The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Good Follow - Lisa Leslie Joins The Show, Final Four is set + The Transfer Portal & Dawn Staley’s Coaching Ability

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

This week on Good Follow: Ros & Logan preview UConn vs UCLA and South Carolina vs Texas in the Final Four. Then, Ros sits down with 2x WNBA Champion and Hall of Famer Lisa Leslie to break down March Madness, discuss Juju’s injury, the WNBA’s CBA battle, and her bond with Dawn Staley. Later, Ros and Logan decide whether the transfer portal and how women’s basketball is covered is madness or not in “This is Madness.” Finally, Ros shares her March Madness pick of the week presented by DraftKings. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, flights on Air Canada. How about Prague? Ooh, Paris. Those gardens. Gardens. Um, Amsterdam. Tulip Festival. I see your festival and raise you a carnival in Venice. Or Bermuda has carnaval. Ooh, colorful. You want colorful. Thailand. Lantern Festival. Boom. Book it. Um, how did we get to Thailand from Prague?

Oh, right. Prague. Oh, boy. Choose from a world of destinations, if you can. Air Canada, nice travels. Hey, what's up, y'all? Welcome to Good Follow, presented by DraftKings. I'm Roz Gold on Wooday. And that right there, that's my girl Logan Hackett. Logan, how are you doing? I'm great. How are you?

Girl, I'm so excited. There's so much happening in basketball. March Madness, it's now we are in the April part of it. We are heading to the Final Four. I'm heading to Tampa. I'm so excited. You know, I like warm weather. Yes, absolutely. With using merch fund is actually last night falling asleep Ryan Rucos. You bet was just playing him. You you not to be not you being haunted by the voice of Ryan Rucco. You're in your kitchen.

You bet. Yes. Oh my God. Where are you? Where are you? Ryan Rucco? I'm gonna telluko? I'm gonna tell him that. No, but what's up to all of you? I know everyone watching at home. We've got a great show for you. Let me take you through the rundown today. And then

there were four. We are definitely breaking down the woman's final four. And you know, we've been talking about March Madness, but the madness is happening in the transfer portal. Y'all is absolutely insane so we are talking about that transfer portal and what's going on there. We also have an exclusive interview with Hall of Famer Lisa Leslie joins the show and the interview is awesome she talks about her relationship with Dawn Staley, the WNBA's negotiations of the CBA, we reflect on Unrivaled, all the things. I mean, we're even talking about taste testing oxtails, all the things. So, really cool to catch up

with one of the goats. And y'all, as always, we love y'all so much. We appreciate you for rocking with us, and please do not forget to subscribe, comment, follow all the socials, literally click every button you can, because new episodes drop every Wednesday, and we want y'all to be the first on it. Alrighty, well the Final Four is officially set and we have Yukon, South Carolina, UCLA and Texas. So I want to start with UCLA, who booked their first ever trip to the Final Four after a pretty crazy Elite 8 game against LSU and props

to Kim Mulkey, because she had a game plan and she stuck to it by getting Lauren Betts in early foul trouble and I think Lauren was out for what a quarter a little bit more than that and I don't think anyone expected the rest of the team to play around her and step up. Tamiya Gardner had 15 points, Gabby Hawkins 18 points with eight rebounds shooting four of five from three and they really proved themselves in this game. So Roz, how did you see UCLA perform without bets and what's your take on that? I was impressed by it because come March Madness, come the tournament, come, hey,

we're one win away from the final four, you better believe that the scouting report is in, right? So what you need to advance are X-factors, players stepping up outside of themselves and putting on an incredible performance that the other team may not have counted for, or maybe made a bet on like, all right, we're going to take away this. Let's see if they can beat me there. And that's exactly what happened with Tamiya Gardner hitting five threes in the game. I mean, that's, that's an X factor stepping up or Hakez with the dagger

three, a big shot rebounds just worth steals working throughout the game to make things happen. And as somebody who's been a point guard in stressful, tough situations, you know, I'm looking at Kiki rice who did not have a good shooting game but still had eight assists that takes mental toughness to continue to just stay with it, stay with it. And speaking of mental toughness, we're going gonna highlight the fact

that Lauren Betts had foul trouble in the game, but what stood out to me is that despite having foul trouble through the first half of the game, she still was able to come in and make big impact. I mean, she had six blocks in the game. She still had 17 points. She made her presence known on both ends. It's really hard when you're sitting out for that long,

especially early, not to get psyched out, not to get cold, or it's hard to find your way back into a rhythm of the game. And instead she was able to stay with it, the sign of a really high level and high mental toughness type player. It also takes a lot to get back in the game and play like you have zero fouls.

I mean, sure, she was probably being safe on some plays, but a lot of those blocks that she went up for just plays where she was on the ball by herself going for charges like she was playing fearless. And I absolutely love that because I think a scared Lauren Betts would not have helped this team, but she really stepped up when she needed to, as she has been all season. But that's an excellent point. Yeah. Another team that we've been seeing be dominant is Yukon and they're taking on UCLA.

