The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 641 - Black Caesar with guest Tom Cardy - live

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

Comedians Gareth Reynolds and Dave Anthony examine OG Australian Black Caesar. Recorded live in Canberra with guest Tom Cardy Tour Dates Redbubble Merch Sources   Rocket Money Nutrafol - code DOLLOP Litter Robot - code DOLLOP

And we're brought to you by Airbnb Canada. Listen, I'm on the road a tremendous amount all the time. My life is travel and I always go with Airbnb if I can just because you get a better experience. And my mother was in town recently and I ended up booking her an Airbnb instead of a hotel and she just had hip surgery. So I had to find a place that was very accommodating to her needs and found a place that she still talks about to this day. You know, like I've said before, I always like a home over a hotel. I call it a home tell. No, I don't. But I really like it. And she, like I said, she really, really appreciated it.

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You can find it with rocket money. They don't. I was paying over $20 in subscriptions every month, probably about 30 that I had no idea I was paying over $20 in subscriptions every month, probably about $30 that I had no idea I was paying for. Whatever. I had an ear cream. I had a monthly subscription to an ear cream. That's right. Okay.

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by going to rocketmoney.com slash dollop. That's rocketmoney.com slash dollop. Rocketmoney.com slash dollop. Hey. Hey, hey, hey. Yeah! Thank you. Huh. You're listening to the dollar. Oh boy, sorry. You blew it. You had a chance. This is an American history podcast where each week I read a story from American history, sometimes Australia.

My name is Dave Anthony. I read you that guy. The energy is there. sometimes Australia. My name is Dave Anthony, I read you that guy. The energy is there. Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. You know, you've heard it. And we have a guest tonight. No, but he's fucking great, he's been on the show before,

we're very excited to have him. Give it up for Tom Cardy, everybody, let him hear it. Oh, man. Oh, man. Welcome, Tom. It's an honor to be performing in front of ice cream? Yeah, that's the woman who's eating ice cream and drinking champagne.

What is that, Magnum? And acting like we're weird. 1763. Yeah. Yeah. Or 1763. Yeah. Yeah. Or 1764. We don't know. I don't think I'm gonna get hung up on this one.

We don't know. A baby boy was born in Madagascar. That's the place. Not the movie? Not the movie. Yeah. Not the movie. During the movie. Yeah. I want to see how this ends.

Yeah. We know nothing about his parents. We don't even know his name. Mystery Baby. Mystery Baby, okay. Let's call him John, Mystery Baby. Okay. In the 18th century, slave traders were forbidden

from operating in Madagascar. Okay. But, according to historian Cassandra Pibis, who is our main source today, several slave traders, quote, managed to circumvent the prohibition and import five shipments from Madagascar into Virginia. That's cool.

Well, that's, okay, great. It is so it's possible that's, okay, great. Good. It is, so it's possible that's how John ended up an enslaved child in America. Okay. In 1775, a war broke out because American colonialists in some places didn't want to be a colony or part of some bullshit commonwealth or have a dumb king or whatever.

So he's a loyalist, so you guys don't, if you don't know what a loyalist is, they're the ones who wanted to stay with England. What a weird move to make. To want to stay with England? Well, to come to the States and then just be like, I like what we had going on over there. There were a lot of people that did,

they never left, these guys. I know, yeah. Haven't you ever been to a party and be like, let's go to the other party, this party's shit. And then you go to the other party and be like, man, the party's pretty good. Yeah, are you asking if I've ever done cocaine? Yep, and also, do you have any?

Okay, so Lord Dunmore called for all slaves in the American colonies to rise up and join the British army. Dunsmore moved, so he goes onto a British warship on the James River and he says any slaves who want to escape can come and fight with me against the colonies. It's an interesting conundrum. Yeah.

Yeah, they're like, I really, this whole thing fucking sucks to be quite honest with you. Yeah, what if I don't want to, what if I just want to go away? What if I'd like my own life? No, no option. Pick. I've got kilts for everyone. But at that point, you were like,

I can kill white people? And they're like, yeah, it's the option. And you're like, oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm down. So terrified white Virginians, they're fucking freaked out because there's a lot more slaves. So James Madison.

I'm a bit English, right? Little bit, yeah. Probably, right? Yes. Yes, right. You idiot. Probably not though, you're James Madison. So that means what?

I've been here for a while. Born in America, yeah. Well yeah, but how did the accent even, you know what I mean? No. No, no, no, fuck it. You've got a recording of me, motherfucker? I don't think you do.

Okay. It's the weirdest 60 minute interview of this guy I've ever heard. I sat down with James Madison, who fixated on what he sounded like. You don't know shit. The entire- Why did you say, no, fuck off.

The entire interview. I probably sounded a bit like this. Maybe a bit like this. What if I sounded like this? No. Get out, governor! No. Fucking worst.

Give the people what they pay for. It's, oh, that's stupid. So, James Madison is very worried about a slave rebellion. Quote, that is the only part in which this colony is vulnerable. We shall fall like Achilles by the hand of one that knows that secret. Not really a secret.

There's a lot more slaves. He's saying if anybody knows that secret. Our Achilles heel is being outmatched. There's being more of them. Being beaten is Our Achilles heel is being outmatched. There's being more of them. Being beaten is our Achilles heel. Don't tell them our weakness, which is a weakness in numbers. Shh.

Shh, they don't know. They don't know. They think there's more white people. Shh. They've only been to the suburbs. Oh boy. Oh boy. George Washington warned that Dunmore's rebellion

must be quashed or else slave defections would gain momentum. Quote, like a snowball in rolling. You got us hooked, but what are you going to do with the attention now? Is that your George Washington? That's pretty good. Dude, this is a pretty good fucking article. And I'm James Madison.

Ooh! Together. We are Madison and Washington. Can we get a six? One, two, three, four. Yeah! Chiboo, doodoo, do. Ha!

