The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 552 - The Fort Dix Five

Episode Date: September 27, 2022

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine The Fort Dix Five Sources Tour Dates Redbubble Merch   Next Evo

When you're staying at an Airbnb you might be like me wondering could my place be an Airbnb and if it could what could it earn? You could be sitting on an Airbnb and not even know it. That in-law sweet guest house where your parents stay only part-time Airbnb it and make some money the rest of the year whether you could use a little extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. You're listening to the dollop. This is an American History podcast where each

week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American History to El Friendo. It was you were doing really well for a while. Gareth Reynolds who has no idea what the topic is going to be about put your flashlight down. Can I see your ID? Yeah. Can I see your ID please? Yeah. Do you know how fast you were going? Yeah. 69. Don't flip off. This is not good for a podcast. You know what? You could have described it. You could have. All right well here this is what I'll do. If you want to watch what's happening you can join our Patreon. We have a lot of great stuff. Great content. We have a lot of great stuff on our Patreon so you can

go join our Patreon. There's no chemistry between us at all. This is as negative a way to start as possible. I don't think this podcast is ever gonna take off. I really feel like this is the wrong stuff to say. I don't think anyone's ever gonna listen to this podcast. I really wish you were being a little more. How many we've done like 550. Our audience is 550 people. I'm trying to find one person. Oh okay and we have and even though there's nothing on there yet we do have a dollop YouTube that we started. We're gonna be putting a lot of good stuff. I'm in charge of that. No you're not. I'm not. There it is. This is

great. It's really good. What were you talking about when people see stuff? Were you just saying something about that? Well that I thought would be good. There is a dollop YouTube that has a great following. It's not ours so we're trying to get people to follow ours. So anyway join our Patreon. And called it quote his jam-packed. Jam-packed? I'm the fucking hippo guy. My name's Gary. My name's Gary. Wait. Is it for fun? And this is not gonna become a tiggly pod, Gary. Okay. This is like an a five-part coefficient. My room's a place. Now hit him with the puppy. You both present that sick argument. No sleep, no hippo. That's like no hippo. Actually, pardon me. Hi, Gary. No. It's done my friend. No, no.

Roder. Roder in the car. The dollop is brought to you in part by Next Evo Naturals. Look getting a good night's sleep. That's really important. That's the jam. I do different things to try to get a good sleep. I like to read a little bit before I go to bed. I like to work out. If I don't work out, I'm not getting good sleep. And then I don't work out. I get one night of bad sleep and then I'm too tired to work out that day and then I can't get more sleep. And then you can see the snowball situation. So look, if you're struggling, if you're having a hard time getting asleep, you

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That's N-E-X-T-E-V-O.com promo code Dallop. I'm taking them. I'm taking one right now. And then, all right, we are on tour. October 19th, Columbus, Ohio, October 20th, Pittsburgh, October 21st, Cleveland, October 27th, Grand Rapids, October 28th, Royal Oak, November 3rd, Nashville, November 4th, Louisville, November 5th, St. Louis, November 6th, Indianapolis, Kansas City, November 8th. So join us. Go to Dalloppodcast.com and there's still a link to our Moment House show on Thursday, September 8th. So that's good. Yeah. And we have a van. So we're probably going to kill a drifter. Yes, yes, yes. We are doing a van tour. And it's going to be bonkers

because as I was telling you before the show, whoa, baby, things aren't good. What I don't understand is I'm driving everywhere. I just spent two weeks on the road driving and it really has removed any faith I have in anything ever working out. And I just feel like everyone is fucked and it's just terrible. But the amount of trucks that are either painted like the flag, have the flag, have pride America, bald eagle on the, I'm like, they're seeing the same shit that I'm seeing. How are they going? Like, yeah. I think, I think, I think the number of flags is inversely related to how the country is doing. It is. As the country

gets worse, there's more flags. There are some where you're just like, do you deliver flags? Is that what is inside of this truck? If not, what is going on right now? Well, it's just so people know where they are. How else are you going to know? There is just no country like this when it, like, anyway. There was, there has been countries like this. They were, but they're still with us. All right, action. Start the show. 1980s. Whoa. Okay. Okay. Don't have an exact date. Don't I like the 80s. As, as Yugoslavia began to descend into chaos. Oh boy. Ethnic Albanian Muslims Lata and Frick Duka fled with their three young boys. Okay. Now I will

be saying Albanian names. Okay. Many of which I could not find pronunciations for. Okay. So just deal with it. Whoever's upset. Okay. Well, that's me, but I'll deal with it. But when you pronounce this guy's name in Turkish, it's, it's Frick, basically. His name is Frick. Yeah. Okay. All right. Frick. They ended up in a refugee camp in Latina, Italy for a year and then they got onto a plane to Mexico City from where they went north and crossed the Rio Grande River in a canoe. What? And got into Texas. Wow. Okay. All right. We're really, we're going. Yeah. Okay. All right. And then they were driven in the back of a pickup truck to

Dallas. That's how we got there. Dallas. By the way, that truck had so many flags on it. It's like, yeah. Yeah. You just hide under the flags. Yeah. And then they made their way from Dallas to the Bensonhurst neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York. Jesus Christ. Yeah. All right. So. So they don't speak English. Right. Okay. They had no, obviously no legal documents. Right. Which, which is a crime, but a misdemeanor. By the way, people don't know that. Being a, being here illegally is just a misdemeanor. It's the same thing as getting a fucking traffic ticket. Well, I think we're, we don't know, we don't react to traffic tickets the way we do to

this mystery. So Frick got a job stocking shelves at a fruit stand. Wow. At a fruit stand? Stocking shelves? Yeah. Oh, like in a bodega. Yeah. I know. I think it's like a fruity bodega situation. Okay. It's like all, it's a Korean, it's a Korean vegetable fruit stand kind of thing. Okay. Okay. He made $175 a week. All right. Is it the 80s? He made, what? I mean, is that, that's not great, but for the 80s, how's that? That's decent? Yeah, it's not. I mean, what was New York rent like in the 80s? Was it, I mean, just probably $100? Right. Well, when you get into Brooklyn, it's a lot cheaper back then for rent. Like that's where you could live pretty cheaply. So he made flashcards

to figure out what to call each piece of produce and fruit. Okay. Interesting. So like, you know, straw, apple, berry, apple. And then he would teach his wife a lot of English. Sorry, he would teach her a lot of English or her name's Lata. Her Lata. Okay. So he teach a lot of English. And a lot of English. Hey! Quote, our way of life was to just take care of our families, just live simply and teach the children how to work hard. Okay. Sure. They had two more kids? Jesus. Because not sure if I like that call. Yeah, that's where I get a little, how about just throwing a rubber on it? Try to pull out a little. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like, you don't have to know. You don't have to get. So they have a girl

and boys and now they have four boys and a girl. Their oldest is six years old. So when they went across in the canoe and did all that stuff, they have like babies and shit. Like they have super young, like I would have easily, one would have not made it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, it's a little Milo noticy. I never saw it. Oh, well, part of me thought about writing a dollop on Milo and Otis once, but it's just tragic. Yeah. Are they dogs? It's a dog and a cat, Milo and Otis. And apparently in the movie, survival of your stars was not a huge issue because you just brought in replacement animals and there's a river scene. Oh, no. Yeah. And, yeah. How old is the movie? The movie, I mean,

it probably from right around here. I definitely saw, I honestly, I think that I had the vinyl soundtrack as a, as a very young child. I think I had the, and the soundtrack to just to play against what you were thinking was not just the animals screaming as they probably died in the river scene. Anyway, I mean, that'd be cool if that happened to like, oh, wow, they had another Johnny Depp or something. Like the rock. They're like, all right, bringing another. We need another Depp. Yeah. Actually, can you get a different one and squeeze the alcohol out of that one? That one's a little. They all are full of alcohol. We're just sort of trying to figure out how to maybe find a new way to get some alcohol out of me or

something. Is there a crew member I can punch? I'm looking to lose my mind. So. He's eating velvet. So they're, oh, they're all, so they're all this is six years old. Okay. Tony. He, he, now he's called Tony. I don't remember what his name was before, but they just went, ah, what about Tony? Yeah, right there in Brooklyn. Yeah. So well, the other ones keep their name. So he goes to public school, but he, he struggles because he does not speak English, which is pretty necessary when you go to America. Tony, the answer to six plus nine is not Apple. Holds up a card. Apple. Apple. He would come home with notes from teachers, but that, that didn't help because his parents also couldn't read English. What

does it say? I don't know. Okay. Well, probably good stuff. You do good. Yeah. You've done very well. Bensonhurst, a very rough neighborhood quote, growing up, the Russians would be with the Russians, the Italians with the Italians and the Albanians with the Albanians. Sometimes if someone came to us, we had to fight. So they were getting in fights all the time. They come up with black eyes. And as they grew up, they grew up with Brooklyn attitudes. Okay. Brooklyn accents. Right. So all the kids, all the boys. Okay. The boy, all the boys have Brooklyn accents. Okay. Straight out of Brooklyn. Okay. They say in the business. So a little, so Tony, all this has a temper, gets into a lot of fights at school, drops

out at 14. Okay. He told his dad quote, if I don't, I'm either going to end up in jail or dead. Wow. So classic 14 year old stuff. You know what I mean? I said, you know, yeah, I said that to my dad. I probably sent us 12, but I'm like, look, if you don't give me the fuck out of this middle school, I'm going to end up dead or in jail. Like it's, it's you're a kid. Yeah. You know, we all go through that phase. It's adolescence. Yeah. It goes pubes and then you want to drop out because you'll end up in jail or dead. Yeah, you're going to cut someone's throat if you got to keep going to school. You know what I mean? So he got a job driving a delivery truck for a wholesale food distribution. I'm sorry,

