The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 487 - Curtis Turner

Episode Date: June 29, 2021

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine racer Curtis TurnerSourcesTour DatesRedbubble Merch

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bi... whoa. Biosphere. Biosphere American History podcast for each week. I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to my friend. Gareth Reynolds who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. Biosphere. Huh? Yeah, no I get it. Sometimes you come up with something magic. Every now and then. Magic. April 12th 1924. Yes that's right baby girl. Curtis Turner was born in Floyd, Virginia. His parents were Morton and Minnie. I love the name. What? So they were mice? They were cartoon mice? Yeah he had mice his parents. Wow. There's a cat behind you. Do you see that how they jump? Cat behind you on a windowsill?

That's quite a jump. He impresses me sometimes with what he could actually do. Minnie was very strict. She's church-going. Morton owned a sawmill and was one of the biggest moonshine runners in the county. Now when you come home you better bring me lots of moonshine. I'll try darling. As long as I'm not covered it's on the sand. Morton. Minnie. I think you just invented a sitcom. I think you did. Or they did. Morton and Minnie. Like if you meet someone that you have that level of alliteration in common with that you do sound like you are animated mice, you don't pursue it. It's like finding out someone's a cousin. You just

go I can't. It is what it is. We can't do it. So Morton made the moonshine. He sold it. He transported it. Morton's moonshine. That's right. You know it's me. Would you see the piece of cheese on the bottle of shine? Check the label. Look for the cheese. Morton. Morton said he realized Curtis would someday be a great driver when he was eight because whenever there was a car in front of them on the road Curtis would say quote pass him daddy pass him. Yeah and that is certainly a good indication that your son will be good at driving. That's for sure. That's always been a sign. Not the kind of guy who shows a handgun

while driving when he gets into a road rage argument on the freeway with someone. He'll be good at driving because he expresses aggression. I have faith in his ability. That's like your dad. I think he's gonna be a good driver. When he was nine. And then you hit a guy off of his motorcycle. That's right. I saw that. I saw you the first time I heard about that you told it on stage and I was like what? I knew you for a couple years and I was like what is he serious? We were driving in the car. There was a motorcycle in front of us and Finn goes wait didn't you knock a guy out of his motorcycle once on the highway and I was

like he was punching me. He was like something you hit him. I'm like yeah I laid him out. The greatest the greatest answer is he was punching me. So your father got himself involved in one of those normal situations. So when Curtis was nine Morton was arrested for running moonshine and then from that Curtis's lesson that he took away was that as far as moonshine running goes you should never get caught. Yep that's right that is that's pretty much so we went to the Goodfellas School of Lessons. That's right. Yeah the problem is that you left your fingerprints but some people said that it was a sin. No no the problem was

you got sloppy and caught. Don't get caught. You commit your crimes. You get it out. The first rule of Shine Club. So Curtis learns to drive at ten. Okay that's not okay. So how is he gonna get to school? That's my response to you. Okay I would volley back with we need new parents. I don't know what we're gonna do. Well I'll tell you the solution Minnie. I thought you were Minnie. I'm Minnie. No no wait I'm Morton. He should drive himself. We sound the same. We sound the same because we kind of are the same. So as soon as he learned how to drive he made his first moonshine run. Now you're saying at ten years old you mean ten

right? Yeah this is child labor but yeah. So he is driving a car at ten which is crazy and then as soon as he's driving he is running Shine. He's on Shine Run. He's on Shine Run. He makes his first Shine Run. Yeah he's yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. Quote this was the first time I'd ever driven alone. Well they say that it's basically like parental supervision if you have a bottle with a cork in it and three X's on the front. That is basically that's basically a dad. So the car was loaded up with a hundred gallons of liquor. That's a good amount of liquor for a ten year old. I mean it's a lot. A lot is happening. And there was a

mail truck in front of him on the road and he. Get out of the way you ahole. He forgot which side he was supposed to pass on. So he passed on the right and drove into the fence. I would say that's a good read on why you're too young to drive. Which side do I pass on. The one with the ditch or the one with road. I think it's the ditch side. So now Morgan didn't really want. So he just crashed. He crashed his car. His ten year old car with a hundred gallons of moonshine. Yeah I think they you know moonshiners like his dad had a fleet of cars so he probably just was driving one of the cars like. Don't worry son. I'm not mad at you. Yeah so but

Morton after after getting arrested Morton didn't really want Curtis to run moonshine. But Curtis still did. Curtis got arrested or Morton got arrested. No more. Remember Morton got arrested previously. Okay. Oh okay. I thought you meant. He only got a fine but he didn't think it was the right life for him. Right. Curtis. I'm having one of those moments of clarity. I'm starting to think my ten my ten year old shouldn't be running moonshine. Just for legal reasons just for legal reasons. It's not nothing more than the legality. He's just in a park looking in a pond. What's it all about Morty. Curtis drops out of school at

fourteen. He starts working at his dad's sawmill as a water boy at sixteen though he was a regular moonshine rudder making fifty dollars a keg. Okay so that's that's a lot of money for back then like he's I mean we're talking sixteen. Yeah he's at sixteen. So we're talking 1940 so that's a lot of money. Yeah okay so doing really well for 16. By 17 he's making his own moonshine. Now he made so much money that by the time he's 18 he owns three sawmills. Wow. He's also a really really smart businessman. His father had started teaching him about trees when he was fourteen and all the lumber. There's a cypress and that's a

pine. Oh an apple. No that means it's an apple tree. That's just an apple. Look at it. Oh that's just that's that's not from the tree. I brought apples. Oh my god we're in a store. Oh my god there's not a lot of trees in the shop. Oh your old man's losing its son. Most times I walk into a room I don't know why I went in there. Oh my god I'm a mouse. Oh god. So sawmills would cut cut down the trees right and then they would sell it quick but Curtis had a different idea he would have the trees cut down and then he would hold on to the wood until the price rose and it was at its highest and then he'd sell it. So he kind of was like

backwards McRibbing wood. He was he was McRibb or a Shamrock shaking wood. No no I don't believe the Shamrock. No no no sir. Please do not enter the dojo if you're not familiar with the video. I guess I've not. I guess I'm not. No no no no. The Shamrock shake is seasonal. Yeah. Well the rumor is that with the McRib they wait for the meat that they use to drop like whatever horrible pork sauce it is they wait for that to drop real low and then once that once that is at its lowest and it bottoms out then they buy all that you know disgusting sludge and then they start making the McRibbs so that's the rumor. That's that's the

rumor mill you're talking sawmill so but I'm just saying that's so he waits for the market to be the most accommodating as does Mickey D's. That's barely pig. I'm loving it. Tyria. I poop again. Well that was a terrible story that you told. Little little reverse dollop inside. So other sawmill owners didn't understand how he was doing this because he was paying his workers and not selling the wood but that's because every night he was making moonshine runs and he could afford to. Right. So he's right. Yeah. So he's got that night he's night he's night timing as a shiner. That's right. Night. Moonlighting.

He's moonshine lighting. Yes. So there was this weird unwritten rule back then if a driver didn't get caught while on the road he was good like so as soon as he was done and out of his car they were like okay you're free. I can't do any. He got out of the car. What are we going to do. We can't do anything. It's his run is over. There's nothing we could do anymore. Let him look. He's not in the car. I don't know what to tell you. Can you imagine police having that level of like respect for like that fine of a line. Yeah. It's like now they would just like I got a foot on the road. Oh man. He's on goal. He's on goal. We can't

tag him. He's on goal. He made it. He crossed the line. It's so weird. So he was friends with a lot of cops and he would talk to him a lot like yeah it was just like yeah you're on that side. I'm on this side. No big deal. Right. When World War II came he was drafted and he got stationed at Norfolk Navy Base. So he used that to his vantage. First he stole tires from the base which he took to his friends. Running Moon shine up in the hills. So that but so to just be clear this is someone who any situation he's finding himself in he does look for the criminality to exploit or he's just a

capitalist trying to make money. Yeah. Yes. Right. Sure. He is. But you know the laws are the laws. That's right. So Moon shiners needed sugar and sugar during the war was being rationed. So through the guys in the mess hall he you know came up with this little plan and they would save sugar and so he would start taking loads of sugar up into the mountains so the Moon shiners could make their moon. Got an eight. I got an eight ball of granulated. I got an eight ball of granulated right now. This is pure stuff. This shit's this shit's gonna this. I mean taste it. It tastes like cane. This tastes like cane sugar. Stick a finger

in there. Take a gummer. Holy shit. That is so sweet. That is so sweet. It really burns my nostrils. You weren't supposed to snort it. Nobody suggests that you snort it. Oh fuck. My mouth is so it's what is that sweet taste. It feels like yeah it feels like God's like tickling your gums right. Yeah it's like what I it's kind of like when I put syrup on my mouth it's got that same sort of when I just chug a bottle of syrup it's got that this is the fucking good shit. What kind of sugar is like scissors. It's look like I said it's granulated but I'm not gonna. It seems like it's pure. It's pure. It seems like it's navy. It's pure.