It's every fucking song. We're doing more of a concept government. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Take the ride. Accept government. Take the ride. So on the 14th of November, Dunmore declared martial law and published a proclamation freeing quote, all indentured servants, Negroes and others that are able or willing to bear arms.

A friend of Washington's, Landon Carter, he was in the Backstreet Boys. Oh yeah, yeah, right, LC. Yeah. So Landon Carter lost eight of his slaves to Dunmore. Okay. So Washington's like, personally like, he's like, my buddies are getting fucked over by this guy.

Right, they definitely were like, where's their loyalty? Boy, when are white people gonna catch a break in this country? We used to call them loyalists, but now we just call them jerks. This is brutal. Americans tried to discourage their slaves from leaving by threatening severe punishments,

but also offering a pardon to any slaves who returned to their duty. It's a bit like ice cream and champagne. It really is. It's a crazy, those are two very different options. Yeah. Look, I'll punish the shit out of you and then you're free to go. What do you think?

Which one works better? You come back to work forever, and I let you go. Understand? Trust me. When have I betrayed you? When have I been a dickhead? Come on! Think of me. So that doesn't work, for some reason. By the end of November, up to 300 escaped slaves had joined Dunmore on his slip-ship. And his slip. You hadip. And his slip.

You had a bit of a slip of the lip. He was slipping. But then a bunch of them died of smallpox. So. Oh, that's a bunch of leftover tartan little skirts, right? Yeah. These guys have a lot of kilts. Lot of kilts.

So as soldiers in the British army, ex-slaves could choose their own name. And most took the surnames of former owners, like George Washington's former slave became Harry Washington. This might be where John gets his last name, Caesar. So Caesar was... Or he just took it because it sounded cool. Yeah. Probably.

Who was... Okay. There might have been a Frank Caesar. Sure. Right. Not Julie's there. Or a Caesar salad. Yeah, right.

Sure. Oh yeah, the salad guy. Yeah. Maybe he liked the salad a lot. He's like, some salad, some croutons. Jesus, this guy. A bit of bacon if you're lucky, but make sure you read the menu.

We make it table side. What the fuck is going on over here? This guy smells like poached chicken and sadness. This guy keeps trying to rub mayo in my hair. He's just in his window like, we're still missing some ingredients. Come to bed, Julius. It needs to be crazy, but have very few vegetables. Sleep it off, think about it in the morning.

I don't know. Maybe we take some of that stale bread, stop and put it in the oven, enough, okay. Anchovies, go to bed, go to bed. Mayonnaise and anchovies. Go to bed. Maybe a bit of lemon. So, I mean, I don't know if you guys know this, but the British lost the war.

What? Fucking shit, dude. What? Well, we're not Argentina, you know what I mean? I know. Yeah, well, we're not Argentina, you know what I mean? I don't. And yeah, and obviously Benjamin Franklin became president. My man. So part of the surrender was that Americans could reclaim all their possessions, which

included slaves. So the British sent one ship, the Bonita, to New York to start to bring back their soldiers and officers to England and the governor of Virginia said quote, Negroes are trying to make their escape by getting aboard the Bonita where they will endeavor to lie concealed till the vessel sails. So that's exactly what happened. They just stow away and once it goes.

A bunch of slaves are like fuck this shit, I'm getting on the wayboat. Yeah, great great move. So a bunch of slaves escaped that way and The day if you're I mean it really shows how bad your options are if you're like, let's go with the British Literally nobody does that. Yeah, no offense You guys are great. What a roundabout. It's huge. It's really big roundabout. It's very big.

Right? Yo, could it get any rounder? So big and round. Imagine. That's Hamilton? Yeah. Kill him, kill him! Wait, hold on. Let me, let me, hold on.

The day that... Yo, it's Alexander Hamilton. Alexander Hamilton. From the musical. You couldn't think of any other lines, could you? Yeah, do a rap then. Do one of the great raps from the... Yo, what's this all about?

Look everywhere I look, it's a big old roundabout. Alexander Hamilton. Yo, I think I shot my kid. I did, I did. Or someone else did. I must confer. Oh no, it was that other guy, Aaron Burr. There's a song guy right next to you.

He's not doing anything. He knows when to produce and leave a gym alone. How much is the song guy to you guys? Yep. Yeah, that's fair. No, no Tom, no. That's fair. It's also really nice.

I've never been a guy at all. Wait, what? Did you just confuse yourself? Go ahead with the story this one. Okay, and we're back. Benjamin Franklin, George W. Bush. So the day the Treaty of Independence is signed in 1782, Americans threw in a quick note in the margins prohibiting, quote,

carrying away any Negroes or other property of the American inhabitants. So they tried to do a quick one. Quick one. The way that we were like corporations are people like in the margins and everyone's like, what the fuck just happened to everything? Nothing.

So the British commander in chief, Guy Carlton, was sympathetic to the ex-slaves, and he sent a fleet with 6,000 refugees, which included many ex-slaves to Nova Scotia. Washington insisted on the return of all the slaves, but Carlton said he had already sent a number of them away, and Washington said this broke the treaty, and Carlton replied that quote,

delivering up Negroes to their former masters would be dishonorable, a violation of public faith. To the British, like every once in a while a British guy does something good, but it's really rare. Well, and you gotta love how in America we're like, these are the best people who ever lived. Yeah. Our founding fathers.

No, we do act like that. George Washington who was like, bring back the slaves, fucker. We're like, they were so wise and ahead of their time with everything. Well, this guy's like, no, I'm not giving you your slaves. He's like, that's all we have, help. Especially since he said it like three times,

like please bring him back. And that would have been writing letters that were like months. Yeah, months. So I was like, please! No! Please! It's been six years.

Pretty please, I'm dead now. Who are you bartering with? So great leaders. In order to help some ex-slave children escape, some British loyalists claim them as their property to take them back to England. I can't believe how much better the British are than the Americans.

