The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 565 - Dean Kamen and It

Episode Date: January 3, 2023

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine inventor Dean Kamen and his not world changing invention. Sources Tour Dates Redbubble Merch   Squarespace  

When you're staying at an Airbnb you might be like me wondering could my place be an Airbnb and if it could what could it earn? You could be sitting on an Airbnb and not even know it. That in-law sweet guest house where your parents stay only part-time Airbnb it and make some money the rest of the year whether you could use a little extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. I don't care I'm not gonna edit this I'm just gonna you know throw it up and just I don't yeah I don't care anymore so

it'll just be whatever it is you know. What's going on? I stopped New Year's resolution. You know how our podcast is just I would describe it as barely perfect like not even professional just completely amateurish? We're going lower. We're going lower. We're taking it down. We're taking it down. Don't love it. So so no editing whatsoever they just be whatever the sound is the sound is whatever the video is the video is and it's called keeping it real we're gonna keep it real. Okay so that's what the podcast is from now on and a lot of people right now are saying that's what it always was and I'm saying to them I

can make it worse. Okay cool that's awesome. I've heard your complaints and we're going in the other direction. Okay other direction I'm gonna sink this boat 2023 let's sink this boat. Alright let's calm down a lot let's calm down a lot. Okay right now. We're taking the boat down. No hope everyone had a good New Year. This will be great. We're excited to keep stepping it up and called it quote his jam patch. I'm the fucking hippo guy. My name's Gary. Wait is it for fun? And this is not gonna come with Tiggly Pod. Okay. Now hit him with a puppy. You both present sick arguments. No sleep though hippo. Actually partner. Hi Gary. No.

I sleep done my friend. No. No. Ronda. Ronda in the car. We are brought to you in part by Squarespace. What is Squarespace? Squarespace of course is a website domain online store marketing tools analytics all in one the whole ball of wax. They're not kidding around over there. They're doing a whole thing. Gareth and I are fully invested and in love and in business with Squarespace. Gareth has his website on Squarespace. I have my website on Squarespace and then of course we have the dollop podcast.com where you can go and click on the link to get tickets for our upcoming online live

reverse dollop on January 19th. January 12th. January 12th. And so I don't yeah I'm telling you it's all going down. So Squarespace is where you can get all that information. So if I mess it up here on the audio or video portion of what you're consuming you can go to our Squarespace website and find it. We also have our sources all in Squarespace. So we're all in. We're very entwined with Squarespace. Some people say that we share fallopian tubes. So from websites online stores to marketing tools analytics Squarespace is the all-in-one platform to build online presence or just have a business you want to do. You

just want to be like hey we got engaged and here's where we want you to send our presence. Anything like that because getting engaged is all about. It's a grift. Like when you said that you were going to take the quality of the showdown I didn't believe you. So far it's been an absolute nightmare. Squarespace has a world-class design. I first started working with Squarespace because the templates look great and it was super easy to use which is the key to a dummy like me. Gotta be super easy to use. There's no updates you have to do. It's all taken care of. You just go in and and find the template you want and off you

go. It's nothing upgrade ever. So they also have 24-7 award-winning support which I love. So here's what you are gonna do and by you I don't mean Gareth. I mean the people listening. You go to squarespace.com slash dollop for a free trial and when you're ready to launch use the offer code dollop to save 10% on your first purchase of a website or domain. Gareth, if you did that, if you did that that would be violating our contract. You don't get to save 10%. Any clue? I bet if I was in the same room with you I'd smell alcohol. Why isn't my dad here? Oh no, you killed him.

It's just a bad start to the year. I thought we were just gonna have fun. We're coming in low. It's pretty bad. 2023. We're coming in low. It's pretty bad. It's been a nightmare. As you mentioned David, we do. We have a live virtual show January 12th with Moments. You can go to moment.com slash the dollop or reverse dollop apollod. I'm at some point I've got to figure out what I'm gonna do. So it'll come to me. So join us for that. We are gonna add a guest. I guess I should say who we're adding. May as well do it now, right? Yeah, do it. Yeah, so my mother will join us. Oh my god, my mother is also joining us. Bonnie. This is a

nightmare. So my mother will join us for this. It is at 6 p.m. Pacific time but again as always it's available for like two a week or so afterwards I think. I think it's one week. So you don't have to watch it live but you can watch it live and if you really want to watch it live I would recommend doing the Bill O'Reilly. We'll watch it live. That's a great freak out. It still holds up. Also Dave, I'm getting back out there ready to party. I will be at the Detroit House of Comedy on January 27th Friday at 7 30 p.m. Two shows January 28th that Saturday same place Detroit House of Comedy. I will be at East Providence Road Island at the

Comedy Connection January 29th January 30th I'll be at the Hartford Funny Bone and then January 31st I'll be in West Nyack, New York at Levity Live. You can go to garethrenalds.com for ticket information. I will be asking people to still wear masks at these shows. I know people really don't care for that policy. I'm gonna make a prediction. I'm gonna say come February people are gonna be super into wearing masks because I would like to introduce you to my friend xbb1.5 also known as the Kraken or the US variant and it's having a ball baby. I am I'm gonna be a part of it so I'm getting it early so

so yes that's I'm asking I'll have masks the hand out at those shows and all that shit but that would be great if you would do that but anyway go to garethrenalds.com for ticket information. We also have another podcast which is called the pastimes which is like the dollop but just us going through a newspaper with a guest and it's pretty funny and people seem to like it. It's on the dollop feed you can listen to that. For people who who are like I don't want to hear a depressing one or whatever you can always listen to the pastimes because they're just yeah it is just good time

Charlie's there's not it's just total nuts insanity and there's not there's not really much to keep track of. My mother said she when she listened the first one she liked it better but she still doesn't listen so I don't know what that means. And my mom told me this week I should become a professional photographer and I said I have a job and she said well you're just very good with photographs and I said honestly I just took a picture of waves and then she started telling me I could go around the country taking pictures. That's one of my favorite things on Seinfeld is how his parents are always kind of

recommending new jobs for him. They're like this Bloomingdale's managerial program that could be good for you so you're getting that. It's a good time to start a new profession. I'm like when can I retire and not do anything anymore and my mom's like what about a different job. Get out there get out there. Start a new craft. Start a new business. Use Squarespace. Oh and if you want to watch us do this I have a hood on Dava's beanie on. Go to our Patreon you can join. Yeah that's where you can join up and watch all the fun. April 5th 1951 year of our Lord Jesus Christ or as he is known in Peru the Magic Man. It's

getting dumber. Yeah it's not getting less dumb. Dean Kamen was born on the Long Island New York. No I'm not going to lie. Do you know what it is? I mean maybe. His dad was an illustrator for magazines like Mad Magazine. Dean was brilliant from the get go in the seventh grade. Now I don't. In the seventh grade a math teacher thought he was cheating because he did all the work in his head. So he wouldn't put it on the paper. He'd just be like the answer is this. School boredom. He was just bored by how stupid it was. He once told friends he would get exactly. See that's like me without the element of being able to do

the stuff in my head. Correct. Correct. Yeah I was bored because I was like I don't even want to use a calculator for this. Yeah. No he's bored for being too smart. He once said it was easy to get A's so he told his friends he was going to get exactly the score of 57 on a math test and he did. Now that I've done. But not on purpose. No no but I've called my shot. I've been like I'm going to fail this pretty hard. Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah. In high school he got into semiconductors and super transistors as a lot of us did. Uh huh. Yeah. Now he made a light box that pulsed with music. Sure. So he was working for a contractor

that was doing business with the museum and there's a planetarium there and he asked if he could redo the light system for the planetarium and they were like get the fuck out of here. No you're 16 years old and he did it anyway. Wow. And then it was amazing and soon he had a one-man lighting system business. Wow. That can be you. That can be you with your photography thing. Yeah. If you just kind of put your mind to it a little bit. Yeah. Give it a shot. Right. Good big guy. I'm gonna be the guy who photographs fog. So they're all gray. Stupid business like it's what you see. It's what you want to see in the fog. Bad

business model. So it's just different grays. That's gonna be the name of my art show. Different grays. David Gray. So he's 16 16 years old and he's making $60,000 a year. And again this is like in the late 60s. Okay. So he goes to Worcester Polytechnic Institute but he just sat in class in classes. He would just go to different classes to hear what he wanted here instead of going to the classes he was supposed to go to. Okay. He would like sit in. I mean I want to hear this this physics lecture and he would go to that instead of history or whatever. Okay. So he had this he had this Cordis the the medical

device company. He had a job with them like putting on for like a conference or whatever and something went wrong with the light box and he it's the last minute save the day and the founder was very impressed with him and invited him to breakfast the next day and he'd said all you because most of your employees are idiots. And and the guy is like impressed with them because who says that? He's like Val Kilmer and real genius where it's like you're like hey smart but he's like he doesn't care. It's all of it's very attractive. Yeah it's great how he has he just hates every he's mean I guess. Is it mean? Yeah. He just does what

he wants. He's cocky. He's cocky. I think when you're super smart everyone else seems like ants and you can't you don't even know how to talk. Well I don't know. I mean I don't view it like that but I definitely like I think you know you you just you find it difficult to walk amongst you others. Yeah I think it's like it's like this podcast. Yes it's very much like this podcast. It's very much like it's it's difficult at times but I figure it out. Yeah like you're like like you're. Yeah I figure out how to be around you. Yeah you're an ant. No no you're an ant. So this guy's really into him and the guy goes out to visit Dean in New York when

