The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 375 - The Prince of Swindlers

Episode Date: April 30, 2019

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine Richard C. Flower, known as The Price of Swindlers. TOUR DATESSOURCES REDBUBBLE MERCH

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just it's not okay face guy lover of the eight team is a child Dave Anthony reads a story from American history to his Amigo. Gareth Reynolds who has no idea what the topic is gonna be about that's the best one you've done that's your that's your best work because it was really insane. It seemed pretty on the nose like I talked about things that are true. You bragged about having nipples in a face. Okay number one there are people out there without nipples and without faces so I'm putting out there that those are the things that I have also the 18 was good. All right well we can just start it I guess and called it

quote is jam-packed. Jam-packed? I'm the fucking hippo guy. Dave okay. My name's Gary. My name's Gary. Wait is it for fun? And this is not going to come to Tiggly Podcast. Okay. This is like head-on. I'm a five-part coefficient. Now hit him with the puppy. You both present sick arguments. No sleep though hippo. No sleep though hippo. Actually partner. Hi Gary. No. I sleep done my friend. No. No. Ronda. Ronda in the car. And that was you. The some of those parts in there. Yeah no no I know it's the intro. Yeah you have you have parts in the intro it's not just me. No I'm totally aware. What do you want to do? Dollar. Okay yeah. I wasn't sure what we were here for. Yeah it's been pretty clear. Um no. December 16th. 1849. Oh my lord. Jesus Christ. Yep. Richard C. Flower. Dick Flower. Dick Flower. Continue. Was born in Ohio. Raised on a farm. Father was a reverend. Okay. He left home at 13 to make his own way in the world. Sure. That's just how you did it. Yeah you're like look dad I found they got the hairs on the lower parts. It's really it really is has become normal to hear that now at this point on the show. Yeah and your parents are like

I get it you're 13. I was wondering when he was going to get off his ass and make some of it. Shouldn't you be working on a ship. I'm too. I remember when I had to go to the airport alone when I was like 13. Terrifying. I was like I can't handle this. Yeah. This I die here. Yeah and you did. And I died there. Yeah. Yeah I'm still there dad. Yeah that's the best part of our podcast. Yeah. So when he was 15 he he he become a well-known boy preacher in Indiana Ohio so he's one of those young preacher types that people are like look at this boy and his magic talking. Boy that is really crazy too. Totally. He entered Butler University studied medicine but instead of getting a degree there he got a totally

bullshit medical degree from a fraudulent Ohio medical school. Which was just as good. Yeah why not. I mean you could do that. I mean aside from actually getting education but you could just go to someone and be like can I be a doctor. And then be like yeah how much money do you have. This much money. Can I be a really good doctor. You're the best. You're a surgeon. Thank you so much. You're a surgeon. Oh my Lord. Yeah get in there. How does one do it. Crack it like an egg or do I just. You know what I'm the doctor. What am I asking you for. I'm the best brains. What is it. We had a guy that we gave a degree to and he just goes through the eye. Oh that's interesting. Yeah. That's I don't think I'm

going to do that. You can pop them out. I'm probably going to go top in. Top in is good. See what happens. I don't really care. I just want the money. I don't care either. I just want to be able to get out there and really start getting into some bodies and by any means possible. That's right. You're a doctor so getting into bodies. Great. You can also go through the chest to get to the brain. Boy there's a lot of great options. Yes. I am excited to spread the word so I'm just going to grab this degree put it up on my wall and all right. I'll see you later doctor. Thank you. Squire. No I'm not a squire. So after he gets the medical degree he goes back to the church and he was put in charge

of different parishes from 1869. Can I just sorry to jump in again. Can I just say that I already kind of like the combination of a young man of the cloth and faux doctor. I just see a lot of potential upside to Jesus sing our way. I mean have you heard about my new show preacher doctor. Oh yes. Because ABC is doing doctor preacher. That's right. Which I heard is great. That's the one to see. Yeah and then there's and then there's a spin off night time doctor preacher. Oh yeah. That night. Yeah preacher after dark doctor. Yes that's right. So he then decided to study law and he graduated from Northwest University with a law degree. Now if I if I there was a lot there's a lot of different

versions of this guy's story so I was trying to go on through them but it seems like it took a year. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So he kept preaching. He grew quite popular. He was quote a very convincing talker. Sure. Which you need to be right. Yeah. You're bringing people around. No if you're throwing a lot of bullshit out there you got to be convincing. Yeah. Yeah. It's like QVC for God. Yeah. That's right. You do. It was meant for me right. No. Pretty fucking pointed comment. You are just too sensitive. It's not there. But then he was accused of libel after he wrote a bunch of letters to a former parishioner. So I couldn't find out what was in the letters. They just said he was accused of libel and

actually was he went to court and lost the case. Okay. Because he's you know just guilty of letter libel. Yeah. It was when you did letters. I mean now it's now it's different but yeah back then it was either paper or letter. Right. What else are you going to do. So he's out. Lose the case. And now he's not in the church. Heads to Philadelphia. Takes up medicine. Okay. Though other doctors in town were not fans of his methods. Well because he didn't have any. Is that. Yeah. I think I think he was just kind of making shit up. Because his word totally manufactured and not based on. He was really I mean if anybody was winging it he was winging it. Like I'm not saying let's adhere to what the laws they

found of medicine in the 1800s. The best. Because they're not good. We should go back to those. We should not. As a matter of fact I'm opening up a new hospital called. Eighteen hundred. Eighteen hundred. Eighteen hundred's only medicine. Well here at eighteen forty three I'm going to open you up put a little dirt in you. Go in the back room. We're going to have a horse kick you in the tummy. All right. Now we're going to put beetles all over your face. It's a lot of bug eating. So he still has a successful practice despite that. Celebrities and stuff come to him. He's he's killing it. Celebrity. I don't know. I didn't they didn't go into who celebrities were. Got their pipe man. Yes. He's one of them.

But people know in Philadelphia. Because he's also a good talker. Right. He's a fucking he knows how to talk. Yeah. Commence people. That's what I've always found a better about a doctor. Those are the best doctors. But then he goes to Boston and he started working at the F.S. Shaw tanning and leather company. Sure. It was a very prosperous business before he got there and after it failed rather quickly. Okay. Pretty much everyone at the company and involved blamed Richard for the failure. But isn't he content at not really being a lawyer and not at all a doctor. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if he's looking. I would say that this is a gentleman who is not content and is always looking for a way to make more

money. Okay. His next next year for Peoria where he got involved in coal properties. People in coal situations in the ground. Sure. That and clean coal or this was the dirty one. This is dirty. Okay. Which is interesting. I'll bring that up. So that ended up with a flurry of lawsuits aimed at Richard and him running out of town. What were the lawsuits based on? Just shenanigans. Oh, he was going for shenanigans. Next came. This is interesting. So then he moves on. So he gets involved in coal. It learns a little bit of coal and then he goes somewhere and starts the Chemcom company. The Chemcom. Yep. K-E-M-K-O-M company. He runs it. He said the company had invented a compound to make coal burn more efficiently which would

get rid of the black smog in cities. Clean coal like he said. Yeah. The compound burned out the grates and boilers in which it was being used. Which meant it wasn't really a thing. And then the company folded and all the investors sued him. Okay. So it feels like a good amount of misfires so far and maybe not finding an occupation to land on. Is that safe to say? I mean, look, he's not. He's trying to find, he's going, he's swinging big. I mean, that's what he's doing. He's fucking swinging big everywhere he goes. Sure. The Chemcom company seems like it was bullshit. Okay. From the beginning. Okay. I was trying to bring up the pictures for you because I knew the pictures. Yeah. Where did they go?

