through a shipwreck. And we had no idea how to scuba dive like we ended up getting our advanced license in like five days. It usually takes like somebody like two months. But yeah, we just went hard with it and was terrifying experience, but super fun at the same time. And after like completing that, like we both felt like we could just do anything. Like it really calms your anxiety and like nerves for other things in the future, like completing a hard task.

Is the experience mostly rewarding after it's over? That would say so, yeah. Like after you've done it, you're like, I did that, that's wonderful. Yeah. As opposed to like, oh, I'm learning so much while I'm terrified 100 feet underwater. I mean, I need to pinch off underwater. I mean, it depends on the activity.

Yeah, it depends, but doing it is always fun because it's, you know, the adrenaline of it and it's like super exciting. But yeah, usually afterwards, it's like, that's when I reflect. I'm just like, hell, yeah. Why think about that with the pandemic, right? Like, you know, everyone who's listening to this or is here, like, has now been through probably the most challenging events of the last 70 years, right? Like an event of historical proportions. Like, if you're not aware, if you were not under the impression

that you could survive difficult circumstances, you now have some evidence that at the very least, you know, no matter how bad you took it, no matter how rough it was, no matter what mistakes you made, you did make it. I'm not saying that the people who didn't survive that it's their fault in their week. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that all of us now should emerge from the events of the last 12 months with some stronger belief,

some stronger confidence in our ability to endure things that if you had asked younger you in February of 2020, like, hey, do you think you could survive a year of lockdowns, less traveling, your business would be severely impacted, you'd see your family less. You know, could you take all these things off the table? Could you absorb these blows?

I think almost all of us, myself included, would have been like, no fucking way. That's unsurvivable. And yet, here we are. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like, that's like so important to people like even though it sucks that it happened I think it's gonna be like really good for like the the mental You know strength of this generation of people is just like going on

Now like you said as you can transfer that mentality to other challenges It's like yeah, maybe now it's not like time constraint, but it's something else. And so like now, like, you're like, oh, well, you know, if they were to like think of it like that, and I know, it's hard to think of the pandemic as a good thing. But if they were able to think of that, that's just like a challenge that they have became, then, you know, you can transfer that to like another set of problems, become like a strong person. Yeah, it's funny. We've been told, I guess I'm millennial in your Gen Z

technically, right? We've been told that our generations are so fragile. And it's like, the videos of people freaking out at supermarkets screaming about masks, like none of them are our age. They're all our parents. It's true. Yeah, that's right.

We're all fragile. So what is this idea of making it count me into you guys? I know you talk about that in some of your videos. It seems like it's kind of a philosophy for you. Yeah. So that's like, I don't know, the root or the root of everything we really do is that we have like this inherent fear of growing older. We like are horrified of age and like, you know, losing this one life we have. And so we were like doing social

media, doing all this like haunted stuff, doing everything we thought we were supposed to be doing for the last couple of years. And then during the pandemic, we really got to sit back. I broke my back. We couldn't travel obviously because of everything like that. So everything was on hold for like six months. We had a lot of conversations of what do we truly want to do with our lives? Because we're about to, you know, this year we're both returning 25.

And that is like a big marker for us as like, okay, you know, we are now on the older spectrum of YouTubers. You're a quarter of the way through life. Yeah, a quarter there. It's like, oh God, okay, like that to us is scary because like we've never really had to face that. Like we, everyone else says, oh, we look so young. So now what we're trying to say is, okay,

well, instead of doing what we think we're supposed to do, why don't we just do everything that we want to do and make like every second count? Because let's say like we do only have this one life and we are horrified of it ticking away, then the best way to combat that is to make these seconds count. And I feel like a lot of people waste a lot of time. Yeah, we really like had this realization about living in the moment as well.

And like just over time, like especially this last year, realizing that like the only experience that we're all having is like right now. And like, like, it doesn't really help at all to live in your anxiety of like the future, like, dwell in like the past and stuff like that when you can't change like other of those things. So like making every second count in that aspect is like something that we really wanted to take the heart like during this year before we're 25 being like, yeah, no, like we got to do things now. It's like now or never sort of thing. No, I mean, the sooner you realize that the better, right? How many people sort of realize that life is short after they've already wasted so much of their life, right?

But we talk about this, you know, like somebody gets cancer and they go, you know, that's when I realized I was gonna die. And it's like, you knew from birth, you were gonna die. It's like, it's not like this is up for debate, right? Like every person that's ever born, it knows they're gonna die, but then we deny that fact.

