The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 325 - Billy Sipple

Episode Date: April 25, 2018

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine the life of Billy Sipple. Recorded live in SF. SOURCESTOUR INFO MERCH BY JAMES FOSDIKE

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it quote is jam-packed. Jam-packed? I'm the fucking hippo guy. My name's Gary. My name's Gary. Wait. Is it for fun? And this is not gonna come to Tiggly Clot Guy. Okay. And a five-part coefficient. Now hit him with a puppy. You both present sick arguments. No sleep, no hippo. That's like no hippo. Actually, pardon me. Hi, Gary. No. Is he done, my friend? No. No. Roder. Roder in the corn. We have no idea where he went. I was backstage and then I walked out and then he, Gareth was just gone. I thought he was in front of me walking to the stage and then he was just gone. Yeah. We're doing a show? How many, how many have never heard the

podcast before? Just that guy? Oh, an A's fan. Fuck that. That's where the term fucking A's comes from. Yeah. Oh, you're listening to the dollop. Oh, that's right. This is a bi-racial American History podcast. Once a week, I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to my friend. Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. November 20th, 1941. The last episode of your hair was fucking racist. A lot of racism. This one is going to make you sad. Dude, I, oh my God, I can't believe the last one wasn't the sad one. Oh, no. This one's sad. All right, let me gear up. Oliver, Oliver Sipple was born in

Detroit, Michigan, to George and Ethel. Oliver Sipple? Mm-hmm. All right. We can't really think of the guy's name. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sorry, Dave. I found some of these names puzzling. Yeah. Are we fighting? I think we might. I don't know. I would vote one. George and Ethel had eight kids. Of course, as you have to. Yeah. Ethel was a devout Baptist. Sure. George was a pipe fitter. Of course, I was going to ask, but I assumed he was. Keep going. Oliver had a normal childhood and became a star, high school football player. Okay. Everything's fine. Everything's fine. Yeah, I've heard the routine, Anthony. And no, he's a great football player. He's very good looking.

He's attractive. American dream. American dream. Except he was dyslexic. Okay. And had a very hard time reading. You just made me look like an asshole. I did. Your tone even took a little sass. Wow, I can't believe how much of a dick you were to this. It was a dyslexic. Yeah, you had a reading disorder, Gareth. You jumped all over him. Good Lord. So Oliver dropped out of high school in the 11th grade. I would like to say I'm sorry to Oliver. Soon he left home and made his way to New York City and he moved into the West Village. Okay. He developed what was called a Roddy McDowell look. What exactly does that mean? Looks like Roddy McDowell. Okay. He did the hair and the clothes like Roddy McDowell.

Like maybe from a clockwork orange. He walked around with a white and cane. But Oliver was very unhappy. He was unhappy that he couldn't read well and that he dropped out of high school and he was unhappy that he was gay, something he could not tell his family. Oh, did you literally do a gulp take? Yep. The best in the business. He's the only guy hired a gulp. Audio was. In New York, Oliver's friends called him Billy. Sure. Yeah, that's simple. Yeah. But no, that's how you treat friends. You'll be Billy. We're all Billy. So now he's Billy. Billy met a guy named Joe Campbell. Is he Billy from now on? Yeah, we'll be calling him Billy. It's just chosen. He chose the name. I'm not going to fucking

call him Oliver if he's called himself Billy. Yeah, I'm not going to call a Billy Oliver. His friends called him Billy and he was like, okay, you made fun of his name right off the bat. So he fucking called himself Billy. Look, I'm in. I'm into the I'm into the address. No, I'm into it. I like it. Billy met a guy named Joe Campbell and the two fell in love. Joe was a friend of Andy Warhol in the and the inspiration for the sugar sugar plum fairy in Lou Reed's nineteen seventy two song walk on the wild side. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Joe recently ended a seven year relationship with a man named Harvey milk. Okay. Harvey was seen as a bit square for the West Village. You don't hear that too often. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting.

The three men often went out together and spent time in West Village gay bars. But New York's life and the New York life wasn't working for Billy and Joe, so they decided to move to Fort Lauderdale. Okay. You know what the name change I can get behind the city change I can't handle. It's a terrible idea. We'll be happy at Fort Lauderdale. No one said ever any people from Tampa have been like Fort Lauderdale. Could you imagine? Oh my God, the dream. That's just a dream. Forget it, kid. Yeah. Tampa bar and Tampa forever. I'm sneaking out and going to the big city Fort Lauderdale land of palm trees and strip clubs. I mean a few less strip clubs in Tampa. Oh yeah. You'll be back. Tampa boy. Tampon. But once

there, the two men couldn't find jobs. Milk wrote them letters telling them they weren't using their money wisely and to make better decisions. Love that guy. Always love that guy. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, hope you're well. Bye. You're fucking up. Quote, no one is going to hold your hands any longer, but Harvey Milk still did. He kept sending them money whenever they were desperate. Here's my hand. Billy and Joe ran out of money in 1965 and Harvey Milk flew down and gave them money to pay their rent. But the couple did you have to fly there to do it? This? I don't know how money worked back then. But look, the president doesn't understand the post office work. So it's yeah, that's true. I

guess. You had to physically you would have to put in an envelope and send it in a check form back then. Right. Sounds a little easier than a flight. It costs the same. I think Harvey just wanted to see Fort Lauderdale. I think so. Oh, it is garbage. Okay. But the couple wouldn't make it much longer. One day, Billy grabbed the few things he owned and left and flew home to Detroit. Distraught and abandoned Joe went to New York and tried to kill himself. Shit. Yeah. Well, you try to have Billy walk out on you and see how it works. Now, Harvey Milk was confused that Joe would try to kill himself, kill himself over a guy like Billy, who milk thought wasn't very bright. So now Billy's back in Detroit

and he doesn't have a high school degree and he can't read very well. And there was a war happening in Vietnam. So he's like, I should do that. So he enlisted in the Marines. Is anybody advising him in anything? You know, at Fort Lauderdale, it didn't work out. I think I'll join the Marines. I, uh, yeah, I think war's the answer. It's the same thing, kind of. Yeah. What happens after war? I think I'm gonna move to the sun. I'll live there for a little while. Just get shot up there in a rocket camp out for a while. Make a year of it. Yeah. So in June 1968, he was sent to Vietnam. During a battle in a village, he was wounded by shrapnel and he ended up in a hospital in Saigon for a few months. Okay.

