The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 447 - Cassie Chadwick

Episode Date: September 15, 2020

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine Cassie Chadwick.SourcesTour DatesRedbubble Merch

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bilingual American History podcast where each week, I'm talking about each week, I 'm talking about Dave Anthony, Lover of Pillows. I'm only gonna do one this week, just I love Pillows. We are a hundred percent you're obeying them. Read the story to American History. To American History. From American History to his friend. Gareth Reynolds who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. Who interrupts a lot? Well because you're talking crazy you're saying crazy things. I don't know if it's crazy. It's crazy, trust me. Do you use pillows to sleep like when you're sleeping? Yeah. In a bed you... Okay, what's not to love

about that? It's just again for it to be the one thing that you're bringing up. It's weird. It's strange. You're strange. It's strange. Then you're saying to American History you're just all over the place. You took it to a very uncomfortable and disappointing place. You look drunk. I have a feeling you are drunk. Okay, so sometimes I drink in the morning. Okay. That's not my problem. That's your problem. And you didn't even have to let people know we're doing this in the morning. I did and yet I did. Yeah. Because I like to party. Okay. Alright. What you're basically on right now is Dave's party bus. This is a brand new podcast. I'm

ringing the bell. It's Dave's party bus. I want to get on next stop. I start drinking at 8 AM. Open these weird doors. And I call my friends. Open the doors. All around. I'm just going to jump out of it. I'm just going to jump out of it now. I don't want to be anywhere near it. I'd rather die. I say, what's up? You want on board the party bus? And people like Gareth go, yes I do. I'm jumping off a bridge. Yeah. I'm going to feel it's better here. Oh, look, a rock. I'm going to dead in my own head. The party bus turned into a bummer. No, man. Not going well. It never goes well. No, no it doesn't. And called it, quote, his jam patch. I'm the fucking hippo guy. My name's

Gareth. My name's Gareth. Wait, is it for fun? And this is not going to come to Tickly Podcast. Okay. This is like an out of five part proficient. My room is clean. Now hit him with a puppy. You both present sick arguments. No, sleep down hippo. That's like down hippo. Actually, part of me. Hi, Gareth. No. I sleep down, my friend. No. No. Ronda. Ronda in the car. Yay. And we should also, we should tell people about what we're doing on the 24th, David. We're doing a live online dollar. I think that's what it's called. Sure. What is that? I mean, is that the tech? I think we're doing a virtual dollar. That's what we could say. We're going to be online. We're going to be live and people can buy the tickets.

Yes. To go to that. So, you know, live your life. Yes. That's what I'm saying. And this is, this is going to be a big part of you living your life. Yeah. This is how you're going to get out and do something. Stay home and watch us do this podcast. Yes. That's right. So it'll be 6pm on September 24th, Pacific Daylight Time. So you can work out wherever you are in the world. But I think that's like around noon-ish for Australia or something like that. And look, if you're in another country and the time doesn't match up for you, you're going to have 24 hours to get a ticket to walk. Yep. So yeah. Join us for a virtual dollar.

And then very quickly, I, on October 24th, will be doing virtual stand-up. And you can do that. You can go onto my Twitter or website, rushticks.com, Gareth Reynolds. And then join me for Gareth's Thursday Night on Instagram Live at 6pm Pacific Daylight. I didn't approve that. October 10th, 1856. Or 1857. Or 1859. What? 1850-ish. But we know it's October, we know it's October 6th, 10th, Jesus. We just don't know the year. Okay. Elizabeth Bigley was born in the small town of Eastwood, Ontario, Canada. Okay. She was called Betty. Oh, sure. That's her name. Yep. Makes sense. Because a lot of times you'll call on Elizabeth Betty for short. We're getting, we get some,

people say we don't get fax from you, but we get fax. I think I'm, again, I'm operating from the gut. So her father was a railroad worker. Not a lot is known about her mother. They had eight kids. Okay. It's cranking them out. Betty was a very naughty child who loved quote, pretty things. Sure. Sure. Okay. And she stole them. She stole from her own family so much that if something was missing, everyone knew to just go look for it in Betty's room. Yeah. Home cat burglaring is not, it's pretty like easy to undo. They're like, oh, look, it's here, asshole. Yeah. Anything she saw, she's like, well, that's mine now. She just take it. Yeah. Betty stole it. It's here. When she was a young girl, she lost her hearing

in one ear. And then from that, she developed a speech impediment. So the result of that was that she started speaking less. And so she, she used few words and she would be very careful about the words that she spoke. Okay. Okay. Her classmates called her peculiar, which is just not a great name. No. Nickname. No. She would sit in silence as if she was hypnotized for hours. Well, Dave, to be fair, a child whose name is Elizabeth that everyone's calling Betty who never says anything and is a burglar is peculiar at that age. I mean, if you want to be technical, it's peculiar. So her sister said when she would snap out of these hypnotized trances, like things she was in, she seemed just disoriented and bewildered. Like she

would come out of it and be like, what? What am I? I stole mother's pearls again. I completely Oh my Lord, I blacked out. How did I get here? Who am I? Listen to me. Listen to me. Listen to me closely. I am a quantum leaper. I come from the future. My name is Sam. Please help me get to my place, my home. No, that's a TV show. No, I'm Sam. I promise. My name is Sam. No, it's a TV and I'm lost. I'm here with Al. Al's here. He's got a little computer. He's talking to Ziggy. What happened? Oh my God, are these stolen items? Oh boy. It's quite a journey she went on. It's quite a life, quantum leaping. So when she was 11, she goes to this barber shop and she asked for a haircut and a fake mustache. What? Who?

Just a little off the top and then I'll take a Boo Man Chew. Thank you. That's all it said. Yeah, I would like pigtails and a ginger goatee. Thanks so much. And then after that, after the haircut and the mustache are done. I'm sorry. So the man provided, the person provided a mustache? I'm just assuming. I'm assuming he did. There's nothing else. Okay. So then she pulls out a gold watch and she tries to sell it to the barber. She's like, hey, man, you want to watch it? So the barber at this point is like, all right, I'm not comfortable any longer in this situation. Hey, can I pay you in gold for my mustache? Sure, little girl. So he calls the cops. The cops come and they scold her. They scold her. It would be great

if they overlooked her at first, just like, all right, now where's this little girl, little man? Point us to her. Love you, mustache. She looked like George Harris. All right, let's go. And then they take her to her dad. Her dad lectures her. So she's gotten two, you know, she's completely unaffected by it. The consequences of that don't mean anything. Another sister said Betty practiced writing signatures of adult family members in her free time. That's, but a lot of kids have that hobby. A lot of kids love to forge around that age. I know I started forging when I was like eight. Yeah, that's the right time. Yeah. Yeah.

