The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 608 - Alfred Packer with Adam Cayton Holland

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Comedians Gareth Reynolds and Dave Anthony examine mountain man Alferd Packer. Recorded live at Comedy Works South in Denver.  Tour Dates Redbubble Merch Sources   JamesAllen.com - CODE: Dollop

The dollop is brought to you by James Allen dot com get 25% off your order when you go to James Allen dot com and use code Dullop that's code dollop at James Allen dot com for 25% off James Allen dot com What else you're listening to the dollop You're ridiculous. This is Gary. Gary. Huh. Huh. I got to go back to the hotel. Gary! Gary! Gary! Gary! It's Gary! Gary! Ha! Ha! I gotta go back to the hotel.

This is an American History Podcast, or each week, I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to my valet. Gary Threaddle's Yale scam, who has no idea where the glasses are gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about.

I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. And we have a guest. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about.

I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. I'm gonna be about. We come through here. He's always busy because he's a big muckily muck. Yeah, but give it up for Denver's own Nice Adam King Holland

Yeah, hello, hello. This is for you. I poured a water for you. Thank you very kind of you I'll reach across you every time I need it. You're more than welcome to it. Perfect. I got distracted by his t-shirt. I like it. I like the band. Unless you just like cake and it's not the band. It's the band, right? Okay. I wasn't sure if he just enjoys cake a lot and he had a special shirt made. There's a band? It's named after the dessert. The phenomenon of cake.

Yeah, yeah. It's delicious. Well, we're hot already. Should we jump in or how do we? I'll start when I just took this one. That's great, everything. I just make up history as I go. I like that.

Adam, you do a monthly show. Why don't you tell people where you do it? I have a monthly show at the book theater in Denver. It's called The Grollix. Thank you, thank you, everyone. And there's an accompanying podcast called The Grollix saves the world. And three people here, listen to it,

and I love that crossover. I love that crossover. I love that crossover. Three like it. That's the way you did. Yes, it also be that. Silent judgment, I that crossover. Three like it. That's the way you did. Yes. It could also be that. Silent judgment.

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And James Allen dot com comes with a lifetime warranty free resizing and engraving hassle free 30 day returns. So get 25% off your order when you go to James Allen dot com and use code dollop. That's code dollop at James Allen dot.com for 25% off. James allen.com. November 21st, 1842. I can't believe we're finally doing this one. Wow. Year of our Lord J. Town, who by the way, he's given out headbands for the kids. And as far as I hear, they're really going like hotcakes, so the kids really dig them.

Yeah, it sounds like a pedophile. Some weird bearded dude just handing out headbands? Okay, sure, you think the cops aren't watching him? I'm glad for your guy. Anyway, November 21st, 1641. Ha ha ha ha ha. Jump back in. Yeah, I'm rocking his merch.

He also roller blades. Yeah, cool. That's a stylistic hobby. Sometimes backwards. Cool. Yeah, that person's always someone you wanna hang out with. Are you fun? You have no idea what rad is. Alfred Packard!

Oh, wow. Yes. Yes. Ha-ha. Finally, we're doing it. Famous Denver Bronco Alfred Packard. You're pandering local man, the line Packard. Alfred Packard was born near Pittsburgh

in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. Okay. Really? Interesting. He was one of eight kids. His father James was a carpenter. And soon after I was born, James moved the family to Lagrange, Indiana. So listen, there's gonna be a few cities mentioned tonight.

And we just don't have time to woo him all. Shocking how every city's, I was like, finally! I'm just bummed there's as many Lagrange fans as listen to my podcast in this room. His dad worked as a cat-maker and he was involved in the Methodist Episcopal Society. That little J-town Amarang. Yeah, a little bit. Oh, J-town-ish. the Methodist Episcopal Society. That's a little J-town, Amarang.

Yeah, a little bit. A little J-townish. Almost nothing is known about Alfred's childhood. He was a pretext to a shoemaker. So he learned leather working there. He had grand mall epilepsy for which there is no treatment. So he had the violent seizures all his life a year into the Civil War in April 1862. He joined the Union Army.

His enlistment form said he was five foot eight with blue eyes and light hair, though he would always be described as having cold black hair. Sure. Well, yeah, after the war, it really changed. A lot of people went in blonde, came out black in that thing. Sure. Well, yeah, after the war, it really changed it. A lot of people went in blonde, came out black in that bag. Here's freezing. This is Christ.

Packer was sent to train at Camp Thomas in North Columbus, Ohio. And soon after arriving, he got attacked. Columbus! Bugga! That was a great town, man. Hell yeah. Yeah. No, you're not supposed to do that.

Oh, man, but come on. I heard a thing I'm associated with it a little. How? How are you associated? Bro. It's my city. Yeah. Go ahead.

Okay. He got a tattoo on his right arm. He was his name, but it was misspelled. That is what I imagine 1800 tattooing to be like. So what do you have fixing for? My name, all right. Is that cheesecake? Oh, fuck.

I mean- You know you can't take the mask off to eat that, sir. If it's very serious. Yeah, you're gonna have to give that to the guy without the mask. I think legally, you have to give it to the guy in the cake shirt, right? Isn't that sort of frontier laws? Uh... I'm going to run to your laws. I'm going to run to your laws.

What? Excuse me, sir. I noticed you got a piece of cake. Unfortunately, it's like what a cop takes a car with a badge. I believe that actually I have to have your pastry soup. I'm with the FCI federal cake in the rest of the business. I have to have your cake, sir.

FCI on NBC. Yo! So he misspelled that Alfred Packer. He probably, he probably didn't know how to spell his name because a lot of people didn't at this point in their lives. His sister, Melissa, also mispilled her name as Malissa. At some point, Alfred does learn to spell it right, though. At some point, along his journey. It's not a bad day for that tattoo.

He's like, wait! Oh, fuck! Are you fucking kidding me? Oh, man. Okay. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha incapable of performing the duties of a soldier because of epilepsy. Number of days, a soldier was unfit for duty the doctor wrote, quote, all the time. Not pulling any punches. Don't think about that cake. I got a major weakness for cheesecake.

You what? I got a major weakness for cheesecake. We're seeing it pretty clearly tonight. Yeah, you're in the middle of a show. Oh, am I? Hi. So just eat the fucking cake already. What's taking so long?

He's terrified. I'd be terrified too. You're edging the guy, Jesus Christ. Give it, eat the fucking cake. Not slowly either, get it in. Eat it while 600 people watch you eat it. There'd be no more cake tonight. First three rows, you're off cake.

I've got a dog man up here. I'm like the roo with a puppy. Yeah. Oh, roo. Columbus? So Alfred headed west, and he enlisted again. This time with the eighth regiment of the Iowa Calvary. So he re-enlist, but he's not supposed to.

Did he do it under Alfred? I don't know if they were able to keep track of people like you. Sure, they were just like, all right, you swear to God you're allowed to. Get over here, you're good enough. You just have to ride one horse length ahead of the paperwork, and you can dodge anything in 1863. They were sent to defend Nashville. In November, 1863, his salary was $2.50, which is about $50 today, for quote,

plundering citizens of Nashville. So sure. So sure. You know, growing through shit and taking it. Yeah, why not? Sure, why not? Why not? It's like a Nashville.

The following April, he was discharged. Quote, the soldier has put unfit for duty for 60 days in consequence of epilepsy. Caught up with him. Yeah. It's, I don't know why he couldn't keep that secret of a three or four grand mal seizures a day. Yeah, all right.