I am so scared for this game, but they are appearing in their record 24th final four after beating USA. And this game, I feel like it did go as everyone expected it to go. But what we also did not expect to see was Sarah Strong stepping up to the level that she did. She was absolutely shining with 22 points and 17 rebounds. 17 rebounds! That is so crazy. But she tied a Maya Moore record, and while watching her, I was actually thinking, this is a little mini Maya Moore in the making. We'd love to see it. But on top of that, we also have March Pagebackers

who came in with 31 points after dropping 40 in the Sweet 16. So what do these two need to do for you, want to continue their level of dominance to the finals? Yeah, I too felt mind boggled by the play of Sarah Strong. I mean, you know, first of all, 22.17 rebounds. That's incredible. But also the fact that she got to it right away and early, you got a freshman setting the tone for your team and Gina Oriana challenged her. He knew. Remember we talked about this in the beginning. Hey, the scout is in.

We're taking away the stars. So he challenged his freshmen to step up and she did. This is part of like the March Madness. She's unafraid. She can play at different ranges. She's a mobile post that can shoot from three. She's undersized, but she makes it happen. And I'm really impressed by her poise. You know, she's heading to her first Final Four as a freshman.

I remember my first Final Four. I wasn't a freshman, but I remember the first and I was with Stanford. And literally like my first shot of the game. I believe I was starting. Yeah, I was a starter. My first shot of the game. I shot right over the rim like just right over it. And I think Tara just yanked me right away. I don't know. But more to say like, yo, these moments are big. These are big. These stages are big. Shout out to Caitlin Chen, who also took charge of that stage.

She is great in March Bandit, she was great with Princeton, but this game, she really popped her stuff. I'm going to say, I'm not going to swear, trying really hard not to swear these days, but she gave them 15 points and amazing. I love the shout out. I think, you know, all of these guards are opportunistic and she came in was really great. She ran her lane. Paige found her.

She got some really important layups and you're going to need a full team effort for UConn. But it also brings me to Paige, you know, who had a 40 point game, now a 31 point game, and she is aggressively hunting her shot. Like defenses and she is aggressively hunting her shot like defenses and she's reading the defense like if the defense is going to sit back in a drop coverage or if they're going to go under a screen she's pulling from deep and fast so she's going to burn you with the three if the defense is on her hip she's going to take you off the bounce and what I love is how strong her final two steps are into her pull up jumper

she's really set and balanced into that midi that like mid range jump shot. She does not get into deep. She does a great job of locating like the gap and the hole and hits that, you know, and she's really been great from mid range and deadly and more maybe even more importantly pages understanding of the moment when there's a moment where the momentum could swing or when they need to close a quarter, or where they need to pour it on, or they need a response,

I have found that Paige has been stepping up to provide that in this tournament for UConn. I wanted to see her shot chart, because that's probably insane, but a big thing I also noticed is when she's off balance, she's draining, like, it's not a miss. It's pretty much a guaranteed make, and that's very hard to do. draining. Like it's not a mess. It's pretty much a guaranteed make and that's very hard to do. I mean, I'm not a basketball pro myself, but I can only

imagine with the top defense on you, I mean, you're on one foot pretty much falling over. Very impressive. Well, well, I'll just add in though, I think, I think it's an interesting point too about like what those shots look like. I actually have been really impressed. I feel like a lot of her shots have been on balance, you know, like that she's finding the gap and elevating, you know, elevating for it. I think she's very skilled and under control. Absolutely. She's speaking perfectly for the W and I really hope that she can go and get that ring because it would just be so poetic for her. But focusing in on the Final Four matchup, UCLA versus UConn, Roz, what do you expect to see from this game?

Yeah, I was thinking about where the advantages are for these two teams. And I think one aspect of this, there's a mental framing aspect of this. For UConn, they've been to the Final Four now. This is their second time in a row. They've been there 24 times. And it's very clear that the goal for them

is the championship. Like they want to get, they want to get Paige over the hump here. This has been an overarching storyline. Now that's not to say UCLA's goal is not to win the championship, but you gotta be careful here because they are in a different place

in the fact that this is the first final four in program history. So I think some very intentional reframing is important to make sure that you're not just happy with, you know, to be there. You want to make sure you're not just happy to be there. You're not happy with that headline that you want to get greedy right now and get two more wins. And so that's the all I'm saying is that there is a mental advantage here that I think favors Yukon. And it's just a matter of reframing that could help UCLA approach this game right. Size battle is another thing I'm looking at. I think the size battle is with UCLA and Lauren Betts.

And I'm looking at the matchup. If we see Lauren Betts and Sarah Strong against each other at any point, I mean, you maybe you could see UConn utilize their mobility to create foul trouble or their shooting ability, like Sarah Strong's ability to possibly pull a defender out, perhaps Lauren Betts opens up the paint for everyone else. And so but I still think that advantage goes UCLA And then UConn, the advantages with their guard play between just experience, productivity, consistency, and pagebackers. I would like to see AZ step up a little bit more as well.