They teach it. They teach it in Boy Scouts now. That's right. I wonder, yeah. So these are troubling developments for a child. I think that's safe to say. I would say they're not great. Theft, mustache, forgery, quite a list. So when she's 13, Betty has business cards printed up and they look, they look exactly like the ones that all the social elite have at the time. And she's 13. That's right. So she's counterfeiting at an adult age. Yeah, she's really, yeah. Her business card reads Ms. Bigley, Eris to 15,000. What kind of, is that normal for a

business card? I don't, I don't think you put your inheritance, what your inheritance is going to be on a marathon hoping for around 60,000. Hi, everybody. She also starts taking advantage of the local shops, I would say lax practices. She would go in and she'd pick out an expensive item and then she'd go to pay for it and she would accidentally write a check for an amount that was more than the price. She'd be like, oops, I wrote it for 500 more. You just keep that.

Then the merchants would give her the cash difference. Well, what, see, this is, I mean, again, we're just in the land of firsts. This is just like she just, I mean, oops, I wrote it for 500 too much. Well, little girl, let me give you half a grand. That's right. So, so she'd take that money and then, and then the checks would bounce obviously. And you know, that's it. Nothing else I do because she's, she's in the wind. Yeah. A little girl, a little girl with a mustache came in and ripped me off again. Right. So if an owner, a store owner didn't believe her, doubted her, she would whip out

that card. Right. So she's got proper, yeah, because she says how much she's owed. Who had print up a card unless they were the person? It's impossible. It's a card. They're not just going to give those to anybody. You have to go to the card university. And it would, it would work. Once they saw the word heiress, they'd be like, oh, okay. I am so sorry. Here is $5,000 little mustache girl. So at one point she, she cons a farmer, a very young farmer at $250 and the police end up

arresting her, but they let her out after just one night in jail because she charms the judge into letting her go. She's like, oh, but I'm just a little very pretty girl. Besides, you know, she's also very good at just working people. She can work the judge, she can work the cons, she works everything. So when she's 15, she forges a letter of inheritance claiming that a distant English uncle had died and left her $5,000. Okay. Great. So she goes to a bank and a bank teller looks at it. He believes the letter is authentic and the bank gives Betty the money.

Well, I guess, okay. So we're just dealing with a totally, totally different system. I would say the system is a little bit lax. I'm going to try this very soon. You see a great uncle of mine has passed away. So here's something I wrote down. I'm getting $25,000. Can I have it in ones and twos? So she, she just repeats this scam at a bunch of other banks and doesn't get, and then she lives off of it and she's just living high off the hog and doesn't get caught for months. Okay. Well, I'm fully on her side. The banks are, should be stolen from if they are letting tellers give people money like this. Yeah.

She goes to trial for fraud and forgery and her lawyer gets her acquitted for temporary insanity. So she's, and then after this, she kind of vanishes for about 10 years. There's no record over her. Some, some accounts say that she was working in brothels in Toronto and London. So she, she comes back. She reappears in Cleveland in her mid twenties. Boy, what that's, that's not where you want to reappear. Oh no. Throw another smoke bomb. Well, go to another city, Indianapolis. I'll take it. Well, she gets there and she goes, what the fuck is with all these racist baseball hats? These rivers are on fire. We call them Chief Wahoo. Smoke bomb, smoke bomb, smoke bomb.

Well, that's what her, her recently married sister, Alice lives with her, her husband Bill. Yeah. And I'm sure she was very excited to see her sister again. Oh, for sure. So she gets there, she gets there and she tries to talk her sister and brother-in-law into giving her a loan because she wanted to start a clairvoyant business. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Nothing weird there. They passed on funding that awesome business. I knew you would. So Betty goes around the house and takes stock of what's in the house and then she goes to banks and to borrow money. She does, she secretly mortgages their furniture, which I guess was a thing. Oh my

God. What a nightmare. I don't think we can afford it. Yeah. I just can't get over the fact that you're like, hello, sir. I would like to mortgage my chair. All right. A large fluffy chair. I would like to mortgage it. Well, I'll give you about $200 for your chair. We'll put that in the chair vault. That's not a problem. Oh, I'm going to France. You have any end tables or lamps or anything? Again, we are just your run of the mill bank. Is there anything else? Like an ottoman potentially? Yeah, it's an ottoman. Great. All right. That will be $250 for the ottoman. What the fuck is this place? Okay. There you go. Oh my God. I'm sorry. I'd forgotten how much I love banking. Yes. Do you have any stocks you'd

like to sell or anything? No, just furniture. Okay. We can play the stock market. That's a lot of people like to put their money in that divest. You know what I'm saying? But that's no problem. I mostly buy furniture and then when I pay it off, I get more money for it. It's a completely normal practice and I see nothing strange about it. So she goes to a bunch of banks. She does this at several banks. So these and they don't even think, I'm sorry, but they just, they don't even need to like see a chair. No. What, from what I read is she just, she knew, she went around and studied them all and like probably said who made it and what was, and then. So all you need to do is know the name of the

furniture and then you're like, you don't even need to go around looking at, you could just go to any, you could go to a furniture shop and be like, I've got 30 of these lamps. Can I have a million dollars? Also, but it's also, it's such a crazy idea that I could see how they would think no one would do it. I see that today, but I mean, look, I do not have the back of the banks in any way today, but at least they're like, I'm going to need to see this chair. I think one thing you're going to learn in this story is that all banks are fucking moron. So that should actually be the title of this episode. She gets caught eventually and Bill, her brother in law kicks her out of the house. I assume that they lose

all the furniture. Well, yeah, the people are probably coming to get it. Like, all right, we had a good run. We're eating off the table right now. Sorry. You got your money fair and square. You know the deal, Betty. So when she's 25, Betty poses as a wealthy socialite and she meets a doctor Wallace Springsteen and he is just super into her. He's just smitten. Who wouldn't be? This is the Smithsonian description quote, Betty was rather plain with a tight, unsmiling mouth and a nest of dull brown hair with eyes that had a singular intensity and the gentle lisp of her voice seemed to impart a quiet truth to her every word.

Be still my heart. Look at how small her little lips are. Boy, she's got a list that goes for days, fellas. So they get married on December 3, 1883. A few days later, merchants show up at their home demanding their money back. So this is a shocking to the doctor and he hires a PA, a PA, I mean, a PA would be better. Bring me that notebook. Can I get a like a smoothie?

Absolutely. Yes. Does anyone else want anything from Crafty? You're a fact. Good luck with all the banking stuff. The PA digs up her history of fraud in Canada and 12 days into the marriage, the doctor files for divorce when he finds out Betty has used his property as a collateral for large bank loans. Well, that's, that's tough. I mean, it's tough to find out someone's cheating on you. It's maybe tougher to find out that they're just mortgaging your life behind your back. Betty, this gentleman from the bank says that you've sold everything that I own.

