The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 404 - Jan Pieterszoon Coen (live)

Episode Date: November 19, 2019

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine Jan Pieterszoon Coen of the Dutch East India Company. Recorded live in Amsterdam.Tour DatesSourcesRedbubble Merch

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play a podcast that we recorded in Europe I'm not sure which one it'll probably be in Amsterdam which is about a bad man. And called it quote his jam-pad. I'm the fucking hippo guy. My name's Gary. Is it for fun? And this is not going to come to Tick-A-Lick Podcast. This is like Adam. I'm a five-part coefficient. Now hit him with the puppy. You both present sick arguments. No sleep, no hippo. Action partner.

Hi, Gary. No. Ronda in the corner. Fuck yeah. That's better. Thank you guys for coming out. We appreciate it. It is great to be in your town where you have marijuana. It's a nice breather. You're listening to the dollop. I just wanted to surprise you and let you know I got you some flowers.

Thank you so much. Very nice. More truth. This is a bilingual American History podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American Record Scratch, Netherlands History, to my American friend. You're with Reynolds who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. It's right here. And I learned today, looking up these names and how to say them, that you guys just have weird spellings for words that we say the exact same way almost. It happens. It happens. They do that in England. They love to throw you and stuff. They're like, flavor doesn't need a you. They're like, without it what might?

We've got you and Fliven and that phone. You want to do your announcement thing or is it just going to go in? No, it'll just go in. That was a little bit of behind the scenes stuff. Who? It's exciting. What's it about? Who knows? January 8th, 1587.

Who's nervous? Well, here we go. Jan Peterson Kuhn. Someone just... It was a guttural shit. It wasn't like a shit that was like, oh shit, it was like, oh shit. What's the name again? Jan Peterson Kuhn.

That's a little bit different. We would have said Kuhn, but you guys just forget about that E. Was born in Horn, a small seafaring community in the Netherlands. His father was a merchant, a ship captain, and a devout conservative Calvinist. It's a fucking hot combo. Talk about a dating profile. A part-time Calvinist. Not much is known about the family. In 1601, when he was about 13 years old, he went to Rome and studied trade at a Dutch trading business.

It's just fucking what you do at 13. Yeah, of course. It's not abnormal to hear that any longer. I'm like, why so long? Why didn't he get out there? What was he doing when he was six? Playing? Yeah, if his dad was a ship captain, he should have been working on a boat at six or five. To be honest, he shouldn't be alive until 13. This story should have never happened.

He should be the third son. So he was there for seven years in Rome, and he learned Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, French, and Latin. And learned all about the trade industry. And Cohn learned bookkeeping and became a skilled accountant. Despite his young age, he was responsible for the firm's financial affairs and kept meticulous records. So they had a 15-year-old kid just running this. Oh, hold on a second. Oh, my God, you guys. Do you have any receipts for any of this stuff?

I am 13 years old. This is bullshit. Yeah. So he did that for seven years, and at the age of 20, he, Cohn, joined the infamous Dutch East India Company. Why are you guys acting like the full house audience right now? Well, if you knew anything about history, you would know they're known as the good guys. I'm being misled. He was a junior merchant, and in 1607, he went on his first voyage with Peter Williams Verhoff's fleet.

At the Banda Islands, which is present day Indonesia. Verhoff gave a letter to the locals there that basically said their fate was already sealed, and they were going to start building a fort. So there's people living there, and they're like, so here's a document that says that we're taking this. Isn't it crazy how whites just would show up with paperwork that was meaningless to everyone? What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, so obviously this is ours. And by the way, calling it a fort also really stupid. We're building a bunch of forts out here.

It's going to be fun. Pillow forts, we're going to do a whole thing. We're going to put blankets over the couches and stuff like that. Well, now if I was a native on an island and they were talking about pillow forts, they'd be like, that sounds pretty good. Put them in their whites, you're like, what's the catch? Yeah, so a bunch of white people showed up at this island and were like, we're going to build a fort. And then the islanders invited Verhoff and two staff guys to a meeting to discuss it. And then they cut off their heads.

Oh my god. It's a bullshit meeting. Yeah, but that's one way to handle white people. Oh wait, whose head got cut off? Oh, the Dutch guys. Okay, five of those. Way better, way better, way better. All right, let's do this.

Yummy. Yeah, so they beheaded him and then... That was funny. Wasn't that funny how that could just turn like that? And then the Dutch got mad and they slaughtered an entire village. Well, we had a good run. Had a good run of laughter. Was it worth it?

Yeah, I should probably let you finish the whole thought, I guess. Although over 50 Dutch were killed during the fighting in the village, so that's cool. So Koen saw this, this is his first trip, he sees all this. And he's still a teenager. He's 20. He's 20. And this deeply affected and motivated him. Well, now the first part I get and the second part I find very troubling.

I find that very troubling. Why? It's got a little... Oh, my calling. What did he say? Did someone hear what he just said? Koen returned to the Netherlands in 1610 and submitted a report to the directors of the Dutch East India Company. He outlined trade possibilities in Southeast Asia and showed Koen's shrewd understanding of trade in the company.

He's got big ideas. Sure. It's an idea, man. Sure. I don't like it. He was promoted to chief bookkeeper and director of commerce in Banten and Jakarta. Okay. It all sounds good right now, right?

Yes, of course. But it's so temporary, I don't want to bask in it. Koen was often described as a cold and cruel man. The following is a... Is this your bio? There you go. My eyes are like angels. The following...

People say that all the time when they talk about me. They say that about themselves. Dave, this is... This better still be a bit. What's going to happen is at some point it's going to stop being a bit and it's just going to be a real subtle transition to where I'm like, Dave's out of his goddamn mind. Well, if you'd call me angel eyes this would go a lot better. I think it'll go this way then.

The following is a physical description of Koen from one of his famous portraits. Okay. Jans Peterson Koen was a man of impeccable grooming from his slick hair to his neatly trimmed Van Dyke beard. From his coiled mustache to his expensive clothes. His lean and hungry face is dominated by a large hooked nose and eyes that do not betray a shred of humor or liveliness. Is he dead? His eyes are his most distinguishing characteristic. They do not hint at warmth, forgiveness, humanity or empathy.

Who is saying this? I should have written that down. I forgot to write that down. Who the hell is giving this description? Just someone who looked at the painting and was like, well, this guy's fucked. They're looking at a painting and feeling like that. His eyes do not betray himself, but if you look, there's no humor or honesty inside of anything near him. The eyes are hard and shiny like little pebbles.

This guy's masturbating. Overall, the painting conveys an impression of humorless arrogance. I'm going to finish. But still, like we said, he's a master of financial tactician. He moves higher and higher up in the company ranks. In 1614, he submitted his treatise titled Discourse of the State of India. So it's his vision for the direction the company should take. Judging by his eyes, I don't like his vision.

His knowledge, confidence and forthrightness impressed his superiors. They said the company should expand trade and competing European countries should be fought hard, which would take a larger fleet. And Dutch settlers should populate trading posts. And then that's how you monopolize. There's people there, so that's a... Yeah. He'll be fine.

He was promoted then to director general because they were so impressed with this thing where he was like, let's just fuck everything, let's just take it all. So he's just insane and they're like, this guy's great. Yeah, he basically took out like a big marker and just wrote, let's take all this shit on the wall. And they're like, I like this guy. So he is now the second highest company official in Asia. He's only 28.

And then he's made the fourth governor general of the East Indies. So he's fucking killing it. A little props to this guy. I have a feeling he will be killing it. For a little props to this guy for... Nope. Coon claimed the spice trade was essential to the economic prosperity of the Netherlands and that the company's success would weaken Spain's ability to dominate territories in Asia.

So the better the Netherlands are doing, the worse Spain is doing. Right. Same as today. Right. Right. Sure. Coon argued that the company had a legitimate right to be in the Spice Islands because it acquired them by conquest. Okay.

