The Deck - Nikole Bakoles (3 of Hearts, Utah)

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

Our card this week is Nikole "Niki" Bakoles, the 3 of Hearts from Utah. When duck hunters discovered human remains in an area called Saltair near The Great Salt Lake in Utah in the fall of 2000, investigators began the difficult task of trying to learn the real name of the woman they called “Saltair Sally".  It took 12 years for the remains to be identified as those of Nikole “Niki” Bakoles, a 20-year-old mom originally from Washington state. Now, nearly another 12 years have passed, and investigators are still trying to figure out what happened to Niki and who left her by that lake. Investigators are still looking to talk to anyone who knew Niki Bakoles or Joel Chaudoin in the greater Salt Lake City area in early 2000. If you or anyone you know knew them, or if you have any information about Niki’s death, please contact Salt Lake County Sheriff’s Detective Ben Pender at 385-468-9816 or [e-mail]. View source material and photos for this episode at: thedeckpodcast.com/niki-bakoles Let us deal you in… follow The Deck on social media.Instagram: @thedeckpodcast | @audiochuckTwitter: @thedeckpodcast_ | @audiochuckFacebook: /TheDeckPodcast | /audiochuckllcTo support Season of Justice and learn more, please visit seasonofjustice.org. The Deck is hosted by Ashley Flowers. Instagram: @ashleyflowersTikTok: @ashleyflowerscrimejunkieTwitter: @Ash_FlowersFacebook: /AshleyFlowers.AF Text Ashley at 317-733-7485 to talk all things true crime, get behind the scenes updates, and more!

Our card this week is Nicole Bacolus, the three of hearts from Utah. For 12 years, no one knew the name of a young woman whose skeletal remains were discovered near a lake in Utah. Now Nicole Bacolus has her name back, but her family and the detectives working her case are still hoping to uncover another name, the name of the person or persons who left Nicole's body by that lake 24 years ago. I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is the deck. By 2011, Nancy Bacolson was the first woman to be named the first woman to be named the first woman to be named

the first woman to be named the first woman to be named the first woman to be named the first woman to be named By 2011, Nancy Bacolus had been searching for her daughter Nikki for over a decade. The last time Nancy saw her daughter was at the end of 1999. She and her three other kids had spoken to Nikki on the phone a little after that, but they couldn't pinpoint exactly when Nikki made her last phone call home, because at the time, they didn't know it would be the last. The family had once been as close as close could be, especially Nikki and her little brother James, who was less than a year younger than her.

When we were younger, we were just peas in a pod, you know. We did everything together all the way up until maybe fifth and sixth grade when she went off to middle school. And I think that our particular bond was kind of stronger all the way up until that point. And then inevitably, like any older sibling would, she needed a little independence. And so I kind of turned into the trailing,

kind little brother. But she always looked after me. She also let me know I was annoying at times. Like so many teenage girls, Nikki started going to parties and hanging out with boys. But it wasn't until she met an older guy named Joel that things really took a turn. She actually met him through church of all places.

Even though Joel was the child of very strict religious parents, he seemed to have quite a bit of freedom. Maybe because of all places. Even though Joel was the child of very strict religious parents, he seemed to have quite a bit of freedom. Maybe because of his age. I mean, he was over 18. So, what were his parents really going to do? Whatever the draw, 16-year-old Nicky fell for Joel hard and fast. James said that before he knew it, his sister and Joel were on an overnight camping trip with another couple, which he said raised red flags for him, even as a teenage boy himself. Within a couple weeks of having had known each other or gone out, they went camping east of the mountains.

Do I have any idea how a couple of 16-year-old girls went camping with a 19-year-old and a 21-year-old in eastern Washington? No, I don't. But it sounds ridiculous to me, and there's lots of things where I look back and I get frustrated, like, who was in charge? Who was paying attention?

By this age, James remembers that Nikki was very strong-willed, even a little stubborn. And as a busy working mom, Nancy was kind of at a loss with how to handle her sometimes. She'd already ran away a few times at this point. My mom had reached a point where she just how to handle her sometimes. She'd already ran away a few times at this point. My mom had reached a point where she just didn't tell her nothing. She just wanted her to stay home and be happy, and she just was putting band-aids on bullet

wounds, just trying to keep her happy in the moment, hoping that she would change on her own, you know? And James said that Nicky did change. In fact, something happened on that camping trip that changed the course of his sister's life forever. James said that the day Nikki got back from the trip, she just seemed off. He asked her what was going on, and she ended up telling her younger brother that while they were in the mountains, she and Joel used heroin.