And it's like shocking. No, it's like, I mean, the British are awful. So when you realize you're worse than the British, it's really a low mark. Yeah, when you're just like, I mean, the British are awful, so. Awful. When you realize you're worse than the British, it's really a low. Yeah, when you're just like, wow, thank God for the British. Otherwise, imagine the racism without the British in this story.

Could be really bad. So the evacuation of New York in 1783 listed 12 men and boys called Caesar in the book of, so the book of ex-slaves, right? Sure. But only one was sent to England and that was a 14-year-old boy who was described as a stout fellow and he was with a man named John Watson and Watson wrote in the paperwork that he had bought him up, which is pretty vague,

and he just suggests he's probably a runaway, and he just helped him out. Is this R. Caesar? Yeah. Okay, R. Caesar. Did Mr. Caesar start wearing a deerstalker by any chance? Thank you, sir, you know where I'm going with this. What do you got?

Did he have a hat on, did he do a hat, did he say things are a foot often? Now do you get it? Did this guy like to deduce sometimes, if you know what I'm saying? But when he did deduce he was like, if only there was a man smarter than me to help. Right? Maybe. Did this guy?

Go, go. Sometimes look a little like Benedict Cumberbitch. Yeah. Right? Maybe. Did this guy. Go, go. Sometimes look a little like Benedict Cumberbitch. Yeah. Did he? Please, just give me, please just make this about Sher, Please make this about Sheryl O'Comseroll.

That's what I thought, I knew it. Aha! Oh. are all fucking. That's what I thought, I knew it, aha! Oh. In England, Caesar lived in the parish of St. Paul, Deptford, part of London's Docklands area. What area?

Yeah, Docklands. Beautiful, gorgeous this time. Look at all that. That's where hip hop was invented. That is absolutely true. Down the docks. Rowing on my boat. Hey, thank God that I float.

They're like, it's no, it's a pass. It's actually a fact, so it's not even a joke that they did invent hip-hop back there. Yeah, you didn't know that, did you? That's eight mile. Eight mile of the Thames, motherfucker. What if, what if you had one opportunity? This is everything you've ever worked for. Would you seek it?

Would you seek it? Would you grab it by the throat? Would you, would you try it? My hands are apoplectic. There's some water from my head already. My father's beef shanks. You've got to displace yourself. I wrote that movie, I wrote that song originally as well.

Father's Beef Shanks. So the Docklands had an increasing black population, most were sailors or worked on the docks. Now at the time there was a huge crime panic. Crime just keeps going up and papers are covering it in hysterical terms. The wealthy especially spoke of it just like totally hysterical, everyone agreed that criminals were born that way.

It had nothing to do with the increasing industrialization, bringing people to the city who don't have access to basic needs or increasing poverty or inequality. It's just like, that's how you're born. You come out a criminal. So funny. Has anyone seen my fallopian tubes? Anyone looking for some tubies?

Come on in. I'll take seven. Oh, I'll be right back mate. What does it do? I feel like another baby's crawling up inside me. Jeeze. Criminal crawling up inside you. Have a good one miss.

I couldn't get more tubes, I've got a womb now. Fancy a bit of that? Yeah, I'll take it. There you are. Hee hee. Oh, my day old. I am really just very concerned. About what?

Yeah. About all of it. I was born this way. Yes. Being gay is a choice. Yes. Yeah. Fucking.

Welcome to this era! Sure. Sure, welcome to this era. If I was a time traveler and I got out of a time machine there was a little baby covered in blood holding four fallopian tubes and I'd be like Welcome to this era! I'm in the right fucking place, this rocks. Give me one of them tubes, baby!

Hang out with this baby for a little while. All right. What if you have one opportunity? Yeah. One shot. This is everything you've worked for. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and the time that Eminem going back and he's like, this is fucking gold, man.

What next, baby? This looks like your mum's spaghetti. Can I take you back with me, baby? What? I bet you knew it was gonna go there. Yeah, yeah. So the best thing to do with people who are born criminals is to get rid of them. So on March 1786 Caesar was convicted in Kent of stealing four shillings and four pence.

At the time his occupation was listed as servant, although he is later described as a laborer. He's probably working unpaid, if at all. And even though 1783 records estimate he's 14 years old, three years later, court documents say he's 22. Time travel, motherfucker. 100%. So he's still a unpaid servant. He's probably just doing work to get food, you know, at that point. Marginally better, obviously. Yeah, right.

Good point. So, at this point, basically, the reason the agents are so obvious, because the people who write records are just making shit up, but no one has ID, so they're just like, hey, looks 22. So, Caesar is sentenced to seven years transportation. Seven years transportation. Yeah. What does that mean?

That means he's going to Australia. Oh hell yeah. I love that you guys just hear the name, you're like, yeah, did you hear the first part? You guys are like, fuck yeah, that's where we are. Fucking here, mate. So there's so many people being convicted and London's prisons are full,

so they start using prison ships docked in the Thames. Caesar was put on a boat for criminals of, quote, the most desperate and dangerous disposition. So there, for some reason, were a higher percentage of black men on the boat. Ah, that's interesting. That's interesting. So basically he was a black guy that got arrested.

So they put him in the danger boat. Right. Most were only convicted of theft. So dangerous means. Because they probably needed stuff to survive. Black guy. Right. So on his ship, the food rations were considered

luxurious compared to some prisons. They had bread, potatoes, pea soup, oatmeal. That's still the English menu, by the way. Yes. To be fair. That's still the English menu, by the way. Yes. To be fair. It was still... Squish peas or bread? Got my bread in my water.

I suppose. It is the holidays. Merry Christmas, mum. Merry Christmas to you. What the fuck are you doing? New row of teeth, new row of teeth, new row of teeth. Mom, can I get off the treadmill? Oh, I suppose. Here, have some mush peas.