he's there and goes to Dean's house and Dean's like you should see my lab and Dean happens to be working on a device that automatically delivers IV doses at exact intervals. Because up until this point nurses would have to do it and so Dean invents a machine to free up the nurses and the IV just does it automatically. Helpful helpful. So it's it's the first drug-infused pump at 20 he sells them at $2,000 each and he starts hiring employees. He goes to the school that he the polytechnic student and like lures away. Right lures away the smart people and yeah he was like learning away workers and and he

created professors like I'd like you to come work for me like yeah okay get this shit job so then he he creates the first portable insulin pump and so he's rolling in money still living in his parents house but has a large business but he doesn't like paying New York state income tax. Nice here we go. As all these all these guys are like this all these guys like why can't we just have all the money? How do you have no how are you so smart but you absolutely cannot understand society? Well because we live it's also but it's also you're just like I'll create a perfect world for myself and the rest of you can go fuck

yourselves. It's like well the part of it is like let's all live in a world where everybody can get a little bit of the action. Yeah but it's also but also they don't realize like you are getting stuff because like you know how there's no marauders on the highway that you have to fight to get home? Yeah. That's because you live in a society. Yeah yes yeah like the the deal is this you'll pay taxes and then the people who don't have as much money as you they'll try they'll probably won't kill you. Probably won't kill you. So he moves to he then he sees he sees a license plate a New Hampshire license plate with the slogan live free or die

and he's like that oh that's my place I'm a live free or die guy so he moves everything to New Hampshire. Cheap land. That really puts a dent in my theory that those license plates have never swayed anyone with their slogans about anything. Which is how I thought it was before where you're like yeah whatever it's just stupid. That's why I moved to Virginia because I thought it was for lovers. Yeah yeah and that's why I moved to Delaware because on the license plate it says. Yeah but oh no Delaware's is like do you want to be a bank? So he yeah he moves there it's it's no no state income tax cheap land a lot of

unemployed people and then the business is there for a while and then at 31 he sells the business for $30 million. Jesus Christ. This is this is where you don't hear from me. This is why it wouldn't be a story because you'd be like none this guy. And then he was gone. Then he would. I would 100% they'd be like he lives on a beach yeah what does he do. He domesticated a family of monkeys who he lived in. So he's loaded he buys a helicopter at a plane he learns not to fly him. He buys an island off New York. Nice off New York. Come on go further. Yeah right. Yeah. He called it North Dumpling. And he referred to himself as Lord

Dumpling. Dave we're starting to get some of those little details. He wrote a constitution. You could do better. You could do better. You can do a lot better but again we're now we're just getting a I'm sorry how terrible a sense of humor. Sorry sorry you were just starting to say that he wrote a constitution. Constitution. Uh-huh. That's correct. He put his family and friends in cabinet positions. So it's like it's like what a kid does when they pretend they're running a bank at like six. Yes. Yeah he thinks it's hilarious. Okay. He had ministers of brunch and nepotism. So by the way if you're if you're keeping

track this is where I hate him. This is where I absolutely. It's getting tough to hang in there. I yeah these are these are the kind of whimsical fun shit that Silicon Valley people do that makes me not like anything about them. Right. Yeah. Secretary brunch. You have a bunch of money. Does not make you interesting or funny. It's Dave. I you say that but then we've all seen it recently. Yeah. No you're right. Musk. You can be really rich and really really funny. I mean he's really funny. Oh my god. Guy's so good. Oh. He made Ben and Jerry the ministers of ice cream. Okay. It's really stupid now. Did they respond in any way. I think well

he's big in New Hampshire. So maybe they do them. Yeah. He probably knew them. He had currency with the value of pie. I'm out. I'm fucking out. I don't even get like I don't even understand what I mean. You don't get it. Gary. So his per dollar is like three point one board. Gary. Fuck yourself. I'm sorry. I'm thrown off by everything. It's infinite. Pie is infinite. Can you see the fun he's having. Can you see the fun. Do you mean the currency. It's an infinite dollar. I hate him and I hate you. I'm starting to hate you. When he hands that to someone and tells him and they they giggle for hours. It's so fun. I'm pissed at you now. He would

only go to the island a couple times a year because really it was just a bug out place in case everything went south. He buys a bunch of vacant brick buildings on the Merrimack River in New Hampshire and creates a research and development company called Dica D. E. K. A. For the first two letters of his first name and the first two letters of his last name Dica. Okay. He he's a very big deal in small New Hampshire. The union leader wrote a story about him because he shaved his beard. I got an uncle who lives in a really small town in England and my uncle is like six eight and he makes the paper like every four months. There's

like there's like there's always something. It's like the story is like the giant is coming. It's like one was about how he ripped through his shoes. Another was about how he went to America and he got a bunch of new shoes. There was just like do you know stuff where you like it would be like in the 1400s like the really tall guy in your city. You'd be like there's that big like that's what they're dealing with over there. Well no it's terrifying especially to the English because they're all really really little people. They're all under five five mostly. That's not true. Oh no I forgot about the teeth with the teeth

they're about five six. Come out of the top of their head. Doesn't even make sense. In 1989 Dean and other guys started first for inspiration and recognition of science and technology. So he hates he hates how our society values sports and all the emphasis and attention to sports and he wants to to have brains celebrated. This has been like the like I've seen I've seen nerdy stand-ups do bits about this where but it's it's like there's always something stupid that replaces sports you know like and I even get that to so I'm like a little fed up of sports being so distracting in our society but normally

like you know then then I'll be like all right well what's your pitch and then then I'll hear like well like if a wookie were to and I'm like I very stupid to also very stupid. No I always love the guys that are like online and like oh you guys watching sports and then they do like 10 comic book. Yeah it's like we all feel like that doesn't help at all. Yeah exactly it's like there's you're gonna fill it with something equally stupid. So it's basically a robot sort of competition thing to replace sports in schools and it's successful like kids get into it and it's a whole thing and it becomes you know nationwide thing it's

you know it's great it's actually really good but he'd always be into first that was always his thing he's always pushing first for the rest of his life. Sure. So Dean wants his engineers at Dika to really take big big swings to just fail in absurd ways because moon shots we call them moon shots. Yeah moon shot he wants massive moon shots. One day he's watching a guy in a wheelchair having a really hard time getting up over a curb. By the way that guy is like hey cool having fun. Hey how about a little help? Fascinating. He can't get up it. Look at you not go. Wow. He can't get up though for that curb. And instead of being like well they should have like a little thing that goes down like lower the curb there. He says I gotta reinvent the wheelchair. So he buys every wheelchair patent from the past hundred years. What the fuck. What. Bold. Bold. I just thought something you would like that just not something I think you like if you hear someone say that yeah good luck with that and then to actually be able to get every wheelchair

patent. Yeah. Okay. And then one day he was getting out of the shower and he slipped but somehow maintained his balance didn't fall and he thought well that's the kind of balance a wheelchair should have. That should be like we have it in us so it should be in a wheelchair. Sure. Yeah. In July 1992 his company created a balancing table on two wheels and then they started working to get it to be able to climb stairs. So basically it's like it's like it learns how not to fall it's like a not fall table on wheels. Okay. And now he's like well we got to get to go upstairs. So the working on that he shows it to a friend and his friend's like okay so this is like noble prize winning thing. Don't let anybody know about it like keep it secret. So he locks it down. He locked it totally locked down. No one can know about it. One day they're working on it and it does like what they described as a Roomba dance. It's all getting a little kooky. It's getting a little kooky now. Okay. So what is a Roomba dance. I don't know. It's like a little shaky shaky. It's like Roomba. I've not had a ton of interactions with Roombas but I've never seen them dance. Well Roomba is a dance. Oh I'm thinking of like the little vacuum. You're talking about like the actual right. Okay. I thought you were like giving me a. All right. So it does a little way because I want Google to know my house layout. Yeah. No. But believe me they're like it's just amazing. Everything we invite into our houses. It's like yeah. And it just needs to listen to all your thoughts and all your phone calls. Wait. I just need something to clean up like dust.

No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also. This thing will know your world. Is that sound good. And a lot of it can be used in court. Does that sound okay. We'll be able to use and the police are able to listen to it and use it against you. You mean clean up my cat hair. Yes. It's like having a meticulous made spy. I don't. I just want the house floor clean. That's all I'm looking for. Absolutely. And it'll clean the floor and it'll also recognize any domestic issues you have with your wife and any misgivings you have as far as the way anything you do as far as illegal activities or things you don't like or things you do like. Sometimes we'll just be advertising at keep in mind it does rugs and it's going to be able to find its way into the corners of your room. It knows and it goes under couches. Yeah. Oh good. And then if you ever try to come at us we will eliminate you with the power we've gained. Wait you're a vacuum company. Yeah. We are a vacuum company that specializes in taking over you and ideally everyone you know and the world. So I gotta say I really like I like clean floors. It's going to be great. You're going to love this. So because it does this little dance they nickname it Fred as in Fred Astaire. That's the that's what they name the machine. So they got it pretty soon to be able to walk upstairs. So it's got like two wheels so the wheels like four wheels right two on each side so it like goes up like that.

So it like it cost a lot of money to this point. And Dean's now like I got to get investors. We start starts looking. There's a video of one investor sitting on Fred while smoke smoke pours out of the bottom and someone off camera going Sir maybe you should get off now. Again if you didn't know that Fred was some sort of robotic wheelchair it sounds a lot funnier. OK so he's sitting on Fred smokes coming out of the ass and people like hey get off it and he's like look at this. Hey it's fun. So Johnson and Johnson ends up coming on board as the main funder. They're going to fund the thing. OK. After signing a bunch of Johnson and Johnson execs go to look at Fred and they get a little demo and then they they're leaving the building and they're walking outside when Fred has a part break and then Fred goes bug fuck. And so they they look back because Fred has slammed an engineer into the window. I will kill you. Give me if I love you. And then it starts begging against the glass like it like it wants to break through to get at the executive. So now they're like I'll tell you I did. I did love the demo. But now that it's trying to break through glass and I believe kill us I'm getting what I'd call cold feet. Can we not have a murder chair. I should point out that one of the kinks we're working out is that the Fred will try to murder.