Well, and all right. So I mean, he's just like, we took them. So there are ours. Well, because Spain and Portugal relied on quote, ancient papal proclamations. So they're saying they get it because the Pope said they did. And he's saying we're better than them because we fucking take shit. Right.

Okay. That's one person clap. That's what we call a movement in America. So... It's hard to know who to root for there. Yeah. Well, I know who I'm not rooting for. Coon demanded the company monopolize Cloves Mace.

Can I be right or is that a change? Okay. Mace. Mace? That's before they had pepper spray. You just threw it in someone's eyes like it was a leaf. And nutmeg. Nutmeg's biggie.

Sure. These guys love it. Yeah. Because it only grew in a really small amount of areas. Nutmeg? Yeah. Okay. And Cloves.

They only grew on these islands. Sure. Okay. Yeah. I'm someone who's lived my life comfortably without nutmeg being a staple. So... I go through about a pound of nutmeg a month. We are different.

It's crazy. Oh, yeah. I go to the nutmeg store. That must be happy to every time you walk in. Oh, there he is. He's here. Thank God he's back. I was going to say.

Woo. Is your pound, Mr. Anthony? Yeah. Would you like a spoon? So he wants these monopolies to happen. He believed the company had to crush all European competition and native opposition. Coon proposed his ideas to the highest authorities in the Netherlands. They thought it was fucking absurd.

Okay. They're like, they don't... They do not like those. Yeah. They all thought it was crazy. Like he's like, let's go to war. Let's take everything. Let's do this.

Right. But he still convinced them to do it. Now, that may be because Coon considered any challenge to his position as a personal attack. He was known for treating all interactions as if it were a battle to the death in which only one person could survive and win. So he's... A good conversationalist.

Well, and he's... He's the overreactor. He's... He's the guy... Yeah. The guy you start talking to and then after a minute you go, I don't want to talk anymore. Yeah. I...

Yes. Okay. Sure. That's the guy. The guy you just don't... He's the guy that's like, hey, you got a funny mustache. The guy is with this guy. This guy...

He's an overreactor. Well, that seemed like I got personal. No. No. No, you're... That's what you... I'm... You're...

I did both parts. But not... You're the... I'm the guy... I'm the... Just keep going. Good day. This is why you can't grow mustaches.

By the way, Dave wears a head mic now. So I just want you guys to know. This is... Yep. I'm sure that has to do with anything. So those who knew Coon feared him and his quote, grim pronouncements. Okay. It said that in a book.

I couldn't figure out what the fuck it meant. I can. But I just love it that he has a lot of grim pronouncements. I bet you he's just like, we're going to kill a lot of people. Yeah. Ugh. Jesus. Relax.

What's with your eyes? Do you blink? Yeah. You little pebbles. Those who worked under him disliked him because he had no tolerance for anything other than hard work and defeating the enemy. All right. Any man who lacked these qualities was a failure in his eyes.

Well, they're weird eyes, so... His subordinates described him as humorless, without any human warmth, ruthless, and vengeful. So this guy is just pure evil? Nobody likes him. Nobody likes working for him. He's just an evil prick. He's not great. He's got dead eyes.

He's got a real nice beard. He wears nice clothes. And he's got nice clothes. Okay. Yeah. He's not great. Right. He demanded they live the same as him, sober, hardworking, joyless.

Yeah. This is everywhere. Anybody who works under him in the company has to live sober, hardworking, joyless lives like he was leading. Joyless lives as part of your pitch? Well, I don't think he said joyless lives, but I think that's what they... I mean, it's insinuated. Come on, boys.

We're all going to live a joyless life this year. I don't think... Get it in for the team. No, that's not how you start a joyless life movement. All right, guys. Get our hands in. Let's have some fun. It's going to be real shit.

It's going to be real joyless. It's going to be shit. Joyless on three. Joyless. I'm sure that's what it's like working at Taco Bell. Yeah, but you get to spit in food. I only did that to the cops. I'm kidding.

You guys know I love my officers. Also, he was not really a big talker. So this is just... So he's just like an aloof prick. Yeah, he... He's the guy that if you had to go talk to him, you're like, oh, this is going to be the worst. Yeah, I think to me he sounds like someone who has a mental illness. Right.

And if I had to compare it to someone, I would say like a banker. That helps me. That's good. That helps me. Like a guy in charge of a hedge fund. Right. Okay. So his eyes just turn into dollar signs and he's soulless.

Yes. Right. Okay. So, you know, the Koch brothers. Sure. Well, I mean... Yeah, the oligarchs. Right.

We have a lot of them. Our leaders. Our faithful leaders. We're going to get killed on the way home. Yeah. So Kuhn was serving under three generals who he thought were too lenient because they respected the rights and traditions of native people. Too much.

I mean, you know, not a lot because it is 1600s. Right. Well, that really... I mean, that says it all, right? Yeah. He's like, you're too sweet to them. They're like, we've been horrible. We're really...

I just cut off a guy's hands. Yeah. He's still got stumps to use. So he considered Southeast Asian natives dishonorable, corrupt, and untrustworthy, although that was like basically a common opinion at the time. And based off of very little, I'm sure. Well, they had gone there and they tried to kill them. Yeah.

Right. Of course. So they're like, they're really resistant to giving us the land and dying. They have been unbelievable roadblockers. How corrupt is this one wanting his own land? Good Lord. The look on his face when I said, your stuff's mine now. But what's it Kuhn apart from the others?

Oh, I know. Was that he also despised the Dutch? So he... Yes. Put it together. I want to see how your mind works. Well, he just... He wants nobody.

Yeah. He hates everybody. Right. He hates all of the other countries. He hates all of the natives that are out there. He hates everybody living in his country. Right. Yeah.

And the truth is in the hardest part, Dave, I think he hates himself. Well, that's... I think what I... Someone just needed... You know what's... Yeah. Someone needed a... Someone needed a...

A lot of... could have been saved with a hug. Yeah. By the way, can you imagine trying to hug him like if you're like, that is what he needs. Skin starts to melt. Oh my God. Oh my God. He's bubbling. He's bubbling.

They're just the little demons like... What the hell was that? It was inside of him. Look at that beard. So he hated the Dutch. He hated the Dutchman's love for alcohol. He couldn't have not touched a drop of alcohol. He also severely punished men for playing dice.

So the idea was what? You just sit and stare until there's time to kill? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. He looked down on the poor morality of Dutch ladies. Sex outside marriage was a big no-no. Yeah.

So this guy... He's not fun. Nope. He'd believe in it if he drank. Yeah. The three generals he served under also honored the treaties with England, which Kuhn hated English. They were honoring treaties.

He hated English, hated their trading company. Everything he could do to make problems for them, he would. Okay. How about this? Tell me when he likes them. We're going to get to that. I'll just go in and assume there's... We're going to get to it. There's one thing he really likes.

Oh, he's going to see his reflection. Makes two things. He's going to see his reflection in a river. Why do I do it? Why do I do it? Because his reflection looks back. You need to love you first. You're right, River Me.

Let's get shit-faced, huh? Toast. To us, buddy. So, I got drunk with River Me earlier. What? It's not River Me, look at my reflection. It's not River Me, and we hang out. He's a good guy.

We all got River People. Oh, shit. I don't think so. Let's go beg some married women, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah! Whoo! So, in 1613, an English East India company official, John Jordan, asked,

Coon, if his fleet could go to Ambon Island to trade cloves. And Coon said no, and ordered Jordan to abandon any plans to trade with the island. Coon also told Jordan he was not allowed to negotiate trade directly with the natives there either. This dude is for sure going there to do all this by himself. Coon then sent a notice to the Ambon Island villagers stating he would attack and burn their entire village if they traded with the English. So, don't ask this guy permission.