14. Well, I mean, he must have been 16 or he wasn't, but he definitely dropped out at 14 and then, and then was driving a truck pretty soon after. So I don't know exactly for sure. So potentially illegally, but either way, very new to driving or shouldn't be driving and is driving a truck. I mean, are there rules in Brooklyn? Yes, no, there are. Oh, yeah. Yep. Okay. He meets a young lady named Jennifer Marino. Okay. She was going to school and he met her. Get out of there. What are you doing? You're going to a debtor in jail. Come on. A year later, they were engaged. So a couple of young, very young 16 that we don't know about. Is there some sort of clock on this? It seems like he's in a real rush.

It's crunch time. You know, he fell in love. And you know, if you're a truck driver, you know, I'm going to be dead by 18. So we should probably do this. I'm going to be in jail the dead soon. So we should hurry up. Get hitched. So she moves into the Duke's apartment. So he's living at home with his parents, but is having like an adult existence aside from that. Yeah. Okay. And there's no way they have a lot of room in that apartment. No, and he's definitely banging her. Oh, yeah. They're definitely banging. I had a sublet in New York for half a year once when I was there working. And, you know, it was in a Hell's Kitchen and it was not cheap, but it was like cheap for New York. And they listed

it initially as a one bedroom. And the reason why was because the family had put a shower curtain in the living room that separated the kitchen and that from it. And I mean, I had no choice but to really just kind of be like, from the pictures, I couldn't, you know, because there's no like doorway picture. So it was, I was like, okay, yeah. And then it was us. And then, you know, the guy was like, yes, but sort of you have the, you know, I'm like, and when I first moved in, he was like, do you cook? Do you need the stove? And I was like, I mean, really kind of an option I would love to have for sure. What's what's the downside to this? Okay, so maybe maybe they shout maybe they shower curtain to partition or something.

I'm sure it's something like that. So the next two brothers, Shane and I don't know I don't know how to say this other one, but it's ELJVIR, Elzvir, Olivia, Elzvir, so it's not what their eyes are like. So Elzvir, Elzvir. Okay, okay. I'm going to call them Elvira. Sure. Very, very. And again, Dave, it's always your sensitivity that I think people are very sensitive about the show. So they also dropped out of school because you know, we're going to die or be in jail. It's genetic. The Elzvir Chuck. Elzvir Chuck. I don't know why I'm doing it. They don't have an accent. I don't know why I'm doing that. So they all now get arrested. They get arrested for like disorderly conduct and that and having pot on them, you

know, just kind of like misdemeanoury, small type shit. But you know, they're getting in trouble. Right, right. Parents getting frustrated because they that's not why they came to America. So they decided to get out of Brooklyn and they moved to Cherry Hill, New Jersey. They should go to Albany. They're Albanian, right? You're so close. Damn it. You're so. Albany. They all speak Albanian there. I would be like, if I was going to New York and I saw on a map, Albany, and I'm Albanian, I'd be like, that's where we're going. Yeah. Okay. All right. So they go to Cherry Hill. They go to Cherry Hill. You know, they're hoping that the change will keep the boys out of trouble. Right. So they have a two bedroom apartment.

Oh, it's too shower. Tony, Jennifer and their baby are in one room. Yeah. What do you think was going to happen? I don't know. What did you think was going to happen? Well, they live on Pop to Cherry Hill. The parents are in the other bedroom and then Shane, Elvir, Nasi and Bareem are in the living room. Wow. So Shane gets into a car accident and it really shakes him up. Okay. Really like Roxas world. Quote, I realized that if I had died, then I would have gone to hell. Hmm. The accident made me realize the death can come at any moment. So I better try and get right. Which one is Shane? He's the. Shane is the second. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. So he stops drinking and stops smoking pot. How old is he? I mean, they're

kids to be quitting, quitting drinking when you're like 16 is quite a move. I'm done. And then he starts checking out religion. His parents, Muslims keep the bottle. Quote, it was a struggle because I didn't want to be fake. When I do something, I don't want to be hypocritical over here, praying and fasting, then over here in a nightclub smoking weed with a bunch of girls and partying. Right. So he wants to do it the right way. Right. He wants to religion the shit out of it, as they say in the, in the, the communities of the Bible. Now, is he, is he, is he Muslim? Is he going the Muslim route or is he? Well, his parents are Muslim. So they've been raised Muslim, but they're not practicing. But now

is he going to, he's, he's, he's leaning into the getting in. Okay. He's getting in. He's being Muslim. Yeah. Okay. His parents are thrilled. Right. The other side. That's where I, if I, this is what, this is how I would tell my parents if I was Muslim, that I was back in, I'd just go, Hey, mom, Hey, dad, which way is east? Hey, let me ask you something. And I might be asking it five times a day. Okay. Which way is east? Oh, there he is. Exactly. Come back. So the other boys, it starts wrapping off on them. And they all start settling in, you

know, it works moving out of Brooklyn works. They start settling into a life that's focused on work. What a knock against Brooklyn. Like, when you say it, like, I mean, I was ready to make a joke about that, but it's like, no, Brooklyn was literally the issue here. This was a Brooklyn problem. So you know, they're focused on family and work and, and they save money. And they use it to open up a pizza place that they call Duke's pizza. Okay. And they become even more religious. They just getting more religious all the time.

They start going to mosque praying five times a day. They grow out their beers. They're doing the whole thing. Okay. And then came a day that we called 9 11. Oh, God. Oh, Jesus Christ. I wasn't really sure we were on the timeline. Like anyone else, the Dukas were absolutely horrified. I have David. Also, I have a feeling. And now I'm just trying to remember how Americans reacted because of memory service. It was rational. Yeah, we were very calm to and we had debates about our part in our foreign policy that would

lead to someone wanting to attack us. We did all the self evaluation. I just remember a lot of people saying it wasn't Muslims here. I remember a lot of people saying that. Um, they're also very against the wars that Bush started. Like a lot of people. Yes, Muslim and non they felt they felt Bush was attacking countries that had nothing to do with 9 11, which is because they had nothing to do with 9 11. Well, I mean, I don't know about that. It's I think if we did send troops to Saudi Arabia right after. Yeah, that's right. Shane quote, they killed so many innocent people.

They also did not like how Muslims are now being treated in the West. Authorities are now warning people about all young Muslim men and they all feel it right. Shane quote, America was turning into a spy state. It used 9 11 as a stepping stone to justify this. If you can imagine. Well, isn't Shane right? What? Huh? No, I mean, it was handled right. I was in Boston on 9 11. And I mean, it was so quickly like, you know, you like it was very clear that people nuance was not for the citizens.

They were right away just like, all Muslims get to all muskier like, Oh, God, is it that easy to do for fuck's sake? Yeah, it is. But look, they continue to do well. Freak started his own roofing business and the brothers sold the pizza place to join him in it. Okay. By 2005, the Pete the roofing place is taking off the business. The brothers take a vacation. In 2006, they go to the Poconos. Wow. They bring along. Oh, okay.

Got to go to the pokes. Oh, yeah. They bring along Mohammed Schnuer, who is a taxi driver and he is. So El El Deer El Deer is is married now. And it's his wife's brother. So it's his brother in law. Okay. So they bring him along. Sure. On vacation, they go skiing, they do paintballing, they ride horses, they shoot a range, just do a bunch of different stuff. Tony tapes it all on his video camera, like taping the vacation. And then they bring the tape to circuit city.