Oh no that's not what we wanted. Well good to know. We can get out. Can we take out the murder part and then just have the the wheelchair. Unfortunately the guy who was really good at that software has been murdered by Fred inside. Oh so let's do a thing where we rip up the contract and we get our money. Oh I don't think Fred's going to like that. OK never mind. So one engineer starts. He starts standing up on Fred's little table platform thing and surfing around the lab. Is that this is not right. This is not on the hill. This is just a separate day. The sun's gone up. OK. It's a new count. A couple of calendar pages calendar days have gone blown off. He starts doing this all the time like he's having fun surfing around the lab. And then they're like wait this this could actually be something besides a wheelchair. So they make a smaller lower version of Fred to stand on. They put a little handlebar on it. If you lean forward it goes forward. If you lean back it stops.

Oh my god. I was wondering when you get it. OK OK. And they call they call it ginger. So it's Fred and ginger. Fred's where the money is. Right. So they work on that during office hours and off hours. They're all they all work on Fred. So Fred is now a ginger you mean ginger. Yeah. So Fred is now a year behind schedule way over budget. Dean is actually a problem because someone would come up with a new idea and Dean would tell them to go for it. Even though it would take them way off schedule. OK. And one change would cause everything else to change in the way Fred was working. Right. So it's total. It's chaos. Fred has burned through 50 million and they need another 50 million. Oh shit. This started like as a great. This was like a great moment. He's like that guy can't get on the curb. And I could fix that. And here we are like that's I mean it's gotten a little cocky now is like look we did a hundred hundred billion dollars.

A hundred billion dollars to make this. Come on man relax. You did a hundred bill. So Johnson Johnson had Dean take Fred public on Dateline and people go nuts for it like people on wheelchairs like what the fuck I need this. Right. So Dean hired he had now Dean hires a group just to work on ginger. He's like I need a separate ginger group. Sure. Because right now that's all off hours but now he's going to make it legit. But again total secrecy. He thinks that ginger is going to kill off cars and quote if these huge organizations get wind of the project they could use their massive resources to erect obstacles against us. I prefer I prefer to hide from the Giants as long as we can. Now Dave this quote is weird. This is a weird little quote. So he's like ginger will eliminate cars but the government or the powers that be will probably start putting things in the way of ginger.

Well he's he's saying the car companies will use the government to put stuff in the way. Sure. Like walls or posts or make it illegal or make it right. OK. And OK. And everyone's like I mean should we just finish a limit. I mean the problem is that he thinks it's going to eliminate cars. That is that is the problem. That is the main problem because it's just people are always going to want the comfort of a little room window options. You got stuff being able to control the temperature. Things like that like that will be. I think people really enjoy. Yes. So that that's what's going on in his head. He hires engineers without telling them what they're working on. And a CEO. Tim Adams is hired. Tim was an ex president of Chrysler Europe.

Takes a 50 percent pay cut because he's seeing ginger and he's like this is crazy. I'm so good. Now Dean needs investors for ginger obviously. Sure. He's Dean is actually a natural salesman. He's really good at selling things. But it's when people see ginger that they truly lose their mind. When an investor was on it Dean would push them hard in the chest and say see it automatically compensates. When someone was on it he would push them hard in the chest. Oh to sort of show that it kind of gives you the balance. Yeah. You're not following. It's also a bit intimidating weird. Yeah. Yeah. It's strange.

He he here's the thing that Dean is asking for investors but he wants to give up barely any of the company. So he wants like you can have a percent for 30 million dollars. So no one's going for that. So he asks supply companies. Right when he's like we got to get supply companies for this. He wants them to eat the cost of making their products. So instead of him just going like I want 500 springs and I'll pay for them. He's going you guys make the springs and then when it starts selling right we'll all make money together. Right. Which is different. They're like that sounds like a lot of bullshit.

But he's like well this is going to change the world. So you want in on it. Yeah. But by the way I mean it sounds crazy. But I mean I could easily see people being like I mean if you think about what just happened with what the fuck is Sam Bankman Fried or whatever. I mean these people like I could see you could see these people being like I mean look we do not want to let this opportunity pass. Right. If you're like there is this wheeled motorized device that will take you pretty much anywhere you want to go. You're like this guy's good. He's good. But they again he's not telling them that they haven't seen it. The suppliers don't know what it is. He's just like it's going to change. I've got the car killer. I'm going to kill the American car.

The car killer. You meet Truckasaurus. And he's like do you want to be in on a world where you could have made billions of dollars by making the model salesman. Yes. He's the monorail salesman. By the way don't get me started on the monorail in Los Angeles. So good. It's the worst. The plan is they're going to do it. And it's literally like saying what if we don't have public transportation in Los Angeles. Anyway. Yes. But we pay for it. I watch this. I watch this 35 minute video of a guy breaking down how bad it is. And you're just like they're going to do this. And it's it's catastrophically bad.

OK. Anyway. Yeah. So he he's talking to the suppliers and they haven't seen it. But he he looked he's like once I sell you're all going to get rich. We're all going to get rich. He's not really he's not really a normal guy. His dad called him a human irritant. You mean the secretary of brunch. That's right. He called him a human irritant speech. Dean is Dean is one of those guys who doesn't eat breakfast or lunch because they're quote to bothersome. And yet he has it. He has a minister of brunch.

Yeah. Well yeah. I mean that guy's not doing his job properly. So the CEO wants to hire a supply consultant to deal with the supply companies that Dean is clearly being a problem with. But Dean's like I don't want to spend the fifty thousand that that would cost. In late December every year Dean would give his employees what was known as Dean's State of the Union. He would discuss the projects are being worked on this year. They all had problems. They're all sucking up money. There's no money coming in really. It's just a lot of money sucking.

If we've seen in our government that that doesn't mean you can't give a hell of a state of the Union speech. That doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how much you're hemorrhaging. You're just like we're like crushing it. Everyone's like yeah. So rumor was that that there weren't going to be any bonuses this year. And again this is Dean owns this company. It's not a public company. So most of if you're an engineer for most of the companies you're getting stocks. And you're part of the machine and hopefully you'll get rich.

But Dean gets the royalties and then he gives out bonuses. So that's actually a problem because other companies are luring engineers with stocks. And Dean's cheap. His mom is still the bookkeeper. Wow. Poor person. I mean what a she's probably like damn. He's getting a little complicated. He's like no. Ginger's a separate entity. Mom you got ginger and Fred what mom.

No mom that's the island and not the factory. I don't want to do this. This is not. I'm not capable of it. Mom. Mom. I don't. I will unchain you when you're done with this year's numbers. I will. Your mother. I don't enjoy this role. Mom run them again. Run the numbers again. It took me five days to figure out what they were.

I don't want to do this. OK. I was much happier as the snack secretary. That's a role I felt more comfortable in. I'm going to start withholding food. OK. No. But this is your father the secretary of brunch was the you. This is unbelievable. OK. I'll just look through some of these numbers again your majesty. Thank you mother.

So. He gives this. Speech the speech this year. Last two hours and 40 minutes. For fuck's sake. OK. Right now I like I like struggle even imagining that. Right. Like again there's probably engineers who are super into it but there's also like janitors and a secretary. They don't give a shit. Look there's people who are into the Lord of the Rings being two hours and 40 minutes.

That's a two hour fucking movie. Cut the fat. Nothing needs to be two hours and 40 minutes. There's nothing at the end of this speech. He says he is going to give bonuses but then he had to mortgage his house to get the money for the bonuses quote. So to the people grumbling I want you to stop to the people not enthusiastic. I want you to get over it and the people who want to sleep on a bear skin rug had better make sure the bear is dead first. Hey. The last part.

I'm throwing in things that don't make sense. Don't sleep on living bears. It's so silly. It's such a Silicon Valley bro. A hundred percent. Just I'm sacrificing everything for you people. Yeah. Yeah it's such a it's such a personalized sacrifice bullshit narrative. I had to pay for the wood for my crucifix. He has a helicopter in a plane in a mansion.

Yeah but it's that those things cost a lot. So Dean a couple months later it goes out to give a Ted talk in California and meets a huge VC guy. Great who's maybe the biggest I think now is considered the biggest VC guy who John Doar. He had funded at this point compact Netscape Amazon son micro systems and a bunch of others. OK. So he won't tell the guy what it is. Guy flies out. That that is an amazing that's that it's only in the super rich circles is that going to work.

Right. It's like I can't tell you what it is. You're like I'll fly anywhere. What is it. Well he was like like he saw the wheelchair and he was amazed by the wheelchair because the wheelchair is amazing. But then he's like I had this other thing and the guy's like what is it. He's like he's got a flat and then he's like you got to sign an NDA and the guy's like I don't sign NDAs. I'm rich motherfucker.

I don't do that. And he's like well you gotta. So the guy ends up doing everything that Dean wants and he sees just a glory hole. Pretty cool huh. There's another person behind that that'll suck you off. I need two point one billion dollars. Now put your wiener through it. This is amazing.