No, right, yeah. Because he's super not down. He met with Jordan, and they just ended up insulting each other and made no progress. Coon... Sounds like a good hang, though. Coon kept berating Jordan until he eventually admitted defeat and sailed back to England with no cloves. Man, first of all, I thought you were going to say no clothes, which is even better.

That's how you dress someone down. But... So, he just yelled at him until he left? I mean, basically. That's how you... I mean, that is... That's quite a superpower. Well, at this point, he has a better reputation.

People are a little bit, you know, intimidated by it. But still, nobody will, like, hang in there. Everyone's like, oh, fuck it. We don't need clothes. Let's get out of here. That is the worst. River him real sweet. So the Dutch are controlling the cloves, but a clove monopoly is not enough.

He wanted to control all nutmeg trade in the Banda Islands. It's hard to not find these goals funny. It's just hard to not be like... Like, he's got all this ambition, like he's obviously an evil fucker, and it's over nutmeg. Gentlemen! We will own all the nutmeg. What was the last part? You said something at the end.

What did you say? Nutmeg? Nutmeg. We were... Sorry. That's it. That's it. If I may jump in for a second.

We were sort of thinking we were going to do more gold and jewel... Paprika! Yeah, no, that's great. That is great. And, wow, that'll really bring a dish together. But we were thinking sort of long-term kind of Kingdom-ish goals, sort of money for my children and my children's children, you know? And again, nutmeg, so good.

I cannot imagine Eggnog without it, but... We are going to bake. I hope there's more to your thought. I really... An empire of bakers! Okay. I mean, we came to... It will rival Mongolia.

No. Think about it. That's all I'm thinking about is like... I'm just thinking about what I left, because I mean, I just left like a regular life, you know? Yeah. Without nutmeg. Yeah.

Well, I... Now you have it all. No, I... No, no, no, no. Boats full. Yeah. I mean, my wife is really going to be pissed. I mean, she's really...

She's going to be furious, honestly. When you're in a mine, and you're picking, and you hit a vein of nutmeg... I don't think... Now, I'm... That's very... That's a very... That's a red flag. I mean, what are you...

And the nutmeg is pouring out, and you're thinking, God, I hope there's cinnamon too! I know, Victor. We're rich! I mean, I guess. It's just, it's my life. We're going to have muffins. Oh, my God. Okay.

Uh, so he wants to control the nutmeg. The Tony Soprano of Spice. So the Banda Islands, it's the... This is the only country in the world that has nutmeg. I know. Who gives a shit? I should have looked it up, but I think of it, if I recall correctly, it helps preserve stuff.

Right? Right. Can we just act like that's a thing? Sure, yeah. Yeah, that's right. To make this make more sense? Yeah, yeah. Without nutmeg, your nutmeg goes bad.

So local merchants from two islands traded with English merchants. In 1615, General Gerard Reintz, a Dutch East India company, oh, that's not the right word. Well, so he brings troops to IE Island, but the Bandonese had gotten weapons from the English that the Dutch didn't know about, and they rolled in and the natives were like, oh, yeah, it's a prize, and we've done it. And we started chitin' them, and they were surprised and defeated. So this general is driven off the island, and then he just came back to Amsterdam and quote, died of humiliation.

He made it back to die? Yeah. Like he got to the shores and was like, I have an illusion. Yeah. It failed you. Well, I mean, imagine if they're like, how did it go? You're like, everybody under me got killed on nutmeg island. Well, look, I mean, I'm not on board with the plight to begin with.

It's after nutmeg. So I'd be like, yeah, that was stupid. We don't need it. But I... So you're just having plain eggnog, like that's just who you are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I'll be very... You should slam some eggnog without nutmeg. I'll figure it out. Wow, I guess. Yeah. Do you shit on a Christmas tree? Like, what are horrible things do you do at Christmas time? Dave, that's not fair.

That's a leap. I don't know. Kuhn was infuriated by the lack of foresight. He sent a message to the High Council in the Netherlands, quote, the English want to reap what we have sowed and they brag that they are free to do so because their king has authority of the Netherlands nation. So he's angry that the Netherlands are working, you know, they're working with the English. Right.

Yeah. Does not care for it. Okay. Dave is sent to invade the island a year later. Kuhn wrote a letter to English troops stationed there, quote, if any slaughter of men happened, the Dutch will not be culpable. So I used to have a friend in college, I used to have a friend in college, Jesse Aguilar, and we would, we drank and on nights when we would drink tequila, he would line up the

tequila shots and he'd look at me and he'd go, okay. So remember, I'm not responsible for what I do on tequila. And then we drank and he, it's the same thing. Right. It really is. Because he, it turns out he was still responsible. Right. Yeah.

It's a terrible omen to be like, hey, your night's about to suck. I'm gonna go crazy. By now Kuhn had a frightening reputation, so the English just bailed. Well, at least the English are consistent. They have, he sends a note saying, hey, look, if, if I massacre you guys, not my fault. So beautifully English. And then they're like, what does it say? But it's very rude in what way?

He says, if we, he's stretching, that's fair. He says, if we stay here, you'll kill us. Whip us, go. Carry me. The last part I'm not doing. Hurry. So they left the, the Bandernees to fend for themselves. And when the Dutch arrived, they just took over and there's a fort that the English

have built and the Dutch renamed it Fort Revenge. So they're like, Lord of the Flies level. And then so Kuhn wanted Run Island, the only other nutmeg producing island. So he wrote to the Netherlands Council, quote, if by night and day proud thieves broke into your house, who were not ashamed of any robbery or other offense, how would you defend your property against them without having a recourse to maltreatment? Isn't that the letter that the natives should be writing to him? Yeah.

I mean, that's a point. He has that thing where he like calls you out on his flaws. Yes. It's just like, I hate when you get angry. It's like, you are shouting right now. This is what the English are doing against you and the mulekus, mulekus, mulekus. Do you have a stroke? It's a hard word.

Consequently, we are surprised to receive instructions not to do them bodily harm. If the English have this privilege above all other nations and must be nice to be an Englishman. So he doesn't like that he can't just kill English people. He's upset with his government because his government has treaties and things. He's like, don't go killing English. All the red table got killed. Right. Okay.

And he's mad about it. But anyway, he's gone like three days without nutmeg. So this is just like starvation talking. Like that's what I would say to him. You know, I don't think this is about us adding this is bad nutmeg. Coons desire to use violence at a dangerous precedent within the Dutch East India Company. Some company officials and council members disapproved, but he got his way anyways. They justified it by saying the laws that guided Dutch society didn't apply in the

Asian islands. Okay. That's. Yeah. So you have rules here in Amsterdam, but then when you leave outside, right, you can kill people. Right. It's like, right.

It's how our politicians pay taxes, essentially. Well, it's actually how America works. Now we kill each other. Never mind. The governor general in Southeast Asia resigned from his post in 1617 because he didn't think he was getting paid enough. Okay. So when he took over on April 30th, 1618 became the most powerful official in the company's

Southeast Asian operations. He's only 31 years old. Holy shit. All right. He wanted to make the Netherlands an empire that rivaled Rome. Never a good thing to come out of anybody. Nope. Nope.

That's a weird comparison. As the latest victims of Romism, don't strive for it. It's a downfall. Yeah. And when it starts, it collapses pretty big. Oh, we're all going to die. So as governor general, Kuhn refused to acknowledge native countries, cultural and religious trade traditions.

This guy, just new level of prick, right? Yeah. He also annoyed everyone in the trade industry by being rude and constantly arguing with the English. Of the English, Kuhn wrote, quote, one day they threatened to sail to Banda in force and take revenge. And the next day they say they will attack our ships at sea. They expect to get even by reprisals in the channel at home, and they are going to break

our heads. Daily, they come up with new threats, which clearly shows that they are quite confused. He's doing it again. Yes. He's projecting. Yes. But Kuhn really hated Benton. That's where the sultan commanded Kuhn to stop fighting the English in his city.