Oh, God. Because they want to get copies of it to give it to everybody. As a recruiting video. Well, the circuit city clerk takes a look at this video. He sees young bearded Muslim men in the forest paintballing, shooting guns, riding horses, and sometimes saying out of Akbar. So he calls the cops. What else would you do?

I mean, just fucking do your circuit city job. Now in the COINTELPRO days, which is an FBI op in the 70s, the FBI had about 1500 informants working in the country, NARCs, snitches, as they're called. Today there's over 15,000. Now what does that mean exactly? Just undercover people who are in. They're trying to get their embedded citizens, not cops. These are just people out there that they're trying to get to snitch on other people. They're NARCs. A lot of them have long criminal records or immigration problems, which is

how the FBI pushes them into being NARCs. Always works. In 2006, the FBI approaches Cherry Hill resident, Muhammad Omar. He came to the U.S. in the 90s. He was now in the export car business, the exported cars to Egypt. The cars were what we call stolen. Hot. He'd been convicted of a bunch of different kinds of fraud.

So the government has leverage. So they just go to this guy. Right. He has nothing to do with anything. They just go to him and they go, quote, they showed me a photograph and asked me who it was in the picture. The FBI don't come and ask you if you know someone, if they don't already know the answer. Right. Okay.

So the pick was Muhammad Snewer, the brother. The brother, right, of Elvir's wife. Elvir, yeah. Now, Omar knew him from the local grocery store. Mm-hmm. Okay. You know, you're out there. I mean, really, really working the angle of, like, yes, I know him from the grocery store.

What do you know about him? He likes pineapple. Oh, boy. Like, what are you going to... He loves to... He likes cool ranch burritos. I always found that weird. I knew it. He likes orange soda. Oh, my God. What's wrong with this guy?

So the FBI, like, we want to know what this guy and his buddies are up to. Because of the Circuit City video. Yeah. Right. And Omar's like, yeah, I'll be a narc. Let's narc it up. Let's go to Narc Town. Right. Now, the Duke of Brothers thought Snewer was immature. Right? They think the brother-in-law is immature.

Immature. He doesn't have many friends. He's always trying to impress them constantly. Quote, one time he told us that a passenger in his taxi refused to pay the fare, so he got out of the car and hit him across the head with a baseball bat. So that's just kind of the cool stuff I've been doing lately. So anyway, what do you guys... What defines you? One time I jacked Nicholson to guy in the back of my cab because he wouldn't pay. I mean, mostly, I just pray five times a day and try to take care of my family.

I broke a crow's neck. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we're mostly just... That's the sort of stuff I do. We just work at the roofing... We work at the roofing business and, you know, just trying to, you know, jump a business, take care of the family. I killed a family and stashed them.

Okay. Who's winning the weekend besides me? I guess no one. I mean, it's your... Schnoor. Schnoor. Schnoor. Okay. Fuck. So obviously, Schnoor is lying, but, you know, we've all been around this guy.

Yeah. The guy just tells the craziest. So such bad lies that you're like, oh, Jesus. Also, yeah, like violent lies, you're like, yeah, that's not cool. Oh. So he doesn't have a lot of friends, right? Sure. Because he's that guy.

Right. So he pops up, starts hanging out at the grocery store. It didn't take long to get Schnoor to latch on and be like, oh, this guy likes me. I mean, he's got to like hit on him in the grocery store. I cannot imagine having to go to the grocery store to try to make a friend. That is such a lofty mission in a way. Like the FBI is like, yeah, befriend him. It's like, I only know he goes to the store.

So now you got to go to the store and just be like, Applejack's, huh? Man, that's so weird. I also love Applejack. Lucky Charms too. Dude. Wow. Okay. How do you, what's your marshmallow, sorry, just to sort of pick your brain.

What's your marshmallow angle? Here's what I do. I eat all the grainy pieces first, and then I leave myself two scoops of marshmallows at the end. And then I enjoy the marshmallow-y water. Are you like that? So, no, I actually have to go. Let me buy your stuff, I'm going to buy your stuff, let me buy your stuff.

What are you talking about? Let me buy your stuff. I just, I'm getting a good vibe. I don't even know you. Hey, do you frulf? What are you doing this weekend? What? Listen to us.

Just giggling like a couple old gal pals. Oh my Lord. Oh. I'm just, I'm really just trying to shop. Like I'm just trying to- Hey, me too. Shop. I can't believe we're shopping at the same time again.

Well, that happens because- Hey, hey, hey. Let's do two baskets, then we can both get in the 10 item or less, Lane. By the way, I don't know about you, sometimes I'll go in there with like 11 or 12 items. Don't tell daddy. Oh, man. God, I just am like, I have found my, my buddy. I found my best.

I'm going to check off too. Actually, it turns out I don't, it turns out I don't want to- I don't need anything either. Let's get out of here. What are you feeling? What do you want to do? Spa? No, I want to go.

I'm just going to go home. I'll go home. We'll go to your home. All right. Hey, we're not going to take the stuff out of the, the, the baskets. We're just going to go to his home. We just, I, hey, excuse us. We just hit it off so much.

We're going to go to his home. Not in that way. Although I'm open to whatever. I really, I'm not one of these, you know, I will, I will do whatever you are into. That's just kind of where I'm- I, I really enjoy people who just leave me alone like that. Ditto. Nothing is where-

I couldn't agree with you more. It is worse than someone who can't read the situation. All right. Let's go back to your place. Have some lucky charms. Hey, high five handshake secret guy. Awesome. So they talk politics and religion.

They talk wars. At the store. Well, no, just now they're friends. I know. They lock in pretty quick. Allow me the fun of picturing this all. Yeah. That's fine.

But they're, but they lock in pretty quick and they just start having really deep conversations. Sure. As you will with a random guy. Well, I guess also. Yeah. Okay. All right. Go ahead.

So Omar, you know, tells the FBI that Schnur seems to be into violence. And Schnur, because Schnur had said he watched graphic Iraq war footage online. So Omar off of that starts saying like you should do something about your anger about the war, like you should actually, you know, do something about this because you're mad. And is what, what is, where is the FBI stopping and Omar starting? Is the FBI like kind of, you know, so he is trying to go to him in a direction of action. 100%. Right.

So then, so then the FBI can go, you were going to do this, which happens all the fucking time, obviously, where the FBI will be like, there will be like informants who are like pushing someone to do something. And then they'll be like, not so fast buddy. And he's like, you told me to do this. They're like, huh? So yeah. So he's, he's pushing them.

They start talking about what that thing could be that they do and they land on a plan, an armed attack against Fort Dix, which is a military base near Trenton, New Jersey. And for all of you laughing right now, it's not the time. All right. On August 2nd, 2006, in a conversation that's recorded. So Omar is wearing a wire. Wow. Okay.

Omar said, quote, you and I are not enough. And you had told me that maybe there could be other people. Otherwise we can't do anything. So Schneuer says, yeah, I have people who I wouldn't be telling the plans to if I didn't trust them. So I trust these guys. And he names a guy named Serta Tatar. Now Tatar's dream is to become a cop. That's been his dream since he was a kid.

But right now he worked at his dad's pizza place. Okay. And Schneuer said, quote, he is ready. He has a map. He used to deliver pizzas there. He has a map of where are they? A Fort Dix. Okay.

Okay. So he, okay. And Omar says, ready to be killed. And Schneuer says, yes, two days later, they talked about bringing in more people. And Schneuer named the Ducal brothers. Wow. Okay. So they're a net, a net spin cast.

Yeah. So Omar approaches Tatar and tells him of the plan to attack because Schneuer has told him that this guy's okay with it. And he said he needs the pizza delivery map. Now at this point, Tatar has moved to Philadelphia and he's working in a 7-Eleven. Okay. And there's a Philly cop that comes by every day for his coffee. And he wants to be a cop really bad.

So Tatar tells him about what had just happened and that this guy Omar has a plan to attack Fort Dix and wants a map. So the cop tells the FBI and the FBI doesn't do anything. Oh, my God, they're like, yeah, yeah, we're directing that. That's us. So mom's the word. Three weeks go by. So, I mean, again, it's like, yeah, it is so shady.

Tatar is just waiting for the FBI to contact him. They're not contacting him. He even sees Omar again and records the conversation so he can give it to the FBI. And in that conversation, Omar keeps asking for the map. And then for some reason, this we don't understand why, Tatar gives him the map. Right. I assume he thinks, well, the FBI's going to take us. Yeah, I mean, well, also in my head, I'm like, like he delivered pizzas.

