The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 449 - Wallace Hume Carothers

Episode Date: September 30, 2020

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine Wallace Hume CarothersSourcesTour DatesRedbubble Merch

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Alright. Yeah! Yeah! Okay. Stop. I want people to know what our conversations are like before we start the podcast. Well, they're better than that. That's not how they go.

Girl listening to the dollop on the All Things Comedy Network is a bilingual American History podcast for each week. I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American History to a guy. Gareth Reynolds who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. I'm your friend. He used to say that. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. You must be happy to be recording a dollop. You've only had to write three, seven days.

Yeah, it's been a rough week. I just want to say that. Why? Because you had to write all those? I don't know. It hurts when I laugh. I hurt my ribs. Oh, what? I hurt my ribs. And called it, quote, his jam patch. Jam patch?

I'm the fucking hippo guy. Dave, okay. My name's Gary. My name's Gareth. Wait. Is it for fun? And this is not going to become a tickly podcast. Okay.

This is like an out of five-part coefficient. My room's a place. Now hit him with a puppy. You both present sick arguments. No sleep, no hippo. No sleep, no hippo. Actually, partner. Hi, Gary.

No. Is he dead, my friend? No. No. No. April 27th, 1896, year of our Lord Jesus Christ. Okay. Who died for you.

Stop. Gareth. Stop it. That's too specific for this. Very specifically. I don't like the idea that he's specific. No, that's too much weight. And I do not want that weight.

Suck it up. That's one of Jesus' famous sayings. Suck it up. Jesus. Remember, everyone. Suck it up. Quit being pussies. Jesus, get over here.

He came out pretty hard. Yeah. When he came out from the rock three days later and he was like stubbly and surly. Y'all don't even know anymore. Wallace Hume Carruthers was born in Burlington, Iowa. Okay. As a young boy, he was very into tools and mechanical devices. That's a dangerous start of the recipe for a dollop.

That's fine. That's just little lines like that, Dave. When we first did this, I would go, oh, okay. He's crafty. He works with his hands. Maybe he's in a workshop. Now I'm like, oh man, this dude is going to cause some trouble. He began experimenting.

He and his friends formed a sort of engineering club with the headquarters and an old barn behind the Carruthers house. Sure. What a great HQ. They wired things. They take something that didn't have, it was battery powered and add wires. They worked with coils. Sure.

In school, he was super into chemistry. Oh, but this is dark. His father, knowing Wallace's interest in invention and exploration, pushed him to go to a local college to learn shorthand and bookkeeping. Right. So his father was like, boy, I see you're real crafty. You're pretty good with electronics. You should write things down on cards.

That should be what you do, boy. No, no, I'm trying to nurture your gift. No, no, I believe in you, son. Now, what's your favorite thing to do? I like to like tinker with electronics and just sort of chemistry stuff. You're going to be a librarian. No, dad, I said I like to. You'll be a librarian.

You'll work with books. All the time that I've spent in the barn. And that'll be your life. I made a robot. Well, bring you a little robot buddy to the library. Maybe it can help you stack the shelves at the return books and organize the pile of ones that are supposed to go out and keep an eye on the late fees, son. Well, you've got a skill set that's perfectly applicable for librarianship.

Yeah, it's perfect. Is there something you wanted to say? No, I'm fine. Good. Don't. Because in a library, you're not going to be able to follow that impulse. Okay. So shhh.

I hate you, dad. Shhh. Think it, boy. Remember how I say, think the things. His father happened to be the vice president of the college that he was going to to learn shorthand and bookkeeping. Okay. The capital city commercial college.

So that's where he goes. Okay. He goes there for, I think a year. He finished in July 1915. And his dad then made a deal with the Presbyterian minister to send Wallace to Tarkio College in Missouri, which was a Presbyterian college. Wow. Great.

Perfect. Yeah, that, like, technology and things like that. That goes great there. So the deal the dad made is that Wallace would go to the college. He would work part-time and that would cover part of his tuition. And then he'd study English. That would be his major. Okay.

Okay. A professor there said Wallace's father, quote, didn't really sense the possibilities of the field to which his son wanted to vote, to devote himself. That seems, that's coming across. It is coming across, isn't it? Yeah. Well, he likes coils and wires and batteries. Chemistry.

Chemistry. And his father's like, come, you can write things down and then you'll go, go to a church. That'll be good for you. Maybe you could come up with an electronic partition window, boy, or a way to put out all the candles faster. Maybe you could make a robot candle putter out there. Author Matthew Herms said, quote, he was a pawn dominated by his father's efforts to curry favor with the Presbyterian churchmen.

Oh, I mean, that's the epitome of pawn. Yeah. So he's obviously very smart. Right away, the other students started calling him prof. His roommate, his roommate is described as pessimistic and Wallace was described as quote, even more bleak. Wow. So the pessimist was like, Jesus Christ, man, chin up.

Dude, lighten up a little bit. You're bumming me out. I'm like against everything and you're kind of depressing me. It's just also done. Still, the two of them would go out and they'd go out to the football field at night where Wallace would sing songs while his roommate played the ukulele for hours. Wow. These two were the negatives.

I don't even know why we're doing this anymore. This song is called Probably Not. Probably not. Mostly unlikely. We're not going to make it our damaged psyche. Do you know how hard it is to play a sad song on a ukulele? Oh, you are asking a lot of your uke. It still sounds kind of tropical.

I don't know what you want me to do. It's a little guitar that sounds like that. Never mind. I don't even need you there. I'll just talk it out. So most of the students at this school were going to become ministers or missionaries. They go to chapel every day. When Wallace's dad came to visit, he discovered Wallace was smoking cigarettes and he threatened

to lower the partial payment he was giving for tuition unless he stopped. Okay. Wow. At this, I really guess I had no clue that cigarettes were all frowned upon at that time because it was just sort of like everybody smoked and nobody knew it was bad. I think it's a religious thing. I can't think of any other reason. Right.

It's got to be, right? Yeah. That's the body. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. I don't know if they yell that's the body. The sacrament.

It's something in that area. That's the sacrament, boy. Right. Good lord. That's lepergrass. A fellow student said of Wallace's father, quote, he appeared to me to be a character right out of a Dickens novel. That's a good thing.

He could have understudied Scrooge. Oh, that's a good, perfect. That's a perfect. That's a great dad. Who is it your dad reminds me of? Oh, yeah. The biggest prick who needs ghosts to be cool. That guy.