I'm gonna send you guys one of these momentum worry things that I do for day or so. Do you know that expression? Or do you have one? Appreciate it. Amazing. But to me, what I love about momentum worry, I mean, on the back, Marcus says,

you could leave life right now, let that determine what you do and say and think. I think about that. But I actually really love Seneca. Seneca says, he says, it's wrong to think of death in the future. So like you go like, okay, you know, I'm going to die at 100. So I have how much life do I have left, right? That you're moving towards death. He says like, no, the time that passes belongs to death. So the way to think about it is that you guys have already died a quarter of your life, right? Like you have died 25 years. This is the time that passes belongs to death.

This is we're dying every day, every minute. And I think what do you think about it that way that you're, that everything you spend time on, you're paying for with life is a fundamentally different way to go through the world. Because then when someone tries to guilt you into doing something that doesn't need to be done, or as you said, when you're wasting time being anxious about something,

dreading something that's happening, or even just think during the pandemic, like when this first happened, the people are like, oh, two weeks, I'll wait it out. And then like, oh, life's gonna go back to normal in June. I'll just wait until June. And it's like, well, here we are 13 months later. And you're still waiting it out.

This could have been the best year of your life. And for me, in a lot of ways, it was one of the best years of my life, not in the way that I thought, but in terms of the amount of time that I spent with my life, not in the way that I thought, but in terms of the amount of time that I spent with my kids, in terms of the writing that I got done. You know, I didn't travel to Finland like I was supposed to, but I did go on a road trip across the United States. Like, you know, you have to adjust and be flexible, but you really can live every minute

if you choose to. Definitely. Perception. Perception. I think it's really, really interesting to like just think of the fact that you die as a good thing because I've been talking about this a lot this last year because death has been such like in the forefront. It's literally floating in the air. You can catch it at any moment.

Exactly. And like I take that with like a great assault and but because that reason, the the fact that we die is what makes everything meaningful. It's like the the second today or like the relationship I make tomorrow or the occurrence that I have next week is only meaningful because I die. I could have if I was immortal, I could do that a million times. It wouldn't mean as much. Like our conversation right now wouldn't mean as much as we've are. is only meaningful because I die. If I was immortal, I could do that a million times. And it wouldn't mean as much. Our conversation right now wouldn't mean as much, but we are having this in the limited time that we have.

And now we are one hour, I guess, closer to death, which means that it's valuable. These conversations, these relationships, these experiences are valuable because we have that limited time to offer. Yeah, it's interesting though, I think sometimes people miss the idea of momentum more. So momentum more is not like, you're going to die, everything's meaningless, like go have an orgy or go try heroin, right?

It's not, to me, it's not like nothing matters. It, anarchy. It's that you, because it's not for sure that the world is going to end tomorrow, right? Like if the world was going to end tomorrow, if you for sure knew everything was being wiped off the planet, that would sort of throw everything into a state of flux. For the still, I think it's that life could end tomorrow. So you don't know, but it could.

So how do you live in a way that leaves no regrets, but also doesn't create regrets when you happen to be alive tomorrow? So it's really, I think just about, as you said, making every minute count. So I think about it's like, this could be the last email that I sent. It's not life is meaningless,

so I'm not gonna send the email. It's, I'm just gonna, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna actually be here as I write the email or have this conversation with you or even like eating a sandwich. This could be the last sandwich I eat. I'm not gonna rush through it

to get to the other side because the other side could be eat. I'm not going to rush through it to get to the other side because the other side could be death. I'm going to actually show up even if it's something is, but not all is eating a sandwich. I love that. Or just don't let yourself get caught up in the stupid moments or the stupid arguments or getting cut off a traffic. This last year, I feel like it's been one of the most peaceful Like years in my life because like that's when I got into like stoicism and like I really really like took that to hard I was like, yo if you're gonna die sometime and like it could be tomorrow Then why care what other people think or like why get like so caught up and replaying these arguments in your mind fire

You know, actually, like everybody does that. But nothing really matters sort of a thing. It's like, are you really upset about that person from two years ago that did whatever? Do you find that, that as you think about this and as you've gone through this last year, I think one of the things Memento Mori does for me is like, I just care what other people are doing less. Like I compare myself to them less. I try to impress them less.

I get less angry with them. I just like, I got my own shit to worry about. And I'm gonna be heads down on that. And I feel like this year has been shown me the results of what happens when you're like, I'm gonna go heads down on my stuff. Definitely. Yeah, that is 100% like how it's affected me.