Like this is not a blueprint of the facility. Like this would be like what I would imagine like a place mat mat would be. I think it's like when you go into any, I mean, we know it very well. Driving on a lot of studio. Yeah. And it's just like building numbers. It's not like this event leads to here. The sewer system go retracts around over, you know.

Right. It's just like this is building for it. So whatever, he gives it to him. And then, and then after he gives him the map, a Philly cop on the FBI's joint terrorism task force comes to talk to Tatar. Okay. But as he's talking to him, he's obviously saying, and this guy wants to attack Fort Dix and the cop keeps downplaying.

No, no, no, no, no. No, I mean that it, I can't, it just seems like something someone wouldn't do. You know, this is after 9 11, by the way. Right. In a 7 11. So in a 7 11 9 11. So he also didn't want the recording that he had made. He didn't.

He's like, look, buddy, stop. We're not worried about this. You are obsessed right now. But they're talking about like shooting Fort Dix. Enough. Yeah. Yeah. Let them do it.

Let them do it. Let them do it. Let that we would like to see them try. Literally. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. You got this tape? Yeah.

It's right here. Yeah. The map is here. Yeah. I mean, again, it's just the guy's name. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

All this is all right. Yes. It's all right here. Where are you on 9 11? What? That has that? That is totally a rel, that is irrelevant. Okay.

Where were you? I was, I was in, I was in New York. Huh. There though. I was in the city. I wasn't a hijacker. I think I was even in the suburbs probably. So what?

I'm giving you information to stop an attack. Are you? Yes, literally. You just work at a 7 11. Yes. 11 11. Yes. What kind of celebration?

No. No. I mean, we're celebrating Halloween. You can tell by the decor, but that is it. Okay. Look, let's just let them do it, right? What? Let's just let them do it then.

Is your attitude? Seems like. Oh, let them. Yes. That's what you're doing. Your buddies. Yeah. I mean, yes, I get, because I got contacted the FBI a month ago.

Yeah. So I gave them my pizza map. Again, it's not an elaborate map. You're sweating. It's, of course, because this is the worst. Do you know how many people have died because of pizza maps? I don't think any. Thousands.

I mean, it's just mostly a list of places. This one guy likes black olives and another guy hates anchovies. I don't have any gate codes or anything. They're armed guards outside. I don't like the amount of pauses. It's not helpful. So he, he does all of a sudden just ask Tatar. He goes, did you give them the map after not caring about anything?

Right. And then with all this stuff, Tatar is like, oh, fuck. He's just like, I'm being set up here. I mean, the map is a mistake, obviously, because it is like, you know, now there is an implication, but it's like, you have to, I mean, especially if you're Muslim, I mean, at any point, really, but especially now you have to work on like a curve. So it's like, you need to, you know, there as opposed to like, oh, well, yes, I gave them the map, but I've also recorded a tape and I've also contacted you a number

of times, you know, you, you. To him, he's an American guy who wants to be a cop. Yeah. I know. Yes. Right. You know, of course. But, but the FBI, they're like, you gave them the pizza map.

It's like, oh my God. So what he does is he lies and says, no, I didn't. Okay. All right. Well, it's kind of the worst thing he could have done because he's scared. Yes. Yes. Right.

Yes. I've liked. Got the map. Now he's got the map. Omar pushes. She knew her for a meeting with the Duke of Brothers, right? But it just keeps not happening because she never just comes, comes up with excuses of why they can't meet.

Once he said, actually, Shane knows about the plot, but he doesn't know you're involved to Omar. So I can't have you meet him yet. Okay. Right. So months go by and he's just pushing and pushing and pushing and he keeps saying that the deal goes around, but then that's all he's doing is not introducing him. So Omar is pushing harder, specifically, he starts first focusing on, uh, on, uh, Elzvir.

Okay. Between August 11th and September 19th, Omar asked him about Elzvir a hundred and ninety seven times. Well, that doesn't leave a lot of room for other things. I mean, that is, uh, a level where you'd be like, I mean, at that point you'd be like, I'm not going to tell you anything. This is crazy. Dude, you're like, this is weird.

I'm obsessed. Have you talked to him? Have we see? Have you tired from him? Did he get my e-vite? Yeah. It's, yeah, this is weird. I need to, what did you hear?

Do you like know him? Did you guys break up or something? Like, no, I need to know him. Is he in? Have, when are we doing the meeting? We're, yeah, we will, but he's not, he doesn't know you're a part of it. So I can't. All right.

Is it happening now? No. Yeah. Yeah. Like it was two minutes ago that I said that. So it's not happening now. It's not. So just wait longer.

Yeah. Okay. All right. I should probably try to schedule it though, right? I have a clicker. I have a clicker and I'm clicking it every, I'm clicking it every time you bring him up now because this is weird. Well then I'll just bring him up now.

I mean, what is the deal? What is his deal? We don't need, I mean, did you see the Giants game this weekend? Yeah. Okay. What's his deal? 10. I'm talking about their kicker.

Oh. No, I wasn't. I'm talking about Elsevier. Look, we need him. 11. I need to talk to him. Okay. No.

All right. Fine. Look, I don't, we can, I mean, whatever. It's fine. Okay. Okay. Do you want to go? See him?

Do you pay Paul or something? What? Did you say see him? Go see him? No, I said, do you want to go play? With Elsevier? Go see him? 12.

13. Is that 15? I don't know. I lost count. You know who's really good at counting? He is. I bet you he'd be able to tell us how many times I asked. We should go see him and do that.

So after all this time, finally, Omar goes to the FBI and he's like, the Dukas don't know anything about the plot, they just don't, and the FBI's response, quote, they said it was none of my business. I just wear the wire and record. Feels you're part of a team. Benzik Bakali was a 29 year old undocumented immigrant from Albania who was in jail waiting to be deported. Okay.

And that's where the FBI came to visit him to ask him to be an informant. They showed him pictures of the Dukas and they said they would be at Dunkin' Donuts in Cherry Hill after Friday prayers, because that's where they went every week. Uh-huh. Right. Where most terrorism happens. So in July 2006, he was there. So they had two different narcs working at once.

Right. It was so awkward, you guys also like pink donuts with sprinkles? What a, how you doing? So he's there in the Dunkin' Donuts and they come in and he's talking very loudly on the phone in Albanian, so they will notice he's Albanian, and the Dukas introduced themselves and soon they're very good friends with the narc. Okay. So easy.

Uh, they would hang out often for months. See, this would be so hard to do to me. I guess it's different obviously because I have spent my entire life here. I'm a white guy, so, but I would, but if I, connecting with me randomly and public is just not going to happen. It's not going to work for me. No. But again, like what if you're in Czechoslovakia?

Totally. It'll be different if someone walked in and they were like, the Packers need to work on their special teams. I'd be like, who's this tall drink of water? A hundred percent. If someone wants to frame you, they just come in and wear a Packers shirt. Oh, dude. I think it would be, it is extremely disarming.

I just be like, yeah, I mean, without, I'd be like, nice Clay Matthews, Juicy. You like J.R. Alexander too? So he talks about wanting to be a better Muslim with them. That guy would see my tattoo in 30 seconds. I'd be like, hello. I'd be like, Jesus, this is easy. Okay.

Sorry. So Bacali starts asking about Jihad a lot. And did they have to perform Jihad? Shane, quote, me and my brothers did not take these questions as out of the ordinary. At that time, all you were heard on TV was Jihad terrorism, Islamist this, Islam that. So we thought he was just new and trying to understand no red flags. Right. Omar and Bacali would bump into each other once in a while, but neither know the other

ones in Ark. Right. Interesting. Omar, quote, I hated that guy. Didn't like the look of him at all. Right. Working for the same people. You know, he reminded me of, you know, what he seemed like to me, a narc.

Yeah. That's the vibe I got. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. He's just always bring, he just kind of would bring up big plots out of nowhere. Just kind of not my sort of thing. Anyway, do we have that pizza map for Fort Dix?

So the dick is now trust both of these guys, Omar and the Dukas would talk about cars, which the brothers love cars, the pics are moving the recorded, all the recorded conversations that the FBI has is just talking about cars and food and family and work. You know what is great about that is just that like there's someone at the FBI just had to sit there like, oh my God, no, no, he's like, you know, I actually, that's not my, I think the better Audi person, you know, like, there's like, Jesus, come on, get to the plot. Sometimes the news would come up.

They talked about being against the wars. They talked about how Muslims in the U.S. were targeted. Right. Yeah. I think I was like, uh-huh, right, right, and now they should help Muslims outside the U.S. resist. Right. What was going on?

