The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 425 - Hofman and the Salamander (Live)

Episode Date: April 15, 2020

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine mormon Mark Hofman. Recorded live in Salt Lake City. SourcesTour datesRedbubble Merch

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This is a bisexual American history contest. For each week I parry a drinker. You devil. Literally someone last night mentioned how they missed this and James is like it's coming back. You're pulling a Jesus with it. David Anthony reads a story from American history to his friend. Gareth Reynolds who has no idea what the topic will be about. That's the real thing. Keep them on ring guys. That's a weird one though. That was just a text message. What did I say? Someone liked an Instagram. Wow this guy's really testy.

I'm done with the phones. This has got to stop. December 7th, 1954. May my lord Jesus Christ. Mark Hoffman was born... Those of you who don't know. My watch just told me to move. Mark Hoffman was born in Salt Lake City, Utah to William Hoffman and Lucille Sears. I don't get why they had different last names.

You never heard of that? It's allowed. I would think in the Mormon religion in the 50s I would be like weird. I believe that was a time when they really really preached independence for females. I know very little. Mark was a sixth generation Mormon. You ain't leaving. His father had been brought to Utah from Switzerland as an infant and his mother was born into Mormon polygamy after its abolishment.

That doesn't happen anymore. Mark's father sold office machines in Salt Lake City. He didn't make a lot of money but he was happy knowing he was raising a family devoted to Mormonism. Mark underwent intensive indoctrination from nursery school onward. Children were instructed about the divine origin and absolute truth of the Book of Mormon and taught that their church was God's only true church and that they were members of a chosen people. Mark thrilled his parents when he was six by reciting long passages from Mormon scripture word for word. It sounds fun. As far as just like a childhood that just sounds really fun.

It's like sure you want blocks and trains and shit but also isn't it fun to just memorize words you don't understand? Oh my god. And it's just it's not creepy at all to see these six year old doing that. It's not even remotely creepy. Feel that little head. He would also sing I want to go on a mission non-stop. I wish I knew with the tune. I'm not sure they could break it out right now.

I'm picturing danger zone. I want to go on a mission. I don't think it's anything like that. Baby I want to go on a mission. I always wonder like how many Mormons discovered like anal when they're on their mission. I mean it is you know there's a glory hole. By the Lord's light I shall find out what is on the other side. At 12 like all Mormon children he was ordained as a deacon in the Aaronic brotherhood.

Aaronic. Oh sorry. By 14 he was a teacher. By 14 he was a teacher. Hold on. A deacon? I imagine a 12 year old is talking to me about where I'm going to be like buddy come on. Fuck out of here. Go paint something.

Get out of here you little scamp. What the hell are you talking about? I'm going to tell you where you're going. Oh you're going to tell me where I'm going? Get out of here. You don't know anything. By 14 he was a teacher. Good.

By 14 he was a priest. Jesus Christ. He's like the doogie howzer of Mormonism. Is this normal or is this like a guy who's... It's normal. That's wild to those of us who it's not normal to. At 19. At 19 he shook Jesus' hand. 21 he lived in God's pocket.

You could do a Frank Sinatra like when I was 21. At 19 ordained as... This is a fucked up word. As elders in the Melchizedek? Melchizedek? Priesthood? Is that a lateral move? I think it's an upgrade.

It's an upgrade? Yeah, I think that's a big one. I guess I'm just going to picture it like Starfleet with different colored shirts. That's right. Deacon? Yes, what is it? Pre-truth and Melchonic people? It doesn't sound randomly made up at all.

No, no, no. The thing is when you say you found plates and people start pressing you, there's a lot of on-the-fly thinking you've got them. No, there's another one. Holy shit. I wish they put some napkins with some of those plates. Sweat my pulse off.

The Lord have sweateth my scrotum. I can self-animate. He didn't have many close friends and was both... I don't know why that was. What about his lifestyle? It's not one where peers want to be around you. He was bookish and introverted. He was forced to be bookish and introverted.

No, it's just his style. No, it's the forced style. It's what he was into. No, it's not. I will keep pushing back. He was a bad student, but was into magic, chemistry, electronics, stamp, and coin collecting. There we go. One person tickled by him.

His parents were convinced that he was destined to become a general authority, one of the 85 men who ran the Mormon Church. 85. Just a number that naturally fell into place. Mark went to Bristol, England for his mission. What are you on about? Well, gentlemen, I understand you've had a few of those pints, but I'd like to talk to you about the church.

The Lord is looking for me. Oh, boy, you guys are really weird looking over here. Fuck out of here. Fuck off. We've got our gun, I think. No, we haven't got a gun. No, we're not punching. Yeah, we punch people.

Yeah, that's what it was. It was a church of punch. Yeah, then we'll cut fruit. Have we been doing that? Oh, my God. We can hear a bit more, then. We've sex with the bodies through the chest. And one of us is not matched to pay more.

You can't hear this. How pissed are we getting? Quite pissed. Where's that little kid gone? He's run off, suddenly. Pick his brain a bit. Well, he was in Bristol, he would write to his parents,

brag about all the baptisms he had performed, and that he was going into libraries and bookstores and replacing anti-Mormon books with Mormon books. That'll do it. Yeah, I'm a fucking bad boy. That is kind of bad boy, right? All those anti-Mormon books in England.

That is rebellious, though. Mark also spent a lot of time in old bookstores looking for rare texts, hoping that he could find one that would make him rich. He did not tell his parents he spent most of his time reading Fawn Brody's No Man Knows My History.

After it was published, Brody was excommunicated from the LDS church. So I'm guessing this is not a positive perspective. Nope. So Mark returned to Salt Lake in 1976. Can you tell his escalators? Everyone's holding signs.

That's the only time I've wanted to go on a mission. Every time we come here, you're like, ah, look, it's so exciting for a person. We were going through the airport, and I'm like, how the fucking Amish people fly? It was a great walk. And I was like, how are there so many fucking Amish people?

And then I was like, no, there's no way they could. There's no way, yeah. And then I was like, oh, I've seen Big Love. Yeah, they're the bootknockers. Yeah. Kidfucker, bootknocker, whatever.

He returned to Salt Lake. He returned to Salt Lake city in 1976 and went to Utah State University. Well, he was there. He was there with Judy Smith. He had been called in to audit her faithfulness. That's the right way to meet your lady.