And then actually on the flip side, Kiki Rice. And I think if both teams have both those players firing, I don't know, it would go to overtime, maybe double overtime is gonna be a very close game. It's a great point. And I actually think that that is an advantage for Yukon though, because we haven't even seen AZ Fudd have some big game in this tournament. Like that's almost like something that could be another X factor

for them in the Final Four. Should she come more alive? Maybe she's just saving it for Tampa. But I want to move to the other side of the bracket. We have South Carolina and Texas. And South Carolina has been giving me heart palpitations. I think they've been giving everyone heart palpitations because their past two games have been super close. But even with that, they've been able to pull out the win with the last one being a four-point

win over Duke. To be honest, I kind of think that Duke lost that game for themselves. But do you think that this is sustainable or does South Carolina need to step things up? Girl, experience matters at this point of the season, and I agree. It looked like Duke did not know how to execute down to stretch and just close that game out and win or grab it or steal it or take it. And look, it's South Carolina who continues to find a way. But for me, again, at this point of the year,

a win is a win is a win. And they don't have to be pretty. Win in advance. You only need two more at this point to the championship. And neither one of them gotta be pretty. You just need a W. And so for South Carolina, I think what's key for them, they have an identity around defense.

They've gotta make sure that they at minimum execute that and keep the game low scoring and, you know, make it hard on the other team. Offensively, South Carolina doesn't necessarily have some go-to, like, huge superstar player. It's by committee and everyone's seemingly been like scrapping it together to make something happen. And for me, what that brings to light is just how great Dawn Staley has been at understanding what buttons to push for her players, when to push them and how to.

Like, for instance, in the Sweet 16, it was my Leija Full Wiley who came through and had a huge second half after Dawn Staley got on her and she recognized in full Wiley that in the past that she might have closed down shut down, but that she was ready for that now. And she responded to have a huge second half and push them into the elite eight in the elite eight game. Chloe Kitts had a strong finish and she's been playing really strong as of late. But I think that Dawn Staley empowered her at the end.

And there's some post game, you hear them talking about how Dawn was like, yo, we're going to you and Chloe wasn't fully even sure herself. She admitted that and she said I had to tell myself at the free throw line I'm a good basketball player and I'm gonna make that and I found it really relatable because just because you're in these situations and shining in them does not mean that you always know right away that it's gonna be you. There are some players who know, but there are some who are figuring it out as they go along. And Dawn put her players in positions to step up and shine, and they did.

And guess what? She did that in different ways for each of them. Different messaging for full Wiley, different messaging for clip for kids. And I got to tell you that there's a number of coaches, high level coaches that don't know how to talk to their players or only have one way to talk to their players and sometimes crush their confidence instead of empowering them or don't know that different players need different things. And as South Carolina scraps one win after another,

and these are scrappy, squeaking out wins, it's Dawn who's understanding what buttons to push, who to empower, and how are we going to get out of this. And so I just want to shout out Dawn Staley on the coaching job. And that right there is why she's one of the greatest coaches of all time. But Roz, real quick, I have 20 seconds left on this clock.

Everyone is scrimming at me. What do you think this game is going to come down to? Well, when you have two strong defensive teams, possessions matter even more. So that's one. Also, can Texas take advantage of their size? And then finally, Madison Booker. She is shooting only 21% in losses to the Gamecocks this season.

That was a great, fast answer. Thank you so much. But y'all, coming up... We did it! Coming up for Ross is down with WNBA legend Lisa Leslie, and it's going to be a great one. So we'll be right back. What's up, good follow. We have a legendary guest joining us today. We have a Hall of Famer, a two-time WNBA champion,

a three-time WNBA MVP, a four-time Olympic gold medalist. These are just to name a few of the accolades of the great and awesome Lisa Leslie. What's going on Lisa? Roz, it's so good to see you again. Again. My partner, Grime, don't forget about time we had oxtails together since you brought her. Yes, people don't know. Yes, we were together covering Unrivaled and we were down in Miami in Medley and Lisa and I needed a lunch break

and we said, girl, where are we gonna find some oxtails? Right? And we was, but we was hurt. We ate so much. I was like, I didn't eat no more food the rest of the day. I was, that was too heavy of a meal. But we- We did it. It was delicious. And we had the mac and cheese side, right? Yes. I read all a bunch of your accolades, but an accolade that, you know, may not even be on your Wikipedia page and is flying under the radar. Content Queen. Okay, content Queen because like how do you love and crush social

media so much and how are you staying up with all of these trends because you're on the talker tick. You're on the Grammy gram. You're doing all the things you're with Gen Z doing this and that like come on. What's up content Queen? Well, listen, you know, I got kids. So listen, I got a 17 year old and a 15 year old.

So it's just, for me, I have to know what's going on. So between watching them and seeing TikTok and checking them, I really just enjoy social media. But I think I enjoy making the videos. It all started through the pandemic. Just trying to meet my kids where they are and doing TikTok dances. And then I sort of took over the TikTok world from them.