But the hospital was bombed and Billy suffered more injuries. I really do feel security in a hospital like maybe not for your health, but that like you're not like if you're there for a wound, you won't get a bigger wound. Just not on the radar as possible. So then he was classified as fully disabled. And besides his physical injuries, he had what was called a shell shock in England during World War I or what we now call PTSD. During Vietnam, it was just a psychological injury. So, uh, he was discharged with a full disability pension in 1970. Um, so at this point, not sure what happened. He probably went back to Detroit. He can't find any records on him. Um, so now let's discuss what it was like to be a gay

man in the sixties. Oh yeah, I'm sure this will be early seventies in America. Pretty great. Pretty great. Pretty great. Okay. Pretty great. Talk about fucking live in the gilded life like fucking sweet. Mental health professionals considered homosexuality. That's a good start. As far as the acceptance rate. Yep. Uh, they considered homosexuality to be a mental illness. Sure. It was listed by the American Psychiatric Association in their, uh, the DSM, uh, as much until 1973. In the fifties and early sixties, men were so disturbed by their actions to other men, uh, attractions to other men and actions, I assume. Hello. Hello. Uh, that they would seek psychological help. It was illegal to serve gays, alcohol and New York

until 1966. Oh my God. What the fuck? Well, if you serve from alcohol, then they start fucking or whatever. Yeah, for sure. I'm going to give you a shot, Jimmy. Uh-huh. But if I give you a shot, you got a promise not to fuck any other guys. I won't fuck any guys. No, I just want a shot. Here. Okay. I'm going to go get a dick. God, damn it. What? That's why it's illegal. What? You knew what happened if you give me a shot? Give me another one. I'll get rid of it. I'll be better if you give me another one. Here. Okay. Oh, I want your dick. No. Give me another one. I'll get better. Let's, let's, let's skate. All right. So obviously, uh, you know, sixties are the sixties. A lot of upheaval, social

upheaval. The LGBT community decided to fight back. And in 1969, the Stonewall Riots, obviously a huge moment. America's first pride parades were held in New York, LA and San Francisco in June 1970. And in New Orleans, the upstairs lounge was burned down on June 24th, 1973, killing 32 people. Someone had soaked the staircase leading to the bar in lighter fluid and set it on fire. It was the deadliest attack on LGBT people in US history and the biggest fire death toll in New Orleans history. So New Orleans has their biggest fire ever. Not much to be said about it. Churches turned away the dead for funeral services. Some families did not even claim the dead. No government officials made mention of the fire. The mayor

said nothing. The governor said nothing. It was like it never happened. One Reverend agreed to hold a small prayer service for the victims and 80 people attended. Then the Episcopal Bishop of New Orleans rebuked the Reverend for hosting the service. He got over a hundred complaints from parishioners. His mailbox filled with hate mail, editorials and talk radio mocked the victims. There were jokes like, oh Jesus Christ, Dave, can I have a second? Let me. Where do you bury the ashes in the fruit jar on the radio? Yeah, America's good. No police investigation. So they just were like, man, never happened. Basically, even though a guy had gotten into a fight in the bar and left after yelling, I'm going

to burn this place down. Then knew who the guy was and they never investigated. Did he say anything telling at any point? Lead anyone to suspect him of anything? Were there any tells, I guess? No. I mean, it's truly a mystery what happened. Right. Okay. Well, you know, they happened. They made a show about them. So the life of a gay man, the life of a gay man was basically considered nothing by society. So gays began to fight for the rights and demand basic decency. This is when Billy simple moved to San Francisco. And there was a growing LGBT community. He may also move there because Harvey milk had moved there the year before. Okay. The city was one of the few places in the world where someone like Billy could feel

comfortable, a place where he could go to a doctor's office. Most of the patients in the waiting room would be gay. A friend said, quote, he was perfectly open about his sexual orientation and would tell anybody who asked that he was a gay man, but he never told his family. Bummer. With his military pension, he lived decently in a small apartment. He shared with a merchant Marine in the tenderloin. As a lot of us did back then. Get yourself a merchant Marine, get yourself a sweet place in the loin. Well, you just said your college roommate was at the show before this. Was he a merchant Marine? Yep, sure. We all, didn't we all have a merchant Marine roommate? Yeah. No,

that's what they do on the tour. They'd be like, obviously it is a walk in closet radiator. Merchant Marine right there. Hi, Barry. Eddie's. Thank you, sir. I look forward to you signing the lease, sir. All right. At ease, boys. I'm a little worried about the parking, though. Is there street parking or is there gated? I'm talking to you, Marine. Is there any sort of parking here? Prohibition to speak freely. Oh, yes, there's parking. Okay. Thank you. All right. Well, I'll figure it out. See you later. Billy earned extra money as a swamper in gay bars. A swamper? You bet. Talk to me, Dave. A swamper is a person who cleans up at the end of the night, cleans up the bar. Okay. Right. Right. Yeah. He worked at the

cockpit. A bar in the tenor. Sort of an aviation themed. Yep. Aviation themed. Yep. Copilot's on the landing gear again. The cockpit was managed by a drag queen named Sweet Lips. He also cleaned up at other bars like the Red Lantern and the Gangway. Okay. Gangway's still there. I used to live near the Jack Hammers. Jack Hammers still there. Jack Hammers my favorite name. He's in the Castro. I don't know. Cockpit's pretty good. Cockpit's pretty good. Cockpit's so obvious. I mean, I mean having, you know, it's a great aviator bar, you know. So Billy drank. Of course. And he drank a lot. What would he not? Yeah. Friend Wayne Friday said. Wayne Friday. Yep. He's on the drag net. Because in here it's Friday.