That's the guy. That's the guy. Well, it depends which Scrooge you're talking about. If you're talking about pre-ghost Marley Scrooge, then that's right. But if you're talking about Christmas morning, get a, you know, get a hen. That's a nice guy. All right. Yeah, that's fair.

He probably just was walking around like, who's got a hankering for pheasant then? I'm so changed. Wallace couldn't stand to be in a room with his father. This is what the friend's still quoting. Wallace couldn't stand to be in a room with his father. I can understand as Mr. C appeared mean spirited, thin nose, close together, cold, gray eyes. Wow. So he's just like, well, look at him.

He's a fucking monster. But I like that we give him the happy days, Fonzie treatment. Hey, Mr. C. You know, he's like this big douchebag with like one gray, cyclopped eye in the middle of his head, but you're still like, yo, Mr. C, can't you tell your son doesn't love you? Do you think anybody in their 20s has seen happy days or is it like, would be like us watching old black and white shows? Probably not, honestly.

Not even out of curiosity. But I only know, I mean, I only know happy days from, I mean, I know most shows that I know, like that are older from, from Nickelodeon. Yeah, right. Maybe. Like that's just, yeah. That's, that's, while my parents argued, I just watched every episode of Taxi. Yeah.

Yeah. So his roommate graduated, his roommate was two years ahead and his roommate graduated and then the two of them snuck out to celebrate. And that is when Wallace had his very first drink. Here we go. Now you're American. That'll be something he enjoyed very much. Okay, say it.

Okay. A former student, Arthur Pardee, now ran the chemistry department and Wallace fell in love with the tiny basement lab at the school. He finished his chemistry curriculum in his junior year and Pardee left for another job. So the college had Wallace become the chemistry instructor when he was still a senior. Okay. That's quite an interesting move. He's, and I'm also going to be great, I'm going to be grading and teaching myself too.

Well, can you imagine you're in, you're in a class, the guy next to you, you're like, hey man, you want to study, study for the test tomorrow. I'm the teacher. I'm the teacher of the test. Well, then you go to the next class and he's, and he's like teaching it. Like that's literally what it would be like. Yeah. That's like when I told you, I told you one time when I was 11, my mother hired a 12 year

old, the baby sent me and I was like, this is absolutely insane. He taught chem for two years and actually had to delay graduation a year because he was so busy teaching. Okay. So he graduates at 1920 at the age of 24. Now, at this time, American chemists are not really thought much of in America. German chemists dominated. This is before Pfizer.

Oh, okay. That's right. Right. Yeah. Right. I remember reading about that. Yeah. German chemists have dominated everything for a while and American chemists just a huge

drop down. American chemists are ranked by which German professor they got their postdoc under in Europe. Okay. So it's not even, it's not even how good you are. It's like, which German did you study under? Right. Right.

So Americans depend on just German chemicals, aspirin, dot, like everything is a German based, right? But then World War II comes and that's it, breaks on Germany. Suddenly, American chemistry starts rising up, but at this point, when Wallace graduates, which is when it's rising up, he's a guy with no money and he's got a degree from a little nothing college. Right. Thanks, Dad.

Yeah. So he goes to the University of Illinois to try to get a doctorate degree in chemistry. Okay. And the professor in charge of the program, he's like a hot shit guy that they got. So it's a really good program. Hi, I'm Doug Hot Shit. How did you know his name? Oh, did I say it?

Doug Hot Shit. Yeah. Yeah. I said it. Okay. I saw it. Yep. So the university is trying to come up with this stuff to replace all the German stuff

that's no longer on the market. So the university is literally trying to make cash and they have like all of their students getting their master's postgraduate. They're all like just trying to come up with stuff and then the school is selling it and making cash. So this pill, this is a weird pill, but this pill will make you understand what your sister's like. What?

This is a drug. This pill. Uh-huh. This pill, the goal of this pill is to make you understand your sister a little bit better. Just your sister? Well, once we get to clinical trials, we'll be very interested to see if it does anything to the brother. But again, that would be purely a side effect or just a plus.

This pill is intended to understand your sister better. So just the... No other women in just one... Well, they would help you with both of them. But our worry is that it's going to split your understanding. So... But again, that's why we're interested to get into clinical trials because then we can really understand, do you split your understanding but twist your sisters or do you maybe just

want to understand one sister a lot better than the other? So here's one thing. I'm thinking you should get to that after. Right now, we think you should just work on getting the right dye for coats is what we're hoping for. The sister stuff's great. Let's just work on it later. I don't see a...

I guess I don't see a huge connection between the color dye and how... This pill would... Look, maybe this helps. This would be a purple pill. Is that what you're hoping for? Yeah, that actually doesn't... That doesn't help at all. Plus we...

The pill's purple and it's going to give you a level of understanding your sister that you've not had before you took the pill. Maybe I'm not explaining... Right. No, I got it. I just don't... Okay. I don't think anybody needs that.

Or wants it. You would take five in the morning, five at lunch, and then five at night. And then you'd have to wake up in the night and take ten. Okay. Yeah. I just think we should stick to like dyes for the clothing. Sure. Yeah, of course.

Yeah. Why don't we just stick to dye colors? Because who wants to understand their sister, right? Just let them be these complicated beasts that we'll never really understand or empathize with, right? Keep them distant. Make it so that, you know, by the time your sister's 18 years old, you have nothing to talk about.

Is that the goal of this institution? Is that the goal of this country? Because the last time I checked, this was a nation founded upon sisters who are easier to understand. And that is as fundamental in the Constitution as it is your right to free freedom. I think everyone said what they needed to say, and we should probably just end the meeting. I agree. I will go get to work on dyes, and I will come back to you.

Yep. Thank you. So Wallace is the best student in the group. He's very talkative. He's very witty. He's bright. He's quick. Herms, quote, but he would appear at Marvel's laboratory at night and sit off to the side

looking straight ahead, quiet and mute. Did I not mention that the guy who runs this, the lab is named Marvel? His name is Marvel. Okay. So you're in Marvel's lab? Yeah. Is that where the X-Men came from? That's right.

That's what this story is. Oh, thank God. Yeah. Some Marvel stuff for once. Yeah. Oh, God, we've been so starved. Finally. Yeah.

Party was now the chairman of the chem department at University of Dakota, and so he offered Wallace a faculty position. Okay. He took it after he got his master's in chem from Illinois, but he goes to South Dakota. He's not a great teacher. Wallace is not. This is not what he should be doing. What he called him, quote, not brilliant, and neither was he interested in people.