Can you just say? I want to show you a picture of him. So that's him. Oh, wow. Okay. Yep. So he looks like every other guy in the 1800s. Yep. He looks a little squirrely. Yeah. As they all did back then. Hair combed a little bit too tight. Yeah. Little tiny glasses. I feel like those are the only glasses they had back then. There were not a lot of options for a lot of things. They're the little roundy ones. Yeah. Just what did you get? A shirt? I got one shirt. Same shirt? We all have one shirt. Hold on, I got to answer a text. What? My wife. It's about dinner next week. Look, you got to be able to multitask when you're doing a dollop. What? You know what I mean? No, I don't. So next week I'm going to start

exercising. I'm going to have an exercise bike in here. I'm going to exercise. Here during the show? Yeah. While I dollop, I'm going to be on the bike. I don't think that's a good idea. Well, get used to it because I'm teaching a spin class. Here? In three weeks, I'm going to start teaching a spin class in here. During the show? That's right. Wow. You know, maybe you should think about getting in shape. Thank you. And not crushing the dreams of people who are trying to get in shape. You're right. Yeah, I was a monster back there. I was a real Kim Kong. I didn't want to say it. Richard headed back to Boston. Good. He formed a couple of land companies for developing land projects. Sure. They both went under. Okay. Pretty quick.

He headed back to medical practice. I was going to say, that's where we, that's really where he went. He's going to shit. Yeah, I think he was the best at not being a doctor. He opened up the hotel flower, which was a sanatorium with a medium who was part of the cure process. Wow. Progressive. Yeah, yeah. I think every doctor should have a medium. In their hotel office. Yeah. Well, I mean, welcome to the hospital tell. I think a sanatorium is a little bit different than back then. I think people come and stay for a while and it's not, it's a place you check yourself into for health, right? Yeah. It's not like a hospital, hospital. Right. So it's kind of hotel. It eventually became the plaza,

that building. Well, they saw, they saw a different version. Yeah. So, you know, you go in and you're like, Hey, my, my leg feels weird. And he's like, Oh, you're crazy. Talk to the psychic. That's right. Talk to the psychic here. She doesn't think it's your actual leg. What is she? Your uncle killed your friend. Oh, I know. We're going to solve this right now. Wow. The Boston Globe quote, he refused to be bound by any system or code, which is the best. Like if you're looking for a doctor, you're like, I want someone that works outside the box. Who's a renegade? Someone who doesn't believe in what the books are telling him.

Other doctors attacked his methods. He would have to go to hearings in the legislature in Massachusetts to defend himself. He would, he would lecture frequently around Boston on health subjects. And during a couple of claimed he had found cures for cancer and consumption. Okay. So he's, he's, sounds like he's killing it. Well, literally, killing people probably. I mean, he's literally, as he said, he had his cure for cancer. He's fucking awesome. Well, it's just that I had to feel like that hasn't stuck. Really? Yeah. Because the clean cold didn't work or whatever. Yeah. Maybe you shouldn't shit on idea people. Well, okay. Sorry. How about, how about trying to let someone have a dream? You do. You give

someone that opportunity, but like once, maybe twice. On a trip to Texas, he was arrested for charges against him in Chicago for skipping out on investors. He was released on bail and that arrested for his part in the Peoria coal fiasco. Uh huh. A man claimed Richard had embezzled 300,000 from him in Peoria. Richard was then tried, but not convicted. Okay. He heads for New York. Good. The big city. Yeah. Let's do this. There he opened the flower medical company, which sold a new liquid cure that he called Sagwa. Okay. Get yourself some Sagwa and fix that eye. Oh, it's Sagwa's for the eye? Well, it's for all kinds of things. What, like what? What do you have? A question about Sagwa. Sagwa will fix that. So you're

going to prescribe me Sagwa to answer my question about what Sagwa is. That's right. All right. Texas everything. My baby's too hairy. Yeah, it'll get rid of the hair. I have another baby who's not hairy enough. Amazingly, that baby will get hair. I'm a man who would like a womanly bosoms. They are now yours. Sagwa helps you get bosoms. I want a leg to be where my arm is. Uh, Sagwa. Oh, I can do that in the back room. Sagwa was bottled and sold secure for any ailment. Rheumatism, arthritis, back pain, stomach ulcers, and most importantly, quote, spiritual and physical sag. Okay. So Sagwa is what? Just some water? Do you feel sag? Do you feel sag-ish? Do I have soul sag? Yeah. Do you have soul sag or do you have

physical sag? Like, are you feeling sag? No. Then you don't need it. Yeah. Although it would help bring back that spark in your eye. His electric actually had no medical value, no medicinal value at all. Sure. Uh, but it did, did have quite a bit of alcohol in it. Oh, that's good. Not a lot of people are complaining at first. Yeah, that is smart. This is good. This is good. I can't, my thing is better. My soul's never felt better. I'm not sagging. It does really well. He opens up an office on 34th Street. I mean, it literally does well because it's booze. Yeah, but also a cure stuff. Yeah, booze, cure stuff in the moment. A famous guy, I didn't put this in there, but some famous guy, either owner

or Tiffany's, or a board member of Tiffany's, said he came back from Europe and he had some affliction and he tried Sagwa and it fixed him. So there were people that were like... Yeah. I mean, the thing about these kind of things is you could have something that is a temporary malady, right? And then you drink the shit and you're like, I'm cure, I'm better. Yeah. No, it is the advantage of knowing nothing. Yeah. So he, this is the good years. He's living good, right? He's making money off of this. These are the good years? Yeah, he's living good. He's making money off of this. He's got an office on 34th Street, gets married. But word that his cure was bullshit got out

over time and he was starting to be attacked by the press as were kind of all snake oil salesmen. They're now being called quacks in times and on top of that, laws are starting to be proposed to regulate medicines. Okay. So that's bullshit. No. But the writing is on the wall. Interesting fact, they had less measles back then. Oh my God, are there measles now? There can't be measles because we came up with a vaccination. No, no, no. No, we eradicated and we got rid of it. No, no, no, no, dude. No, no, no. What are you talking about? There can't be measles. Dude, measles is back. It's awesome. It can't be because we all got... It's like Murphy Brown. We all got vaccinated. We all got vaccinated. No, some of us are like, let's not and then we'll

mingle around the regular population and then we'll give them all measles. Oh my God. It's so weird because my doctor does not have a medical degree, but she was a penthouse centerfold. So I usually just listen to what she says and she told me to not get vaccinated. Sounds like you're at a flower hospital. Bingo. And we're back. I actually lost a friend because of Jenny McCarthy because I said, she's a piece of shit. And he's like, she's a friend of mine. Okay. She's still a piece of shit. Don't go in her pool. Yeah. So the writing's on the wall, right? The snake oil business is going to be fucked pretty soon. The government's coming. So for decades, Richard had heard rumors of mineral deposits on the San Carlos Apache Reservation in Arizona.

The mineral deposits. Okay. Yeah. Sure. The minerals. And now the area was being opened up to mining. The Graham County Guardian. Oh boy, he's going to find some real bullshit. You okay, Aaron? You got a cold? No. Did you spill? You got allergies? You got a... It is a nightmare to be about to blow your nose out on a recorded show and be like, can we listen? There it is. There it is. You got to do the slow blow. Yeah. It was a slow blow. Or it's almost worse where you're like, nobody will know if I just go... It's always bad when a guy takes like four clean exes out of them. Yeah. Yeah. You're either about to get a cold or jerked off. So there's rumors about this Apache Reservation that it's

full of minerals. The Graham County Guardian paper had written quote, this is undoubtedly one of the richest pieces of mineral bearing earth in the Southwest. In 1877, the handbooked Arizona was published by Richard Hinton. Arizona Territory papers used journalists to publish their political agendas and writers were pressured to come up with exciting stories that were not at all accurate. Wow. Imagine. Other writers published books and pamphlets full of elaborate nonsense. Audi's people are reading about this. They can't get enough of the stories. So this mineral thing is just kind of set up by BS journalism, just... They're saying... Serving the state's business. Yeah. And... They want people to move out there.