Yeah. And you call this and you call this a rest stop. Yes. This is yeah you'll stop here when you want snacks or to ejaculate. OK. I like it. Oh he's pulling the sitcom thing where he's got to go to the other side. Let me just go prod the employee.

I'll be right back. So on Dorsey's ginger he he loses it quote Dean we've done more dot coms than anyone. I never thought I'd see something in my life as big as the Internet as far as making a difference. And I just saw it. Wow. This is Internet big. Yeah. And this guy's this guy's company is the biggest.

He's a partner in the biggest VC company. So yeah. So two months after giving his big speech about everything's hard people are now begging to fund ginger. They start kicking on names for ginger. Look let's stop talking about Fred and let me shift gears into talking about ginger. I guess there's no easy transitional line just some way to sort of shift from topic to topic just a way to. We're talking about one thing but I want to transition into a new one. But I would love to do it by being able to connect two dots and have it seem sort of linear while it is indeed a shift.

Some sort of segmented discussion that we could potentially move forward in the dialogue in a way without feeling like we've stopped or given up momentum. New topic. No. We're close. There's also PEDX Glideator. PEDX you know let's make it sound like when a pedophile moves into the neighborhood and has to go door to door. Yes. Hi I'm with PEDX I just wanted to let you know I'm less than a bunch of children and now I live on your block.

We're with PEDX this is Ralph he loves to fondle children and now he lives four houses down. Hi. Yes so we're not going to go with PEDX. Okay. So nothing sticking ginger they can't use because the church of Christ scientists partly controlled ginger Rogers estate and her name. Wow. Okie dokie. We just live in the dumbest world.

We've made all these things that are so dumb. Why can't these stupid rich bros who are trying to come up with a wheeled transportation that will eliminate cars use the word ginger. Because of Christ. So others talk Dean others the company talk Dean into bringing in marketers and at the first meeting Dean told them they didn't know what they were doing and they needed to think creatively but cheaply. So he flies to California for meeting that door sets up and at a private dinner the night before Steve Jobs is there and jobs rides ginger around not wanting to give anyone else a chance to write it and if someone got on it for a second jobs and tell them to get off right after. So jobs is. Jobs wants it on him he wants to invest. Uh huh.

So Dean Dean's now he's getting he's been getting angry at the marketing guys because they they were taking out to test that they were taking out scooters and EVs and mini cars to see how people react to those things because they couldn't take ginger out in public because he wants it secret. Right. So the guys who have to market it and come up with all the stuff are like I don't know what to take out a scooter. Right. And so Dean gets mad he's like it's not a scooter. It's not a car. We can't tell anyone what it is. At one point he pounded on a table and said quote we are an electric pedestrian.

It's not a vehicle. It's an alternative to walking. We can't let them call us a scooter. Okay. So. You said a lot of crazy things. We are machine. We are motorized walking.

So we are we are legs. So Steve Jobs is exactly what he wants. Right. Celebrity right all that stuff. He wants to get it in celebrities hands and in mayor's hands for like to the police lab and places like Disney big company. So he doesn't have to pay for marketing. They're just seeing everywhere and people like them. So Steve Jobs is bugging Dean about investing in ginger.

And Dean flies back out to California to have dinner with jobs at his house. And Dean is like you got to fire your CEO. He's got to go. He's behind the times. He doesn't know what's going on. Wow. And he also says ginger's design is terrible and I will be involved to fix the design and jobs like I'm offering 25 million. Dean doesn't say yes.

Wow. And he goes back and a few days later job offers 50 million. Oh my God. So at this point he all the offers he's gotten he's gotten offers of 135 million for 27 percent of the company. Now that means he would own 7 to 3 percent. It's a good amount. But he doesn't want to give up 27 percent. He wants to give up like weight like 15 or 20 or 20 is too much.

So he's not doing it. It's it's amazing because if you're thinking like if you really believe what you're doing is going to get rid of cars. Seventy three percent of that. Yes. Company is going to be more money than you or any of your relatives will ever be able to spend. Yeah. You should you should be like I'll take it all the way up to I get 51 percent. Like that's what that should be your line.

I still control the company. Dude I'd be like give me 10 percent. I'm out of here. I have an island. This is crazy. It's actually north dumbling. But yes an island. I'm sorry.

Lord dumpling. So he does not respond to these offers and job offers 63 million. Door offers 50. And this is right after the dot com bus. So no one's investing. Ginger is now valued at six hundred and thirty million dollars. Wow. And then there's Apple stock goes down like 10 percent and jobs is like I'm out.

I'm pulling out. I don't have the time. And so but he does say I will be an unofficial advisor. So it's the perfect thing because he doesn't want to give up any controller percent to jobs. But now he's got jobs brain. Yeah. And and he's going to help. I was like I was to help.

Yeah. He's like I want to help design it like it's what you would want for free. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Despite the misgivings of however people you feel about Steve Jobs as far as like if he's like let me help you design your you'd be like yes.

Yeah. I would like you to help me decide this. So Dean has not told any of this to a CEO. So the CEO has no idea when or how much money is coming which is a problem because his job is to plan and budget what they're going to do. Yeah. It feels like he doesn't want to see. Yes.

Every decision has to be run past Dean. So the CEO can't make decisions. Sure. And the CEO said they need a procurement guy for 200,000. They've got a higher procurement guy. And he's like no let's just find someone young and smart for thirty five thousand dollars. Wow. Man.

The CEO is like OK that's not at all how it works. You're about to do really big sales. You need a really big guy to deal with this. And also Dean's warehouse land is not right for a big factory. You can't have a big parking lot and then everything's too close together for shipping and all that. So the CEO is going around looking for locations in the area to build a factory and Dean just keeps saying no to every single one saying it's too far away or too expensive.

And every time they every day they aren't starting the factory the more the production schedule is going to get super squeezed. Nice. So it's all fucking up the future right. So the marketing firm is not sending over names twenty at a time. And Dean just shits on all of them. He really went off on Blue Wagon. Blue Wagon.

I have to agree with him. The horrendous Blue Wagon horrendous but I mean here's the thing right. Like I remember when we when we had an MTV show and they wanted the title and the working title was epic fail was like the title we were like we can't do that. And so you float out your three favorite ones and then they're like no it can't be that or there's like some legal issue or something like that. And then you send a list of like 30 and you probably like eight. And the one that they and then we had on their philosophy and they were like we love that

one. And we were like oh god. No we hate that one. We hate that one. But like you are just throwing a bunch of shit just to be like look what anything here. And then I mean so it is so you're going to have your blue wagons. But it's a really bad one. I used to write with a writing partner and we would put in a terrible joke in a script

a terrible joke to see if the executives how they would react to it. And you knew if they loved it that they had a terrible sense of humor. And that happened a lot. So a dean was really mad at the marketing firm. He said quote we couldn't think of names ourselves so we paid some clown seventy thousand dollars to do it. He wanted a name that told the story like the two he kind of liked were relay or standing wave standing way is also terrible.

It's sitting ways terrible standing ways terrible. So they finished the first model and Dean spoke to everybody quote I have no doubt at this I have no doubt at all that this will revolutionize the world. And then he sprung in circles and he said quote the impact of this in the 21st century will be just like what Henry Ford did at the beginning of the 20th century. Oh bro relax wait he's on one right now he's not just like spinning like a lunatic. No he's no he's on a ginger OK he's spun OK he's on a ginger and he's spinning. But I love that.

I love that a guy is spinning on something and saying how it's going to change the world you're like I'm Henry Ford I am Henry Ford. He said ginger would be the main form of transportation in cities in five years. It would be as big as radio TV or the PC. See that's crazy that he's been hanging out with too many of the VC types because I you can't it's very I just can't imagine thinking that you know what I mean. So nobody knew what to make it. The reason why is nobody knew what to make of those things at first like the PC everybody

didn't know what it was going to become. They're just like here's the thing and then people started working with it coming ideas. So I get it from that angle but but there's also the thing of like you guys have seen it you're engineers so you're already weird people out in the world haven't seen it you've shown it to rich guys that's what I mean like toys who like rich toys. That's not the same thing you're it's it's also like you just you can't predict that you can't know like John Lennon and Paul McCartney weren't like we're going to be the biggest band that's ever happened they were really good at music you know what I mean

but it was like you like it took a minute and then you're like holy shit we're the Beatles but you don't like you can't be like this is going to get rid of cars right. So yeah I mean that's the obvious flaw in this story. So you know he gives us big speech now he wants to he's decided he wants to call it the flywheel flywheel someone owns flywheel.com so he needs to buy the the the don't mean for the haggling yeah right but he that's what he's decided on. So now the investors want to fire the CEO and the directors of engineering marketing and manufacturing and operations so they want to fire all the top guys right they're saying

the none of them are up to the job because everything is going slowly well as well as he's not giving they're like not allowed to work so they're like these guys don't do anything he's like I know it's bullshit. The investors were upset because they were now 16 months behind schedule which isn't surprising because the launch date when they came up with it all those guys I just said they told Dean it wasn't possible and then he went and told everyone else that it was going to happen right because he's one of these like you just say it and it happens. So big reason why they were behind schedule is Dean making it hard to get suppliers and

refusing to approve the factory site. The marketers also cannot test it because of secrecy which is a problem for getting regulators to make it legal on things like sidewalks. So they could not hire new engineers because he wants them very cheaply and all of the engineers at this point all over the country are getting a $5,000 bonus to sign and he refuses to do that. So everything's backed up because he's cheap and secret. I love trying to get like cities to allow you to kind of change pedestrian laws and

you can't tell them what you have. That's right. So we just need to make it so that there is a lane for this thing. And what is it? I'm afraid I can't... Well what are we... But you... You write it?