What a better meet, Q, than when you're testing the religious devotion. She was the first woman he ever dated or kissed. Well, there we go. This one ends in marriage. Yeah. The first thing I touch your wainer,

you're like, well, we should just have a hand. Oh, you did do it. He hath risen. Quote, Mark was shy and ill at ease with people, an introverted pre-med student who wore the same dark suit and tied to

classes that he wore as a missionary. He spent hours on in the library, reading history books and old historical documents. Fun. Yeah, for sure. Anyone who's shown up in the same smelly suit just going to the library reading the same shit. It's attractive.

Seven months later, they were engaged. Now, Mark's parents were not down with it because Judy wanted to be a journalist. They believed Mormon women should only marry and have kids. Well, yeah, that's different. It's very different.

Judy and Mark fought over their religion. Judy gave Mark back the engagement ring days before they were to be married. But they still dated for two years after that. That's a weird downgrade. I bet there's a lot of people who wish

they could pull that downgrade on. We're like, I've enjoyed the test drive. I don't know if I'm ready to purchase again. Can I take a couple more spins around the block? Can I get a fucking thing back? They finally broke up in August 1979. Judy, quote, we broke up because of differing views

of the LDS religion. Mark professed to be an atheist. Wait. Wait. Mark is the... Okay. Mark. He felt the LDS religion was a fairy tale

and he wanted all Mormons to know that they had been misled, that they were involved in a false church and that there was no God. That'll be easy. And his parents were like, that's enough. Meanwhile, he's the one who's just like,

come on, let's leave. We got to go to Bristol. I met some cool guys. Awesome. I want to stab a guy and fuck his chest. Yeah, you got to try it. So, six weeks later, Mark met and married

Dorely Olds. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, it didn't take long. That's such a Mormon rebound. Yeah. And Vivant. Vivant. But at this point, he was really good at holding hands.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. No. Well, this is the point too, where you're not just holding hands, like you're maybe intertwining fingers and maybe give a little thumb rub or something like that. Really? Like maybe going to third base on the hand? Little thumb rub action. Yeah. Finger to palm.

You coming? Which is actually what the crucifixion was. Yeah. Too soon? I don't think so. Just starting to feel like an away game. In April, 1980, Dorely came home one day,

and Mark was looking at an old Cambridge Bible. What? And inside, he found a piece of paper stuck in the pages. It was brittle. Stuck in the pages? Yeah. Some people love the figure. Yeah, someone's jerking off to the Cambridge Bible.

That's right. He said it. More like Cambridge. It was brittle old and folded in half. He opened it up, and inside was the signature of Joseph Smith Jr. founder of Mormonism. What?

Wait a minute. Is he Joseph Smithing Joseph Smith? Talk about putting the system on trial. The guy who found the golden plates? Well, I found a letter from that guy. Round two, the squeak wool. Mark took it

to the curator of Utah State University's special collection of rare documents and books. And the curator compared the signature to other Joseph Smith Jr. signatures and said they were very similar. Okay. The letter had Egyptian hieroglyphics on the outside.

What is happening? I don't want to know what the fuck happened to the religion that there would be Egyptian hieroglyphics. I don't want to know. Don't ever tell me. And on the outside was a note from Joseph Smith Jr. explaining the symbols.

The curator believed Mark may have just found the anthone transcript. Mic drop. It was the fabled first segment of the translated golden plates, which Joseph Smith Jr. would later turn

into the Book of Mormon. He had played. Based on something, I believe. Up until this point, Mormons only had a description of what the symbols looked like written by Charles Anthony. Uh-huh. Okay.

So this is a big find. It's a crazy find. I'll give you that. Now, in Missouri, the reorganized church, which is a separate... Gee, I mean, you're so close to the same thing. You can't just...

Meet in the middle? They were a church that split off. They were started by Joseph Smith Jr. claiming he owned the anthone transcript. But it had symbols that didn't match the known description while Mark's fit the description to a T. So Mark's is better

than what they got at the reorganized church in Missouri. Sure. It all sounds very likely. The creator said he felt, quote, the same sort of satisfaction that Howard Carter had when he appeared in the

King Tut's Tomb and said, I see things. Wonderful things. Like Haley Joel Osmond? Yeah. Okay. But it had to be authenticated. It was taken to the church historical department's best-known expert on handwriting and old documents,

Dean Jesse, who looked at it. It sounds pretty cool. Jesse said that it appeared real, and he told Mark to keep it a secret until it was authenticated. Don't tell anybody. Okay. It's that big of a fucking deal. Mark immediately told his mother and father.

Of course. Got a gossip? This is huge. No, it's a big deal. You can't keep that quiet. I found a thing that's not real. Soon... Soon Jesse declared the documents as legitimate and told a reporter, quote, it is impossible to conclude

that anyone other than Joseph Smith wrote this. That's not a hundred percent, though. It is. 100. Say it's been fucking authenticated. Read what you said again, because there's some wiggle room. It's definitely being safe. It is impossible to conclude that anyone other than Joseph Smith wrote this.

Yeah, it's not airtight. Mark immediately became an overnight Mormon celebrity. Oh, boy. That's how you become a Mormon celebrity. Seriously. Mark and his father went to Chicago to track the line of ownership

of the Anthon transcript, and they traced it to one of Joseph Smith Jr.'s sister's granddaughters who confirmed her mother probably sold it by accident. Well, you know, you're selling old stuff, you have a garage sale, you put everything on the to-go pile,

and then, whoopsie, you sold the translator of the religion. It happens. You've heard it a thousand times. With this, Mark had officially found the legitimate Anthon transcript. The legitimate? Yeah, they're like, that's it, that's the real deal. He traced it back, and then the main guy's

like, yeah, it's real. Now what? He was given $5 Mormon gold coins minted in 1850, a first edition Book of Mormon, and other early Mormon money, all worth about $20,000. Okay. I guess Mormons don't actually give you

money, they give you other shit back. Oh, cool. A bunch of old shit for my old shit. Thank you, guys. This has been worth it. It's like a fucking swap meet. Yeah. Mark then dropped out of school to be an old book dealer

full-time, old document dealer. Oh, either way. It didn't take long. On February 16, 1991, Mark found a photocopy of a faded 1844 letter with Joseph Smith Jr. signature. He gave it to the chief Mormon archivist in Salt Lake City

who purchased rare documents on behalf of the Mormon church. The letter was a blessing from Joseph Smith Jr. What do you believe? You sound very convinced. I think it's fucking amazing. And it designated his son, Joseph Smith

III, as his true successor. But is that the one who's in Missouri? That's the bad boy. That's the RLDS. Right. What are the reclamations out there? Reorganized.

What a great name. Congratulations on that. What if we're the reorganized one? Yeah. They were basically no polygamy and then these guys. They all come down to polygamy, right? That line in the sand is like,

can you have a lot of wives? Right? I want to fuck a lot. No, no, no, you just fuck the one. No! I'm leaving! I've got to do another place. The Lord will be so pissed off at you.

