The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 396 - the Donner Party

Episode Date: September 18, 2019

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine The Donner PartySOURCESTOUR DATESREDBUBBLE MERCH

When you're staying at an Airbnb you might be like me wondering could my place be an Airbnb and if it could what could it earn? You could be sitting on an Airbnb and not even know it. That in-law sweet guest house where your parents stay only part-time Airbnb it and make some money the rest of the year whether you could use a little extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. Hello Sacramento or as I like to call it the nation's capital. You're listening to the dollop. This is a bi-weekly American

history podcast each week I owner of Larry the dog. You mean the one who hurt Rebecca? Driver of electric car. Man with nipples. Awful. Dave Anthony read the story from American history to his friend. Gareth Reynolds who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. This is one of the most requested dollops. It's a story everybody knows. Even me pops? Yeah. Hey should we say real quick that we just that we have added a second show in London. Yep. So if people want to go on our UK tour there's another show in London. Yep. And we have another podcast that's pretty much like this

podcast. It's called the dollop England in the UK and the stories are pretty fucking banana so listen to that. May 22nd 1814. How do I know this? Year of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you. Johan Ludwig Christian Kesberg was born in Berlberg in the Kingdom of Prussia. Okay. Shall I take a knee? It's now known as Germany people. Oh. Frederick was his dad Frederick was a Lutheran clergyman and little is little else is known about the family. In 1842 28-year-old Johan married 19-year-old Elizabeth Philippe Zimmerman. Okay. They had twin girls Matilda Elise and Julian Coraline who they called Ada. Cute so far. Yeah. It's a

nice story. Yeah. Yeah. Twin daughters cute cute cute little names. The Prussian Empire was going through a lot of upheaval you know everyone's you know just some fucking shit show. If you don't need to tell me what's going on in Prussia in 1840. Proven I know that. So in 1844 the Kesberg's headed to the United States where Johan started going by the name Lewis. Okay. Sure. Why do you look like a little kid who's about to get his picture taken. You're so happy. I just love that no one knows what it is yet. They settled. You look so elated with yourself. They settled near Cincinnati. He was he worked as a brewer distiller.

One of the twins Matilda died but it's that you know it's a dollar. A kid's going to die in the first couple of minutes. That's just how I think that's what twins were in the 1840s. You're like that means we got one for sure. Lock in one. Oh it was the bad one. Hey whatever. They look alike. We're going to call you by the ones name that we liked. Is that okay with you. You're her now. Now you're Ada you're Ada. Is that okay. Yes Ada. Don't act like Matilda. Take the good news. Take the good news Ada. Yes Ada. You're a good girl. Manifest destiny was was happening in America. Americans were encouraged to move west because of

divine providence national superiority and exceptionalism. Thank God that went away. We're fucking assholes. So but getting to places like California not easy. Sure. I mean it's kind of like what we went through today. Yep. Just no gimmick. Weird looks at Harley-David's. Yeah. Multiple am pms. Yep. Multiple. The trip took four to six months by wagon. Last hundred miles you had to go through the tall steep snowy Sierra Nevada mountains. It's a total nightmare. They're here tonight. They love the some people just love mountains. Yeah. Timing was so funny that they sit all the way in the back too. They're like we love

elevation. Timing very crucial on this trip. You leave too early. You get bogged down my mud in the spring rains. Sure. Leave a little late. You get snowed in. Sure. Like Edward. So the Kessburgs headed west in 1846. Okay. Several wagons. They had a party of nine people. Lewis his wife who's now pregnant. That's when you want to get in a wagon and head out west. For sure. Yeah. It might just pop out of you. You won't even notice. Ada who is now three. Some other German immigrants. An old Belgian man named hard coop. Well I think by the way if you're making cuts to the party of nine it's hard goop goes. We're not making cuts yet.

I'd like to make a cut early on hard goop. The wagon driver everyone called Dutch Charlie even though he was German. Sure. That's classic Dutch Charlie behavior right there and I'd given a shit. So Lewis Lewis is six feet tall. He's 180 pounds. He speaks four languages. Jesus. Yeah. It's a big it's a big lad for back then. Yeah. Plus four languages. Yeah. Arthur Arthur Arthur author CF McGlashan described him as quote. He has a distinct rapid mode of enunciation. A loud voice and a somewhat excited manner of speech. In conversing he looks one squarely and steadily in the eye and appears like an honest

intelligent German. It's literally only the last word that makes it weird. Every other part of it is like yeah of course he looked at you when you talked. That's not abnormal. He's like he looked at me when I talked for a German. Do you know what I'm saying. So in mid May a hundred miles west of independence they were joined by two larger groups. The reed party. James Reed was an Irishman. He was heading west because he hoped California's climate would help his wife's terrible migraines. Okay. Oh I pray. He had recently declared bankruptcy also. Okay. He had served during the Black Hawk war with Abraham Lincoln. Sure.

And they became really really good friends. Lincoln wanted his family to go with the reeds on this journey but Mary Todd Lincoln was pregnant and she was like fuck no. But meanwhile there were pregnant people on the wagon journey Germans. Right. Right. There's that word. Germans are like I got this and they just fucking do whatever. Hold it in. Don't let it slip out. Push your legs together. Cross them. Give me the clothespin. It's fair to be a disgusted by that. They were so close to the Lincolns that Mary Todd Lincoln came down and you know wave goodbye as they were driving away. So the other big group that

joined them besides the reed party were known as the Donner party. What's amazing is that I was like I was genuinely starting to be like if I don't know this I will be embarrassed. You're like everyone will know this one. I was like when does it click in. Okay. There's the family name I've heard before. So now Lewis was actually not easy to like. On the trip he was known for absolutely terrible behavior and a very bad temper. He would plunder Native American burial sites on the journey. That's just I mean yeah. Like we've done enough. The idea that you need to just be like prank. It's like dude fuck off. They have

stuff. We will take it. One immigrant said hey look I got the flowers. Yeah fuck them I'm the worst. Oh wait I'm German. I love that you're right. I love that your idea of a Native American burial site is flowers. Everybody likes them. Who doesn't like those? One immigrant said Lewis took a buffalo robe from a Sioux grave. Oh and probably some flowers. By the way I love that they're in your mind they're fresh graves or or the Sioux are stopping by and putting flowers down every week. Well that's the one I'm thinking. You know like we did with my grandpa. Another person on the trip called Lewis quote eccentric

antisocial and someone predisposed to derangement of the mind. Jesus Christ. James Reed's eldest daughter claimed Lewis hit a little girl who came to play with his daughter and scarred her for the rest of the journey. Well what sounds like she had a comment like what were you gonna just fucking roll up on my wagon and be like is your daughter available to play. You're gonna get hit. Wait everything you said sounds okay so far so. Can she play. No. Oh the nerve. Now who thinks I look great in a buffalo robe. So Lewis and Reed were constantly fighting. Reed kept confronting Lewis when he beat his wife or neglected his