Eat it from the toilet. Hallelujah, hallelujah. That's a Monty Python sketch word for word as well. So even though they still have a lot of really good food compared with some prisons, it was still, quote, conducive to scurvy and other illnesses compounded by the damp, confined living arrangements. Between July and December 1785, 60 men died on the Sears, probably of syphilis.

Wow, that's how you want to go though. How are they all getting syphilis? Typhus. Typhus. Typhus. Okay. You want something else to be happening. Did you say typhus?

I said fuckboat. I just keep hearing syphilis in conversations every day. Becoming bad. It's becoming bad. For weeks and weeks. I guess we'll have more lemon. He has syphilis. Syphilis. It's like a field of dreams but with syphilis. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do.

My nose drops off. Oh boy. Get syphilis and you will have syphilis. Wait a minute, Tom! You son of a bitch! Please just fuck me! Oh, God. Prime Minister William Pitt.

So Prime Minister William Pitt was under a lot of pressure to deal with the convicts on ships. They'd been sentenced to transportation, but where? Initially, it was to sail to an island in Gambia. They set them off to sail without knowing where they were put in. They're all being sent away, but they don't know where yet. It's like flying Virgin for us. Ha ha ha.

OK. So originally, they were going to sail them to an island in Gambia where they would be dumped and left with nothing. But then this suggestion was made by the head of the Africa company, a British slave operation. Yeah, listen to that guy's pitch for sure. He's like, yeah, no, dump them there. We won't bring them back on slave ships.

He said not many guards would be needed and a lot of them would die, so it'll work out. That's the good pitch? Yeah. Okay. And that was too much even for 18th century England. Fuck, I mean we're the worst, but that's not great. We're awful, you know what I mean? But wow, that's fucked up.

So James Cook had just discovered a new place, lush and green, but very far away, isolated, and there are no people there. Nobody at all. Keep going. So great, it was named. Madagascar. It was named. Madagascar. Ha ha ha ha. It was named New South Wales

because of how much it looked like Cardiff. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. I was like, crap. Can you actually imagine coming to like New South Wales and being like, this is disgusting, not like what we have back home. Yeah.

Ew. You'll have to do, it's like waterfalls and like birds singing and shit. Crikey, awful. Well, I guess that's future oil. That's the good news. Disgusting. We can create a huge manure pile there, obviously.

Not like beautiful carnivores. In 1786, Lord Nibian suggested they should transport 600 convicts to Botany Bay, quote, as well as feeding and clothing them for a year and equipping them with farming tools. Okay, this is probably our best pitch, I would guess. Yeah, this is better than just the Leib and Lafogate thing. Yeah, and then we're done.

Right. And setting up a prison on the other side of the world had never been done. This is a first. It's awesome. Yeah. On January 6th, 18... January 6th. Whoa. Woo.

Nothing happened. On January 6, 1787, Caesar was moved from the Sears to the transport ship Alexander. The Evening Post wrote a cute little poem along with a drawing of men in chains. They go to an island to take special charge, much warmer than Britain and 10 times as large. No custom. This is a fucking rap dude.

What if? What if? You've sent them somewhere where they could be in charge. Six times as big and eight times as large. Give me a beat. Um. Someone's tapping on the tabwriter. Ooh, yes.

They go to an island to take special charge. Much warmer than Britain and 10 times as large. No customs, house duty, no freightage to pay, and tax free they'll live when in Botany Bay. Love that he's pitching there's no taxes. Yeah. Yeah, but it's the rest of the stuff. No taxes, awesome, who's down?

Fuck yeah, fucking cool. How cool does that sound everybody? Backwards cap on leaning on like a chair We should listen to this guy. Is that me? Might be. Cool Hate it when this guy comes to our schools and we have to take the entire recess off to listen to him I agree. I don't like when a big adult comes to talk to our school Would you fuck off? Yeah, let's get him to fuck our fun out of here. I'm one of you.

Cool, cool, cool. Hey, let's listen to him though. He seems pretty chill. This guy's hair is receding so much. Why doesn't he just shave it? No, it fucking isn't. Okay, okay, whoa. Okay.

Look at the back, motherfucker. Pretty long, isn't it? You all right? Yes, I'm fine. I'm like 16. Chill, dude. Well, you look like you're like 45. Ha! Hilarious! Have him killed.

So Caesar was chained below decks with 205 other conv convicts and when they arrived in Portsmouth, so they did not even have England yet, many of the convicts and soldiers were already sick. Disgusting. It's like, what, like, sneezing and stuff? Put on a mask. It would be. Those actually make you sicker down here.

Yeah. Makes it harder to breathe. More like you're spreading. We don't do anything. It's 1800s. Yeah, so. 11 men died. Now, at this point, Caesar is six feet tall

and he was chosen to serve Captain James Maitland, Sherp. He was probably happy to get out of the cramped below deck situation, right? Sure. and he was chosen to serve Captain James Maitland, Sherp. He was probably happy to get out of the cramped below deck situation, right, I would imagine. So, in the heat of July, several people get very sick. They found the source, quote, the ship's bilge water, in which food waste, excrement, vomit, and stale water had fermented to such a degree. Fermented, fermented.

Where we get our beer, mate? Yeah. Hey, we call it fosters. Fuck you. Had fermented to such a degree that the noxious gases that admitted tarnished the officer's metal buttons. Oh my god. You're talking about a gross fermented sewage area

that wilts buttons? Yeah. Awesome, it's like kombucha, honestly. It's like with a scoby. Ha ha! We call it kimchi. Oh my God. Yeah, I mean it was just, like I said, it was just food waste, excrement,

vomit, and still water. Welcome to Disney cruises. That is true. When they removed the bilge hatches, quote, the stench was so powerful that it was scarcely possible to stand over them. And there's people in there? No, it was just the...

That's just the lower... That's just where it all went. Okay, still not great. They didn't have a, I mean, maybe there was a guy in there, you don't know. I'm not doing great, but I'm also enjoying the space, you know? It's a bit of a mixed bag down here.