Okay. Well, good. Those are great. That makes for a really good hire. And by this time, Wallace is a heavy drinker. Okay. Great. I was waiting for that to come back.

Yeah. He does research, and he has an article published in the Journal of American Chemical Society, but after a year, he leaves South Dakota, he goes back to Illinois to get his doctorate. While he's on campus one day, an old friend from his hometown ran into him on campus, quote. Okay. I ran into this man with his felt hat all pushed up into a chocolate drop, soiled and dusty clothes in what looked like a week's growth of whiskers on his face.

Wait. What is with this guy? It's a woman. She runs into Wallace. This is her description. And her description is that he had a what? Oh, he had a chocolate drop soiled his hat. That's what I, that was like a shape of a hat.

I think is what she's saying. It looks like a chocolate drop. Yeah. I mean, she actually technically called it a chalk drop. So to make it less confusing, I called it. You helped, but it's still very confusing. A chalk drop hat. Yeah.

Okay. So he's walking around like a little chocolate man and dusty clothes and what looked like the week's growth of whiskers on his face. I never saw. An unemployed cookie. I never saw railroad vagrant look more pathetic. And then I finally recognized Wallace. I spoke to him and Wallace started gasping, opening and closing his mouth.

I thought he was having a heart attack. He kept, he kept gasping and the companion with him supported him. I jabbered on as if I didn't notice. So a couple of things. He could be having some sort of mental snap, but he's, he's drunk. He's shit-faced. Okay. That's what's mine.

He's just, he's my flickered up and he's like, uh, yeah, you've, you've been, uh, and she's just like, yeah. And then the other day I also found a new umbrella, but that's not like my other one. My other one was different. And in her head, she's like, I'm very concerned about this man who's gasping like a tadpole. Yeah. He's probably on like a week bender. Like it's, this is like a, yeah.

Yeah. Right. He's got whiskey stubble. So she, they connected and then he, he got invited to her house for dinner a week later and showed up all cleaned up. Of course you see. Okay. And he's all normal and never says a word about it.

Maybe because he didn't remember it. But yeah. Right. Yeah. He's probably like, why is she inviting me over? Good. That's out of the blue. Isn't it?

So in the lab, he was assigned to study salt co-catalysts and he received the car fellowship, which was a huge award at the university. But he was pretty over all the schooling now. He'd been doing it for a while and he called it a form of slavery. Jesus Christ. Let's relax. Whitey. A bit dramatic.

Also, it's your choice to be in school. So it doesn't really. Yes. Let's, how about this? Let's, let's, let's maybe just put it, let's put a kibosh on comparing things to slavery as a white. Yeah. And that is for the history of time.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh God. Could anything be worse than this? He said the academic requirements were like, quote, all the elements of adventure and enterprise which a nut scur or an afford factory must feel in setting out for work each morning. Good Lord. Well, he's certainly, okay.

He wrote home that the school would give him his doctorate if he made it through the three years and quote, show intelligence slightly above that of the pathologically sub normal. Wow. Okay. So he is, I mean, his pessimistic roommate was right. This man is negative. He's also really broke. He's poor.

He's got no money. He gets into billiards, trying to make a little scratch. He just starts drinking, hang out and drinking coffee in the afternoon. But even with all this, he's still coming to conclusions in the lab and he's doing work that showed his mind was seeing what other more experienced chemistry men were not seeing. Okay. So, all right. So he was made an assistant in the department and he got his PhD and then he stayed another

two years working as an assistant. He and four other men from the department would get together once a week and drink beer and discuss and debate the issues of the day. And one of them said, at this point is when Wallace started carrying cyanide pills in his pocket. Well, we've got a turn. That's it. That's quite a quirk.

That's some character development. That's definitely something you ask about if you're a friend. You check in. Hey, how are your kill pills? They're fine. Don't worry about it. Okay. Still in your pocket?

Yeah. They're still there. I keep them real close. Okay. Just in case, huh? Yep. We just got to have them around. You don't know.

You don't know. Do you know? I don't know. You don't know. No, no. Nope. Keep them close. All right.

Well, good to catch up. Yeah. Is that what this was? Still got four of them? Yeah. I got four. All right. Well, just try and always keep tabs on those, just because, again, they are murder pills.

All right, buddy. Take care. Thank you. Sleeps with your eyes open. So his friends and coworkers, now every day, would start checking on his mood in the morning, hoping he was up and happy instead of down and sad. And then they started to try to make things better for him, trying to fix him, taking him on trips and trying to make him happy.

One took him fishing in Wisconsin, and he caught his first Northern Pike. Look at that. A Northern Pike, buddy. You fucking did it. No. That's a huge fish. That's enormous. Aren't you happy?

Blah. Why don't you take a, take a, hold it up, hold it up next to your head. You know, it's some, the tradition is give her a kiss. So why don't you give her a little, come on, what's the worst that could happen? You feel something? Come on. Come on, guy. Kiss your fish.

Take the pills out of your pocket. Ah, fuck. But he found it harder to go about the same routine each day. He had depression. Depression made it difficult to write, to research, and to experience. Yet through all of this, his reputation is growing, and he's got this mind for chemistry and everyone's starting to recognize him. So Harvard tries to pry him away in 1926.

And he finally took an instructor position making $2,250 a year. For the summer, he went and hung out in Paris with other chemists, and then he went back to Harvard. And while he was at Harvard, DuPont started reaching out to him. Oh, good. Good, good, good. He's now 31 years old. Since 1918, DuPont had been spending the profits it made from being a World War I profiteer

to try to rehabilitate itself as a more diverse, people-friendly chemicals company. Uh-huh, sure. There you go. And Dave, dare we say the second American dream was born? Yes. I mean, DuPont went for being this awesome war profiteer to this wonderful company that has killed and damaged so many people. Well, I also think that it's amazing right now, because the time we live in where it's

just so many lives are being completely fucked with, and these companies keep either saying like, like it's well, it's basically Wells Fargo being like, we also hand out food every other Friday. Yeah, you've, you know, go fuck yourself. Like thank you for the food drive, you fucking prick. But the amount of damage you've done, you know, or it's when the huge companies are like, help, help out people. Help donate some money.

And you say like, you do it, you do it. Yeah. Roundup, I've gotten the roundup thing at the stores, would you like to round up? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've gotten the roundup. By the way, it says a lot that when you say, have you gotten the roundup thing at the stores, I'm thinking chemicals. Roundup's not DuPont, is it? Uh, no, that's, uh, you're out there for Monsanto.