Wayne. It's always Friday. Wayne. Quote. He was a good guy. He was just a fucking alcoholic. Well, that's what you want from the guy cleaning up your establishment at the end of the night. The drunkest guy like mopping around. Just drinking the mat. Yeah. Yeah. Just like mopping the floors. He pukes on the other side. Get him a swapper. Billy, Billy, Billy, Billy, Billy. Billy, no. I used to be named Oliver. What? I was Oliver once. What the hell is he talking about? Fort Lauderdale with flamingos. Fort Lauderdale. And Joe. I was Oliver before Fort Lauderdale. And as a Marine. Can I drink the mats now? Drink the mats, Oliver. Drinking the mats. Hey, I don't want to be weird, but can I drink the mats? That's the best thing

to do when you're going to a bar. What do you need, man? I was just wondering if I gave you $5. Can I drink the mat? Who are you here with? Nobody. I haven't talked to anybody. This is the first word I've said in five years. Can I get $5? Let me drink that mat. We'll keep your eye on that guy. That's the guy who tries to drink the mats. I'm a swapper. Oh, boy. On the next episode of Swamper. Let me guess. He drinks the mats. Yeah. He drinks the mats. All right. So quote. He was a good guy. He was just a fucking alcoholic. I mean, he'd get his disability check once a month and then he'd go down to one of the bars in the tenderloin. I swear to God, he'd spend the whole fucking check on everybody and he'd

get broke. He'd get broke the rest of the month. He just couldn't control himself and he was a little bit of a blowhard. You know, he'd get drunk and loud and he'd get tossed out of bars. He'd be drunker than hell at a bar and I'd drive him home. All right. So so what was the first line of what he said in his quote? He's a good guy. Okay. Just wanted to be working. Okay. A lot of little mini, mini sub points to that, though. He's a good guy, you know, but he'd get thrown out of every bar. I mean, he wouldn't shut up, but you know, he punched a lot of beer. He's a great guy. Yeah. He stabbed my friend. He's a good guy though. He's a great guy. A bit of a blowhard. Terrible cleaner. A bit of

a dick if I have memory serves. Yeah. So Harvey Milk ran for supervisor and Billy helped the campaign handing out literature, helping with voting registration and other stuff. But Billy didn't really appear all that interested in Milk's issues and didn't seem to have a passion for gay politics. Okay. Well, that's probably going to affect his spirit in the campaign. Yeah. He was more of a guy who wanted to help out his old friend, but Milk's projects became the center of Billy's social life. Billy joined the imperial court system. So it's a proceed. It's a gay. It's a gay organization that helps the community and raises money for charitable causes. Okay. Lots of dressing up each year. An emperor's crown. Sure. As

is the history, the law. We found a new emperor. Billy was pretty heavily involved, but Billy was still having a hard time due to the war. Loud noises made him nervous. Oh boy. If someone brought up Vietnam, he'd get anxious. Quote, I don't think I could handle it every day. I'd be fine for a while. Then somebody might say something to me and boom. Then he'd disappear to the VA hospital to get treatment. He'd spend every fourth of July there away from the fireworks. Oh, shit. That's crazy. Yeah. I never thought about that, but that would make sense. Yes, that would make a lot of sense. I mean, I just, yeah, go ahead. He'd like to take, he'd like to take long walks around this city. And on September 22nd, 1975, lost and was embarrassed

about it. Yeah. On September 22nd, 1975, he left his apartment on the 700 block of Venice and headed to Fisherman's Wharf. At a post and Taylor intersection, he saw that a huge crowd of about 3000 people had gathered. He asked someone in the crowd what was going on and the person responded, quote, what's the matter with you stupid? Sorry, sir. Who are you? You're a fucking idiot. Okay. Wow. I don't think I'll ever talk to someone I don't know again. Okay, stupid. Fucking idiot. Starts with stupid. Yeah. What's the matter with you? Stupid. I have a question that an idiot won't answer. Walk. I'm walking. Okay, you fucking idiot. Stupid. Stupid wants to know what's happening. Someone else then told

them they were all waiting to see President Ford come out of the St. Francis Hotel. Okay. And Billy thought, quote, ah, you know, the guys from Michigan, I've never seen him in person. I thought I'll stick around, you know, so I can see him see what he looks like. Oh my God, he's quite a sight to behold. So it's worth it. I'm going to hang around to see Ford. Oh, he is literally the basic white man. I, uh, he is a what a white man. I picture him when they have someone says white man. Wow, that's Ford. Wow. He really is a nothing. I just realized looking at him that I've seen lots of pictures of him. He looks just like the Ford from the pictures. Yeah. He looks the same. Yeah. All right. I believe it. That's

Ford. The hell am I? So Billy starts working his way up to the crowd. Look at this guy. I'm really into this now. Well, he's from Michigan. I'm from Michigan. He's from Michigan. Okay. Got to get a look. Yeah. No, he's for sure. I should go. I could go meet Paul Ryan right now. I'm from Wisconsin. I would have a couple things to say to him. Yeah. He changed his smoke as he made his way through the crowd. It's definitely sounds like an assassination at one. At one point he's at one PM. He's very close to the front and he found himself standing next to Sarah Jane Moore Sarah quote. It was very crowded and there was a rope barrier. I was just like every other middle aged woman that was there. I was wearing slacks. Okay.