It's like moment to mori, I'm like, okay, you know, if someone's trying to tear me down, give way, like less an opinion to that or like care about all that stuff, because hey, you know, you've only got a certain amount of time to do your own stuff, like why waste it, like being mad about other people's opinions. Speaking of which, YouTube commenters,

they're the worst of all the types of commenters, right? Is that, is that wrong? They're all really bad, but yeah, sure. Most of it. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like you, you, you, you pour yourself into doing something and you see, you see what someone says and like,

to me, part of what Memento Mori does for me is I go, like, not only do I not need to be like upset by this, this person's having a bad time. It must suck to be this person to leave this remark. This is how they chose to, not only did they watch the video or all the videos of this person me that they supposedly really, really don't like, which is a bad use of our financial time. But then, then they're so angry about it that clearly this rage consumes large portions of their waking existence and they're filled with bitterness and dissatisfaction about a person who they've never met and never will

meet. Yeah, I will never understand how there's anybody that takes the time to like watch a full video and then be like, I need, I need to say something about this. Fuck this video. I don't get it. It doesn't make sense to me. Well, let's talk about two still ghost stories before we wrap up.

And I know I told this, the first one of these to you guys, which is the story of Athena Doris, who's actually the advisor to the emperor Octavian, Julius Caesar's heir to the head of the Roman Empire. But for people who don't know the story, he rents this mansion and the mansion, know the story. He rents this mansion and the mansion, it sounds like one of the ones you guys would rent in one of your videos, this is a notoriously haunted mansion that's probably why he gets it for cheap. And he's

sitting down, writing his philosophy and low and behold, this sort of ghost comes in and it's rattling these chains, making this big ruckus in it approaches him, and it probably comes in trying to scare him. And instead, a Theodore just looks at him and goes, one minute, and he finishes writing what he's supposed to be working on, then he gets up, and he follows the ghost out into this courtyard

and the ghost is making all its horrible ghost noises and screaming and agony and rattling these chains. And then finally, the ghost stops. And Athena Doris realizes that the ghost is communicating with him. And so he marks the spot, he goes to bed, he comes back the next morning with a crew of workman, and they dig up the spot. And whether they find a pile of bones, which at the end of Doris orders to be given a full, you know, sort of a Roman funeral and the ghost is never seen again. The moral being, the ghost was just wanted, trying to communicate it needed something and he's the only one that listen. But to me, whether the ghost story is sure or not, I'll leave to the viewer. But what I love about the story is that, first off,

he's so disciplined and so fearless that a ghost appears. And he says, I need to finish what I'm working on first. And he asks me to hang on a minute. But then the second part of it, to me, the real essence of the story is, instead of being intimidated or driven crazy by this supernatural appearance, he says like, this is a clue, let's investigate.

Like, let's see what's actually behind that. And so to me that embodied so many of the awesome sort of virtues of Stoicism, whether the story is true or not. Yeah, Honevreson, I love that. That's also like one reason why we got into like the scary stuff is as opposed to like only being scared of ghosts. Yeah, cool, let it all scream and cry and run around in our videos. But a huge part of it is like proving ourselves wrong and saying like what

it could teach us. Like a large like part of the story of why we're into, like, ghost stuff is, because we weren't really believers in ghosts or anything like that. And so we love to go about these things and, like, have these experiences because of what it can teach us. Yeah, like, cool. Like, on video, we might be like, oh my god, like, this is crazy. But, like, trust us, us, it like affects us. And how we've made multiple videos on how much it's affected, like our religious like perspectives

or what we believe in and what like it could be out there. And you know, our perspective has changed a ton because of these like ghost stories. And I think that's like really cool. You don't have to just be scared of it. He could like, use as a good thing. Got a quick message from one of our sponsors here and then we'll get right back to the show. Stay tuned. And do you find most of the time there is a pretty straightforward explanation

for what's happening? So let's say less complicated than a ghost just trying to, you know, get his bone spirit but that it's like, the scary thing is act like, as an example, in Marfa, there's the supposedly these mysterious lights, and they don't know if it's from, you know, the rumors, they're from aliens or whatever. They're actually just headlights from the freeway that you can see over the, you know, the long.