And that was the first time they hung out, you know, like for real. And as a grown ass man, he did that to a 16-year-old girl, and she never came back. James and their older sister Adrienne said that from then on, Joel and Nikki were both struggling with substance use disorders. They started spending more and more time together, and it wasn't long before Nikki found out she was pregnant. Her siblings said that even though she was so young, Nikki was beyond excited to be a

mom. She ended up going to a treatment center and came out hopeful for her future with her baby. And she had big dreams of a white picket fence life with her new little family. So when Joel decided to move to Utah to work on a construction project with his dad, Nikki wanted to go with him. James and Adrian said that their family literally begged Nikki not to move away. But as anyone who was once a teenage girl will tell you, when someone says you can't do something, especially something involving the boy you love, you're going to do it anyway. So Nikki moved to Utah with Joel while she was pregnant

and her family said that once she was there, Nikki had patches of sobriety. And for a while, it seemed like she was on a good path, but it didn't last long. When her family came to visit at the birth of Nikki's daughter, Chloe, it was clear that Nikki was using heroin again. As Nikki and Joel both continued

to struggle with substance use, they were moving around quite a bit. They lived with Joel's parents for a few months when Chloe was a newborn, and they talked about checking into treatment centers, though it's unclear if they actually did. And then they had a little apartment of their own for a bit. But at some point when Chloe was still an infant, they moved out of that apartment

and started bouncing around between different extended stay motels in downtown Salt Lake City, which meant that getting in touch with Nikki had become pretty tricky. Her communication with her family was, I mean, unpredictable at best. It wasn't uncommon for them not to even know Nikki's phone number or where she was living. And when they did hear from her, it was only for one reason. Here's Nikki's older sister, Adrienne. Our conversations were just, she would ask for money, and then she would just hang up.

I mean, it was really bad at the end there. My last conversation with her, I called her to tell her I got engaged in December of 99 because we always talked about raising our kids together and being at each other's weddings and things. I was excited to tell her I was engaged, but she just wasn't my sister. She just asked for money. She just didn't care.

Nancy James and Adrienne had all kind of put their foot down at that point. They told Nikki that if she wanted to come home, they would buy her a ticket, but sending her money just wasn't an option anymore. And they figured that was why she stopped calling, because they weren't giving her what she wanted. Adrienne had what would end up being her last conversation with her little sister in January 2000, and she can still remember what she heard. She called from a motel because it came up on caller ID. It was a motel and it was harassing for help from me.

And there was just a man in the background yelling at her to hang up the phone and she wouldn't. I just remember he just kept yelling, like, hang up, get off the phone, hang up. And then the phone just clicked. Not long after that, the calls just stopped coming for everyone in the family. What they would come to learn about a year later

is that while moving from motel to motel, Child Protective Services had stepped in and decided baby Chloe wasn't safe anymore, living with her parents. She was taken into protective custody and placed into a foster home until her grandparents, Joel's mom and dad, came to get her. I think that once they took her baby from her and gave it to her grandparents, I think

that broke her. She didn't care anymore. She told us if she lost Chloe, that would be it. That would be the bottom. She wouldn't be able to get over that. When Nikki's family learned that Chloe had been taken away, it made even more sense that they hadn't heard from her in a while. They thought that maybe she was just distraught or even ashamed that she'd lost custody of

Chloe. Maybe she was back in treatment trying to get on track and regain custody. Or maybe she was just really mad at them for refusing to give her money. James and Adrian said they figured Nikki would just call them when she was ready to talk, or more likely when she needed something, like she always eventually did. But as more and more time ticked by,

and that call for money or to check in never came, there did come a point where Nikki's family became worried that something had happened to her, something bad. And that's when Nancy started trying to track her daughter down. She had no idea how to get a hold of Joel, who was as transient as Nikki had been, so she reached out to Nikki's friends. But even then, she really only knew the people Nikki had hung out with up in Washington, where they lived, so no one had seen her since she moved, which had been quite a while.