That was the beginning of when it was natural for women to wear slacks. Okay. Anyway, no, no, no. Sarah, we all want to talk to you. Do you work for slacks? I don't work for slacks. You're talking a lot about slacks. Women like slacks now. I am a slacks woman. Every woman there was wearing slacks. Every woman there was wearing slacks. Did you look behind you? I didn't need to because everyone was wearing slacks. You work for slacks. So welcome to slack town, motherfucker. Oh no. President Ford strangled by slacks. I felt a man press up against me and I spun around to slap his face. When I looked at him, I realized that it was just the crowd pressure and then he had not done anything out of the ordinary. So I turned back around and

went about my business. Okay. Let's get to some exciting stuff. Sarah, we've enjoyed the ride so far. The first act of the quote is dynamic, but where are we headed? Well, the man she bumped into was Billy simple. Okay. Sarah was five times divorced and had four kids. I've got it all. Three of her children have been adopted by her mother once delivered her nine year old boy. Her neighbors in the mission district said she had fits or rage and once locked herself in an office. Yeah. She had a hard time keeping a job and was active in civil rights and leftist causes. Alrighty. She was also an informant for the FBI. Interesting. That explains the slacks. Everyone wears them. It's normal. I don't work for the FBI. No, I'm just a regular lady wearing slacks like the rest of the

gals. Oh, a badge. Yeah, I might have a badge in my bag. Oh gosh, us girls and our slacks and our badges and our guns. Sarah was also friends with people who were close to the Symbionnes liberation army who had kidnapped Patty Hearst. Sure. Sure. Sure. Now Patty had just the trial was happening for Patty at this point. But Sarah decided she had to make a break with the FBI to bolster her radical credentials. So she's her plan. Does she have a five year plan to do everything? She pushed for newspaper interviews to tell her story in which she admitted she was an FBI informant informant. Uh huh. And then the FBI cut her loose because she told her when she was an informant. No, they don't like

that and all the all the lefty radical groups now knew she was a snitch. Yeah. And what was her plan? I want to make nobody like me at the local lefty coffee shop hangout. They started calling her the FBI lady. My nightmare. I need to buy a dress. That'll solve all this. They don't like slaggy Sarah, but summer dress Sarah has a shot. Oh God, I was saying that out loud earlier in the year. Sarah had been evaluated by the secret servants, but the agents decided she was no dead danger to the president. The day before Ford came, she called up the San Francisco Police Department and said she was considering a test of the president's security system. Oh, what? Yeah, can you give us this address real quick? We're just grab an address cross street. We fine. So the

cops brought her in and they took away her 44 caliber revolver and 113 rounds of ammunition. Regular. That's just walking around bullets. Just all that is a little pocket ammo. And then the secret service came down and determined she was not a threat. Okay. So she might have actually been testing them. Excuse me, ma'am. Yes. We're not good at our jobs. That stands out. You're free to go. Can I take these two guns that aren't mine? Yeah. Thank you. She was released and she went to Danville and bought another gun. All right. USA. That's the best. They're taking a gun in America. Well, you're not allowed a gun. Oh, it's like taking a pencil away. I'll go get 100 more right now. No problem. At 3 30 Ford came out of the hotel and waved the crowd. Hey, I'm white.

I'm what's your picture? Oh my God, he looks so much wider in person. Look at him. I'm average. The day was September 22 1975, just 17 days after Lynette squeaky from had attempted to shoot President Ford. So naturally, they let him close to a giant crowd in San Francisco. Ford doesn't suffer from any PTSD. He's like, let's do it again. It can happen twice. You know what I think they should do? They should get on their hands and then they could sort of carry me out to the car. A crowd surf to the car. President Ford. So Billy was looking at Ford, but out of the corner of his eye, he saw a flash of metal. Sarah Jane was holding a 38. She later said she wondered if she'd have enough time to pick up her nine year old son from school after she after she shot the

president. Hi, honey. How was your day? Oh, oh, you're, oh, you're learning geometry. I shot the president. Woo. Mommy has issues. And it's all because of these pants. They're actually called slacks. I'm changing it up. Everybody's doing it. Anyway, I just went slacks on her arms. I walk around on all fours. My slack monster. I don't work for the FBI anymore. I'm a dog with slacks. The president's more red now than white. Sarah said Ford looked directly at her and waved. Hello. Oh, he's asking for it. He's asking for it. Quote, then I reached my right hand into my purse and pulled out my gun. I took aim right at Gerald Ford's head and shot, but Mr. Ford did not fall. After I fired the shot, he stopped cold and I did have time for a second shot, but I'd

never planned on a second shot. It's weird. That's a weird thing about when you're trying to kill someone. Yeah, you shoot and then you're like, fuck, what about plan B? What do I do now? Now, you need that time to sort of, I wish I had my 113 other bullets. Yeah. It's not a musket. Well, that's that. That's the end of that chapter. Billy Billy's right there and he yelled quote, that bitch has got a fucking gun. All right. Always one for a quote. All righty. That was right before she shot. She shoots and misses. She's about 40 yards away from Ford. So she just stood there. He was like, Whoa, yeah, he was freaked out because, you know, he's like this can't be happening again. It's just happened two weeks ago. So she aims again and then Billy dives

towards her and grabs her arm, which caused the next shot to go astray. So it flies off and it ricochets and hits John Ludwig, who's a 42 year old taxi driver. The bullet did not penetrate his skin. He said it was like being hit with a rock near his groin, which by the way I usually pay for, but this time it just came from out of fucking nowhere and I came like a race horse. It's hard to find where the wound is. Oh no. Was it good for you guys? Very specific. I would describe it as a rock hitting my groin. Is that good for everyone? Hey Ford, when are you coming back, man? Because this was awesome. I need a nap. Did Gerald Ford go out again after this? Probably. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't have, but yeah, never. No, you're right. So Secret Service,

they push forward into his limo and in seconds the they go straight to the fucking airport. They're like, go, go, go. We're late for the flight. Now Billy, Sarah Jane and Ludwig were all grabbed by the Secret Service. At first they thought Billy was a suspect and they were aggressively interrogating him, which is not great for a guy from Vietnam with PTSD. So he's quivering and freaking out and he's chain smoking. He did not have clear answers for why he was there because he clearly had no reason. He's from Michigan. I'm from Michigan. You guys get that, right? He's white and he sees white. White guy, right? This is when your Michigan-Michigan plan gets the smell test. It's like, so you wanted to go up that close out of nowhere because you