Okay. Kuhn became so upset that he removed the Dutch East Indie Company headquarters from Benton 80 kilometers east to Jakarta, where he was welcomed by the prince, and he built a little small Dutch fort on the Siliwong River. Okay. And setting up a little shop. Sure. Yep.

For good things, surely. The English had kept a large presence in the area since Sir Francis Drake arrived in late 1500s. Sure, obviously. Yep. And they had one of the local chiefs by offering them protections from other Europeans. Very nice. A diplomatic angle.

Particularly the Portuguese who were bad, Ronaldo, all that stuff. Wait, Dave, sorry. What year are we in? 1600s? Yeah, but we... And what are you talking about? Brazil's sovereignty? We dippined it to 2000, 2015, 2016 a little bit.

Okay. If you want to go earlier, we can go to Luis Figo. No, it's just weird for you. No, I don't want to obviously do any of that. But I think you're taking... José Mourinho. I've named all the Portuguese people I know. Congratulations.

Now what? Well, now I have to start googling. So, Kuhn decided that he had to expel the English from his new favorite island. The English were led by Sir Thomas Dale, and they seized a Dutch ship, which they were going to use to bargain with. Bargain with? With the Dutch. They're like, hey, we have one of your ships.

What are you going to give up? Kind of deals. Right. But then the English accidentally burned the ship. Yes! So, now if I may cast the leader of the English, it will be Hugh Grant. Oh, no, I was like, oh, gosh, I can't believe what I've just done. Bloody hell, we've got the whole thing on fire now.

Oh, look, mini-driver. So Kuhn ordered that a small... Oh, how did they... On fire on accident? Yeah, there's no... Okay. Nothing that says why. Sure.

Kuhn ordered that a small English factory nearby be burned down, and Sir Thomas Dale demanded that Kuhn surrender. Okay, but there's no reason yet, right? Well, yeah, they're just kind of having to stand off. But Kuhn is outmanned. Okay. Still, he refuses, and then fighting breaks out on January 2nd, 1619. Cannons are shot, you know, Smokey Harbor, big fighting.

Hundreds of innocent people are torn apart by splintered wood. Just good times. Yeah. No, for sure. Good stuff. The Dutch are losing the fight. That's tough, yeah. The next morning, three more armed English ships arrived, and Kuhn ordered his men in

Jakarta to defend the English depot and then signals all the ships to leave. He goes, let's get out of here. Kuhn does? Yeah. Okay. So he'd never backed down from a fight before. Right. So he is humiliated, which just makes him more angry.

It's a shame. That's tough. So he regroups in Malukas and put together a stronger fleet with ships from other Dutch training posts in the area. He's frustrated by the lack of backup that's coming from the Netherlands, and he wrote to the council. Oh, here we go. Let's do it.

Just get a pen out of his hand for fuck's sake. And now, see what has happened. He's like the old lady who writes into the paper. And then the cars are going so much faster now. There's a dog next door and he won't stop barking. I'm sick of handbags. What? You heard me.

What was the last? I'm tired of handbags. You put them on your arm, not your hand, maybe your wrist. Just carry your stuff. No. I didn't expect to be investigated. Yeah, it's weird when people actually listen to what you're saying. Yeah.

And so, what I always thought I wanted was to be heard. And then the second I was, I realized I don't even know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it is. I'm sick of being talked to. Okay. Dear paper.

Okay. Here's his letter. And now we see what has happened. I swear to you that the company has no enemies who more hinder and harm it here than the ignorance and thoughtlessness which reigns among your excellencies and defies understanding. Now these are his bosses. Yeah. I mean, you are just like, dude, get the fuck out of here.

He's constantly sending letters just shitting all over his bosses. And they're like, oh, we've got to help him. Yeah, they're all, they always go like, but he's, yeah, I mean, he's cool and he's killing people for us. So luckily Sir Thomas Dale, the English guy, is a complete idiot. Good. Good. We've got our hero.

So when Coon took, so when Coon fled, he should have pursued him because he had a mount man and a gun. Right. And instead he was like, ha ha, fancy a cup of tea. Right. And he stayed in Jakarta. Right. And then he attacked the Dutch fort.

And then internal conflicts start happening between the local forces. Like if there's a bunch of different, you know, people there, groups. So the Prince in England start fighting over how to divide the spoils after the Dutch leave. And then the main Sultan brought in his fleet to ensure neither the British or the Prince could benefit after the Dutch lost. So it's three people now fighting over the spoils. And then they start fighting.

And the spoils are nutmeg. Yes. Right. Just want to hit that nail one more time just to remind everybody before anyone gets too invested in what we're talking about. This is nutmeg. Yes. Right.

And so then the Dutch roll in and they're able to regain their ground. Okay. Right. So then the English flea. The English are just not good at this. No. The English flea is the... Quick, light our boats on fire.

The English Tegave is the Sultan's fleet's trade to overthrow the local Prince. So Kuhn comes back to Jakarta in May. He marches in thousands of troops into the fort. And on May 28th, 1619 ordered an attack on the locals. Okay. And the Prince is like, dude, I asked you to come and I thought we were buddies. And he's like, oh, I don't care. I'm Dutch.

I don't have buddies. Yeah. I'm here for the spice. Right. And so... We're the spice boys. So the Prince is a mad and he sends his troops to fight the Dutch but they just easily kill them.

Okay. Yeah. So Kuhn conquered a 3,000 person village, burned down almost all the buildings. He's totally in control of Jakarta, which became the Dutch East India Company's regional headquarters. It was renamed Batavia after the Batavia tribe of the Roman Empire, which he believed were the ancestors of the Dutch people. So he is way in on the Rome thing.

Yeah. He's deep fucking in. Right. Yeah. He was also pursued again by Jordane. Okay. So Jordane came and comes back. He had sailed off after the first fighting happened to fix his ships and then he rolled

back in... How much time in between? I don't know. It's like... Not too much. Not too much, but like a month or so, like there's some time in between. But he had to go fix his ships. So Dale had also gone to fix his ships because they've been fighting with the locals.

Sure. Well, Dale keeps lighting his on fire. Yeah. So they found Jordane off Patani Island and attacked him. And Jordane's losing really bad. So he comes out on deck and he starts waving a white flag of surrender and Dutch go ahead and just shoot him. Sure.

Right. Oh, hurry. He's got a flag. Okay. And the Dutch... Was it clear what that symbol meant at the time? Yeah, they were pretty. It was.

Everybody was pretty on board with what that meant. Okay. Right. So... Sure. Except the Dutch, apparently. Right. Except for Koon.

And so the Dutch said it was an accident. Of course. Because after you... Well, he got distracted. He was waving a flag. It's scary. And the English said, quote, the Fleming spying him most treacherously and cruelly shot at him with a musket.

So they knew. It was pretty obvious what had happened. Right. They just killed him. Koon wanted... So now Koon's got Batavia, as he calls it, and he wants it to be modeled after Amsterdam. Okay. Because why would you want it to be somewhere else and not have it be like the place you're

from? No. The move here is to franchise your place. Absolutely. Yeah. Just turn it and... Yeah. This is now the home of the Whopper.

Welcome to Amsterdam, Jr. He created a network of narrow streets and canals through the jungle and named them after places in the Netherlands. He even had the canals lined with flowering tamarind trees, designed closely built brick quarters and constructed classic Dutch drawbridges to make it seem really like home for Dutch traders. So he just misses home. I guess.

That's a lot of work. It's just such a weird thing to do. Yeah. It's very weird to be like, we're going to make where I live. Right, right? But I guess he wants Dutch traders to come down, so make it more like home. Sure. Yeah.