So meanwhile. So controversial. Yeah. All the stuff that I would talk about. So meanwhile, Schnuer and Omar are spending their time together watching Jihad videos and listening to radical Muslim lectures. So Omar's just introduced this guy who had, who was just a taxi driver to all this radical Islam shit, that's all he's doing.

They also showed some of the videos to the Dukas. Sometimes the Dukas ran to it. Tony at one point got really fired up by an Anwar al-Awlaki lecture who was a Yemeni-American who was assassinated by drone by Obama. And Tony said in the middle of this quote, this is the real truth straight up. No holds barred. But they never talked about doing terrorism. Right.

Yeah. I mean, there's a huge, like, hating America can't be a crime, especially if you're Muslim at this time. Yes, yes. So Elzvir said daily struggle against personal vices like greed and lust was the greatest form of Jihad. Right. And the FBI.

He says that on tape. Right. And the FBI was like, can you delete that? Actually, can we treat that? On September 22nd, Omar told Elzvir that he and Schnuer were working on a quote plan. No details. Just vague plan. And Elzvir said they should seek out a fatwa or get an Islamic legal opinion.

Super balanced advice is coming from, like, I mean, like, if you're the FBI, like, God damn it. He's really, he's very rational in his rage. These are the worst fucking terrorists I've ever tried to get. I'm starting to feel like these guys are terrorists. Stop it, Barry. We'll get them there. Knock it off.

But Kali keeps telling the Dukas to do something, right? And he would shame them for not defending Muslims. And he would get them riled up sometimes. Once all excited, Tony said he was, quote, going to start something and that you can do a lot of damage, man, seven people. And this is recorded. Okay. Remember Tony's the guy that had the anger issues, the fighting and all that.

Yeah, right. Jose's here. But the two NARCs, the two NARCs cannot get the Dukas to actually do anything. Because they don't want to do anything. Right. Yeah. I mean, and now they're pushing. I mean, pushing.

Oh my God. Like. It's crazy how much they're pushing. So Tony said, quote, we can't, the biggest jihad for us here in America is to spread Islam. That's the most important thing. That is war. Through killing me.

That is jihad. Jihad is not just like we say to go fight. No people misunderstand it. The first jihad is with yourself. When the devil tells you do this, you try, you fight with the devil. No, no, no, I won't do it. I mean, the second jihad is with your family to work to teach Islam to your children. Then you should spread Islam in to tell others this is Islam.

I mean, those are the jihad, I mean, it, uh, no, those are me hodds. And that's way, way different. I mean, the FBI, I would imagine at this point would be like, all right, look, we should just find some other people to just manipulate. I mean, these guys are pretty, this is pretty tough. Well, they could, but remember, by the way, they are probably, you know, this is all time. The FBI listened to recordings. It's all time and money.

They're putting in man, hours and money. But it's, I mean, again, it's like so much of, you know, it has to be kind of based on your, your, the human nature. And if you're actively manipulating and kind of dropping in these ideas constantly, it, you know, you are, um, these people are, even if they're susceptible to this heavily heavy manipulation should not be part of this. You should not be allowed to be like, because, because annoying people, you just say yes to to make them go away at some point.

Yeah, right. Yeah, true too. And as well, and all other stuff you're saying where you're just like, no, no, no, look, man, you got a jihad in your heart first. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, look at the pizza map, dude. This is how you jihad. We got a jihad, jihad.

Even after Tony says all that, a Bacali steeps, still keeps at it. And Tony says, look, our obligation is for our family, especially my kids. That's it. All right. So we kill your family. Tony, it's gross. I just, can you say that into my nipples? So in early 2007, they take a trip back to the Poconos, they bring Bacali and Omar with

them. Okay. Terrible. As they played paintball, Omar said, quote, this is like an army exactly, dude, it's so overt. You know what? It's so bad. What do you mean?

I was just saying, it's like, wouldn't it be better if these were bullets and we were killing Americans? Say something. Say yes into my nipples. No, I'm trying to be coming to my nipples. She's not the fuck up. All right. Let's just, hey, let's pretend like we're actors.

Say yes into my nipples when I say this. I know. I don't want to talk to nipples, dude. Am I the only one who, when I do this, just thinks about how we should do this to the white Americans? Those people are terrible. Say yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. No. No. What are you talking about? Someone come over here and say yes into my goddamn nipples. Well, sitting for a night you want me to do that?

No. No. Grrr. I'm not even gonna get impatient! Come on, watch the video. Okay. Let's go together. Let's go, yeah.

Let's go. Okay. Yummy, mmm. The narca operation is a year old, a year old, hundreds of hours of surveillance, two paid informants, and they have nothing. They have nothing except for more circuit city videos. And plus remember this started with the video and now they've gone on a trip with them to actually do it the day before and it's clearly, it's clear they're not doing it.

It's recreational. The FBI has proof. That's what they do. They go out and fuck around. Yeah, they play. Okay, I mean, if you are going to follow every American or every person, I guess, who paint balls, there's a lot of people paintballing. I've paintballed.

It was never training. Oh, I bet you have. And I've painted my balls. Now, the Dukas love guns. It's like an Albanian heritage masculine thing, right? Sure. Imagine a country having that. Nope.

Omar knew they love guns and that they didn't have proper immigration papers, so they couldn't buy guns, right? But they at this time are applying for asylum. Okay. So in March, 2007, Omar tells Tony he had a friend who has a gun shop in Baltimore who wants to make under the counter sales $500 each. Now they know it's not legal. But they thought they could get the guns and then transfer them into their names once they

get their immigration papers. Omar pushes Schnur on tape to say if the Dukas know why they're getting the guns. And Omar, quote, don't tell me you didn't tell them, Mohamed. Schnur. And they know, Omar, that we, for example, are training in anticipation of something like this in the future. Schnur. Yeah.

Yeah. But that's all the tapes are for a year, right? So Omar then gives Tony a list of the weapons that they have for sale. Tanks? The list has been put together close. The list has been put together by the FBI. Right. That's what I'm saying.

So it's like the FBI is going to be like, here's a dream list. Let's see how bad. Yeah. AK-47. Okay. Sure. Handguns. Yes.

M-16s. Yeah. Okay. Also, rocket propelled grenade launcher. They could take out tanks. What the fuck? What's that? An M-60 machine gun.

It's like Q. Okay. Now, Tony is definitely like, this is weird, not right. Now, these cabinets are also grenades, Tony. No, I was just thinking we maybe got a couple handguns. Yes, you could do that. But this tie can also turn into a grenade launcher. You just have a look at that, would you, Tony?

Any interest in something like this? No. This is a pair of boxer shorts that's actually a cannon. How about this simple taxi cab here that also is a bulletproof tank? So you just run a gun shop in Baltimore? Yes. That's right. You just run a gun shop in Baltimore.

Now, this chewing gum is also sarin gas. Any interest in something of that age? You bloody terrorist. You don't kill me? Yeah. What? What? Who did 9-11?

What? What? What do you think? No. Nothing. Here. These spectacles are also lasers that make fire. Any interest in something like that?

Would be great for a bit of a jihad, jihad, what did you jihad for lunch? This simple umbrella is also lava. Okay. I'm actually going to take off because you're insane like I don't. Do you want any interest in a bomb? No. Okay. This bowling ball is actually a common weapon because then we can use-

Why would anybody want that? Use the pizza map. What? Your words- How do you know about- What? How do you know about a pizza map? Just go kill the white man.

What? You hate white man? You said- What do you say? No. Oh. I didn't say any of that. But you've killed a white man before.

I- White Americans? I just want a gun. Oh, you do want a gun? No. Any interest in an umbrella that's also lava? No. How about these laser spectacles?

How about them? I don't want them. I want a fucking gun, man. Come on. I'll get them for free. I'll pay you to take them. Just talking to my tits. Yeah.

So it's- look, Tony wants the AK-47s, the M16s, the handguns. They want guns. Sure. He also asks if there's anything he needs to know about stuff on the list because, you know, rockets. That kind of thing. So- And then I was like, no, man, it's totally on the up and up.

Up and up. It's all good. I like saying it's on the up and up. First of all, that's the new way to say it. Second of all, okay, so they- but they are gearing up. So why are- why do they want AK-47s and machine guns? Because they love guns? Yeah, they love guns.

Okay. Like, they're just- They're from a gun culture. They're from America. It seems strange for people in this country to just kind of randomly want those weapons, I guess. So on May 7th, Tony and Shane go to an apartment the FBI had rented for Omar to check out the guns.