figured out he was from Michigan. Michigan. You said Michigan, right? Michigan. Right. Right? No. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's like a glove. And then in this part there's white guys. Down here there's white guys and then these guys go, hey, what do you like? And then this guy goes, I'm white. And then there's a president. Why are you wearing mittens? Oh, I usually have a clip. A clip. Yeah. Okay. That's what I thought. I'll put them in. Okay. So who invented mittens? Were mittens invented after gloves? Because if so, that's fucking crazy. Yeah. I agree. Who is bringing that idea to the party after gloves? You know, I think we're gonna be able to use our fingers a little too much. What if we just had one big

lump and then a thumb? Better, right? Shouldn't they get wet really easy too? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. The worst. Let's make them the worst. Yeah. So Billy just said he had wandered there. Which I guess just sounds nuts. Is that not a good... But after, after a while, the singing service understood what had happened and they became thankful of his actions. And Billy was very modest. They took down his information and he was let go. Billy said, quote, don't mention any of that stuff about me being in the Marines. He said that too. The secret service. Okay. Later, Jamie Gonzalez, who worked in the hotel garage said, quote, I didn't think a lady would

do something like that. Maybe someone else, but not a lady. But put it again, the ladies who weren't slack. So all fucking... Yeah. Like the whole thing's topsy-turvy. Yeah. It's hard to know what's going on at this point. Now ladies are shooting presidents. Yeah. Yeah. Slacked ones. I mean, it's very crazy. It's hard to wrap your head around. Afterwards, Billy went to a gay bar called the Red Lantern. He was the hero of the night and people kept buying him drinks. The news that a gay man had saved the president's life went throughout, spread throughout the Castro. Milk congratulated Billy on his feet. Joe had moved to San Francisco and he was at the bar too. Milk's political clear was based on the

premise that gays were the next group of Americans that need to be incorporated into mainstream America. And now he had a man who proved gays could be heroic. Yeah. Hold on. Yeah. You can't get clap happy a quarter of the way through the dollar. What? But I clapped for that person. Why did you get them away from me? Now, at the time, there happened to be a shitload of reporters in San Francisco because the police had just captured Patty Hearst. Okay. Who goes on to marry Chris Hardwick? That's right.

No one knew anything about Billy. Rumors swirled. Some said he was homeless. Others said he was an alcoholic. But it's all good rumor stuff. All right, he's homeless. No, he's not. He's just a crazy alcoholic now. Back in Detroit, Billy's brother George and his father worked at the Ford factory and their fellow workers congratulated the American hero and bought them drinks during workday breaks. I forgot about that. So back in the day, when you would just go get, you would just go drink at a bar on your break, just working on in cars. Oh, no. Eight headlights. I don't remember the last hour. What's the worst that

could happen? Oh, I mean, seriously, zoom. Oh, I had a hand. Oh my God. Who's buying me drinks? I got one hand. Martini's in an operating heavy machinery. I dropped a saw blade into Eric. What? We're shitfaced. What? We need a new Eric. And we're going to build one out of headlights. Better times though, right? Nope. So Harvey Milk decided that America should know that the man who saved President Ford was gay. Herb Cain was a gossip columnist who everyone in the city read every day. He'd had a con since nineteen thirty eight. He was a city institution. So milk tipped off her. Milk's advisors thought what he was doing was appalling, but milk did not care.

Quote, it shows that we do good things, not just all that kaka about molesting children and hanging out in bathrooms. I mean, if you say kaka in bathrooms, yeah, it doesn't work as well. No, yeah, you got to be careful. Yeah, kaka kaka. I'm a grownup. This is kaka. Two days after the attempt on Ford's life, Herb Cain wrote in his column, quote, one of the heroes of the day, Oliver Billy, the ex marine who grabbed Sarah Jane Moore's arm just as her gun was fired, and thereby may have saved the president's life was the center of midnight attention at the Red Lantern, a Golden Gate Avenue bar he favors. The Reverend Ray brochures, brochures, head of the Helping Hand Center and gay political Harvey Milk, who claim to be among Syple's close friends,

describe themselves as proud. Maybe this will help break the stereotype Syple is among the workers in Milk's campaign for soup. The day after King's column, George and his father went to work at the Ford factory. But Billy was now national news after a huge sensational LA Times story. The LA Times headline read, quote, man who saved Ford linked to gay group. Jesus Christ, nice. Good headline. Nice. Nice. Good time. I love link to. Yeah. Also, that made that that matters. Yeah, link to gay. So I think we have a Richard Jules situation on our hands over here. I'll be honest with you. Yeah. Well, I guess it, well, didn't happen, I guess. The backslaps were kind of mad at him now. Yeah. The backslaps of the factory were suddenly over. The other

Ford workers yelled at the Syples about their faggot Oliver and laughed at them. Billy's mother Ethel was now rejected by her friends at church. She had gotten from feeling amazing pride in her son to total confusion and disgust. The celebration had lasted three whole days for the family. Reporters were now camped on Ethel's front lawn and the neighbors were harassing her. They were like throwing rocks at her and shit like some crazy fucking medieval biblical times. Yeah, or Detroit. Yeah. I forgot what we were sorry. They said there was no way Billy could have been a game in Detroit actually. What rock tag you're it. I don't have an eye. None of us have eyes.

Her neighbor said there was no way he could have been a Marine. Billy's siblings started losing friends in response to the L. A. Times questions about his sexuality. Billy said quote. I don't think I have to answer that question. If I were homosexual or not doesn't make me less of a man. So milk also pushed another narrative. He said Billy had not been personally thanked by Ford because he was gay. Jesus Christ. Yeah. It's really stirring. He's working it. Yeah. This was an easy case to make because the year before the Air Force had kicked out Leonard Matlovich who was a had a bronze star in Purple Heart after admitting he was gay. Did you imagine a time when they didn't let gay people in the military so long ago?