So she, I mean, I guess she, I must have been legal because, because he loses the house. He loses his home. What? Yeah. Yeah. And the divorce is granted on the grounds of infidelity. So for the next few years, Betty travels around the east and she's using different identities and she's conning merchants to get by. In Buffalo, she pretended to be an absent millionaire's wife in Erie. She convinced a bunch of guests at a hotel that she was Civil War General William Tecumseh Sherman's niece.

I feel like she could convince them that she was him. Yeah. She said she was trying to get home to Cleveland and she got all the guests to feel really bad for her, quote, through a trick of extracting blood from her gums and led persons to believe she was suffering from a hemorrhage. What? So she's just gum cutting? She's like, she's like, it's like a pro wrestling socialite. It's really amazing. Also, just the fact that you're talking to someone else and blood's just coming out of their mouth and you're, Oh, sorry. I'm hemorrhaging. Does anyone have bus fare for Cleveland? Who can get me to

Cleveland? Yes, my teeth are rotting and falling out of my head. My husband's an absent millionaire. How could I get to Cleveland? So sure enough, they all loan her money and then with the idea that when she gets to Cleveland, she would pay them back. But when they write to her to get her payment, they got replies that said, quote, the poor woman died two weeks ago. She died. Her teeth exploded. Her mouth just pops. It was really horrible. But that's what happens when you see someone bleeding gums that it's going to lead to a head explosion.

Yeah. Her head just popped right off like a daisy. So in 1885, Betty returns to Cleveland. Now she's going as Madame La Rosa. Madame La Rosa is a clairvoyant and she's offering fortune telling fortune stealing. She starts willing men. She marries a farmer named John R. Scott. Oh, this poor pastor. He's like, well, she's pretty good. I actually really do like her. So I think we're just have a sweet patient life on the phone. What do you mean all my crops for the next three years have been sold? That's impossible. She's with them for a little while. I mean, much more than 12 days, I think years.

But before they got married, she demanded a prenup. Of course. I don't want you taking half of my psychic abilities. She demanded it because, quote, she suffered abuse at the hands of her first husband. Oh, no, this is the one. She divorced him in two months. I'm wrong. I'm not yours. So she divorces him in two months and she gets a small fortune and he loses the farm. So whatever the prenup was, it was weighted heavily in her favor to get everything. And he just gets destroyed. After this, through her business, she meets and marries C.L. Hoover and they actually have a son, Emile.

Call me C.L. Hoover and this is my son, Supper. Hoover dies after a few years. So she's the one that she's with like four years. She gets a $50,000 inheritance and that she gets that money. She sends a meal to Canada to live with her parents and she moves to Toledo and opens up her very first official clairvoyant shop under the name Madame Lydia Devere. Just really no care for consistency, but okay. Done. She claims she could, quote, make sick men healthy and poor men wealthy. Sure. And wealthy men poor. And yes. Then she said about using her skills to get large sums of money from the most vulnerable

male clients. For wealthier customers, she actually hired private detectives to dig up dirt on them sometimes before they even came to their first appointment. So she, then she would use embarrassing or incriminating information to blackmail them. You really jiggle your penis a lot after you pee. What? Yeah, you should probably give me $50,000. Okay. Joseph Lamb paid Betty $10,000 to serve as his financial advisor. Oh my God. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Give your money to the money locus. That's what you should do. 100%. You're the only person I can trust.

Yeah. If there's a fortune teller in town, this is who you get to be your financial advisor. So she convinces Lamb to lend her small sums of money and slowly increases it until he's lending her thousands of dollars. And then over time, she manipulates him into working scams with her, which are mostly these bank loan schemes that she's been doing. And she makes $20,000 with him doing these scams. Okay. And he doesn't even know? He does. He's in on it. I'm not sure how that whole thing worked, at least smaller ones I don't get into that much. So a Cleveland banker notices some of the approved notes are not genuine. And he tells other bankers and a detective puts it all together and then

Betty and Lamb are arrested for fraud. But only Betty is charged because the court considered Lamb to be her quote puppet. But real quick, Dave, if your last name is Lamb, how the fuck do you not just take off? Like that's your destiny. You're like, I'm the best at this. I'm on the lamb. I'm on the me baby. But he's like, no, I'll just go into jail. Okay. So wait, he's acquitted. Why? Because they're like, he's just an idiot. Well, they didn't even charge him because they thought he was her puppet. Like she was just working him the whole time. Her arrest record read quote, Madame Devere, alias Lydia Scott, alias Lydia Klingo, alias Miss Bagley, alias Miss Dr. Hoover, tried for forging a note.

Dr. Hoover. So at the trial, Lamb said Betty used hypnotic powers to control him and every male client she scammed. He's released. Betty is convicted and given nine and a half years. She's now about 33 years old. When she gets the nine and a half years. Yeah. Okay. In jail, she really, she told one warden that he would lose 5,000 in a bad business deal and then dive cancer. And both of those things happen. And then the prison staff was terrified of her. Oh my God. Yeah. Well, of course. What? That's weird. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely interesting. The governor and future president, William McKinley, then pardon Betty for good behavior after three and a half years. Okay.

She goes back to Cleveland and starts using the name Cassie Hoover. She said she was a widow. Of course. My husband was quite wealthy, believe it or not. Miss Hoover opened a brothel. Sure. And one day, and she used it to meet men. So one day, Betty met Dr. Leroy Chadwick at the brothel. He was a very, very wealthy doctor, a single dad. And he was recently widowed. She senses like he very recently widowed. And so she senses he's vulnerable and she moves in. Sure. Of course. Man, the fact that she's using last name Hoover and about to suck this guy dry. They speak for a while the first time. And when the brothel comes up, I can't, I've read

this like 10 times and I still can't understand it. Betty calls it, quote, a respectable boarding house for men that teaches etiquette to girls. And Dr. Chadwick jokes and says, well, it's a brothel. And then Betty pretended to be appalled by the comment and she fakes fainting into his arms. And then when she comes to, she begs Chadwick to quote, take her away from this wretched place so that no one would associate with its disgusting affairs. So I get it. So she's, I think that she's there and she's acting like she doesn't understand what it is. Yeah. And so he thinks she's a lady in distress, like she's been conned into this. Oh, okay, right. I get it. I don't understand. He's just, he loves this. I love

a woman who starts a brothel and doesn't know it. So I think that's why I got thrown off is that she started the brothel when I think to him, she was just portraying herself as a woman who was just there. Right. Right. Okay. So the, the day she meets Chadwick, she writes in her diary, quote, Miss Cassie Chadwick. I like the sound of that. I have been husbandless as Cassie Hoover for too long now. I thought I would be happy when I opened my own brothel on the west side of town, but instead I'm just lonely. Today, a wealthy widower named, named Dr. Leroy Chadwick entered my establishment and I immediately saw him as a ticket out of this dreary place. I feel giddy with anticipation. If this all