An old fake Dr. Flower is like, huh, BS minerals, hey? I can get it. I've been bullshitting everybody about everything. I sold whiskey as an upper. So he... Yeah. I mean, they want people to move out because more people out there means more money. They want to get their hands on the Apache land and they keep telling people the fighting with the Apaches is waning. Like, it's just all bullshit stories to get people to move out. Oh, that's an interesting detail. Yeah. So the more they heard about the waning threat of Apaches, the more they wanted to head out and strike it rich. Hinton's handbook said it was a healthy climate for what were called lungers. Oh, the lungers. You mean the people with exceptional... The awesome lungs? Yeah. No,

they're the people with tuberculosis. Oh. Yeah, come on out if you're a lunger. What? The dry desert air is perfect for you. And you hear that and you're like, boy, I should go where all those people have TB and cough. Why lunger? Sorry, Ms. McCarthy. White's pushed Congress to remove the mining areas from within the boundaries of the Apache Reservation. Ranchers and prospectors illegally invaded the reservation and started staking claims. Okay. This here's my land. Now, I'm staking a claim. We actually own this. Right. Not anymore. I put up my four twigs around here and now it's mad. Yeah. I'm a fucking piece of shit. Who's got all this stuff? Because I said so. And a copper was found and there was enough coal

for the new railroad. And people said the mines could provide work for the Apaches, right? So they found coal. They're like, we can put the Apaches to work in the coal mines. And certainly any Apache would want to go deep in the tunnels to dig the shit out of the ground in exchange for cash. Right. That is, to them, natural. That's exactly how they were doing it. Most Native Americans dug the deepest of mines. Do we ever wonder why the Native Americans are upset with us showing up? Because sometimes I don't see the downside. It feels like we came here with barrels and barrels of delicious selfish capitalism. Yeah. And we just were like, share, share in the experience. I don't think there's anything better than whoever thought up money is the best.

Yeah. Because it's worked out great. Yeah. For government, it meant they would not have to feed the Apaches if the Apaches were working in coal mines. So it's a win-win for everybody. I don't understand. Well, so they're right now, they're on a reservation. They've given them shit land that they can't take care of themselves anymore, so they have to feed them. Right. And now here's a solution. Put them underground and get them black long and they can make a little bit of scratch. It's kind of a romantic story. It's a win-win. Yeah, everybody wins. Because at the end of this, they can buy a sweet car or whatever. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So in 1898, Congress restored the San Carlos mineral strip to the public domain. So they took this one strip

that is in the reservation that is full of minerals and they go, oh, that's not part of the reservation now. Remember how it was? It's not. Right. So this is just gerrymandering of... Yeah. Oh, we're going to take the thing that we gave you. Messed up the line. It's here now. The Graham County Guardian cheered Congress for their wonderful decision. The paper wrote that a government inspection had found that the land was, quote, rich in gold, silver, copper and coal. All of the things. Oh, those are the important things. This sounded like a great opportunity to Richard Flower. Unfortunately, Richard had never been to Arizona and knew absolutely nothing about mining. Yeah, but why would you feel like he would stop? Why would that be a problem for him?

No, I mean, he did doctor stuff and he had no idea what doctor stuff was. He knows what he's... This is the guy who invented sagua. And the... Kim Kim Kim. And Kim Kim Kim. So the word mazuma means money in Yiddish and he, his lawyer, came up with the Spenizuma mineral company. So they like took a look. They wanted to sound like mazuma a little bit and then... It should be terrible but complicated. Spenizuma. I don't know where that came from. Spenizuma? Spend of money. Spenizuma. Yeah, it's awful. It's not great. It's a bad indicator. Yeah. So the Spenizuma mineral company is born. It's one of those ones where he's probably saying it to people like, huh? Spenizuma? No, I don't really...

Right? Hey. Yeah. Spenizuma, right? Yeah, no. You're with me, right? I'm literally with you. You want to give up money, right? Because I said Spenizuma, you want to Spenizuma? We're gonna fucking do this. We're gonna do this. Me and you. No, I'm not. You're just the guy telling me a story. Spenizuma. No, I'm a goat herder. So that's my job. We're in New York City. Yeah. The move hasn't gone great. Goats aren't happy. So his medical office was quickly converted to the Spenizuma headquarters? Sure. Well, I mean, yeah, it's not like he's gonna miss it. Yeah. He can still practice medicine just as well. The office door now had the word gold on the front. That's important. No. That's important. He printed up gold bordered stock certificates in

$10 denominations. That should be about $100 today. So not a crazy amount of money. It's not, he's not just going for rich people. He's like, I can get, you know, the middle class and well, there's a really middle class. He's gonna sell these gold... $10 a share. Okay. And then you owe $10 a share in the Spenizuma mining company. Right, which is, as we all know, going to go great. Of course it is. Yeah. He starts making trips out to the Arizona territory. You're off Mike. You're off Mike. Oh, look at that. There's one. I wanted to buy that. And so I pulled up a certificate. What was it? What is it called? A stock certificate. And it's... I wanted to buy this at $1,500. So that you're coming to me now to see if I'll buy it for you? I think what I'm saying is we should get

in on this. But Dave, it just doesn't... I don't know. I mean, this is how long you think... Now, I trust you. You think it's the time to invest in Spenizuma? I just want the stock certificate to put on my wall. Do you think that we're gonna make some money out of Spenizuma? Yeah. I mean, we could. Why wouldn't we? All right. I'm in, man. All right. Awesome. So he starts making trips to Arizona territory several over the next few months. First time there, he made his way to the town of Geronimo, a bustling town with saloons, brothels, blacksmiths, and two Chinese restaurants. Wow. Okay. And it wasn't that interesting. But then you think about it and you think, of course, Chinese are coming over for work and building the railroads and whatnot. So of course,

there's Chinese restaurants in the West. Every single town... And the food's delicious. Yes. So... Richard hired two men, Alkalai Tom and Bill Duncan. Alkalai Tom? Alkalai. Alkalai Tom. It's just a classic Western name. Sure. Alkalai. 70% of men in the West were named Alkalai. Sure. Okay. They set out for the Black Rock region. Black Rock was not on the reservation or within the mineral strip boundary, but Richard did not care. Okay. So he's now invading to get his minerals. Well, he's heading to a place... I think he doesn't want... Can I tell you my fear? Yeah, go ahead. It's going to be dangerous. Why? I don't think he's thinking. No, it'll be fine. Okay.

Okay. So he sized up Tom, Alkalai Tom, as a snakey dude who was skilled in the ways of not legal stuff. Yeah. Which was true. His regular job was being a cattle wrestler. Keep going, man. No questions here. Bill Duncan was a tough cowboy type who had robbed a stage coach or two at his time and now was the hotel clerk and a hire... available as a hired hand. Okay. So a couple of good dudes. A couple of bros that are right. Good guys. As they wrote up to Black Rock, Duncan told Richard that the imposing rock was called Montezuma by the Apaches who guarded and he and Montezuma guarded over the area. So the rock... So that's the rock. So the rock is like a... And what you're saying is that... The guardian rock.

And what you're saying... Okay. And just the way you snuck that in is important. So essentially, he and two assholes are now going to what could be called God Rock to take it apart for their business. Don't take it apart. You don't want to take it apart. Well, they're going to be there probably collecting on land that has not been established as something they can legally be going to. Well, I mean, I think they can legally because it's not on the reservation and it's not... Okay....part of the middle strip. So really, you can just stake land out there. But Montezuma, probably important. Great pool. Sure. Richard took rock samples and shipped them back to New York.