And ever since then, I just really love it. I think having content and having fun and you know, I'm so silly, I have a lot of fun. I think you can't take yourself so seriously. I'm such a loving person where I love people. I love to make people laugh. And I just think it's a good time. I don't. Yeah. Yeah. I have a good time. I really like it. Very editing though. That's a whole nother story. That's hard. You might have to hire somebody to do the editing. You just like plop all the content and you say, put this thing together. Right. But

that's one thing that I really, you know, noticed in being able to be close to you for long periods of time as a fellow broadcaster on Unrivaled and being together in Miami. You're such a lovely person. You really make time for people and your friendships and dynamics are so genuine. It's not just like kissing babies and shaking hands like Lisa messing with you, she rocking with you. And that brings me to one of the friendships that, you know, people enjoy watching. It's between you and Dawn Staley. As we, you know, sit here in March Madness and the woman's tournament is underway. What have you seen as a lifelong friend of Dawn Staley? What did you see in her as a player, as a teammate, as a friend that you recognize now in her as a coach?

Loyalty is probably number one. Trust is number two and just authentic. You know, those three things probably have rang significant to me in my head with this friendship since I was 16 years old. Listen, I got to sign the room with Dawn Staley. I didn't know who she was. She played for the University of Virginia. into me in my head with t I was 16 years old. Listen room with Dawn Staley. I was. She played for the You know, I walk in a roo

I'm 65 and we like, let's I felt like we just, we'r of person in terms of our loyalty to people to want where we are better when we come in. And that part is just contagious. And I've seen that from her as a roommate, as in a teammate, as a leader on the court, as our captain of our USA teams, her vocal leadership and her will to want to win is contagious.

Like, you know, don't throw a pass. And I'm like, I will dive in all the way out of bounce and get it, throw it back in. I could have been out of bounds, but I will not let that ball go because of what she means to me and how she wants to win. And I think it's like that idea that she's the person that she makes you kind of want

to run through a wall for her, if that makes any sense. You know, and that was just my teammate. But it's because how hard she worked in her work ethic, that becomes contagious. And then I'm working that hard down in the post and I'm trying to get every ball and I want to score. So my efficiency level would go up and it would be like, we just play ball in a way that we just love every moment, every opportunity. And I think you can see that translate to her as a coach. Like her players wanna run through a wall for her. She is very loyal. She's trustworthy.

She's authentic. Those are the three things that I felt that she was as a teammate. And I see that she is as a coach. Yeah, yeah. And you know, you mentioned her as a roommate and you guys were teammates in the Olympics. Now were you roommates with her? What was Dawn like as a roommate? Oh my God. So we were roommates for, because you know, we didn't

get sort of this, this is where it comes down to like equal treatment. We didn't get equal treatment of having separate our own rooms until we joined the men's Olympic team. So prior to that, and Raj, you gotta remember, 1995, we traveled the world. We were 60 and oh, but before we got to the Olympics, we were, what was that? We were 60, no, 52, before we won the eight games in the Olympics.

Before we meet it with the US men's team, we're traveling the world and everybody has a roommate. So Dawn was my roommate from the day I met her at 16 every USA team I've been on she was my roommate. Now how was Dawn as a roommate? Well she's been out there because you know she's claims that she's made me a better wife just because she's so OCD before those words were even a something. She's like there's a spot here on the floor. Oh no, there like you have, I'd have t

the bathroom like the mai step in there. And then I know what you shower firs I'll go second. And then she does this sound when that means something is o a drop of water somewhere. So I'm like, girl, you are crazy.

But she's very neat and I'm very neat. So we worked well together. Like, you know, it's like, don't sit on our beds. Don't wear your shoes in the room. When we play cards and entertain, it's never in our room. We go to someone else's room so we could leave it because we didn't want anybody to be in our room. So she is just very meticulous, detailed,

the same way that she is now. Outfits were still on point then they just didn't cost as much as they do now. Always been into a capsule collection, I would say. So yeah, before that was a word, don't it's like blue, black, gray, white, you know, her clothes always match and folded so neatly. So she's been awesome, though. She's clearly had an impact on my life in a way that, you know, I always think about her being from Philly and me being from L.A.

Like, we're opposites opposite high five, six, six, five. But our hearts and our ability and I desire to want to win is really what bonded us. Yeah. Yeah. You also mentioned you worked well together. What are the chances you could see yourself? You know, is there any truth to these rumors that might be circulating right now and buzzing that you could work together on a coaching staff because I know this is something you had

talked about being interested in on the WNBA side and now there's all this buzz that oh Lisa and Dawn may link up. I know it's so funny that you could I could go to visit my friend and watch her play, watch her coach, and then all of a sudden social media. That's probably the there's good parts about it, but then there's bad parts because it's like you can't even give a person a hug. I say, hey, it applies. And then it's just like, I mean, it's just crazy that social media

just takes any situation and turns it into a play okay. So it was social media running. Yeah. Social media just taking off sprinting right now. Okay. Okay. We keep it moving then. Um, you know, within the March madness, we have had some sadness, uh, obviously with the injury to the ACL of Juju Watkins. And I know this also hits home too, USC is your alma mater. What does this injury mean for the trajectory of the career of Juju Watkins? Well, it means that we would probably be delayed, right?