works out, I soon could be Miss Cassie Chadwick, a wealthy socialite and the wife of a doctor. First of all, you've already married a doctor. So I understand not as Cassie. So she, I mean, she's, she's deep in this. Yeah. After a very short courtship, they get married in 1897. So she's officially now Miss Cassie Chadwick. Chadwick is old. He's old money. He, he's from a well respected, established Cleveland family. He has many wealthy influential friends. She keeps notes on all of them. Chadwick lived on Euclid Avenue, which is that time known as millionaires row and the most beautiful street in America. Yes. Cleveland once had the most beautiful street in America. Different times, different era. Soon after the wedding,

she goes to New York. She goes straight to the Holland house, which is a hotel on Fifth Avenue noted for its a gilded banquet room and a $350,000 wine cellar. She does not check in. She's just hanging out in the lobby until she accidentally runs into James Dylan. He's one of her husband's esteemed, rich Cleveland friends and a prominent lawyer. And he just happens to be staying at the Holland house. So after some small talk in the lobby, she asked Dylan if he would go with her on a trip to her father's home. And he goes, okay. And they call it carriage. And then she says the address and he recognizes it because it's a very famous address. It is Carnegie's mansion. Okay. So she's my father, Andy. He's just

the richest man on earth. Yes. You know, you've heard of my father. Oh, yeah, his daddy. So he's, he's shocked when he hears this. And then he's even more shocked when the carriage indeed stops out in front of the four story mansion and Cassie hops out and walks up to the front door. She knocks and housekeeper answers and then she walks in. So Cassie goes up to the door and she says, she tells the maid to answer. She says, I'm hiring a maid and I'm checking on references on one before I could employer and the housekeeper in the butler said they had not heard of the maid that Cassie was referring to, but they offered to look into employee records just in case. So Cassie keeps chatting with them for as

long as she can stay in the house as long as she can. And she ends up staying for about 30 minutes. Well, well, so Dylan's outside the whole time waiting. And when she comes out, she sees that. And so she makes a big show of waving to the housekeeper and butler as if they're a dear old friend. It's so good to see you again. Oh, I missed you all. Bye, Bishop. Bye, Lusanne. So Dylan is just shocked. And then Cassie gets in the carriage and then she accidentally drops a folded up piece of paper, which lands at his feet. Oh, fake dropping papers. So like pretty transparent. He picks it up. He picks it up. And now it's fallen in a way that it opens so you can see what's inside. Oh dear.

Why is my hand not able to grasp it? It's flattening it out almost as if I'm showing it to you. Oh, what a clumsy oaf I've become. That's why father calls me Butterfingers Carnegie. So Dylan sees Carnegie's signature at the bottom of the paper. It was a quote promissory note from Carnegie himself for a colossal chunk of cash two million. Sorry that took so long. Dad just had to write out that he was going to give me two million. Anyway, where to? What do you feel like? Arby's? So she acts shy and she very, very quietly and shyly confess confesses the whole the whole story to Dylan. Turns out she's the only illegitimate child of Andrew Carnegie and had reached out before finally revealing she was his daughter.

She had expressed, quote, guilt and a feeling of responsibility. And then after he supported her financially, but she was sworn to secrecy. She usually got about two million every time she visited her dad. But it would be, quote, nothing compared to the 400 million inheritance that she was promised. And Dave, I wonder if she's about to ask this guy for some. Well, she begs him to keep her secret. She feels like you cannot. Oh, please. Oh, if people hear this, they'll know it's bullshit. Just please bite your tongue. So Dylan convinces her to get a safety deposit box to put all the promissory notes in. Yes, you need a note box because that's how banks work. Yes, we're an upside downtown. So then he gives her a

receipt for the seven million worth of notes without checking the actual authenticity of them. And then once a bank employee saw the promissory note, now, I'm not sure how this part worked, but I guess being a lawyer, he was able to do it. So I think he takes them and opens up a box for her and then gives her a note. Now remember, I think one of the reasons is because women can't really do banking at this time like this. Right. They can just trade furniture to banks. Yeah, right. Okay. So this is also an era where a lawyer was the trustworthy. Oh, he's a lawyer. Well, you can trust it. Yeah, then it's all good. Yeah. Right. So now a banking employee of some kind sees the promissory note and then

news just spreads all over fucking Cleveland, like everyone, every bank near Cleveland now is trying to get Cassie to do business with them. They want her open accounts. They start offering her huge loans at ridiculously high interest rates. Because this is the perfect thing, right? You've got this person who has a promissory note from one of the richest guys in America. So she's good for it. So you want to throw money at her and make money off that. Yep. Absolutely smart. I wonder why banks collapse so much. And she was fine with it because she had the money obviously to pay him off from Carnegie. So she just took all the loans. She goes from bank to bank, taking loans to pay off interest from

her other accounts. So now, right, she's taking loans. It's like when you've got like eight credit cards going, right? It's no different. And you're using one to pay off the other. And so she's just, she's just, you know, working the system. She's got more pyramids. Yeah, she's got more pyramids games than Cleopatra again. Now, during this, I don't know what her husband is thinking or what's happening, but she's spending money like fucking crazy. Yeah. So going from bank to bank, she offers her forged promissory notes as assurance to banks that were hesitant to prove her large loan requests. And then I think because one bank's doing it, it makes the other bank want to do it. Yeah, that's how they operate. Yeah,

it's just dominoes. So Cassie even managed to talk her way out of any attempt to authenticate her forgeries, quote, equally charmed and easily cousin. The bankers provided her with generous lines of credit and she asked only her curves be used as collateral. I don't know what that means was within several weeks. We're going to take your hips. We've come to take your goddamn hips, you liar. Within several weeks, she created an endlessly inflated cycle of spending. So her status in Cleveland is through the roof now, like she's the queen of Cleveland, right? That's what she's known as. She's known as the queen of Ohio in Cleveland. Wow. She assumes that

Carnegie, who's now in his late sixties, is going to die before her lie is discovered. And then she would, she actually thinks she's going to cash the forged letter of inheritance and claim his entire fortune. Like that's her game plan. It's pretty bold, but honestly, doesn't sound crazy. When you can go into, when you can go into banks and just be like, um, yes, I want to sell a dinner table, but here's money for that. Not even sell, not even sell mortgage. Yeah. No, yeah. No, just explain, just tell the tale of it.