Oh, that's Monsanto, okay. Monsanto, is that what it is? Monsanto, great, great, great company, too. And so in 1918, they start trying to rehabilitate the company, and DuPont starts making rayon, cellophane, and cellulite, like stuff that people will enjoy that they can, it can help their lives. But in 1926, DuPont started to build its own team of research scientists. 18th-gen are elected, had already done this with their own research labs, and they came

up with long-distance voice transmissions and the wire light bulbs, so DuPont's like, we want that kind of thing, right, a little in-house lab place. Sure. DuPont said they were looking for, quote, fundamental research, not just to create new products, but to understand the science behind them. Okay, sure. Which makes sense, because if you understand the science behind it, you can make other stuff, right?

It's a whole, yeah. So organic chemistry was a huge part of it, and after searching for nine months, they thought Wallace was the guy to lead the department. Okay. So at first, Wallace turned DuPont down, so the company offered him 20% more in salary. It'll do it. And he's now worried that he can't, that he just wouldn't be able to adjust to a company after working in academia for so long.

Right. He told them, quote, I suffer from neurotic spells of diminished capacity, which might constitute a much more serious handicap there than here. Well, I think I speak for all of us when I say welcome aboard. You're hired, okay? I go through periods of madness. Let me ask you this. Do you want to do that in a corner office overlooking the river?

All windows? That's the kind of stuff we're looking for here, okay? Well, that's right. DuPont doesn't care. And they keep pursuing him, and in February of 1928, he takes the job. He gets there right away. He's just super into it. He rides his bike through an apple orchard to work every day.

Oh, you see, like that apple orchard, huh? We're planning on ruining that soon. That's exciting, isn't it? We're going to guess it. Yeah. Quote, nobody asks any questions as to how I'm spending my time or what my plans are. Apparently, it is all up to me. Wow.

Yeah. So he's a boss. It's kind of like Google, right? Yeah. He's a boss for the first time. He's like, this is amazing. Do you understand that I'm allowed to tell people to do things on my behalf? So he starts working on polymers.

So financial times, quote, polymers are long chains of large molecules and one of the key building blocks of life. Wood is a polymer, silk is a polymer, protein is a polymer, DNA is a polymer. So Wallace worked on proving polymers were made of large macromolecules held together by normal molecular bonds, and he does this for two years. He was laying the basis for what would become modern polymer science. And then in April 1930, one of his assistants, Arnold Collins, he made something in a tube and then he just left it on a bench for a week.

And then he came back to me and he's like, oh, what's that thing that I left there? And he had made synthetic rubber. How many, there are so many of those. There are so many things where someone just was like, ah, fuck it. And then a week later, we're like, wait a minute, I did it. Like me, I think in order to discover things, you have to quit and just leave it for a while. And then you come back and you're like, it is eating it. Oh, so obviously this is huge about 10 days later, about 10 days later, while he was working

on making bigger molecules, Wallace created a molecular still to draw water off of the synthetic rubber. And this led to him creating what he called a quote, festoon of fibers with high molecular weights, basically a very light, strong material. Okay, rubber. Well, now you're going past rubber, right? Because rubber is heavier. Oh, you've got beyond rubber.

Okay. This is like stringing. Okay, so. Okay. Now he's at this point where European chemists are coming to Tora's lab to see what he's doing. And Wallace has an affair with a married woman. Okay.

So he's killing it on both ends. He's single himself, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, he's single. Yeah, yeah. He's making rubber. He's wearing rubbers. Let's do this.

He got into squash. Squash. Yeah. Got into squash, which he played, quote, violently. Sure. Okay. Seems. So, I mean, I guess kind of picture of, I can picture it.

I can picture it. It's, it's a person. I don't even know what squash is. What is, what happens in squash? It's basically racquetball with just a different kind of like a less bouncy ball. I mean, actually, is this the story of how he invented racquetball? That's what it could be. But it's like, you know, it's also like when you think about it, like, I mean, whenever,

I mean, if you play like racquetball or squash, like it is very, you know, it's a limited court. So in order, if you're going to be violent and crazy, like you need to be like Rex Bex, like, you know, knee-high socks, just like elbow pads on, you know, mouth guard, just running back and forth, like this should have been in. So when he went to parties, he would bring wooden blocks so he could explain molecules to people. Hey, hey, hey, I noticed you brought your blocks again. There's a lot of, hey, there's a lot of girls here tonight, man.

Do you want to just maybe, don't touch my no fuck blocks. No, don't touch my no fuck blocks. The name, the name, I won't touch them, the name. They're molecules. I understand they're molecules, but do you understand this? This is more of a party, you know, we'll have some drinks, like you like a couple of drinks. I have a lot, I've had a lot of drinks. I have more.

I'm going to have more. Okay, great attitude. But so maybe you just, you know, leave, why don't we do this? Why don't we put the blocks in the car? And then if anyone asks about them, we'll go get them. Or I could. I think you invented the world first clock, cock block, my man. Okay.

That's what I think you did. I don't want to be, I don't, there are no fuck blocks. No one fucks me if I have the blocks. All right. Bring the blocks in. We're all in that deal. Okay. They're molecules.

Better. It's closer. Let me introduce you to the girls. Hey ladies. I mean, my buddy wall, meet some, my buddy in his wood. Don't touch my blocks. All right. Hey, someone flip this record.

It's going real good, bud. As always, his mental issues were there. He wrote a friend that he was feeling, quote, feeble, smelly, and cockroach like. Oh my God. Just why I don't know at any rate, I go through at least a dozen violent storms of despair every day. He may have just fully described depression in a way that has not been done before. Will you read that again?

Dirty? I feel feeble, smelly, and cockroach like. Feeble, smelly, and cockroach. I go through at least a dozen violent storms of despair a day. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. He moved into a house.

I'm cockroach-like. That's right. He moved into a house with three other Dupont chemists, and it became nicknamed Whiskey Acres. Oh my Lord. Okay. We're experimenting with some chemicals in the house as well. His roommates were active, but he didn't take part.

Quote, I'm living out in the country now with three other bachelors, and they being socially inclined have all gone out in tall hats and white ties while I, after my ancient custom, sit sullenly at home. Man. Can't put on a top hat and a white tie, too? He could do that and just sit at home. I've done that. Yeah.

I know. Then you just sit in a chair and you just go, now what? At this point, he showed one of his roommates that he had a capsule of cyanide on his watch chain. Oh my God. Jesus Christ. Got the time. Sort of.