kids. Jesus Christ. Which apparently happened often. And Lewis was like let me be the worst. Yeah. The party reached Wyoming in May 1846 and Lilburn Boggs to control. He was a former Missouri governor. What's his name. Lilburn Boggs. Lilburn. Lilburn. Like a cartoon character. Yeah Lilburn. Lilburn. Not a big burn. Lilburn. Lilburn. You touch your pants too hot. Get Lilburn. That's right. So because he was you know big fancy ex-governor you guys already done. Because he was a big fancy ex-governor they started calling it the Boggs party. Okay. Now they arrived at Fort Laramie Wyoming in June. Now there was this failed lawyer

named Lanceford Hastings who was a huge adventurer kind of guy. And he wanted to take California from the Mexicans and establish an independent republic with him as the ruler. Okay. So he's an ambitious seeker. He's got big ideas. Yeah. Nothing wrong with the big idea man. No. He thought if he could convince enough Americans to settle in California the Mexican population would be overwhelmed and it would result in a bloodless revolution. Which happened. Right. Yeah. Cool. So to get people to go to California Hastings made the trip sound super easy. So but we just ran into this on another one where it's just someone

is just like oh you're gonna love it. It couldn't be easier. It's like taking a sled downhill. It'll be fun. And you just are like people die and you're like well I'm a liar. I'm sorry everyone died. I really I will I don't care about the feelings of others. He wrote a book called The Immigrants Guide to Oregon in California. It was full of absolute bullshit. For example he claimed that travelers would not have to worry about Native Americans because quote the desolating ravages of inter-tribal war have been the chief causes of now abandoned villages which are covered in human skulls. Wait. That's to make people

feel better. The real version. Doesn't that want to make you go there? No. Don't mind the skulls. It's just like a stoned pathway. And and that the wilderness and timidity of these tribes are such that upon the appearance of white persons at their villages all of the males both old and young immediately flee in the utmost confusion. Like running into each other. To the surrounding hills and mountains while females remain and commence of the most doleful moaning and crying. So who this sounds great. Oh wait so the idea is that if you're white and you walk into that area the men don't know what to do

and just run around like Benny Hill and the women fall down and start crying. Yes. Sure that sounds pretty logical yeah. Who needs motivated actions. So a lot of pioneers were into Hastings book including the Reeds and the Donners. Jacob Donner passed his copy around to everyone else in the group and he would discuss it often. One big lie in the book was about the Hastings cutoff which is supposed to be a shortcut that Hastings had discovered by looking at a map. Is that how one finds the shortcut. That's right. Normally someone's like wait they missed a thing here. Look real close there Arthur. There's a thing. Look I can make

my finger do this. That'll be easy on foot. Basically the same trip just with feet. Whoo that was easy. But his shortcut was actually 125 miles longer than the usual route. It's a weird shortcut sure. It's not your traditional shortcut. And Hastings had never traveled it. Okay. Well I'm starting to I mean I kind of forgive him now a little bit. He really was just like you go that way fuck off get in there I'm the leader. Now while they were there Reed ran into an old friend who was a seasoned mountain man and guy had been all over the west. Well that's pretty lucky. Yep. And he said that Hastings book was fucking bullshit.

Okay. And Hastings was a scammer and he met him and he had no idea how difficult the journey was and he told Reed absolutely do not take the Hastings cutoff. Now Dave why don't we just go to the next sentence where you tell me that they took the Hastings cutoff. How's that sound? Who needs an experienced mountain man when some guy was like you go there. You don't need a guy and I found a piece of paper. A guide? What do you need a guide for? He's got knowledge. Take this paper. So the men of the party spoke all night with the experienced guide and some took his warnings and kept going on the proven

route but others like the Reeds and the Donners did not. Quote I told Reed to take the regular wagon track and never leave it. Told him of the great desert and the roughness of the Sierras but he quickly responded there's a higher route and it is of no use to take such a roundabout course. Oh man okay. It's gonna be fine. Yeah no with the little knowledge I have I know it will be fine. So the party split up one party on the original route while Reed and the others including the Kesbergs followed the Hastings cutoff. This group was officially now called the Donner party. Enjoy enjoy your enjoy your fingers. Wait they're

serving fingers tonight. I believed you for way too long on a lot of that. At the Sweetwater River in Wyoming the Donner party was given a letter from Hastings. Good news I found it even shorter route. Right so they're at Fort Bridger and it warned of so they're going to Fort Bridger warned of possible Mexican attacks and said if they met him at Fort Bridger he would personally lead them on the Hastings cutoff across the desert and mountains. Okay that's nice. It's nice but it's total bullshit in some way for sure. Well they arrived at Fort Bridger on July 27th. Hastings had just left to join another party. Damn it. What they were

what they were not told was a lot of previous travelers at Fort Bridger had left letters to warn other immigrants to not go on the Hastings cutoff. Where are the letters? Well but the owners of the fort didn't want to lose any business so they hid the letters. Oh my god well ma I don't know I think that's gonna affect the cafe business a lot. All them letters that say don't go this way. I just ordered a case of Coke. Mm-hmm welcome to Survivors Cafe. So the Donner party was now 74 people. Jesus Christ. At Weber River or Weber whatever in Utah on August 6th they found a message from Hastings on a stick. You got to feel good

about that. You're like I was worried for a minute but then we got this stick note. Give me a minute I'm gonna have a twig read. I'm happy with what's happening over here. Good news there's a letter on a stick. We've got another branch book. It said the canyon was impassable and drew a new route over the mountains. No no no wait okay so if you're going from book to note on a stick not as good. You're like oh wait sorry there's been an update thank God we found this note stick otherwise we would have been fucked. He also said to send someone to catch up with them so he could show them the alternative route. Read into

Med went ahead and caught up with Hastings. Okay and then he talked Hastings into writing back to the Donner camp. Sure. To talk to these people. Sure. But Hastings a little ways out had second thoughts and said he felt really bad about abandoning the other group he was leading so he just showed read the route I guess on the ground like I don't know. Oh that's good that old that works it's just like drawing up a football player. You go here and there and you're fine. You're this and then you just keep going you'll figure it out just keep going down. But the route was so vague that read just ended up picking his own trail. Well

that's not good right. No it's fine. No okay well I actually know it not to be fine. Well you don't know that. It could all be lies. Yeah uh-huh. What if everybody it's all fine. Now while they were waiting now while they're waiting even more people joined at the Donner party was now 87 people. Jesus Christ. Now they all headed out on Reed's path. Summer was they know that he's just sort of like improving a path now. I don't think they do. I think I think he came back and said it's this way. Oh so he's just like good a really good talk with the Hitchens it's fine it's right over here. Yeah let's go this way. Summer's

now over. That's a good sign. One young traveler dried up died of consumption. Lewis's wife gave birth to a baby boy. That's a good time. He was named Lewis Jr. It took them three weeks to reach Salt Lake instead of the couple of days that Hastings had promised. That's good. So two days three weeks. Sure. Water the water there was undrinkable so they had to gather water and grass before heading into the desert which delayed them more. Okay. Hastings said the desert was about 40 miles wide. He said the desert was 40. 40 miles wide. Okay. It was 80 miles wide.