When she got really worried, Nancy hired a private investigator to try and locate Nikki, but they couldn't find her daughter either. In 2003, Nancy finally called to report Nikki missing in Midvale, Utah, which was the last place she knew her daughter and Joel to be living. She talked to the Midvale police again in 2004, in 2007, and in 2008, But it was as if her daughter had just disappeared. Adrienne said that as time went on, their family really didn't talk about Nikki's disappearance a whole lot.

They all thought about it, I mean, all the time. But it was kind of just this unspoken thing they all dealt with quietly, mostly because of how it affected Nancy. She was just always so sad. There was just always that missing place, you know, at the table. My poor mom just wasn't the same after that. It's heartbreaking because it never got easier.

You just always felt it, just something's always missing. You don't get over that. — After so many years, her searches for her daughter had been reduced to what she could do on the internet. But they never stopped. Year after year, she scrolled newspaper articles and nameless profiles. Until one day in 2011, that's when she saw her. It was just a digital reconstruction of a Jane Doe dubbed Salterre Sally by the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office. But Nancy knew it in her bones.

This was her daughter. And the more she learned about how and when this Jane Doe had been found, her heart broke. Salterre Sally's remains had been found by the Sheriff's office back in October of 2000 on the edge of the Great Salt Lake in Utah. Hunters had come across skeletal remains that were next to, but not in, what looked like the start of a shallow dug grave on a stretch of land where field met sand and briny water.

This was a place where the scent of salt was so heavy in the air and plant and animal life were a bit wild, but it wasn't exactly remote. The spot where these remains were found is about two miles east of an old resort called the Salterre Pavilion. It now acts as a concert venue called the Great Salterre. Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office Detective Ben Pender, who is now the lead investigator on this case,

took our reporters out to that area. And they were surprised to see that this place is not at all remote. The lake and the mountains are on one side, and the other is a heavily trafficked highway. In our audio recordings, you can hear the cars whizzing past as they looked out at the scene. And Detective Pender said that this road

was just as busy back in 2000. Now what was initially collected there was limited. Just 26 bones, including a skull, some wavy brown hair, a t-shirt, and a necklace. But it was testing they'd done on the hair and teeth that Nancy found so compelling. The hair revealed that this Jane Doe had likely been in the geographic area between Great Falls, Montana and Salt Lake City, Utah during the past 22 months. And then the hair testing and the teeth showed that she likely lived in the Pacific Northwest before that, just like Nikki. So Nancy reached out to the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office.

But according to her kids, this wasn't the first time she'd called them. And the first time hadn't gone very well. James and Adrienne couldn't remember what year Nancy first contacted police in Salt Lake, but they remembered that when she did, whoever she spoke to kind of just shut her down. They said it can't be her. That's what we always heard. It can't be her because of how long he said she'd been there.

We asked Detective Pender about those first calls from Nancy, and here's what he said. That very well could have been said to her by a detective at the time. I don't see anywhere where it says that or it's documented, but again, I'm not saying that it couldn't have happened. I hope it didn't. A mother's intuition kept Nancy pushing.

She would call again, and when she eventually reached Detective Todd Park, she was prepared to convince him of what she knew to be true. Along with the geographic connections to the Pacific Northwest and Utah, Nancy also knew that Nikki often wore a large white t-shirt, just like the t-shirt that had been found near the shallow grave. But Nikki's brother James said that the other piece of evidence found, that one was really important to their mom. The picture in the drawing is like literally

of the choker she used to own. It's like, did they get a picture of the actual choker that they found? That damn choker, I think, is what really set my mom off on it. When Nancy ran through all these similarities with Detective Park, it had been 11 years since Salter Sally's remains were found, and nearly eight years since Nancy had first reported her daughter missing.

The park saw it too. He asked her if she'd be willing to provide a DNA swap, and right away, Nancy said yes. She went to her local police precinct to give a DNA swap, knowing that the last thread of hope was about to be severed if she was right. And she was. In July 2012, detectives went to Washington to tell Nancy that the DNA sample she gave was a match to Salter Sally.