Tony quote, now we don't have to wait in line to shoot in the Poconos and then, right, as he said that, the cops busted in the door and threw them on the floor and arrested them. Now the brothers assume it's because they were buying guns illegally. There's Bareem and Elsvier, we're not there, they come back from taking their nieces and nephews for ice cream to find cop cars and SWAT vans around in their apartment and they are handcuffed and thrown on the ground. Bareem's a teen still, so he's not arrested, but the other five are arrested. The FBI agent said to Bareem quote, don't grow up to be like your brothers.

You should think about finding yourself a new religion. And hey, I mean, FBI, I mean, how are you not, how are they just not better trained to cover the bullshit? Because they know they're not going to get any trouble. Yeah, right. But it's a man. I mean, it's a man. This is about religion.

Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Easy. Yeah, I mean.

The next morning there, the arrested brothers are driven past tons of reporters on the way to the courthouse in Camden, New Jersey, so they, you know, they do a, what's a perp walk in a van? America is American. That's a court where they learn they're being charged with conspiracy to murder US military personnel. What the fuck? Crazy.

Shane, quote, I was confused at first, but for the most part, I breathed easy when I saw that. I figured they mixed us up with someone else and we'd be out of here as soon as we cleared things up. Wow. I can't be honest, we're just, they're by God conspiracy to blow up for dicks with a pizza map. Wait, what?

You heard us. What? Guilty. No. The jury reached the verdict. I'm a root. I do roofs. I mean, that is crazy.

That is a crazy. It's just like, sorry, um, what, when did we do that part when they brought it up to you a bunch? That's when you decided you were going to do it. I just like, I like watch Eddie Murphy and paintballing. Come on. We're not idiots. We know what you're doing.

Paintball. Yeah. Nope. Write it down. Write it down. Paintballing. Oh, yeah. Trying to recruit, trying to recruit, trying to recruit me.

They're actively trying to recruit in the court. So the complaint is mostly just tapes of Schnuer saying stuff to Omar. They're like, all right, well, once we get our hands on this Schnor guy, we'll have... No, he actually is on our side. Well, Schnuer's in there with him. Yeah, right. But he's... Right.

But he's not going to get in any trouble. So they read the complaint and Shane, quote, after reading it, we all turned to Schnuer. Is this really true? You went to a military base and you said this and that, and Omar was an informant, unbelievable. We are all pissed at Schnuer. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, you're pissed at Schnuer. The person you should be arresting is your inform, is the guy you've turned, right? Well, what, Omar? Yeah. No, he's a narc. He doesn't get arrested. That's what I mean, though. If you're reading all this stuff, you're going, oh, this is the bad guy.

This is the bad guy. You're like, well, no, that's, no, that's the good guy. That's the good guy. What? That's the good guy. That's our guy. So they realized he had been saying they were involved in the plan to attack the fort. Besides conspiracy, they are charged with trying to buy the guns.

Right. U.S. Attorney Chris Christie holds a press conference. Good lord. Oh, my lord. And heaps praise on the amazing law enforcement officers who had stopped a terrorist attack. Oh, my God. Quote, believe me too, these people were ready for martyrdom. They spoke about martyrdom extensively on the tapes.

They said they were going to do this in the service of Allah. Oh, my God. And we just sat there and we're like, well, that was close. That was close. Yeah. CNN was like a terror. Wow. Just so easy, so easy.

So the Dukas spend over a year in solitary confinement at a Philadelphia detention center. The trial began October. What are you in for? I'm pretty sure paintballing paint, paintballing and Eddie Murphy. Oh, I wrote a horse paintballing pretty much. I didn't, I didn't paintball on the horse though it was separate, right? Separate charges. So the trial, like I said, it's all based on what Omar and Schnur said to each other.

Omar made, as a narc for this operation, $238,000 because he was paid $1,500 a week and he would not be deported back to Albania where he was facing charges of shooting someone. But now the U.S. got Albania to pardon him. So basically two criminals, the only two criminals with this entire story are now the FBI paid a quarter of a million dollars and the other one gets away with his crime and gets to stay in America. That's all that's happened here. Well, yeah, but come on, do you hate America?

Stop it. Now the judge keeps the names of the jury anonymous because he called it an exceptional and dangerous case. Because if they found out who it was, then whoever they work for, Al Qaeda, they might get free roofs on their house. The prosecutor argued the dukes were inspired by a jihadist ideology, quote, their inspiration was Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. Their intent was to attack the U.S.

Now conspiracy charge. Conspiracy charge is a fakie mid-uptown. The intercept, quote, they just needed to demonstrate based on the brother's state of mind that the dukes had knowingly and willfully entered into an agreement and that at least one had performed an overt act to further the agreement. Giving the map. Oh my God, this fucking map, this pizza map. From the jury instructions, quote, often the state of mind with which a person acts at

any given time cannot be proved directly because one cannot read another person's mind and tell what he or she is thinking. Right. However. That's a big however. A defendant, yeah. A defendant's state of mind can be proved indirectly from surrounding circumstances. Right.

So. Thus. So you may. Okay. Thus to determine a particular defendant's state of mind at a particular time, you may consider evidence about what the defendant has said, what he did, and failed to do, how he acted, and all other facts and circumstances shown by the evidence that may prove what was in that defendant's mind at the time.

So you're just assuming what is in someone's mind. Yeah. Yeah. I mean thought crime. Yes, thought crimes, but they thought thought crimes based on circumstantial nonsense, right? You can just say, well, they watched this video, so they want to kill people like that kind of stuff. Right.

You can just. I mean, they have nothing. Nothing. They have nothing. They have absolutely nothing. They have nothing. They have people. I mean, they have a pizza map.

Yeah. They never said they take part in an attack, mostly because they were not going to take part in an attack. Right. Right. So the government has to prove that they're indirectly involved in something that they never said they had anything to do with. Right, which is tough.

But then when Chris Christie's like, man, that was close. You know, like we, we the public are like, oh, thank God, they're trying to kill us. So the court allows the recording, the recording, remember when Tony said he was going to start something? Yeah. He got all fired up. Yeah. Right, but when Tony said, quote, the biggest jihad for us here at America is to spread

Islam that the judge considered hearsay and did not admit, right. So all the stuff he had said about taking care of his family and what jihad was, right, that's all out. Right. I'm going to start something as in, right, which is completely vague, right. So the only way the judge would let that statement in that Tony made about jihad is if Tony would take the stand and his lawyers are like, you're not taking the stand in this situation. That's it'll be a disaster.

Right. Omar and Schnuer, uh, had downloaded scary Islamist videos, as I said, the jury watched all the videos. Well, but that's someone fair, that's like, that would be like me showing you filthy porn. And then just because I showed it to you, telling your wife and being like, he watched all this and you be like, you showed it to me and I'd be like, this isn't about me asshole. So in one of the videos, US soldiers are being killed, right. Shane quote, jury number three got up from her seat before exiting for the break, gave

us all a stare of death, turned around and slammed the binder of transcripts down. Her son had served two tours in Iraq. She told the reporter quote, I thought I was seeing my son get hit. I mean, you know, look, it like this is just the problem is even trying to speak to the nuance of what she's feeling and what they're feeling. We just have no ability because her fucking son shouldn't even fucking be there. Yes, right. You know, like, and, and if you say that at this time, you hate, I mean, they did such

a fucking good job of labeling, questioning the mission as hating the troops. It was that quick of a reaction. You would go, we didn't find any weapons of mass destruction. You hate the troops, you have to support the troops missing the idea that supporting the troops by saying keep them home unless they need to go do something is the ultimate. You hate the fucking troops. You're sending them there for fucking for what? Well, the other thing is, is because nothing has ever happened, essentially what the government

doing is doing here is traumatizing a woman by showing her videos. Emotional manipulation. Yes. That's all that's happening. She never needed to see this because she shouldn't be on this jury because this trial shouldn't exist. And she shouldn't need this, not only, but she shouldn't have that reaction because her son should not have ever had to go all of it and, and, but, but again, you have no,

you're not allowed to say that. You're the person not standing up for the anthem when you're questioning, why do we stand up for the anthem? You're the person who hates America. You know who who does have the truth expert witness on Islamic terrorism and promoting terrorism online, Evan Coleman. Evan Coleman grew up in Boca Raton, Florida. He studied political science at Georgetown and then he got a lot of degree at Penn, never

took the bar exam. But he was hired at a think tank as an intern. The think tank is called investigative project on terrorism quote. In 1998, I started obliviously as an intern, but by the time I left in 2003, I was a senior analyst. I feel like I'm going to like this guy. That works. That's not how that works.