I'll be getting a lot of fucking blessings. That's not the idea. You just get one pussy, you asshole. I can't believe it. I can't work with you. Everything else we agree on. This is crazy. This is absolutely crazy.

Because you can only get one. Oh, here we go. The truth comes out, doesn't it? Finally, you've revealed yourself. I'll have you know I'd have wives lining up to be married to me. Oh, you think that's funny? Well, good luck.

My guess is you tap out about two to three wives. Tops! Tops! You'll come crawling back when you can only get one or two wives. You will, you'll come crawling back. And I'll have the one wife that I've got very consistent with. Fucking double digits.

I'm going DD. Oh, okay. You're going to be a ten wiper? I'm going to set up a fucking camp out in the desert. Police! You should join the church of police, not polygamy, because this is a real police moment. My lord, my lord above,

he is great. He's great. He wants us to fuck all the women we can. He's told me on it! He gave me a plate! It said, fuck a bunch of them! Yeah, I saw that plate. That was your handwriting. That was barely a plate.

It was a dinner plate with foil on it. You didn't even do your homework. If you're going to do something like that, be convincing. Fuck, I'm mailing it in. It was an Elvis plate. It barely said it. We found the extra foil pieces

in your pocket. You're just trying to beg a lot of wives. I guess what, it worked. So many of them fell for that shit. Oh my god. I'm out of cum. Anyway, I'm going to Utah. You go to Missouri.

You stay in Missouri. I go to Utah. Oh, right. You're going to stay here. Right, because we were here before. That's what I was saying. It's where it all began. It's where it all began, asshole. So, in the 1840s, let's break this up for you.

The Mormon Church split into two groups, the LDS with Brigham Young and the RLDS who opposed Bligamy. The RLDS believed Brigham Young would destroy all the evidence that Joseph Smith Jr. ordained his son as the man. This made Mark's new document

the only proof in existence. It was called The Blessing. Sure. The chief Mormon archivist bought at the price. He was like, I'm not fucking paying that much money. But then he discussed it with an elder.

It was decided that the church should obtain the document. President Tanner's words were, we need it! Or something to that effect. Wait, how much do they want it for the document? I don't know how much they want it. So the chief Mormon archivist went back to Mark and told him the church

I made a mistake, we want it. We want this awesome blessing. Mark said he had already met with the RLDS historian. So he's got offers out to other religions. And the Jews. The Jews are very interested. Really?

And the Scientologists. They want everything. They're giving us Tom Cruise. And then they insist we take True Volta. Yeah. We can just throw him in a pile. A pile of it! So the RLDS

offer was to trade it for their Book of Commandments, which was with 4DK. RLDS elders discussed and decided it was vital they make a counter offer. So the chief Mormon archivist and another hire met with Mark. Feels like free agency.

Yeah, it's fucking crazy. They met with Mark one hour before his meeting with the RLDS. They told Mark that he owed it to his church to save it from the embarrassment it would cause. So they're really putting him in the vice. Going to his Mormonism, which he doesn't believe in at all.

So he's like, yeah, that's very true. Mark says, okay, I won't sell it to RLDS. Okay. Did he announce it on ESPN? In front of a bunch of children? And then he went straight to the RLDS historian and told him how much LDS church wanted for the blessing.

So he's working on the game. But then he agreed. The RLDS guy said, look, I need time to authenticate it. And then he gave him a photocopy of it and Mark immediately told LDS to have it.

And cheers. And for that, he got a first edition book of Mormon. Maybe start off with the good stuff. An 1860 Mormon gold coin. A pattern used in the minting of the coin and four pieces of rare

Mormon currency. Altogether, we're at 20,000. But not really worth anything because it's all fake shit you're giving each other. It's literally like a Dungeons & Dragons shit. The value is not real

because none of it is real. It's just like our money, dude. Some paper. We all stopped using it, man. Think about it. We're about at tree houses, man. God, religions are such a scam.

Pretty amazing. Just go look at the bag and Vatican and be like, holy fuck. I've just been screwing people for years. Well, let's use some other terms. The RLDS historian found about it to sale from a reporter. And he called the LDS and asked for a

certified copy to make it public. Now, the LDS at this point knows that other people know so they can't keep it a secret. So they offered it to the RLDS historian as a gift. And the next day, The New York Times printed a story about the blessing. The New York Times already has a story.

Headline, Mormon document raises doubts on succession of church's leaders. It's full of quotes from unidentified sources. Right. The LDS then held a conference in Utah to bring the blessing to the public.

So great. Huge. They were Mormons from over 70 countries. They really fanned out. It's a little mission thing. I definitely picture the Bristol guys in the back. It explained that Joseph Smith wanted

a session to pass through the Council of Twelve Apostles, not bloodlines. We all agree with that. What was not said was that Mark had just come back to the LDS with a short letter addressed to Brigham Young that would blow

the church wide open. So they're giving this big thing about he's got another thing that's got a new fucking bomb. Wow. Okay. It's a lot of bombs. In this letter, the writer condemned Brigham Young for taking Joseph Smith's third title

quote, I will not surrender that blessing knowing what it's certain fate will be if I return. P.S., I would write more, but my hand smarts. Can we talk privately? What? Who's unable to take a break?

This is not like a tweet. You know what I mean? My fucking hand is just killing me. Did you stop writing the letter? It's over. What a crazy ending to a letter. Can we talk privately? My hand hurts.

My hand is smarting. What did you want to talk about? Did you have a hand guy? It kills. So the LDS bought this new letter from Mark. He promised not to tell anyone. Sure. Yeah.

Maybe an anonymous source might pop up again. The letter was put in the first presidency's vault. Which... That's where Nicholas Cage is going for the next installment. The treasure, obviously. And it's right there.

It's in the vault. So Mark all of a sudden started finding documents everywhere. Well, well, well. It's just getting really good. There's nothing weird about that at all. It's just a season. Some guys have a knack.

Some know for sure. It's him and Nicholas Cage. It's down to those two. That's great. So... I can't believe there would be any bullshit involved. I know. He found a letter from one

of Joseph Smith's first converts. And then collector Brent Ashworth traded $27,000 worth of documents signed by George Washington and Abraham Lincoln and Robbie Lee for the letter. Mark made it another amazing find. Ashworth was beside himself. I found God.

He's right here. He looks like that guy who plays music down the street for money. But he's right here. This one was signed by Lucy Max Smith, Joseph Smith's junior's mother and, quote, described graphically coming forth of the not-yet-published book of Mormon.