But the point is, I got to imagine a good portion of the time. You guys get out, you look at these things you explore, and there's a pretty straightforward explanation for the thing that is so scary to so many people. Usually, yeah, usually. It depends obviously on the place like we've experienced crazy things where like we try everything that we can to debunk the situation and figure out what that was. And then there's just times where it's like obviously, oh, that noise was made by that. Like it's super, it just depends on where you go. And I imagine it takes some discipline to decide

like, I'm not going to be scared by this. I'm going to explore it and I'm going to get to the bottom of it. Yeah, it's super interesting because that's like we were scared at first. And I think that's like what was funny to like a lot of our viewers is it was like very genuine that like we didn't know how to, you know, handle these like haunted situations. But over time, like our viewers were able to see that like we kind of got jaded to the whole concept of being scared by ghosts. So there would be a crazy noise that we'd capture on camera. And like our roommates would be like,

guys, let's get out of here and say when I would be like, no, let's like run towards it. Like we want to figure it out. It's almost crazy because like the more like on like, I don't know, the more real it was, the more like we were calm about it, almost. It was like, when there was a definite noise, that was super scary, yeah, frightened us,

but then immediately we were like, okay, that's probably something else. Let's make a joke out of it or laugh with our friends. But when it was real, you could tell like, oh my gosh, like we my COVID, I would become quiet. Okay, I was figure this out. It's like work together and let's like experience this, which is funny because all my life and if I ever thought like, oh, one day I'll have a true ghost experience, I feel like I'd be like horrified. But in reality, when it like really came down to like, you know, our top three

or five ghost experiences, almost each one of those times, we were like calm. Yeah, I think life is like that, right? Like you cut your finger and you're like, ah, it hurts so bad, like ah. And you're like a big whistle about it. And then times in my life where I've really hurt myself, I fell off a bike and I shouted my elbow

or you get in bad accidents, your body's just like, this is serious, you can handle it, you call them way down. You know, like, you know, like on the, on the magnitude of pain, you'd think if you freaked out over a paper cut, you would just faint and like die from this, you know, shatter bone, or, you know,

like, you've got a gash across your face, your, your bones sticking out of your arm. And suddenly, when it's serious, you're like, this is what I got to do. And I feel like that's because your body knows like, this is too serious to fuck around, you know? And I think there's a part of us where our real sort of And I think there's a part of us where our real sort of train and kicks in and we go like, this is too serious to mess around. You don't have the luxury of being emotional. You don't have the luxury of freaking out. Like, you got to figure out what's going on here and solve this problem. And it's only when the stakes are really low that we can indulge, you know, our unskilled side. Exactly.

Definitely. I wonder, like, going back to the Momentum Ori, I wonder if you could just keep that in mind too. Thank you. If you're about to, like, a diet, like a painful death, it's like, maybe your body's just kind of like in this. All right, it's time to die mode, not like a scary thing. When in meditations, you know,

so Marcus really, we understand has like an extremely bad stomach ailment. We don't know what it is, but there's some evidence that he was like prescribed opium for it. It was so serious, right? So he basically has like lifelong chronic pain as we would call it now. And he says to himself in meditations, he goes, look, either this pain will go away, or you will go away, right?

He's basically saying like, this situation is gonna resolve itself. Either you're gonna get better, or you're gonna die, and then you won't have to worry about the pain anymore either, right? And so sometimes I think about that. It's like, even if you're just like, you're just like stuck in bed

with the worst food poisoning in the world, and it feels like you're gonna die. You're like, look,'re just like stuck in bed with the worst food poisoning in the world. And it feels like you're going to die. You're like, look, I'm going to get this all out of my stomach in the next 24 hours. It's not going to be fun, but it's definitely going to resolve itself. Or it's something much more serious than I comprehend. And that will also resolve itself as well, not how I wanted to resolve itself. But the point is you don't have to, you don't have to torture yourself with the question of, is this going to go on forever? Because there is an

end. That's a good point. There's peace and like ending, I guess. Yes. Memento Mori is the ultimate problem solver. Yeah, no, for all the runners out there, it's like that's like what I always think. It's like, okay, if I'm feeling really crappy right now in one hour from now, I'm going to be chilling in bed, just hanging out. So I can do this for another five minutes. This run will end eventually, or my body will quit on me. And you sort of go like one of those two things will take care of itself. So so last stout ghost story this one's I love this one the most. So Zeno is the founder of stosism. Zeno is told as a young man he visits the Oracle at Delphi, you know basically this sort of medium or or profit that the Greeks would go to get sort of