The doctor reported his seizures happened once every 48 hours and up to three times every 48 hours. Jesus. It's hard to hide. Yeah. Quit dancing. I just love it. So he goes west, he's doing different jobs. He was the hardest make a maker, Sadler, Trapper, Teamster, Hunter, and Wilderness guide. In the late 1860s he made his way to Colorado seeking gold. Nice. There they are. But the mining doesn't go well. He lost parts of two fingers in a sludge hammer incident. Peter Gabriel song. Ten-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en-en- I was pretty much a jackwacker every day. Your turn. Uh, Jackwack didn't the hotel earlier. So that was a guy who led pack mules carrying supplies.

Sure. And masturbate. Yeah. And we're back, baby. He was... He was... He's still having violence here. Wait, Jack Wacker, Alfred Packer.

Is that how... Oh. Wow. I'm Alfred Packer, the Jack Wacker. If you hadn't said that, we would have gotten all these tweets. Like, I can't believe you missed Jack Wacker, If you hadn't said that, we would have gotten all these tweets. I can't believe you missed Jack Wacker. Yeah.

That's how you get a ghost out of your house. You say that three times. They're gone. So, he still haven't seizures. A mining partner said he would, quote, fall to the ground and struggle to a terrible degree, he would then be prostrate for several days, unable to perform any labor. So no, he's the seizure, but then he's like,

ow, yeah, he's having a hard time for a while after. Right. While pursuing work as a guide through the mountain. Right, correct. Hey Alfred, we're dying. Which way do we go? Hold on, I'll give a shit together in a little bit. Who knows where we are?

Wake me on Thursday. He goes to Utah to do more mining and he got a job at Bingham County Canyon in a copper mine and he worked there. He's going to find some plants until he got lead poisoning. He got lead poisoning? Yeah, he worked in the mine until he got lead poisoning. Jesus. He recovered.

He moved to the town of Sandy, which is 12 miles south of Salt Lake City. So there he gets a job working in his smelter, and he worked there until he got led poisoning. I think he's allergic to lead. Have you get that sense? Yeah, a little bit. He later said he thought he was going to die. A doctor treated him with castor oil. Nice. Awesome. Awesome.

What do you do? Drink it? Yeah, if you get lead poisoning, you take some of that. Okay. Checks out, for sure. That's what they're doing in Flint, Mississippi. Oh, no, you're right. They're not doing anything. You're right. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything.

You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything.

You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything.

You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. You're not doing anything. headquarters. He recovered in the fall of 1873 and around that time there's a civil strike in the San Juan Mountains in Colorado. Columbus! Many miners in Bigam Canyon decided to go there and one of course was Alfred Packer. Bob McGrew was another. He had come from Oregon with his partner George Tracy and McGrew had two waggets with four horse teams. But as of yet he had not had any success as a prospector, it was just kind of scraping by Holland freight. So he decides to go to the San Juan Mountains. Quote, any place that showed a chance to make some money would do me.

Do me good. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Different. Soon after they decided to go, Alfred came into their camp and he said he was broke. He couldn't pay, but he would help anyway could. And he had lived in Colorado, he knew the area, and he would be a good guide. There's one little secret. What's that? He'll collapse a lot. Also, if there's any lead, I am no good under the circumstances.

Someone else take the ring. How are you guys with lead? Does it make you feel sick? I just, it does not agree with me. Oh, God, is that lead? Oh, God. Oh, Alfred. Oh, Christ.

It's my cheesecake. Oh. McGrew was very impressed with his athletic look and his smarts. Quote, while he was generally quiet and reticent, he loved to go among the Mormons and argue religion with him. Well, who the fuck does that? Yeah, exactly.

Come on. That'll pull anybody out of their shell. I often listened to him and thought he was a smart and fine talker. So he's hired. Okay. They stuck him on supplies altogether in the party. 19 men set out from Bingham Canyon from Southwest Colorado.

Is he, he's kind of in charge of where they're headed? Yeah, he's the guy. Okay, I'm gonna, yep, that'd be best. If he doesn't know where he's going, he'll fall on the ground and shake, and then that'll point him in the right direction. Sure. Like a compass. Yes. He's known in the right direction. Sure. Like a compass. Yes.

He's known as the human compass. Yeah. A couple more guys would join on the route. Oliver, Loutzen, Heiser, and Preston, Nutter. Nutter immediately said they didn't have enough supplies. Is that guy? The realist. The others were not concerned at all

since they had a guide Alfred Packer with them who told them it would be no problem reaching the San Juan Mountains, which they were about 400 miles away from. Oh, okay. So pretty close. And mountain miles. Yeah.

Six hours by car, whatever, seven hours. Sure. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Lovely drive. Yeah. Much better to drive it.

One of the first nights, McGrugh noticed Alfred staring at the fire with a wild look in his eyes. Then he fell, convulsing into the fire, knocking the coffee pot over, causing steam to scald and brown his face. Jesus Christ. Alfred, that's not the way. I like coffee. Oh my God.

Someone saved the coffee. The group pulled him out of the fire, quote, back remained in the fit quite a while and was a bad sight. His eyes having an open, glaring dead cast. Nope, well now they know. Someone's got a secret. When it was over, he said it was the first seizure you'd ever had.

Jeez, Alfred. Can you imagine, I can't believe I. He's Alfred. Can you imagine? Diagn... Oh, I can't believe I had a seizure. How did you know? I could tell by your looks. That's my first seizure. My name is an Alfred. Well, look at your tattoo.

Your name's not Alfred. My name's that Alfred Picker. Then he had up to three a day as the trip went on. Boy, these things are really coming in fits and sparts. I must be allergic to something I've never heard. What an arrange and pours, huh? They took the old Spanish trail southeast and reached the river of the Grand River. Now it was obvious Alfred had no idea where to go

and he had lied about being a guide. Interesting. Latson Heiser hated him completely already. Yeah. He had no clue where he's going. No, it's not good. No. Someone the group.

He's taking another shake break. That's move. We don't have time for break. Let's move. We don't have time for this. There's only decaf left. Some in the group were whispering that Alfred had been jailed in Salt Lake once and Alfred confirmed it and said he'd been caught in a brothel. Okay. Well, yeah.

Who's there when there's gonna be a guy right? I mean who among us is this? Oh, I thought you committed a crime. Ever since I got caught in a brothel in Salt Lake, I like to go and yell at Mormons about their religion. Yeah. Maybe I should have just married all the women. That would have made more sense.

At this point, many in the group thought he was, as Nutter said, quote, a man without character. And as the journey went on, he became more silky, obstinate, and quarrelsome. Good qualities in the guy. Yes. He kept complaining about the few provisions, which was a great because he was the one who told them

how much it supplies to get. Right. That's cool. And it was made worse because he had a very high pitched and whiny voice. Oh, no. No. We're going to be out of jerky. I was coffee all over my eye again.

We're fucked. We're so lost. This is you. You're the guy and you told us how much food to bring. Oh, my God. You cannot. Oh, my God, there's fucking. You cannot. Holy shit, there's fucking. You cannot.

There's, there's, there's caramel. Take a cheese, take a cheese break. We're taking it in a, uh, intermission. Uh, no cake for us. Thank you. We're professionals. Oh, my God. There's fucking. Holy shit. You cannot. There's, there's, there's caramel. Take a cheese break. We're taking an intermission.