It's not cut. It's not cut. There's no baking soda cut into this one. Fuck. Tight. So that's why it's blue. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So he got he got discharged. He was still doing. It's called baking bad. He was still doing his sugar runs but like a couple weeks after he got discharged he had to dry. I guess he didn't have his whatever his past anymore so it was hard again and out but he some guards saw him you know leaving at night as he drove off with a sugar load and they shot at him three bullets lodged in the gas tank another in the back of the driver's seat because he was because they knew he was

stealing or because they thought he was like trespass. I think I could have been either one like he probably wasn't supposed to be on the base at that time right but they saw his license plate a cop was waiting for him when he got back home and he got arrested. Damn it. He got out of the car again. He got out. All right. Have a good night son. We didn't know you're going to get out of the car so fast. It was. Yeah. You really turned your motor off. It's puzzling. Anyway we're going to try tomorrow. Have a good night. Goodbye. Good bye. Mr. Good bye. Mr. Mrs. Mouse. The judge fined him a thousand dollars and gave him a two

year suspended sentence. Now his father and lawyer were odd by the speech he gave in front of the judge because he told them he told the judge he stole the sugar to help the people in his county make apple butter which was the only way they were able to survive during the war. Wow. So there so his dad was like so my son is a pathological life. This guy's out of his fucking mind. Your honor I was merely making apple butter for the troops if you must. For the wives for the wives of soldiers I was making apple butter. What would the soldiers do without apple butter. Judge Johnny Johnny you've been shot nine

times. What do you just make sure my wife has an apple amount of apple. But I was just OK. I didn't realize there was going to be a logistical follow up. Well let me fucking answer would you. OK. You need to take some sugar not too much but a good amount. Yeah. And mix mix it with regular butter. Wait. Wait. Hold on. Salted or unsalted butter. Unsalted butter. Jesus Christ. I'm right. I'm right. Can I just remember it. Just can I just remember your blood. It's like a ink. It seems really morbid to ask me that right now. Dip it in dip it in Jesus Christ. Just do some on the side. OK. OK. Dip it in the fresh. The fresh blood is better

for right. OK. Don't hold that. I don't want to talk about it. So I got sugar. I got unsalted. No not start over. Just remember you fucking. OK. What else we got. And then you. Granny laid a sugar and an apple. Granite sugar. Apple and unsalted butter particular kind of apple. Shut your mouth because whatever you. I am a huge fan of the honey of the honey crisp like that. Oh. I'm dying. You stupid asshole. I'm dying. You know. Shut your mouth. I'm not going to talk about which apples. If you use a green. If you use a green. Is that butter going to be have a little a little ting to it. A little. I'll kill you. I'll

kill you. Oh I don't know how that's going to happen right now. It's don't use it ever. Don't use a green. OK. Apple. Fuji. I'm trying to die. No. Fuji fine. Yeah. So what do I do then. Do I bake it. Oh fucks sake. I did. Of course you make just ask them just make her apple butter. I'm dead. I'm dead now for sure. OK. Can you use pants. Shut up. I'm dead. That's fair. That's fair. Well this is going to be good. OK. Fuck I forgot to ask where his wife lives. Oh shit. Son of a bitch. Well he wasn't he had a good run. I'm in heaven watching so mad. The now cops did not have sirens in their cars not the local cops but federal federal agents had sirens and red lights. What did

what did cops do. How did how did cops. They would just they would just you know they would like they were probably just they had like cop paint on the side and they would just chase you. But they wouldn't. It's amazing. Yeah it was it just sounds so crazy. Yeah. So so the federal agents have the siren and the red lights hidden behind their grill. So Curtis one day is like oh I'll put two red lights behind my grill and a siren in my car. So OK so Dave not OK right. So a little while after that he's making a run he goes through a small town in North Carolina and he sees the feds in their car and they're like waiting for moonshiners and he hits his side lights and siren and they just wave him

through. They're like all right buddy go ahead he's one of us. It's not like someone would just do that. Go ahead. As you were. Keep going. Nice to see you officer. So he keeps he keeps using the lights and sirens for a while. It totally works. He's a very good driver. During one run he came to a roadblock and he at full speed spun the car 180 degrees turned around hit the sirens and lights and then the cops who have been who have been chasing him who are a little ways back just let him go past because they thought he was a fed going the other way. It again is an example of firsts. It's just he was the first. He just was like you know what I'll pretend I'm a cop and they were like well nobody

would do that. He met a young girl named Anne. She was 15 I think. Anyway they elope. How old is he. I think he's I think he's 18 now or 19. I don't know. I got a little mixed up with the age around here. So a couple of weeks later he entered his first car race but it doesn't go well. The other cars were all race cars. He's got a moonshine car. It's not the same thing. So he and his friends retool the moonshine car to be a race car and then he races the next week and he wins and he starts entering race after race. He's doing very well. Now there's no organization tracks or each track just does their own thing. It's like a wild west of racing kind of thing. Sure. And he's really into racing and Curtis

and Anne moved to Roanoke Virginia in 1947. There's a few race tracks around. City officials don't like the race tracks but they can't do anything about them because races aren't where decent people go. They're where the the pores go. Right. Right. Racing has been going on for Europe for a long time but it was for rich people. Right. This country's always had a race issue. Well done. That might be your best ever. No. No. That was pretty. I mean I'll take it. Yeah. In Roanoke in Roanoke cops ripped down flyers announcing races to try to keep people away but more and more fans are showing up. Racing is getting more and more popular. I just I'm pining for the time when the police the police had like the same

level of power as you did. Like it was like a game we were playing. But more and more people come racing is like an escape for poor people. They absolutely love it. And right. People really liked Curtis as a guy hanging around other racers. He had a lot of stories. He really liked to party. And Morton was so into Curtis racing because I got him away from moonshining. Right. That he said you can just use my bank account. You can have all my money boy. And so Curtis bought three brand new cars and then Morton was like OK so you can't. Hey. I've always lived within my means. But Curtis is and had married into the Coca Cola family and he got more money from her. But he also remember he has a ton

of money himself. Man but marrying into the Coca Cola family. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Now race tracks at the time pretty crazy. Drivers would bring guns to the track just in case. There was a H guy in each car had a big stick because sometimes they had to beat off angry crowds. Yeah. You're driving pole. Yeah. Of course. We all remember. Yeah. You needed to have a harpoon for people around you. So that's right. Yeah. Case just in case. And by the way we will get back there. Although Dave I mean that would have come in handy for you but instead you chose to just hit the fellas. You can do. There's options. There's options. You can give you can give the tap. Just sort of be like hey by the way. Mine

has four. One driver quote you drive 30 minutes and fight 30 minutes. Wow. Okay. You'd have to fight another driver if you knocked him into the fence. Okay. And you know stuff like that. And then people had their favorites and they would get mad at driver for winning but Curtis not a fighter. He wasn't really a fighting type guy. He'd always try to soothe people over by being nice and then or inviting people to party afterwards and stuff like that. Although a friend said quote the Bowman Gray race crowd was so rabid that sometimes Curtis had to beat his way out of the race car with a tire iron. Wow. A tire iron is like I mean. That's serious business. Yeah. That's like I'm looking to crack skulls on

my way out of here. Wow. How did you how did your cousin die. He was trying to beat up a race car driver and then he was bludgeoned with it. He went to a race. He went to a race. Oh yeah. Just say what he went to a race. He went to a race. He went to a race. He went to a race. But Curtis is a very good racer in the summer of forty seven. He won five straight races. Car owners started looking for drivers in business to start looking for drivers and they started coming to Curtis. So he kind of stopped you know putting together his own cars and and then around this time he started driving other people's cars. Right. Okay. So he's made it. Well yeah I guess so. So in the fall of forty seven he's selling