this sort of medium or profit that Greeks would go to get sort of their future predicted from. And she says, Zeno, you will become wise when you begin to have conform—she says, Zeno, you will become wise when you begin to have conversations with the dead. And he goes, you know, what could that possibly mean? Am I supposed to talk to ghosts, right? Am I going to be visited by a God? You know, he doesn't know what this means. And it's not until many years later, he loses everything in a shipwreck. He washes up on shore and Athens. And he walks into a bookstore. And he sees the owner of the bookstore reading the works of Socrates aloud. And that's when it hits Zeno. Conversations with the dead means books. Socrates has been dead for years. And here it is speaking like it's alive again. And so to me obviously in your guys' videos you go out and you visit these crazy places and you

try to commune and speak with the dead. But what I think is interesting is that like, you know, you pick up any book from any dead person and you can have a conversation with Marcus Arelius as if he's alive speaking to you from the grave. I think that's something so magical, but also kind of haunting and like easily overlooked when we think about what a book is. like easily overlooked when we think about what a book is. Yeah, 100%. We're actually just talking about this like last week, COVID-19, but what's really weird is because everything is so documented, like up until this point, yeah,

like books are the main reason why we can like hear and like the thoughts of like the deceased. But from now on, all of our videos, like in a hundred years, people are gonna be able to watch a Samukovie YouTube video, which is very strange because next generation generation generation will be able to watch this generation and who will all be dead.

But we all have these happy, go lucky videos and it's so much more documented. For me like I don't even have like one real video of my dad like as a kid. But like my kids are going to have hundreds. So it's such a weird phenomenon going forward thinking that like everything is going to be the same. Like we're going gonna be locked as kids forever on the internet. And I just don't know how that's gonna affect the future. But isn't it strange though that like people will go, oh, I wish I could talk to, you know, Abraham Lincoln or something, right?

Like people go, if you could have anyone to dinner, you know, living or dead, who would you invite? And to go, Jesus or Socrates or, you know, they picked these figures and it's like, you know, you could go have like a seven hour conversation with Abraham Lee right now. Like he wrote thousands of words in his lifetime.

And we just refuse, the vast majority of people just refuse to have that conversation. And Tolstoy famously says like, I don't understand people who refuse to commune with the wisest people who ever lived. And that, because that's what reading is, it's a conversation with the debt. The conversation.

Make me want to read more, I'm like, oh, shit. Well, no, and I think, I think, generationally, obviously, it's easy to turn on a YouTube video. It takes some work to read, I think, generationally, obviously, it's easy to turn on a YouTube video. It takes some work to read, you know, or to seek out something older of value. And I think I do hope that people continue to sort of invest in that. And that's what I love about you guys as readers. You're both big readers. But to go like, hey, I'm going to go learn from people who lived a long time ago. To

me, this is, this Senaqa says, you know, by studying philosophy, we annex all the ages of the past into our own. You know, in reading, we get to live in ancient Greece or Rome or ancient China or ancient, you know, medieval Europe. Like, it's pretty incredible. It is crazy how people think that there isn't an answer to things. It's like history has repeated itself time and time again and there's a million extremely smart people have already written about your problem that you can figure out the answer to it, but people don't want to do that. And it's like literally like every answer to life there ever is is probably out there on a book right now, but people don't want to put in the work to like go and figure it out.

Yeah, General Mattis is a big fan of Stosis. I'm talks about this in his book, Call Sign Chaos, which is very good. He says, he says like, people have been fighting in wars for 5,000 years. He's like, how would you not go read what they went through? Why would you learn by trial and error when you could read about the people that went before you? And he talks about, you know, when America invades Iraq and Afghanistan, he's like, I've read Alexander the Great because he fought in the same places.

Like it's not like people haven't done this before. They've been in this exact spot and made a lot of the same mistakes, but if you're not careful, you will make right now. Yeah. It's interesting to think about. And then like Sam was saying, 100, 200, 500 years down the line, people are going to look back at like these times and watch videos about it and have conversations with like people

with videos. It's crazy. You're watching your TikToks. Oh, Jesus. Oh, God. Renegade. Renegade. That's the thing that A.J.M wasn't doing that.

This was amazing guys. Hopefully we can see each other in person one of these days and I love the stuff and we'll talk soon. Sounds good. Hey, thank you so much. It's been awesome. Appreciate it, man. That was fun. Yeah, of course.

Thanks so much for listening. If you could leave a review for the podcast, we'd really appreciate it. The reviews make a difference, and of course, every nice review from a nice person helps balance out. The crazy people who get triggered and angry anytime we say something they disagree with.

So if you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it and I'll see you next episode. Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Daily Stoke early and ad free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free on Amazon Music, download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple podcasts.