That's your word. I wouldn't say write it but let's just say it's a motor walk. Does that make sense? Okay so it's something you're on. So you're not walking? I'm not comfortable saying that either. It is... Well...

What can I say here? Imagine walking much faster and you steer your... I can't say that. I'm sorry. I'm having a lot of trouble. What we need to do is basically create a lane for faster pedestrians. Motor walkers. You know he doesn't want to create a lane.

You know what you should call it? Keeping it wheel. Number one he wants to tell people, the regulators, that if anyone gets bumped into on a sidewalk it would be no different than getting bumped into by someone walking. And I think that's fair. I think that's fair. I think bumping shoulders with someone on a sidewalk is the same thing as running them over with the replacement for the car.

I do. Call me crazy but I think that's the same thing. I think that if you think about it when you know you sort of like bump shoulders with someone that's just the same as hitting them with a motorcycle. And the other thing he keeps saying is we should make soft handlebars. Why? What? What does that even mean?

What is that for safety? So you bump into someone and they couldn't get hurt. So you're really hedging your bet that the thing that's going to fuck the person up is the handlebar, not the enormous metallic motorized wheeled item that human will be flying on. So it's not going to hurt people because the handlebars are going to be made out of bananas. The handlebars are made out of dildos. So these are very fleshy sort of handlebars. It'll be no different than walking into a person.

Well what if you run them over? That'll kill them. That would kill them. That would, yeah. So Dean is invited to Aspen to meet other CEOs who are backed by the VC company. I'm sorry Dave. I have to get a bucket to be sick in. Aspen to come meet these people.

Who's the worst CEO you want to meet? Well, the Science Busk. Oh god, I mean. Jeff. Oh no. God damn it. Say it. Bezos.

Bezos. Oh hello. And for anybody who doesn't know about Jeff Bezos, is it Bezos or Bezos? I've heard it both. It's Bezos. But Behind the Bastards did a great episode on Bezos and one thing you should know about Bezos, which I'll never forget, is he doesn't understand music. He doesn't understand why people listen to it.

He doesn't understand what it's for. He doesn't understand music. So he's a psychopath. So they all have some little thing like that where it's like, I abhor dogs. I don't process music. Do you understand what I'm saying? What is it? Imagine trying to explain music to someone.

What? Why do you like it? Well, because it's like cool and it kind of, you know, that's just no thanks. So he brings Bezos back to his hotel room to ride ginger and Bezos rides around just giggling. It sounds way more nefarious when you put it like that. Yeah, it really does. So Jeff's going to come back to my room and he's going to ride ginger.

Okay. As long as there's no music while I ride her, it's a machine. Soon after Bezos comes out to visit Dika and he tells Dean not to advertise, quote, people won't show this to two people, they'll show it to a hundred people. It will be viral. Then he said to have people order six months before launch and that would give him operating cash. So like take like a 10% deposit or whatever.

And at Dika Bezos rode ginger around an empty warehouse yelling, quote, yeah baby and it's a blast. Oh my God. I want footage. Oh yeah baby, it's a blast. Put on some Led Zeppelin. Don't you fucking dare. He said he wanted to invest.

He said yeah baby. I know. Yeah baby. Oh, just like, hold on one second dude. Hey, what are you doing? Sorry. What was he doing? I don't know, he's under the bed like, I don't know.

There's just a lot of noise coming from under the bed and I don't like, like fabric being clawed noises. Sure, sure. And I think I just heard him say yeah baby. Yes that was him. So Bezos wants to invest 10 million. Now the marketers are very excited and other heads of the company are because they have found a name, Land Wing.

And they excitedly tell Dean. Sounds like a dark wing duck character. Dean repeats it back to them as if it had caused him to have a speech impediment. The land wing? That's hard to say. And you're like, man bro, you're overdoing it. Yeah. The markers then invited a branding company to come talk to Dean about their philosophies,

their philosophies being the living brand and consciousness of chaos. See here's the problem. You're not going to find a hero in marketing people. You're not, they're not, that's not, how did we go to more awful? That's my question. I'm like on Dean's side. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. There's no hero in this story. Yeah. You hear that? You're just like, did anybody hit them with the shovel when they came in the building? They sat around and came up with their consciousness of chaos theory. And now everyone thinks, everyone just thinks it's so awesome. They have these ideas and they listen to them blather for hours and it's just horrible.

Everything is horrible. Everyone's just getting nicer and nicer clothing while they're coming up with terms like that. Dean listened to 30 minutes of their little speech and then interrupted them and started making fun of their business card. And he called it lazy and pretentious and useless. I mean, it's American psycho. So what is this? Your business like?

So the marketing team is going crazy. People can't test ginger, but they need to know how people will use it and what they will like about it. Dean wants to push testing back to three to six months before the launch, which is insane for a product that people are writing around. Seems bad. They have no idea what people think of it. So that means they don't know how they're going to like it and what they're going to

like about it and how many people will buy. They're going in completely blind. No, no. It's very limiting. And now the CEO says, we need to hire a PR firm because a leak will come. We need to hire a PR firm to get us ready for the leak. And Dean says, no, we're not just blowing money on that. Right.

Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's pennywise dollar foolish 100 percent. He people would always August is the month everyone took vacations, but Dean did not. He didn't believe in vacations. He called them the V word. And he said vacations were, quote, a deliberate dissipation of energy, volitional entry and inconceivable waste. That is like literally if you were to put a brain in a calculator, like that's just

like AI. It's just like force him to go to Italy. Like make him go listen to them for a minute. It's just a waste of your brain. It's like, no, you actually, you do need to have some enjoyment in existence in order to motivate to do this stupid shit too. Seriously. Yeah.

I mean, it's inconceivable waste is what he calls vacations. Sorry. The V word. Yeah. By the way, that's what I call the view. Cities start banning scooters because scooters are becoming popular. And this worried the CEO. But Dean, not, not at all worried.

Those are scooters and these are living wheel lifes. Thank you. It's a, it's a moving robotic pedestrian exactly that you stand on. They're wheel shoes. Wheel wheel human. It's a wheel. Yeah. Yeah.

Soft. Yep. So he, he hasn't hired anyone to deal with different city, state and country regulations. Sure. But that's fine. They had, they had one consultant write up a report and she said, quote, the idea of having these big things come up behind me scares me to death. Well, I mean, yes.

Okay. I see you're telling me you don't enjoy judge dread. So Dean finally allows a regular regulatory person to be hired and he let 36 outsiders test gingers. Okay. Now everybody was known by someone in the company. So it was like a close person. Sure.

It's like a soft open during the test. The regulatory guy fell, cut his hands and broke a wrist. Just like the health inspector got food poisoning. It's not great. The, uh, there were other accidents and other guy flew over the handlebars. Now, but weren't they sort of soft and fleshy handlebars? This is, this is cause the code wasn't ready because there weren't, there was a shortage of software engineers cause he wouldn't hire engineers.

Yeah. But still most, almost all of them love ginger and were very comfortable on it. A lot of, a lot of them though, this said for a commute, their commute was too far to ride it and they'd rather walk, if they're going on a short trip to the store, 25% of them said they would buy it, but they all thought it would be pretty cheap. These are not great returns. No, they're not. So in a meeting, the CEO tells investors that they're backed up because they have not hired

three software engineers. And also they, they were not going to pay $5,000 signing bonuses. So an investor says, quote, if it takes 5,000 to blow someone out of another job, we should do it because we have tens of millions of dollars backed up behind that. Yeah, but $15,000 is a lot of money to a company that values itself at a hundred billion. Gene just wanted to go to conferences and talk young engineers into working for him. Well, I mean, to be fair, he's probably been suffocating in a culture that basically, you know, I mean, again, it's all about, that's one of the things that I think is so frustrating

about living in the society we live in where it's just like, you can't just give a little money for a fucking park. Or like, like you can't, this is like, and they don't want to, they're like, no, no. But in, he's an anomaly, most of the other companies are giving the $5,000 bonus and giving stock options and giving, he's an anomaly. I would argue that maybe at that time he's an anomaly, but now he's probably a lot more, I mean, that feels like now how, I mean, everybody worries about, I mean, it really is, it's like you really do like, they all look at like the, I watched Christmas vacation over

the break. And at the end of the movie, Brian Doyle Murray decides to give Chevy Chase his bonus and all the employees his bonus because he's sort of seeing the light. And the speech, I've seen this movie a hundred times and then I haven't probably seen the movie in five years. I'm watching it this time, I was like, this feels so insane that a CEO is like changing his mind and going to give people money out of the goodness of his heart. Yeah.

No. You know what I mean? It's just like, it's so incongruent with the culture now, but all right, anyway, okay. So the investor thinks it's the CEO's doing and Dean sits there quietly in the meeting and doesn't say anything. Nice. They're also way over budget. So it looks like they're saving money on stuff that matters and blowing on stuff that doesn't

matter. Right. Now, Dean has picked the name Flywheel. He has told the investors and they have a logo made. They're now a year out from building the factory. He's not going to like it. Sorry. A year behind on building.

They're a year behind on building the factory. Okay. That doesn't seem like a problem. It looks like the CEO is just completely incompetent, but it's all Dean. Dean finally, in the investor meeting, they're like, build a fucking factory. So he finally agrees to a location in November and then Dean learns that he waited too long to contact the owner of Flywheel.com and has just been sold to someone else. So they got to start over with the name because he didn't contact the guy.

Yeah. And do you know why? He didn't contact. Have someone do that for you. Yeah. Right. Have someone do it. But also he probably didn't want to know how much you have to pay.