So it's like a pre-Mormon. It's a pre-Book of Mormon. It's a press release. Sure, right. It's a teaser. So Mark traded Ashworth for it. It's a poster coming soon. Book of Mormon. Whoa.

November. We gotta see that. We gotta read that. We gotta read it. We don't see things. We don't use that term at this time. It's 1800s. We can see things, though. But you just said we couldn't.

You did. You did. You just said we couldn't see things. Now you're right. Let's see it. We'll see it. I think we should see that when it comes out. Okay. Yeah, we're gonna do that. Yeah. Unless you listen.

So, Ashworth buys this one also. He brings both documents to the church. The church then has a second conference to address the new finds. Sure. And is anybody flagging this? Nope. It's all good. It's all fucking amazing. Particularly crazy.

Now, Ashworth is now a celebrity, like Mark, because he brought the documents. Uh-huh. Mark makes sure everyone, however, knows that he found them. Sure. Of course. He compared himself to Indiana Jones. Oh, my God. Well, we all were in our head. But you don't say that out loud.

Well, Mark is in a museum. Mark was the dog's name. And soon Mark has direct access to members of the First Presidency, which is a huge Mormon deal. I mean, he's got to be like, this is crazy. And then Mark found another letter.

No, no, David. When it rains and pours. Oh, Lord! Exactly to LDS President, Gordon Hinckley, who offered him $15,000. Well, I don't know. I mean, I guess I could take 15 grand. Sure.

When reporters asked how much, how Mark kept finding all these rare documents, he was vague. He said it was hard work, and there was a network of dealers, and tipsters, and blah, blah, blah. Hard work. Right. I'm the Indiana Jones of Bullshit. In 1983, Mark found another letter

from Joseph Smith Jr. What's this one? This is crazy! Does he have a detector? More letters! This one sent LDS into a panic because it implied Joseph Smith Jr. practiced black magic. Which was a huge fucking no-no.

This is what happens. It's just a different version of the culture, but it's like you've got to keep outdoing yourself. So you've dropped enough bombs now, now you've got to be like, also, he was an evil fucking wizard. What? I know. I'm as baffled as you guys.

I had to go to a lot of tipsters and tradesters to find this one, but it turns out this guy was crazy. He had a spider tattoo on his face! Yeah. That, you know, so that's a big deal. Yeah. Hinkley wanted it authenticated without anyone

untrustworthy finding out, so Mark knew the perfect guy in New York. Yes. Trust Mark You don't want it to go to anyone untrustworthy, so trust Mark with this. He went to Charles Hamilton, one of New York's most prominent autographed dealers. It was considered the nation's preeminent detector of forged documents.

FBI agents used his book to understand common. Now, but wait, Mark takes it there? He's got huge balls. What do you mean? I mean, I believe it. Hamilton declared it authentic

and worth $10,000. Quote, but the church will probably pay $25,000 just so they could burn it. And there it is. Mark sold it to Hinkley for $15,000. And then he leaked the info about the letter to the press

and other document collectors, including Ashworth. Now, Ashworth he was a huge Mormon, so he did not actually want to know about the black magic letter, but Mark told him anyways. No, no, no! What the fuck, man?

This whole thing relies on me not knowing the truth. No. No. No. So, it shakes his faith to the core? Sure. So he needs his faith restored.

So what do you do? You need your faith restored. Why? Well, you probably need to find a letter. So, he went to the church and looked at one of the most valued Mormon letters that were there. Joseph Smith's final letter to his wife

written in the Carthage jail. And he's like, this is beautiful. Mm-hmm. His faith is restored. Comes back, he tells Mark about what happened. Says, this is such a joyous day. And Mark says, you know what?

I know about the second Carthage jail letter. No. Oh, wait. No. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba! What? This is getting crazy! The gumption! And there's a second one.

What? He takes it all back. He's just retracting everything. Oh-hoh-hoh! Oh, I'm mind-headed, Mark. So Ashworth is like, I've got to have that letter. And Mark says, look, I'll find it. But I'm going to need it. It's going to cost 30,000.

You're going to need a front-load of the operation. Of course. This shit's getting harder. That's going to get easier. So a few weeks later, Mark comes back, but he's got a different letter. He doesn't have the Cart The Jail letter. The letter revealed Joseph Smith used black magic,

but also revised the story of Joseph Smith Jr. discovering the plates. What? This is really kidding. I mean, I'm not Mormon, and I'm starting to be offended. I'm being like, look, we're poking fun. This guy is fundamentally shifting the storyline of this shit. Yeah.

He's literally just blown it all up. You know, we think that Joseph Smith had a twin, Joey. He was an evil Joseph Smith. No. Yes. And they had a lightning war. What the fuck? Look, it's right here on this bullet letter.

Not bullshit letter. It's right here on this letter. Whoa, a lightning fight. And that's when he beat Joey, who now lives in the center of Earth, which we now know to be God's prison. Whoa. Take my money. So he's got this new letter.

The Mormon Church. Now, the Mormon Church believes that the angel, what? I don't know. Gabriel? Moroni or whatever it is. Moroni? Moroni. Right.

They believe that he is who showed Joseph the plates. Right, right, yeah. It was like that he was the bloodhound from the sky. That's right. This way, boy. This way, boss. Dig here. Dig here.

Dig here. What is it, boy? There's something down there in the soil? It's a new religion. What are you talking about? Come on, let's turn it. What? Moroni bad. All right, I'll dig a little bit.

Holy God, what the shit? Someone left some dinnerware down here. No, no, no. This one says, fuck a bunch of ladies. That's not actually in there. No, no, no. That is. No, even Moroni told me whom you can't see.

Is an apparition. Hands away. This one says we should all wear chaps. Hands up stand up. That is not. These are the later plates. This is not a good phase. This one says just ball gag.

Do you definitely have, look, give me a little space, please. Moroni and I are in mission. This is a separate whole. No, don't read what that one says. A little beads. All right, this is. I don't know why it's like, yeah, well, it's a question mark, which is equally puzzling.

I could have done without the check, yes, no box too. OK, so the new letter says that it wasn't an angel to show the plates. No, no, no, it was a garbage man. A quote, white salamander. What? Is this just a mad lib? What is happening?

A white salamander. I don't even know their natural color, but that nobody probably does though. That's still wild. He shows up. Actually, of course, it's going to be white. Yeah, that's right. It's true.

He shows the letter to Ashworth who read it and said, Mark, I don't want this. You can't let anybody except the church have it. This is a picture of his penis. No collectors have to explain something like this. It's poor bastard. My mark, Mark. Now, Mark knows this is a super-exposed letter.