Well, unlike Amsterdam, crocodiles would often walk around. Sorry. Wait. Well, that's... This is... There's a problem here. There's a big problem here. But man, that would be a crazy cool addition to this city.

If they were just... Not with the weed just smoked here. No way. Oh, cool. Oh, my leg. Okay, so there's a difference. There's some differences for sure. There's crocodiles.

Occasionally, crocodiles would just enter houses. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Sure, of course they would. So with that kind of thing, and there's other animals, obviously, there's a lot of fear and stress associated with living in Batavia. Yes. Right? But Batavia is just a trading post with nomadic merchants.

The Dutch immigrants Koon wanted never actually arrived. So he did all this to entice people to come live there, and they were like, yeah, it's great. There's just crocodiles. Yeah. So it's a really stupid move. And again, you're after nutmeg? Yeah, this is all despite him.

It looks really cool. Yeah. You know? No, absolutely. Batavia has a notoriously unhealthy place to live at this point, and everyone knows it. Dutch sellers said that the quote, it was not a place for the sick to heal, but for healthy men to fall ill and die. Well, someone's got a slogan for the billboard.

Why is that? Just because... There's not just that, but there's the fevers and the sicknesses, and that's a jungle. It's not... I keep thinking of this very beautiful Amsterdam place. Well, I mean, in reality, there's a jungle fever. Yeah, it's still a jungle. It's Amsterdam and the jungle.

Right. Well, now that I like. Well, we have a movie. Now that I like. We have a movie. I like that a lot. So tropical diseases were not familiar to European doctors, and they're rampant there. Battery rates are very high, particularly due to malaria.

The Dutch were unaware that malaria was transmitted by mosquitoes. That must have been vexing. And Batavia was surrounded by tropical swamps dense with mosquitoes. People died so often in the Batavia colony that the hospital was known as the death pit. My guess is that wasn't a marketing strategy. No, we're calling it the death pit. Where you go to die slowly, unless a crocodile comes in, drags you away. How about this?

Yes. Back-up pitch. Hospital. I don't know why someone would go there. If I saw a death pit, I'd be like, that's interesting. That's weird. See, I'm the guy who's going to go, I don't want to go there. I'm looking for a hospital.

That's why I think that would work so well, you know. I love death pit. And I think if hospital's taken, you know, if someone already has that... Have you ever seen a man shit blood until he dies? I'm going to get out of here. I'm going to get moving. I don't want to do this any longer. Because I'm thinking about putting up a bar too.

Well, all right, I'm back in. Let's talk. Kuhn complained there weren't enough women in Batavia. Well, what does it matter if there are women? He's such a prick. Everybody likes fucking... I feel like this guy doesn't. Even the bad ones.

I feel like this guy would only fuck Nutmeg. Oh, no. He fucks... Or I feel like he would fuck someone named Meg and... He's someone who fucks eyes open and just keeps going, yeah? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah?

Yeah? Yeah? And then after he goes like this... Yeah? Was it good for me? He demanded, quote, higher quality settlers. Well, now wait a minute. What?

David, I don't like his language. And wrote to the council, quote, everyone knows that the male sex cannot exist without women. This guy is just... He's writing a fuck letter? He's also never heard of jail or just buttholes. Send some buttholes! He's just demanding glory holes.

Yes, it's a piece of wood with a hole in it. And magically an orifice behind it. No, those are people, but... No, no, no. They're mortals. They're magic holes. They're like little stargates you can fuck. If you're...

Hey, I'm Ted. Oh, my lord. Good the whole... Oh, I thought this... But hello, Ted. You're really good at this. If your excellencies cannot get any honest married people, do not neglect to send underage young girls.

Uh, Dave, I mean... Thus do we hope to do better than with older women. Oh, my... Well, I can't fuck someone who wants to talk to me. What am I going to do? Have a conversation and then fuck her? I want someone crying and confused. Okay, I would never defend the want.

But why would you say it like that? Why wouldn't you just... Well, I think it might be because he's a psychopath. Yeah, I mean, obviously he's a psycho, but that's crazy. Send some babies to talk. Since the Dutch didn't settle in Batavia, Chinese, Japanese, and Filipino soldiers made up most of the village population,

or as Kuhn called them, well, the scum of the earth. Well, you shocked his racist? No, no, no, no. No, good lord. No, that's not what I meant. No, it's just a cumulative effect at this point. I'm just thinking what he needs is a mother's hug.

You know, something. He needed his dad to be like, you did good. The Chinese had been there for many years before the Dutch or Portuguese. They were known for making gallons of Eric, which was an alcohol made from fermented coconut, flour, sap, sugarcane, and fruit. First of all, talk about a hangover.

I mean, that's a long island, but he's going to hate that. Well, so Europeans loved it. But he's going to hate it. Well, but if it helps Europeans stay there, now he likes it. He's just, this is going to turn into a casino. Because of the popularity of Iraq,

he insisted the Chinese become part of the new community and gave some of the right to trade the liquor privately. So he, the scum of the earth, once they have like a liquor that's popular, he's like, oh, come on. It's so bad. It's almost why people say capitalists don't have morality. Yeah, it's weird.

Yeah. They got stones for eyes. Most of the settlements were dominated by men. Shocking. There is a lot of drinking, a lot of partying, a lot of smoking. To profit from the excessive drinking,

Kuhn proclaimed the benefits of spirits. And once said, our nation must drink or die. He is really a politician because he hates alcohol, but now it's like popular. He's like, come on. We all love one, right? Yeah. He just completely throws out anything.

Man of the people. During this time in Batavia, the average Dutchman would have a glass of Dutch yena beer before breakfast, yenaver, yenaver before breakfast and drink pint after pint of ale during the day. Okay. So just, you know, a day.

Yeah. After 10 years. But that's a drink you can drink at any time, right? What? Yeah. Well, it's gin. Yeah, but you drink it whenever. I remember last time.

Morning gin? Yeah, I have morning gin. I don't know. Maybe you weren't supposed to. Someone was like, yeah, you can drink gin in the morning. I was like, if I can drink gin in the morning, I will drink gin in the morning. Do you guys drink gin in the morning?

When I was in Sweden, I did see a guy having a beer at 7 a.m. at the airport. That's different. That's different. You can have gin if you have that many pastries in the morning. You could drink whatever the hell you want. This is soaking it up. All right.

After 10 years, Kuhn is finally on the verge of his Dutch monopoly. Then on July 17, 1619, he received a letter from the High Council. Okay. Hopefully they've got some nose to throw him. The Dutch and the English had signed a truce, agreeing to forgive and forget all past hostilities.

Oh my God. He must have Yosemite Sam. He's the steam coming out of him. Oh, so angry. Just like a rocket to the moon. The two companies were supposed to turn over all their captured ships and prisoners to each other and quote, henceforth live and converse as trusted friends.

Okay. By the way, great. Yeah, but this is Kuhn's absolute nightmare. Yes. To top it off, Dutch and English leaders decided the companies would work together against the Portuguese and Spanish fortunes. As he keeps going in the letter, he's like, it's just getting torn.

And expelled them from Mulakis. Okay. So captured forts and factories were to be shared. Oh my God. One third to the English and the rest to the Dutch. Okay. Good English deal. Bit of a Neville Chamberlain, right?

Some good news, gentlemen. We get the least amount. Brings it. How do you like them, oranges, man? Both companies could sell the spices with no problem. So that, he'd just gotten his monopoly. And now they're fucking it up. So Kuhn is fucking livid.

He feels betrayed. Sure. And the truth would cause the prices of spices to plummet in Europe. That's a good rap line. While the cost to buy them in Asia would go up. So Kuhn wrote to the council, quote, the English owe you a debt of gratitude because after they have worked themselves out of the Indies, your Lordships put them right back again.