A year of her getting back to normal as well as, listen, she's such an explosive player, right? So to be explosive, we've seen a lot of players who've had these ACL injuries and it takes time. It takes time to get back to where you know that you can play and we have to give her grace and time to be able to get back there. It's definitely heartbreaking. You know, we're all impacted.

I mean, I'm not even on the team and I was heartbroken, just like in shock watching. So, yeah, it's going to take time and we have to give her grace. And, you know, when you see a player of that caliber, you just hope that they can continue to get back there. And I know that she will. She's a hard worker. We have some of the best doctors, you know, in the world, you know, there at USC and in L.A. So she'll get back there. We, we, we forget, but remember Paige Becker's ACL, AZ Fudd, ACL.

Um, so we know that players can get back there, but it's just, it's going to take us a little bit. This was real good check for all of us. Cause she's such an impact player. And we were like, this is the net. Like the women's game is in such good hands when you think about you walk into and so it'll be back in her hands, but we just got to give her some time. Yes. Yes. I have no doubts. I mean, this is not,

this is something that has been overcome before in an ACL, but it certainly was shocking, right? And, and heard around the woman's basketball world. But I'm here to tell you as as we look forward and look positive, that there is so many other exciting players and storylines and teams to be following in this tournament as well. And this tournament has been full of surprises, you know? So we've got to come to you and ask,

who are some of the surprising teams and surprising players of the tournament? And how has their performance and surprises, how's that going to shape the rest of March Madness? Yeah, I think, well, first, I don't know if it's necessarily a surprise, but when you look at UCLA and them having the number one seed and you think about Lauren Betts and her just being really a program changer, I mean, at 6'7 and her wingspan, we knew that USC was the only team that sort of had their number and without Juju, that changes a lot of things because I really had

them facing off, you know. But Texas also, even though they're number one seed, it's just like when teams align so well and they're playing well at the same time, those are going to be teams where I'm like, oh, they may have s in a way that you didn't I think overall, when we looked at the tournament, women's basketball, the t we're seeing where it's l

the defending champs and take them down and their defense is stellar. Like they really hang their hats on defense and they get guards. I mean, when you're out there on that perimeter, the guard play defensively is at a very high level, you know? So I just look at all of those things and go, I'm not sure, Roz. Like I used to be real sure about who was gonna do it. I'm not anymore because that's just how excellent the game

is being played all around. Just shifting a little bit from March Madness into other women's basketball. I mean where you and I had the chance to work together was unrivaled in Miami. The season has come to a close. Just Lisa, how would you evaluate this first inaugural season of Unrivaled and its trajectory moving forward? Yeah. I hate to use the word unrivaled, but it truly was like unrivaled. Everything was mind blowing about Unrivaled from the fact that they played full court three on three from the fact that they came out and it was balling like, cause Roz, you

know, we played three on three before and three on three could get real, what's the right word? Raggedy. It could get a little bit like people don't run back because you got tired. Like it could fall apart in a way that that's, it would not be good for TV. And unrivaled was the exact opposite. Like it was phenomenal. Yeah. I don't know if I'm just biased that I was had a front row seat to be able to commentate and color, you know, add color to it, But I thought it was so excited. I love the battles, the battles of the big and the paint. I love the guard play. I mean, I could just go on and on.

And then the players that just rose to the top. And when you talk about in a piece of call here and how excellent she was that one on one bracket, that one on one tournament was mind blowing and epic. Like there was so many elements and then Angel Reese doing so great. Chelsea gray, like what ripped the bandaid off of these fools? Like don't disrespect her. And then from the road when the championship, like there was so many elements that I loved every minute. And I'm telling you, if you were sitting at home and you're a WNBA player, like the Unrivaled League is where you want to be in the offseason. Oh, yeah. I loved it. Wow. Wow. No, I thought it

was a great success, you know, and I thought it was every single thing that could be epic for Unrivaled happened, like whether it was the one-on-one tournament and Nafis' dominance or the fact that the Owls dominated all the way and then got knocked out by a four seed or. I can't believe it. You know, like it was, it was just, and all the trash talking and the rivalries for 10 weeks, people cared. People cared. And then just to highlight, like Skylar did, I thought Skylar really set the tone,

defensively picking up full court. The Lunar Isles were just excellent. Yeah. You look at like vinyl with Ryan Howard, like when it was ride time, it was just crazy. Do you hear her handi? I thought she played so excellent. And then for those two teams,

when you're talking about vinyl and Rose to make it to the finals, because Rose had already started to surge, which I liked that. Brittany Sikes was like, listen, I think the other teams have peaked and we have not, we have a chance to really make a run at the championship. She said that right after the one-on-one turn and then Chelsea Gray like runs off 27 points per game. Like it was just crazy.