Okay. Within two days the cattle and horses started dying. They couldn't pull the wagon. Some broke free and ran off. Those are the real that by the way it feels like that's the last good moment of the episode. Just general vibe feels like this is the last time we feel happiness. Oh for those cows who were like go go go go. Be free. Without their horses the Reed family had to abandon most of their wagons and they had to carry what they could now walking through the desert. So are we at the point where you're like that hitch and son of a bitch at the point son of a bitch. No this is a great pass. This is great. Really

close. Great short cut. Super short. Really close. The Donners and Kesbergs also had to abandon a wagon each. Once across the Salt Lake Valley they took inventory and found they didn't have the supplies to make it to California. Well that's a problem. So they sent two men ahead to get help from Sutter's Fort in Sacramento. Where they found gold. Here you go. You probably you expected bigger applause on that. You were like this is a beer time. No I think all these people probably are bored of Sutter Fort. They all went there. They probably went on like three field trips there as a kid and they're like okay I get it gold. Okay

good gold. Easy my dear. What'd she say? Fuck someone. Fuck John Sutter. Yeah John Sutter. Yeah fuck him. We'll get to that later. That's a different episode but yeah let's fuck John Sutter. John Sutter worse than Larry. A little bit. On September 13th the party camp that a place called a read called the Mad Woman Camp. And he's just riffing right? He's like got no idea what's going on. Well he wrote that as diary because quote all the women in the camp were mad with anger. Yeah but not because of the location because of the experience. Boy what is it about this area that makes women go coo coo bananas.

It's like we're dying out here or something. Which mind you we are. I just could imagine the wives just like. By the way. You fucking what? Hey guess what. The Hastings fucking who? Guess what's gonna make all the wives happier. Naming it after that. Oh god you guys are so fucking crazy. I'm calling this Mad Wife Alley. It's like you motherfucker. Hey guys I know you're pissed but I want to let you know. Kind of an homage moment. In honor. On September 25th the party finally completed the Hastings cut off. I told you. Told you it's a quick shortcut. Told you it'd be easier. Sorry your family's dead. We're so much closer than we were.

It took 68 days way way longer than it should have. You know sometimes shortcuts aren't shorter. I don't know if you guys know that but they're not always. So now they're back on the original route but but insanely behind schedule. They're back on the original route. Yeah. Good work. That's amazing. Tensions ran high between members of the party. The Reed family teamster and the Graves family teamster got into an argument as their wagons became tangled together. Well that'll get them untangled. Reed tried to make peace between the men and pulled out his knife to cut the tangled ropes on the wagons. One of the teamsters

cursed at Reed and hit Reed on the head with his whip handle repeatedly giving Reed a wide wide deep cuts on his face. Wait he whip whipped him? He hit him with the the handle. Like a pistol whip I'm familiar with. I think he hit him with the handle of the. He's whip whipping. Whip handle. Yeah he's whip. That's gonna be a demeaning beating. Do you not respect me? Not really. I'm hitting you with a button my whip you little bitch. This is the fucking shit end. How much is it hurt? Not much but it's really out. The amount of time. It's volumous. You don't deserve the other end. Stab me like a man. No you little baby. So then that was

happening so Reed's wife rushed in to help. Oh that's gonna help his case. Leave my husband alone. I'm gonna beat him further with the butt. Lewis is like you want me to hit her? Yeah. So then the teamster stepped toward the wife and Reed thought the teamster was gonna attack his wife. Well he'd been whip cussed by the way. He's not sure what's going on. So he stabbed the teamster in the chest. Jesus Christ there's simpler places to start with that move. The teamster bled out pretty quick and died. Aw. The guy who was just hitting a guy in the face with the handle of a okay. Demeaning whip beating. Look we all have

weird favorites. Teamster 2 was my hero. Even though it was self-defense many in the party turned against Reed. But it wasn't really self-defense. He was like it was kind of half self-defense. Sort of he was he'd been beating with the butt of a whip so he was a little woozy. But then he was like hey you don't touch her. The fuck you fucking animal. I was gonna hug her. I was just trying to help you son of a bitch. People already didn't didn't like the Reed's because they were wealthy and it started out with a ton of supplies and animals plus Reed was stubborn and arrogant. So the group met and discussed it. Some wanted to take Reed to the law

once they reach California. Okay. Others wanted immediate months away. Yeah. Others wanted immediate justice. Lewis hated him and I think I know what Reed wanted. Lewis hated him and wanted him hung immediately in front of his friends and family. Well I mean come on. I'm German. Let it be horrible. Not only should we do it we should do it in front of his friends and family at supper. And we'll say this is your dinner and then we'll make him eat him in a goulash. Does that teach him? One of the parties said Lewis began to quote convert a wagon tongue into makeshift gallows almost immediately. Wait so some other German

psychopath just hears like a bit of that and is like I'll make the gallows. They're like what no we haven't nobody signed off on anything just yet. It's a hanging it's a hanging. Don't worry. I made an iron maiden. I got a whole set up over here. Didn't take too long either so it's pretty quick. It's weird how it was ready almost. Pretty quick. Didn't take too long. Before. Here we go. Just I think and then we're done. We drain all his blood into this and then we feed all. I'm not sure. I made a lot of stuff. There's a lot of options. There's so many options. We can do them all. We can do one. I don't know. Let's have a fun. Let's make a day of it.

That's what I say. In front of his friends and family. I think they have to be there. They have to be there for that pot. I want to see the look in his daughter's eyes. I don't want his daughter's eyes open. Don't let her shut up. Look at what I've done to your papa. You don't fuck with me. Instead they decided to banish Reed and they allowed him to have a single horse and that was it. The gallows guys like I mean okay. I said yeah sure give him a horse. Good call. Yeah who needs a severance package. Whatever. Most saw this as a death sentence but Reed just rode non-stop until he caught up with

the Donners who were two days ahead. Hey guys what are you doing? Shit's fine back there. Let's hustle up. Hustle up. I'm with you. They said it's a race and we need to beat them. By the way imagine catching up with the Donner party being like few. I'm home again. So Reed and another man from the Donner party rode ahead to Sutter's Fort with a letter asking for a team of oxen and supplies to survive until California. Okay on October 7th someone noticed the old Belgian man Hard Coop was missing. The gap doesn't help his name any either. Was missing. I mean I'm not gonna lie I