He thinks anyone who goes to the first presidency's office with the letter is going to be considered an extortionist. Right, yes. So he doesn't want to go. Of course not. He shouldn't go. So he finds a middleman. He should send Moroni.

Moroni, I'll do it. He finds a middleman who brings it to Hinckley and asks for a $10 Mormon gold coin, which is worth $100,000. Oh, my God. I don't know. I mean, you know what you got to do? You got to take one of those coins to a Thomas Cook or something.

Just be like, how much American? American or Mormon? Either. American, it's worth about $15. Okay. Mormon? $100,000. Good to know.

Oh, I bet. Hinckley says no. So the middleman's like, what about the $40,000 book of commandments? And Hinckley's like, no. So Mark knew that was going to happen. This guy's quite a little negotiator. Mark knew that was going to happen.

Give me a gold coin. Give me a 10-cent piece. No? All right, just give me some original scripture. Come on, guy. Come out of the middleman. Now, Mark, I mean, this is going to happen, but you just want to see how the church would react to the letter.

Right. The church is now worried that the middleman will tell the public about the salamander letter. And if the public finds out about the salamander, it's game over. Yeah, for sure. So Mark suggested a wealthy church member buy it and then donate it to the church.

And then everyone will be, well, apparently that's a solution. They won't under fucking stamp. Okay. So the church can then deny that they bought the salamander letter because it was given to them. Oh, well, that's, I mean,

it's still earth-shattering news. Yeah. Mark knew a rich Mormon bishop and history buff named Stephen Christensen. He ran a financial consulting firm called Coordinated Financial Services with a guide in Gary Sheets. Christensen was described as, quote,

just about as perfect as a Mormon to get in this world. Okay. So he bought the salamander letter for $40,000 and made Mark promise not to tell anyone. Pinky swear mark. And he agreed. But then Mark went and told the Mormon underground, quote,

who were Mormon underground. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Buddy, buddy, buddy, buddy, buddy. You ain't dropping that and walking away. What? That's right. We wear regular underwear. Mormon underground. They have that song, The Hunky Dance.

So they were the most hostile to the church about the letter. I forgot to look up what the Mormon underground was. Well, Dave, believe me, I'm having fun anyway. I hope it's... I almost don't want you to ruin it. I assume it's a bam. Here's what I'm picturing.

You remember Denizlerian demolition, man? Well, that's what I'm picturing. The underground people. They live in sewers and eat rat burgers. Is that true? Well, I mean, demolition man's not a documentary, but that is what they're moving. Well, according to Utah, it could be.

Sure. Are you looking up the Mormon underground? Yeah, but all the camp up was undergarment. I'll have a look still. The Mormon underground fights back. So I guess it was some Mormons who... the first government per-persecuted them, and then they went underground.

Okay. We're moving, said Roy Potter. All right, I've seen enough. I'll just picture warm people. Yep. So, luckily, after all this, Mark finds the second Carthage jail letter. Finally, what's in it?

Well, he was supposed to bring it to Ashworth, remember? Yeah. But he didn't. Well, yeah. He's fragile. Instead, he sold it to a magazine. Oh, better. What magazine?

Tiger beat? Who's taking that out? Playboy. Playboy. Really? No. I could see that. I could actually see.

But that penthouse would be more... Yeah, or hustler, honestly. That's psychopath. So, Ashworth found out about when he read it, and he was now furious. But he still wanted to work with Mark, because Mark was getting all this stuff, and he was getting the Lord's work done.

Yes. So, the press, through again, unidentified sources, traced the salamander letter to Christensen. Okay. So, the church now had to make a statement while avoiding admitting the letter existed. The church had to make a statement

while avoiding admitting that the letter existed. Okay? They're in a bit of a bind. A bit of a bind! Quote, All of the scores of media stories on that subject apparently assume that the author of that letter used the word salamander

in the modern sense of a tailed amphibian. Ah. No, no, no, no, no. It was Arthur Salamander. Man. Mormon man. One wonders why so many writers are neglected to reveal to their readers

that there is another meaning of the word salamander. Yes. Duh. It's quit being so literal. Which may have even been the primary meaning in this context in the 1820s. That meaning is a mythical being thought to be able to live in fire.

So, are they trying to steer us back to Maronite? Or they're just like, we've got a different fire critter. A third angel. A being that is able to live in fire is a good approximation of the description Joseph Smith gave of Angel Maronite. Okay, so we are back.

Yes. That was actually pretty good. It's not good. I'm not gonna lie. It's not good. I think for the position they're in. Nobody thinks salamanders are made of fire things. No, but if you just fucking salamander.

If you just keep moving, if you just keep, you know, if you're just like, no, but when people think salamander, they think outdoors. When they think outdoors, they think sunny day. When they think sunny day,

they think dry leaves, or they think dry leaves, sunny day, they think fire. When I think fire, I think maybe someone who could penetrate fire. Maybe someone not of this earth, not of this realm, from another realm entirely.

Perhaps an angel brings us right back. Boom, Maronite. Okay. Your head's just spinning so much. Yeah. Man, that makes sense. That's how homeland would do it. Homeland would do it like that.

The Salt Lake Messenger published an article with the headline, Maronite or Salamander? Unicide. That sort of feels like the upcoming election. If the letter is authentic, it is one of the greatest evidences against the divine origin of the book. The book is one of the greatest evidences

against the divine origin of the book. It is one of the greatest evidences against the divine origin of the book of Mormon. But if it's real. If an investigation is begun into the letter, the guy who proved the Hitler Diaries were fakes was brought in. He confirmed the authenticity of the Salamander letter.

Wow. What? How is this? This is quite a forgery. So now they need to confirm the ink. Right. So Mark went to New York, and at this time...

Sorry, Mark is going to confirm the ink? Okay. Mark has just got a bunch of money now, and he goes off to New York. He's in a book, so he buys first editions of books from Lewis Carroll, Tolkien. Wait a minute. Christian Anderson, he's just spending money.

He's just spending money like crazy. Friends and family now at the same time start throwing money at Mark. They want to invest in his historical document business. Sure, of course. And Mark promised them all a 60% return. Sure. Quote, Mark was seldom on time for appointments

and sometimes arranged for investors to meet him late at night, and then disappeared into the darkness. He can do whatever he wants. Like, literally, he doesn't even have to show up for anything. That's the best kind of guy you want to be in business with. He's like, meet me by the bushes in the park. Batman?