tickets like people. He's a draw. He's right. Now he perfected the dirt car power slide. So sure. I guess if you've seen like the Fast and Furious or something like there was a whole Fast and Furious about sliding but it's like that thing that thing you go into turn and you just turn the car sideways and then when you can go on the straightway you just fucking hit it. So he was isn't that the drift. Yeah. I mean I guess you could call it a drift. I don't know. People are basically like oh excuse me but yeah I'm just describing a guy who just read about it. So just calm down. So but basically you've been you've been hurt Dave. I've been hurt. I just don't. So you've been you invent you're inventing you're inventing

your naysayers now. They live they live with you. They live behind you. So but people would be like how did he not crash into the wall. Like no one could believe what he was doing. Right. OK. No one did it like him. So people can believe what they're seeing. He that just increases his you know celebrity and no to right. Right. They start putting him on posters to sell to sell races and stuff. You know he's a big draw. So right now this guy named Bill France and he was a driver and he saw all this and he was like someone should organize stock car racing and get it all under one rules and all that. So every track is doing what they wanted. Some promoters would just take off with the purse money. Just you know

get over there. Oh why not. Why wouldn't you. Yeah. Again I mean well it doesn't sound like the cops would do much. They'd be like he put it in his pocket. We're legally not allowed to search his pockets. What are you going to do. He made a great it was a great move. He's a very smart criminal. Put the money back. You're legally allowed to arrest us now. So go ahead. It's fair is fair. Fair is fair. I'm a cop. I'm in my car. You're on the ground. You're walking around. You can arrest me. You made that. We did because it's Tuesday. You can arrest me. Rules are rules and we respect the rules. Norms. So one driver quote you might win a race and all you'd get is a bottle of wine and a damn ham meat. A damn ham. I'll

tell you. Yeah. Like the bottle of wine to me I go OK. But then like a damn ham like I can only imagine. That's probably just like you know snout cut. I'm you want some slabs of snout. Although I might if they if someone's selling in a store. Damn ham meat. I might buy it. You would. Yeah. Yeah. So. So Bill France lived in Daytona. It's the opposite of kosher. This meat has been damned specifically cursed and damned. So France lived in Daytona Beach. Oh I actually read it. The Daytona races in Florida before there was a track they would do it on sand. But sometimes if they missed a corner they would go into the water. Sure. It's the right switch. Sure. Fine. Oh and he tries to unfortunately he's been caught

in the undertow and he is about 30 meters outside. Now the car is going under. That'll be the last we see of him. We've had about six drivers. We got a shark. We got a shark coming to two sharks are fighting over the body right now. You could see they are tearing it in half like a ribbon at a ribbon cutting ceremony. He is just sliced. And I'll tell you John I didn't actually know how much blood was inside of a human body. This is something to marvel at. I mean it almost looks like the sea is so red Moses should be parting it to lead the Jews. Anyway we're still watching here as this man's brain is just devoured by what looks like to me like a family of sharks now. And we got another car in the

ocean. That's another car now in the ocean that is not going to be sharks are having a field day. I'm wondering at some point if they're going to tap out because they are just stuffed and full. I mean good Lord. They are like feta cheese inside of olives right now. They are just swimming. Oh man you know looking at that body out there I just really could go for some ham meat right now. Well that's interesting that you bring that up because this week we are sponsored by Damned Ham Meat. Hello. Damned Ham Meat is a beautiful combination of anus and snout meat put into one melt. And then it's made to form some fake ribs sold at McDonald's. They're selling Damned Ham Meat. It's under the McRib menu.

Damned Ham Meat. It's mostly anus but it's partially snout ham meat. I think part of me died when you brought up anus meat. You know not a lot of people. You're still talking to me here Dave. And not a lot of people know that anus meat is actually a good fake calamari. A lot of times if I have people over the place I just take out the inner ring and then just make it look like that little circle. Deep fried. People are none the wiser. Believe it or not people really load that thing up with marinara. And we got another car in the ocean. So Bill Frantz he starts promoting and then he surveys the land. He convinces all the what heavy hitters all the owners promoters blah blah blah. He convinces them that racing

needs a governing body. And essentially NASCAR is born. Oh wow okay. And they held 51 races in their first year. It grows and grows. It's almost one a week Dave. Yeah oh my god look at you. I did that with no paper. I always forget that they call you the math king. Human calculator. That's what the denim jacket's bedazzled with. So Curtis and Bill Frantz are friends and he would stay at Curtis's house when he's in town. Curtis becomes a main attraction for NASCAR. In 1949 with Curtis as the big draw 22,000 people came to the first only stock car race and no one expected that many people. It was just like holy shit. Now the winning car had illegal rear springs and was disqualified. So that's like an example

of like now they're now they're enforcing rules right. And the winner had he had a moonshine set up kind of and he won and then they're like no you can't do that. He ended up suing for 10,000. So springs spring. I can't help but picture like Inspector Gadget. So talk me back down to earth. What does that mean the springs. I have no idea. I just it just it just said he had rear. I think when you read when you read a book about about car racing they think that you know when when they say there's illegal rear springs and I like oh yeah of course I know what that means. This guy's interested in cars. I'm not actually I have a podcast please. All right. Well then why don't we just for the

shits and gigs. We'll just picture the car being able to bounce over other cars. No that's correct. That's what I would think. Yeah boy. And he is just he's kangarooing over three different vehicles at a time. Talk about leapfrogging. I think that's illegal. It should be illegal but you know it's not illegal as damn hand made. Damn hand made is one of the most delicious combinations between snout and anus. They've invented a term called snanus. That's right it can pass as calamari or it could be a McRib or it could just be some fine slices in a weird salad. Damn hand made. Get involved. So the owner sues for 10,000 and Bill France goes to court and defends himself by arguing that there needed to be enforceable rules

and you couldn't just use illegal cars and he wins the case. He wins the case but this means Bill France could now make the rules for NASCAR like it's sort of official. Right. So Anne Anne starts staying home from races with the with the Avenue baby and she's staying home and Curtis is out there on becoming a celebrity. He's incredibly popular with the female fans and he's and he's taking advantage of that situation. Sure. Okay. So a good so a good a good decision to lock down. Yeah. You have a child for sure. He's not always popular with other racers. Curtis was very aggressive driver. He would bump the other drivers in one race. He and another car smashed through a fence and after the race the other

driver hit Curtis on the head with a tire iron but they wore football helmet so it was okay. I mean there's just it's a very fun visual. It doesn't sound like there's a governing body right now to be honest with you. It sounds like it's still a bit rogue. His biggest his biggest rival was Bobby Myers and Curtis is like super popular like the most popular racer. Myers is way less and they always tried to they always tried to knock each other off the track and Myers had a brother who race so sometimes Curtis would be going in his two cars at once trying to knock him off the track. Right. One driver described the Myers what they did once before race quote the Myers brothers got up on the

hood of their cars and pulled out knives and saying will whip everybody's ass in this place. First of all the song it's not it's lyrically it's an it's an undersell but it just I mean at what point are there rules being made. Are they coming. Are the rules coming. I think there should be one by the way no threatening with knives. No pre race knife things. I'm not sure if this was at official NASCAR races it might have been but it could have also been on the other race tracks but anyway this is the shit that's going on. OK. Another time after Myers won Curtis just T boned him with his car when he was. But everyone said it was super hard to stay mad at Curtis because he always threw parties and made sure everyone

had a good time. He would like throw a party like hey we went out there racing but now we're not the track like almost what like what happened with the cops right. He would be like hey now we're now we're back off the let's just have a good time and it almost everybody was like great but OK I get it. It just again speaks to this country's love of alcohol like it really it just is remarkable how much will go away with some booze. Yeah everything. I mean it's just like it just assuages so much. It does. And but then later on then it comes back and then you're mad and you kill each other. You know when I first visited LA I went to the saddle ranch bar and because I'm cool and that's where they

have a like a fake bull you can ride and I was with my buddies Evan and Jimmy and I got on there and I didn't really know how to ride it so I was basically putting all the weight on my hand. Long story short I fell off the bull immediately broke a bone in my hand and my hand ballooned up and you sign a thing before you go on there that's like hey I won't sue you but I don't. And so I'd sign that but still the owner had come over and he was just looking at the size of my like Michelin hand and he was just like how about a round of lemon drops and I was like that'd be pretty cool and like literally it was like I mean the equivalent of like four dollars worth of actual alcohol and I was like yeah it's

a cool guy. Oh my god. Yeah my hand is broken. So you know it's just like it's just it means it's a big gesture to us. We really take it quite seriously. What an honor to have a lemon drop sir. I'll have to take it with my right hand for my left is broken. That's amazing. But the Myers would not be the kind of racers that would come to the party and have a good time and let bygones be bygones. They were always mad and they always wanted to take Curtis out. Okay. Like I said he didn't own his own cars now so he was like yeah whatever I'll just smash it and move on. Like he was finally destroying someone. He's like Hendricks at the end of his set. That's right. In the 50s he jumped big into the timber business.