It was a cheap ticket. Woo, I'll tell you, don't fly standby. I've been doing laps. Woo! I've actually been down here for a while. Can I stay here? I think I'm alright. Got any books? Hey, can I have some of this stuff? Not the weird way. Can I just have some for later?

What if I want to live here, eh? So five more men die on January 20th, 1788, over a year after setting out, the fleet arrived in Botany Bay. So it's a new, huge open air prison. Oh, and there were actually people already living there. Oh, so Governor Arthur Phillip recorded his first interaction with some Eorman.

So the natives, he's like, oh, there's people here that they said weren't. He said they were calling out in a quote, menacing tone, and at the same time, brandishing their spears. And then they directed him to a freshwater stream. Like, son of a bitch. Like, you, we're gonna fucking kill you!

Water's right over there, man. If you want it, yeah. You guys look really thirsty. Like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I don't need fresh water, I've got all the water I need down here. Hey, close that thing, I'm not loving the sun, you know what I mean? Doing good, yeah. So Philip gave them glass beads and mirrors as a thank you. He gave them what? Glass beads and mirrors. Glass beads and mirrors. I love that.

Mirrors is a weird one. Now they have no idea he's there to take their land and turn it into a jail, which is what they always wanted. Come on, white people, come here and turn this into a jail. The next day, more men came out yelling, warawarawara, which was later translated to go away. So they figured it out pretty quick. Maybe a better name for the country.

Wow, got very quiet. Wow, yeah, it sure did. You're in the capital. Well maybe I should just war a war a war a. Ora ora ora! Very confusing one. 80% were like,

oh god, this. Go away! Oi oi oi! Got very white in here. one 80% were like oh god this go away got very white in here shall we rap again so the English were not impressed with botany bay it was not like Captain Cook's descriptions and it looked nothing like whales. Oh boy. Maybe just pop back on your fucking boat and fuck off, hey? Yeah, not digging your vibe, not digging your vibe.

What the hell is this? Sorry, can I see some ID? Yes, of course. It's my identification for this. Sorry, mate, it says you're 17 here and you've got a fucking crow's peak like no one else. Where's your hair, cunt? I'm not sure what... Is this your dog?

Yes. I'm gonna eat your dog's face. You're not gonna eat my dog. I'm gonna fucking eat your dog's face. Jesus Christ. Yeah. They misled us. Please don't take my nuts and put it on your car.

Ooh. Maybe my keys. That could be a good one. Well, I always think of that Fosdak story about... That's like the... That's common. I've heard that from a few... Yeah, I know.

The kangaroos drown the dogs. Yeah. It's kind of a weird instinct. What a weird fucking... Yeah. It's instinctive! We weird instinct. What a weird fucking... It's instinctive, we drown dogs. What do you want from us, mate? What we do?

You guys have seen that great video though of the... Punch? Yeah, oh yeah. Hell yeah. It's like part of me is like really opposed to it because I'm like, I don't love seeing the thing get punched but then the other part is like, I mean that kangaroo was literally like, all right.

Like he like understood fight club rules and the guy was like, bam! Kangaroo was like, alright, fucking go then, run, whatever. It is Fight Club rules. In fact, they did a movie about it and you'd know that that kangaroo never existed in the first place. Dude, you had me for far too long there. I was like, wait, they made a movie about that punch? That kangaroo, that kangaroo was all in the dog's mind the entire time. The dog.

Just handing himself a bone and it drops to the ground. Whoa, dude. I was doing a lot of math. That's what dogs are dreaming when their legs are moving. That's what dogs are dreaming when their legs are moving. Gareth the dollop is brought to you by Nutriful. Dave, let's talk about it. Nutriful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand with over one million people seeing thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding.

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Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. So the English just don't see how they can farm in the shit soil. And Caesar was sent out in the first working party to clear land because he was the strongest convict. One naval officer said the locals were, quote, much pleased to see a man of their own complexion, but were puzzled he couldn't understand them. I mean, no they weren't.

Like he's with them dressed like them. They're gonna be like, I don't get it. No, these are the fucking weird clothes with the white guys. Like he's not, yeah. And there's so many different indigenous groups with like different languages. Yeah, of course.

They'd be so aware of knowing how we're those. You're suggesting that a white man wrote down some weird history. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I'll say it. I don't love it.

Yeah. Yeah. Don't love how we're being represented here. Thank you very much, I'll see you all later. I'm not cool with that. Yeah, he's like, the white guy was like, they were puzzled, he's like, they seem really freaked out by Caesar. I don't know, meanwhile there's like ships

of white dudes showing up. They're like, I don't know, something's off about their energy. Can't read it, they're like, I don't know, something's off about their energy. I can't read it, they're so complicated. So there were between 10 and 12 men of African descent on the first fleet. I love that it's like somewhere, it's 10 and 12. Right, yeah.

Along with John Caesar, John Randall, John Martin, John Williams, they all called them all black, like they would call them Black Jack or Black, yeah, whatever, very cool. Super, ages really well. It's fucking just rad. It's cool. Yes.

It's hard, it's not hard to know much about the first African settlers in Australia as convicts didn't keep diaries and the officer did quote, rarely bothered to differentiate between one despised felon and another. Dear diary, I just feel like I can't get close to the group. Thinking of just giving up and going home.

Nobody likes me. Why don't they like me? Oh that's right, because I'm a slave owner. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha about the slaves and the people who lived here before. Their attitudes are just terrible towards me. Hey, war war war. One of them keep... ... Dear diary, breakthrough. ...

Finally, something stuck. So Caesar was once again assigned to work for Lieutenant Sharp as his servant. And life in New Wales, New South Wales was completely shit. Their clothes and shoes fell apart and no thread had been provided so they couldn't mend them. So they're... That's it. Yeah, they're naked.

Well, your one pair's gone. Yeah. Whoops. Their huts they made disintegrated, quote, in torrential rain that lashed the settlement throughout the summer. Is that bad for your housing? If you don't have clothes on, it's fine.