He started buying any claim around Black Rock he could get his hands on. Okay. Now, Bill Duncan was like, everyone's tried this place. There's nothing here. But Richard hires surveyors, laborers, carpenters, and miners to work his claims. Okay. He spread more money around to forge relationships with other mine owners nearby. Okay. Then he hired a photographer to document the progress at the Spenezuma mining company camp. I feel like he's overspending. Workers laid out a town site which was called Spenezuma. Yeah. Jesus, get over it. Everyone got to work creating what was a completely... We're completely fake mines in a camp town. Okay.

Richard hopped a train back to New York where he put together a gold-bordered prospectus full of photos and amazing description promising investors instant riches. There's a firefest vibe. Except no one's blowing anybody for water. For water. Although this is Arizona, people could be blowing each other for water. But it's just all so propped up on all the things that seem important visually. But underneath, it feels like there's really no substance. Oh, there's not. It's just fucking garbage. It's a giant heap of garbage. Okay. How great would it be if firefest did another one?

Firefest too. You're talking about it at one point. I just keep rooting for that to happen. So the prospectus is sent out across the east and a little bit in the Midwest. Quote, running through the center of this property is a vein of ore one half mile in width and two miles in length. Okay. It's a pretty big vein. It's in a big ore vein. Yeah. Every foot of it rich in gold, copper, and silver. It is said this is the richest and largest continuous vein of ore, rich from the surface rock into the bowels of the earth, ever discovered in the world.

So this is now just another selling component of more sort of investment? Yep. Right. Okay. Yep. They're saying this is the biggest discovery of ore. And ore is great. Oh, that's the best. He spun another tale based on Duncan's story of Montezuma. Okay. He sped. He said Spena Zuma had been an actual guy.

What? This is just... What do you... What? Where do I lose you? Miles ago. And now Spena... Like he's in love with his... Like he's in love with this idea that nobody else in love with. That's a great name. Sounds like Montezuma. And now Spena Zuma is a guy. And now Spena Zuma is going to Montezuma? What do you mean Spena Zuma is going to Montezuma? There Montezuma is where Spena Zuma is going to be. Well, Spena Zuma... Montezuma is the name of the rock that's...

The patch he's called. But we don't even know if that's true. Like Duncan just could have just been talking shit. So here's the story. Spena Zuma is an actual guy. He is the son of legendary Aztec chief in Montezuma. Oh, Jesus. Spena Zuma had been the first person to discover the gold at Black Rock, but he's not interested in it. He doesn't care. He doesn't care. It's not his thing.

Okay. So it just sat there for years. It's just fucking sitting in this giant vein of ore. And tell a professor, a mining expert named T.A. Houchu... Ta Houchu? Yep. From Longhorn, Montana, spoke to an old Mexican man. Now the professor's not a real person and Longhorn, Montana doesn't exist.

But anyway, he talks to this... As the lore would have it. He talks to this old Mexican guy. Now, the old Mexican guy happens to be on his deathbed. Okay. So he's just spinning out truths. Yeah, no, for sure. Just deepest secrets.

No, towards the end is where the logic really comes out. And for whatever reason, the professor's next to his bed. And the old Mexican guy tells Hatchu... So he just... Does this guy know him before or he just goes over there? We don't know. Okay. We don't know, we didn't get that, nobody into it. Okay.

So the old Mexican guy tells Houchu about the ore. And the Mexican man said the ore was under a rock formation that looked like Spenizuma's profile. What? Which is exactly what that looks like. Look, you can see the mouth and the eye and then he's got a really fucked up nose, but it's there. I mean, it's been in some fights, the nose has been in some fights. But that's the face of our dear Spenizuma. He said it was named Blackrock.

Richard buys full-page ads and newspapers with the story of Spenizuma and the rich vein of ore. He hires pitchmen to go around promoting... This is a firefest. This is. I think they are all firefest. I think that this thing has happened so many times in the history of the world. It's just another one. Yeah, but it's just like how shiny you make the bullshit is just...

Like if you spent some time not shining the bullshit, maybe there wouldn't be so much bullshit to shine. I mean, that's a good point. So these pitchmen would go to small towns. They tell the story. They use lanterns to show slides along with their sales pitch from the photos that the photographers take of the town made. The pictures were not of Richard's mines.

They were of other mines. But that's neither here nor there. The point is we know where these mines are. They're not ours. But once ours gets going, it'll be similar to this probably. So they're like, this is our mine and it's other people's mines. It's weird when you lie about something, like when it's your mine, you say it's mine. It's so fun.

I don't like doing this podcast with you. I'm happy here. One called himself, one of the pitchmen called himself H.B. Clifford and said he was the commissioner of Arizona. Ah, we all know that guy. I am the commissioner of Arizona. And the only one who has direct contact with Phoenix Batman. I made up a ridiculous name for my position.

I'm Constable of Tucson. I'm the mayor of Arizona. Quote, if you purchase mining stocks, buy those of big companies. And then he shows slides of the big companies of which Spena Zuma was always one. Uh-huh, okay. After he whispered to people, if they came to his hotel, he'd give him a hot tip. Oh. And the people would come to the hotel.

By the way, if someone tells you to come to their hotel for a hot tip. I've done it. It's not great. So it turns out the hot tip is Spena Zuma, a mining company. Yeah. It works. People buy stock. In every year, people have purchased over $3 million worth of stock.

Oh my God. Well, who needs a mine? You've made your money. It's like $30 million today. You've made your money. Yeah. The people from all over, the town of Trevoli, New York put their money together and bought 60,000 worth of stock.

The Spena Zuma mining company stock rose to $15 a share from 10 and then 12 and then 15. The dividend brought even more investors in. The Graham County Guardian got it on the action printing stories about the mining company. They were written by people who were actually at the mine, not the paper's writers. Right, okay. Actual people at the mine. Sure. It turns out they were all employees of Richard and the mining company.

Oh, okay. They just neglected to tell the paper that part. Okay. So one wrote, 35 men were working day and night, shifts at the mine, tons of wood and equipment was en route to build the mine. It was a big operation according to the article. Mine owners were planning on building an electrical plant, a mess hall and other structures, including a reading room for the miners.

Ah, yes. Which, as we know about mine owners, every mine owner has a reading room. Well, and they're also incapable of reading outside of a designated space. That's right. Because otherwise, you know, where are you going to read? It's hard to find a place to read a book. Here's a picture of the mine. Is that the real mine?

Oh, don't look at that. Don't look at that, don't look at that. Jesus. Oh, there's, yeah, this is actually, this is the actual mine. So these are photographs taken by the photographer. So they're doing something. Yeah, they're doing something. It doesn't sound like your heart's in it.

So the reading room was obviously, I assume, a big success. Sure, yeah. One long article a guy wrote about the building of a dry goods store, two saloons, and a quote, first class market. A coal market. Yeah, I mean, here's the thing about mine owners. They always had like a gelsons and then a reading room. All right, guys, get your Akai bowls.

I don't even know how you pronounce it. What was that? The ACIA bowls. People love those Akai, I can't remember how to pronounce it. I don't even know how to pronounce it. Acai, yeah, that's what it is. Oh, the acai berry thing. Yeah, I should call it Kai.

Acai, acai berry, yeah. The joke went well. So they basically opened up a zoo bars and a nice store box. The mine was gearing up to crank out 500 tons a day. So, oh, there's also great times happening, quote, a grand ball was given at this place last Thursday evening in the new millhouse. About 100...