pretty much forgotten about Hard Coop. So he's been missing for me for quite a while. Now he was in Lewis's wagon and Lewis said he had no idea where he was. I don't know. It's just some old Belgian named Hard Coop just walking around lost. Yep. Okay. So someone backtracked several miles and found Hard Coop on the side of the trail. Hi. Hello. Hello. Should I keep going? His feet were bloody. Sorry. My feet are bleeding. So swollen they were split open. That's mmm they've got a real kind of bifurcated quality now. He said Lewis had kicked him out of his wagon to lighten the load and left him on the side of the road

days before. All right now I like Hard Coop now. Poor little Hard Coop with his penguin feet and flapping out about there. He said just stay here but I will. Hard Coop get over here. So watch your feet they really are it's like watching a crab walk. So he brings them back to the group but no family would take Hard Coop in their wagon. So they just left him again. Yes we sure did Hard Coop. Unfortunately yes it's so I know and remember when I found you you were very dehydrated in a worse state than this. Yes and I can't wait once again to have a Belgian pancake. Well hold on hold on there Hard Coop let me let me do

some of the talk. I just I'm so crazy I don't. I mixed up pancakes. Of course yes yes yes yes yes. Hard Coop I'm gonna. Hard Coop I'm gonna really need to jump in right here right now. I really miss you guys. Yeah of course Hard Coop. Group Hard Coop. No no no no no and by the way that would be called the hard group hug and no and let me tell you this. I I think you're fantastic and I love everything about what's going on in the new year. I think your feet are fantastic. I really do. They're going to scab. Don't point them near me. What I'm trying to say is that unfortunately after pitching some of the families about taking you in their wagon

unfortunately there's just no takers so we're gonna have to. There's 20 wagons. It would appear to be so but again I mean I can't I can't I can't jam me into one of them. I can't. That's just not my role here. My hands are tied. I can't do anything so sadly this is kind of a second goodbye. What. Yeah. Why. Well just cuz. Why the fuck. Yeah well I don't like that. Why did you fucking shit asses come back from me. Hargoup. Hargoup. Hargoup. Hargoup. I'm not gonna end. I was ready to die. I'm not gonna end on a sour note with you because you're a bunch of fucking shit asses and I hope you fucking die and eat each other up in the fucking

mountains. Well look look. Well. Well someone's English is coming along suddenly. Welcome to the curse of Hargoup. Okay all right all right you know what Hargoup we've tried and I was very nice to you and here take these grains. I'm rubbing my foot on your doctor's face. You leave her alone. That's Ada. She's so much better than that bitch Matilda. Poor Hargoup. So he just died out in the middle of nowhere. He just died out in the middle of nowhere. They're like okay bye. Hey we came to get you. Bye. You can now die further from the spot you were in before which I think is really nice for you. On October 14th Mrs. Wolfinger's

husband was missing. Okay. Everyone assumed Lewis had killed him for his money. If someone's missing like Lewis. What I didn't. I told you. You killed another fucking guy. I am 90% I did not. What does that even mean. I don't know. Did we not have a percentages yet. But they didn't do it. I think they didn't have any proof. So on October 16th the Donner party arrived in this year in Nevada. That's when the front axle of the Donner party wagon broke. And George cut his hand very badly making a new one. It slowly began to gangrene. Is this where the expression the wheels coming off comes from. Because that's pretty quickly deteriorating. Well we lost a wheel. He's got gangrene. Oh my

god. It was five minutes ago. The Donner started lagging behind the party. By now many families had lost most of their cattle to starvation or Native American thieves. Food and supplies were decreasing rapidly. In early November the Donner party moved with urgency. Sure. Hoping to make the steep crossing before the snow came. My god yes. Patrick Breen quote the weather was clear but a large circle around the moon indicated an approaching storm. Eight inches of snow fell that night. It's gonna be fine. It's not. It's not good. This was when Reed arrived at Sutter's Fort. Over weeks he put together a group of three men many

horses food and supplies. To head to where he hoped the Donner party would be. When the party arrived at Truckee Lake in Northeast California the snow was several feet deep. Okay. They decided to set up camp around the lake and hold on through the winter. They set up camp right near the lake? Well yeah there's actually abandoned cabins around there for whatever reason. Okay. That makes more sense. So some of them took the cabins others just had to make shelters. It's kind of like the beginning of a reality show where everyone picks rooms except your life depends on it. Some made lean twos. Lewis despite his injured. Some made

lean twos? Yeah we lean something up against whatever fucking tree or another building and then you cover it and that's what you're in. Relax survivor expert. You're the one who not watches naked and afraid. I live naked and afraid. I don't just watch it. I'm naked while I watch that show. And I'm terrified. The only way to watch that show is naked and afraid too. I watch it outside on an iPad in the cold naked. Poor Jose. He's with me asshole. So Lewis despite his injured and infected foot built this shed for his family. Okay. The Donner Party settled on the other side of the lake. Is that kind of like a dig at Hargoop? Like

he's got a fucked up foot and he's like I'm building a shelter. I don't remember why he got the fucked up foot did I say? He just fucked it up somehow. Okay. So the Donner Party settled on the other side of the lake and another cabin. Snow starts falling harder and harder. Snow chips are growing taller and taller. The wet firewood is impossible to burn. It feels like you're freezing. Yeah. Food went uncooked. Food went uncooked is not the right thing to say. And the food was not cooked. The only things to eat were roasted rice and a fatty glue like broth from boiling cow hides. Oh my god. So you can either eat

mice or drink glue. These are the options. Yeah. Fucking A. Welcome to winter. I'd rather be hard coop at this point. Yeah. In December snow shoes a bunch of them made snow shoes out of the remaining cattle hides. They were able to make 17 and they gave them to the strongest and healthiest members of the party. The hope was they could make it over the mountains and get help at a settlement. Okay. So they set out with six days of rations. Okay. On December 17th two returned to the lake exhausted. It's not good news at all. We just left. We left. It's really hard to get up there and the shoes are ruined. So five women nine

men and a 12 year old walked on. That 12 year old was like I want to die. I am ready to be a footnote. So fucking boring. Yeah. Yes. I see the snow. Fucking shut up dad. How great would it be to be able to take your 12 year old and put him in this situation for just 10 minutes. Why don't you go do that. Yeah. I'm set about the iPad. I'm going to use your imagination Todd and just think of stuff. You're out here in wonderful nature. Take it in. We're dying. Fuck you. Fuck you dad. Yeah. I said fuck you dad. I mean why did you take the Hastings cut off. Because it made sense. It was a shortcut. It was only 128 miles out of our way. I'm going to eat

your eyes. Oh I doubt that. Probably. Maybe. Might have happened. Love you son. I love you too dad. On December 20th. That's like a breakthrough for you. On December 20th they reached Yuba bottoms. I mean I know about Yuba but was that the original name of Yuba. Okay. But some snow shears. Why'd you look at me. I don't know. But some snow shears had now gone missing. Patrick Breen wrote quote tough times. Is that the end of the journal entry for the day. You know you're fucked when you're like tough. Tough times but not discouraged. Our hopes are in God. Amen.