So we have our hero. That's not how. While he was at the think tank, he wrote a book, Al-Qaeda's Jihad in Europe, the Afghan Bosnian Network, which he submitted for peer review to the University of Penn Press, his law school. They rejected it because it was fucking nonsense. He then got it published with Oxford International, which has absolutely nothing to do with the University of Oxford, but it's where people get stuff published to make it seem like it's

associated with the University of Oxford. Well, that was easy. And now he's considered a terrorism expert. Great. All right. And now he's a huge part of this trial. Yes. Right.

After 9-11, Evan was a bit of a go-to guy. He has consulted with the Defense Department, the IRS, other government agencies. And since the government labeled him as an expert, he has been on NBC, MSNBC as a terrorism expert. And he claims he can monitor Islamic terrorists in the deep web. I mean, that's one of those ones where if you say you can, I mean, I don't know how we really can prove you wrong kind of. I mean, well, you would need to be busting up cells.

But as we're proving right now, that is like an easy thing to fabricate. Anytime someone's like, yeah, this is about the deep web, because you're just absolutely full of shit. Right. Right. There's no scientific thing. Dark web. Deep.

I'm involved in the deep dark web. Have you seen like the illusion trench, the fish that have like the light on? Yeah. Yeah. They have the bioluminescence. That's me, but in terrorism deep web forms. It's just so hard to disprove. I guess we have to take his word for it.

Well, I wish I could invite you in, but only one guy can get out of the deep web at a time. Oh, it's kind of like a pinhole. Yeah. Wow. That's so interesting. I would not know that. I've never been there. Yeah.

I mean, I'm there all the time. It's where I spend most of my time. Right. Deep web. Wow. I'm a deep webber. Hmm. Hmm.

Like a. Anywho. Grill. Yeah. Foreman. No. Webber. Because of.

Church Foreman. It's conversations over. The thing about him saying that he can monitor Islamic terrorists in the deep web is that he. I have an app. This up. Right. No one's going to bring us up.

But he can't read or speak Arabic. Well. Is that an issue? And we're lucky that they're using mostly English. The language I'm very fluent in. He spent really no time in the air world. He went there like for a few days here and there, but he's not like you would need to spend.

You're saying well, I would need to spend time. I don't. You don't even need to tell me that and I know nothing on this show, but I even I would know that to be an expert in this, he probably need a little more than a week. He's just an online guy. He's an online guy. So he. That's all he is.

Okay. Whatever. It's bullshit. Okay. Yeah. But. One agent, FBI agent called him quote the doogie houser of terrorism that fire that guy and this guy.

He looks really young. He is only like 24 when he starts out. So let's look at the reality of doogie houser. Would you let a 16 year old doctor open you up? No. No. Absolutely. No.

No. Okay. So there we go. So he's the doogie houser in the sense that nobody really should believe it. Sorry. Where's the doctor? He's right here. I don't know.

No. That kid's a virgin. No. That's not. What? This is the guy who's going to perform my appendectomy? That's right. Kelman's first trial is in 2006.

He testified that a Bangladesh political party was linked to terrorism. But when questioned by the defense attorney, he couldn't name any other political parties in Bangladesh. He had also never written anything before about the terrorist party that he was talking about. Didn't matter. The many testified against got 15 years. Jesus.

Then Kelman became, after that, after the conviction, he became an expert government witness. He says he has seven terabytes of terrorist information. Terrorist bites. Terrorist bites. No. It's just so easy, it's just too fucking easy. It's too easy. It's too easy to lie to us.

It's just too easy. He gets a wrong conviction for some stupid shit that he was wrong about. And then people are like, this guy's the Michael Jordan of terrorist terabytes. But it's the perfect grift because the information he has is so important that whatever defense attorneys ask for it, the judges won't turn it over because they're defending terrorists and they don't want to give them the information. Again, we are flawed. Jose's going bonkers.

Well, he doesn't like the story. A forensic psychiatrist and XCI agent said, Kelman is very selective with references, quote, basing them not on actual scholarly work, but on anecdotes from obscure references that he often has privileged access to, preventing other scholars from checking the content of reference. I mean, I'm going to shut up, but it's just that we have no interest in reality. I mean, that's what it is. We have no actual interest in reality, so of course, we're not going to nail it.

If the angle was, yeah, they want conviction. They want this. He's the perfect, yes, he's the perfect guy. It's the manufacturing consent shit. It's like if you, the reason why he's there is because he'll do the bidding. They have no interest in the person who is going to do the right thing. They have interest in the person who's going to do their thing. And that's just, and that's why, and that's why it is, and that's our complete business

model. So, good, good, good. So, a professor of international relations at the London School of Economics said, Kelman was in quote, the guilty verdict industry. Defense attorneys believe he is a hired hand who will say whatever is needed for the prosecution. He also began helping the FBI with investigations. So he's investigating and an expert. I mean, the driving instructor can't give you the test for your license.

It's just not how it is structured. New York magazine called him quote, the terrorist search engine, which he now uses on his website. Oh my God. The terrorist. His research, his research is not peer reviewed. He's like the Thomas the Tank terrorist. His main theory has all what he calls indicators that show someone is a homegrown terrorist or not, but he's never tested his theory against a control group.

So he's just got a list of shit that he says is true that's never been tested. A forensic psychiatrist called his claims quote, so biased, one-sided and contextually inaccurate that they do not provide a fair and balanced context for the specific evidence to be presented at a legal trial. He makes up to $400 an hour as a legal expert. Over 30 terrorist trials he has testified in have made him over $1.4 million. There it is. I mean, it's just that simple.

I mean, you know, I mean, again, you know, I mean, it's all, it's just how do you make your money? How do you make your money? How do you make your money? Yeah. He also works with private sector companies as a terrorism expert. And so this is the gentleman who testifies at the Duke history. There are times where, and I am, I, again, this is, this is not always, but there are

times where I've worked on shows, written on shows, and there will be someone who has an exceptional resume and is a terrible writer. And people have asked, how does that happen? Here's how that happens. The person was on a show that was popular, and they weren't helpful on the show, but it's on their resume. Then they go to another show, and the person says, oh, that popular show is on their resume. And they go to a good show.

Yes. They'll go to another good show. Because they were on a good show. And they'll go, oh, they were on that show. They'll go to the other show, potentially get fired after a couple of months because they're not good. But then that's on their resume. So those two shows will keep getting them good shows, building their resume, and they'll

keep getting hired because they have a good resume and are terrible at what they do. But because they have a good resume, they now can be hired. And that is what this is. This is the, you're checking these boxes that make it seem like you have an expertise at something, but in reality, there is no substance. But now this guy has $1.4 million, and is the terrorist search engine. And seven terabytes. And seven terabytes.

So he testifies at the Dukas trial. And he said the videos the brothers watched were, quote, some of Al-Qaeda's best work. This is their good shit. Look, I'm an expert, and when Al-Qaeda does their stuff, there's certain videos that are not great. You're like, hey, just put something in there. This is the top cream of the crop Al-Qaeda shit. This is certified.

This is rotten tomatoes, good. Five stars. This is really good. And because they watched them, watched the videos, it suggested, quote, a clear considered and present danger to the community. What are you talking? It's not the ring. Oh, my God.

And trying to buy guns and making angry comments about US foreign policy is evidence of jihadist activity. So then think of how many jihadists we have in America right now. Oh, my God. They're all jihadists. Right. Jihadists living in Texas right now. Yeah.

The jury deliberated for six days, found them all guilty of conspiracy and illegal gun possession. They could get up to 24 years. They could, but then the prosecutor asked the judge to apply what is known as a terrorist adjustment, which means the judge can give more time. What is the point then? What is the maximum? What the fuck?

Schnuer now writes the judge a note and he says that Dukas knew nothing about the plan and said he lied and was just boasting to Omar. And the judge at the sentencing said the lack of evidence didn't concern him. As a judge, it should say. I mean, that is so not judge. So as a judge, I just want to say that everything that I believe in is bullshit. Look, I'm kind of a hearsay judge. Welcome to nonsense court, judge who gives a fuck, honestly to say that I'm not the evidence

judge over here. No, I'm pretty sure your job's to. U.S. Attorney Ralph Mara, quote, the hatred and contempt these young men hold for America and the rule of law was made abundantly clear. Shane and Tony got life plus 30 years. Oh, my God. Elsevier got life. Chris Christie ran for governor in one.

He often said during his run, the Duke case was the highlight of his career and he would brag about it. But he eventually became a laughing stock and for being a petty idiot. So that worked out. Tony's five kids are growing up without a dad. Lada and Freak are raising them. Burim was the only one who was not charged because he was a teen, but he now had to drop out of school to get a job to help the family because there's the kids and the.