It's starting to feel less like a mine. Sounds like Google now. About 150 people participated and enjoyed themselves immensely. It was the grandest social event in the history of the camp. Like, if you invested in this, wouldn't you be like, get to work? Yeah, get to work also. My money should not be going to a reading room or balls. Yeah, and why are there 150 people at whatever?

The whole thing's... Oh, you're going to love it. We're going to be playing horseshoes and bocce ball. We have a barbecue every day. The corn... Cornhole. Cornhole. Cornhole.

We're playing cornhole. Can we get a cornhole? We can absolutely get a cornhole. We can do whatever we want. I would like to work at the mine. The mine is great. We have four pieces of wood set up and one of those little trolleys. My mom, when I was growing up...

Here's the great thing about our mine, too. We don't mine. We just party. Yeah, it's great. Oh my god, that's the kind of mine I've been looking for. Yeah, no. Where there's just parties in a reading room? Yeah, there's a reading room.

I love that, I love that room. Yeah, we just party here. We just party. Oh my god, this is why I've always been like, I want to be a miner. By the way, some people have been jerking off in the reading room and not reading. But that's just the side effect of designating a space for something that could be done anywhere. Actually, the exact kind of reading room I'm looking for. That's awesome, because I didn't want to straight up say it.

But we've changed the reading room. Now it's just the jackspot. See, I want to make movies which aren't... A thing and all. Yeah, but I've had the same dream. I've wanted to make movies. But my idea of a movie is that I stand in front of people and I masturbate. I'll tell you what, as a guy who also shares a love of future cinema,

which again is not a thing yet. So it's even hard to fathom us having this conversation. I love the idea. But I want to stand in front of people and masturbate and say, wait, think about it, this was on a screen. Yeah. No, it's almost like you could be a comedian. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, anyway. Pipe dreams. So Richard put together a board of directors made up of some buddies and fake people. Sure, fake people are great for the board. The fake board went on a not-real trip to Spinozuma to inspect the mining operation.

Well, good, because you want to be sure that everything's up to standards. Well, they came back with a fantastic report. Oh, from the trip they didn't take? Yeah. Okay, great. Quote, a few months ago, this camp was the center of the vastness of the wild, uninhabitable country. Today, it is a city of white tents.

Good. If there was ever a spot on earth, especially for a great mining camp, it is this Spinozuma Valley. We found this great mining property richer, greater, and more valuable than ever claimed by the company in their prospectus. You can dig anywhere for two or three feet and expose a rich body of ore. So money should be coming back to people pretty quickly at this rate. Yeah, it's going to come.

I mean, you literally walk around on just wherever you dig. Hey, do me a favor, find a place where there's not ore. Thank you. I mean, we just want to make a well. Yeah, lord. The board then said the mines were worth at least $24 a ton. Oh. So that's like double in the price.

And that would soon rise to 150 per ton once the operation was really going. Boy, so the bullshit is really. Oh, the bullshit is crazy. Really. It's a valuable time to be in the bullshit. Yeah. Apparently, this was still not enough for Richard. To publicize it further, Richard arranged to have a select group of potential investors

visit the mine. Okay. These are all prominent men. And if the trip worked out, he would issue another $10 million worth of stock. God. So they took several trains to Arizona. There is a mine, though. Well, there's the, I mean, he has gone about building out his claim.

So they have dug holes in the ground. That's not a yes. There's holes in the ground. Okay. I mean, they're deep holes, but they're not mine. Yeah, but it's not. Like a mine is an extensive thing. But everything is bullshit.

Yeah. Okay. They booked several trains to Arizona. Then they take care just for the last leg. Richard promised a break on the fare. $80 a trip. That's nice. That's great.

When they arrived in Geronimo, Apaches, Teamsters, and Prospectors all came out to greet the Easterners. Excuse me. You said we'd be having lobster tails for lunch. These are just bologna sandwiches. What is this? Shit. What? Is that jaw rule? Yes.

Two waiting fancy coaches then took them from the town to Black Rock. Okay. As they're riding, Richard, so Richard's up front with the driver. Sure. And he stands up and yells, hold up. And then he shot toward a rock pile near the road. But everyone was very confused and alarmed. And then there's nothing there.

It turns out Richard had set up two henchmen to pretend to try to rob the carriage, but the guys weren't there. Oh my God. And he had to tell the investors that he had seen a coyote, and that's what he had shot at. I don't know why he yelled hold up. Well, because coyotes respect commands. Oh my God. So wait, he'd hired two guys to stage a robbery. A fake robbery.

And before they, because the guys didn't show up, he was just playing his part. But he knew where they were supposed to be, yeah. And those guys weren't there. So then he was like, there was a coyote. Yes. Let's keep going. Yeah. And also don't depend on fucking actors.

Well, one of those guys was a alkali tome. And it turns out Bill Duncan had heard about the plan and come and told them to not do it and talked him into coming back to town because he thought the investors would see right through it. Yeah. And he was like, what would happen when they did, were you going to kill them? Like, how does this all, how does it all play out? How is it greasing the wheels? None of it.

Well, part of it is just to make him be like, oh, wow, he's a guy we could trust. Yeah. And also like the, how exciting it is out here. And also, oh, he saved us from these guys. Right. Like it's all just fucking. So he really just runs like a haunted house almost. Yeah.

Yeah. This is like an early Disneyland. Right. Okay. When they got to the mine, they were greeted by explosion. So as they're pulling up, they just hear boom, boom, because they're just. Sorry, boys, things are really active around here. Well, they're setting off dynamite, you know, in the mine sack.

Yeah. Because they're, they're going for all the gold. Oh, well, let's, they got to dig real deep to find this bullshit. Men are all moving about. It's all a flutter. We're not actors either. They're all working very hard. Watermelon, watermelon, watermelon, watermelon, watermelon.

They're bringing up ore. So guys are coming up with all this amazing looking ore from the mine. And the investors watch as a big load of ores hauled off in a wagon. Sorry, you guys are catching us on a light day. Normally there's a lot of ore. Hey, I heard those henchmen stopped you. No, there's henchmen to not stop us. You know, henchmen.

No, those guys. They try to take your, oh. The investors were fed. Then they went on a tour of the mining complex. I like they even took a picture. Oh, really clear. It's a bunch of the workers and then the investors. Well, now, I'm not trying to crap on the technology of this era.

This is early photographs. Super early. Yeah. So I guess, yeah, I'm just trying to see this. People are just, people, this is when a picture would come to the paper and people would be like, it's magic. Yeah, right. This to them is fucking bananas,

that they can see what happened somewhere else at another time. Like this is truly fucking crazy. Yeah. And now I look at it now and. Yeah, now it's not that great. It's not a very good picture. No, this would be really bad if it was on Instagram. Yeah.

So they go into mine shafts. Richard pointed out the new machinery that was like leg out, not installed yet. He's like, we're about to install the machinery. Right. They were told to take samples of the ore with them because it's so fucking awesome. Well, it's everywhere. It's everywhere.

It's just like, let's go get it out of here. The ore had actually been taken and brought from other mines and then sprayed. Okay. So this is a. Or sprinkled with gold dust to make it look better. So this is a, I mean. This actually had a name for it. Lying.

It's called salting. So you take actual real good ore from another mine, you bring it to your mine, and then you put gold on it to make it look even better. So they see this pile of awesome shit that they say just came out of your mine, but it didn't. You know, I just, I worry what happens to this made off. It's fine. They, at one point they take them down into a mine because they found a vein of mica,

which is known as fool's gold. Right. And so they, and they show them and they're like, it's a little ways away. They're like, look, gold. And the guy, look fool's gold. Yeah. And these guys are all from New York. We've been all fucking shit about it.