Oh man. How great. You are so. That guy right now. God is great. Fuck you. The idea that God. It's just God won't let us die. No he will. It'll be. You remember Harcoop. Yeah. Remember Harcoop. Flapping on the rocks like a newborn penguin. Yeah it's over. On December 21st the rations ran out. Charles Stanton. Happy Christmas. Charles Stanton was too weak to head back to camp and he sat down in the snow. Pulled out his pipe and his last bit of tobacco and told the others to go on without him. Oh man that's by the way that's pretty that's a pretty great way

to go to just be like I'm just gonna smoke and die. But go ahead I'm just gonna have a bit of a pipe and then I'll just die here. Have a good day. It's his final words were quote yes I am coming soon. He was never seen again. Five days later on December 26th the group was completely lost in frostbitten. They drank melted snow. The men wanted to return to Donner camp. That's water by the way. Yeah. The men wanted... It's water. It's also melted snow technically. It's also water.

The molecules separate. Sort of friends. So the men wanted to return to Donner camp by the women angrily opposed demanding that they find help. Silly rationality. Then they all became so hungry they started hallucinating. And then someone suggested they eat one of them. Whoa. I have an idea. So they are tripping. My idea is we eat Frank. Because I'm fucking hungry. This is why we should have kept Hargoop around.

By the way you cannot get offended in the Hargoop story in this audience right now. So they're desperate and they talk about it and they agree to draw straws and decide who will be eaten. What? What? What about the dude who just smoked his pipe and died? Why not go back and be like this dude? He's still ready. He's dead. That was five days ago. They walked away from him. My timeline's off obviously. Yeah. I mean. Okay. So Jesus Christ. I'm also surprised drawing straws existed that early. But they couldn't do it. They couldn't

bring themselves to do it. They couldn't cut the small one. Yeah. So they decided to wait until one of them died and then they would just eat that person. Within three days Patrick Dolan died and was eaten first. Jesus Christ Dave. This is slow down. Three people died. Patrick was eaten first because he wasn't related to anyone. The idea of some sort of categorizing of this. Ugh. Okay. So they ate Patrick. My uncle and aunt in here. I want them to know I'd eat them first. That's awesome. Congratulations. I would eat

you guys first. That's awesome. What a heartwarming moment. My uncle was a history teacher and he came here tonight and I was like, you know my podcast is about? He's like, no. And now he's going to get eaten. What a turnaround. Talk about a Cinderella story. So they eat Patrick. They skewer. Hold on Dave. It says a lot about where we are that you just said. So they ate Patrick. It's actually my uncle's name which is hilarious.

Why is he leaving? You can't get far old man. I'll see you on the rock Hargoop. Uh yeah so they skewered him on sticks over a fire. Well that's like at least a nice way to do it. Yeah what else are you gonna do it? Yeah. Turn him. Rotate him. You know Patrick looked good before but he looks great now. He was a great guy too which I think is gonna really help. Yeah. I really liked him. I've never had a connection like this to the food I'm

gonna eat. I've never known them this well. I had a chicken named Bob that I used to have sex with. This is far different. What's that? What was the middle? No maybe I'm hallucinating. You better be. You never? Huh? Nothing. Alrighty. Uh they didn't look at each other as the eight Patrick. The shame yeah. That's awkward. That's a hard meal. Well what are you gonna do like? Holy fuck. Guys you must guys try the dipping sauce.

Guys you feel pure shame. You know shit's not a shame. You're not Anthony Bourdain. Oh no you're like Give me more glue. Give me more glue. I need more glue to pound it down with. Uh they also didn't look at each other when they cooked an eight 12-year-old Lemuel Murphy. But that's like veal you know what I mean? So this location would later be called the camp of death.

Finally a good name. So the meat from the bodies did not last them much longer and they began eating their shoes. What? Wait a minute who goes human to shoe? You go shoe to human. What the fuck? What? Well now we should probably eat the other things we could since Patrick and the teenager are dead and in us. What do we eat our shoes? I could really go for another Patrick though. Of course we all could

but we're not doing it unless we dive natural causes. Now everyone eat their shoes. Not the Nikes. All right. So much suggested killing and eating their two Native American guides Lewis and Salvador. By the way the of course of course of course white people are like should we eat the navigation? Should we? Is that crazy? Uh but another man was appalled by this and he warned the two Native Americans who ran away into the forest. Well there we go. We've got a real win-win.

Ah that guy's the next to get eaten by the way. Loose lips eat dips. Uh Lewis and Salvador were from a nearby Miwok village but they a few days later they keep wandering and they find Lewis and Salvador dying in the snow. The guy who the first guy who suggested they should eat people shot them without hesitation and then they sliced and dried Lewis and Salvador. Packing meat. Now they're now they're packing it.

On January 17th the Snowshoe group. I mean they're eating a lot of people. On January 17th the Snowshoe group reached Lewis and Salvador's Miwok village. Oh no. Hey. We haven't seen them. I have your son right here. They were so thin the Miwoks thought they were ghosts and ran away. By the way right move entirely. They are and run. Yes. Always run from white people. Yeah always run from I mean for sure always run from white people but they

show up gaunt and fully your friends take off. Hey no no we're not the regular assholes. We're desperate. So soon they realized that these were starving people and they actually cared for them until some were covered. They didn't have much they mostly just had acorn bread but they they shared it with these people have been eating friends and shoes. They'll take acorn bread. After a week two Native Americans led William

Eddie to Johnson's Ranch which is about 15 miles away. The settlers at Johnson's Ranch were absolutely horrified when they saw Eddie and they quickly formed a party to go help. They followed Eddie's bloody footprints to the Miwok village. This was very clear actually it's a clear path. Very clear. We call this a Hargoop. Eddie wrote an SOS letter to the magistrate of Sacramento who then wrote one to the magistrate of San Francisco.

He's really passing the buck. Can you do something? Let me go home. During all this at Truckee Lake things had been super fucked. People were dying of starvation. Lewis Kessburg Jr. died. Joseph Reinhart died and right before he confessed to killing Mr. Wolfinger. I killed Wolfinger. A gentleman who blamed on Lewis. That's a good way to go out. It's to be like I'm glad. It's like well we have closure. At least we have closure. Now Reed is still

Reed is still out trying to get people to you know go help. Sure. He hasn't given up hope. His first rescue attempt failed and he was now in San Francisco enlisting volunteers. He raised 1500 by supplies but on February 5th the first rescue party left Johnson's Ranch as rescuers in San Francisco kept organizing. At Center's Fort John Sutter offered three dollars to anyone who had joined the relief parties. Yeah. Way to go all the way there John. And a glass of water. I mean melted snow.