So he kept putting it off. He didn't want to deal with it. Yeah. Yeah. Dean around this time goes to DC because he is getting the National Medal of Technology, which is an award for her. Wow. Yeah.

So he, while he's there in DC, he is invited to meet President Clinton in the White House. And he asks the White House staff if he can bring Fred and- Well, this thing suck your dick. Is there anyone to get it to blow you? No. But I have another invention at the rest stop in Ohio off the 3rd floor. We have some of the best glory hold technology in the Lincoln bedroom. But I'm looking for a machine.

I was looking for something that I could ride to work, but get my knob globed while I was doing it. Yeah. We don't have that yet. But we're working on that. I don't believe in you. I believe in me too. I'm alive.

So he asked if he could bring Fred and some first materials and a 60 minutes group because 60 minutes is doing a store out. And the White House staff is like, absolutely not. You can't bring any of that. No. They're like, we're like really secure about this thing. Yeah. And so Dean tells-

Can I bring some weird robots in 60 minutes? He of course tells 60 minutes they can come with him. Awesome. Nice. So he rolls up to the White House and I literally mean rolls up. He's on Fred. He rolls up to the White House gate with the 60 minutes crew. He's on Fred or he's on Ginger?

He's on Fred. No, no one has seen Ginger. Ginger is totally secret. Oh, right, right, right. Okay, okay. So the guards think he's disabled because he's in a wheelchair. Oh, God. This is crazy.

And they think he has permission to bring the crew in, the TV crew. So they get through and they start heading up the path and Dean runs over a TV cable and Fred starts to fall over. Fred is part of its programming is that it will shut down when it starts to actually fall over. So now Fred has to be reset. So that's what happens with when it actually is going to fall over. And then he gets up out of the wheelchair and everyone's like, what the fuck?

Exactly. Really? He has to be set up with a computer, which means going back out to the car. So he gets up and drags Fred back to the gate and the guards see him and they say, quote, you didn't tell us you could walk. And Dean says, you didn't ask. Oh, wow. This is I mean, you're not dealing with like the like bouncer at Bennegan's.

This is like. He came up in a wheelchair like you're supposed to be like, can you walk? Oh my God. Imagine making that part of your protocol. So they reset Fred and the guards let him back in Wow. And he gets to the Oval Office. He's on Fred. He goes in on Fred and he babbles to Clinton for 15 minutes.

Now he's only supposed to be there for five minutes, but he keeps babbling about first. Clinton is met him somewhere and Clinton says, makes a comment like, don't ever ask this guy a question if you if you want to, you know, have the rest of your day free. And then a photographer starts taking pictures and Dean whips out a folder of first like propaganda from under Fred's wheelchair seat and hands it to Clinton so it will be in the photo. Oh, wow. God damn.

Who? Is there anybody who likes this person? Like it's just the worst kind of person. So door calls a meeting in California to talk about Ginger Bezos and jobs are invited and other investors when they get there jobs has notes written on his palm. Interesting. It's the I. And his CEO is giving a presentation and he asked the CEO, what do you think of the design

and the CEO is like, it's coming along and job says, quote, I think it sucks. Well look, Steve, we're really pretty screwed over here. So let's get it out now. He says it's a revolutionary machine, but it looks traditional and design firms could come up with ideas that quote would make you shit your pants. And they shouldn't be making it themselves. It should be made in China, not New Hampshire. And Dean just sat there letting the CEO be attacked for decisions that were his.

Wow. Well, now you know, I kept him around. Yeah. He just calls the plan a DOA. He says car companies are going to make it illegal for you to ride on sidewalks the tax on the CEO and the director of marketing go on for two hours. The meeting was a complete setup by door to make the CEO and the other guys look bad. Door said, quote, we get to do something like this so rarely we shouldn't launch until Steve

Jobs wets his pants and Bezos said, quote, until he shits his pants. Quite a quite a conversation we're having. I mentioned there's no heroes in this story, right? That's amazing for like, till Steve Jobs wets his pants. I think you mean shits his pants. He apparently has like a honk type. His laugh is absolutely insane. If you want to see Jeff Bezos' laugh, go on YouTube and watch David Blaine Jeff Bezos.

And you really get to hear Bezos rip his laugh. And it is, it is like someone read a book on laughing and hasn't stuck the landing yet. He's just like, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh. And like David Blaine's like, bro, I'm like a real weirdo and you are a creep and mean. It is unbelievable. Now the reason this meeting probably happened was because VC guys want to extend things making the company burn money so they need more money and then they can get a bigger piece of the company and more control.

So after this, Dean is getting calls from other people in the meeting asking why he had these guys running things. So there's a big push. Bezos keeps pushing to be an investor and telling Dean to fire the CEO. In December, Dorr said Jobs, he gets, he calls Dean and he goes, I was just on the phone with Jobs. And Jobs said, quote, their butt heads. That marketing guy should be selling Kleenex at a discount store in Idaho.

And that CEO, where did you find an old line butt head like him? Well, first of all, butt heads and second of all, who's a tissue salesman anywhere? Nobody's like at a store like, how are you? I'm Daniel Kleenex. I just love the idea of these, there's just these guys that people think are such geniuses and they're like, yeah, they're calling people butt heads. He's a butt head. And that guy's also a butt head.

And we're looking for someone to shit their pants. Since the beginning of Fred and Ginger, Dean had a reporter coming to Dica two days a week to write a book, right? So he signed an NDA, but it just said, it just said, it just said until, you know, you can't say what it is until it comes out, right? So this guy's like, ah, so this guy, like he's been there forever now and he feels like he's like, he's kind of part of the team, like everybody knows him and they like him. But now the writer's agent sends out the book proposal to publishers.

It doesn't say what Ginger is, but it has a lot of info on how it will change the world. It has quotes of what jobs and bezos and investors had said in meetings. Ginger was called it. And the proposal went out and then it was leaked to a Silicon Valley startup news company, which is just a website. It sounds a lot more important. I mean, they sold, they eventually sold the startup news company for a bunch of money, but it's like, yeah, again, guys, it's just a website.

No, no, no, no, no. Inside.com. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On the inside. Dot news. Okay.

So now the world knows that there's a good thing you have that PR company. Yeah. Yes. Thank you. The investors are pissed. Steve Jobs is furious that Steve Jobs, you know, they had a, they had an embedded reporter and Steve Jobs didn't know. And so he's like yelling at Dean for not telling him there's a reporter in the room.

That guy was a butthead and you've been a butthead about it. I'm not talking about shitting my pants to that butthead. But everybody who is quoted denies the quotes, Dean tells the writer of the book, the book is dead and he's banned from Dica. Dean puts out a statement quote, we have a promising project, but nothing of the earth shattering nature that people are conjuring up. The leaked book proposal quoted several prominent technology leaders out of context without their doubts, risks, and maybes included.

Yeah. No. So he, because the, because all of the quotes are what they have been saying, yeah, right. It's going to change the world. It's going to change transportation. And now he's like, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh. It's a skateboard. Yeah.

Basically. Yeah. Uh, so the media goes fucking nuts. Every news outlet in the country is like, what is it? Uh, this is as bad as it could be. Yeah. Yeah. They couldn't have done this.

They got the, yeah. Reporters are hanging outside the Dica gates. New York times does a big write up. We want to talk to the Lord of dumplings. The New York's time story is mostly made up. It says Dean wrote the book proposal. He's co-writing the book. It's just a bunch of bullshit.

Other reporters, however, parrot what the times wrote because it was in the times. It's a January news hole also. There's just not a lot of news in January. So it is just filling all the space. Plus, it's a mystery and everybody loves a mystery. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah.

Bezos tells a reporter quote, ginger is indeed very cool, but it is the single most overhyped thing in the history of the universe. It's basically like music. The CEO gets fired. Finally, the guy who kept telling him to hire a PR company, Amazon takes orders for ginger. Even though no one knows what it looks like, the price or when it will be ready. And Bezos did it without Dean's approval. What is going on?

The ex CEO said this is this was a way for Bezos to grab early adopters. So if Dean said Bezos couldn't sell it, Bezos would have the names of those people uses leverage. Right. The CEO said, quote, it's classic stuff, but Dean never had never seen it and doesn't know what to do about it. Dean then fired the marketing director. So door gets Dean to hire an ex Motorola, Motorola CEO to come in for a two month tryout.

He's gone after the two months. After that, Dean rejected every CEO door brought to him and he told the reporter, a CEO would just be another person mucking around. Yeah. Because you don't let them do anything. Yeah, exactly, if you don't empower them to actually have a role. So people are going fucking bug fuck over it. Websites are built just to talk about what it could be.

It's in the top 10. You mean news information internet providers? That's correct. No, I mean, no, I mean people made websites. Yeah, I know, I know. Oh, I see what you're saying about the thing previously. Yes. Yeah, there's forums.

medically speaking. It was a callback. But there's like forums called what is it.com like it's just yeah, it's worse. This is worse. It's it couldn't be worse. It couldn't be worse. This is worse. This is worse because it is just a fucking fancy scooter at the end of the day.

Yeah, right. So it's it's like the top 10 thing talked about online. Others find the patent drawings and people are like it's a time travel machine. It's a levitation machine. Oh, my God. It's an anti gravity machine. Like people are coming up with the craziest. I mean, I remember this.

I was just like, what is going on? There's no worse marketing than like what are the people saying? Well, they're hoping that it does time travel. He's like, well, it's not as good as that. That's not great. I mean, they immediately should have said what it was immediately. Yeah, immediately got out and just like this is all it is because this went on like two months later.