No cake for us, thank you. We're professionals. You've got to have some. Yeah, I'm gonna. Oh, well. Next time there's a picture that comes up, I'm gonna fuck that cake up. This just turned into a two-part episode. Just tail into the first half, 30 minutes of Dave Eaton cake. I definitely like the idea that we're gonna be talking about

a group lost in the mountains with few provisions while Dave eats cake. LAUGHTER Anyway, they were out, they were out of everything. So, must've been terrible. They'd eaten their third horse. Oh my God. Can I have more of the caramel dip in sauce?

That is just the one when you knew you knew You did this You did It was going in a real weird direction So some like not are not hiding how much they dislike Alfred. He was accused of stealing from the others and hogging supplies. He's terrible. Nutter said he, quote, would build up a fire,

bake up a great cake of... Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Wow, wow. He would build up a cake. He ate, he was on stage with cake. He had a cake. He loved cake. The waitress brought him a free cake.

Sorry. The cake was free and he ate the cake. He was a birthday boy in his head that day. He had the cake. He was a special little boy, and he had a cake. He'd driven all the way to Denver to do a show, but he had cake instead. He ruined the show for cake.

He was on his cake break. I love cake. For goodness' cake, he thought. Hello, cake! Another said he quote, would build a fire, bake up a great cake of bread bigger than a dinner plate, and sneak off of an under-us-coat to eat it because the other fellows cheered him for his greediness.

So, but they saw him baking the bread. Right? 19 guys around a fire. They're going to notice you baking the cake. Hey, where's that bread that you baked? Bread? Around the fire. We're all sitting around.

Oh, no, that wasn't bread. That was wood. Well, I'm going to go off to the woods for an hour or so. We can hear you chewing, Alfred. I'm not chewing. I'm coming up with a plan. I know which way to go. You are an absolute psychopath.

LAUGHTER This is already our worst show. Everything you've done is terrible. You cannot either eat it or don't eat it, but you cannot treat this like you're on the bake-off. I think I put strawberry... What are you for? Listen to your voice. I think I put strawberry sauce on the cake.

On the front half, and I'll put the raspberry on the back. I put raspberry on the back of my cake. Alfred, all of a sudden started asking the other man how much money they had on them. You guys got money? We need money. Would you guys bring out the wilderness? Like, do you have money? We should pay that tree.

I'll give it a... Let's all say, let's just all yell out how much money we have. Net worth on the count of three. Let's go. So the other men don't like him, but McGrude doesn't see it this way. He and Alfred were sleeping together in a wagon, and he felt badly for Alfred because of his epilepsy, and no one else seemed to care. The first time Alfred had a seizure during the night, MacGrew called for help, and they said, quote, damn you, you want him along, now take care of him. Yeah, it shows you how much they didn't like

him. MacGrew didn't get why they all hate him so much. Alfred was avoiding staying with the others as much as possible. Since Alfred didn't know the land or had a guide, others now had to ride ahead to find a route. And they're running out of food and with the snow, there was nothing to hunt. They started talking about eating... No, the horses.

Yes, the horses. Cake, cake, cake, cake. We had a cake with them. They'd be saving it. Cheesecake, the horse. We've said this on this show many times, but when you go off into the wilderness, the horses should be like, oh fuck!

I'm not coming back! Yeah, and it just takes one guy to be like, should we eat a horse? For 15 days, nothing but barley. On January 25th, 1874, they came across a band of Yut Indians. After convincing the Yut they were just passing through, Chief Ure, Ure through chief Ure.

Yeah. Chief Ure offered to help. So he's offering to help these idiots. He said traveling in winter was a certain death. And they could stay near the Yut Village in a tell spring thaw. Okay. He guided them to a really great spot to camp and, quote, treated us like brothers.

The youth sold the group food to last through the season, but after a week, a bunch of the guys wanted to leave. Smart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what you're doing. Get out of there. They can handle this. It's only winter.

Why would I listen to these guys? They've just been living here for fucking centuries. Mingo. Move on. Five, including Loutzenheiser, decided to walk 80 miles east to a cow camp. A cow camp? A cow camp, a government set up for the youth.

So like, yeah, they had cows like in case things were bad. Sure. Which they were going to. Right. And if you've read history. Yeah. Yeah, it had cows like in case, you know things were bad sure, which they were going to right and a few fret history Yeah, yeah, it's not good. I do a podcast about it. Oh shit. Yeah. Yeah, this guy's an idiot needs cake So that's the only idiot on the show. Yep. What's the other guy do? Well, he used to be the dumbass until this guy got cake obsessed And then one guy's just a guest who's no one's listening to his podcast. It's just taking a meta turn. So, as these guys start to leave, Alfred tries to follow.

But Lao Tsunhizer pulls out a gun and points at them and said, if he did, there would be trouble. That's great, though. That's great for him. Yeah. Yeah. Stay back. Yeah. Yeah. This is where the story should end. This should be the clean break. The story should have ended when Ure was like, hey, you guys can stay here. Oh, great. All right. We'll stay here. Yeah. Oh, great. All right, we'll leave in the spring. Yeah, great. Yeah, that should have been where it ended.

Yes. Yeah. Three weeks later, two of those men stumbled into the cow camp. They ran out of food and had been eating berries. And three had given up and just stopped. The men at the cow camp tracked back and saved the other three. OK. A few days after those men had left, six others also and then he met at the cow camp, tracked back and saved the other three. A few days after those men had left,

six others also left the camp. One was Alfred. There was also Israel Swan, who was in his 60s, and supposedly had a lot of cash on him. There was 60-year-old George Noon known as California. Nice. Nice to meet you from California.

No, never know. For a California Noon, what a cool fucking name. Right. Yeah. Ginger Shannon Wilson-Bell. Okay. A guy named Philly, a guy from Philly named James Humphrey and Frank Ready Miller, who was a butcher.

Nice, he's going to come in real handy when they've got to eat each other in a couple of weeks. And Reddy hated Alfred more than anyone. So we tried to talk them into staying, but he couldn't. And so he drew them a map on the ground and told them to go east for seven days to get to the cattle camp. And for some reason they chose this guy named Alfred Packard to be their guide. Oh shit. But it hasn't worked so far. He's due!

On February 9th, they set out and immediately got lost. Nice. Well, they didn't follow the ground map. Yeah, I don't know why that didn't work. Weird, you can't take that with you, I guess. The snow was deep, forcing them to walk on ridges, which was not their plan. After nine days, they had eaten the last of the flower.

Days after that, Noon offered his goat skin moccasins as food. Well, you want to eat this guy's shoes? What do you think? Who Hollywood news? Sure, man. And you guys, all right, save some room for shoe boys. How do you like your shoe? I've been wanting to eat your shoes for so long.

Man, you had the best shoes to eat by far. Hi, hi. How you shoes? What? How are your shoes, fella? Good. Great. I need them to walk through the snow.

Mind if I get a lick? I mean, I guess. I don't know. Sure. Have a taste, I guess. Oh. All right. I'm going to move a little ways away now for a while.

I'm gonna move a little ways away now for a while. I guess you'll see you. Yeah. Shoe fella. All right. Okay. So... All right, I'm probably gonna turn in. Call it a night.

Okay. You're going to go to sleep right here in the tent with you. All right. Here we are. Yeah. Well, good night. I'm going to go to sleep with my shoes. Fuck. Yeah.