He had those back springs. Now he had an amazing ability to look at land and estimate how much lumber he could get out of it. He's like rain man with toothpicks but with trees. Yes. Yes. And he learned how to fly and so he bought a plane and while most most timber guys would hire a surveyor who would go who literally on the ground survey at all and go tree by almost tree by tree and figure it out. Curtis would just fly over the land estimate how much wood he could get and he'd always be right. Like he was probably really good at that. Guess how many jelly beans are in a jar. Oh my god. He'd nail it every time. No give me. No give me. Did you want to know reds or or green because I can break it down

by color. When was the last time that you entered one of those. Oh my god. I can't remember when I was a kid. I would say in the last year I've entered one. I'm not kidding. The press started calling him the flying lumberman. What a dumb name. Like you could come up with so many good names for this guy. He's crazy. Yeah. Think of all the things we've heard of him. He can fly a plane and estimate wood costs. Those are not the most. I mean it's good. It's a good skill for business. You know what I mean. But it's like this dude's T boning people. You know he's a bootlegger. He's cheating on his wife. He would sometimes play pranks if he had another business and businessman in the plane with him. He'd shut

off his engine and say quote. That's funny. Something must have happened. And he'd let the guy freak out for a while before he started to play an asshole. What. And that would like honestly. That's not cool with me. That is where I mean that's like oh I would lose my mind. Yeah he did all kinds of shit in the plane. I took it out but at one point they they I think they wanted to get booze. There was like a group of people in the plane and they wanted to get booze. And so they literally landed in the guy's town like on the street in front of the church. And the F.A. took away his license for like a year. And our defense we needed beer. That is amazing. What

an amazing way to treat like treating the cities like they're your gas station on the sky freeway. Let's just pull off here. There's a Wendy's. So he he his success right. He's very successful in the timber business very successful and he's also a successful racer. So he starts meeting politicians. He's making connections he's meeting big business men. He's he's a legit dude. And between the timber business and racing hardly ever home. And again women are all over right. So he's definitely so and so Anne's like this is cool. This is really cool. And she knows this and in 1953 she moves out but then she comes back. I mean basically over the years she kept moving in and out

and in and out and in and out. It was this became a constant thing. They'd fight. He'd be sleeping with women. She'd find out. It was just Dave you can just explain it to me easier by saying Gareth it's your parents Mary. So just do that. So in 1956 he just blew away the record for most wins. He won twenty two out of forty seven races. Wow. NASCAR had its first vote for most popular driver and no one else came even close. And he would win that over and over. And in 1957 people started calling Curtis the Babe Ruth of stock car racing. Wow. Now Bill because you could eat so many hot dogs. That's yes. How did you know that. I Dave again. I'm very the reason why I have the

role I do on the show is because of the perceptive nature of my it's my ability to process factual information in real time. That's correct. So at least that's what the comments Bill France built the Daytona Speedway and it opened in nineteen fifty nine. Now if you're from another country people from other countries like that's like one of the palaces of racing right. Yeah like I would say I'm not. Yeah. There's not many bigger. Yeah. That same year Curtis decided he was going to build a Speedway in Charlotte. OK. But another promoter Burton Bruton Bruton Smith was also planning to build a Speedway Bruton Smith. Yes. That's right in Charlotte. And on April twenty second they both held press conferences to announce their

new Speedways in Charlotte. And the press asked naturally they're like are you guys going to work together. And they both said no. Curtis said quote. And regarding oh and regardless of what he does we plan to go ahead with our own plans. If he builds to it looks as if Charlotte will have two race tracks but then he followed that up a couple of minutes later with quote look there's not room for two tracks here. Wow. So he's really not prepared to be like answering questions like it is what it is. We could live around each other. Well I mean look honestly there's not enough room so this needs to end. Oh my God. It's just so crazy. So so obviously this is an issue right. A local reporter starts to think

Smith didn't actually have much of the deal he was talking about for his race track actually put together and was just trying to get Curtis to merge with him. OK. Right. So the reporter is like this. Quite a business. This seems like a plan to get in with Curtis. Where's your concrete. It's coming. It's it's on its way. And it's not too far away. And and then we're going to lay it and then lay then we'll put a lot. Yeah. Roll it. OK. OK. Pour it. We'll pour it. Uh huh. And then. Yeah. And then a bunch of seats and that's all coming from seats. First of all I just want to you bleach your seats. First of all I just want to talk to Curtis and make sure he knows that he better stay away from my construction.

Which is happening. It's not the way you why would you say it's happening. It is going to occur. Of course. Yeah. There should be no naysaying about whether or not I'll be pouring concrete for a racetrack. OK. That's just weird. It's just a weird thing to say. That's all. It's happening and I'll take anyone to court who says different. Just that simple. So this is what are you going to name it. The big oval. That's it. Because it's going to be. No. No that's not it. The big oval USA greatest track. That's the name of it. And took us a while to come up with that one too. Have you considered. Have you considered naming it. It's happening. Well it's that's it's going to be on the sign for sure. Yep.

Once we get all the concrete in here which is coming talk to the driver the other day real close he says even though that was days ago he met in terms of the distance he had been covering which was great. Yeah. And he's closer than when he started. Yeah. So I'm not going to put up with any more bullshit. OK. So that's just how it is. And it's yeah it's pretty much done. I just got a message. So it's close. Got a message. OK. Yep. Yeah. The great the great oval. That's just what I call it for short. I won't say the rest of the name. That's already the whole signages. I didn't get it the first time. The signage is done. I will. I'd rather not. I wonder you got it the first time. You just want to

just collaborate just for the press. I don't do got your journalism like this. So I'm not going to fall for you got your journalism. Just the great oval. The great oval USA greatest track. That's not what it was before. It's different because there's two signs dummy. You're not you guys don't listen proper. Look it is happening. It has happened. It's done. So Curtis's plan was to fly around the country just meeting people and getting loans to fund his his track. He formed a corporation with other local businessmen. Curtis was the president. The core idea they were going to build a 1.5 million oval called the Charlotte Motor Speedway. They got the green light to issue one million shares at a dollar each. OK. Which totals

a million dollars. I don't want to flex the muscle. I don't want to flex the muscle too much but it is there always for me to take advantage of. He planned to finish construction in five months. OK. Let's see. It took five years to build Daytona. So so it an ambitious bill. That is what you're saying. Just that is particularly like you think about construction now and obviously their construction is super corrupt. But to build something of that size it would take a long time. Now now it's it's the it's the 40s. Right. Yeah. It's the 50s. So like it's going to take longer just because machines aren't as good and all because it's that time. I mean five months is insane. It's insane. It's great. It's a great pitch.

And Smith keeps pressuring him and pressuring and pressuring him. A lot of his a lot of the people in Curtis's camper like stay away from it's not good. But he comes around and Smith talks him into partnering up. Good because I was moments away from the perfectly finished track. But now I will tear it all down and you will not need to see it. And it was happening and it was done. But now we'll just do it together. A separate one. We don't need to use any of the pieces from my other one too. Which was done. Can I look at how far along no no no no no no. I already tore it down. After starting the conversation with you I knew it was over. So now it's done. Can we use the signs you made because I know

you made signs. No. What was the name again. It was called and again there are two signs. So there is a bit of wiggle room as far as the name but it was the great oval USA best track. It's the name of it. I don't remember best being in there before. Well. Hey when would you when was the last time you got facts on this. OK that's fine. That's fine. Yeah so it's just different stuff like that changing. We believe in fluidity as far as the name goes. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. We're not constrained by this must you know system of musts. It's just not how we work. You know it's yeah signs of all. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's how they work. So bingo bingo. So he thinks the recently really bring Smith

in this because Smith said he he's got all this fundraising going on and he's going to bring him but Smith had no fundraising going on. OK great. So but anyway Smith is now in and as far as the stocks X driver and now promoter Humpy Wheeler said Curtis Smith were quote literally selling them out of the trunks of their cars for a dollar each. Dude cars give me such a boner. You know I mean that's really weird. You ever see a car and you just want to get on top of it. That's what you wanted. I'm super comfortable right slip yourself into those spokes. No I don't want to. What's happening right now. Why are we doing this. Look at the tires though. I don't want to look at the I just want to drive the Humpy