It is incomprehensible that the English should be allowed one third of the clothes, nutmegs, and mace, since they cannot lay claim to a single grain of sand on the Mulakis, Amboina, or Banda Islands. P.S. Fucking assholes. Where the girls at? Where the girls at? You sent me ones, but they already have hair.

Sorry. Sorry, I got really down and real. Kuhn. To be fair, that's no longer... That's really what he wrote, but yeah, it's no longer... Hair's out. I'm just telling you the update. It ain't in anymore.

It comes and goes. No, no, it's out. No. We're all grade one-ing it now. We're all... Don't... I'm not fucking crazy. This is the reality.

I'm out there. You gotta have clippers or you die. I'm going. But the D.I. company was so... How long does it take? Huh? This is not where we're going. I just want to see Jose.

We just look a little shaved. Dad said this is what we're doing now. Here's the best. So... Because sometimes Jose has trouble cleaning himself because he's got what we call abs. When he goes to get cleaned up, like this little groomer,

they will shave his ass. And it is the gift that keeps on giving. It is tremendous. No, we took Larry to the groomer and they shaved him. It looks like a heart around his butthole. Well, that's the extra step. Larry.

By the way, that's the side podcast pet chat. So you guys just got a sampling. So, but the Dutch East India Company is like so powerful that Kuhn can kind of not go by the treaty that the two countries have made. One of the countries being his country. The Dutch East India Company is now like the most powerful thing in the world at this point.

Like it's fucking crazy powerful. So he's built a more powerful Amsterdam, essentially, except they've got crocodiles. But now... Well, without the Dutch East India Company at this point, the Netherlands... Does he have nutmeg yet? Yeah, he's got all the nutmeg.

And Europe's also oceans away, right? So it takes so long to get, like it took a year to get a letter there. So Kuhn outlined his mission to the council in a letter. Quote, sometimes on a large scale, something on a large scale must be done against the enemies. The local inhabitants must be killed or driven out of the land.

And if you're necessary, and if necessary, the country must be turned into a desert by uprooting the trees and shrubs. What? It's my plan. But... I'm going to kill everything. Yes, but...

Your honors should know by experience that trade in Asia must be driven and maintained under the protection and favor of your honors on weapons and that the weapons must be paid for by the profits from trade so that we cannot carry on trade without war nor war without trade.

Did they just write back, what? It's a symbiotic relationship. You can't just have trade without killing everything. I don't think you know what symbiotic means. And then... Sir, are you miked?

What the fuck just happened? How the fuck did that happen? I also feel like it's a question from a while ago. I think that dude fell asleep and just woke up and shouted. I think that dude fell asleep and just woke up and shouted. No!

How is he as loud as us? I don't know. Some people, yeah... I'm the guy that people are always like, what? You're sorry? No, listen. Here's the best way to apologize.

Stop talking to us. Yeah, so he's saying that you need war to have trade and trade to have war. He's literally just writing that down as if that's like, yeah, this is what it is. But he's also... I mean, he's gone fully rogue. Yeah, he's justifying what he's about to do.

I'm sorry? So now, because of this treaty, he's supposed to be working with the English. So he sends the... And he's in charge of the Dutch. So he sends the English to different places, to different things. Because the English are just like,

oh, we're friends now. Yeah, we're all good. We're all good? It's like I'm in England. And he's doing this all on his own. No one knows about it. So in February of 1621, he arrived at Fort Nassau

on the Great Banda Island with his entire fleet, 2,000 troops, and Japanese mercenaries. This was where young Kuhn saw his former captain get killed and remember at the very beginning? The B-headings? Yep.

So Kuhn... Remember when that was just like a funny moment? Like, ha ha ha ha. Finally, got one over on the whites. And here we are. So Kuhn still wanted to avenge his captain from all those years ago. What do you mean?

Things are... Why do that? He's Kuhn. It's his origin story. Wait, don't say like... He's not Rambo. No. So the scholars believe Kuhn's experience

of having his captain's head cut off increased his distrust for men and hatred for incompetence and instigated a decades-long plan to exact revenge. Oh, my God. So experts have looked in his life, think that he literally...

was calculated leading up to this. Yeah, it was like plotting and waiting for this moment. An English merchant delivered Kuhn a letter on behalf of local village elders. Oh, boy. The letter begged him to avoid violence. Kuhn...

It's gonna fall on deaf eyes. Kuhn swore at the messenger and pushed him out of his office. I mean, you don't push the messenger out of your office. That's where you get the phrase from. Don't push the messenger out of the office? Shoot him, whatever it is.

The point is... Come on, now, don't push the messenger out of your office. You heard the phrase. Don't push the messenger. I'll shoot him. Well, that's gonna be the new one. Do not do that.

That's the new line. So... The island is dense forest. Villagers lived in and around inaccessible mountains. So Kuhn bribed some locals and visiting European merchants to betray their comrades

and undermine local defenses. Cool. Kuhn's troops seized control of the island settlements and doing this, Kuhn lost only six men while the native population suffered immense casualties. A group of native leaders

asked to meet with Kuhn. They're like, can we talk? This is not great. No. By the way, wasn't that how the guys get beheaded? Wasn't that supposed to be a talk? Yeah.

They brought offerings as a sign of their sincerity. That's just... Kuhn then demanded they surrender all their weapons, destroy their forts, seed somber tea over the islands, donate a tenth of all nutmeg

produced each year. What is it used for? Is it a cure-all? What does it do? What is the thing that nutmeg does that I'm completely missing? It's just for... Eggnog.

Yeah. Do you guys use nutmeg? It is a preservative. So I was right. I was right? Yeah. Yeah, it's a preservative. So at this time...

I mean, we talked about it in the pie. Remember the pie episode? I'll never forget the pie episode. So at this time, that's really important because... Preservation of food. But nutmeg keeps your food... Okay, sure.

So... You sprinkle it all on your ham it lasts for six months. And then you can sell a pastry in the morning. So he also asked them to sell the remaining 90% to the DEI company at fixed low prices. Of the nutmeg? Right.

So donate a tenth of the nutmeg. So donate 10%. And then sell the remaining to them. Well, Dave... And then give him all their sons. Now, let me see. 90 plus... I'm sorry.

The last part? What was the last part? Give him all their sons. This dude. Every son. So they came with gifts. And he said he wouldn't enslave them. He just wants them.

Good Lord. I don't know where to start. Look. Give me the kids. So they come with a peaceful offering. And he's like, give me all the land. Give me all your nutmeg. Sell me all your nutmeg.

And I want your boys. I want your boys. And by the way, I've got good intentions. That's weird. He didn't ask for the girls, right? Yes. After what we've led up to. Yes.

So the band agreed. So who's the guy who comes back from them? He's like, guys, it went pretty, pretty well. Pretty well. Oh, Tommy, Jimmy, Sam, Frankie, Bob. You guys can sit this out. Why, Dad? Not now.

You're on the bench for a minute. We're going to put a pin in you real quick. But I want to let you know the good news. We're only giving away 10% of the nutmeg. 10%. And selling 90%. So we're out. And we have to leave.

And now that brings me back to you boys. You're not ours anymore. You know that guy who's crazy with the weird eyes, the nice beard? You work for him now. Work for him. He promised everything was going to be on the up and up. He actually said you guys can call him Dad.

Yeah, call him Dad. All right. Or pop, pop. And gentlemen, I think that's how we close. Now bring on the English. Because I'm on fire right now. All right. So the band agree.

And then they go back and then disappear into the mountains. And in a way, a wise move. Smartest move. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's essentially, if you analogize the American experience right now, that's the situation we're in.

And we're the band. And we just need to get the fuck out. Just be like, all right. I'm talking about you and me specifically. Oh yeah. Yeah. Let's start. I don't want the rest of them to come with us.