And they're like, oh my God, go. Go. So they're over the fucking. Don't let the coyote get it. Or do. Uh-huh. Or do. So it was.

So anyway, everyone was very excited. And they all believe they're about to become super wealthy. Like they had just fucking hit it. When they got back to drama, Richard sent off telegrams to newspapers and people he knew in New York, describing the awesome trip. Quote, everyone could buy Spena Zuma stocks with confidence and knowing and had been investigated by prominent persons and found to be even richer than represented. Mm-hmm.

Jesus. He also sent telegrams to his contacts or in on the scam saying they would have no trouble selling the additional 10 million worth of stock. Right. Two years before, Arizona territory officials had become concerned that all the fig mines popping up everywhere were destroying confidence in the mining business. What an irrational fear. Yeah.

Someone suggested that an agency should be created to keep an eye on the industry. Oh, the. Regulation. Yeah, regulations. We want freedom. Yeah, no. Legislator, the legislature approved it. And then a new paper in Phoenix called the Arizona Republic, it had just started a couple

years before, started the mining beat. Okay. And now that's got to be good news for Richard. Well, a reporter named George Smalley was assigned to be the mine reporter. Oh, man. So he's the mine beat guy. Okay. He's got the fucking job of the, that's him.

Oh, okay, so he's a, all right, kind of a. Just the photographs are so bad. It's amazing, but they would be like, oh my God. Look at that. Wow. Yeah. So, so he's the mine reporter. He would ride across just miles of empty land to get to mines, write up a story about

what was coming out of the ground, how the mine was operating, the mine beat, like a crime beat. So was it sort of, I don't know, a crime beat? So was it sort of, is his job, like he, is he trying to be investigative or is he just kind of going there and just reporting on what he sees? A very honest reporter. Okay. He is very much like a man who is like, I will write what I see.

Okay. I will be honest and truthful. Okay. Right. So, in early 1899, just a week after the happy investors had headed back to New York, Smalley was headed over to a mine when he ran into Bill Duncan. Okay. And now Bill Duncan, for some reason, was now a disgruntled

spenizoma employee. So something happened and he was like, fuck this place. Okay. He told Smalley all about Richard's fake mine and said he'd take him there. Okay. When they arrived, there was none of the activity that had been going on when the investors were there. Right.

The superintendent was lounging in a hammock beneath a sycamore tree. Oh, sorry. I just got tired from war. I've got so much war. I've been golding all day. Sorry. Oh, I've been gold, I gold at night now and then during the day I hammock. Yeah, it's just...

I'm a classic miner. There's so much that we don't need to work anymore. We took all that we could take out and we need more... But it's growing. It's growing back. That's how it works. We need more hitty things. Yes.

Sharpened hammer-pointy things. Yes. Sharpened hammer-pointy things. That's what we're after. And then the bags to put the ubiquitous minerals into. Yes. Oh, we have been truly blessed up here at Montezuma, yes. All right, now if you come back, we will cut your head off.

I love mining. So they were told the property was not open for strangers to inspect. No, no, no. Just people who are going to buy it. But Duncan found a way for them to sneak onto the property because he knew fucking everything about the place. Sure. They explored mine shafts and tunnels which were all way too short.

Okay. Smolly looked at the buildings and machinery and realized this setup was ridiculous. The buildings could never hold the machinery that was there. Like one was just... One of the buildings he went in was just like two by fours laid on the ground. Like you needed actual like something to... Right. One of them just had a sign that just said this is an active mine.

Um, machinery was much too small for what legitimate mines would use to crush ore. So it's just all... At any point, are you starting to think that this is not a good mine? Oh, it feels like a great mine. I mean, I would still invest. Yeah, okay, all right. I just want to... I'm just making sure.

They saw the Saltador. So he's been in the... He's been in down the mines. He sees this pile of awesome ore. He's like, this is all bullshit. Duncan told him which two mines the ore was from, but Smalley said I'll take it from here. I'm a reporter and I'll find out where it came from myself. But I thought we were just kind of partners.

No, we're not partners. But I'm Duncan. I am a reporter. You're Duncan. We're reporters. You brought me here. We're reporters. You did your job.

I did our job. Now I walk away from you. I can't end this. I do my job. I have issues with goodbye. I know. Take me with you. I'll be your sidekick.

I won't even bother you much. I just need a god damn friend. I'll pay you. Please. Come on. All right. I'm going to walk away. You'll regret this.

Here I go. I don't regret it at all. It feels great. I'm betting that Duncan and Richard's falling out happened when Duncan pulled the two henchmen away from the. Yeah. That's what I would assume. Yeah.

So small he goes and investigates. He spent days questioning local supervisors of mines and slowly discovered the full operation. Right. One mine owner said Richard had bought ore from him to be shipped back to New York as Spinozuma or that he was displaying currently in his office. Wow. There's nothing at Spinozuma.

Just one two foot vein of sulfide. Quote no copper no gold no silver just lead. When small investigation was going on Richard was happily working his scam back in New York. He put out more fake ore testing reports. It's so funny you can find them. Oh wow. Yeah.

The investors who had visited were talking it up. So now it's just like all these actual rich prominent guys are out telling everyone how awesome it is. Together they issued an affidavit. So all the fucking rich guys who came together put out an affidavit that said how awesome the mining company was. Quote most of us considered this prospectus a fairy tale but candidly confess that it is not only true but our own

eyes have seen much more than has been claimed and we sincerely believe the property to be the most valuable of its kind in the country. Okay there we go. Richard used the affidavit to further promote. The ore testing reports confirmed what the investors said. It was now estimated the mine could produce between 2,500 and 10,000 per day.

Wow. That's a lot considering it's empty. Yeah I mean considering there's nothing there. Yeah that's just a ton. Big numbers this is very enron. Oh yeah. Then on May 17th in 1899 Smiley's investigation story was published in the Arizona Republic.

The headline was quote a tender foot trap. Okay. He lays it all out. Okay. The fake ore that many of the tents in the supposed camp were empty and that fake miners were paid three dollars a day. Okay. One miner said quote this is the laziest camp I ever struck.

Yeah it's a great job for them. We have a good time during our shift and very little work is done. It's a good it's a good time. And he said when the investors were there they had been told to act excited about the ore they were bringing out of the mine. They also took the investors into a mine and pointed out the mica and said it was gold. The investors knew so little about mining they believed everything. Yeah which is why you want to definitely get an affidavit involved.

100 percent. Yeah. Smiley wrote that Richard and the mining company were quote committing a crime against Arizona which its people should punish. They are injuring the mining interests of the entire territory which I don't give a fuck. Good. Fuck mining. Yeah.

I mean that's my honest response. Fuck mining. Yeah. But this is before they knew that. Nah they still know. They still know. I'm not so fucking does it. Takes you out of my sweet mother earth.

My little baby. I listen. Okay. When news made it back to New York the value of the stock quickly fell to zero. Huh that's way lower. Yeah it's a lot lower. Do you have to make new certificates? I guess you yeah you know.

Valueless. Nothing. Nothing. Richard tried to save this window. He hired an Arizona lawyer to offer Smiley a $5,000 bribe to retract his 17 page detailed article and to write other stories explaining how he was wrong. He made millions of dollars and he's offering him five grand. Okay thank you.

So what a cheap mother fucker. Yeah. Like all of the money that he put into this thing and then he's just going to offer five grand. You offer this guy a million dollars. I mean that is. This is your the future of your bullshit mine is on the line. Act like you give a shit.

And then he wants him to write other fucking. Yeah more stories. I want it to be a series. For some reason Smiley turned the offer down. What? Yeah. The lawyer threatened to sue the paper for $100,000 for libel then. Mm-hmm.