Wheeler professional car fucker. I didn't catch your name. Dave Dave. What do you do to cars. Finger him. Oh you're back. There you are. OK. This was great because I was hoping I could just put this up without editing it. So this is fucking awesome. Jesus. Perfect for you. Wait let me finish my Humpy Wheeler character. What do you do to cars. You just drive. I get it. You get you like to be inside. Me too my man. Humpy Wheeler professional car fucker. I didn't catch your. You said Dave. You said Dave was your name. Yeah it's Dave but how are you a pro. How is there. Look I know what you're saying and it's true. I am married but when I play the field all bets are off. My wife's Toyota she gets it

you know how they are. So I like to mess around when I'm on the road or see some other cars. You got your eye on anyone any cars should steer clear of. No all of them. I think you should steer all humps. Humpy Humpy Wheeler's got something he's got to release. Stop. I just need to not be around you at all. So horned up today. Just here in the engines rev it's like the call of a siren. OK I got to go. Let me let me let me know if you got three friends and you guys want a tire bang. OK. Yeah I'm going to do that to meet you. Humpy Wheeler is the name. I heard it. Getting my wee wee into cars. The game. OK. You're on the track. Bye now. Bye. We're going the same way. That's awesome. So let's get to

know each other. I'm going the other way. So you want to know how Humpy really got his nickname. How. His father smoked camel cigarettes when he was at the University of Illinois and his friends started calling him Humpy because of the camel's hump. And then when he had a son his dad's friends started calling him Humpy Junior and the name stuck. God damn why are you leaning into it if that's in your family. Have your dad like double down you'd be like no no bad. It's Humpy Junior. It's a little Humpy. It's really crazy. Yeah. So that's cool. So Smith for his part he did not have fundraisers. He started he made commercials and he sent mailers around. We've run into this sort of character before. It's like the person who's

just like they're doing like it's like the secret but it's not the secret because it's all bullshit. Yeah. So he he's trying to push how much money the track will make and get people to buy stocks and the ads aired in other states and he sent mailers across the border which was a violation of the securities and exchange commission regulations. So they're running into trouble. Now a guy named Owen flow was the main construction guy and he started working with his bulldozers and clearing the land and Curtis would fly all over the country to find investors. And then that left Owen back at the track to make all the day to day decisions. So Owen's less a part of and he's like no Smith's got it. He's really

smart. He was really taken by he really believed in Smith. Like everyone around him was like dude get the fuck away from this guy. OK. And then Owen flow one day comes in and says we found rock below the dirt and it's a big layer of rock and it's going to have to be dynamite. So this took the cost of the racetrack up from 18 cents a yard to a dollar a yard. Dave again I don't want to flex the muscle but that's what we'd call a real big increase more than a double increase. So and plus you're definitely adding to time now if you're talking about like we got to go through the earth. We're having trouble with the earth's crust. Yeah. So we're going to need to figure that out. Yeah. Though it's a crazy. It is a crazy

change. Mechanic Smokey Unic quote if they smoke I'm sorry Smokey Unic. I'm a bit of a penisless gentlest chain smoker. You know a lot of people say that I remind him of his dad but it's different reasons. They took my stuff. Unic. Yeah. So smoking in a quote if they'd have searched North Carolina for the worst possible place to build a racetrack that's where they built it. Well that's good. That's good. I mean that's good to hear. It's now going to cost five hundred million more than they expected. Oh my god. Well I mean that's tough. That's that's an increase. That's a lot of money honestly. So they obviously have money issues and now they can't pay. They're having they're falling behind and paying the

construction contractors creditors start threatening to sue. So Curtis is now flying all over the country to raise money to just stay ahead of the debt that's piling up. OK which is good. That's now that's now what we it's a good position to be in. Yeah. It's what you want when you're trying to. Yes. Now it's now. Yes. And now that sweet smell of desperation which always helps when you're trying to coerce people into giving you funds. So showing up like Ray Liot at the end of Goodfell is like 200 bucks. That's all please no more bullshit. We'll take your hands. Just give me the money. So he's making promises to people. He's putting up collateral his own collateral his own properties his own businesses.

You know my wife Anne would be a great thing to throw in the pot. So. Oh go ahead and watch tell me about that. Well we give me five hundred thousand dollars and you can have Anne and my son. It's a whole really I'm not one of these. I don't see the boy. The boys three. Does he play any sports. Is he. Yes. He's really good at all sports. Oh yeah. He's a natural at all. I do. I would like a sporting boy to watch. I do enjoy watching. He's a very sporting job. He's just unbelievable. He he's just taken everything and everything you like he does. Do you have a dog. Any dogs. Yep. Yeah. How many. What's the good number for you. Three. I have three dogs. OK. Let's do this. Great. Perfect. Let's do it. Great.

Hey Jeff. I just I just bought a family. If you could just go ahead and set that up and we'll write. Absolutely. Won't be a problem. Thank you. Yep. Go. And how many dogs. Great. Just carry the five. So it's just so crazy. So he's he's now writing paychecks on a Friday and then spending the whole weekend flying around the country to get money to cover the checks to the deposit in the bank on Monday morning to cover the paychecks. I've had I've worked jobs like that though where the boss has been like and wait till next Thursday. Yeah. Oh yeah. OK. That's not a good sign. So all this desperation and madness is going leads Curtis to come up with new ways to make money. OK. He made a deal to buy three dollars

three sorry three million dollars with the land. But he did it in a way no one has ever done. Two million would be raised through notes bought by the public and then that would be converted to stock. Now neither one of us know what that means. But basically it's a tricky idea. A little slippery do. Sounds like a go find me. Yeah. But he's the first one who ever did that. I guess it's done now. But he's just getting started. One morning he had breakfast with a friend and said quote a few nights ago I was sitting on a rail fence in the mountains of Virginia just thinking and looking at the moon. And I took to wondering if there were any timber up there. And if so how I could get it down.

So he's like Paul Bunyan now. Space would. Yeah. Yeah. How do we get the moon lumber. So basically you know some people think it's made of cheese. I think it's pine. Let's get up there. Yeah. So basically he was talking about how to make money in space and he had been reading about he had been reading about the space. I mean it's a red flag now but like then it's like buddy we're not ready to have your space colony talk like you know I'm just thinking. Well he'd been reading about the space race and thought private companies could get to the moon first. And it turns out companies were looking into launching communication satellites and they needed a way to get him up there

and Curtis decides well he'll be the guy to make the missiles. Is now the time I guess is my question is now the time to be getting involved in private missile launches. He just needs to make money and he knows he can make a lot of money and it's just but it's yeah it's such a it's such a right turn where you're like no well I'm sorry what you're making. Well in order to fund the track we're now going to be shooting satellites into space. It's just it's your one to it's your classic one to but we build raised tracks and we shoot the satellites. He's such a successful businessman that everyone's happy to meet with them because right so the

companies he meets with give advice and support. So the US had given 28 million a dollar contract to a company to make missiles to put satellites and stuff in space. But the US pulled out when it was like the companies like the US like this isn't going to happen. So they pulled out halfway through the contract. So Curtis goes and meets with that company and they all and ever the company is like yeah we can do it. We just need another 17 million. So he goes and meets with NASA. Well it's Dave like most racetracks it's taking a turn and they agree. NASA agrees to rent the Cape Canaveral launch pad to Curtis for a million dollars a launch. So wow Curtis then really Curtis is like now I need to raise 25 million

that's all that's all I need to do. That's it. Yeah I just got to get 25 million and then I kept Cape Canaveral. And then he's having lunch one day and he takes a dollar bill out of his pocket to pay and he looks at it and and then ideas strikes him. Oh no. What about advertising on the dollar bill. Oh my god. Hear me out. Sorry pal the Illuminati's beat you. So it's a great idea. It really is. I say let me give him two home depots and then we can get out of here. So the white border around the bill he's like well that's doing nothing. It's just sitting right there. That's advertising. It's white. That's that's where you put your jingle baby. And he's like would Ford the Ford Motor Company pay five

cents a bill to have a coupon on the edge of the dollars. Like why can't that be a thing. I can't even fully picture what he's talking about anymore. So he calls a friend who's a congressman. And the congressman is like well that would take an act of Congress and also defacing the dollar bill as a misdemeanor. Are there any hurdles is my question. Curtis said quote I'm not talking about defacing the bill. I'm talking about helping the country. You think anybody cares that that little white border. It's a wasted space. You can liquidate the national debt in no time. He has a point. He's take it's kind of funny to me that they're like well the dollar bill is sacred. You're like how is it's money. How is it. Yeah put