Mind blowing to watch them play and get to the finals and win it all. Like right. Ever a fan. And you know, with the team vinyl overcoming the dominance of the Owls, my immediate reaction was only coach spoon. You know, seriously, you hear about those players speak after overcoming such, you know, such a dominant team and they all said, boy, Teresa Weatherspoon was speaking in my ear, was keeping us into it. Do you think this was a, a really, um, just a good showing for Teresa

Weatherspoon since leaving Chicago, just the coaching job there? Absolutely. And let me just say, Roz, I feel like the problem, and I kind of spoke about this when I did Angel Reese's podcast is about, you know, for the black women and coaching, the lack of grace that we get in these spaces is just sad. And I feel like I'm not ever sure that we were ever going to know what happened with Teresa Weatherspoon in Chicago sky. But the fact that she didn't have, she was not given any grace to,

to let's communicate, let's sit down and let's have the pros and cons about what we like, what you're doing and what we don't like. Like let's try to change some of these things. Give her the opportunity to make adjustments as a coach, but she didn't get that. And that's what I feel like what makes me feel a little bit jaded sometimes about the whole coaching thing is because the lack of grace and communication. And I'm not trying to put anybody out on blast, but it's like,

whatever happened with Becky Hammond and Las Vegas and Dierdre Hamby was everybody was given a due process, uh, you know, a suspension happened. And then there was a regrouping, you know, Vegas was able to regroup. D hand, it was able to move on. And I just felt like whatever the problem was with Teresa Weatherspoon, we will never know. But she doesn't know. Hmm. Like there was no grace given to her in these conversations of like, hey,

we don't like this or we like this or could you do this differently? And that's the part where I'm just like, I was so happy. I say all that not to air out anything, but just to say, I'm so happy that Teresa Witherspoon had such success with those players and the connection and the love and the respect that her players gave back to her throughout that. And let me add that Teresa Witherspoon was also

helping and working with other players on other teams who ended up being Brittany Sy ended sites who ended up winning I mean, if that's not love a coach that has an open h door to help anybody, I d And so I just feel like he coach. If you didn't like organization, communicate

to fire her after one year, I don't even know if we've seen that happen before. So I mean, and with the WNBA season, it's not even a year we talking about a handful of months, right? And then a whole staff, you know, people are trying to even survive. So for that, listen, I'm always going to love spoon. I think she's just such an excellent person. And I was happy to see her have that success and get to the finals and then coach Nola too. Like I would listen, you know, there's only two women in unrivaled coaches.

So you know, you kind of low key feel like, okay, you know, you've got to give them a little because they're, they're making these opportunities to for themselves. So I was really happy to see both of them go head to head in the finals. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, staying in on the conversation around like the WNBA on a whole, this is a pivotal time for the league itself and attention's at an all-time high. Ratings are at an all-time high. They're adding WNBA teams. And right now the CBA is in renegotiations. And, you know, we'll get you out around this conversation, but as they go into renegotiations with the CBA, what do you think is important for the players and the league to keep in mind

and be wary of? Well, the most important thing, and again, I used to be a part of these talks when we were playing is to not have the league be shut down. Like to me that's like number one. And so to try to find a happy medium in negotiations is always in some ways difficult because both sides know what they want. But I think when you ask the players to sacrifice

and continue to make sacrifices so that the league can survive and get to this place, that it's time for those players to reap the benefits that we all put blood, sweat and tears for because we understood back then there was no money to be had. There was nothing to share right now. There is, and I think that's just doing what is right. The league should do right by the players and you know, they listen to players with with this collective bargaining group. You know, it is time for them to get a piece of the puzzle

and whatever that is, I don't know all the details, but I think the most important thing is that they are playing. And so the league will have to make, you know, concessions to make sure that happens. And I don't know with the right, you know, I don't want to speak wrong about either side because it's a very tough time when you're in negotiation. I know that from both sides.

And then you have the league, like if you could don't speak on that, then you have the players association where, they don't want us to speak on certain things. And I'm not saying me personally, but the players. So I just think it's a tough position, but the WBA is going to have to open up some door and spaces for these players to have

opportunities and a piece of the pie because they have definitely taken the backseat for many, many years, decades, actually. And just to follow up, you feel that everyone should try to avoid striking or stoppage of play because it would shake up momentum right now for everything that's happening for women's basketball? 100%, Roz. I mean, at the end of the day, you have these sponsors, you have money on the table, you have the TV deals, you want all those things, but they need something to put on television. And it's a business. It's a business, right? We all know that. So hopefully they can find a happy medium, figure out what do the players want want and let's see how close we can get to giving them what they want.

That's what I would think at this point in day and age in the WNBA. I would think that because the sacrifice has been made. I'm, I'm proof of the sacrifice, you know, when the pandemic hit, that's proof of the sacrifices because everybody had to make sacrifices. So I just think it's going to be important for the league to try to meet the players wherever they are. And again, I don't not privy to the details of what they're asking for, but they're going to definitely have to come to the table and let's get this

deal done so we can continue the momentum to make more money for everybody. Lisa, thank you so much for your time, for your, your just wonderful energy. I'm so happy to see you, girl. And I hope to see more of you. Miami can't be all that we do together. I need to see you in LA. No, no, I should see you in Tampa. Tampa will get a chance to, you know.

Absolutely. Final four. I'll see you in a minute. Okay. Have a nice day, Lisa. Thanks for joining Good Follow-up. Thanks for having me and congratulations on the show. Oh, thank you.