To this day, Adrienne can still vividly remember the moment that her mom broke the news to her. I was actually in Vegas in a friend's wedding. Mom found out a couple days before, but didn't want to tell me while I was gone. So I had just got back from Vegas and went straight to her house. I had had a dream the night before,

and I told her it was a strange dream that there was a box on my front step, like a was mailed to me. And I opened, and it was just a box of bones, which was strange. I didn't understand what that meant. You know, it was just a weird dream. And I walked in her house,

and she just hugged me really long. I was like, what's going on? And then she told me that it was Nikki, that they had told her that it was Nikki. And we just hugged and cried in her living room. Our reporters talk to Nikki's daughter, Chloe, who's now 26 years old. And she remembers the moment that she learned the news too.

I was still pretty young and nobody even sat me down and told me I found an article about it online. Chloe was only 11 when she read that article, and she said she remembers crying and yelling at her grandfather, asking why no one told her. I mean, she knows now that no one really knows how to break that news to an 11-year-old and that there were even bigger feelings behind those tears. Like they did for her grandma, Nancy, the DNA results shattered Chloe's hope that someday she would have her mom back. And until that moment, there had always been this dream of a future with her mom in it.

I have a lot of dreams about finding her or just maybe what she looked like or what she acted like. So she was definitely kind of part of my world. It's not like I went around my early life not really thinking about her. I have a very vivid memory of being in like early elementary school, at school with my friends like sitting in the little field on the playground and I was like guys I'm packing up my stuff I'm

gonna run away I'm gonna go find my mom. I was like very dedicated to that for like a week I did not run away but I packed up my little like Barbie backpack and everything and I was like time to go. I don't know what I thought in everything, and I was like, time to go. I don't know what I thought in my mind, but I was like, I'm just gonna walk out, and I'm just gonna keep walking, and eventually, I'm gonna just find her. I guess when I was younger, before,

we found her remains and things like that, I think my only theory was maybe she's just still really going through stuff, and she doesn't wanna talk to people about it. So I thought, eventually she's just still like really going through stuff and she doesn't want to, you know, talk to people about it. So I thought, you know, eventually she'll just come back when she's done working through what she's working through. Nikki's entire family had to let go of their hope that Nikki would someday come home,

but they were able to bring her remains back to Washington a few weeks after they were told about the DNA match. In August 2012, Nikki's mom and siblings went to Utah to collect what was left of Nikki. And while they were there, a detective took them out to Salterre to visit the spot where Nikki's bones had been found. And Adrienne said being there and then bringing her home made the weight of it all really sink in, especially for their mom. My brother and I knew, I mean, most likely that she was gone, but she held on to that

hope. She said she had to keep that hope. So I think that then she just could breathe in a different way and for us to be able to bring home what was left of her was a big deal. It was a big deal for investigators, too. Because now that detectives had Nicky's name, they were able to start working backwards to figure out how Nicky ended up all alone at the edge of that lake. And they started with Nicky's on-and-off-again boyfriend, Chloe's father, Joel.

Investigators went to Washington to speak with Joel in August of 2012, the same month that Nicky's family had gone down to Utah. And in the 12 years since Nicky disappeared, Joel had racked up quite a long criminal record, mostly for things like theft and drug possession. He'd been in and out of jail a few times while Chloe was being raised by his parents, and he was actually incarcerated when detectives first sat down with them. Detective Pender said Joel cooperated, but there was one problem. They still don't know exactly when Nicky died,

so they really couldn't pinpoint when they needed Joel to account for his time. And even if they did know, it had been 12 years, so could they really expect him to remember exactly where he was? What Joel could tell detectives was that the last time he saw Nikki was on New Year's Eve 1999, so about nine months before her body was found. He told police that he and Nikki had partied that night, and he said that while he was in recovery for his substance use at the time, Nicky apparently wasn't. He indicated they got into a bit of an argument due to the drugs.

And he had actually took Nicky's backpack and put it outside the door and told her to come back when she was clean. So she left and apparently the cops had showed up as well. She had taken off and was walking up the street. And when the cops got there, he just informed them that she had left and that they had an argument and there was no other issues. Joel told detectives that about a half an hour after Nikki left, she called and told him

that she'd talked to her mom and she was trying to get money to get a U-Haul to drive back home. This is something that Nikki's family told us she was known to do. She'd call home, ask for money for something's family told us she was known to do. She'd call home, ask for money for something like a rental or a plane ticket to come home, but that money would just disappear and Nikki wouldn't actually go back to Washington. Joel said that Nikki called him one more time that night, but he didn't answer.