Yeah, it's good. Life of that bilger rat shit guy seems pretty good right now, huh? Yeah, yeah. Your house disintegrates. I told you! Fucking god. It's warm in here! Whoo! Guess who's swimming pretty!

Swimming on his back, blowing it out. Whoo! He's got like a little coconut full of filthy water. Woo! You ever heard of a puna colada? Woo! Shut the fucking hatch, I don't want to see this guy. Yeah, shut the hatch, I dare you!

Oh, I'm having the time of my life. By the way, my vision's gone. Seeing something that's left me a while ago. Boom! People were still suffering from the effects of scurvy, but Caesar was very strong and healthy and stood out. Judge Advocate Collins said he was quote, always reputed the hardest working convict in the country. His frame was muscular and well calculated to hard labor.

So they knew he's the best worker. Yeah, but it's weird that, it's like a weird thing, it's a compliment. Yeah. We had to be employee of the month for that. Yeah, exactly, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. The British had assumed they would be able to eat native animals, but found that the so-called kangaroo

was extremely hard to hunt. It was like beating the shit out of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was just like, wham. I told you, mate, you can't come in. Don't look at my son. I told you mate you can't come in.

Don't look at my son. He's got his little like muscly joey in the pouch. Move! Get out of the way! Go fuck off, you heard what he said. Yeah fuck off, you heard us! Go. Go! Did you cunts bring any dogs? Oh yeah, give us your dogs.

Slurp your dog up like a new dog. I mean, if you've never seen a dog, you've never seen a dog, Or you give us your dogs. Slurp your dog up like a new dog. I mean, if you've never seen a kangaroo, like even having seen kangaroos the first time I saw one in person, I was like, Jesus Christ. Like if you've never even knew they existed, you'd be like, um, I don't know what's going on. Back to the ship!

Run away! The dog fucked a cow! Giant mouse! You know how there's those places where you can go and pat the kangaroos, and eat them a bit, and don't go off the path, though? When there was a kid, my older sister

has had blazing red hair. And it's a short little girl, eight years old, long red hair down to here, and one of the big red kangaroos came up, and everyone's like, oh my god, he likes you. And she's like, oh, and my parents are like, oh go on, feed him, feed him. And he came over, and he went to put,

and he put his arms on her shoulder, and it started to come close, and then just like this, this worker came screaming, I was like, no, no, no. I went, what's up, what's up? It was like, I was like, no, no, no! No! No! What's up, what's up? I was like, he was gonna fuck, he was gonna go, he was, that was, that was like. He was gonna, they were gonna sex.

That was kissin' time, yeah. Yeah, he was gonna make, he was gonna look at this ginger. Yeah. Holy shit. Oh my God. Cause gingers know that if they see another ginger you gotta fuck them to make more gingers cause they're going extinct.

You got it. So it's an instinctual thing. So the guy stopped it but it could've been terrible. Like it could've, your sister could've been like scarred for, like any time she's got a kangaroo. Sure, I reckon that little bit still scarred, yeah. Also especially when she knows I'm gonna be telling the story on international podcasts.

She's lucky. Yeah. So I went to one of those places and I put on a big long red wig. Sir, you need to leave, you have to stop doing that. That guy in the wig's fucking the kangaroo. Handing it snacks. Give it more trail mix. His friend keeps coming in dressed as a dog being like,

Hello. We go there, there's like a little Dave in a pouch. Like that's fucking strange. 1981. That's fucking, why is it just shouting a date? He's starting a pouch cast. Yeah, that's super weird. Yeah, that fucking socked it.

Now I know what it's like. Okay, so the kangaroo, very hard to hunt, as we said. They're quick, well camouflaged, sensitive to danger. Their muskets were almost useless against them. You mean the kangaroo's muskets? Yes. Governor Philip had declared that everyone, no matter their status, should get the same rations,

which sounds fair, but doesn't take into account that dudes like Caesar are working their fucking asses off. Right. Two months in, rations are cut and Caesar, like I said, six feet tall, super muscled, he's doing eight hours of back-breaking work every day. He's like struggling, he's starving.

Judge Collins said quote, he could in any one day devour the rations for two days. In April, the very hungry Caesar was accused of stealing four pounds of bread from Richard Partridge. Partridge said he was missing some bread from his tent and suspected Caesar, and Caesar denied it. And then Partridge found bread in Caesar's bag, and Caesar said Mr. Sharp, his boss,

gave it to him. On April 29th, Caesar was again accused of theft. Officer Scott wrote in his diary, quote, two black men, convicts, one by the name of Caesar and the other called Jemmy, were tried by the criminal court for theft. The former transported for life and the latter to receive 500 lashes. Oh, fucking A. Pretty cool. Flogging was the usual punishment, but Judge Collins increased a seven year sentence

to life instead. So now he has no chance of ever being free. So two weeks into his extended sentence, Caesar steals a musket from a Marine, along with a cooking pot and fled into the bush. Yeah, dude, you can do whatever you want now. You're like. Yeah. Yeah, right, yeah, right. Absolutely., you can do whatever you want now. You're like. Yeah.

Yeah right, yeah right. Absolutely. Yeah if they're like life, you're like okay, well I'll be out there. Ah, shit. Almost life. Ah yes. Please don't do crime.

Please. Please. Just be good. Be good. And then he comes back, the kangaroos are fucking jacked. They were those team of kangaroos. They're fucking working out with Caesar, I reckon. Oh my god.

Can you imagine how horrified you'd be as like someone walking around the bush like one of the people, the English, and you see Caesar doing like bicep curls with these kangaroos. Like, they're just curling dogs. Dogs like, get the fuck out of here. It's too late for me. There they are. So it was not hard to overpower a soldier because most of the soldiers were drunk.