Well, whatever it is, as long as we're like, all right, we can't win here. You guys, America is going to be so much better when all the people like me and Gareth leave and then all the crazy people are left. It will become a reality show. It'll be like this Thursday on America. And we'll just be like watching like, oh, wow, that's crazy. I used to live there. So, right.

So they don't deliver the hostages. They don't deliver their kids and the weapons. They just go into the mountains. So Coon wrote, quote, they are an indolent people of which little good can be expected. Whatever. Well, they wouldn't give them, they probably said yes to giving them the kids and then they didn't. How do you trust someone like that?

Yeah. No, it's true. Really unfair too. So then Coon just waited. He what? He waited. Waited for what? Well, sure enough.

Armed Bandonese ambushed Dutch East India Company patrols, which he knew was going to happen. He was waiting for it. He immediately crushed them and gained control of the island. So he waited for them to make the move. He just had to keep going. He captured 45 native leaders. He was so brutal to them that many of his own men refused to comply with his orders

because they were repulsed by the extreme violence. That's crazy. For that time, for someone to be so vile. Yeah. If you can make a European, if you can make a white guy in an island full of brown people feel nauseous, you're out of your fucking mind. Yeah. In a time where everyone's out of their mind, they're going, you're fucking nuts.

Like Meg. The majority of the population were beaten to death, beheaded, burned, or impaled. What a week. Some of the men were killed for refusing Kuhn's orders. So Dutch guys in the Dutch soldiers are like, I don't want to do that. And he's killing them. He's killing them too. Majorly redeeming?

An officer said, quote, things are carried on in such a criminal and murderous way that the blood of the poor people's cries to heaven for revenge. Lieutenant Nicholas Van Wart, which is a sad name, quote, six Japanese soldiers were ordered inside. So they're mercenaries, right? And with their sharp swords, they beheaded and quartered the eight chief orange kaya and then beheaded and quartered 36 others. Well, you're quartering a guy.

What's going on in your head? It's about to go off. The music? The song? No. If you're quartering something? Yeah. If you're cutting something in a quarter, are you just like, what?

I don't know what I'm going to do later. Like, what are you fucking thinking? I can't get in the head of a quarterer. He's right. That's the guy making crocodile sounds. Who is this guy? Who is he? That's a crocodile.

The execution was awful to see. Oh, really, Dave? The orange kaya died silently without uttering any sound except that one of them, speaking in the Dutch tongue, said, sirs, have you no mercy? But indeed, nothing availed. All that happened was so dreadful as to leave us stunned. The heads and quarters of those who had been executed were impaled upon bamboos and displayed. Why that part?

You did the work. So you've got to enjoy the fruits of your labor. Dave, it's not top chef. Or the quarters. No. Or like the shoulder of your labor. Oh, my God. Thus it did happen.

God knows who is right. What? All of us as... Sorry. I don't know why I picked up on it, but what's that in there for? God knows who... I think he's saying that the Dutch are not right in this case. Okay. God knows who is right.

All of us as professing Christians were filled with dismay at the way this affair was brought to a conclusion, and we took no pleasure. Filled with dismay and took no pleasure. Well, I'm not taking any as much as I thought I might. Well, I tell you, it was no picnic for us either. There's two sets of victims here. The victims and then the ones who did the quartering. I'll never shake the memory.

I'm not going to be able to look at nutmeg for a week. Kuhn wasn't done. Good to hear. Right. Over the next month, his troops burned dwellings and rounded entire villages onto ships and transported the people to be sold as slaves. Oh, my God. Most children included died of disease and starvation during the voyage.

The population went from about 15,000 to less than 1,000. Kuhn now had the nickname the Butcher of Banda. Cool. Congratulations to your hero, your native. He killed 14,000, or he killed or enslaved 14,000 people. Yeah. I mean, he just took, this is what? Yes, it's a master.

Popularly known as genocide. In the popular word, people. Kuhn seized all English on the Banda Islands also. The English guys that were around. He tortured them, shackled them, and put them in ship holds as prisoners. When the Netherlands Council heard about this, they were slightly angry. They thought there was a treaty. Right.

But what he had done was really created a monopoly. This is like a fucking real monopoly situation. Right. This is a $3,000 bonus. I was expecting it to go the other way. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, yeah, no. I think that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But instead they're like, how could you have nailed this so hard? He had secured the world supply of nutmeg and mace. That preserves things I still, this is stupid. The Dutch East India Company finally had the monopoly Kuhn dreamed of. The conqueror territories became a money making machine. Nope. Kuhn ordered the destruction of three force of nutmeg trees.

He, wait, what? What? Why? Artificially raised prices. That's Christ. Think man, this is about money. Jesus. You're done.

You fucking kill a whole people and then you're like, how can I keep making money? So nutmeg is oil. Yeah. Okay. He divided the land into dozens of three acre parcels called Perken and a lot of them to Dutch planters. Since there were no Bandonese to work the fields now, they had to bring in slaves from other territories.

God, it's just, it's just so. It's nice to see this happen to you. This is nice to see. This is refreshing. There's just that point where you're like, wow, oh fuck. We needed some of those guys. Remember all those people we killed? Oh Jesus.

That's where your head's at. Right. Because then they have to go to another island to fucking. I know. Yeah. Really is going to be a chore for them. Poor guys. Yeah.

Really sucks now for them. I just, I just, because then you know how much money we're going to lose going over there to the island and slaving another people to bring them here. Jesus. God damn it. We just did not think that one out. Of the enslavement, Coon said, quote, may not a man in Europe do what he likes with his cattle.

What a relatable quote. Yeah. What is he? Huh? No, not time for beer. What? He's talking about the slaves. Yeah.

He says may not a man in Europe do what he likes with his cattle. Great. I'm really clear on it now. He's saying you can do what he wants with the slaves just like he does with a cow. Okay. Good. Thank you for clarifying it. Dutch plantation owners enjoyed the luxurious slave owning colonial life as growers and many

other European imperial lands did. And historians living here, living there at the time was most comparable to that of the lives of George Washington or Thomas Jefferson in Virginia, USA. Who are American icons and heroes. Right? Yep. Who did not do anything bad. Nope.

Nope. Not in our history books. You got to look pretty deep to find out that stuff, Dave. That's right. For the next two centuries, I always like to look at George Washington as the guy whose mouth was a hall of horrors and was killed because his friends drained him of blood. So you're really shattering the image of a hero for me, Dave. For the next two centuries, people of the world either bought nutmeg from the Dutch

East India Company or didn't have it. So they created a monopoly that lasted for two centuries. The company would destroy hundreds of nutmeg trees to inflate prices all the time. Dutch planters are some of the wealthiest in the world. Dutch colonial rule covered all aspects of life. Laws regulated. Clones. Clones worn by...

Clones. There'll be no cloning. One of each of you. That's it. That's the cap. Except for Kuhn. We're going to have five of him. He's great.

It's going to be like multiplicity. Multiplicity? That's right. The Michael Keaton films. From... From which year? That'll be probably about 1996. I think you're way...

Andy McDowell, director by Harold Ramis. That's like 87. It's like a copy of a copy. No, it's not 87. Come on. So, they regulated clothes depending on his or her level of employment down to the type of shoe buckle. Only baptized Christians could wear shoes and the wives of Dutch merchants paraded around

town with parasols attended by a circle of their slaves to publicly indicate their status. In 19... Sorry. In 1623, well... Well, same difference. In 1623, Kuhn returned to the Netherlands and was appointed head of the Dutch East India Company chamber in his hometown of Horn. In Amsterdam, he bought a large mansion and settled into a comfortable life of a wealthy

gentleman. Now, here's what I'm worried about, Dave. I'm worried that nothing bad happens to this man. He married... and commissioned portraits of them in elegant and ornate robes made to look like they were royalty. Just before Kuhn had left the East Dutch East Indies, he took the new governor named Herman Van Speelt and Kuhn explicitly warned him to be very wary and suspicious of the English and to expect that they would retaliate for the massacre.