He's like, I'm gone. What the hell? There's just a bunch of letters. Whoa. His check bounced. He suspected the IRS was tapping his phone. He let days pass before returning a phone call. He started to dress very sloppily.

When investors dropped in unexpectedly at his home, Dory sometimes said he was gone even though they could see his car in the driveway. And his feet. Mark, I'm not here. I'm not here. I'm not here anymore. I'm an apparition.

So Mark got investors also through parties where he would brag about his historical knowledge and his ability to get documents. His parents were now absolutely certain that he was destined for the highest rungs of the church. Poor parents. Oh, Mark. Why raise such a good boy?

So he's rolling in cash. All these people are giving him money. Yes. He looks for housing in the coveted Mormon neighborhood of Wasatch Hills. Sure. Wasatch? Wasatch?

Wasatch? Wasatch. That's what I said. Don't get mad at me. I didn't do it. He bought a first edition book of Sherlock Holmes for $22,000. It doesn't seem in line with the religion.

$7,000 for a second edition of Alice's Adventures in One Land. $10,000 for a first edition of Pinocchio and Morey. He loves books. And he loves Pinocchio. After a while, the Salamander Letters Inc. was authenticated. Christensen's business now, the guy who bought the letter and gave it to the jury, it's collapsing. And his faith is shaken by the letter.

Sure. Yet he still refused to sell the letter to the church. He would only donate it. Okay. And then Mark found the rarest document. I found a living Joseph Smith. This one had nothing to do with Mormonism. It was called The Oath of a Freeman.

The first document printed in the American colonies in 1639. Okay. 50 copies were made, none survived. But Mark, it was valued at $2 million. The Library of Congress began the process of authentication. Oh my God. Does Mark have a white salamander? Mark then commits to an investor, Al Russ, to lend him $150,000.

So he could buy the McClellan collection, which is a bunch of documents. Sure. A Mormon document. So Mark and Russ's son went to Texas to buy it. But Mark went in the house alone and then he came out empty-handed and he said the seller was freaked out and he emailed it to Salt Lake City instead. Okay. Mark told Al Russ he'd bring the collection in two days,

but he shut up a week later and told Russ he had sold the collection to the church for $300,000. Mark urged Russ to keep it a secret for the sake of the church and promised he would pay him back soon. But payment never came. So Russ starts looking for Mark. He's looking for weeks. And when he finally found... He needs Mark.

Mark can find him. When he finally found him, he demanded his money and berated Mark for two hours. After Russ got home, he said to his wife, it was the most peculiar experience I've never been so harsh on anybody in my life and I got no reaction at all. He didn't deny it. He didn't get mad. Apologize or anything.

He just sat there like it didn't mean anything. Well, that's normal. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. I know. Sucks. I know.

All right. I'm going to go into the darkness. Move on. The Library of Congress wanted to buy the oath of Freeman, but needed more time to authenticate it. Now, Mark dropped his price to 1.5 million. Oh, that's nice. The library tried to haggle, so he took it to the American Antiquarian Society,

which also wanted to authenticate it. So he's not selling documents as Vasily thought. He starts to go into a panic. So he goes too hinkly and he says he's in a really bad financial situation. How is he in a bad... That's crazy. He's spending all this money on books. I mean, he just put the amount of books insane.

And buying a house. That's crazy. Oh, no, he hasn't bought a house yet. So he tries to borrow 185,000 dollars from the church. Earned. The church members now became suspicious. So Mark... Finally.

How is that? That's what makes... It's weird that he needs money, isn't it? It's also normal now. Yeah, everything up until now has been amazing. It's off. So he goes to Christensen and asks for loan, saying he'd pay him back once the oath's sold. But Christensen's like, I don't have any fucking money, my business is failing.

So he takes Mark to Elder Hugh Pinnock. Quote, it was as though he sensed completely the potential damage which this material could cause in the hands of the enemy. Within minutes, he was able to arrange for Mark to receive 185,000 dollars in the form of a cashier's check. He was a director at First Interstate Bank. He got them to just crank out a loan really fast. Can I get one of those big checks, those things so far? Soon after Mark put in an offer for a $555,000 house. Okay, so...

Confusing moves. Yes. Christensen and Sheet's business is filing for bankruptcy. So it's all fallen apart. The pursuits of the oath of Freeman gets pushed back again. Okay. And Mark's investors are now demanding repayment. Okay.

Mark agreed to only take a million on the 1.5 million sale. And Ashworth is still mad at Mark for selling the loan to the magazine. This feels like uncut gems of Marble. So Ashworth has been talking shit about Mark everywhere. And that's super bad for your rep in the document business. Sure. In the document business. Right.

So Mark goes to Ashworth. And he says, I'll buy back the letter I sold you for 20,000. Wait. So Mark buys back the letter he had sold, that he had sold to Ashworth for 20,000. But he bought it for 116,000. And then Ashworth bought it back for 19,000. And another 41,000 worth of documents. So Mark lost $56,000.

He's just buying Ashworth's silence. Why can't he find more stuff? What happened? We'll get to that. I can't believe it. Okay. Did he find God? No.

Not yet. So Ashworth is not talking shit anymore. And then the American Antiquarian Society pushed the sale date back even further. And said they would only pay $250,000 for it. Wow. Okay. Jesus. So Mark owes altogether $945,000 between the IRS, his new house.

The house is crazy. Different deals, loans, bounce checks, and more. Right. Okay. So he said he found a second of Freeman. Oh my God. Yes. He told investors he needed $500,000 to buy it.

And he could sell it for $1.5 million. Three men stepped up. But then they heard from a bank employee that they should watch out for Mark because he was overdue on the $185,000 loan. So the investors went back to Mark and said, we want our money back. We want out. He told them he'd have their money at the end of the day. Uh-huh. Bernie Madoff's got it.

What he didn't tell him is that he'd already used it to pay back other debts. Oh, wow. He is. So he went and he had to use his bank account, which has $18,000, which is not enough. Yeah. What? That's a lot less than $500,000. Uh-huh.

He panics. He starts taking all of his books and going all around town and trying to sell them. But no one would buy them on the spot. Oh my God. He's got to be so desperate too. It's got to be like he's selling drugs. I mean, he's selling Tolkien. Really?

Yeah. You need to hit a T, Tolkien, huh? You want to suggest doing a little juror, Tolkien, huh? One of the three investors Mark had given the insurance money to had gotten his money from an accident in which he lost his hand and part of his arm. Talk about your hands, Mark. So he ends up tracking down Mark and just starts yelling at him. Okay.