This obviously wasn't a time of the Internet. A man could live openly gay in San Francisco and not even worry that his relatives would find out in Detroit. Right. Yeah. Billy lived in a gay neighborhood with another man. His name had appeared in gay publications like Databoy Pacific Coast Times and the Mail Express. Databoy's great. I love Databoy. I read Mail Express. It's good too. Yeah. Mail Express. Nice. M. A. L. E. Yep. Okay. You bet you're fucking right. Sorry. I believe there was a mix up. I wanted the one about how to label packages. Another mix up. No. I should be more clear. So Billy would tell anyone in San Francisco he was a gay man but he never said a word

about it to his family and he was actually a very private person. Now his family found out through the press that he was gay. The best way to find out. Yeah. Totally. On nobody's terms. That's the best way to do it. Well they used to have a page in the back who's gay in your town. Yeah. You would flip through it. Yeah. Yeah. You just take out an ad. It's the obituaries, weddings, who's gay. Okay. Billy held the press conference with a Baptist minister and his lawyer. John Wall. Who held they? Billy did. Okay. So now Billy's you know it's out there so he's trying to get it. Quote I want you to know that my mother told me today she can't walk out of her front door because of the press stories. The fucking the press conference is such a bummer because he's

dyslexic. So as he's reading he's not good in front of people obviously. Well this is also not just this is not giving a speech at a town hall. This is like coming out. So while he's reading his speech his lawyer has to keep reading the bigger words for him. My sexual orientation has nothing to do with saving the president's life just as the color of my eyes or my race has nothing to do with what happened in front of the St. Francis Hotel. Suddenly people across the country were referring to him as a gay hero. His mother and father said they loved him but they couldn't handle the new information. Both stopped talking to him and when Billy called his mother she would just hang up. That's why let the president die. I can't. Dave Dave. I can't stress this enough.

Not worth it. Not worth it. Not worth it. I think a take no one had. Let us let us see this through. She's been thinking about this a lot. You just have a Michigan buddy. That's all you have. Let's remember what brought us there. You got a Michigan brother. Michigan bells from the same state. Imagine. So what Billy was asked by journalists if he was gay he refused to respond. Then Billy sued Herb Kane the Chronicle and six other newspapers for invasion of privacy and asked for 15 million. Okay. Nice. Nice. Yeah. That's high. He alleged that quote the papers published private facts by disclosing that Sipple was homosexual in his personal and private sexual orientation. He said what the papers had done led to his family abandoning him.

I mean truly you cannot put a price tag on nothing you've directly done causing your mother to have rocks thrown at her and now she won't talk to you. So 15 mil seems cool. Can we can we do that but with my dad? How does that work? I don't think we can go for 15 mil. I think what we can do is go for two mil and a bunch of cigarettes. Can we just get can we just get to the part where people throw rocks at my dad? Again I think it has to be an organic thing. I really do. I don't think we can just kind of inflate and get I mean unless you and I want to go over there and throw some rocks at dad which I'm not saying no to at all. I'm like I'm open to anything right now. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. If you stoned your dad he said you an email. I'm sorry I haven't been in touch. Got stoned two

weeks ago. Threw me for a loop. So the Chronicle offered him a hundred thousand dollars to drop the lawsuit. Okay. His lawyer advised him not to take the settlement. Who's his lawyer? Who is his lawyer? Is he the host of the prices right? Go for what's in the box Bill. Door two. Door two. Do tour. Two. Keep pushing. Keep pushing. But he's obviously this is the second one. No deal. We want to see what's in case nine. It's just a dollar. He's just just like a vampire standing next to him. So but this is another person who's using him right for their own. He's just getting his name out there by taking this case. Yeah. Right. So he wants more of this. The lawsuit cost Billy friends in the gay community who thought it made him seem like he was ashamed of being gay.

Soon after Billy got a letter from President Ford. Meet me out back. I have feelings. I feel weird. You brought up some stuff. I'd be great if you wanted to do it in person. Want a drink? What is this? I'll meet you at the cockpit. It keeps saying I mean I don't mind the place but I did think it was aviation themed. So this is the cockpit huh. I wonder if I take my presidential shirt off. So this delighted Billy. Billy's very excited. He's the fucking Marine. He's a patriotic Michigan guy. It read quote. I want you to know how much I appreciated your selfless actions last Monday. Events were a shock to us all but you acted quickly and without fear for your own safety.

By doing so you helped to avert danger to me and others in the crowd. You have my heartfelt appreciation. Sincerely Jerry Ford. Billy sent a copy to milk with a note quote to Harvey a good friend. Oliver W. Sipple. He never spoke to milk about his role in outing him and it's very very possible. Billy never knew milk at any partner. Right. It kind of feel that's just the general vibe because he just goes right after all the papers without mentioning it. Yeah I don't think he had any idea who had done it particularly a friend. So but this is also Jerry Ford like being a good guy so he's seeing all the attacks and he's actually trying to do something and help help him out. Goes great. Harvey milk

was elected to the San Francisco Board of Supervisors in 1977 and then assassinated in 1978. We've all seen the movie. It's great because we get Feinstein. Billy went Oh someone's in pants lax. Billy went to Milk's funeral and sat in the area for his friends. Milk's friends were surprised by how much weight Billy had put on. That's always fun to hear. Well you're fat now huh Billy. Holy shit. Man. Hey big boy. Did you settle with donuts. What's going on over here Billy. Billy's mother died in 1979. There was a report that she said she never left her house again

after learning Billy was gay. Holy shit. That's a bit much. It might that might be true. Fucking drive to the mall. I mean Jesus Christ. I'm sorry. Four times. I'm out. I'm done. I know but zero fucking sympathy for someone who's like my son's game never leaving the house. Fuck off. If it's for that reason if it's from fear of rocks I'm a little more understanding. I think people I think people are through rocks for a few days. Oh sorry. You're right. She has rock PTSD. Billy started hitting the sauce really hard at this point. Wasn't he hitting the sauce really hard prior? Double down. Oh boy. Quote I have a lot of stress and I take it out on booze.