I had a thought of that one. I really thought I had them that time. That's not your inner monologue. So they roasted and they ate the shoes. Nice. That's what you do with shoes. Yeah. That's what I do with Asics. Every few days, they ate moccasins till they were out.

So they ate everyone's shoes anywhere? No, everyone, I think it was spare, right? Oh, they had spare shoes. For when you get to the cow camp, because you have your boots, you put them in the moccasins. Right, right. Bring a shoe you can eat or wear, depending on how good the journey's going.

Now, if we're wearing these at four weeks, we'll be on Easy Street. Uh, they ran out of matches, and so they carried burning coals and a coffee pot. Nice. It's going fine! Yeah. No matches, no shoes.

Just, yeah, snowbound, we're doing it. It's all good. They tried eating rose buds and pine gum to ease the feeling of hunger. It didn't work. But they tripped balls harder than they ever had. Coming out stronger and united as a group because of it. They went into Alfred State.

They cried and they yelled and they prayed. Nice. Which one worked the best? An early April, a small party of euths came upon a white guy, camped by the river Gunnison, Gunnison River, whatever you want to call it. There it is. Woo! She's a bit!

He was cooking meat. He was taking it off the fire when he saw the euths and he left the meat, ran over, picked up something and threw it into the river. It washed up and was found by one of the euths later, it was a human arm with the flesh removed. Oh, oh, oh boy. Yeah. Out of shoes, I guess. She says. What, the idea, so what? Out of shoes, I guess. LAUGHTER Jesus.

What, the idea, so what? I think now do you take this skin off because you want to... Put the calories, like you don't want to eat that many calories? Yeah, for sure. I'm on a diet. No, I respect, man. Probably the hair. Oh, yeah, hair.

I mean, I don't know. I guess you could cook that off. No, guys have hair, you know, especially these guys. They're all like apes back then. Oh, OK. Yeah. Still, the idea that he was like, they can't know my secret. And they're like, look an arm. Oh, shit.

Whew. On April 16th, the snow was melting. And a not at all starving Alfred came out of the woods. Ha-ha-ha-ha. Confidently strode out of the woods. Toothpick just... Whoo! What's up?

Happy spring. You were wrong. Everything was cool out there. Oh, I'll put on the Frontier 15. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Chunka Monkey, oh man. Frontier 15. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I mean, his shoes, his back is in shoes. Only his shoes. He was seen by an employee at the Los Pinos Indian Agency. Oh, nice.

Well, that's very rolled into. He had a rifle and a coffee pot with lit coals in it. Quote, he didn't see many different from many other men who have been exposed to the cold winter weather. So the employees asked Alfred where he was going and how long he had been walking, but Alfred didn't answer. So he took Alfred to the mess hall to eat. And the men. Did he have any guy? The men in the mess hall all told different versions of what happened.

One said Alfred was crazy looking and haggard, another said well fed, another said insanely hungry, another that the food met him sick and he just wanted whiskey. So everyone's got a different version of kind of what happened. Those could all kind of coexist, I think. Maybe. They all agreed. He said he left the camp with five others, but they left him when he was snow-blind. So he said they fucked him over, right?

They just bailed on him. Right. Left him out there. They said they would come back for him, but they never did, and after some time, he wandered off to find the agency. So just hours after Alfred arrives, three men from the camp, including Preston Nutter, right in. They had left when the snow melted just two weeks before. So the other guys who left early made a super bad decision.

Right. When Alfred saw them, he was really upset. And Nutter asked where the other five Benwer and Alfred said, he didn't know because they left him behind when he went to hunt. Hmm. She's different than Snowblind thing, he just said. Yeah. You know, whatever.

Sure. It's the same thing. That's Snow Amnesia. Leave me alone. After a few days Alfred said he was, quote, Tired of Colorado. It's this damn state. And he said he wanted to go back to Pennsylvania, but he had no money. And so he sold this rifle for $10.

Then he nutter, and another member of the group headed to Sawatch, which was an 11-day trip. So another, I don't know why, not her hates him, but he's like, yeah, I'll go with you to this place. All right. So another notice Alfred had ready the butcher's skinning knife. Hmm, strange in a couple of ways. Where's the butcher while you need it?

Oh, he's out there somewhere. Mm-hmm. Alfred said ready, it stuck the knife in a tree and then just walked off. He was weird. That's fucking nice. That's so creepy. He was real weird.

That was the last day of eight of them. It's all of them. Part of them. Ha, ha, ha. What a taste. Guy. Tender man. Crispy one cooked, I think.

No idea though, Verger. This is a regular man. A man's man. Crispy wouldn't cook, I think. No idea though, Verger. This is a regular man. A man's man. Kind of guy you get caught between your teeth, if you don't watch yourself. That's a weird way to put it. Yeah, sort of guy you can't shake until you grab him out. Kind of guy you want to take home to mom, and feed her. So another said he did not believe that at all.

And when they arrived in Sowich, Alfred went straight to a saloon. And he just started buying drinks because all of a sudden he had a ton of cash. In retrospect, I think putting him in charge of all this was a bad move. And it's two weeks there, he spent $100 in the saloon, which would be about $2,000 today. Fuck yeah. By the way, two weeks? I could have done that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a big kid. It's a big kid. Come on, dude, and on. Come on, page. Come on. Shots. This price?

Good Lord. Yeah. Tip, come on. This was obviously suspicious to the other guys in the party who keep arriving in the town and somewhere between being broken Utah and now Alfred had a bunch of money. So all these men that are coming to town start getting rooms in the lodge, so Alfred asked the owner if he could sleep in the saloon because he didn't want to sleep in the lodge with those guys.

Sure. I've made that move before. Yeah. Who wants to sleep here tonight? He's not going to kill me. How much to live here tonight? He's my best to kill me. How much do you live here for a few days? You guys really got a good system.

You guys sleep in the kitchen or the mobs go? So he slept on the mud floor eating oysters and peaches. Wow. Fuck yeah, man. That's the life. A lot of people say drinking is kind of like sad and gross, but then you're laying in mud, eating peaches and oysters. And you realize you're doing fine.

You cake weirdo. Yeah. Yeah. Oh shit. I like this whole episode about cannibalism. You have this audience. It's like oysters and peaches. Uh-uh-uh-uh. We have a line.

Alfred. That's like, best thing he's eaten in months. He's getting back to normal. He's reactivating. Yeah. Yeah. I started with everything soft. Yeah.

Tuck, tuck, tuck. Oh, peaches are the oyster fruit. I am used my teeth now for human flesh. Ah. He talked with the owner a lot. He said he just ate rose buds and while he was lost. Yeah. For the owner, he offered to loan the owner $300 if he needed it.

Which is fucking $6,000. By the way, if you need like six grand, I got it. You're eating peaches off of the floor. I know, I'm doing pretty good to be frank with you. Let me know if you need a floater of any kind. I am doing pretty well personally. Man, a lot of money I have in my recent expedition. I'm also a Duke in Austria.

Sure you are Alfred. Let me go. Oh, here's a muddy oyster. Jesus Christ. I almost feel like you and comedy works like came up with, like, some marketing. Yeah. That's the strawberry.

I don't think I'll ever want someone to be done with cake more. It's a crazy thing to be like, I can't wait for this cake to be done. Can't wait. Don't be you're happy. I can't wait for this cake to be done. Can't wait. I hope you're happy. By now... By now the men in the party were loudly asking questions, so Alfred decided to get out of town. All right, I'll settle this. I'll leave.