After that, he said he never saw or heard from her again. But his father, Sonny, did. Our reporters actually got in touch with Sonny, and while he still couldn't remember exactly when he saw Nikki, he said he thinks he was the last person in the family to see her. He was able to narrow down the timeline a little bit based on the construction work

that was being done in the area back then. You see, Sonny worked in construction for a long time. He's actually still working now at 84 years old. And when he ran into Nicky, he was working on a highway building project being done in preparation for the city to host the 2002 Winter Olympic Games. He said he remembered it being dusty outside from construction when he saw Nicky at the Flying J truck stop, and that based on where the road J truck stop, and that, based

on where the road had been built to by then, it was likely sometime in the late spring or maybe early summer of 2000. He said he interacted with her, he bought her lunch, and then they sat and talked for about 30 minutes, and he said that Nikki seemed like she was in recovery and that she was talking about going to school. Sonny said he also spotted Nikki at a gas station in downtown Salt Lake City around that time. He said he saw her talking to a man in a work truck

that had some sort of signage on it for a temporary fencing company. Another thing that was common during the prep for the Olympics. But he said he didn't get a good look at the guy. Again, Sonny couldn't say exactly when this was, but he does know it was before September 2000. He remembers that month vividly because that was when he, his wife, and Chloe moved to Wisconsin to be closer to his wife's family. But shortly before they moved, he said they got a visitor.

Sonny told our reporter Taylor that sometime after those sightings of Nicky, he saw a man drive by his house a few times. Eventually, he said the man stopped and knocked on his door. The man was married, apparently, and Sonny said that this guy told him that he'd kind of been taking Nikki like under his wing, and he asked if Nikki was living there.

When Sonny told him no, that she hadn't lived there in quite a while, the guy kind of like pushed back. Sunny said he actually had to get a little short with the guy, who didn't seem to believe that Nicky wasn't there. Now eventually, the guy left, but Sunny said he saw him drive by a few more times. He said he never talked to him again, and unfortunately he couldn't tell police much more about the guy.

Sunny gave all this same information to detectives back in the day, and they did try to track this guy down, who'd knocked on the guy. Sonny gave all this same information to detectives back in the day, and they did try to track this guy down who'd knocked on the door. They even tried to track down the man Nicky was talking to in the fencing truck. But without much information to go off of, they didn't get very far. So investigators were left to chase down other new leads and revisit old ones. In 2018, Detective Pender flew to Washington to meet with Joel again. He said Joel was cooperative, but to this day, he still feels like Joel may know more than he's letting on. At this point, he's still somebody definitely on our radar, somebody who we believe that

may have more information than he has provided. Apparently, Nicky's mom, Nancy, always thought that too. Adrienne said her mom always thought Joel knew something, and she died having questions for him that now she'll never get the answer to. Chloe, Joel and Nikki's daughter, isn't sure what to think. Her relationship with her dad has been kind of on and off over the years, but she actually tried to call him after we reached out to her to see if he would talk about the case with her. He didn't return her call, so she told us about the conversations she'd had with him about her mom in the past.

she told us about the conversation she'd had with him about her mom in the past. I'm sure I asked him some things. And I won't say that he was not open. I think if I really got in there, he might have told me some things. I'm sure someone in some part of my family or friends or something has probably blamed him at one point. Whether or not he was involved, I don't know. But as a significant other of Nicole, he's probably the first suspect.

So I'm sure someone has accused him of something at some point. So I never really felt like I wanted to bring it up with him specifically, but I wasn't sure how he felt. She said that although it's a hard thing to grapple with, she hopes anyone investigating her mom's case will look at every possible suspect, including her dad. Our reporters called Joel, but he didn't answer. And Detective Pender said that while they can't rule Joel out, they can't rule him in either. At this point, I don't have evidence to necessarily connect him. So Detective Pender and his team continue to work Nicky's case, and they're holding

out hope that new technology will someday make the little evidence they have more useful. We continue to look at other individuals, continue interviewing individuals out there that either knew Joel or Nikki or both, or may have some information about the case as well. So it's an ongoing investigation. It's something that's not stopped. We're not just idle waiting on technology to change. There's still other things that are being done in the case

that may also provide information at some point. He actually told us they do have some evidence that they're waiting to test and that they have the full support of their sheriff to access whatever new resources they need to to keep working the case. At this point, we know we have evidence. We just are limited on what we can and can't test currently, but we're constantly watching and monitoring that and the advancements and things that we can do. That evidence that you're hanging on to to test is a DNA evidence?