And then, quote, responded with a blank expression. A blend of detachment and smug, it must be indifference, indifference, a look of indifference. So the investor leaps across the table and, quote, Hoffman felt the fist of Vincent's one good arm smash into his face. It's even stronger, dickhole. Conconciliated. Two arms. So Christian and Pinnock looked for Mark for two weeks after finding out he's selling books.

And Pinnock was mad about the unpaid loan, and they found him. And Mark told him a little bit of what was going on, pieces of his financial situation. So Christians gives him a date for Mark to transfer the McClellan collection to the church, which he has purchased, October 15th. So Mark starts to panic. He then tells Hank Lee that he had found a missing Joseph Smith translation of a fake golden plate. Wait, wait. Is that...

He's got nothing left. He's out of ideas. It's a B-side. It's a... It's like a live. Okay. So this would be massively embarrassing for the church. Sure.

And they bought it for $150,000. Oh my God. So please, Uncle, stop it. The church hid it in the first presidency's vault? That doesn't help. This vault? We're going to need a bigger vault. We got a lot of skeletons of this vault.

My God. Shady and shit right now. Keep this closed. The whole church blows up. Oh my God. So Mark starts getting death threats from investors. He makes out a will. Now, October 15th comes.

And a woman who worked for Christensen, who worked in his building, saw a package in his door when she came to work. Later, the woman saw Christensen walk in and she recall quote, heard a loud bang in the hall. She thought something had happened to the room itself, but she didn't know what. She didn't see the nails that exploded through the door and lodged in her walls.

What? She didn't see the nail that shot past her leg, grazing the skin and drawing blood. All she registered was the tremendous force of the explosion. The package was a bomb. Really? Prove it. It sent a nail through Christensen's left eye

and into his brain, killing him immediately. Holy shit. Two hours later, another bomb went off at the sheets home. Kathy, the wife of Gary Sheets, was the only victim. The following day, Mark was found next to his blown up car. He was alive, but his hand was mangled. Quote, as if it had been inserted into a butcher's chopping machine. As if.

As if. Wait, you want a pound of your hand? Yeah, hurry. 4.79 a pound? Great, love it. Yep. His kneecap was blown off. That sounds, I mean, you're playing, okay, very specific.

So, all right. A near drum ruptured as shrapnel wounds all over his body. Jesus. Now Salt Lake City freaks out. Document, because these are document guys, so document dealers start just fleeing the city. Not known for their bravery. The bomb squad got so many calls about suspicious packages

that several bomb sniffing dogs succumbed to exhaustion. We keep finding them, boss. Okay. A package delivery man was chased and beaten after he delivered a package wrapped in brown paper on a porch. Oh, it's pajamas. Tell them we're sorry. What?

Life for a delivery man is tough if you can't deliver a brown package. She'd go on next door, read all about it. Mark told the detective he opened his car door and a package fell to the floor and exploded. They door packaged him. They. But an ATF. Terrorists.

An ATF agent heard that and said that made no sense. The bomb was on the seat. Yeah. It seems like Mark was on the seat. Uh-huh. The agent said, quote, if Hoffman told you that, he might be your man. Okay.

Though most thought the bomber was a disgruntled investor from Sheet and Christensen's business. But someone saw Mark in a Letterman jacket enter Christensen's office the day of the explosion. So the police searched his house. They found the Letterman jacket. But everyone in town had the same jacket. Well, this isn't a clue.

Ah-ha! He's from Utah! All right. It doesn't help anything. The detective told Mark he knew he was a murderer, but no one believed it could be Mark. Detectives tried to press charges, but a federal prosecutor said,

you've got the wrong man. No one could come up with a motive. It didn't make sense. George... Seems real obvious in retrospect. George Throckmorton, Utah Attorney General Document Expert, had heard of the case.

He was very amused because, quote, there was no such thing as proof of a document's authenticity. The church was like, what? We just put a new vault in. What? No, that's our whole thing. I mean, we traded them.

That's our business. We need to make a series of phone calls. So, for instance, you can prove a certain ink and paper were used, but you couldn't tell if someone had just found old ink and old paper. So Throckmorton got a copy of this elementary letter from the church,

and he got the green light to investigate it, with William Flynn, who was an Arizona document examiner. Throckmorton was a Mormon, so he picked Flynn because he was a, quote, Catholic who doesn't even go to church. To hell. Throckmorton learned Mark used surrogates to donate documents, and the bomb parts could be easily bought at Radio Shack.

So then they connected an alias that Mark had written on an envelope at his house to a Radio Shack receipt with bomb parts. Same name. Okay. This is not looking great. The police also found a section of galvanized pipe in the trunk of Mark's car, much like the ones used with the pipe bombs.

Throckmorton and Flynn found a chemical was used to artificially age the documents, and they discovered Mark was a master forger, and therefore had a motive for murder. Mark's forgeries quickly unraveled. Old Bibles, 19th century contracts, books of Mormon, Mormon letters, hymn books, blessings, immigrant guides,

a Betsy Ross letter, a signed photo of Al Capone, the Anton transcript, a letter from Joseph's mother, black magic letters, the Otha Freeman, over 600 documents. Another autograph from Al Capone.

Didn't say I did it, and it said your name out. Yeah, for sure. I mean, this isn't real either. This is all in your head, Mark. There you go, baby. Thank you, Al. Wow. Damning.

Yeah. And millions of dollars worth of forgeries. Sure. It turns out Mark had spent years prepping for each forgery he made. So this is why he couldn't do them fast. Okay. So when examining Martin Harris' handwriting

on the Salamander letter, they compared it to other Martin Harris documents. What they didn't know was that those other Harris documents were given to the church by Mark years before. That's groundwork. That's foundation. It's investing.

So he'd literally been setting it up for years. It's the best. It is. Sure. They were authenticating forgeries by comparing them to Mark's forgeries. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Okay. That finally. Okay. Now, detectives believe Mark murdered Christensen for pushing him to fix his collapsing money scheme. Kathy Sheets was killed as a diversion. That's fun. Mark was charged with two counts of murder

and 28 counts of fraud and was looking at the death penalty. The state offered him a plea deal, but his father disagreed because his father believed in blood atonement. Dad? Ah, that's how we raised you, Mark. Dad?

Blood atonement. He agreed to it when you were a child. If he doesn't get killed, he'll go to hell. Mm-hmm. Well, that's an option. He said, this quote of, Satan got a hold of you, son, and you've committed these acts

you should confess and ask for the firing squad so you can be with us in the next life. But, Dad, I don't really believe in it anymore. Jesus. I'm surprised you haven't gathered that at all. Fucking, fucking, think about it, Dad! This is why I did all this shit! This is why...