Okay. But is this about my dad and what happened? Did I flip scripts? He would he'd go into gay bars on Polk Street and complain to his friends about what Herb Kane had done. Quote I fought in Vietnam with the Marines and I got hurt and now I'll be remembered for just being a faggot. So it's good. Other times he would make up battlefield heroics and say he had been a colonel. Interesting. It's interesting the way trauma manifests itself with inside he inside yourself. I was in charge of it all. I'm Vietnamese. I fought on the other side. You believe that? Harvey Milk was my dad. Huh? Guess who shot the president? Me. I did. Squeaky From. So this is how his life went for a decade. Holy shit. And all that time his lawsuit made

its way through the courts. That $15 million lawsuit. But he didn't have much of a case. He was very open about being gay in San Francisco and that fact was known by hundreds of people in different cities and in 1984 the California Supreme Court decided against Billy in his lawsuit. The court also found that the outing did not constitute sensational prying but was motivated by legitimate political considerations, i.e. to dispel the false public opinion that gays were timid weak and unheroic figures. Okay. Both Billy and his lawyer were bitter about the decision. The lawyer's just like, you know, we should have taken that hundred grand. Jesus, why do you listen? You should have. I told you to take that. Our lives would have been set,

Billy. Damn it. Sorry, man. You told me not to take it. I don't remember it like that. No, you said don't take it. That's not how I remember it. That's what you said. That's not how I remember it. Those were your words. They're not a lot of... Again, only one of us has been drinking for a decade, so excuse me. But the way I remember it was I said to you, hundred grand, that sounds pretty good. And you said, I want the whole damn thing. And we went for it. This is like my blood. Oh boy. For those of you listening, Dave's drinking blood. What were we... What were we talking about? You owe me $15 million, man. Fuck. Yeah. Oh, you know what? I'll take a hundred. Okay. Thanks, man. Billy pays his debts.

So as lawyer said, Billy would have been better off if he let more kill Ford. Which, yes, thank you. I already said that. It's totally fucking true. It's like a tough thing for a Marine to have to hear, though. I know what you think, but man, wouldn't your life have been better if you let Ford die? You're like... What an awkward moment to realize that's the truth. Oh, shit. Yeah, when you're not getting $15 million. Yeah. Also, just to add a little spice to this, you should have done anything. All right, I have a $3.30, so you should probably get out of here. Tough break. Is Oliver... So after the lawsuit was over, Billy rapidly went downhill. He put on tons of weight, and now weighed close to 300 pounds. Okay. Tease, tease. He would go to

Queen Mary's pub on Church Street for the first of each month and use his veterans check to buy everyone a drink. He'd often spend his entire check on that one night, and for the rest of the month, his friends would loan him money. He even started borrowing money, which he would then give to AIDS charities. He always paid back the loans when he got his next check. One friend said, quote, I have watched him split his last $2, give $1 to someone who needed a meal, and use the rest to buy himself a drink. Wow. Wow, right. How do you get a drink for a buck? No, that's... Is that what you're thinking? That's what I'm thinking. No, I'm thinking how... Where is this bar? Cockpit Tuesdays, but...

I just think it's sweet that he bought the meal, but yeah, you can get it. Yep. In late January, he stopped by New Bell Saloon and looked quite ill. He told the bartender that he had been seen at the VA hospital, and they sent him home. But then no one saw him for a few days. On February 2nd, 1989, a friend went to his apartment and got the manager to let him in. Billy was dead. Holy shit. Sitting in a reclining chair in the living room, he was surrounded by empty cans of 7up and a bottle of Jack Daniels. The TV was still on. He had been dead for 10 days. Oh my God. That is... That is a sweet smell of siple.

Jesus Christ. That is so sad. Oh, no, it's a great story. Oliver, Siple was dead. 7up. 4up. You'd rather it be squirt. Yeah, like a little grapefruit flavor. Yeah, yeah. He was 47 years old. His friends were surprised to learn he was 47 because many thought he was in his 60s. Oh, Jesus, thank you. God, they bit their tongue on that one, and that boy you put on way. What are you, 70? He had even thrown himself a 59th birthday party. Well, Dave, they're allowed to think he's that old then. I mean, what? I didn't want to be rude. I'm 20.

I'm dying from booze. I'm sorry. I didn't... He thought he looked so old. He's like, fuck it, let's just do this. I'm 60 now. I mean, if you've lived a regular life, like, what are you, 130? Yeah, yeah, 130. 130 years old. So he had a funeral, and the man who had saved the president's life was attended by about 30 people. One of his brothers came from Michigan. Most of the attendees were reporters. Right. Hey, can I ask you where you're from? Michigan. Okay, Michigan. And how do you know Oliver? Wait, what is this? Do you work for the funeral? Why do you keep licking your pencil? Oh, I ate chicken for fried chicken before I came over.

It's just on my fingers. Go ahead. Okay. No, no, no, no. Oh my God. For those of you listening, Dave is looking at Instagram. The corner said he died of pneumonia and that at one point he had been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. His brother went through his belongings and took Billy's most prized possession that was framed on his wall, the letter from President Ford. His brother's given interviews with different newspapers, and the quotes about his family and Billy's views are sort of all over the place. So I decided after reading how everything was all over the place to just kind of take what he said with a grain of salt because it was so everywhere. Okay.