I'm going to tell you the story of a chair and then you give me money. Okay. But I'm going to be making sure this chair sounds authentic. If there's any holes in it, I won't. That's my job. It's got a cushion and it's made of wood. Say no more. This chair sounds 100% real. Here's a grand. There's no doubt in my mind this chair exists. Pillow, wood. She's done her homework. Guys, crack the bolt. So anyway, she's convinced that she could trick all the bankers and lawyers and anyone who can test, who would contest the inheritance because Carney would, Carney you would be dead.

So in the meantime, she's spending, spending, spending. She buys pretty much anything and everything. Quote, a perpetual motion clock encased in glass, a $9,000 pipe organ, a musical chair that plunked out of tune when someone sat down. What, Dave, bring that technology back. Can you fucking, every time I sat down and just played, she's a grand old flag. A chest containing eight trays of diamonds and pearls, inventoried at 98,000, 40,000 rope of pearls, custom-made hats and clothing from New York, sculptures from the Far East,

furniture from Europe. During the Christmas season of 1903, the year after James Dylan told all Cleveland about her connection to Carnegie, she bought eight pianos at a time and presented them as gifts to friends. Even when purchasing the smallest toiletries, she insisted on paying top dollar. If a thing didn't cost enough to suit her, one acquaintance reported, she would order it to be thrown away. She ate pianos? You know what is hilarious is when I first read that, that was the thing that also...

It's crazy. Well, also, who gives, you are the worst gift-giver. Oh. Oh, you got me a fucking piano? Are you kidding me? Yeah. Now you don't have any room for your other stuff. Maybe I should take you to the bank. I don't play piano. Well, you better start, because this thing really eats up the living room space.

Well, but you know why? Because we already have a piano. I know. It looks nice next to that other one. Maybe if you guys both started playing, you could duel, dueling pianos. I don't want to go to that bar, nor do I want that to be in my living room. Well, you better make some room, because a drum kit's coming. So, I'm going to move some of this stuff. So she redecorates the Chadwick home to look like, quote, an Oriental palace. Okay.

She is throwing parties. She threw one party that cost $100,000, which would be $3 million today. Oh my God. Jesus Christ. I mean, she is fucking blowing through money. She's about blowing through. Dave, her dad is Andrew Carnegie in her head. She has 30 closets of gowns. Oh my God.

She buys a piano made of gold. What live a rock she would be like, call down. Trump would be like, it's not enough. Can you poop in it? She traveled first class to Paris and Belgium every month to shop at Hyen Boutique. Okay. So she's, yeah, it's a good run. Look, I bet you, Badoff's life was pretty fantastic for a while. We don't hear about how, you know, the good years, the great, you know, it's just it ends

so sad, but it's like for a while, it's just, okay. That's what I always think. That's what I always think about with these people is that, I mean, they're, they're literally living a life that is unimaginable. But the fact that they don't realize there's an end coming, like the main office, the classic one, like, how do you not see that there? Or, I mean, I think when it's, when the walls are closing in, you do recognize the end, but you have all those years where you're just like, I can't believe I'm getting, you

must just be like an awe of yourself. But I cannot believe, I cannot believe how fucking dumb these people are. This is fucking crazy. That's it. That's it. You're like, I'm not going to get caught because everyone's a fucking idiot. Yeah. I've got Kevin Bacon's money.

So at one point, she is importing more valuable articles than anyone in the state of Ohio. Okay. She establishes an illegal jewelry smuggling operation between Europe and the US. What? From a report, quote, Cassie Chadwick smuggled into the United States during her lifetime over $2 million worth of merchandise, which with a 60% tariff added constitutes a home value of $3 million adjusted, that would be 93 million. So she's just bringing, so she, I mean, yeah, so, okay.

And that's just because she's rich. She can just get away with it. I mean, rich in her head. Yeah. People believe. Yeah. During one of her parties, a female guest observed, quote, the contrast between Cassie and the other women was apparent.

A double necklace of diamonds circled her full throat. There were diamonds on her shoulders and diamonds on the front of her dress. She scintillated with diamonds. You know, Paul Simon was at that party like, you want to lift up your shoes? You got in the hair? So this is going on for years. I mean, the bank loans weren't enough. She managed to now get personal loans from private bankers and investors in Ohio and New

York. One of those is CG Beckwith, who's the president of the Citizens National Bank in Oberlin. He's one of Oberlin's most well-respected citizens. He's considered to be a very shrewd and smart banker. And one day, Cassie invites Beckwith through her home, the Chadwick home, and he comes and there's a picture on the wall of an old man with a beard. And Beckwith sent you. Oh, that's, that's my uncle, Santa.

You don't want to know about that. Oh, it's a long, what? It's a long, no, you don't want to hear, no, shut up. Shut up. And Beckwith said, she told the tale, quote, that picture was of an uncle of Chadwick. This uncle was not wealthy, but regularly kept the Chadwick family supplied with money. Just how Ms. Chadwick did not know at that time, the uncle was taken sick and upon his deathbed, he called for Ms. Chadwick and told her a secret.

The secret was that the family were related to Carnegie. The proof of this was in the safety deposit value of a New York bank, the name of which Ms. Chadwick held back. So her story is morphing and becoming more and more crazy, but it's all just about the connection she has to, to Carnegie, because this is a totally different story than the one. I think she also, you also have to be like, when you're this deep in a grift, you also, there's probably some sort of adrenaline pump that is in this.

So you are just sort of hooked on, you know, hooked on the drug of getting away with it and pushing it just to eventually you're just like, well, this is a dinosaur. So he gives her $120,000 loan from his private fortune and another $240,000 from his company, the bank. She knows bankers want money. And then here's the deal. She's giving them all bonuses. So if a banker comes to her and or she goes to one and wants a loan, she says, you're

going to get a massive bonus. So right. So it's, it's just greed. And it's just like they're being nonsensical and not seeing what this is because they're getting $20,000 of some shit, right? They're just getting a gob of fucking money. Yes, as we, as we often return to Dave, the capitalist system makes you better. Now with accounts with over a dozen Ohio banks and loans from countless personal finances,

she began to come up with ways to delay repayments. She told bankers her estate and wealth were managed by three New York trustees. And she wasn't able to get a hold of her finances until she could get it approved by one of the trustees who was named William Baldwin. So she's put it all on this guy. This guy has my money and he has to approve it and then I can pay you back. But whenever someone, one of these bankers tries to get in touch with Baldwin, they can't.

There's always an excuse. Cassie shared them that quote, the Ohio banks were to be made the trustees of the estate as soon as the contract with the then alleged trustees was ended on July 1st, 1903. I just need to get in touch with Billy Baldwin and then if Alec will sign off of it and then Stephen is the one who has to know the guys, those are the trustees madness, okay. So another time Cassie said a Pittsburgh banking firm held power of attorney to manage her estate and in order to fill, to fulfill her promises to the bank, she had to go through the main Pittsburgh branch and that could take several weeks.