It's like you're not there! I wanted a hug! I told you, we can't hug. That's the... We can! That's the RLDS you want to go to. They're the, uh... They're the huggers.

They hug a little too much if you ask me. You're fucking shut up! Okay. You're like a fucking boy! You said shut up, so I don't know if I've been talking to you. We're supposed to care enough to not shut up. Alright, your mother and I are gonna go. This is when you find some plates in your jail cell.

Whoa! I'm Jesus! No, Mark. Damn it. It's a Hail Mary. So is this when the Mormon Church was like, I knew Maron I was real. Salamander.

I didn't buy it for a second. It says a little far-fetched if you ask me. I never thought, I never thought I was real the whole time. No. I told you guys, didn't I? In January 1987, Mark pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree murder, one count of theft by deception and one count of fraud. He received four concurrent five years to life sentences.

Yeah, that's not terrible. It isn't. No, it's life. I mean, whatever. The Mormon Church was very quiet. Sure they were. We don't like to talk about that. It's a snag on the Marke Salamander is.

Uh, Pinnock personally paid back the $185,000 loan and the Church excommunicated Mark Hoffman. And what grounds? Being fucking awesome. Yeah. Mark quote, I won't go so far as to say I want to change Mormon history. Let me take that back. Maybe I did.

Okay. Anyway, I got to go with my hand smarts. I believe that the documents I created could have been a part of Mormon history. Oh, okay, Mark. Oh, okay. It's not so much what is genuine and what isn't. It's what people believe is genuine. That's very true.

It's like Santa. Forever. To me, it is unimportant if Joseph Smith had that vision or not as long as people believe it. The important thing is that people believe it. Okay, Mark. Good. Last one.

Okay. The important thing is that people believe it. Okay, Mark. Good. Last session. It's funny that he, oh, not funny, but it's a little ironic that he's now ending in the jail cell much like Joseph Smith. Wow.

Thank you. In January of 1988, the board of pardons met to determine the length of his sentence. He was said to be sane but, quote, inordinately self-centered and possibly narcissistic. Possibly. We're not sure yet. We want to need some evidence. About Kathy Sheets' murder, Mark said, quote, as strange as it sounds, it was almost a game. No, don't.

No. That's it. This is the board. In closing, my client would like to say it was a lot like a game. Super fun and really great. I figured it was a 50% chance that it would go off and 50% chance it wouldn't. At the time, I made the bomb. My thoughts were that it didn't matter if it was Mrs. Sheets, a child, a dog, whatever.

Good, Mark. Keep talking. For sure, keep talking, Mark. You're not helping. Keep going, Mark. Louis C.K. yourself, Mark. Keep the epic, Mark. Just keep talking.

Talking will clean it up. Keep going. Don't stop, Mark. It's getting better. Mark said the third bomb was meant for himself, but most people thought it was for Brent Ashworth, and just accidentally exploded in transit. The board decided he would spend his life in prison. Two months later, inmates said Mark was asking them to blow up members of the board.

Oh, my lord. I don't know if he'll be seeing his dad in the next room. Jesus. He denied it, but the prison intercepted coded letters asking his wife and others to help him. Those are forgeries. There still wasn't enough evidence to press charges. There's no way to determine exactly how many forgeries Mark made. At least 83 signatures were faked, including George Washington, John Adams.

George Washington. John Quincy Adams, Daniel Boone, John Brown, Andrew Jackson, Mark Twain, Orville Wright, Nathaniel Hawthorne. Orville Wright. Mike is amazing. So, so fun out there. You guys got to try it. Sincerely, Orville. Got to go.

My hand smarts. John Hancock, Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln. I'm going to start wearing really big, stupid hats. Honest aid. PS. My head hurts. And the next year, Mark's wife left him.

For what? Just like a bad boy? A few days later, he took a lethal amount of antidepressants. He was revived, but not before lying on his arm unconscious for 12 straight hours. Quote, as a result of the blockage to his circulation, the muscles in his arm are atrophied. The forearm is withered almost to the bone. The fine motor control that enabled him to create some of the most skilled literary forgeries the world has ever seen has irrevocably been damaged. With the loss of his arm, Mark Hoffman will never be able to forge again.

Sorry. I know that I'm not trying to make light of the attempt, but he was on his arm for 12 hours. That is going to change sleep for me for a long time. Well, he took pills, so he was out. When I sleep, I'm pretty out. I know. What's that band's name? There was a guy who...

No, what? Great guesses. These are terrible guesses. Great guesses. Megadeth. Megadeth. Megadeth. Def Leppard.

No, there was a guy who did heroin and he... The Lou Begum. I'm the number five. And he fell asleep like this, bent over, and then when he woke up he was paralyzed. What? I don't want to know this stuff. You've seen me sleep in transit. I do not want to hear this shit.

But you're not on heroin or pills. You don't know shit about what I do, David. You don't know me. You don't know what I do. Many of those involved in the Mark Hoffman affair believe the reshaping of Mormon history was his real purpose, consciously or not. In Mark's house, police found evidence that he was forging the 116 lost pages of the Book of Mormon. Oh, wow. Oh, my God.

He had a Lincoln Bohemian Rhapsody ready to go. Yeah, that was his fucking... Yeah, he was just... He had the Opus. He had the Opus. Yeah, so I found 100 and said, oh, my God, they'd have been like Jesus Christ. Mark, what do you need? I want the ocean.

We will figure out a way to get it to you. Wow. What a crazy story. Jesus Christ. Pretty normal. Yeah. Well... Anyway, so when some people, when they rebel against the religion, they really...

They really go all the way with it. And some religions, I mean, talk about faith. Holy shit. Good Lord. Yeah. Well... Uh-huh. That's something.

Anyway. Yeah. That's Utah. Yeah. Yeah. Fertile land. Fertile land. Huh?

What? Nothing. Well... Well, I hope whoever was watching, whatever they were watching on their phone, had fun. Yeah. Yeah. And probably the incurable moroni. Stinker.

Salamander. Yeah. Salamander. White salamander. He made up salamander. Uh-huh. Yeah. And they were just like, fuck, this sounds real real.

But that's what... You are full of shit. You have to be like, what is crazy, crazy shit that people be like, whoa. Like, you got to blind them a little bit with it, you know? Like, he's going big. Salamander. Yeah. Yeah.

It was a human cat. What? Come on, that's got to be true. Nobody can think that bullshit up. Crazy. Uh, well, Salt Lake City, thank you guys so much for coming out. We appreciate it. What a wild religion.

Thank you guys so much. Thanks for coming out. Thank you. Wow. There we go. Wow. Thank you.