So he goes into the bush. Drinking kept away the feeling that Sydney was basically hell on earth. So a lot of convicts at the time thought China was basically hell on earth. So a lot of convicts at the time thought China was 100 miles north. Swear to God, I would have, okay, I would believe that. Yeah. I can smell the noodles from here, dude.

I can swim there. It's just up there. China. No, I think walk. I think they thought they could walk up there. Me too. Walk to China. Yep, W think walk. I think they thought they could walk up there. Me too. Walk to China. Yep, W-O-K.

Scott's Diary Records. Quote. Diarrhea Records? Diarrhea. Oh, watery as fuck. Get down here, put it down here. No, no, no. Please.

Do you like Puna Colada? And getting caught in the brig. There's room for one more. In fact, there's room for many more, but you can't have any of my food. By the way, hearings left me. I'm down to two senses. I can just taste. I'm just a taste machine. I'm a taste machine.

So, this is from Officer Scott's diary records. Quote, Black Caesar the convict that was tried the 28th of April, 1889, eloped from camp, taking with him arms of ammunition belonging to Abraham Hand Marine with several other articles. So he took off again. Yeah, like we said, smart. After Caesar bolted, Judge Collins

noted that there was, quote, an increase in robberies of gardens and that someone had taken the lead weights from a fishing net to make shot for a musket. So he's out there fucking getting it done. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you'd be like, that's not great. Yeah.

We gotta start making things out of bullets. Yeah. Fuck. A week later, an abandoned musket and a pot still boiling on the fire was found, and soon he was turned in by another convict and caught. Caesar was so hungry he did not resist. So, back in Collins Court Court he pissed off the judge

by quote, expressing complete indifference to his death sentence. Yeah, well what the fuck do you expect? Yeah, I know. He's like, yeah, okay, whatever. Fuck it, okay. He said quote, if they should scrag me I would quiz them all and show them some gig

at the nubbing cheat before I was turned off. What? I mean, some gig at the nubbing cheat? Hell yeah. I've done a gig there. You're a... The nubbing cheat?

Yeah. Hell yeah. It's in your comics lunch. It's hard to get in there, that fucking kangaroo will not let you in unless you're... I know. Can I see some dog? Can I see some dog? Can I have the entire sentence again, please?

Do you, I can tell you what it means, because I have what it means, but, if they should scrag me, I would quiz them all and show them some gig at the nubbing cheat before I was turned off. So he's saying, if they try to do that to me, I will kill them before I'm dead. Hmm, close.

He would amuse the crowd by tricking the executioner before he died. Okay, tricking the executioner, that's a tough one. Fake head. What's eight times 12? Yeah. I don't remember. It's eight times 12. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember.

It's four. I'll denounce you. Wait, no! Stop quizzing me while I'm doing my death queuing. Just cut their heads off, you fucking ape. Hold on a minute, he's got a good query for me. What has one leg in the morning, two legs in the evening,

and three at night time? Wait a minute. This guy really is a fucking riddler, huh? Yeah, he's a riddler. So wait, if I put the goat and the wolf on the boat together, the wolf will definitely have at the goat. But if I send a goat on his own, I'll be with the wolf. Where the hell do I put the kangaroo though?

It's been three days. Right, yeah, fucking hell, he's gone, isn't he? Fuck. So Collins then decided hanging him would not have the proper or intended effect. What a cool guy. Yeah. So instead, he sends them to work on Garden Island.

Garden Island, which is now part of Potts Point, was the kitchen garden for the colony. The kitchen garden. So he was sentenced to basically grow food for the colony. Okay. Caesar had to work in chains, which he complained about, and asked for them to be taken off, and for asking they would whip him.

But Caesar was very charming, and a very hard worker, and he was popular with other convicts, and even some of the soldiers, and he was so well behaved that Governor Philip agreed to remove his chains. Caesar then immediately fled, a week's worth. Ha ha! Ha ha!

Ha ha! Ha ha! Ha ha! All right, I'll let them, I'll loosen them, but you promised you won't run away. I will not, I'm right here, I love the party. Why would I run away? We've got a good thing going here.

We do have a good thing going. I told you about my life, and you've told me about your life. Absolutely, yeah, you're my buddy. I'm going to, you won't bonk me on the head. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not a kangaroo. No, we've had that joke, haven't we?

We did that joke and we spent nights. I've told you I don't like that you brought your kangaroo. Yeah, he's cool. Don't look him in the eyes. He's cool. Seems like he's standing back there asking you to hurry up and come with him. Let's cool. Don't look him in the eyes. He's cool. Seems like he's standing back there asking you to hurry up and come with him. Let's go!

You taught him English! Yeah I did, I taught him English. Let's go! Just don't pull out a dog, he's cool. Hello Governor! Did you take out your Jimmy? No, my Davey. Ew.

So he immediately flees, he takes a week's of food, a gun, and a canoe. So Collins is fucking furious. The betrayal. Dead diary. You can't even take off a man's chains anymore. You think you have a friend who you've treated like an indentured servant and then wham-o. He called Caesar, quote, incorrigible, insensible, a like to punishment and kindness.

This man just doesn't like kindness. That's the problem, you just can't be nice to people anymore. You tried when I was a boy, you were kind, you were thankful, not anymore, not anymore. So this time he manages to stay hidden in the bush for six weeks. Nice. That's pretty good, right?

Solid, yeah. Yeah. I've done longer, but yeah, that's pretty good. And then one day he shows up back at the settlement and he is covered in spear wounds. Oh my God, kangaroos. Now covered in spear wounds, which means they weren't trying to kill him,

they're just trying to get him away. Yeah, okay. At his next court hearing, Caesar claimed he found a herd of cattle stolen by the Eora people and was trying to herd the cows back to the settlement to return them to the rightful owners when they spared him. I believe him.

I stole all those guns and all that food so I could get your cows back? Because I know how much you miss your cows. I'm a, by nature, I'm a cow returner. Dear diary, It's a real will they won't they? But my heart says believe him. Am I just a sucker for punishment?