So the implication is that her money is wrapped up in so many different hoops and sublaws and it's almost impossible to get direct access. Sure. Yeah. Of course. Which is, I mean, that's what you'd expect to happen to Carnegie's daughter. She can't get money. That's right.

Yeah. No, it's hard. Tracks for sure. Yeah. She also trains her maids and servants to help when a loan officer would show up to the house, Cassie would invite them in to sit down and discuss and then they'd be interrupted. The interruptions would begin, quote, every few minutes after a maid would come in saying that Madame was wanted on the telephone or that a telegram had just been received.

Just they won't leave me alone. It's just everybody wants a piece. Sorry. Will you excuse me again? I have to take this telegram. It's a singing one. Well, the telegrams are also like, oh, it's so and so about the repayment money sending you.

Oh, thank God. Oh, thank God. You're here for this. Well, that's Kismet, huh? Excuse me one second. Well, it looks like we're getting pretty close on Billy over here. That's good. Anyway.

Another love. So in early 1904, Cassie convinces a millionaire Boston banker, Herbert Newton, to lender $190,800. That's not going to be a problem. Now remember when we said earlier, $100,000 was like $3 million. I'm never talking fucking, it's just this is almost fucking $6 million. Is that all you need? My love. I could give you more.

So she's got this 190,000. He's hesitant at first, but then Newton closed the deal after, quote, the certificate of Ira Reynolds, Treasury and Secretary of the Wade Bank Company of Cleveland, had set to hold securities blowing into Ms. Chadwick to the value of $5 million. So what does that mean? It means that someone, there's someone else involved who is saying that they've got enough, she's got enough to back it. Right.

Right. Again, she takes a high interest rate. So if you, in order to believe anything back then, another person just had to validate it. You go, oh, we got two. We got two. So that's 100%. We had one, now we got two, 100%.

So then one day Newton notices Cassie has missed her most recent interest payment. Interesting indeed. He asks Cassie and she assures him the payment's going to be made, but he's a little suspicious. So he looks into it and he finds out that she's missed several interest payments. So now he's getting a little worried and he reaches out to his other banker friends and now they're all worried and together they start digging into her financial history. Well, that ought to be interesting. And they discover she's millions in debt.

So Newton goes to her and calls the loan and says, I want to be repaid in full. And she refused. And so Newton starts filing a lawsuit. Now Beckwith, who is the Oberlin bank guy, they're also growing suspicious at that bank and banker is in Elriah, report Cassie was seeking small loans right after Beckwith approved her loan from the Oberlin branch. So everyone's starting to now talk to each other. Let's just ask, has anyone seen her in the same room with this money before?

Like, has anyone ever seen her with money? Let's start there. Has anyone ever actually seen her with money? So these guys who approved the small loans had approved them because, quote, the bonus she gave was of such proportions that it made an excellent investment for an individual or bank. Yeah. In imagine time.

Like, it's, of course, it's great. Yeah. Of course. I mean, you may as well be falling in love with a girl in Canada. Right. I mean, they're literally, they're literally just clearly doing something insane because someone's like, look, if you give me a hundred grand, I'll give you 10 grand. Well, that's a good amount of, I'll do anything.

My brain is fried. So the banks that gave her the small loans, they have 10,000 of promissory notes. Oberlin College, a college had lent her $75,000 to Cassie with a $5,000 bonus. She said she was going to give us a bunch of gloves. Within weeks of Newton's lawsuit, an investigation team found Cassie had deposited $28 million, which is $867 million today. I mean, almost a billionaire. $28 million worth of promissory notes all signed by Carnegie and banks across Ohio.

Well, you know, David, it might be time for someone to go talk to Andrew fucking Carnegie. When the public finds out, people start pulling their money out of the banks. Okay. And everyone's yanking all their fucking savings. Any bank that loaned her money, went back with hears in November 1904, he and other bank directors, they go and they confront, they confront Cassie and they demand repayment, but Cassie's like, no, she insists she would settle the debts another time. Now a newspaper headline comes out that reads, quote, Miss Chadwick declares she will pay

all. So everyone's just like, please let this be true. She's got the money. Right. Please. Please. Please God, say you have something. Beck was bank has loaned her so much money that it collapses immediately.

I mean, you deserve to, this is why, this is why we shouldn't save banks. Just like, you know what, you fuck off. However, as the historically podcast said, these companies should get death penalties. If there's a death penalty for a person and they are, and they are considered people, then they should get the fucking death penalty. Wells Fargo should be dead. They should be dead. Why can't, why, yes, with Citizens United, does that not now?

I mean, that seems like it's a ballot nationalize them and keep them if you want or liquidate them. It doesn't fucking matter. Wells Fargo is the Jason from Friday the 13th of banks. It's like, how many fucking times do you have to just go to this campsite? Jesus Christ, find another place. So his bank collapses, investors, bankers, and many account holders lose everything. But Cassie said she was innocent and she promised her debts would be paid.

Oh, good Lord. I don't know what you're so worried about. Sanders on Newsom's lawsuit then discovered that every single promissory note was a forgery. Wow. Wait a minute, but she went into that house for 30 minutes. So well, that's a cosine. Jim, I'd like to paint out that this is really nice paper. Yeah.

Look, I don't think this one's on us. She brought in paper, nice paper, good forgery, and she said she had it. I mean, what else could we have done? Right. What do you say? Out of our control. That's like, those are like, that's the rule book. We did everything right.

We did everything right. Let's not feel bad about what we did. So when Beckwith was told her securities were worthless, he apparently suffered a quote mental and physical collapse. Despite all the incriminating evidence, no attempt is made to arrest Cassie. Sure. I mean, you need a crime. The press keeps her.

She's still a headline. So she gets on a train and goes to New York. Books are room at the Holland House. And then New Yorkers, here she's there, quote, the Holland House was surrounded by a curious crowd day and night, waiting in the hope of catching a glimpse of the woman who loomed large in the limelight of publicity. Reporters sought her daily, and daily she declared, I will pay all, but the strain toiled on the woman and she was forced to take to bed, dangerously ill, according to her physicians.

Sure. Yeah. Her physicians, like two stuffed teddy bears. She's now lying that she's sick. Oh my God. I'm dying now. I'm dying. I'm on death's door.

Pretty sure I'm dead. Oh, I've crossed over. Just going to walk out here. But I died two minutes ago. I'm just going to go out. No, no, I'm a ghost. You can see me. Well then, you're lucky.

You've got my special powers. Could I borrow some ghost box just to get a ghost omelet? Boo. Can you cash this check? Oh, please, may I mortgage your bed? So while all this is going on, Newton's lawsuit is just getting momentum. They're just finding out more and more stuff. She's on the case uncovered her international jewelry smuggling scheme.