It's still the top 10 talked about thing because it's a mystery and people just keep coming up with wild ideas like Art Bell is like Art Bell actually had a guy on who was a whatever a paranormal whatever. And he basically described what it was. Oh, wow. Which is the funniest thing. So right, so there's always fantastical ideas. But they find the patents, Deans like it's not like people's guesses and he also says

I didn't file those patents like he's trying. He's just scrambling. But it makes him famous. He's now a celebrity engineer and websites. People are following everywhere he travels. People are following around the town he lives in. People watch him in trees with binoculars. So Dean thinks he's killed that book and he talks to the writer and he finds out he actually

doesn't have the power to kill it. Yeah. The story was the reporter's story. Dean flips out quote, you never told me you were writing a book. But that's the entire reason he had brought him to DECA. Well, yeah, but also like, I mean, what do you expect? Even if you didn't, like you're inviting some third party to just kind of sit in on 20% of your meetings.

Yeah. I mean, it's so similar to what happened with Trump and what's his face? Bob Woodward, where it was just like he was like put the book out or even the other one. Any of those books were like, well, you didn't tell us you were writing a book and it was like, well, I was in the White House. I'm a reporter, the fuck did you think I was doing? So the reporter said, the reporter said, quote, now he was inventing a new story in which I never told him that I was writing a book in which he controlled everything I wrote.

The writer's Steve Kemper. But yeah, so so in October, Dean finally let some Boston cops come and ride Ginger. One said he liked that it was quiet, quote, because we're still in the business of sneaking up on people sometimes. Hey, can we talk to you over here? Hey, O'Malley, can we get a word? Also another cop said that what I like about it is that when I shoot it in the back, it doesn't scream.

Another cop doesn't start talking about its rights all the time, which I'm a huge fan of. Another cop said that they would get so tired riding their bikes that sometimes he couldn't think. So this would be great. I mean, can we just elect Pixar president already? So Dean is elated by the cops feedback and then some Atlanta city planners reached out. They came to see it because the city has bad transportation problems and they left wanting

to have a pilot ginger program in Atlanta. The idea that this is going to help your city with transportation. Do you not remember the articles? I don't. I really don't. The articles were like, this is going to change the world. But how do you even... I remember there was an illustration of a train in which everyone put their like a docking

car for their gingers. So you'd put it on your... And then you'd take the train to the city and get off and ride your ginger to work. But just like all these people riding, it's just like, I mean, I would just be like... I mean, I really don't remember like the brouhaha leading up to it. But I would imagine that somebody would be like, I feel like a lot of people are going to die. Like you just be like, this seems a little...

These are not like... They're not like little slender like things. These are kind of big pieces of machinery. I mean, it's no different than a bike or anything else, honestly. It's bigger than a bike though. And it's faster and it's more like... It's not faster than a bike, but it's also like... Well, where are you going to be riding them?

Correct. And so this is the problem you're bringing up. There's no infrastructure built around how this would work. Yeah. Is it sidewalk or road? You know, in a lot of cities, there's not even bike lanes like we have now compared to then. But yeah, there's not...

They want it on sidewalks, but that lady is right. People are going to be terrified. That would be horrendous. Yeah. So anyway, Atlanta's in. By the way, Dean is still not hired a marketing team still. A new name became a possibility. Segway.

There we go. A verb to segue from place to place or a noun. And he liked that double... He loved the double thing. Can you imagine the marketing team when he like kind of likes something? They're like, yeah, no, we like that too, that it's nouny and verby. Yep. Yeah.

But they could just yes our way into this. Just yes. Just yes. Come on. We can leave. It's a terrible name, but yes. We can leave the island of dumpling. Now some companies are considering buying gingers.

There's two versions. They're going to have a commercial, bigger version and then a smaller, personal version. So this will be for workers. So Federal Express is talking about buying a bunch and the post office. The holdup is that Dean is not settled on a price. Maybe $5,000, maybe $8,000, maybe $10,000. So that's why they're not buying them yet. They reveal it on December 3rd, 2001, on Good Morning America.

It was under a little curtain and they lifted it up and Diane Sawyer said, quote, but that can't be it. I also it's a little amazing that it's like you're just under two months removed from 9-Eleven and you're like, let's go. Yeah. That's right. That's absolutely. That is a huge also when you just have him like you'd be like, and this is this is it

and he should write it in like, yeah, yes, yes, so yeah, whatever. So you could tell he's just yeah, like you're like to what you're pointing out. I mean, it's he's just him. It's like it's like your neighbor invented a segue. So they take him outside the two hosts ride around. They love it. It's officially named segue now. It's going to go on sale in late 2002.

So a year from now, the show's website, however, gets a million hits. Because it does look cool. Like you do just lean and it goes like it is a thing. People people like it. A lot of people don't. Some say it's just a toy for rich people. Everyone everyone called it a scooter, which made Dean mad. That's great.

The Washington Post headline was quote the invention that runs on hype. The onion quote upright handlebars ergonomically designed to maximize a loss of dignity. They put out a list of comp. So they're going to the one that's coming on the year is the commercial one. So they put out a list of who's going to buy it. It's a very small list. FedEx is not on it because Dean had not come up with the price and they dropped out. Wow.

Good Lord. New York Times right up writes up a big flattering article. My magazine does also titling it reinventing the wheel. Jay Leno staying in Russell Crow ride them on the tonight show. David Lennerman makes fun of it. It all makes Dean more famous. He is now being compared to Thomas Edison. By the way, almost every company Edison made failed.

Dean finally announces a $10,000 price and in May 2002, he hires ex and ex Subaru president to be CEO. In late 2002, Dean and Bezos go back on Good Morning America to announce the consumer model could be ordered on Amazon for $4,950. Get bent. Wow. You put down a 10% deposit. Wow.

Yeah. I mean, it's just like, yeah, come on. I mean, $5,000. I remember hearing that. It's a lot of money to just like- I remember hearing about it and was like, okay, it sounds like kind of cool. I might want to check it out. And then $5,000.

Like, oh, I'm out. Like, I can't. Yeah. I could maybe do $700. I don't have any money. So it would be ready in March, hopefully, between March and July. So we're still another seven or eight months out. They thought they were going to sell $50,000 to $100,000 in the first year somewhere in

there. They sold $6,000. Oh, my God. Now, that is $30 million. So- Yeah, but I mean, we were talking- It's not- You were Henry Ford. We were talking, right?

A year ago. Yes. And compared to- so it seems a failure, but it's actually not. They sold $30 million with a product in their first year. That's successful. Yeah. But the hype machine killed it. In June 2003, George W. Bush- That would be a good name for it.

The hype killed it. The hype machine. The hype machine. Yeah. Yeah. They should have just called it the hype. Yeah. Yeah.

George W. Bush rode one and fell off in front of cameras. Well, I mean, to be fair, what do you- what do you expect? He also almost died from a pretzel, so, man, can you imagine the ripple effect if he died from that pretzel? Oh. Although- Amazing. Janey the President.

Yeah. Yeah. Two months after Bush fell, they were- all the segues were recalled for software patch because- That's right. They went down and hurt themselves because they accelerated when the battery died, so they had to change that so it would just slowly, you know, go out. Yeah.

Why wouldn't you think of that? Yeah. One would assume that that would be one of the features that- and if the battery's dying, don't try to move anymore. So the CEO, the new CEO, quit. Now tons of executives are constantly leaving the company. Dean managed to raise another $31 million. They sold 102 Celebration Florida at a huge discount to see what would happen if a bunch

of people had them in a town. Within a year, no one was writing them. A segue employee, quote, there was a significant dork factor. It was never truly socially accepted. Yes. There is a significant dork factor. Absolutely. Look, if Jeff Bezos is on your thing saying, yeah, baby.

That's a red flag. By the summer 2004, under 10,000 had been sold. Just like the Model T. It's too expensive. You couldn't test write it. You had to buy it on Amazon, and here's the worst thing of all. You had to go to, on your own dollar, a regional training center for a weekend to learn how to write it safely.

Yeah, because the whole thing was that I don't even remember when I first wrote one. But it was not like the easiest transit. People were fucking getting fucked up from just getting on one and trying to write it. Yeah, it was a little confusing. And there was a little bit of like a rebalancing that you had to kind of go through. Yeah, but that's easy to handle. You just have dealerships. Yeah, I would say that for sure there would be, but you're also imagining that these are

going to be like everyone's going to have one, so you're not going to have to get over it. But that's what they thought. That's what I mean. Yeah, yes. So in January 2004, Dean was pushed out, he was put in a reduced role, a new CEO could absolutely not believe that they never set up dealerships for people to ride Segways. So he quickly put 60 around the country.

The company that made the transmissions for the Segway filed for bankruptcy, because Dean had ordered one million. His eyes were bigger than his tummy million. They thought they were going to be making two, six thousand a week. Oh my God. That's how much they made in the first like year in 2007, the latest CEO got together with General Motors and made a lightweight EV pod car to sell in China. And then the housing crisis hit and that was over.

So they mostly just sold Segways to tour companies at this point. Mall Cop came out in 2009, huge Segway, dark situation, like any hope they had at that point was crushed. Can you imagine what they saw like the preview for Paul Blart Mall Cop? They're like, that's not good. So that year, the company was sold to Jim Hesselden. We don't know how much. He's a rich British guy who made a fortune inventing these earth containers that the

armies use as barriers and more. Nice. Anyway, we don't know how much was never announced. Nine months later, Hesselden was walking his dog on his Segway when he backed up to let another dog walker pass and he backed off a cliff and fell to his death. I've heard that one before. That's just the worst thing. I mean, that I think, OK, so you're kind of already maybe dead as a company.