Reed then headed to Napa and Sonoma to recruit. So obviously everyone's like clearly everyone's like no. No okay. No I don't want to. To future wine country. And he just goes on a tour. This is also good. Do you have a reasoning. I'm here to actually some of my friends are in trouble but I actually want to really nail this down. This is that's good too. I don't know. It's a pino. It's great. Moscato a little too fruity. I'm not crazy about that. It's a little too sweet. Yeah soon I should get back but I really want to I want to lock this down.

Oh more crackers. Yeah. I just spit on my iPad. A rescuer quote. They gave the alarm that people would all die without assistance. It was two weeks before any person would consent to go. Oh my god that's pretty bad. They're gonna die if we don't get up there. All right we heard you. Stop. We're out. Finally we concluded we would go or die trying for not to make an attempt to save them would be disgraced to us in California

as long as time lasted. So two weeks later they're like all right this will be bad. All right we should probably do this. So on February 19th the first relief arrived at the Donner the Donner Party's campsite. Quote no living thing except ourselves was in sight. Oh no. We raised a loud hello. Oh that's. Hello friends. Then we saw a woman emerge from a hole in the snow. Hello.

Ow. Everything's on fire. As we approached her several others made their appearance. Hello too. In like manner coming out of the snow. Hey we're dying. We're the snow people. Hello. They were gaunt with famine and I never can forget the horrible ghastly sight they presented. Hello. The first woman spoke in a hollow voice very much agitated. She said are you men from California or do you come from heaven? Oh my god. Answer me ghost man.

Oh my god. The idea that you're in the state whether your two options are are you from California or heaven. There's no in between. What is it the clouds or the nearby. I would actually say California is heaven. And that's why Dave Anthony is running for governor of this state. The great state of California. My campaign slogan is let's eat the patricks. Down with the patriarchy.

Uh so the first relief rescued 23 people and left 31 behind. That's all they could bring out was 23. Well I mean good lord talk about lining up for her. I know. Can I go with the first with the first group. No okay uh we're full all right. Lewis's wife and daughter Ada were among the rescued. Lewis remained at the camp because of his injured foot. Ada died in route. Tamsen Donner would not leave her dying husband side. She wouldn't leave George who has the gangrene. Sure.

And the first rescue left her but she sent her children away to be saved. But a storm came with the rescuer who had taken the Donner children. So he left the kids in Lewis's cabin on the other side of the lake. Just the two of them? I think there's more than two. Okay but just all the kids in one cabin? Yeah she put him in that cabin. He's like I can't take you in this snow. So good luck your children it won't go well. See you later. By the way don't play with this guy's daughter he hits him. Oh she's dead never mind. Oh no yeah.

Play with her then. Too soon. It's so hard to play with a dead friend. Too soon. So Tamsen uh became worried. Why? And a man visited the other side uh visited the cabins on the other side looking to see if anyone knew uh if the Donner children had reached safety over there. And he found the Donner children in Lewis's cabin. And quote witnessed such scenes of horror and suffering that he believed their lives were in danger of a death

more violent than starvation. What? So I think he's hitting them. Oh shit. I can't imagine I mean that's all I can okay so Eliza Donner quote. I remember being awakened while there were uh I remember being awakened while they were by two little arms clasped suddenly and tightly around me and I heard Francis say no she shall not go with you you want to kill her. Nira stood Kessburg the man with the bushy hair. What is going on right now? In limping past our sleeping place he had stopped

and said something about taking me away with him which so frightened my sisters that they believed my life in danger and would not let me move beyond their reach while we remained in that dungeon. We spoke in whispers suffered as much as the starving children in Joseph's time and were more afraid than Daniel and the dead of lions. So I think he wanted to eat them. Oh what? I think he was trying to take one to eat eat eat. And the rest were like yo you're not eating her. Yeah and so they were just holding onto each other to try to keep but that's I

grew up like that. I mean that's just normal. Fuck. You guys stay in here one of you gets to come with me. Let's go outside and play acts. Yeah. They were but they were rescued by the second relief. Again Tamsen refused to go she stayed with George. The third relief was led by William Eddy and William Foster who came hoping their sons were alive. When they arrived Ms. Murphy said a single word to them. Dead. Ms. Murphy how about an

opener? What about hello? Dead. Dead. Oh hello. Both of the boys had been cannibalized. Ah Jesus Christ. Mrs. Murphy whose 12 year old was uh the one that died earlier was one of the first at the camp to cannibalize a body. But she accused Lewis saying he'd grown impatient wanting the boys to die. Took little George Foster to bed one night and killed him by morning hanging his carcass on the wall like a slab of game. Oh for fuck's sake. Both Eddy and Foster were outraged but Foster

then saw that Ms. Murphy was out of her fucking mind and believed and believed Lewis's claims of innocence. Eddy on the other hand swore he would kill Lewis once all this was over. Just then Tamsen Donner stumbled into the cabin after walking miles. Eddy and Foster offered to take her and her children but once she saw her children were gone and alive in good hands she returned to George. He died a few weeks later. When the third relief mission was completed they assumed George Samuel Donner and Mrs. Murphy had died.

Sorry sorry it must have been Tamsen uh that's just a change. So George Tamsen and Mrs. Murphy had died. I think that's all that was left up that's all they left there. Oh my god. That left uh oh no so wait that left Tamsen and Lewis as the only survivors. Okay so there's George Samuel Donner, Ms. Murphy, Tamsen and Lewis those are the survivors. Okay. None thought Lewis was worth risking their life for. Uh-huh. Finally. And Tamsen had already turned down three chances to leave so they weren't going to go back for her.

So they waited for the weather to clear up a month later and then they went and this was the fourth relief and they just saw this as like a salvage operation to get all the belongings. Okay. On April 17th the fourth relief arrived at Donner's family camp. Outside there was a kettle filled with human flesh. Oh Jesus Christ. Leftovers? George Donner's body. We're going to make sandwiches tomorrow. George Donner's body was covered in a sheet, his head butchered and brains removed. Oh wow. You really got to get in that skull. If you

get in the skull that's where the candy is. Stop talking now. Stop everything you're saying. That's where that candy is. So Tamsen was nowhere in sight. When the group got to Lewis's pad, this crib, they saw him with Tamsen's body preparing a meal of human lungs and livers. Oh Jesus Christ dude. Lewis was the sole survivor. All around the camp were bodies. I put on a couple pounds. Gotta shake off that Christmas weight am I right? Round the holidays. Am I the

only one who eats more of your family than you? I ordered a peloton. Oh good lord. Santa gave me stuff and my stuck in this year. Lewis also had $225 worth of gold from Tamsen in his waistcoat. So the rescue party interrogated Lewis. That must have been quite the interrogation. Oh yeah I'm sure. Tell me about all the body parts everywhere. Well I don't know what to tell you. He admitted that he'd eaten Tamsen. Okay I ate Tamsen. How's that to start? That help? But he said he did not murder her. He waited for

her to die of natural causes. I was a good guy about it. He confessed to taking the Donner's goods. Their gold, bundled stolen silks, jewels, firearms. But he said Tamsen had asked him to gather the Donner's goods and give it to her children. Well almost. On April 21st the fourth relief left with Lewis. On April 29th, 1847, almost exactly a year from their departure, the last member of the Donner party hobbled into Sutter's fort and was reunited with his wife. Who ate him? Who ate him?