They also made the connection between Cassie and her previous alias, Madame Devere, who had been convicted 13 years before for fraud and forgery, two ex-employees at the Ohio Penitentiary where she served identified her as Cassie. So now she has a warrant out for her arrest. Okay. So finally. Finally. Finally.

Not the forgeries. That. Nope. Yeah. Quote, it was while she was in a state, I mean, you have to wonder then, right? So then they know she's not Cassie Chadwick. Then they think she's somebody else. So then at that point, they're like, oh, well, she's not one of the elite doing this.

She's a poor. Yeah. She's a criminal. Yeah. Quote, it was while she was in a state of nervousness bordering upon a collapse that the arrest was made. The officers invaded her luxurious chamber and read the warrant as Miss Chadwick propped up by pillows, stared wild-eyed straight before her and clutched at the cover lid with

her nervous hands. You must love her though. She loves pillows too. She probably loves pillows. Yeah. I mean, you get it. Well, this is when you know that she's actually a pretty, pretty nice good, good, decent person for sure.

So officers then discovered she was wearing a money belt. So she's in bed. What? What if they money belt on that house $100,000 in cash? She's prepared. A money belt. Then they confiscate the money belt. Her bail is set at 15,000, which she does not have.

She can't get that. I have that on the money belt. Right. But we took the money belt because you owed everybody money. Yes. But if you just take one little clipping from the money belt, then I can go and have my money belt. Right.

I can have your money belt because you took millions. When my father, Andrew Carnegie, hears about this, he's going to be livid as well as the servants, Diane and Bishop. Right. So your dad's named Doug or something. He's not Carnegie. There's no Andrew. How many times must I tell you?

Papa doesn't want people to know about me. Good Lord. Let me guess. Let me guess. You showed up to my father's house talking about me and he acted like he had no clue who I was. Right. Of course not.

That's the pact we have. No. Look. Look. If I can just get, if I can just snip the money belt, then I'll leave. I don't even want it. I don't even want it. Look, I have a ton of money.

Just let me touch the money belt. Huh? No. Let me call my father. He's not your father. There's no, there's no one to call. There's not a person. All right, I didn't want to tell you this, but I'm on a mission from the Prince of Finland.

He sent me here. The Prince of Finland has sent me here. No, I can't. No. No. Listen, listen. I'm CIA. I'm CIA.

I'm CIA. It doesn't exist yet. It just started. Do you know what it is? It's called the Central Intelligence Agency and I'm a part of it. It's a secret branch of the government and we're going to do fact-finding missions on certain citizens and try to, try to just unearth some of the mysteries that happen. And we're like, I like to say, we're the good guys and I'm taking down, and I'm taking

down the Prince of Finland in a pyramid scheme that was started by none other than my fake father, which you now know, Andrew Carnegie. It's not. It's not. Here's what I need. Here's what I need. Yachting clothes in a boat and then you won't see me again. Okay.

Yep. My name is Detective Andrew Rajkin. I'm a man. I'm not who you thought. I'm not even, I'm a man now. So she can't afford bail and then she writes an article the New York Times quote, I am an honest woman, assure my friends and those who believe in me that I would not disappoint the confidence they've reposed in me.

I will show them and the whole world that I am an honest woman, that I have never wrongfully obtained money from anyone and then I will repay every dollar of my indebtedness. Only one person visits her in jail and that's Oberlin president Beckwith and we have money. He says, he goes in and he says to her quote, you've ruined me, but I am not so sure yet you are a fraud. Time has come, this guy, look, I'm starting to think that maybe you're full of shit a little bit. So the time has come for you to make known all and Cassie only responded to him quote,

thank you for the call. I shall be pleased to have you visit me again. And she shook his hand and left that I mean, if you're in jail and you're doing the walk away, I should be going where I can see you. I have to go to this corner for a little while now. Really amazing. Excuse me. I'm sorry.

I have a 130. So investors track down her sister Alice who's in San Francisco and Alice briefly talks about her childhood and Cassie's first marriage. But then I think she, I think that they kind of take advantage of her in a way that like she doesn't know maybe the full story or whatever. But then I think she starts to get a hint of it during the interview and she ceases up and stops talking. So she gives a little bit, but not much.

And then she travels and she goes to Cassie in jail. And Cassie acts like she doesn't know who she is. I mean, Jesus Christ, I mean, dealing with some, there is, I think we might have lost this one, David. She might have, she might be too far gone. On March 10th, 1905, Cassie Chadwick was tried in Cleveland for the biggest hoax in American banking history. She denied ever knowing an Andrew Carnegie, even though all of her forged notes were signed

by Andrew Carnegie. She also said she had every intention of paying off her debts of hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah, I just need to get a job. Let me try. Let me try. Beckwith is also charged with embezzlement and being an accessory to crime because he personally approved of her loan requests and A.B. Spear, who was a cashier for the Oberlin Bank was also.

Hi, the name's A.B. Spear and I'm a cashier. So Carnegie's secretary published a statement. This is the first time he has ever said anything about this. Quote, Mr. Carnegie has never met Miss Chadwick to his knowledge and does not know her. He has for a number of years made a practice of never giving his signature to notes of any description. He is certain it is not on these notes. Now a few days later, a reporter asked him about the case and asked if he would press

additional charges. And Carnegie said, quote, why should I go out of my way to prosecute this woman? I'm really very proud of this thing. Why should I mix in a case which has really given me great personal satisfaction? It is not in the least disagreeable to me to have such a tribute paid to my name. This woman has done me no harm. She has only brought before the public a very advantageous thing that my credit is number one.

That's this. I mean, let's never forget the giants of capital in capitalism are fucking psychopaths. I mean, this is this is so Trump. They don't give a shit. Yeah. Become a man as rich as Carnegie or Musk or any of these people. You have to be a psychopath. That's how you get it done.

Yeah. That's how you get it done. Yeah. I mean, but that is like, what a great take for her to hear them. She's like, thank you, dad. A psychiatric evaluation revealed Cassie had a genius range IQ. And what did the evaluation of Andrew Carnegie come back with? He's a giant prick.

Dr. Alan McClain Hamilton, who was the foremost expert in the study of nervous and mental disease. He's also Alexander Hamilton's grandson. Never heard of him. He does the psychiatric evaluation. Hamilton quote, the decided asymmetry at the left side of her face suggested degeneration. And this ocular weakness gives the eyes a peculiar shift expression, which is quite common in neurotic individuals.

So he's doing frenetics. Yeah. This is phrenology. So this is before they were actually like doing anything. He's like, well, you could have seen this coming. Look at the side of her head. It's a little different. See?