He said the paper had quote unsubstantiated reporting caused his client unbearable stress and considerable loss of income. Mm-hmm. The paper owners did not back down and the lawyer eventually did. Yeah. The territorial governor of Arizona then issued an official proclamation warning Easterners against ever investing in the Spinozoma mining company. So this is probably all bad.

It's not good for the company. Has peaked at this point. It's not good for the company. Gentlemen we have to let you go. Yeah. Who? Me. I'm the only one who works here.

Yeah. It was such a vast operation too. Like he really... It's almost like if he focused on mining maybe he would have gotten something. But here's what he did. He did everything but keep the guys who knew about it on his good side. Bill Duncan. Mm-hmm.

Right. Like the guy you don't fuck with. Yeah. The guy who knows everything and that's the guy you fucked with. Because otherwise this is fucking rolling still. I mean look. Yeah. You've got to bribe the people properly.

So the publisher of the Graham County Guardian did not look good now. He was forced to admit that the mining camp was deserted and stocks he had been advertising in the paper were worthless. Okay. The local community was rocked. Businesses had come and set up ready for the coming flood of riches. Wow. So basically a town had set up waiting to deal with all the ore and gold and copper and silver.

I mean they were in saloons. Like everyone made a... Everyone was ready. Yeah. They ordered products. They waited. But once the truth was exposed everyone went out of business. It was over.

But Richard. Yes. That's my man. Not one to give up. There we go. Fight baby. Less than a month later he was back at it with another fake mining operation in the Pelino Mountains.

He called it Lone Pine Mining Company. There we go. So he's doing the exact same fucking thing. Word got to Smalley pretty fast. He went out and investigated. He found the exact same thing. As he looked around a guy who was with him yelled duck. Quote, then followed a dull thud of lead against the rocks.

Smalley had been shot at. Jesus. They saw two men with rifles a ways away in some trees. After waiting a while and realizing the men weren't going to shoot again they approached the men. Both of whom were standing there with rifles and Smalley accused them of shooting at him. One said they were just hunting rabbits and that he should get off the claim. Just a couple of Elmer fuds. Uh-uh, we was hunting rabbits.

Also you need to leave here. I feel like you shot at me. Rabbits. Yeah, but you boys look like a rabbit from way up here. You look like, you boys look like rabbits. Rabbits around here by five foot eight and they wear clothes. We don't, maybe part of the problem is we don't know what a rabbit is. Never seen no rabbit.

Anyway, we got our hands full of oil. You get out of here. There's so much oil up here. Yeah, so Smalley left and he wrote up another story. Richard's fucking. I'll give you three pencils to stop doing this. Richard's done in Arizona. He's just fucked at this point.

But not back east. There we go. He continued to con and swindle and became known by the name Smalley had given him in the story, The Prince of Swindlers. Okay. He wrote up an 18, I read the whole thing. He wrote up an 18 page story on. He's got an A team, which I was going to say.

He put it together in 18. You love that show. Face man. Face man. You never watched the A team? Face? I've seen the A team. I've seen the A team.

Yeah. Faces? Sure. Sure? Yeah. I mean, it's Mr. T's world that everyone else is just the side character. That's just, that's just a really fucked thing to say about face. What else is, yeah.

Uh, so, uh, he's now going by two different aliases, Oxford and Montgomery. One man he conned into buying stock in Spena Zuma was his friend, Theodore Hagamann. Okay. Hagamann invested 300,000. Sure. Theodore died in 1902. And then Richard went to his widow and convinced her to invest more money in a different company. Oh dear.

Richard and the widows seem pretty close and Hagamann's heirs then brought a suit against the widow and people began to wonder if Richard had been part of Hagamann's death. Oh shit. So Hagamann was dug up. They thought he might be poisoned. In 1903. Was Richard like, I don't know how to dig to get anything out of anywhere. I know what I can't do.

Any of that. Try, I don't know. Here's a spoon. I got nothing. I am out of ideas. Just get a bunch of machines around it and don't plug them into anything. In 1903 Richard was indicted in New York for conning a woman out of 50,000 in another mining scam in a different state like Colorado and he's doing it in other places.

A different woman from Brooklyn paid his bail of 20,000 and then he immediately skipped out on the bail and headed for Philadelphia and she ended up having to lose the 20 grand. Oh shit. There in Philadelphia he came up with more cons. One of which was that he figured out a secret process to make real diamonds. He. What? He figured out a secret process.

Why are you doubting me? He figured out how to make diamonds. Sure. I mean it sounds awesome. Yeah. It sounds like the best thing ever. For sure, yeah. Yeah, I mean he just figured it out.

Just feels like it's not a thing. No man, he figured it out. I've not heard of it recently so. Well here's some diamonds so you see them. Those are probably just regular diamonds. Just made them in the back room. With what? Out of the diamond machine.

What does it look like? Can I see it? It's like a picture. Can I see it? Yeah, so if you look at it your eyes can die. How did you get in there to look at it? I wear special glasses. Can I just wear those glasses or just go in there?

Just for me. Can I, I'm sure there's a way for me to get a pair of those fitted for me. I want to invest a lot of money in this. I just need a pair of these special glasses. The guy who made him die in a train accident. Well surely there's another guy who could maybe try to make another pair. He didn't leave the formula. Well, I mean I'm sure I could just,

can we just take the lenses out of yours and put them in like some, some. No, they're made specifically for my eyes. It's just super convenient. Put them on someone else's eyes. I'd be like wearing someone else's glasses. What happens if I look at it without those? Your whole brain explodes. Oh, but you're a brain doctor so you'll be fine to fix that there.

Well I can't put together an exploded brain. I would need my medium for that, but he's in Boston. So he even gave out samples of the diamonds to potential investors who would take them to experts who pronounced them, quote, impossible to be distinguished from the genuine. So the real diamonds. Yeah. He's pulled the switcher.

And this is just before the switcheroo. It's the switcheroo. He was arrested in Philadelphia by New York cops and fought extradition to New York. He was let out on bail and obviously needed more money. So Richard using the name Oxford with his son, whose name is AD Flower, who I didn't know existed until this point in the story. Sure.

They sold $900,000 worth of stock in a new corporation. They did not keep records of the stock sales, which is what you do. Standard, standard. That's what you do. Standard. He was arrested again. For what? The corporation was created by Professor Oxford,

who had learned of a way to make different colored bricks out of common garden dirt. This is now getting sad. This is fucking rad. This is like the spaghetti incident right now. He could change the world. He told investors the brick became so hard instantly and were more durable than normal clay bricks.

We're talking about a brick revolution. It's sad. It is sad. I mean, we're talking about this. This used to be about gold. Then it was about diamonds. Now we got real hard bricks. Oh, hold on.

Turns out he had learned of the ancient process on a trip to Persia. That he never took. The plant he was building was going to be able to crank out 400,000 bricks a day and make the company. That's too many bricks. 228,000 a month. He said anyone who invested 5,000 would get at least 100,000 in return. I just.

He was arrested again. For what? The president of the company board said, quote, had I known of Dr. Flowers history, I never would have gone into the company. Yeah. I did not know that flower is at present fighting extradition to New York, but the president's suspicion was raised after Professor Oxford gave him three pearls. He said he made.

I mean, he's just so comfortable lying. When the president had them inspected, they revealed to be cheap imitations. They weren't actually pearls. So at this point, he's not even going the. Also, his name is not Oxford's flower. He's, but he's not even going like the extra mile now of just having real pearls saying that he created them from his ass.

Yeah. I don't know why he did that. And it was almost like. Because he's becoming like worse. Reading the story. It was like the guy, like he was like, had this brick thing going. And then he all of a sudden he was like, I have pearls. Like he just.