He bought a horse and supplies, but as he was getting ready to leave, General Adams, who was in charge of the Indian Agency, arrived. He put together a party to look for the missing men and asked Alfred to be the guide. Why I'd love to go on a mission with you, tasty, herb men. Alfred said he would need to be paid and Adam's agreed. Oh my God, this guy's hit the lottery. Why would anyone hire him again?

Because there's nobody to be like, he was awful? I guess not, I mean, it's crazy. No, he doesn't know. I don't get it. Yeah, there's no, he's not good at it. They do, okay, yeah. But he, like he is the guy who let, who knows where they were walking last. Sure. That kind of makes sense. Sure. Yeah, right. Okay. Maybe he's just the most

confident fucking dude. Yeah. He just like, he can't miss. He just goes in there. He's like, I'm, yeah, I'm the guy from the guy. I'm your guy. I'm like, you have a total fucking idiot. I wish we had that example of that in America. Well, the idea that he's like, if you're gonna go, you wanna go find where I was, I can lead you on that expedition. Yeah, you should be able to look at these footprints. I think I was right around you. Yeah, those are yours.

This way, follow me. This is some of my urine. I think I'm close. What? This is some of my urine. I think I'm close. What? Yes, some of my scat on the tree. I like areas like this. They comfort me.

No lead. Oh God, what's this? Oh my God. Oh my God. Look at God, there's strawberries out here. Super weird work from you. So, they run into McGrues' business partner on the ride and Alfred goes and talks to him alone and he told him the story but this time he added that quote, old swan had died. So now there's a new death just on top of you.

Whereas before they had all left him now, the old guy died. And that was the old guy with all the money. So when they arrived at the Indian Agency, men from the original party are there, and they accused Alfred of murder and wanted to lynch him. Wow. Wow. Unreal. You try to help some people.

Yeah, he's been a good guy. Yeah. Adams wouldn't allow it He tried to help some people. Yeah, he's been a good guy. Adams wouldn't allow it and he interrogated Alfred. Alfred first said he had no money, but when pressed about all the money he spent, he said he forgot. I forgot, guy, relax. Jeez. He then said he borrowed it from a blacksmith. He then said he borrowed it from a blacksmith. The general sent a man to go talk to the blacksmith, and the blacksmith said he did not loan Alfred money. I love the given that benefit of the doubt, though. They're like, all right, Alfred says he got it from a blacksmith.

Let's pause for eight days while we sent a guy to corroborate. We're down two men and Alfred's fatter. So Adams grilled Alfred with a new info. And Adam said he thought Alfred was more to be pitted than blamed, but he did want the truth. Okay. On May 4, Alfred came clean. He said, they misjudged how long it would take to get to the cow camp and ran out of food. And they dug up roots to eat

10 days after leaving swan died. So they roasted and ate him. I love roasted swan. Oh. Every Christmas, my family would have a roasted swan. The neck is decadent. Neckadent. Ooh, he is good. Put a bit of shoe on him. Oh! Oh! They also saved a little bit for the road. Yeah, all right.

That's, I don't know why I have more issue with that. It's one thing to like order your friend for dinner, but to get a doggy bag seems especially fucked up. All right, what do you say? We do some, what do you want? Swan lunch tomorrow? Breakfast swans? Yeah, this one sandwich sandwiches the day after Christmas.

There's better than the Christmas meal. Oh, a little cold swan. Oh my god. I'm tipped on back downstairs at midnight for extra swan. We're not even going to have a lot of swan for tomorrow. We've eaten most of the swan. Go. Unbelievable.

He's almost swan gone. Oh, unbelievable. He's almost swan gone. Another man died after five days. I did him. And he was eating. I did him. What do you say? How are you OK?

I think I could hold on. Don't do it for our benefit. We're famished. Go, go. Go to the light friend. Hurry. There you go. Oh. Alfred said he took $133 from that guy's wallet. So the rich people are dying in order, it seems like.

So what? A cash con. What are the odds? Days later Alfred said he came back from getting firewood to find two of the guys. I'd killed Ready the Butcher. And Ready had been pretty sick, and they ate him. I like to think that in order, like they were like calling out numbers when I was your turn to eat him.

64? Oh, let's be! No! I'll have a pound. A few days later, this is in days. You're eating a full human. Yeah. Like, you could like, wait a little bit longer.

You could say, I mean, you could slow it down. Yeah, you don't need to be like, you're gonna barely, you know? Yeah, like, boy, we better pound him. We've got fresh meat coming. We're just dropping like flies. So a few days later, the other guy shot California noon and they ate him.

So now it's Alfred and the last guy. Now, but they're just killing them to eat them? Yeah, okay. So it's taken a bit of a turn, because it's like, he died, we should eat him. And now it's like, let's kill him, hurry, I'm hungry. I've got the munchies. So out from the last guy make a pack not to kill and eat each other.

Hey, listen, I know we've done some crazy shit the last few days, but it ends between us, dude. I like you. I like what we got going on. I think I've satisfied whatever it was in me that needed this. Oh, yeah. I got that all out of my system.

I'm done. We should be able to find some grouse or something like that soon. I'm stuff to be honest with you. When this is over, let's start a band. I agree. I love it. Yeah.

Plus, we got all those swan burgers ready to go. So we got some swan. So yeah, deal. Not gonna kill and eat you, my friend. That is the promise I make back to you. There you go. No way, amigo.

Not happening. I don't even want to eat you. I would need you if you died naturally. I'd rather not sell, thank, oh, that would be a lot. I would need you if you died naturally. That means a lot. You're a hell of a guy. You're a hell of a guy.

You're an unbelievable man. You all right? Your resolve seems to be weakening. Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, because I'm still steadfast. We're not eating you. Not eating.

Not eating neither, buddy. Not going to do it. I'm not eating me or you, no way. Oh, but Jesus Christ. Night, night I get the, I get a little peckish. Anyway, you should go to bed. It's getting late. We should, you should turn in. I'll do watch, I'll watch.

I'll do night watch. You're gonna do first watch. I'll do first watch. You're good. Yeah, yeah. Yep, close'll watch. I'll do night watch. You get it? I'll do first watch. You get it? I'll do first watch. You're good. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Close those eyes. She just nod off over there.

You sexy meal. Okay, go ahead. Well, I ate him. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Days later Alfred said the other guy tried to hit him with the butt of his rifle as they sat at the fire but missed. And Alfred shot him and then Alfred ate that guy for a few days. Despite the promise. And then packed some of them up and started walking. Forbidden friend.

Mmm. Mmm. You just said ate that guy for a few days. Yeah. Then packed. I think like maybe one meal of that guy. And then go. And then we're going.

But a couple of days. Yeah. No, just carrying around. What is so much meat? Yeah. How do I carry it? Getting to that level where you're like, I have a snack. Oh, John.

So Adams calls in the prospecting party and Alfred told the story again to them. And Adams read the confession in Alfred signed it. Adams had said to report to DC with a note that said, he believed it was because Alfred was quite fat when he arrived. The idea that you're putting weight on during this is like, you're not doing it for survival. No.

You're just genuinely like, I've found my dish. You know? Guys, I get lost with. That's my meatkink. I get that Alfred did a lot of terrible shit, but for Adams to fat shame him like that? Is like, where do you get off, dude? Where do you get off?