coupons on there. It's a fucking dollar bill. Isn't it kind of crazy that now that will hold on. There's limits to our money. What are you talking about. I know. It's well yeah. No it's it's I mean it's the same thing as when like someone in the government is just like I love God. Not like yes but you do these. You're so biblical until it comes to your own existence when you are a corrupted piece of shit. But it's it's it still makes no sense. I'm still like I can't even picture what he's taught like I mean I just can't imagine on money being like how many times have you been sitting in a park thinking you know these damn mosquitoes. You're like this is for off. Yeah it's crazy. So it doesn't it doesn't

happen obviously. Really. He ended up he ended up spending 40,000 on his attempt to make money from space work but nothing came of it. And all this is going on so close. All this is going on while this the Charlotte Speedway fiasco is happening. So he moves his he moves his family to Charlotte but Anna is very depressed being away from all of her family and she moves back to Virginia with the three kids. So they're living separately. When they do see each other they fight a lot. Now tickets. I didn't tell you this. Tickets are being sold to the first race of the Speedway. This is not smart. Not smart. Oh my God. So that creates a lot of pressure to finish on time. Oh that's I mean they're there that's

the firefest racetrack. Smith invites the public to come down to see how construction is going. And then he does it a couple months later. But that's in April and right it's a couple months before and there's no grandstands. There's no garages. No paving has been done. It's pretty obvious to everyone coming to visit things are that it's not you know what we we are not going to be one of your traditional racetracks with garages and stands and cars. That's not the point of this racetrack. This racetrack is a little different. You're not going to see some of the traditional things that you're used to seeing at the racetrack. So just prepare yourself for a completely unique experience when you come and see a

race here which again you'll have to do from standing outside the fence which we don't actually have yet. There's going to be trees in the track and boulders and we really want the natural vibe of earth to see these guys in the elements driving into trees driving through rocks missing big enormous concrete dynamite at holes. Yeah you know it's really fun and we're really excited and so are the drivers who we've yet to employ because there might not even be drivers which is so great. We don't know about the drivers yet that's and also you can just hang out in the trees. That's where it's very natural. That's that's our grandstand. You just get up in a tree. We're mainly selling tree seats. They're treats

and they're tree seats and you mainly sit there and yeah. So again the drivers will be gophers the trees will be seats and the track will be exploded a lot. It's very close to done and we're very excited very excited. It's very avant-garde. It's very avant-garde. We are really embracing the difference. We want people to come here and say that was a unique experience and we think they will. Yeah. Yeah we just need some more gophers. And we have missiles. Anyway enjoy the race. So tickets have been sold advertising done but everyone's like this is not happening. So they go to meet with Bill France and he agrees that NASCAR will move the race date to June 19. So buys him buys him like two and

a half weeks or something. Right. Which is but I mean again I mean that's plenty of time to finish the race track. France already thinks it's crazy to build the track this remember Daytona took him five years planning all the way through finishing. Yeah. So he's got another two and a half weeks though. So that'll probably do it. They have construction going on 24 hours a day. There's every company has three shifts of workers but now no one is being paid on time. So the contractors decide they're going to hold a meeting. All the contractors get together to hold a meeting and then they'll come to some sort of agreement and stop work. Curtis finds out about the meeting and he comes up with a plan quote.

I'm going to kill the contract. Oh good. I knew this mafia guy in Memphis. OK. Good start. Great start. So great start. Great start. Good. Smart. Good. Get the mafia involved. This is how you know it's going right. You've been rebuffed by NASA and then you turn to the mob. The mafia guy has a book of fake cashier checks. Oh Jesus. Curtis gets one. I mean what you really it has to be such a strange mindset to be trapped in the prison that he's basically trapped in which is that he's not going to win. He's not going to succeed but he's so screwed on a day to day basis that he's merely just trying to get through the day because you would like that right there that I mean

it would be a good come to Jesus to be like hey look this is screwed up real bad but instead he's like I just lie to him a little more and then I'll lie to them again. But he's that kind of guy that has always gotten it done. Yeah he believes right. So so he gets a he gets a cashier check from the mafia guy made out for two hundred fifty thousand dollars and then he crashes the meeting of contractors and lawyers he just barges in and he shows them the check quote but I'm not going to pay you until you get all this work straightened out. You guys are screwing me. So the lawyers all look at it and they confirm it's a real check because it is good lawyers.

Yeah workers return to work but still there's no pay. And then the main contractor Owen flow stops work and he puts all his bulldozers down to block the pavers from paving the track and he says I'm not going to move him until I get seventy five thousand dollars at a moment. Welcome to the Tiananmen raceway. So Curtis talks to his lawyer and his lawyer says quote it's your property and it's being invaded. You have a right to protect it. So Curtis leaves that meeting and gets his brother Smith and two of his friends and they roll up with guns. Okay sure. Owen's out with the bulldozers and he jumps out they jump out of the car quote put them up Owen and they cock their rifles.

What I mean that is just like the lawyers like sorry I should have been very specific with you. Do not threaten them with firearms. Just so we're clear. The workers all put their hands up and pretty soon the bulldozers are off and the paving has started again. How immediately you acquies. Yeah of course we'll start mix the concrete right now. I'm sorry I didn't realize it was that important to you. Sorry. The speedway is finished on June 12th. Wow. Okay. Is it. Well drivers come to practice but chunks of asphalt are coming loose and there are big holes in the track so it's just not ready. It's not ready. Yeah. Yeah you

just see Mario and Luigi. This is not ready. Curtis are we reworking repairing it that night. It's the highest it's the highest purse ever offered and it's a 600 mile race track but the races are all wondering if they can last that long and survive you know this track and oh also they don't have money to pay the purse. Okay so well it sounds like again I mean it sounds like we're really not clearing up the flags and the NASA and I by the I as someone who does not watch race car driving NASCAR I would absolutely watch an incomplete track race that to me would get me watching. Oh yeah. So NASCAR rules say you have to have the money in an escrow account before the race

and there's $75,000 short for the purse. So okay good news Curtis has planned for this more cashier's checks. So a few months before he bought a small bank in Virginia. Okie dokie. Now that bank whatever state rules federal rules whatever it was was only allowed to loan $12,000 to any person. Okay but he goes and has the bank president write a check for $75,000. So did he did he buy a bank I mean is so he's I mean he bought a bank he basically bought a bank that he could take advantage of and since he's in charge about the bank they're like well he's in charge. Yeah. Okay it's again it's a bold swing it is a big move. So he gives the president a note saying he'll honor it to make it seem legalish and he says

Monday morning he's going to come with the gate money and deposit it. I mean he's lying to his own bank. So the race happens it's not that great because of all the track situations but it goes off. Unfortunately they were expecting 70,000 people but only 35,000 showed up. So the money covered the purse but not any of the debt. Right yeah yeah they're just respecting the drivers everything else is still totally screwed. Yeah and he takes the money and flies it and so the check is covered for the purse. Sure. That was still illegal and I think they got in trouble the bank got in trouble later but sure. Now the teamsters at this time are trying to unionize pro athletes and he needs money and he meets with Jimmy