But the second that the word that the CEO of Segway died on a Segway got out there, that did not help any anything. That was when you're like, wait, what? The guy who like owned the company, what did he do? He took it over a cliff. So the guy who bought Segway and was running the company Wiley coyoteed off a cliff on a Segway. That's right.

He must have been as he was falling to his death. He must have also just in a passing moment had enough time to be like, this is also going to be really bad for the company. I should have hired a PR guy for this. So in 2013, Roger Brown of Tennessee bought Segway from Hesseldensa State for nine million dollars. Wow. Wow.

I mean, dude, we're like 50 years away from being able to take a crack at it. Brown brought in new employees because he thought the current employees were super uptight. He used cheaper parts and the company started turning a profit in a year. And then he got the U.S. International Trade Commission to look into infringements of Segway's self-balancing technology patents. Wow. One of the companies named in that situation was called Ninebot. So Brown sold Segway the next year to Ninebot for 75 million.

So he just basically found a company that was using the technology essentially and then he just basically got rid of it because it was kind of useless at this point. Well yeah, but also Ninebot was making scooters and other things and they wanted to get into the U.S. Market. So he basically just turned it into, yeah, right, it was basically a patent essentially is what it became. Yeah.

He bought it. He bought the company for the patents and that's how he made his money. Nice. And he turned it around. So it wasn't terrible. So Dean probably had a phone call with him where he's like, look, I'm really excited for you to be on board. And the guy's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, we're really going to, yeah, no, I definitely, yeah,

it's the future for sure. Yeah, yeah. Hey, I got to run, man. I got to run. I got another call I got to make. A few years later, Brown was in Cincinnati and he sees all these people riding around on scooters. Yeah.

Ninebot is the maker of all those scooters that led to these scooter craze. They shipped one million scooters in 2018, Bird, Lyme, Uber, Lyft for all Ninebot scooters. Turns out when Dean owned Segway, they did make prototypes of scooters, electric bikes, skateboards and even a unicycle, but never commercializing because there was no money to do it. Oh, you're right there. And Ginger, with Ginger, they tried to work with city governments. The new scooter companies just brought them in and dumped them on the street.

To be fair, I really feel like they, I mean, if you had gone to them and been like, oh, man, just put them on the street, they'd have been like, you cannot do that because you should not be able to do that, but that is what ended up happening. Yeah, that's the only, obviously that's the only comparison you could think of, but the thing about those is that they are so, there's just so much, they're just slider. They're just not nearly as enormous and it's like, right. It's also, there's no learning curve in learning it. You get on it.

You know how to do a scooter. But I mean, first of all, I have a friend who took a fall on one of those and I mean, it looked like a Hollywood movie scar going down his face. And there are the amount of times where I've like, where you, someone zooms by you and you're like, that person's going to fall. And you, but you might not see it, but, and my favorite story is the one time when Mr. Dave Anthony told me that he took one of those scooters and wrote it from Hollywood to Eagle Rock to just see how far you can ride it.

What far? And I was like, what? I can't remember, but you'd like, you called me and you're like, yeah, I just took it like really far. I was like, are you making this up? That's pretty funny. So Dean, he was right about the battery powered transportation devices, right? I mean, they're everywhere.

They're a thing. He's now moved on to his latest venture, the Advanced Regenerative Manufacturing Institute, which explores ways of regenerating human organs. Well, it's a good thing he's saying. He's looking for his own like liver. Segway sold about 140,000 vehicles in its entire run, but they were built so well, they never broke down. Some people have gone over a hundred thousand miles on their Segways.

So no repeat customers. As scooters took off, Segway sales collapsed in July, 2020, the last Segway was manufactured in New Hampshire. The last 21 workers were laid off. The Segway name will still exist because of brand recognition, but the vehicle known as the Segway is no more. So they basically just sell. They put out this company and I about put out like a chair that you ride it like it's

like, I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. Like that's totally useful. But you sit in a chair and you drive like, I mean, that is that is Wally. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, he had he had an idea and he had a technology because all that all that balancing stuff is used in the scooters today. Right. Yeah. But he just had a very strict idea of how it was going to work.

And also again, the world was trying to shave money. He was trying to shave money left and right. The world wasn't ready, you know, just from like the aspect of like energy and everything else, but it wasn't ready. Like he seems like he seems, I mean, he's just one of those guys like he's a genius. Also an idiot. Like, right? Like he's.

Yeah. I mean, because these ideas he has, he has changed a lot. He has greatly helped people with his medical inventions and and, you know, those are profoundly positive things. The second way also could have been a positive thing. It's just like he is the worst businessman in the world. And if he'd gotten out of his own way, it could have been interesting. Like if, if Steve Jobs had gotten involved, designed it cool and had it built it because

that's a key thing. If you built it in China for cheap, that thing is way, way less than building it in fucking New Hampshire. Like, I mean, at the end of the day, that's what they like, right? Especially as you pay people no money to build something and then you make a lot of money off of it. It's awesome. I agree.

So that's what Jobs would have done. And there probably would be. If Jobs had put it out, all of those Apple people would have bought it in a heartbeat. Yeah. He really should have just said, I'll let, I'll let Apple license this. Yes. You let Steve Jobs take the wheel for at least a little bit. Yeah.

Man, that is so nuts. That is so great. And I do think the, like, you know, if you think about the idea of just plopping a bunch of segues in a city just would not seem like even for his weird irrational decision making, that would not seem like an option. Like that just wouldn't make, you just would be like, you can't do that part of what maybe go ahead. Well, here's the thing though.

Like you said, people get hurt on those scooters all the fucking time. Yeah. All the time. Like the horror stories are all, especially because people get drunk and ride them. Like that's the main reason people get hurt all the time. They don't care if people get hurt. There's no. No.

Well, when you, when you sign up on the, now there were no cell phones, so you couldn't, you couldn't sign away. I was also going to make the connection to Uber, where it was like you, like Uber was transportation where you've kind of have waved, there's a lot of like rights waving going on there. And so maybe like Uber had to crawl for lime scooters and those other ones to, to walk. You know, like it, it felt like that was definitely a, I mean that, I mean, again, like that just sort of, I rationalize it a little like through that, through thinking about that.

But it's totally, I mean, it's totally insane. Obviously. I know, I know people hate those scooters, but those scooters are better for the environment than a car. Well, then there's also the, we are, we are so, we are such horrible, you know, people where it was like, it's funny to throw them in rivers and it was like, why? Yeah. Now that kind of shit, you're just like, like, so let's make it 10 times worse than the environment.

Like we're digging up all the fucking lithium and shit. Yeah. Like always. Yeah. I mean, it's. We can't have nice things. No. People are always like, they just, they're all over the sidewalk, right?

That's not the scooters. That's the people. That's the humans. That's the us. Yeah. We did that. Sources, reinventing the wheel, a story of genius innovation and grand ambition by Steve Kemper, machine of dreams and Vanity Fair, the BBC, CNN, the Segway history, fast

company, exclusive Segway, the most hyped invention since the Macintosh and production and AV club, Dan Coy's wonders of he's more responsible for killing the Segway. Yeah. Dave, I'll also be at Rooster Tea Feathers, February 9th, 10th and 11th. It's crazy. That's crazy. It's crazy. So, and this guy now, Dean is like 73 years old.

Yeah, he's in the 70s now. Yeah. Yeah. It's quite a, it is really crazy. Quite a ride, man. Yeah. It is really crazy. It is because I had, I thought that the Segway just went away.

I didn't realize that it then turned into the scooter craze and that I had no idea. So when I read that, I was like, oh, well, that's wild. Like I never put that together. But you know, things are just ahead of their time. I think if it came out now, it would be a different animal. I don't think, like if you were making it now, you would also like, I don't think they would try to make it, because of globalization, I don't think that he would even consider trying to make it in New Hampshire.

It'd be cheaper. It'd be cheaper. And I mean, that's the end of the day, right? You want a profit on human misery, which is, you know, what that is. And then you get to sell it for cheaper to richer people. Well, it's true. I mean, that's essentially. No, it is for sure.

Yeah. I still, I think it, you know, it's just, it really very quickly was like a nerdy thing. Yeah. I mean, the dork factor. I remember I rode one, my manager had one, and I remember I went up to the house and I rode it around and I was just like, I don't know what I'd do with this. Like that was my first thing. I'm like, it's fun to ride, but I don't know what I would do with it.

Like it's not, it's not a handy thing to ride around. But also it was like, it was dorky. Like you've, you've felt like a dork on it. It's dorky. That's the main thing. Like if they'd made it cool, that's the jobs factor, right? Jobs would have spent money. That's the thing that always like, I hate that design shit of Apple, because I think

it's, I genuinely think it's fucking stupid. Like you just don't have to make it industrial and utilitarian. Like it, it, that's the thing about the, the segues, it just looked like, you know, something you would have in a factory. It didn't look cool, but I also don't think you need to pay some guy $30 million to fucking design a scooter. Like there's a way to make it. And they have all these guys like, he's the ultimate, he made a chair and you're like,

okay, the chair is really cool, but it's also, that guy shouldn't be a billionaire because of it. Like the design aspect of all of this shit, I think is really overhyped and fucking dumb. How great would it be in the, like to live in the dimension where Bezos went over the mountainside? Oh. On it. And his last words were, yeah, baby.

Has he wily, the wily coyote dust? Well, you've done it again, buddy. That's how I'm going to end every one of these. Huh? I always wanted to do that episode. Yeah. That's crazy. That's great.

Okay. All right.