That is so true. Yeah. Yeah. The prospectors did not buy the story. So Adams told Alfred to take a search party to the camp to confirm the story. Alfred's taking a search party? The Adams is, yeah, is saying take this.

How about this? Don't take Alfred on any more search. Where are they all? You're not gonna believe this. Jesus, what are you? 280? What's going on? You won't believe what has happened.

Well, we made a pact as we're off to do, but they just started dropping like flies, and I don't want to bury them in soil, so I buried them in me. He's riding a rascal scooter at the end of this shit as you see. It's like, He's riding a rascal scooter at the end of this shit if you see that. Yeah. It's like, it's like bird christrath yet of a tour.

Ha ha ha ha ha. Oh. You're pretty meaty for a detective. Shut the fuck up. Yeah. Oh. I have got to stop eating people. I'm just really packing it on.

But they're everywhere. So they leave two days later and the agency constable is in the party. And ford is in, he saw Alfred had the butcher's knife under his shirt and he demanded he turn it over. But that's my eat, okay. LAUGHTER How will I eat my friends? Quote, Alfred rushed at me with that knife.

Eh. And he was... He suppered! He wrestled it away and held Alfred. And as they got close to where the camp was, Alfred said he had no idea where anything was and refused to go on. Well, he really, quite an omission. Nother said he was a murder and should be hung right there.

Alfred was taken back to the Indian H.C. and the search party went on and found the camp, but nobody or rifle. I ate the rifle, too. I ate the people and all the evidence. Good luck closing this case. The perfect cry. That's right. They drained the lake by cutting a beaver dam, but found nothing.

I ate the beavers. And I drank the lake. What lake? The beavers are like, what the fuck? No. The cannibal story hit the press. The Rocky Mountain News headline was, man eaters in Colorado.

And it printed Alfred's version of the story. To the founders of Sawwich, meanwhile, discussed Alfred being in custody. And it was costing $5 a day to hold him. Oh my god. And there was no evidence the men were dead or that he had done anything wrong. But, babe, did he say that he'd eaten them?

There's no proof. But the guys, what guys? There's no proof they're dead. Pete, eat them. He hasn't done anything wrong. Uh, you're going to have to investigate my tum tum. They got life sentences in me. So they're like $5 a day?

Come on. Basically. That's a lot of money. Why don't we just let this... This can'table out. Alfred's like, I know a cheaper prison just through that pass. I'll lead you there. All right.

Wait a minute. So one day they share a photo. What is your celly? Celly? There would nobody with me in here. It's you on your face. You should probably be getting me a new cellmate pretty soon. So the sheriff goes out at time one day and the two men let Alfred out and give him provisions. You know, you know, you need him.

Now, John Randolph is a Harper's Weekly Artist and he's hiking two miles north of the lake on October 20th, 1874 when he comes across five bodies. One head was cut off, another head was crushed, all had meat removed, two were not destroyed and could be identified, and then prospectors came to look and Randolph sketched the bodies for harbors. Am I, is he only like eating the white meat? Like is is he like, oh, I don't like the dark meat as much. In a pinch, I'll make a man salad, but... I mean, it's kind of crazy, like, he must have killed the mother

who was sleeping, right? The two days later, a warrant was issued for Alfred Packer. On what grounds? The news was slow to make its way to the papers across the country. It wasn't until the second leg of September, all called Alfred a murdering cannibal, and a reward of 5,000 was put on his head. So people are scouring the country looking for him. No one found him.

Over time, people just kind of started to forget about how perfect you had never hike again. Jean Frenchy cabazon had been part of the original party. In 1883, nine years later, he was working as a peddler in the mining camps in Wyoming. Uh-oh. He's about to get eaten, dude. He sold oysters and peaches. On a mud floor. A particular form of kryptonite for one person. Oh. Do you hear something?

Oh, yes. What the fuck was that? Oh, no, no, no. Oh. Oh, yes. Soon, soon, soon, soon. Oh. Jean was a fort fetamin in a boarding house when he heard a high-pitched voice in the room next door.

Hello! He went to look at who was talking, the guy was missing parts of two fingers. It was Alfred. Alfred said he did not know who French he was, and he said his name was John Schwartz, and he was a prospector. The next day, French he went to the sheriff, and the sheriff sent it to his higher-ups. And a week later, the sheriff was ordered to arrest Schwartz based on the missing fingers and two front teeth, which is what Alfred is also missing, two front teeth. Amazing how much of his party he could eat with no front teeth.

He was. Alfred was taken a Laramy where word was out. A large crowd gathered at the station to get a look. Oh boy. After he was taken to Cheyenne, we're another crowd-weighted forum. And they pushed their way onto the train and then just stood staring at him.

Wow. So at this point, they're just taking him around on trains for people to stare at. You know, like, he traveled as a circus freak for the next 20 years. He's in the dining car. They put him in jail there, and the press was in there. What?

The press was in there. Right? The press was in there. Right. Into the jail to interview him. And Alfred said he had no idea why he was under arrest. And then he blurted out, quote, I plead guilty to the crime accused of. I mean, I plead innocent. I did not murder the men.

Whoa, all right, OJ, why don't you just fucking shill out? I plead guilty. They were tasty. I mean, it isn't. I don't eat, guys. The second, too. Use those.

The next day, he was cleaned up and had his picture taken. Wow. Looks great cleaned up. And, Mr. Manson, what makes you think you're capable of driving for Uber? Well, I got a bunch of out-tores and phone chargers.

Wrecking up pretty good with directions, as long as I got the GPS. Otherwise, things could get precarious for the passenger. That facial hair looks like he's finishing a dog. Like it's just an explosion of the tail's left. He's sucking it down. He's almost done with the dog. May I have another gin and tonic? You're in your Elvis' face.

Yeah, that works. This is just crazy. She's gaking gin. Is there any way to have the bar keep mix a cake with tenk grade? Can Dave sleep in the floor in the bar? Possible. Where are your oysters? You can take gray.

May I lick peaches off the ground of this lovely establishment? We can't find the bartender. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, So the reason they took this picture was because they could sell it. So people like to buy pictures of weirdos. The man eat them. So this is a high demand. General Adams was brought to ID him and escort him to Denver. Alfred told- Fucking hilarious, the amount of cities that have gotten applause tonight.

Literally, every other city that's been mentioned. The one that we are sitting in right now was mentioned. And everyone was like, okay. Interesting. We're a humble people. We're a humble people. I've been there before. Denver, that's interesting.

I've heard of that town. Continue, David. So Alfred told Adams what he'd been doing over the nine years. He was for eating. And said he was ready to take back his first abit and tell the truth. But only if Adams would protect him in Denver. No, no, no, no.

Sorry, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Worst baseball team. That's just true. That is just true. Airport where Dick Cheney spent 9-11. Fuck yeah. So there were a thousand people waiting in Denver. One reporter wrote, quote, when he came out of the car, the poor God forsaken creature looked around in a dazed way,

finding not one friendly face in that crowd, not one person set a friendly word to it. What are they supposed to? Yeah. Hi, Mr. Cannell, you look at the bowl. I love your eating. I love your eating. I love to eat people.

Any first impressions of the city? What do you think? What do you plan on eating while you're here? He's like the Beatles of eating his friends. He's the Edels. I want to eat your head. I want to eat your head. I wanna eat your head. Lucy in my mouth with shoes. Have you seen Polatheed Pem?