He's fat. He already, he already had the guy in the guy. He's fat Elvis at this point. He's out of his fucking mind. Uh, the, uh, Dilla Sedalia weekly wrote on November 29, 1907, quote, hundreds of other companies for the manufacture of every conceivable object for the development of every variety of mine have been promoted by Dr. Flower, as well as numerous benevolent societies and Christian aid organizations,

the beneficiary being always Dr. Richard C. Flower. Another man followed. Yeah. Right. Another man filed charges against Dr. Flower, quote, he asserted that the doctor pretended to have a secret process for the manufacture of telegraph poles that the material was processed into a mold, hardening immediately and that the cost was nominal.

And then he had big contracts from Western railroads. He's got to be stressed. He, I mean, there's many lies. New telephone pole company, this is a revolution in telephone polling. This we can change the way telephone poles. We now are able to make a telephone pole out of bullshit. What I'm saying is what is shit and now we have to make something out of this. Yes, they grow out of the ground like beanstalks, which we also have access to.

Beanstalks? Yes. We have figured out a way and this is a side tip, by the way, but we have a way, we have some beans that we've got and they are not really edible beans. They're not kidney beans. They're not black beans. They're not pinto beans. They're not white beans.

Is this a new bean? It's a new bean. A new bean. Good lord. And in early testing, we found that these beans, when they are in the right soil, which again, we only have the technology to this soil, a thing called a beanstalk, which is essentially an enormous vine that will go to the clouds. Good lord.

No, no, no, no, no. This is all rudimentary right now. And again, this is a sidebar. This is not on record. But some of the miners, because we're still using miners for this project. Children? Yes, these are about nine-year-old children. They're almost ready to go off on their own in the world.

Most of them are married with kids of their own. Sure. You mean that's not a crazy thing to imagine, they're children. But if you climb this beanstalk, up there are giants in the clouds. I'm sorry? There are giant, almost humans like us, but they're giant. In the clouds? In the clouds, you say.

Shut up, shut up, shut your mouth. Yes. And this is all from a legume. This is, it's from a, I wouldn't even call it a legume. Okay. These are magic beans. These are, they're beans, but they're not, these are magic beans. Where did they come from?

They actually came out of a room. They came out of a room. And so that's part of, but that's, that's not what's interesting. Wait, wait, can we back up a little bit? Oh, I can't really, because when you get, the giants have treasure up there. Okay. So you can get, it's called a legume, is where the beans came from. And, and yes.

Oh. Now you like it again. Yeah, that's great. Well, this makes sense. Yes, exactly. Now, ideally we'll be able to go up into the clouds where the giants live, and we'll be able to take a bunch of their giant stuff. I mean, even if we get a, you know, a candlestick from up there,

that's the hundred of our candlesticks. We'll throw this stuff down and we'll be able to, you know, just sell the materials from the giants. So that's the latest business. My name's Jack, by the way. Hi. How are you? My name's Dave.

I started at Uber. Interesting. It's different. We're, we're, we're basically. We're similar, we're similar. We're taking over, we're, we're taking over the carriage business. We're similar types of guys. We're, we're both, we're both good business.

Practicers. I have enough money to drive every carriage driver out of business, and, and then make them work for me. And, and then they don't have any health insurance. I'll tell you what, I don't see an idea like that ever, actually being able to stick around in a society. The beans, on the other hand, pardon the pun, but the sky's the limit. Well, legume me.

You know what I mean? I'm in. All right, great. Worst business meeting ever. So, did I do this right? Telephone poles. It turns out the tel, I read further into it, the telephone poles were going to be made out of clay.

Oh, that's perfect. That's perfect. Because clay's indestructible. That's what they say. That's perfect. I mean, the only downside to that idea is rain. Really be a problem, but outside of that. So he does not get bail this time when he's arrested.

When Richard was in the magistrate's office, a hypodermic needle fell out of his pocket. No, that's embarrassing. Where did that come from? Someone must be doing heroin. He said he was taking barfing for, quote, pains, which he attributed to overwork and protecting the Great Persian process.

Yeah, that's true. The newspaper article went on to, quote, Dr. Flowers claims that he is able to manufacture diamonds, pearls, and rubies, as well as brick, stove, and pulse. Well, when you put the list together, it's kind of, it's an indictment. So there's a good, there's a Persian process that he has stumbled across, ancient Persian process,

that is able to make diamonds, pearls, rubies, and bricks and telephone poles. Yep, the standard six. He was extradited to New York, given bail, and then... Let me guess, stuck around for trial. Yeah, he jumped bail. Ah, weird. His wife sued Mrs. Hageman, the widow of Hageman.

It turns out Richard and Mrs. Hageman took off together, and were spotted in various locations around the country. Okay. So ever since Hageman had died, he had been with... The wife. The wife. Getting money. So when he went to Philadelphia, he was with Hageman's widow.

Okay. And so his wife chooses to sue Hageman's widow. Yeah. In September 1908, police in Richmond, Virginia, detained Mrs. Hageman and seized, quote, trunks full of finery and gems. Larry, look at this. There's a shitload of gems in here and of finery.

I bet they were made in a room. They also arrested a man believed to be Dr. Flower. Okay. Wow. So he's at that point. But the police arrested him. They arrested him under the, quote, blanket charge of being suspicious characters.

Okay. So the Giuliani law. So it's not a great arrest. Right. A judge... How is there not enough to get him on now? You're out of there, and these are suspicious characters. Isn't that the guy who's ripped off millions of dollars for people?

He's very simple. So they couldn't, so wherever he would get arrested, they needed time to then send documentation to prove it was him. Okay. And in that time, he would often get out of jail by a judge. He's like, these charges are nonsense. So he was often ahead of the fucking thing. Sounds not stressful though.

Yeah. So a judge releases them two days later. Though Virginia police believed he was wanted in many other cities for grand larceny, and really wanted in New York, they had to let Dr. Flowers go. Virginia police blamed the apathy of the New York police for his release, because the New York cops, when the Virginia cops are like, sent us down documents or a cop or whatever, the New York cops decided not to send someone to get Richard,

because they didn't believe it was him. Okay. Good. Good. Yeah. Good, good, good. At this point, Richard's wife had had it. She filed for divorce on grounds that he was running around the country with another woman.

Yeah. She was granted a divorce in 1910. Richard continued to travel and swindle. He traveled all over the West into Mexico. He was finally caught in Toronto in 1914. He actually went to Europe for a little bit. He was caught in Toronto in 1914 after 11 years on the run. Wow.

Wow. He had lived in Toronto for two years. The Pinkertons found him. Wow. The New York Times said he was, quote, broken by age and drugs. He was sentenced to a year in jail on December 8th, 1914, and after getting out, he moved to New Jersey as an old broken down man. Richard died suddenly in a theater in Hoboken, New Jersey, September 1960. Wow. Yeah.

Was he, like, was that the biggest bullshitter up until then? Was this the most? He was really one of the king all-time bullshitters, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there were a lot of guys that did a lot of shit, but he was, like, I think that the level of just horseshit that came out of this fucking guy was just astounding that people bought it, and everywhere he went, he would just lie out. I mean, telephone poles and diamonds, like, it's fucking insane.

The telephone poles I like. It's almost like he's trying to see how stupid people are. And realizing they're really stupid. They're more dumb than you could ever imagine. Well, sign cars and... Oh, we do sign cars. In what country should we move to when this all falls apart? Well, we better hurry, because I feel...

Panama. Yeah. Just because of Van Halen. We should go to Persia. Yep. That's where all the, that's where you get the ruby-making technology. Oh, my God. They have so many telephone poles there.

Yeah, yeah. Thank God it doesn't rain. Okay. Merry Christmas. Okay, Merry Christmas. Oh, I'm gonna pee.