Who immediately ate him? Of the 89 immigrants, 45 survived, 32 of them were children. The reeds and brains were the only families to survive without a single loss. On average the women survived months longer than the men. Okay I don't, that doesn't have to be, we don't have to make gender lines. William Eddy started searching for Lewis to kill him but James Reed talked him out of it. Tamsen Donner gained a cult following and became the the heroine of the Donner party. Her loyalty to George

and her love for her children were commended by men and women everywhere. Not so much for Lewis Kessburg. Interesting what happened? News of the Donner party spread across the nation in newspapers and by word of mouth. The cannibalism was shocking. Though many members of the Donner party ate people, Lewis Kessburg took the heat. Because he was really eating people. He was like, well, well, have you tried this? Where's the macaroni at the end of the buffet? It's really good. Try him with a biscuit.

You will not regret it. He was known as, quote, the savage who ate humans for pleasure. Journalist dubbed him the human cannibal and reported he murdered Tamsen Donner as fact. The human cannibal? I know. Yeah, no shit. You never see anything like this. This cannibal happens to be a human. It sounds good. I know but it's really. It's good. It's an extra word. It works. It's redundant. It's one more word. I think it works.

I get paid by words. A rumor began that Lewis went to bars and bragged about eating people. What? He was at bars like, you know. You guys ever eat like a Patrick or a Murphy? Excuse me? It's fucking great. Oh, this the guy who eats people? Yeah. Once you start, you're like, ah, this is fucking awesome. I eat, I eat people, like I did it up in the mountains, but now I'm just like, yeah, all the time. I like, so I hang out at the beach. What? And when people walk by, I bite them

and I just take a chunk out of their leg or whatever and they can't get it back because it's in my tum tum. You know what I mean? I'll take another shot. It's a nice bar. He's taking a shot of flesh. I want more. I'm a human cannibal. I'm a human cannibal. When he jumps in the pool, cannibal! The rumor was he was going to bars saying human meat was more delicious than California beef. Okay, all right. Now you hold on there, sir!

Imagine, like, and I kind of, I'm not trying to, I'm just going to say his headspace. This is his headspace. I try, I am now the guy who eats humans. I have now been, I am, that's, when people see me, they go, that's the guy who eats humans. Okay, I'm going to lean in. That's what I'm going to do. I'm so sick of being categorized as a freak that I'm now not, no longer was it survival-based solely. This is actually the better meat. This is the other white meat. Yeah, you guys, I'm telling you we should get like a people

farm. Yeah. And just raise people and we should ship that out to Oregon and see if they like it and if they like it. Well, by the way, right, by the way, the horror people feel over that is... Oregon? Well, no, no, no. Like, if we were to eat people and like have them in fields, like being like, hey, let us out! Yeah, like, like what cows do. Like, we have that. Like, we can see that. They just don't speak English, but they are out there like, hey! There's some beautiful cow ranches where you

drive up the five. Gorgeous. They look so happy. Yeah, no. So, they also said, the rumor was that he said Tamsen's liver was, quote, the sweetest morsel he had ever tasted. This fucking guy. Who, who's trying to own this? And then he said, and then he looks at me and he goes, Tamsen was the sweetest morsel every day. He fucking sent that to my face. Which is what brings me to my cookbook. How to eat your pals. The best meat you've ever had. Have you ever had a pal chili?

Pilly. A pilly. So, Lewis was tried for murdering six immigrants, but acquitted because there's no evidence. Well, I mean, good lord. Except for all the people. He was like sitting there like, there's nothing. There's no evidence, you say. I wonder where it's going to. But his reputation is a disaster. I wonder why. He sued a rescuer for slander and won, but only received a dollar in damages and had to pay his court fees. All right. I'll get you a side of ranch. In 1848, John Sutter hired Lewis as a

captain on a merchant ship. Oh, people are to follow this guy, for sure. Just seven months later, Heinrich Leinhardt wrote, quote, Finally, Sutter decided to replace Mr. Kessberg because so many passengers complained that the boat traveled so slowly down the river that when they ran out of food, the captain who was accustomed to human flesh might kill passengers who were asleep and eat them. My own feeling is that Sutter invented this story. Well, I completely understand. I mean, imagine, would you sleep and eat your arm?

Would you know? The boat's going slow. No, no, no, no, no, no. You're spaghetti. So after this, Lewis worked in Sonoma for General Vallejo before running a boarding house at Sutter's Fort. Okay. In 1851, he bought a hotel in Sacramento. Well, stop. This reinvention is probably not going well. And a rumor started in... This guy's just hearing whispers everywhere he goes. This guy eats people. So stop it. One time for a year. Enough. Lord. A rumor started in Sacramento that he was running a restaurant.

I mean, look, you eat a bunch of people. Sorry, that's going to stick with you. They didn't. That's the only way to survive. Yeah, but it felt like he was reveling a little more than everyone else. I mean, if you're last man standing, sorry, you're just going to be the guy who people are like. He sold the hotel, but it was destroyed by a fire the night before the purchase was official. So he got no money. No... Hey, let's not feel too bad for this fucking guy. No known cause of the fire. Next, he ran the Phoenix Brewery, and that became worth $50,000, but it was destroyed by a flood.

Okay. He was broke again. In 1866, Lewis moved to Calistoga and became a partner in a distillery. Life went well until his wife died in 1877. They had... Yeah, you know what? We're just going to go ahead and do without a burial. I'll take care of that. We figured the best way to save on some of these cremation fees you're talking about is to, we will get rid of it on our own. Last thing we want to do is take a plot or anything like that. We know a way that she will be with us forever and not... Something's not sitting right. Classic her. Nag, nag, nag, nag, nag, nag, nag. Even from a tummy. So they had four children and two of them were intellectually disabled.