Yeah, you always rock it. MUSIC Welcome back to Good Follows Show. She's Logan. I'm Roz and a big thank you to Lisa Leslie, one of the legends of the game, for joining us on the show for a sit down interview. And now since we are in the heat of March, March Madness and all this craziness, we've got a new segment for you called This Is Madness. Well, you know, they're so crazy with these graphics.

But Logan and I are going to break down some of the wild things happening in the game. So I'll go first. You like this, Logan? I love it. I know. Girl, the transfer portal is absolutely bonkers. Pandemonium. And guess what? It's packed. More than over 1,000 college basketball players

are entering the transfer portal, including the huge news of Olivia Miles opting out of the draft and a potential number two draft pick. Some people had her there and transferring out of Notre Dame. Not to mention Jada Williams, Tanaya Latson and more. We have seen some positive success stories around this, like TCU's,

Haley Van Lyt, staying the extra year and really having a great showing in doing that. So when you take all of this into account, is this madness at the transfer portal? Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Is it hurting the game? Or is it a good opportunity for the players, Logan? You know what? I think at some point it's a bit of everything, but it is like a six-sided dice because there's so many different situations on why players are entering the portal. I'll start out by saying I love the portal. I was going to use it if COVID didn't hit.

And I love that players have their choice in the autonomy to say, I'm not happy in this position. Let me go to a different school. Let me find better, get what they need. But there are so many different players in the portal to Nailatsoen. She deserves to shine on a better team and have better players around her.

Florida State just lost their other two top scorers. So that makes sense. Cody McMahon, she thought at Ohio State that she'd make it far in the tournament. It hasn't happened yet. She should go to another school. But with that said, I think there are some cases that people misuse the portal.

And, you know, with Samaya Smith entering yesterday from LSU, it is another topic in this, which is, does NIL really play a part? Because a few years ago, we saw them as a super team and they were the huge NIL school. And so, there's all these interesting things, but another thing is that number is very intimidating because there are probably a ton of players at tier three schools

looking to go to tier twos, let's say a Grambling State to a Coastal Carolina or something. And then some from mid-majors trying to get up into the power four schools, but it doesn't necessarily mean they want to be on the top 25 teams. So the number itself is very intimidating, but to fully come back to it, it's a bit of everything and gets mattered by the day, especially with Olivia entering the portal, which nobody thought would happen, especially given how tied down it looked like she was to Notre Dame,

not even to mention that she was going to the draft. But Roz, what was your reaction to all that when you saw it? I mean, I had so many group chats going around this. I was like, wait, what? And first of all, there's so many tentacles coming out of this. It makes you think about the WNBA draft and how that gets affected.

And you look at some decisions that teams made giving up high draft picks, and you're like, boy, Chicago securing Courtney Vandersloot looks really good now. Or LA going for Kelsey Plum made giving up high draft picks and you're like, boy, Chicago securing Courtney VanderSloot looks really good now. Or, you know, L.A. going for Kelsey Plum and giving up the number two pick. You're like, well, that's that's looks solid for them. And also makes you think about the new CBA coming or the negotiations around it with the WNBA and what that could mean for upcoming rookies and perhaps players that decided to stay and wait to see what

that would mean financially for them. There's a lot of good guards in the transfer portal right now. So like what teams on the collegiate side are going to benefit from that? You know, perhaps Yukon, Paige Becker's is leaving or TCU with Haley Van Lith not only leaving but her success story with Mark Campbell, who has also successfully helped groom Sabrina Yonescu, guards might be looking at that as a nice destination. And one question is, is everything okay at Notre Dame? Because they had a really, you know,

sleepy kind of finish to the season. And now this, look, I'm always rooting for Notre Dame and Coach Ivy, I think she's excellent. So it just makes you think about a lot of things. Absolutely. Moving on to the next topic of This Is Madness. It's been another huge discussion, but in a weird way. The men and women's coverage is not created equal, but it was seen recently with Stephen

A. Smith who called out Kim Mulkey for her rude and condescending comments. Now it sparked a huge debate on how women's coaches are perceived. And Stephen A going at Kim Mulkey is such a conundrum to begin with. So is the women's basketball coverage madness or are we seeing fair critique here? Look, you know, the critique is what it is. And let me start by saying I very much respect and enjoy Stephen A Smith. I think he's very good at his craft and has worked very hard to be where he is. That said, on this one, I was kind of like, y'all don't even cover enough women's basketball on your program, the show,

to have like your main commentary be taking down one of the legends of the game. Like her or not, Kim is a legend of the game. And I felt like it was a little inappropriate or just like a little bit like out, like weird to see coming from Stephen A, who literally is in a public argument with LeBron James, where both sides are being criticized for just like how all over the place they have seen seemed. And it's like the pot calling the kettle black. Is that how that goes?

So I was kind of like from you, I don't know. And is this where you want to start when you have like your one, two minute segment on women's basketball? And I do think for sure that there are male coaches who have absolutely berated reporters, embarrassed them, sideline reporters. And sure, they've been criticized. But I also think like there's not enough face time for great coaches and great women's basketball moments for this to be the headline.