Hoffa's people and they say always a good sign always always a good sign when you hear that you're meeting with the Hoffa group. And he and they say they'll invest $800,000 in the track if Curtis will push for a drivers union and the debt on the track is now $875,000 that's just a lot. I don't know if you know how money works. It's a lot. It's just well look like I always say you're 12 banks away from being in the clear. So somehow Curtis he doesn't take up the team's offer he somehow gets a loan of 750,000 from these New York Bank but they but when you get a big loan like that they put board members on the board. Okay. So you lose a little bit control right? Yes. And probably I would assume people who

are like can I see those figures? You're like um no. No. Okay. We don't need we don't use what do you call them ledgers and bookkeeping. It's more of a we just kind of run it like I have a pile of money in the closet and I'll go in there and be like where are we at? What my associate is trying to say is that uh we don't subscribe to the usual way of doing business. Right. It's a fly by night. We it's just a much more hodge. It's like financial jets. Yeah. We're never sure where it's gonna go but we know that we're gonna find something along the way. Yeah. Like have you ever heard the term I know a mafia guy in Memphis? Like we work with what we have. We find ways to finagle things like um like when we take people's

pinky fingers. Yeah. Like that. That's one of the things. Anyway great to have you guys here. We can't show you anything. But we're gonna take them. I mean you'd be bored. You'd be bored members. You'd be bored board members. Yeah. Yeah. Oh God. We're fun. Okay. Yeah. So after some time profits are still not enough and the bank wants to foreclose an auction off the racetrack. All right. And here's a piece of broken asphalt. Why don't we start with the bidding of eight dollars. What's happening here. But the bank says if Smith and Curtis resign they won't foreclose. Okay. So he would still win win. They wouldn't be on the board but they would still be part owners. Right. I think that's what that seems great. Curtis

even though it's all going to fall apart. I mean I would say to me I'd be like yes great. Curtis refuses. He's like I'm not doing that. Okay. And so the board votes to remove him as president. Okay. It's really clear that Smith voted to have him removed. Okay. So the finals the final Smith card is played. Right. He has. Right. Merged and then taken over. He has clearly made a deal with the bank. I'll bet Curtis is glad he got into business with. And essentially everyone that he all of his friends and everyone he had brought in had already left because of Smith. So he'd driven out everyone else that was you know with Curtis at the beginning. So Curtis is super depressed or whatever. He

disappears for a couple of weeks. He's basically lost everything that he started with. Right. Because he everything he put up for collateral and stuff. He has he has nothing. A couple weeks later the creditors say they're going to need eight hundred fifty thousand in sixty days if the speedway is going to go on. So Curtis goes to the Teamsters. Okay. Wow. And a union for drivers. He listens to it. He's like this sounds like a good idea. Pension death benefits. It's actually very very helpful to do. I'm sure he was like yes. Anything. Yes. Yes. It's perfect. Please. God. Yes. I'll suck it stick. Please. Yes. So he agrees to push for the union and it's an easy sell. I mean none of these guys have any sort of

safety any net at all. Like they they need it. They do need one. Yeah. And right. Fireball Roberts and Buck Baker are the first racers who are in. Sure. And then of course fireballs in Tim Flock comes in. So these are big names and that fireball flock. Yeah. You guys you know I mean you know the classic posters of two of them. Yeah. So they talked to other drivers and mechanics. There's a lot of positive responses. Everyone is jumping in. Curtis then calls up and tells Bill France. He says I can I can save the speedway and we can have a union too. And France just listens and says OK I'll have to think about it. Now a few days later France is in Charlotte when the team says announced they have signed up majority

of drivers and there's a race plan that evening at a small track near there and twenty three drivers and some mechanics and car owners have a meeting with Bill France before the race. Now Curtis and Tim Flock hear about it and they go but they listen through a window that they cracked open. Perfect. Just professional shit the way you're supposed to do it. Absolutely. And France speaks and he reminds them that before NASCAR the sport was in chaos and how much he's done for them all and it wouldn't be like this if it wasn't for him. And he says a union will destroy all this quote make no mistake before I have this union stuffed down my throat I will plow up my two hundred and fifty my two point five million track at

Daytona and plant corn there instead. I will also tear up all the tracks I have an interest in in the state of North Carolina. I won't be dictated to by a union. Well Curtis was probably just like I mean they can drive around corn done worse. They can drive around corn plant corn corn will fall right over. They'll drive right through it. Yes. So this is this is a rich guy having a shit. Yeah. I mean right. Yes. Could NASCAR have a union. Of course it could. I mean Jesus Christ. Yeah. Yeah. And then he goes on to say after this race tonight anyone in the union will be barred from NASCAR. All right. Quote perfect. I will use a pistol to enforce it. I have a pistol and I know how to use it and I've used it

before. So he's by the way he's threatening the lives of people. That's talk. That is talk from someone who's never used a pistol. I have a pistol. I've held the pistol. I've shot a pistol and I know what a pistol is. They make a boom boom noise and things come out really fast. You pull back the metal PC and you put your little finger through the whole sliddy part and then you go push push or pull pull and then out shoots the projectile and it makes a booming noise and and you and you and you and you and you and it's a gun and I'm a hundred percent it's a gun. So after he makes this threat to kill other humans for joining a union Curtis holds a union car through the window and yells out quote here's

your application and 10 men immediately walk over inside their carts. Oh wow because people don't like to be I mean that is their fucking NASCAR drivers. You're threatening them. But also like I mean to just be like for France to just be like the hell. Hi. I was at the window. Here is the contract. So crazy. After that Curtis and France both go after each other in the press. Curtis says he'll get an injunction to stop NASCAR races if they bar racers. Now obviously France puts pressure on all the racers and everybody else. Fireball Roberts caves first. But he says look France can ruin my career. So he I'm going to take the olive branch but this is that's what it is. Right. Yeah. Right. Pure fear. France

says a fireball quote. France says fireball quote will regard this move as the best thing he ever did for sports in America. My guess is I mean there's nothing worse not the case than the sports unions. I mean oh what a terrible thing that's been. No. Well the truth is you always find ownership is always pretty honest. It's just the the fucking shit fit. And this isn't this isn't how does it. How does it always. How does it always work. It's not about losing money. It's about rich people don't like being told what to do. And that's what you need to say. You need to say take care of my workers and they don't want anyone. It's a little boy shit fit. That's what they throw. They're throwing shit fits. I also

I Josh Olson recommended I watched the movie Blue Collar with Richard Pryor and Harvey Keitel. And it's such a good movie. Yeah. But it's also it's just remarkable to like the way what the union I mean it what the union does as far as the power structure like the heads of the company like easy easy easy. No nobody's suggesting you quit like just like so scared to have a bottle of whiskey. Let's relax. Let's really you know what I mean it's like to actually have that I just am so foreign to think of a time when like you know they'd be like we're sorry we're sorry. Yeah. I mean the unions are basically saying you have to share and and the rich guys are saying no I don't want to share by any tactic possible

scaring you out of it. So at the end at the end of all this the fallout of the union thing is essentially everyone goes back. He France agrees to form a committee to handle drivers concerns more and more more and more renounce the union and in the end only two drivers are banned from NASCAR. Well that's quite a union. Tim Flock and that's a marriage and the most popular racer in America Curtis Turner. Oh wow. OK. So obviously now Flock hasn't won in a while so it's not that terrible for him but Curtis is he's the best and he's the most popular fucking racer out there. So he starts going to he first thing he does he goes to a smaller track and they're like you're done you know we can't let you in. So he and

Flock sue NASCAR for two hundred thousand dollars each. OK. And then Curtis finds out Congress passed a law two years before that forbid unions from lending money to anyone trying to organize a union on their behalf. So the team has played. Yeah. R2. And the show at Speedway is now a nine hundred thousand dollars of debt. Perfect. That's great. That's that's the goal. Right. Yes. And in December the Speedway is placed under chapter 10 bankruptcy protection. Now the trial happens for him suing France and all these drivers testify. France testifies one driver. I don't know how this happened but he doesn't know he's not supposed to say what happened at that meeting and he just comes out with all the

horrible shit that France said at the meeting like that he would kill people. And should probably talk to that guy before he gets on the stand I guess. And a friend of Curtis has said to friend friend Curtis quote he was embarrassed he's never going to get over this as long as he lives and Curtis just wants to race. Yeah. But the judge rules NASCAR can ban drivers. So besides the OK that's one of the things that's at issue besides the money that he's suing for. But it's can NASCAR. The judge rules that they can and that was based on that previous decision where they let Bill Bill France set all the rules that court decision. Right. It's based on it. Right. Yeah. Well it's weird. It's weird how all

that power is not OK. Yeah. So Curtis and Flock are the only two drivers who are black bald. They're both 37. So we're going to race each other to the bottom a race to the bottom. So the Ford Motor Company has been working with Curtis buying timber. I don't know why they need timber but they're buying wood. They've been working with them forever. And the new Ford Pines. They dangle this new deal in front of a really big deal and they say they'll drop the loss if he drops the lawsuit. So right. They're clearly working with Bill France to make the negative publicity go away. And then Curtis like OK well this will be a good faith message to France. And I can probably get back into racing if I drop

the lawsuit. So he drops the suit. Quote I figured France would reinstate me right there. And and then word comes that he is banned for life. OK dokey. Can you pick a suit back up once you drop it or is that sort of how does that work. Is it is there a five second rule or anything like that. Feels like you should probably. So Curtis has lost everything. I mean. Yeah. Right. He put all he put all his money into this race track and it ends with him not being able to race and the race track is in bankruptcy. It's just a disaster and no lawsuit anymore. Yeah. But fans he's the favorite racer. So there is just overwhelming support and people write newspapers and we assume everyone assumes