Okay. CF McGlashan was writing, in writing a history of the Donner Party, said of Lewis's children, quote, Bertha and Augusta live with the father at Brighton Sacramento County. Both these children are hopelessly idiotic. Well, there's that empathy we've read about from the time. Bertha is 26 and has never uttered an intelligible word. Augusta is 15 and possesses only slight traces of intelligence. Both are subject to frequent and violent spasms or epileptic fits. The state provides for insane but not for idiots. They scream so loudly while going into their spasms that he cannot dwell near other people. He therefore lives isolated in a plain little house back of his brewery. Here he lives, the saddest, loneliest, most pitable creature on

the face of the earth. What the fuck? Now you feel a little bit bad for him. Yeah, I do feel bad for him. Well, not for him, for the kids. Yeah, no, no, it's not good for anybody. Well, yeah, but yeah, sure. So when Lewis was 65 years old, he was living near Sacramento and this author McGlashan found him and he said Lewis was afflicted by quote, misery and desolation, tormented by enduring accusations that he was a cannibal. The writer got... Well, to be fair, it's not even an accusation. Well, but they're saying he keeps doing it. I mean... Oh yeah, for sure. Well, again, I mean, you eat 30 people. That's... Well, see, now you're doing it. He didn't eat 30 people. He ate some people. Yeah, he had a good amount of people. Well, I don't know about 30, though. Look, dude,

he won. He won. Sorry. Sorry. This is the downside to living. That is actually what he said when they came to rescue him. I won, motherfuckers! Winner! I feel like a million or something, right? By the way, Dave, how long until there's a reality show of people eating other people for weight gain? Five years. Five years. That's why I love you. Max. Max. The biggest winner! Just eating other people? So, the writer got Eliza Donner and Lewis together. When he... When they saw each other, Lewis dropped to his knees and swore he had not murdered Eliza's mother, Tamsen. Eliza said she believed him and that she felt no ill will. But people still not believe Lewis and saw him as

evil personified. Lewis told McClashen, quote, that camp has been the one burden of my life. Well, yeah. I mean, you... Yeah, the place where you ate a bunch of people? Yeah. That's a fucking burden. You know, sometimes I feel like it defined me in a way. I do. I know it's wacky. Wherever I have gone, people have cried, stone him, stone him. It's tough, for sure. That's tough. That's tough. Mortification, disgrace, disaster, and unheard of misfortune have followed and overwhelmed me. I often think the Almighty has singled me out among all the men on the face of the earth in order to see how much hardship suffering and misery a human being can bear.

Well, then he takes a rip off a thigh. Lewis's descendants changed their family name when they settled in the Napa area. Today, there's only one person claiming to be related to Kessburg on file. He spent the rest of his life poor and died in 1895 at a hospital for the poor. His grave is unknown and unmarked to this day. But if you go over his grave, you can quietly hear. Why is the grave empty? There's just a napkin with a bunch of barbecue sauce on it. Yeah. Jesus Christ. How do you feel? Not hungry. I mean,

you know when you watch a movie that you watched, like that you used to love when you were a kid and you watched it as a grown-up, and you're like, I didn't even understand the movie. Like, there's so many parts that I'd be like laughing at. I didn't understand. That's what I feel like this is. Like, I know what the Donner Party is, but I did not know what the Donner Party is. I wonder if they still teach it in school. I do not think they do. Do they? They're busy teaching the new Patriot Day. I don't know what the value of it is, is like the hardship of, you know, travel. But it's also more of an idiot taking the wrong past story than it is a hardship. No, what it is is it's

the complications from doubling down on something that you know is probably stupid, which is kind of how we based our government. But would you be able to eat a person? Yeah. But that's a little too fast. Yeah, it's just, I mean, if I'm starving and you're a fucking dead meat thing, yeah, I'm gonna eat you. I'm gonna fucking cook you up. I was too. Yeah, you eat the guy. If I was dying about it, eat me. Do you have any doubt? I hope my dog eats me if shit goes bad and he's, you know, and he's got to live. Would you want Jose to eat you if he had to survive? I know that he would. I laid down one time. I took it. One time I took a nap and he was eating me. I was like, dude, my arms open. He was like, sorry, I didn't feel a pulse. I was like, those are veins. I've been

asleep for 10 minutes. You just look weird. You didn't see me yourself. I thought I'd just start eating foot up. Am I crazy? If you and I were in this situation, who do you think would eat who? Because I know my answer. Oh, I eat you hard. I have 100%. I absolutely eat you an arpeggio. 100% you'd eat me. I would eat you before you died. Yeah, you take the whip end. Beat me with a blunt whip end. Dave, no, I think there's a fruit tree. Shut up. I want steak. I like meat. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'll do that afterwards. Okay. I said, do you want to blowjob now? Jesus Christ. Yeah. That's not the story I heard when I was a kid. It's better. What do you hear when you're a kid? They're just- Just that they went up in the hill at the wrong

time and ate each other. They don't tell the backstory of they went the wrong way and listened to the fucking idiot. Yeah. It's full of the classic fucking dollop morons. The guy was like, I want to own California. It's the first and other people are like, I know better. Let's go the wrong way. And then, of course, the women are nuts. They hate this. They hate it when we stop and ask for directions. Us men will figure it out. Well, that was the, that was the, I wanted to do that one for a long time. Congratulations on a great story from your town. What a great journey. Congratulations. Sir, why aren't you clapping? Come on. Get your fucking hands together. Thank you. Jesus Christ. Do you have anything else to say? I was going to do a different one,

but it's, it's going to scare the fuck out of you. So I'll just save it for a- What? Bad? What? Yeah. It's bad. It's bad. You're all going to be fucked. It's all right. It's fine. Okay. Okay. Thank you guys very much for coming out. We really appreciate Sacramento. Thank you to Steve Fury's mother. Thank you guys. We appreciate it. See ya. The sources for this episode are the diary of Patrick Breen, one of the Donner party by Patrick Breen. It's his own diary. I said that. The difference stars above the harrowing saga of the Donner party from 2015 by Dan James Brown. The expedition of the Donner party and its tragic fate from 1997 by Elizabeth, sorry, Eliza Donner-Houghton. The immigrants guide to Oregon

and California by Lensford Hastings. Unfortunate immigrants, narratives of the Donner party by Kristen Johnson. History of the Donner party, a tragedy of the Sierra by C.F. McGlasham from the desk of Truckee C.F. McGlasham. His letters to Eliza Haughton, Donner party survivor, investigative report of a massacred wagon train, Truckee Tahoe adventures and more by C.F. McGlasham. Desperate passage, the Donner party's perilous journey west by Ethan O'Rarick. Encyclopedia of Frontier biography, volume two, a G.O. by Dan Thrap. The best land under heaven, the Donner party in the age of manifest destiny by Michael Wallace and the following articles. How Lewis Kessberg was branded the killer cannibal of the Donner party by Michelle Debezak. On mental

floss, how Lewis Kessberg was branded killer cannibal. Oh, I think I just did that one. Tracking down the truth of what happened to the Donner party, Los Angeles Times by Anna Gepenga. Charles F. Glasson Truckee Patriarch in the Sierra Sun by Mark McLaughlin. Beyond cannibalism, the true story of the Donner party, National Geographic by Simon Worrell and then a ton of websites that you can check out on the source list.