So I think that in general, for the larger media scene, we need to continue to work hard on how we're covering the women's game and women's excellence and women's athletes. I also add that Kim's sense of humor is very unique and it's not often understood, but the full clip of this video tells the fuller story. You get more context. She winks at the reporter afterward. She's like, oh, I'm joking. She goes on to answer his question perfectly. No animosity in there, but yeah, it was definitely... Totally. Headline hunting as opposed to actually

spending the time to really understand the story. And we have some quick hits for you. We'll be right back. ["Draff Kings Theme Song"] Welcome back to Good Follow. This segment is presented by DraftKings. And then there were four. The woman's final four tips off and Tampa both games are great, but I can't wait to see UCLA versus Yukon. And for Yukon, it's Paige Becker's leading the way. She's been on a tear in the tournament, aggressively hunting her shot and scoring at all ranges. She heads into the Final Four on back-to-back 30-plus point games.

That's a 40-piece and a 31-point game. She's making great reads, burning defense that go under with a three. And if they fly out on her, she's going to step into her lethal mid-range jumper. Paige also makes impact on the defensive end. She's got long limbs and is disruptive, and she's going to stuff the stat sheet with some steals and blocks too. For UCLA, it's their 6'7 big girl Lauren Betts. She anchors this team. She's been on a tear during the tournament, scoring on much smaller defenders, and she's blocking everything. She eats at the rim. She's incredibly efficient in deep and gobbles rebounds. She's a rim

protector and mucks it up in the paint for opposing teams. UCLA enters the first Final Four in program history. Congrats! But UConn heads into its second Final Four in a row and 24th overall. The Huskies are also hungry to send Paige Becker's out with the championship. They haven't won since 2016 and after overcoming many injuries and disappointments during Paige's tenure, Logan, I think this year they're going to do it. The segment is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours. The crown is yours, Roz. I love that pick. Let's actually stick with March Madness for

a second. Four out of the five most followed athletes in the tournament are women. We absolutely love to see it. They're all beating out Cooper Flagg and you know when everyone talks about the men's tournament, Cooper Flagg is like the only name I hear. Yeah. But we have four ahead of them. I'm kind of like duh. Like y'all gotta tap in, do your follows. The next one we have is the Major League Pickleball. Their average pay is $260,000, which is more than the WNBA and NWSL salaries. Honestly, my boyfriend Kyle, if you're watching this, we need to get into it because we've been playing Pickleball in our off time or whatever, and I think it's time for us to go pro because

$260,000 sounds pretty nice. Who wins? Is it you or your boyfriend that's better? Him, but as a doubles pair, we're lethal. And I think we go pro. The challenge is for me to get my doubles partner and then battle against y'all. Okay, pickleball.

Let's do it. Couples pickleball coming soon. We'll do it like a huge stadium too, make it a big thing. But actually something else that, make it a big thing. But actually something else that has been made a big thing is Angel Reese had Krishan on her podcast and it's kind of caused a fire online. I don't really have any thoughts about this, but Roz, when you saw this, did anything spark her interest? You know, I thought it was interesting

when I saw that she was going to interview Krishan and I actually was like, wow, this is an opportunity for Angel to really showcase her journalism skills as a true interviewer because, you know, mostly she's talked to a lot of athletes, maybe a few musicians, but Krishan's got a complicated story to tell and, you know, controversial in some ways too. But as far as pushback on whether or not she should have this guest, Angel said herself, is her podcast. Shannon Sharp is interviewing all sorts of kinds of guests, and he's made his podcast one of the biggest in the country, in the world possibly.

So why shouldn't Angel Reese have the opportunity for that, for her to be a platform where people get to take control of their own narratives? That was the whole point of this in the first place, right, for Angel? Yeah, and that's exactly what I was thinking is maybe we'll see a different side of Krishan that we have not been able to see her. She could tell her story in a different way. I think Angel is actually a great person to get that out of her. But the last one we have is Alex Morgan finally gave birth to her baby. She had a little baby boy named him Enso. For some reason, I feel like she was pregnant forever, but I'm very happy that she now has baby Enzo

to get to go with baby Charlie. Well, Charlie's not so much a baby anymore, but I love it. It's baby season. I feel like everybody's having a baby right now. I literally have started a budget for baby showers. It's getting out of control. Like, I have to keep a calendar for all of everybody's like, love babies, marriage engagements now.

I mean, that's where I am in my life, Logan. Maybe not for you yet. I do feel like every time I opened Instagram, there's at least one person who's getting engaged, married, baby, you just said it all. So it's the season. We're just like, we're going to the final four. We're gonna be looking into sports.

All right, Logan, we're rocking out on our show. Good follow show. And it's now coming to an end, my love. So we want to thank all of you for rocking with us, for watching the show. I have seen y'all subscribing, commenting, liking. We thank you. You know, follow us on socials. We're going to keep trying to bring it for y'all every Wednesday at seven.

We drop. We want to make sure to thank one of the goats, one of the legends of the game, probably one of our biggest guests ever to come to the show or most decorated in Lisa Leslie. Awesome interview with her. And Logan, any final words before we head out of here? Nothing but love. Yeah. We're presented by DraftKings. We'll see you next week.

Bye, guys.