So Van Speelt then became very, very paranoid. And when Van Speelt's spies told him that a Japanese mercenary who was employed by the English had been seen loitering outside of the company fortress. So Van Speelt had the Japanese mercenary along with all the other Japanese mercenaries brought in. And then he tortured them for a long time until they confessed that they were going to seize the castle. Now, real confession?

No. Of course not. Forrest torture confession. That's the kind you do with a witch. Right. That's very much so. Witches we've been learning a lot about. They said the mastermind was named Gabriel Towerson, who was an Englishman.

And now Van Speelt and Towerson were really good friends. So he invited Towerson and his men to the fort for a dinner. If you get invited to the fort, you have plans. Yeah, don't go to the fort. Do not go to the fort. Once inside, they were all seized, Towerson and his men were tortured until each confessed to a siege. All the men were eventually killed in terrible ways, burned, stabbed, stretched on a rack,

drowned, chained to a stone wall, had limbs blown off with gunpowder, et cetera. Don't et cetera me. At some point, you have to et cetera. I mean, really, you have to et cetera. Blowing limbs off with gunpowder? That's just like when you let an eight-year-old come up here. What do you want to see? All right, we'll do it.

We'll stuff him. So Towerson himself was beheaded, cut into quarters, and put on polls for the public. The English East India Company would never regain their hold in the area Koon had won. I was getting that sense. Yeah. Where did the massacre reach Europe? Even the Dutch were shocked. Even Koon was like, Jesus, this guy's out of his mind.

What's he doing over there? Government and company leaders were concerned with the excessive use of force. People noted Koon, typically, if not always, engaged in that type of behavior. Leaders didn't want the nation to get a horrible reputation. By the way, you could have pumped the brakes a little while ago. We wait for now. One Dutch... We just don't want this to get out of hand.

That's what we're worried about. One Dutch East India Company director said, quote, there is no profit at all in an empty seal, empty countries, and dead people. He was wrong. Insane profits were rolling into the Netherlands. Koon became a national hero for establishing the foundation for the Dutch trading empire and instigating the Netherlands' gilded age. The spice trade was the main source of national wealth.

Challenges to Koon's methods quieted down, and people began to use the same excuse as before to justify violence, oversee activities, were technically not governed by the laws of the United Netherlands. Koon was appointed to a second term as governor general in 1624. Good. This guy, good run. He sailed the Batavia with his wife, newborn child, and his wife's brother and sister. Something has to happen to him.

One of Koon's colleagues, Jacques Spex, left his 12-year-old daughter, Sarchi, in Koon's care temporarily. One day, Koon discovered Sarchi was in the arms of a 15-year-old soldier. So Koon beheaded the soldier. Oh, my God. How do you handle it? How do I handle it? Like how do you teach him it's wrong?

Why is it wrong? She's a kid. She's 12. He's 15. She's 12. He's 15. Well, this is like the 1600s. I know.

He wrote a letter asking for young girls. I know, but you've got it. There's like a line. I think you pull the kid, fucking turn your fucking back on me. I think there's a line and you say, hey, look, you know, maybe there's too much of an age gap waiting until you guys get a little bit older, but you know, that's young love and I get it. I mean, you've got some emotions, new things are happening in your body, your body's changing

and you're starting to find romantic feelings in the opposite gender and I understand that. But in reality, what you need to do right now is just take a minute and kind of figure out who you are, what you are, what you want, and then maybe in five years you guys can revisit this. By the way, I'm going to cut your head off. He wanted to drown Sarchi in a bathtub, but officials talked him out of it. Look, have you ever had to take care of someone else's kids, there's a lot of pressure. You're right, Dave.

I'm not a parent. I don't know. Yeah. Thank you. So instead he publicly whipped her. So the officials were like, yeah, better, yeah, yeah. This case is often held up to show how awful Kuhn was, but the punishments they received were in line with Dutch East India Company regulations.

Regulations. The remaining natives did not want to give up their ancient traditions and freedoms. Sultan Agun, who, the leader of the Matterham Empire, was the only real threat to the Dutch East India headquarters in Batavia. The Sultan rallied native forces for a final battle against the Dutch. Sultan Agun launched a siege, but after just one month his army disbanded, were captured and killed. In 1867, the Sultan returned with an even larger force, his empire's entire force, tens

of thousands of soldiers, but Kuhn had cut off all of his army's ration ships. So by the time the army reached Batavia shores, the soldiers were all starving and easy to kill. Kuhn won with ease. The battles brought a plague of dysentery and cholera to Batavia. Cool. Kuhn succumbed. Throw a little nutmeg on yourself, right?

It takes her to that. Kuhn succumbed to what was probably dysentery and died on September 20, 1629, at just 42 years old. I'll take it. I'll take it. I'll take it. It's not my dream death for him, but dysentery is probably very painful, but I still think there's a lot of fun stuff we could have done.

To this day, there is a mystery surrounding where his grave is. The Dutch East India Company continued to build the vast Dutch empire. Kuhn had developed a highly organized modern business model using shareholders and liability systems. It is a model that is still used today. This is called the Dutch East India Company of the World's first multinational corporation. This is the birth of capitalism? Modern capitalism.

The company became the most powerful military force and largest richest trade company of the world had ever seen. It also became a breeding ground for smuggling, bribery, piracy, and other illegal activities. Eventually officials only made decisions that directly benefited themselves. The corruption was so rampant that from the 1790s onward, the phrase perished under corruption was commonly used to describe the company's demise. It went bankrupt in 1799. It had 12 million guilders in debt.

Guilders is that your dollar version? What's your? Oh, you use zero now, right? But before that, it was the gilder. There is still a statue of Kuhn in horn. But now there is- We've got to cut that thing's head off. Well, someone did accidentally knock it down with a crane, but they put it back up. That's not the same.

That's not what I'm asking. And I was trying to find stuff, but there's not much in English, but I did find a guy who named his kid, Jan, and was rallying to get the Dutch government to bring the hero's body back. So that guy's out there. Oh, that guy. So there was a lot of argument over whether or not to keep the statue, and the resolution was to have a description of what he did to the Bandonese on the statue.

And then there's a QR code that takes you to a further description of the atrocities. Way to deal with it. There's a QR code. Who goes through a statue and is like, oh, I want to do a follow-up on this plaque. So he's got a statue? He's got a statue, yeah. Yeah. Not that we can complain about where we're from.

No. There's absolutely no difference between what we've done and what... You know the difference? We erected a lot of our Confederate soldier statues in the last century. Some in the last 50 years, yeah. Jesus Christ. You guys are not great. That's by far the darkest story we've had so far.

I always knew, if we ever came here, that I'd have to do the Dutch East Indian Company, which is, you know, it's not great. It's fucking dark. Look, white people turns out not that great. I know, but I just, like, how many times? A lot. A lot. A lot.

I mean, like, we could... I could go through all of the islands in the Pacific, and America has done this to every fucking one. Well, it doesn't surprise me with us. It's like we're taping two and a half men, and he's like, oh, I'm the son. Shut up. I don't care if you swallow to fucking lavalier, shut your mouth. No, shut up.

Jesus. We're at the end. Talked eight times. We want to thank everyone but one person for coming out tonight. We really appreciate it. Truly, guys. And then, if you have, like, the meet and greet thing or whatever, just stick around and, you know, we'll be back out.

We'll come back. We had such a great fucking time. So thank you very much, guys. We appreciate it. Thank you. The main sources for this episode, the book, The Merchant Kings, when companies ruled the world, 1600 to 1900 by Stephen Brown, and the unfortunate Dutchman, Selangor, Malaysia, by Dennis Dewitt, and between monopoly in free trade, the English East India company,

Meryksson, Emily. Okay.