they're riding France. Everyone wants to see him race like it's right. It's just no one that doesn't. So he goes to Indianapolis to race in the five hundred which is not part of NASCAR. OK. I think it's the five hundred is one of those. It's the one with the. What are they. Yeah. The one where they go for the cars they race in Europe. The I don't know. The Formula one. Yeah. Formula one. He's so he has so little money he can't afford his own hotel room and he has to bunk with another guy. Wow. And then he crashes the car into a wall. He just can't handle it like a stock car. But he moves to Indianapolis with Anna and

the kids. He enters 14 races in the USA C series which is like a competitor NASCAR but not as big. He wins twice and then he announces he's going to build a one point five million dollar one point one point five mile track in Indiana identical to Charlotte as is I is identical something that we should be tossing around as far as that doesn't seem like maybe we try a different one like a small track a baby track. The race is going to be held on the same day as the Daytona. Oh good lord. Come on. Yes. But it's also like such an easy opportunity to clearly lose. Yeah. But look he's making he's making

most of his money out of from timber business. He's flying still. He's surveying the lands and trees. He's making tons of money again. Like it just immediately goes back into that. He's just it's like his fallback. Oh I can what I was just going to say what a great fallback. I guess I'll just make a shitload of money the other way. But then his closest friend is closest NASCAR friend driver Joe Weatherly is killed in a crash. Curtis doesn't think he'll ever be allowed in a NASCAR again no matter how much the fans demanded and it is announced by the Charlotte observer that he's going to retire. Now Fireball Robert says he's also thinking

about retiring but then his car catches on fire. He's burned over 80 percent of his body and dies a little while later. So now fans are like make the car safer. Now now we go back to the union thing right. Yeah. Well this is shit the union would have asked for to make the cars safer. They would have been problem. They would have been talking about this the whole time. So it didn't happen. People are dying. Fans are fucking mad about it. Drivers are angry drivers are saying they're going to quit like Richard Petty who's like this new up in Comer he goes I'm going to go drag race for six months like it's that's

that's petty. It's a fiasco for NASCAR 1965. It's a disaster. The changes that France then tries to make to correct it sounds like baseball is good for good for some and bad for others. It's like it helps this person. It's bad for that person. It helps forward Chrysler is now boycotting like it's a shit shit. It's just this you're trying to fix something way after when you should have. Right. No one's happy. The Chrysler Hemi engine is banned and Chrysler's like we're not going to have anything to do with racing. Fans are staying home. Far less people are coming out to races.

Bill France goes to a race and the entire crowd booze. OK. He's like that. All right. So by the way get used to that. That's like every commissioner of sports from then on probably. Yeah. Yeah. But I tell you my friend my friend used to see Bud Selig in Milwaukee and he saw him two times at traffic lights and he honked his horn and Bud Selig looked over and he gave him like the aces symbol and like nodded his head sarcastically and Bud Selig was like oh my God. Have access to that moment. OK. But sadly baseball would be so much

better off if Bud Selig was still charged. Oh my God. That's what a crazy thing. Yeah. I think you'd ever say that. Yeah. Right. But this but look this is this is Francis come up in Stein like he blew off the union and this is you're so you're not listening to your workers. You're not listening to the guys who are laboring and now you've got yourself in a shit situation. Short term profit. So the other track owners meet with the other big track owners meet with France and they're like you got to bring back Curtis. Like that's the only thing that can save us now.

Hmm. And they France and the other owners end up screaming at each other at this meeting. OK. There's also a new rival organization ended Curtis like dangle like a union contract in the window. Hey if you guys want to maybe an ownership union. There's a new rival to NASCAR that's starting and they're going to use Curtis to attract the crowds and it's working. OK. Fans start lining up to see Curtis race and so these owners are like get your shit together and after they have this big yelling match they're just like they just list all the shit that Francis fucked up

and he agrees to let Curtis back in. OK. So Curtis is about to race when he gets the call and he's like and he just bales on the race. Curtis quote I feel like a fellow who just got out of jail after a four year term. It says so he's at that other race track and then he's like I'm not going to do it. I got a good one now. Francis Curtis will enjoy all the privileges of NASCAR quote as long as he's a good boy. Fuck off. Are you kidding me. It's the same thing that Pullman said. This is how they think. Yeah. Right.

Right. Owners they don't think of them as men applying a trade or doing whatever they they think of them as their children. The term owners probably isn't helpful. Yeah. Curtis is fine with it as long as he can race drivers owners and other think he's now over the hill. I mean so much has actually changed in four years. There's a new group of young racers like it's all a different thing. It's weird though to me because it feels like racing is one of those. I mean since you're and I do think that it's not easy to drive like a race car.

I know there's like you know people like they're not athletes. It's different you know. But they're there. But I would I would imagine it's hard to lose a step. I mean unless you're like the older you get you're just doing shit like leaving your turn signal on. Well you know regular old people on the road. There was stuff like you know when he when he left he had grudges with other racers that would carry over race to race and right like one of the first races that he got into got into with a guy on the track and the and afterwards is oh you want to take me down because I used

to be the best because I did I have no idea who you are like it's well that's a really insulting retort you had because seriously are you serious because if that is that's really hard and depressing to hear right now and then I would also assume I don't know a lot about racing but just in anything there's little things that change there's little moves that happen there's little things people come up with and so four years might be a really long time I mean people are like I mean it is for sure yeah especially in the early days you know so people won't give him cars Richard Petty isn't racing so his dad lets Richard

Petty's dad lets Curtis drive the car he crashes it in the first race and people like yeah see but then in the final race in 1965 the north at the North Carolina Speedway in Rockingham he wins and the crowd goes apeshit like you know the king is back right in NASCAR sorry in 1968 Curtis Turner was the first NASCAR driver to appear on the cover of Sports Illustrated oh wow so his life's kind of back right he's got his money and sure no but and I don't know I mean yeah I mean I don't know just twisting in the wind for this whole story I don't know how to explain this but when they're all this daughter graduates she has some sort of

breakdown I don't want to go into it because I don't feel like anybody back then wrote it well but she's just kind of gone like she's just like sitting in a window staring okay like it's it's oh wow it's a breakdown of some sort so he's he's still married to her but she's not really there and he ends up meeting a 20 year old bank teller Jesus Christ good Lord I'm gonna buy this bank I just it's also like even even if I'm single like I just can't imagine falling in love with a 20-year-old when you're old oh it yes what are you talking about I mean yeah you got a raise yeah you you ready yeah I mean you have to yeah it gets it's

impossible yeah it's like a different I mean I may as well like data giraffe that's interesting so you're able to get those leaves that are up top because the neck enables you to that's fascinating I never actually even thought about something like that no my neck is actually standard size for my body it's fully proportional so you do not need to worry about that in any way with me how old are you you're over 20 okay thank God okay sorry yes sorry sometimes I do my man voice but yes well it's alright it's fine so he starts divorce proceedings against Anne and then Marys this girl I like that he's like I can't take this he

marries this girl bunny her name's bunny okay so perfect so he's right perfect no problem there on October the banker on October 4th 1970 he is in a race at Charlotte and his engine blows he then before the race is even over he goes to his plane and he gets in it the plane is behind the racetrack there's a runway there and he takes off okay flies over the stands tips his wing the national says of the PA well Curtis just went home and everyone cheers then he's flying home to Roanoke but he doesn't make it the plane crashes in Pennsylvania and that's the end of Curtis turn he had run around he had won

around 365 races in his career Bunny was pregnant with their first child when he died but look he was the guy who tried to unionize NASCAR really it's it's a fascinating story like he's yeah the best athlete at the time he tries to unionize even though he may have had we definitely did have alter your motives but he's still he's still thought well this is a good deal for racers this is a good deal for drivers and mechanics to have security and then yeah the guy didn't listen to him the guy barred him and then that guy had it blow up in his face because he needed to listen to the driver said he wasn't the main source for

this is full throttle the life and fast times of NASCAR legend Curtis Turner by Robert Edelstein yeah it is just shocking I mean I don't know it's I'm like that we're living through the version now of not having unions and it's not going well no I know it isn't I mean everyone I think people listen to this podcast or pro-union and you can you can just look at the the state of inequality in the state of the country and it tracks exactly with the lack of union membership wouldn't that be a better title for the country of the United States of inequality yeah all right bye bye okay bye bye bye