With the Great Depression happening, Dupont started pushing him to work on stuff that would make money, and the Depression caused the college's father worked out to close, so his parents came to live with him. Okay. Sure. Wallace was not thrilled. Quote, I not only don't have any affection for my father, but I find it exasperating and sometimes sickening merely to be in his presence.

Well, this ought to help everything. I get that. I get that. Yeah. You get that completely. You know, it's kind of sickening to be in your presence. He ended the affair with a married woman, mostly under pressure from co-workers and his parents and friends, and this is a spite.

So everybody. Everybody, but she was getting a divorce the whole time, so it's like. So that could be a girlfriend. Yeah, but it's at a different time where she's still tactically married, so you're not supposed to, you know, but. It had been the best relationship of his life, and he really started hitting the bottle. His parents moved out. Besides him hating, his father's tension had built because of the affair, so they left

and went back to Des Moines in early 1934. Okay. Now, around this time, DuPont pushed him to look at fibers again, and so he went for it, and he got his assistants all on the job, but this is exactly when his mental health issues overcame him. A co-worker quote, it was rather strange. You would be having a normal conversation back and forth, and then suddenly he would become silent and have a blank look on his face, looking at me and not moving, not saying

a word, no facial expression. The first time it happened, it upset me. I thought he had had a heart attack. Okay. So this guy also doesn't belong. It's a heart attack. Usually if someone just goes kind of comatose staring at me, I think, heart attack. All right.

He's having to pump his chest quick. Get oxygen into it. You can't pause around this guy. Oh my God, another heart attack. Also, I mean, he also, he has been, he definitely was seeing a psychiatrist at the University of Illinois. So for a while he was getting help. Help, right.

I don't know if he is now, but he's clearly has like a legitimate, really bad mental health issues. So over the next three years, Wallace went through a series of mental collapses and recoveries. In the lab, the work continued, and soon they came up with nylon in February 1935. So that stuff that they, that stringy stuff, it leads to nylon. It leads to nylon. Wow. It was obviously super strong by weight.

The nylon project was then taken over by a number chemist, another chemist, and they sent Wallace to a Faraday Society meeting in Cambridge. Okay. So everyone knows what's going on with them. Now they're just sending him places and he comes back after that and he, he starts having an affair with a secretary to pot Helen. When you, when you say that, that, that they sent him, that they were basically sending him away to, to try to make him feel happy, is that what you're saying?

A little bit of that, but also to get him out of the lab situation. I think it's not great to have that there. But then also he, he did feel better when he went outdoor hikes and outdoor walks. So I think they're just trying to shock it. Yeah. Yeah. So, his friends thought his new, his new lady was too young and not worldly enough. So they're like, she's beneath you.

And she's young. You're damn right. She is. Exactly. Right. Yeah. But he's also, he's also right. Yeah.

She's young. I don't understand what the point is. So he's super into her or not, maybe not them, but not as much as his previous girlfriend. So they got married in February, 1936. And a couple months later he had his worst attack. He was hospitalized in Philadelphia for two months. And during this time he sent a letter to a friend and it was in big loopy letters that were one inch high.

He said his treatment was, quote, conversation rambling inconsequential, pointless and sometimes so repetitious and purile as to be the source of laughter, amazement or anger. So two months of that. So it's going well? Yeah. Yeah. No, it's what I meant. It's going really great.

Hold on. I'm going to write bigger letters. No. Two inch letters. Christ. They're back in the truck up. He wrote a letter. Well, clearly they were giving him drugs, right?

I would imagine that's just him hopped up on shit. Or, or, or, I mean, yeah, maybe or you are just like, I don't care, you know, like you're at that point, you know. So when he got out, he took a trip to the Alps to hike. Like I said, outdoor hikes helped him and he returned to Dupont after that. But now he was sort of petrified and worried he would never come up with another good idea. And he was moving back and forth between his house with Helen, a room in his old house in the hospital.

So he just kept sort of, then in, then in January 1937, his sister, Isabelle died of a heart condition and he was devastated. Three months later, Helen tells him she's pregnant. And so on April 28th, 1937, Wallace drove to Philadelphia, checked into a hotel and took the cyanide. Oh no. He was 41. His daughter was born seven months later.

But what he had created was just beginning. Dupont began building a plant to make nylon. He died. He's dead. Okay. Dupont is now making a plant to build nylon and rumors are swirling in America that there's this new, amazing, magical fiber coming. You could put it on your legs.

Dupont stayed quiet until the nylon patent was issued in September 1938. Smirin' it. You're not going to find a lot of big companies shouting from rooftops until they got the patent. In October 1938, 3,000 women were at a seminar called We Enter the World of Tomorrow, which was basically an annual meeting they had where they all discussed the problems of the world. Oh my God. And that's where a Dupont representative showed up and made the announcement about nylon.

Women, listen, I understand you're trying to figure out your place in the world. However, I want to interrupt that with a very important discovery. Do you find that your legs get cold? And that it's just your bare legs? A lot of blank faces. No, we want equality. That's what we're saying, but this is for your legs and butt. That's pretty cool.

Look at that. Runs right up there. Looks a little darker. So that's good. And then your underwear is in there, too, I think. Pretty sure. So any questions? Let's see.

I'm not taking them now. I don't know why I left a pause. Any questions? You know, swallow them was what I was going to say. Okay. Guys, I feel like I really interrupted something here. I didn't mean to kill the momentum, but we just have this stuff here. Look at that.

Are you talking about the rise of Hitler? Well, I think that's applicable to what I'm talking about, too. I'll tell you one thing that Hitler probably wouldn't have risen to the level that he did if Ada had worn a set of these. Very simple, very simple style. And again, I'm not a big history guy, but I would imagine that Adolf Hitler, I believe it was, would have completely changed a lot of his theories and thoughts and stuff if he had just noticed these sweet nylons, right?

Can anyone have these cookies or these just for you girls? They're not for men. These are non-men. What? Okay. Well, I'm going to leave a big stack of these here. Maybe one of you guys could organize them a little better. They seem a little cluttered to me.

And yeah, I'll be outside if anyone has any questions. Okay. Don't clap because you weren't. I would have loved you to, but you haven't. All right. Thank you so much, girls. That women played non-men, or sorry, others. That's better.

Others. Thank you. Excuse me. Excuse me. So this is what he said, quote, a brand new textile fiber was coming on the market. It can be fashioned into filaments as strong as steel, as fine as a spider's web. They broke down that they were going to replace stockings and the 3,000 women there burst into wild applause.