I ate her, yes, I ate her. I ate her. Wow, it's happening to the Beatles. I'm kind of a leg man. I ate your friend Gus. I ate your friend Gus. He was taken to the jail shackled and he made his second confession to Adams. This time he said they set up camp and he went to scout. And when he returned, everyone was sleeping except for Bell. And then Bell charged him with a hatchet, Alfred quote,

I shot him sideways through the belly. He fell on his face and the hatchet fell forward. I grabbed it and hit him on the top of the head with it. He said Bell had already killed the others and some of ready the butcher was roasting. His name was Ready? Ready the butcher. That was his nickname. It's weird that they're already cooking the butcher and he's ready. This is like when you get to pick your lobster out of the tank.

And how's Bell? He said Bell had already killed the others. The snow was too high to trek, so he camped and just ate some of the guys. Hey, you know, and took some of the money. When Adams asked why he had not just told the story in the first place, he said, quote, I was excited. I wanted to say something. And the story, as I told it, came first to my mind. Wait, what? He was excited. He wanted to just talk and say some shit. And then he just kind of,

the story just kind of happened. He just kind of said stuff. You know, like you do when you eat some guys. I guess I felt kind of guilty about eating all those guys. Have you ever had to tell someone I killed five guys in A.D.M. like it's a hard... Is that how five guys started? Taste like it. Wow, we just blew the lid off of something huge here tonight. I mean, that doesn't not make sense.

Yeah. It's crazy enough to get a special, like a forensic files or something, or a guy's grocery games, or a free meal at five guys. Yeah, or yeah, free meal. So do you ever see the fifth guy? Nope. Nope. I'll blow this place wide fucking open.

If you don't give me a free burger right now. I know what you did. His new confession was written up and he signed it Alfred, Alfred Packer. Like my tattoo. Yeah. So the papers went fucking nuts. Headlines like, Putrid Packer captured cannibal,

man eating murder, human jerked beef. Human jerked beef. They had a good iteration run until human jerked beef came out of my mouth. All right, we're officially out of headlines. That one sounds like he's in the jack shack. Human jerked beef came out of my mouth. All right, we're officially out of headlines. That one sounds like he's been the jackshack. Human jerking beef, brazing on meat, dendurizing his own beef.

Diet of human stakes, a cannibal who naws on the choice cuts of his fellow man. Nice. A white cannibal. A white cannibal, right? Actually, could I actually get a white cannibal when you get a second? I love that. Wow.

A sickening guy. So they were just like, throw every headline you can at this one. Oh, yeah. They said Alfred was lying and he was blamed for murders all over Colorado at this point. Alfred was to be tried in the mining town of Lake City, which was the closest to the murder location. Who taught you how to woo? Their parents in Lake City. The murders town.

Woo! Murder town! Let's go headchitz! So while he's in jail, this guy named Nathaniel Hunter starts visiting him, Nathaniel Hunter had been at the Los Pignos agency when Alfred rolled in. And Hunter said Alfred told him when he was acquitted, they should all put a slune together in DC, which would do well because it was fame. Quote, I will let my hair and beard grow, dress up in western style, put up a big sign announcing that the place is run by Packer, the man-eater,

and we will rake in more money than we can know what to do with. Man, I love him. After all that, he's like, but if I don't do the hair and the beard, no one's gonna come, like me. We've got to have that authentic guy. It's a great story, but without that, no one's buying it.

Well, I'm all you can eat, floor peaches. Oh my God, can you imagine, I love the burger. It's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, your expedition is ready. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That night, Alfred told the jellar that there were so many women at the trial he thought he could quote easily, Marya Lake City woman. I mean, those Lake City chicks are pretty easy. I gotta do that as say. Jesus Christ. Well, that's such a classic guy. It's like, bro, you're a trial for eating your party. He's like, I think I'm gonna get laid out of this. He thinks he's gonna get laid out of this.

He thinks he's gonna get laid and be rich. Yeah. I'm gonna make a lot of fucking money and get a lot of chips. Yeah, I'm gonna be eating pussy. He's like going down on women. Going down on women. Going down on women. To be clear.

Although when I'm down there. Oh, Alfred. Oh, yeah. Oh, Jesus Christ. Oh, yeah. Oh Jesus Christ. Oh my God my stomach. Oh I finished did you And you want me to apologize for the cake. That's right. He was found guilty and given a death sentence by hanging. Alfred was furious. I like that we've heard that so many people have been hanged on this show, but that's the first time I've ever heard he was furious He took the new stuff, it's death sentence, pretty hard, he was pretty p-oed

What the fuck, I was gonna open a bar! Yeah, you're on the amount of push you just cost me. Jesus Christ. May I eat myself for my last meal? He threatened to witnesses if he ever got the chance. Several papers said it was a travesty of justice. One felt Alfred's story was consistent and natural. Natural? Natural. It's a beautiful thing that he went through. What a man!

It's starving for a man. What are we gonna do? Try bears? Yeah. Where do we draw the line, Your Honor? May I even eat lamb? Or is that a crime? Where do we draw the line, Your Honor? May I even eat lamb, or is that a crime? Yeah, that's actually a crime. Well, I've eaten lamb. J.C. Fischer wrote, quote,

while there is much about the man that is uncanny and revolting, men are not hang for such matters by law. What? Oh, this guy's a real sickening piece of shit, but that's not why we hang people. I'm defending you Alfred. Oh yeah. You fucking maggot of a human. But we don't hang them for being maggots of humans, do we?

No. You fucking garbage dump. But a living one. What are you about? 210205? I've been fattening up for you. You buttery. Oh.

I take back what I've said. Yeah. Yeah. We had to get into gesture just from thinking of eating you. The paper said if he had been tried in another city, he would have been acquitted. Afterwards Alfred's lawyer found the murder statute on the books in 1874 had been repealed and replaced. You know, here's something, after they've already found you guilty, you can't be tried for murder. Well, that's right. Yeah, so it's a great lawyer to be like, well, I looked into it a little bit. I started working after they found you

guilty and we can't do anything about it, really. Turns out murder's cool here. It seems like you can actually murder here. Your crime was eating. Well, yeah, so it had been repealed and replaced without a saving clause. What, it's a technicality, basically. And it reversed Alfred's decision.

Holy shit. Oh, my God reversed Alfred's decision. Holy shit. Oh my god, he's opening the restaurant. Oh. Oh, chain of him, one-in-time square! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha In the second trial in August 1886, the jury found him guilty of voluntary manslaughter in about 40 years. This was the longest term ever at this point by an American judge. What, what we blow that away? Yeah, seriously.

It's amazing. In the Benitentiary, he kept seeking exoneration. And a barber in Denver named Duane Hatch had been treated well by Alfred when he worked with him on a cattle ranch, so he started visiting Alfred and found him to be a pretty nice guy. Oh boy. And he was falling into the honey pot. And he was a model prisoner.

Sure. Alfred was using his pension to give money to parole prisoners so they could start over. The warden quote, Packer is the soul of generosity and apparently cares nothing for money. Excuse me. Yes, he does. He does. He killed the rich guys first. Yeah.

Yeah, but he said all of us. I like that move, by the way. He's invented all of the oysters and guys first. Yeah. Yeah, but he said all of us. I like that move, by the way. He's subjected all of the oysters and peaches. Yeah. He's not. He didn't hear about him giving them to anybody. He was just from South. Yeah.