Now that's how we should have seen this coming. If you feel back here, there's no Carnegie load. That's how you know you got a child with Carnegie. And by the way, I should end with letting you know that I have given her $25,000. It's a piece of it invest. It's going to come at the trust me for everybody. I don't know what anyone's worried about. She actually works for the CIA.

He then concludes his report that she was able to pull it off because quote, it is much harder for a man to lie successfully than a woman. And this has a natural psychological explanation. Men can lie and do lie, lie even on a gigantic scale, but the Supreme Liar is always a woman. It is part of her sexual nature and saying this and nervous makeup, which makes women so unaccountable, so fascinating, so terrible and so irresistible, take all the great frauds of history, which depend on sheer intervention and on the fantastic creation of non-existent things.

And they have in nearly every case, been the creation of woman. God, this guy is now seen. Have I not done the Hamilton name justice? Yeah. This is like a stand up fit. Just like, you know, you ever noticed that men do the little cons, men are always doing the little baby cons, you know? But then women, women are capable of the big cons, go back to history.

Yeah, well, no women are like, it's natural to me to take the most advantage of other people. Well, I mean, back in the day, you called me a witch, but now I'm just woman with my essence of nasty, like it's just fucking insane. I'm a good psychiatrist, let me tell you what I found. Women who steal, steal a lot. All men steal, but not too much. Thank you, everybody.

No, I like it. Have we convicted all women in this court? I feel like we have. Yeah. Apparently all women are on trial. The beginning of this trial, it was just the one woman, but it's now all women that we now are deciding on, yes? Yes.

All women must be put down. And that's good that all the men, all the jurists are men. It's just helpful. Yes. Yes. And again, remember, the man is smarter because the man gave her all the money. That's right. Shrewdly.

So all the witnesses who came up said she had some crazy hypnotic abilities. The next day, newspapers headlines read, Lady of the Hypnotic Eye. So now a lot of people believe that she's actually a hypnotist, which helps them understand how she can manipulate so many rich, smart, influential men. As opposed to this being a Theranos, it's the same fucking thing. It's just a woman taking advantage of idiot fucking men. It's Silicon Valley, the woman. But she's found guilty of seven counts of conspiracy against the government and conspiracy

to wreck the national Oberlin bank. She's fined 70,000 and sentenced to 10 years. She had raw banks of $19 million, which would be $600 million today. So she did do some good. What had this such a feat was that the time that at this time, a woman could not independently acquire loans from banks and she got 600 million. It's fucking awesome. Her daughter, her husband and daughter took a trip to England.

I know it must be his daughter. Anyway, they took a trip to England during the trial. Oh yeah, because he had a daughter. So when he returned, her husband was arrested and charged with fraud, even though he had no idea what she'd been doing the whole time. He was released, but he was also still married to Cassie, which made him responsible for the debt. So he lost his house, his inheritance.

He loses everything. Spear pleaded guilty and was sentenced to three years. Beckwith died before the trial, probably from stress. After a very short time in prison, Cassie became very ill and a newspaper reported it was her stomach and it was becoming gradually worse. She's so full of shit that she can't live. Just a year and a half sentence, Cassie had a major nervous breakdown, which caused her to go blind.

I don't buy. I don't buy. I don't either. I don't either. I don't either. Oh, I can't. I can't. What would make prison the easiest if everyone would weigh on me, hand and foot?

Yeah. Yeah. May I rub the keys again? Just I love their feel. Well, she was then bedridden and Cassie Chadwick died on October 10th, 1907, her 50th birthday. A week later, the New York Times headline read, quote, Chadwick funds in banks while in prison, Cassie had been planning for her release. A small bank discovered she had over 300,000 tucked away in a newly opened bank account.

No idea how that happened. Was it the bank of prison? AKA Wells Fargo? Sources. She dared true stories of heroin, scoundrels and renegades by Ed Butts. The Incredible Miss Chadwick, the most notorious woman of her age by John Crosby. There's a bunch of other ones. The Crime and Succulent Empedial, the world's most notorious outlaws, mobsters and crooks

by Patricia McNeigh. And the renegade women of Canada, the wild, outrageous, daring and bold by Marina McElady's Women's Windows in America, 1960, 1920 by Kerry Seagrave. So there's a bunch. There's also articles, the Smithsonian, the High Priestess of Fraud and Finance by Karen Abbott. The Era of Cassie Chadwick's Brilliant Crime, the most audacious woman in history on media by Esther D., Women in History, Cassie L. Chadwick, most infamous Cleveland financial

con artist on Women in History, Ohio. And then tons of newspaper articles, research by Sharon Sajapour. Right. Say who it is again. Say your research. Sharon Sajapour. She's great. She does a lot of the research.

So what's great is that this combines really nicely the abuse of capitalism with sexism. It's very... Oh, yeah. It's a nice... It's like two... Those two trains rain into each other. But absolutely nothing has changed, right, because like we said, Elizabeth Holmes is the same fucking thing.

Just this... And if you go through the Elizabeth Holmes case, the documentary I highly recommend, the book is also fucking awesome, but it's the same thing. It's all old white dudes that she's getting tons of money from because they just want something to be true. And because they don't believe a woman could take them like this. Yeah. And she just has...I mean, you could argue that she does have like a hypnotic air too,

because she was very like... I mean, yeah, I don't... You have to obviously be out of your fucking mind to lie on a level like this and like get yourself into this position. But you have to obviously be completely out of your mind, but it's just... In this system, it works. If you're out of your mind for money, then it can work, because we're so money obsessed that people, if they're like, oh, I can actually get something out of this as crazy as it sounds,

you know, they go with it because we have too many fucking rich people. Yeah. Yeah, it's really crazy. It's really fucking crazy. It's amazing. And then look, this is a repeating pattern. This is a repeating pattern of which banks have all the money and they control so many people's lives and they do the dumbest fucking shit.

I mean... And the illegal shit. The housing crisis is the same fucking thing. Dumbasses with all the money doing dumb fucking shit and then blowing it up for all the poor fucking people. But I will say the difference there is so many of those bankers went to jail. So that's the difference. That's right.

Now you make a... So many of them. No. Elizabeth Holmes is going to go to jail. The bankers are not. Yeah. No. The people who fucked us are not, but Elizabeth Holmes will go to jail.

Yeah. Like if you're a rich person that fucks over other rich people, you go to jail. If you're a rich person who fucks over all the poor, nobody gives a shit. Yeah. Exactly. Because she did it within the system. That's why. That's right.

Yeah. All right. Fucking crazy. Well... Good times. Good times. Great, great, great vibe and everything in the world and all right. Whoo.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I want a money belt. I have a money belt now, everyone, just now when I'm walking around, I have a money belt on. Okay. Okay.

I got to jump. We sign cats. Oh, we're still talking. Oh, yeah. That's the end of the podcast. And now let's do the tech talk. Bye.