And I don't mean to sound like an idiot, but this is really the reason why is because stockings are just so much more annoying, like they're just heavier fabric. They're made out of silk. They are much more of a pain in the ass. They shrink if you wash them, like it's just all, they tear easily. That's the whole thing. Now what you were describing before is pantyhose. These aren't pantyhose.

These just come up to the top of the thigh. Oh, right. That was my first thought, too. But yeah, that's all they are. So Nyland Stockings were one of the biggest exhibits at the World's Fair in 1939, along with television and electro, the mechanical man. Ah, Dave, all I want to talk about is electro, the electronic man. Okay, I can give you a little bit on electro.

Yeah, me, yes. Electro is made by Westinghouse, seven feet tall, human shape, right? It's got a body and arms and legs. I am your neighbor. I am your neighbor. Could move his arms and legs. I am your neighbor. I could move like your neighbor.

He was able to walk by voice command. Tell me where to walk. I like your neighbor. He could speak 700 words, and he used a record player to do that, so he had a record player inside of him. I'm your neighbor. Let me say more. Hello, it's me, your neighbor, from earlier before.

I am your neighbor, the one from next door. Electro also smoked cigarettes, blew up balloons, and had eyes that flashed red and green. I'm quitting the show. Of course, he could smoke cigarettes. What else? The clergy, you can't smoke cigarettes, but Electro, the electronic robot human, he could smoke cigarettes. All right, so he smokes cigarettes, he's got weird eyes, and he has a record inside his

belly. Honestly, he sounds a little bit like a smoking teletubby. He's... Yeah. I mean, let me pull up a picture. Here we go. This says, Electro, the smoking robot, there he is. Oh, wow.

I mean, that's pretty good. Yeah, it's pretty crazy, right? Yeah, it's huge. For that time period, oh, here. What's going to be great is when the robots eventually take off, like take over, and they're going to reanimate him, and he'll be... Oh, no. What?

This is him, there's a picture of him smoking. I can smoke. How great of a feature is that? I mean, I should probably put this as a picture on the episode, so it's just very confusing. Yeah. What? He's like, I inhale, I'm not a pussy robot. Wow, he really is smoking.

Yeah, he really is. Did they ever make a robot doctor who was like, you must quit Electro? Next year at the World's Fair, Electro's Doctor, his lung capacity isn't what it used to be. Shut up, Doctor. I need one after a hard day of work. I love the invented robot, they're like, what should we have him do? What about smoke, Bob?

Perfect. That's the best answer we're ever going to get, so let's move ahead with that plan. So in March, sample nylon stockings were sold to Dupont employees, and then a small amount to the public in Wilmington where the plant was. So nice of Dupont to sell it to their employees. The ladies went nuts. They sold out in three hours in Wilmington, and on December 5th, 1939, mass production began.

Nylons were put on sale on May 15th, 1940, which was called End Day. Sure. Sure, sure, sure. Yep. It's that important. Well, so many people are talking about it that they stopped calling it Nylon Day and just started calling it End Day. Of course, right, right.

There were $1.15 a pair, which is about $21 today. Wow. In Decatur, Illinois, Nylons were put on sale without warning at Stewart's Dry Goods, quote, the news flew to beauty parlors, business offices, and housewives in rapid succession, and buyers arrived with curlers in their hair and cream on their faces to be among the first to get a pair. Wow. It's so strange.

It's just so strange. Isn't it? Yeah, it's nuts. I mean, you understand why, but it's also, it's just another one of those pockets of things that I've never, I mean, I just never really thought about. Right. We've never had any experience. We've never had any experience.

We've taken them off. That's about it. Yeah. Whoa. The wink was weird. Yeah. Most stores in the US sold out by noon. Pueblo, Colorado, police shut down a department store after they determined the crowd of 700

women was unmanageable. So basically, it was like leg masks. Leg masks? Yeah. I mean, finding masks now, and you're like, they have N95. Yeah, it's, yeah, pretty much. The women had crushed counters and turned over other counters as they tried to get the Nylons. Yeah.

They came through here like a bunch of counter locusts. They hurt clerks as they rushed to buy Nylons. In Houston's McCroy's store, it had to be shut down after 1500 women rushed in causing total mayhem. Yeah. They, they came through here pretty quick. They, uh, they killed two of my stock boys. They killed my cashier.

They took all the Nylons, obviously, and most of the other things. Pretty much the store now is just me, Madog, and this Husk, Husk of a department store. Husk. Yeah. This used to have shelves. All four million pairs of Nylons in the U.S. sold out in two days. Oh, my God. It's crazy that Wallace, it's upsetting because you do wonder if, like, this would have given

it that guy maybe more meaning or purpose or something, you know? I don't know. I don't think that his, I think it was beyond that. I think he had a, it sounds like a chemical genetic predisposition to, to, uh, depression. Yeah. So, but as fast as Nylons had come to America, they vanished because the U.S. entered World War, entered World War II. And the material, which was very, very strong, light material, was now only permitted to

be used in manufacturing of parachutes, tire cords, ropes, aircraft, fuel tanks, shoelaces, mosquito netting, and hammocks. Okay. Wow. Okay. So Nylons, Nylon stockings are gone. Man. Nylon ended up being essential to the war effort, and it has been called the fiber that

won the war. Also at the same time, most, I, uh, Dave, personally, I like to believe that fiber was American grit. Okay. That's fair. I'm going to say that it wasn't the soldiers, and it was just, uh, this, uh, Nylon, actually not on stockings, I think was the, not even the rope or the, nope, not, not cordage or anything or the hammock.

That's right. So also silk is not happening because silk comes from, uh, Asia, uh, mostly Japan is where we got it. So that's out because they don't like us. Right. Yep. So Nylon still wanted the look and the market responded with liquid stockings. Uh, what liquid stockings?

What? So you'd buy it in a bottle and then you would paint on your legs, uh, foundations. God, this is worse. So it's created a worse problem. This is like when my grandmother quit smoking and started chewing nicotine gum and then get addicted to the gum and started smoking again. Yeah. I mean, we've done nothing.

There's no good that's coming out of this. Like, so now, now women are just forced to paint their legs. Well, they are. They're all painting their legs. Some even started using eyeliner to create a seam down the back. So it would look like they were wearing nylons. What a pain. And someone made a device out of bicycle, foot clips, a screwdriver as a handle.