Joe Ford was asked in 2001 if gay people should be allowed to be married, quote, I don't see why they shouldn't. I think that is a proper goal at hell. I think they ought to be treated equally. Period. If only the Democratic presidential candidates had said that. Yeah. Yeah. 2008 we had two we had two Democratic candidates not saying that. Yeah. Joe Campbell died on October 2nd 2005 after battling AIDS. Ford died on December 26 2006. Someone shot him with slacks. He was shot with slacks. When a reporter went to interview George Sipple, his brother, in 2006 he has to see the letter and the brother went to retrieve it but couldn't find it. Oh, good. That's good. That's good. Yep. That's great. Sure. Yeah. Well, I thought I had it.

The most prized possession of my dead brother, but you want a Coke? Seven up. Seven up. It's too soon, guys. You're right. No, you guys are... Dave, Dave, hold on. Let me speak because I understand what everyone's upset about. Dave, he died with seven up around him. It's not okay for you to say seven up again during this. Period. No matter what the context, no. Sprite. Better. Better. Better. Oh, okay. I would like a Sprite. Sprite. No, you're being a dick about it again. No. It's up seven up. The reporter at that time also went to talk to another man who Ford had given a letter to. Ludwig, the guy hit with the bullet in the groin. Oh, what? He...

Yeah, this guy was doing a story on the people who had been around from the assassination attempt. Ludwig... He asked to meet... The Ludwig had asked to meet the president, but he was told there was no time, Ford had no time in his schedule. So he said, quote, to hell with the president, to the reporter, then the Secret Service to a reporter, then the Secret Service came and visited Ludwig because he had said to the hell with the president. Okay. Now, being an escapee from Nazi Germany, Ludwig was not too pleased about being visited from the Secret Service. Oh, shit. They overstepped. They were like, oh, you were what? Oh, sorry, we didn't get a letter. Get a letter from the president. Get him a letter. Or sorry,

get a letter. Get two of the letters from the back. So Ludwig sold his letter for $100. Oh, my God. What was his letter like? Sorry to hear about your dick. Pretty happy that it wasn't my head. I heard you came. Is that true? That's weird. Anyway, don't be a dick about this anymore. Dick, you see what I did there? I was making a little joke about how close it was to your dick. There's an arrow pointing. That's a callback, bitch. What the fuck? Callback. Gerald Ford. On December 31st, 2007, at age 77, Sarah Jane Moore was released from prison. She now agrees she should not have tried to kill Ford. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Sarah. All we wanted to learn was that you knew it was bad. I shouldn't have done it. Okay. She is glad

she did not succeed. Right. So it has a happy ending. Wait, that is a happy ending. Interesting wording as well. I'm glad I didn't succeed. Would you do it again? I'm glad it didn't work out. Would you try to shoot him again? I'm happy with the way it played out. So now the LA Times reporter who after her cane did his column broke the story and made it go nationwide, says after looking back, the LA Times reporter broke the story nationwide, said, quote, it is a source of a concern that will stay with me that I attempted to make Oliver Sipple a gay hero. Instead, I help a stranger from his mother. And if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't. By the way, more than a stranger from his mother, you destroyed their lives,

ruined his life. Yeah, ruined his life. That's her cane did not give two shits. Quote, it was a good item. Okay, Herb. Members of the gay community wanted it published to show they weren't all a bunch of wimps. So worth it that that guy's life was fucking ruined. So Herb could get a little piece in the paper. Yeah, cool. So that's fun. Great. Is that it? Yeah, that's it. It doesn't end well. No. No, the whole thing's a bummer. Yeah, it's a fucking bummer, man. I mean, I said that before I told people on the first show that the next one was gonna be a bummer. I mean, the first show I was like, this is the bummer one. You thought that was the bummer one?

Yeah, sorry, Dave, that I've been conditioned to think that when you try to keep all Chinese out of America that you're that's a letdown. I was like, show two, we're gonna have a little fun. Holy shit. God damn it. America. No, it's just terrible place. What do we do right? I'm starting to lose perspective on if anything right has happened here because of this podcast. Like, but at the same time, so the same time this guy's life was destroyed, life is better for gay people in America, right? Yes, but I mean, truly this guy's life is yeah, but we've learned this before like the baseball player for the Dodgers like so to get to where we are today, we get to where we are today, a bunch of people's lives had to be fucking destroyed to

be for people to fight for what they deserve, right? Yes, yes, that's how America works. And I guess my point is wouldn't it be great if we reached conclusions without death? I mean, I know we won't, you know, like we never will, but why do we live here still? Ask myself that every day. No, it's a great country. It's we're doing great. We totally don't mean the middle for a hug. We've clearly turned a corner and headed in the right direction now. Oh yeah, no. People tried to clap other people like I don't know what's going on. People like is there something wrong with America? No, that's good. No, no, it's good.

Well, Dave, let me ask you this. America 10 years from now. No. You didn't even know what I was going to actually ask, but you still answered it correctly. What do you think? What were you going to ask? What is it going to look like in 10 years? Split apart. In what way? There'll be different countries. America will be two countries or more. Well, I think that's enough for me. Holy shit. We got an exciting decade ahead of us, gang. We're going to quad it up. Just I want all I want is for California to break away. Yeah. Yeah. What is it? 12th largest economy? What is it? What? What six largest economy in the

fucking world? Six largest economy in the world. So fuck it. Let's do this. No, honestly, they don't want us. What we should do is we should just go. We should just go to everyone going, you guys don't like us, right? They'd be like, no, so we should leave. And they'll be like, what? They'd be like, fuck you. You guys don't like us. Do you like us? No. Okay. Can we go? No, but you guys don't like us, right? You keep saying we're all fucking shitheads. Yeah. You don't like us because you need proof. All right, you can do it, but take Texas. No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No mother fucker. No, we'll take Oregon and Washington You got to take Florida. No. No, no, no. I'm not taking any of those guys. Those are yours.

Delaware. Take Delaware. Come on. We've got nothing with it. Give it a shot. little Delaware, take it to the city, teach it something, make it good. What is it? It's just like a baby Nebraska, but shittier. You've listened to the dollop. Thank you guys very much for coming. We appreciate it. Next time, devotee potatoes. Thank you.