That's true. Yeah. Hatch began working to get important. He hired lawyers, he started a petition. And after a while, the public started to see Alfred as the victim who was convicted by circumstantial evidence. Oh, dumb. This is like the way everyone stops saying Bill Gates is a fucking villain.

Oh, good, she is. I was just thinking- Enjoy the rest of the party. I was just thinking- Look, Nando bots in the vaccine! Oh, come on. He's Epstein's buddy. Leave him alone.

Hey. He's awesome. He's a good guy. Bill Gates. Bill. all right, come on, move on, whatever. Oh boy, we all smell a dollop coming, don't we? There's nothing you could say that I mean Bill Gates, for me, can't fuck, he's perfect. Yes, yes, don't read about his childhood. A Denver Post reporter took up the cause, and soon most of Denver's leaders were on board. So, wow. And Charles, Governor Charles Thomas,

he paroled Alfred with his last act in office on January 1901. Wow. What a way to go out. Yeah, fuck it, release back here, I'm done. Well, that's what they do. They're last day in office on January 19, 19-01. Wow. What do we do to go out? Yeah, fuck it, release Packer, I'm done. Well, that's what they do. They're last day in office.

They always do that crazy shit. So he's like, it was been an honor to work for you. The citizens, you've taught me so much about myself and each other, I'm free Packer. Goodbye. Wait, what? Each people, see you later. Pfft.

Pfft. One thing Alfred had to agree to I'll see you later. I'll see you later. I'll see you later. I'll see you later. I'll see you later. I'll see you later. I'll see you later. One thing Alfred had to agree to was to not profit off the notoriety. Boy, I know, I mean. I got into boi. He's like a character actor. Yeah.

He's like that guy. You're like everything he's in. He freaks me out. He's like that bad guy in like movies. You're like, oh, that dude. He's like the third worst guy in a crew. I think he looks a little like Bob Newhart. Oh, man.

Bob Aidhart. He looks like Putin, he doesn't like Putin. Yeah? Holy shit. Wait a minute. Fred Putin. Yes, the comedian. Fred Putin. I mean, do we know where Putin was in 1873?

You're sniffing around the wrong area, Edam. Relax. Don't worry, I wasn't there. Take a look at the top! Take a look at view of this window. Look out further. Really smell the air. OK, what a weird little thing you've developed over the show. Just having a good time like I'm out on a balcony in the country. Mm-hmm.

Having a little cheesecake and gin and tonic. Yeah. All good stuff that translates to an auditory format. Someone's driving their car going, I bet that he's eating cake. 590 episodes is, and this dumbass doesn't know what editing is. 590. No one's gonna know shit about the fucking cake, but the people who lived it.

fucking cake but the people who lived it. The same. Congrats, Dave. You've really nailed it. Sweet victory. So Alfred got a job as a security guard at the Denver Post. But also prospected in the foothills. Sure he did. Yeah, sure he did.

The foothills. No. I'm kind of shoes with those. I'll take the security guard job, but I gotta have my weekends free to prospect and lead a little bit. So a few people left their IDs, it didn't come collect them. Mm-mm-mm.

Mm-mm. Whoa. He always wanted to clear his name, but he died on April 24th, 1907. In 1989, a group of, a group exhumed the skeletons. And the analysis showed defensive cut wounds and knife marks of defleshing.

They concluded Alfred was the murderer. Recently. Yeah, I don't know. Could have left them in there. We kind of knew, right? They were like, well, we've analyzed Alfred's body. You're not gonna believe this. He actually did kill people in Adam.

Yeah, we know. All right, well, the smell was unbelievably bad. You were a mask, wouldn't you? I don't choose, I choose not to. I like to be in the elements. Christ. We've also determined he went to his grave without a bath. He's a stinky man.

Anyway, we laid in there a while. Layed in there? Yeah. I laid with him. Yeah. I ate him. There wasn't really much there. He was braised. She's slow cooked.

Recently, the curator at Grand Junction's Museum of Western Colorado tracked down... Is it a fucking joke? The fuck just happened. I don't know. Someone's like... It's my museum, baby! Man, Jack Jim Museum!

Number one. It's my local Denver silence. Grand Jack Jim Museum. Booker! It's my one. Recently, the curator at the Grand Junction Museum of Western Colbert, outtracked down a cult revolver found at the site with three chambers still loaded. They compared samples from the lead in the bullets and lead from soil beneath Bell's exhumed body, they matched supporting Alfred's claim

that he shot Bell. So the, oh! So does that support that Bell killed all those other people? And then, well, it could, but he also could have just shot Bell. Yeah, that's what it is.

Like, right. So there's not really like any like, boom, it's like, all right, yeah, so he killed him too. Yes, he did. Even with your bombshell, I don't know if I believe Alfred Packer yet. Yeah. I'm full on Alfred Packer's side. That dude was the cream of the crop,

and anybody who says otherwise can go fuck themselves. Yeah, shit. Yeah. Look at him all high on cake. Yeah, no, he really is. It's going to be great when he's backstage in 10 minutes sleeping. Like, if he does edit the cake references out,

people will be like, why did he get so sassy over the course of the episode? The episode will be like, Alfred came back the earlier that he was actually. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. that he was actually... Mmm. That's a really weird episode. Fortunately, I did not write down the book that this came from, so I'll put it in later.

Oh, here it is. No. Man, either the life and legend of an American cannibal by Harold Schechter. Wow. Man. So, and is that, how do I'll know it, is that story around here? Like, the packer and everyone knows Alfred Packer the cannibal.

Like, everyone knows there was a cannibal, but I didn't know any of those details whatsoever. That's what I figured it out. That's what I figured it out. It's like if you're from a place you hear about the famous person, but you don't really know about them. Yeah. Well, and it's nice to finally hear about the people he ate, I'm sure.

Absolutely. The story behind the dish. What about you fucking losers? Can you imagine getting killed five people getting killed by Alfred Packard? No shit. It really is crazy. Like, he fell in a fire.

Like, the guy who got him out of the fire like, you there! You should be okay. Like that, like, ripple effect of that. But that's like part of the thing that makes me go, all right, got to kill some people. Like, they were just, it you just fucking able to smile. They just didn't like him essentially

because he had grandmals seizures. I mean, at the end of the day, that's why people did that. I love, I don't disagree, but I love that you're like, you're gonna have to eat a couple people. Yeah, well, sometimes you gotta learn a fucking lesson. Yeah. Right? This is how people learn to respect people

that I grandmell seizures. Yeah, no, for sure. He did a lot. When I hear that name, I always think, wow, he did a lot for those who have seizures. That's right. And this is why you never bully people who have seizures even when they've led you

off into a blizzard. And you respect them. You're still respect them. You know, it's just bad. Yeah, I do think you had to be nice to Alfred the whole time where he eats you. Yeah. Yeah, no, great job Alfred, I always wanted to die out here.

Oh my God. Sorry about your condition. Shall we lady in the tramp the butcher now, friend? Oh my God. Just to let you know Dave, you have a cake on your pants. Don't wheel. Or it's that seaman from when you saw it get brought out. I hope it's cake.

Oh, no, that's seaman. Oh, jeez. Well, that's the end of the podcast. Give it up for our guest, Adam Cain Holland, everybody. Thank you for coming. We'll see you tomorrow. Appreciate it. Thank you.