And then they'd put the eyebrow pencil rigged in the middle to apply seams straight down your legs. So, Dave, it sounds like we had a lady MacGyver. Yes, there was definitely a lady MacGyver. Leg makeup pop up bars. Yeah. Started appearing. All right.

Just, just pedal now, pedal. Leg makeup bars popped up in department stores. So you could go to a department store and there's an area where you can get your legs painted. I just, I can't. I can't. I cannot. Nylons also became huge on the black market.

Women were paying up to $20 a pair, which would be about $370 today. Oh my God. Dave, what? Nothing changes. Criminals started breaking into houses to steal nylons. Crazy. What? Criminals.

They were like, we need something to put on our head. So we're going to break in, then get something to put on our head to rob places with. In one hall in Louisiana, 18 pairs were stolen from a home. Well, that person was just showing them off. I mean, you deserve to get robbed if you have 36 nylons laying around. No, that was a rich, that was a richie, so I'm fine with that. After the war ended, it was announced on August 21st, 1945 that nylons would soon be available for purchase again.

Oh my God. They wanted them to be on sale for Christmas. It was announced in movie theaters during the news broadcast up front, and women broke into applause everywhere. What do you have in your stocking? Stockings. The public opinion, quote, that's a newspaper, quote, men do not realize how serious woman kind takes nylons.

A recent questionnaire showed that women are more eager to get them than electric refrigerators, radio sets, and household gadgets. That's a nice slice of the time. Men started to realize exactly how serious woman kind took nylons when 12,000 pairs were put on sale on August 17th, 1945 in San Leandro, California. The supply was from before the war, so this whoever owned this, it was a mill, it was called a mill, whoever owned it had just a bunch that they couldn't sell because the war started, but they held onto them.

So now they put them on sale, and women fucking stormed the place, and police had to be called to restore order. In February 1946, the Wisconsin State Journal wrote an article imploring women to stop being mean to clerks working at stores who were saying there were no nylons. Frustrated nylon hunters drive some tearful sales girls to quit. The scientists who developed nylon for Milady's legs have inadvertently created more ill will between merchant and customer than any single merchandising development since the invention of the bill collector.

All of these women have heard that nylons going back on sale a long time before, they're still not on sale six months later or whatever, and so they're going to stores demanding it, and the clerks are being like, I don't have it, and then they're yelling at the clerks until they cry. The manager of Madison's department store, quote, two of my clerks came up to me the other day and said they were quitting. They couldn't even take more of that kind of talk from customers. I tell you, I knew the average American.

I never knew the average American could be so selfish. And Dave, what's cool is, think about it, we're now 100 times more selfish. I know totally. And that's awesome. Women were caught going behind counters to try to find the nylons they thought stores were hiding. Look, all I want is what I came for. I know it's back here.

Quit lying to me. I can see the sales girls lying. Look into her fibbing little eyes. And then just look, just give me the nylon and I'll get the fuck out of here. I don't know what the big deal is. You have some. I need some. Let's not bullshit anymore.

I will literally bite through your throat if I don't get my nylons. Store operator, store telephone operators were constantly being screamed at by people calling and then telling them they didn't have any nylons. Don't call me the C word. Goodbye. Hello, Madison's. That's right. We do not have any.

No, I will not. My family doesn't very much. Goodbye. Hello, Madison's. Please stop screaming, man. We don't have any nylons. I'm being completely honest with you. If you throw a brick through the window, that will be a police problem.

Thank you. Goodbye. When stores put them on sale, some set up what looked like horse race starting gates to manage the crowd. All right, women, to us, you're equine. Understand? Now, get in your stable, eat your carrots, and when we open your gate, you may rush in like the beast's yaw.

Oh, God. It's just so crazy. While in some places, there were enough nylons to go around, other cities didn't have enough. In Pittsburgh, nylons went on sale on June 12th, 1946. East Liberty Hosey Shop was the only store selling them. And their ad said they had 10,000 pairs for sale for, quote, working girls only. The Pittsburgh press described what happened as a nylon mob, quote. The wearers were survivors of one of the most fantastic lines in history, a swirling, shrieking

mass of women that last night stretched five abroad for more than a mile. The line stretched 16 blocks, and they came from all over Pittsburgh area to get them. Wow. The police estimated there were 40,000 women at the peak. So what are you doing? They have 10,000. What? Well, they've said they have 10,000 and you're in a 40,000 person line.

There's not enough. You got to, like, if you're at that back of the line, you're like, oh, well, whatever, we got here late. The store was only 15 by 30 feet. Okay. So if they're a food truck, I mean, like, I mean, really, like how this story is extremely tiny for 40,000, for a 40,000 person line. They only had six clerks.

Well, they have 10,000 pairs. Over a dozen women fainted and had to be helped. That's if someone in front of you faints, you're like, perfect. Yeah, beautiful. The small store opened up at 4 p.m. and was kept selling until midnight. It was originally supposed to not open until 6, but police got worried and asked them to open early. Yeah.

Hey, we're real sorry. Can you guys open at 4 today? Is that crazy if you'd open a little early for your work day at 4 p.m.? Is that okay with the staff? I love that it's a nighttime hosiery shop. Oh, yeah. No, the hours are complete. Like, it's like, it may as well be like a warlock shop.

What time do you open at 6 p.m.? When do you close? Whenever it's sunny. Yeah. Okay. That's a little weird. Like, who? Well, we got to go in early to work.

Really? Yeah. That's why I'm up early. We're going to open at 4 p.m. What? 4 p.m.? Good lord. That's very early.

Quote, a good old fashioned hair pulling face scratching fight broke out in the line shortly before midnight. The police had to swarm in and restore order. I love that it's a good old fashioned, you know, just like, hey, hey, good old fashioned hair pulling, scratching woman bout. That might have been because some women were trying to slip in closer to the front of the line where they'd get screamed at and attacked. The yelling between women could be heard from blocks away.

Pittsburgh press quote, some of the language used would have shocked a Boston fish peddler. Well, okay. A couple of things. One, to be fair, I don't think you're going to shock anyone in Boston. Two, when you are talking, like, the Pittsburgh crowd potentially a little bit rar than some of your other crowds with the language, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

But I'm sure like the Boston, the anyone, yeah, I mean. Women gathered across the street and taunted the women. And women started. You're not going to, you're not going to get any pantyhose, you're way too far back in the line. Yeah. You're going to need to keep painting your legs, ladies. Yes you are.