The Dukas are still believed they're under surveillance. One time agents came to the house and threatened to take away Burim. Freak quote, we lost so much and today we are barely surviving. We live with broken hearts. Shane is at a high security prison in Kentucky. Tony and Elvier are at the famous ADX supermass max prison in Colorado with the worst criminals in the country described as quote, a clean version of hell. They have spent time in solitary, which many countries consider torture.

Elvier is in isolation. They have never seen each other in the prison. The Dukas have exhausted all appeals. Muhammad Omar is struggling with his narking. He said Schnuehrer was part of the plot, but the Dukas are good people who were innocent quote. I still don't know why the Dukas are in jail because you're a fucking nark because you're a fucking nark.

Evan Coleman was a big part of the 2014 human rights watch report on bullshit terrorism prosecutions. Defense attorneys want to know what Coleman has been doing with the U.S. government, but his actions are classified. They view him as an advocate, not an actual academic expert, but judges refuse to let them reveal it at trial. With a long time friend, Evan Coleman started a risk intelligence firm called Flashpoint in 2021. Detect, prioritize, and remediate threats in a flash.

Flashpoint Intelligence combines data insights and automation to identify risks and stop threats for cyber fraud and physical security teams. His name has not been in the news as much lately as it was when these trials were really fought. Other people who have gone to jail due to FPM terrorism charges that seem like bullshit prosecutions have been going on for a while from the human rights watch report in 2014. According to multiple sources, nearly 50% of more than 500 federal counterterrorism convictions resulted from informant-based cases.

Almost 30% of those cases were sting operations in which the informant played an active role in the underlying plot. In the case of the Newbird 4, a judge said the government came up with the crime, provided the means, and removed all relevant obstacles and had in the process, made a terrorist out of a man, quote, whose buffoonery is politically Shakespearean in scope. And the FBI appears to have frequently targeted particularly vulnerable individuals with mental or intellectual disabilities. At least eight showed serious signs early on that they struggled with mental or intellectual

disabilities, diagnosed mental health problems, or significantly low intelligence or difficult comprehending basic concept. When Shawar Matin Sarai was asked by a narc to take part in attack, he said he had to ask his mother first. After his conviction, the first thing he asked for in prison was if he could play Pokemon. So I guess my point is, if you're looking for the FBI to save you from whatever you think, you know, January 6th was, they're not the guys. They are complete fuck ups.

They do this all the fucking time since the beginning of the FBI. They have been a shit show. They are a fucking disaster. And they are terrible, terrible fucking people. They aren't your friends. They're not the good guys. And while they were doing all this, they were ignoring white supremacists, because that's what they are.

Anywho, that's the story of the Fort Dix 5. Cheerio. Oh, dude, it's just like, you could, but let me just say this, you could literally do, we could do a dollop FBI and we could just sit here and do these hundreds of them. We could, and not just, not just Muslims are doing all kinds of people across the board. I mean, there's recent ones where, well, first and foremost, the United States foreign policy has done a great job of creating the problems that are coming home to roost at this point. But you look at this story, and does this story help stop people wanting to have a jihad?

It hinders it. It makes it so that what, this is, this is good recruitment. And this is from the people who are supposed to be stopping it. And so the CIA's job is basically, they're the international version of this. And then the FBI handles the domestic version of this. And most people, they think that these are two organizations that are there to help you. And that's why, you know, I mean, again, like, you know, I mean, it's all, it's just all totally fucked.

I mean, it is, it's all, it's, you know, I mean, look, this is the, this is the same organization that worked with the Chicago police to get one of the greatest minds and speakers of a generation, Fred Hampton, assassinated Martin Luther King, Jr. as well. I mean, you know, to, there's so many people that they have harmed. And the end. But by the way, they're also now the ones who will be like, you know, they'll like tweet out about Martin Luther King, Jr. Yeah.

And, you know, and, and they just get away with it. And so we just kind of live in this stasis where, you know, we will never be able to self-diagnose as the bad guy. Well, just imagine, so now you're at this point where you're facing, you know, fascism or terrible authoritarianism or whatever it is, and the people you want to rely on to help you are these guys. Yeah. No.

It's terrible. The whole system is fucked. That's the actual problem. The whole system is fucked. It's any, they work within the system that's fucked. So the idea that they're going to police and help us when it comes to the collapse of this system, you know, they're there to protect the property and the rich people. Yeah.

And, and, you know, they, you know, it's, I mean, this is essentially you're talking about racism. I mean, that's what this is. Yeah. I mean, that's what this comes down to. And you're, and you're, but you're able to get away with that racism because we as the, you know, white population in this country are so easily manipulated by it. Yeah.

You know. Well, we're scared little babies. Yeah. We're scared. And we, and again, like, you know, I mean, how are, you should be terrified, like, you should be terrified of white people in this, like, in this country. I mean, that is, I mean, I even like, you know, as I was recording like my special, there are like knocks on white people and I'm just like, I know the comments you're going to

see on fucking YouTube where it's just like, enough, dude, we get it, white people. But it is just like, look, it's a real problem, not because you're white, but because racism is just so, it just simplifies everything for white people in a way. You know, it's just really easy to scare a lot of white people in this country that, you know, different races are out to get you. And that is just, you know, that's just the reality. And so when you're pointing that out, it just makes white people uncomfortable. I mean, I, you know.

What these guys, what these guys remind me of is one of the best tweets I've ever seen. And it was Arab David who I think was, I think he was American, but he might have been British. But he said, you know, people keep telling us to deal with our own problem and take care of our terrorism problem. And I can't even get a girl to go out on a date with me. Like, that's it. They're just people living their fucking life. They don't have any connection to fucking terrorists.

They don't have any connection to this shit. Just like I don't have any connection to white supremacists. They're just people trying to live their fucking lives. That's all they are. And this is what happens. These guys just opened a pizza shop and wanted to, these guys literally are the perfect example of getting your shit together and taking care of yourself and making yourself a better person. That's what these guys are.

Making themselves better people, getting themselves out of a tough situation in Brooklyn and turning their lives around and having a fucking business, being small businessmen, everything you want from the fucking American dream. That's all these, that's all they were. Man. Yeah. Oh. Sources.

So most of this was a very, very good intercept article. Well, there's two intercept articles. One by Trevor Aronson called a terrorism experts secret relationship with the FBI. And you can guess who that one's about. That guy needs to be in jail. And the other one is by, I don't want to fuck up his name, Martaza Hasein and Razan Galeani. Yeah, I'm a white guy. So I bad wrote the pronunciations.

But they wrote a really, really great article in the intercept about the four takes five. And these guys just shouldn't be in jail, but you know, they've exhausted all their appeals. It seems pretty hopeless. And you know, America's not going to revisit a terrorism case, even though it is piles of bullshit. These are just guys like many people in our country. You know, I keep seeing people being like, China is always political prisoners. What the fuck do you think these guys are?

These are political prisoners. That's all they are. They got, they got thrown in jail for political fucking reasons because people are mad at 9 11, so they're just grabbing every Muslim dude that exists. Like that's the same fucking thing. Yeah. It's all the same shit. I hope everyone's happy.

City on a hill. City on a hill. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I, it's amazing to have no faith in anything anymore. It's like, it's like really difficult to like live, live in that. And I, like I was saying, like, you know, it just going, like driving everywhere has

just, it really has just made me be like, what are we so fucking proud of? Driving everywhere is scary. It's really so bad. Everything is. Yeah. And it's just like, you know, what are we like? And I'm not even like, it's not. It's, you know, I'm, it's not like being anti-American, like, but what, what are we,

what are we, what are we holding on to that is so amazing? The system is fucking trash. Everything. Well, Americans haven't lived anywhere else and only like 7% of them have gone outside the country. See, they don't know that it's like you have much more, much more freedom. Yeah. I know.

Like semi socialist Denmark. No. That you do here. I have, I have. Far more freedom. I talk about it this new hour and it's like, it is, you just, it's just so American to consider it to be the best country in the world and to have never gone to another one. It's, it is the worst G seven country.

Right. It is. It's, although it's Russia G seven. No, hell no, it's not. It's not. But yeah. It's like a UN delegation came over like seven years ago and they went through Alabama and they were shocked.

Yeah. They were. It was it looked like a third world country. Yes. Yes. And we, but if you say that, you hate America. Yeah. And it's getting to the point where you're like, okay, so what?

Yeah, I don't care. I mean, it's, it's, it's becoming, you know, you, we are married to the drunk who abuses us and we are just like, leave it. Don't talk about it like that. What you deserve better. It's not, it, you deserve better. We deserve better anyway. We'll be a chuckles yuckel factory.

Any who's will be. Well. There you go. Uh, Pete's out, Pete's out, Pete's out.