I won't say at this point. What Detective Pender would say was that he believes whoever killed Nikki or whoever left her body by the lake was somebody who knew her. I don't think this is necessarily a stranger. I'm not going to 100% rule that out. He also thinks that it's possible that Nikki died of an overdose, and that whoever she was with left her out in Salterre rather than helping her or reporting her death. That's definitely a possibility where there was drug use involved and whoever she was

with at the time maybe panicked and instead of calling the authorities they decided to just abandon her out there to not have any involvement in the case. James also agrees with detective Pender that that's a possibility. I do believe that if Joel was involved that it was more likely an overdose and him dumping her. In my personal opinion I could just see him just actually just learned about that hole dug near Nicky's remains this year. For Adrienne, that brought forth new questions about what happened to her sister. Questions she's not sure she wants answered.

I don't want the answer to be somebody did something bad to her and that she suffered, because that won't bring me any peace. So do I want an answer? Yes. Something I can live with. I don't want the answer to be that she suffered. That's how her last moments were. Adrienne doesn't want the last few years of Nikki's life to be all that she's remembered for. I just feel when people hear drugs, they just kind of get a picture of who that person is. And that was just such a small part of her life. She was only doing drugs and that kind of stuff

the very end of her life. That's not who she was. I hate that that's how she's seen instead of the first 17 years. She always shocked at the goodwill. and she always was just like about nature, colored flower child, but she was very shy. She would go with the flow, just trying to make, you know, everybody happy. She was a creative. She was like definitely a hippie at heart.

We haven't even scratched the surface on what her spirit was like, the way she would light up a room and the power of her smile, or the power of her scowl if you're on the wrong side of it, or just the types of poems and pictures and dreams and conversations." Whoever's responsible, James and Adrienne are still hopeful that someone will come forward with information that will bring some sort of justice. Justice for their mom, who spent the rest of her life looking for answers. Justice for Chloe, who grew up without her mom.

And justice for Nikki, whose life was discarded just as it should have been starting. She wanted so badly. She just wanted to be a mom like her whole life. And she finally was. And she just couldn't be the mom she wanted to be a mom like her whole life. She finally was, and she just couldn't be the mom she wanted to be that made her sad. And I knew that, cause you know, in her little bits of clarity, every once in a while, she told us she was enrolling in school and she was getting a job and she was gonna be a good mom.

Adrian told our reporters that although everyone always says Nikki was 20 when she died, and that's even what we said earlier, no one can be sure that she even made it to her 20th birthday in August 2000. She may have been just 19. Now, as an adult who is older today than her mom ever got to be, Chloe said she still hopes someone will come forward to answer the questions that she's had her entire life. for me to, you know, have this for my mom's case or to get in contact. It's crazy to have any interest in our case just because it's been so long and there's just not a lot of information.

If I was gonna say anything to anybody that was around her at that time or does maybe know something, that, one, it's not too late to say something, and even just the slightest bit of information could mean so much. Like just knowing one thing of like she was staying at this place at this time or I actually spoke to her at this time. Anything like that, I could

like narrow down her whereabouts at that time, could give so much information. I would just want to tell them that it still matters what they know, and even if they're afraid to give information that they shouldn't be, that we just want to find out what happened to her and what her final days were like and get some answers. And if there really is somebody out there that actually did her harm and it wasn't any sort of mistake,

then any information that someone could give us could bring that person to justice. James said that whether or not he ever learns the name of the person who killed his sister or left her by that lake. He knows what he would say to them if he got the chance to talk to them, or if they're listening right now. What I believe in is the divine light and the everlasting consciousness, and that our energetic souls live forever, and that this this the greatest miracle of this little life that we're suffering through you know in all of its ups and downs the greatest miracle in this life is its death because we get to go home right so hey

thanks for giving my baby sister a quick ride home. I'm walking though. I'll see you soon." Investigators are still looking to talk to anyone who knew Nicky and Joel in early 2000. Or if anyone you know knew them or has any information about Nicky's death, please contact the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Detective Ben Pender at 385-468-9816 or you can email him bpender at saltlakecounty.gov. The Deck is an AudioChuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about The Deck and our advocacy work, visit thedeckpodcast.com. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?