Yes you are. The women swore back at the men. One man decided to mess with the women and walked up and announced there were no more nylons, just 30 gauge rayons, and the women went, the women were furious and raging. And the police had to move in and convince them the man had nothing to do with the store. Ladies, ladies, ladies, calm down, calm down. All right. This is Officer Doherty.

Calm down. Okay. That man was just the man who was a dick. They still have pantyhose. The fact that you're waiting in this 40,000 person line still has logic to it. Yeah. He's just a regular dick. He's not a store dick.

He's just the regular dick guy. Hey, I don't know if you guys heard, but those ain't even the police. They work for DuPont and they're just trying to pretend to keep you in line convincing you there's more pantyhose. He's right. That's my boy. He's right. He speaks for DuPont.

As the women waited, rain started pouring down, but they still waited in line. One woman told the reporter, quote, if a man tries to get in this line, we'll kill him. Okay. Sure. I don't think he's going to want to. I mean, what person? What? I mean, who gets at the end of the line like, I just got to get a scarf.

Gosh, I really picked the wrong, picked the wrong day, huh? A 75-year-old woman made it to the front of the line and said, quote, the girls in line will tell you my elbows are as sharp as ever. Mm-hmm. So they were just fucking, I mean, I mean, literally, if you look at the pictures and you can find the pictures online, it's, it's a mass of, of just, it's a massive crowd covering the entire sidewalk of just women. It's crazy.

I mean, there's some men in there, but it's, it's insane. Right. The store closed at midnight and the line was still full of thousands of women stretching blocks. Hey, maybe you should open at like, I don't know, 10? Are you crazy? The women left in tears. There may, there might have been some violence if it hadn't started pouring right when the

store closed. After the crowd dispersed, a cop told their reporter, quote, I hope I never see another woman. What? This, I mean, this man is not fit for duty. I'll tell you what I want to handle again is a woman. Uh, this, uh, I'm out, uh, which, uh, you the Pittsburgh press, I am a gay gentleman. Okay.

And I don't want to see any more women. I only want to see men. All right. I'm not a reporter. I should point that out. And I would like to kiss you. Okay. Here we go.

All right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. That was good. Oh, I have a pair of nylons. I think we each just take a leg.

We put them over our heads. We pretend like it's a robbery and we do that at my house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Great. Yeah. Absolutely. I just don't want the nylons to go to waste. No, no, I understand. I understand. And you say, and you say this is a robbery and then we just take it from there. This is a robbery.

Yeah. No, we'll do it at the house when we get there. Okay. Gotcha. Great. Great. Yep. I can't believe my one fetish came together so quickly.

Hm. That was a big day. I didn't know I had one. So these sort of situations played out in other cities. Windows were broken in D.C., New York, women were fighting in Georgia for whatever reason. Was Dave, was, did they call the National Guard? No, they didn't. But for whatever reason, these were called the mobs and riots.

Oh, right, because men saw women not behaving exactly as they wanted. And then they just said, yeah. They say, right, right. I mean, you know, all the shit dudes have done. And then they see a bunch of women lining up and trying to get nylons. They're like, oh, riot. I told you we can't give them stuff. Look at them.

Now let's go to war over something inconsequential forever. But soon supply caught up with demand and nylon stockings were the standard in women's hosiery up until 1959 when pantyhose arrived. So those are all the way up. That's all the way. Underwear, combo. Garter belts were gone. By the 1980s, pantyhose were going out of style.

And by the 90s, women started going with the natural look. And in 2006, the New York Times said the hosiery industry was, quote, an industry that lost its footing. So can we just for a second, or can I just fathom how long it took? I mean, OK, because initially women were not allowed to wear pants. You had to wear these like insane dress. So the the lengths that had to go through for women to be like, I'll just have my legs. And for us to be like, oh, I guess. Yeah, pretty much.

It was not it was not until the 90s. And I may be a little bit in the 70s, but I think really the 90s that yeah. All right, you can not wear stuff covering your legs. I guess. Yeah. All right. I suppose it's time to see your actual body. A lot of what we know about Wallace Crowther's work is around only because two women in

the DuPont archives ignored instructions to destroy his documents in the 1960s. Wow. I assume they wanted to do because of his mental health issues. There have been, you know, everyone's got tons of ideas of why everyone. Every time someone's depressed or whatever, they always want to come up with the real. This happened. And the blame it on the, the, the affair he had or they worked him too hard at DuPont or, but he was obviously depressed since he was a kid.

And sometimes it's a chemical thing that you're born with. It's passed down from generation to generation. And, you know, it's, it's just a thing. And when you, when you want to assign it to something and you don't know the situation, you're just a fucking asshole. Like we don't know. It sounds like it was a condition. This guy would have been greatly helped by the drugs that we have now.

I always find that someone who's experiencing depression wants to hear your way to solve it. That's right. Always. Have you, have you, have you thought about going outside and just looking at birds? Yeah. Yeah. Why don't you get married? So his daughter, Jane, who was born after he died and his mother, his mother did not tell her anything

really about him. She found that stuff through friends. And, but she had depression growing up and for a long time and she's better now due to medication. But, you know, that would, the thing I would like to say about this is, you know, if you're depressed, there's help and even though things seem dark, it's always better to try to get that help. I know a lot of people also don't want to take the drugs that are available. But my wife, she's like, hi, just always says, well, if you had a broken arm, would you just let the bone keep sticking out? Yes.

He would want to put on a cast. And so maybe just look at the medicine as a cast. Yeah. To help you heal. With any, with anything mental, there is a resistance to taking drugs and I completely understand, you know. I get why people don't want to do it. But yeah. But also, I mean, this time, like I can't imagine, I mean, it just is a very, very tough time.

Yeah, it's very hard. And I think everybody's experiencing some, for the most part, anyone with like empathy or anything experiencing this. But yeah, I think like, yeah, I mean, I can't imagine the struggle that some people go through. So I think you're very right. You should absolutely try to do something. Make a move in any direction to try to like, shake something loose. The therapist right now is seeing people online. Yeah.

So if you don't want to leave your house, that's something you can do. Also just so crazy. It's just such a crazy story about nylon. Isn't it? Yeah, it's just nuts that like, it's just nuts. It's nuts how we've, we've come to this point. Like when you think about when they first discovered plastic, they were like, oh my God, a revolutionary, you know, material. And now it's like, is there, I mean, it's got to be top five worst discoveries in our world.

I mean, you know. Oh, for sure. All right. All right. Take care, asshole. You fuck off. Son of a bitch.