I don't know. But I want to give him another shot. Even though all my gal pals say not to. Sitting on the boat with another one of like the white-haired people like just like putting a little sugar in her teeth like and then he did what? I don't know. I know you all.

You need to leave him. I know you think that but you don't know him like I do I know you came over with him because he was a slave and everything But I think you just have to find someone you look he was trying to bring cows back and a lot of cows were missing Oh my god Listen to yourself He wasn't trying to find cows He was trying to escape and live a life as a normal human being.

Well maybe I just need some time to come to that realization on my own. Maybe I just need you to listen instead of just thinking that you know everything all the time. I don't know, look, I'm not telling you how to give me advice but even though you're here, are you here? I know I might be going into another mistake, but maybe I just need to do that to know it's wrong. That's all been over the letters over like 24 months.

Back and forth from like England. His returning the cow story sounded like bullshit and Collins didn't believe him, declaring the story, quote, a fabrication to avert the lash. Jesus. You got it. They would find the missing herd years later, so it's possible Caesar did come across the cattle, but no one believes he would have tried to return them to the settlement. And like I said, all the spirit wounds just made it seem like they were trying to injure him and not kill him.

Another version of the story is that Caesar told a fellow convict he survived in the bush by scaring away indigenous people with his gun and then stealing their food so they would have really wanted him off their territory. Another version is he tried to befriend them, hoping to live with them, but they said no. But we're never going to know because he's dead. Right. Caesar was sent to Norfolk Island. Wow.

It had more food than the mainland colony, a lot of which was a large colony of petrel seabirds that nested there. Easy to catch. And between April and July, 172,000 birds were killed. So again, Caesar, a great worker, and he and another convict cleared 10 acres. The commander declared that married women

didn't have to work, so Caesar married 23-year-old Ann Poor, who was sentenced for stealing sheets. They had a daughter, Mary Ann, in March 1792, and he was given one acre of land and allowed to grow his own food. So things were looking up. Sure. Ann got pregnant again, and then they shipped Caesar

back to Sydney in March 1793. The official reason was that they were removing troublesome characters from Norfolk Island, but there is no evidence. He was difficult Yeah, they probably just don't want him to get too comfortable, right? So back in Sydney Caesar quote hauled carts for a year and then starvation came again and he bolted again He was caught again. And then he was put in front of Judge Collins after being quote ruthlessly flogged. And Caesar once again showed the judge attitude.

I'm in the nerve. Can you respect me when I'm saying you have to die? Yeah, I mean good lord. Respect. He told him quote with exultation and contempt that all that flogging wouldn't make him better. So he was like, you can keep beating me It's not gonna, I'm not gonna be what you want And then Caesar ran off to the bush again or as Collins wrote quote once more fled from honest labor to the woods

Honest labor Honest labor, yeah Maybe a little biased. Now there is a native gentleman who was a constant problem for the settlers and his name was Pamulwe. From 1790, he ran a 12-year guerrilla war against the colonizers. And after he killed a convict and gamekeeper, Governor Philip ordered six aboriginal men from his tribe to be killed and two captured for execution. And so for years, Pamulwe's groups just raided the farm,

stole livestock and food as payback for settler shit like kidnapping and so on and so forth. You don't need to even get into it. Yeah. Payback. Yeah. For what? What were they mad about? Two escaped Irish convicts started consulting Pamoa on how the settlement operated and giving tactical advice

and his raids became more successful. Oh, that's great. My ancestors has arrived, yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Why are the Irish always on the right side of history? Where are you from again? Ireland.

It is. Where are you from again? Ireland. The governor now offers a reward for Caesar's death. Wow. And one day Caesar was working at Botany Bay when the convicts and soldiers were confronted by a group of warriors led by Pamulio. As the warriors charged at the colonizers Caesar went for Pamulwai and he tries to stab Caesar with his spear but Caesar dodged and either shot Pamulwai or slammed his head into a rock and then with their leader injured the warriors all retreat. So now reports around the colony are that Caesar has killed Pamulwai and now he's a hero. Caesar is?

Yes. To the colonizers? Yes. Yeah, right, they're like, well done! And now Collins almost likes him. What this mother, I mean for fuck's sake. He's trying, it's too little, too late. I don't know, I mean he's throwing the kitchen sink at me,

but I still don't know, I've been hurt before. Emotionally, obviously. Physically, I'm in the prime of my life. Right, lovely, look at me. I'm translucent, transparent. I'm 31, body of a scallop, look at me. So, Caesar has gained a group of followers. He's charming, he's big, he's a hero now,

so he's like a leader. And in 1795, he and all of his crew escaped together. And a year later, a very alive Pamela Way led a group of warriors into battle, streets of Paramata, so he wasn't dead. He wasn't dead. But like they weren't in cahoots or anything. No, no.

They really thought. It wasn't the fucking prestige. Oh my God. Okay. Christopher Nolan's Pimouay. I'll pretend to be dead and then. That would be the best though. You'll be a hero.

We're gonna, from both sides, we're gonna fuck with these guys. Well, you're not gonna believe what happened now. Don't tell me. He was already pretending to be dead. I know you're gonna fuck with these guys. Well, ugh, you're not gonna believe what happened now. Don't tell me. He was already pretending to be dead. I know you're gonna be furious, but yeah. Look, fool me 15 times, I'm a fucking idiot, okay?

So his new group was called the Black Caesar Gang. And Collins wrote Caesar was the leader of, quote, several other vagabonds This time Caesar focused more on armed robbery the kind of thing that is now associated with bushrangers He would stick up soldiers steal their ammunition which enabled them to stick up the next group of soldiers So he's like a pioneer bushranger The new governor was John Hunter so John Hunter hates that Caesar was making him look foolish and

he offered Caesar a very conditional pardon if he gave himself up in late 1795 and Caesar responded that quote he would neither come in or suffer himself to be taken alive. A furious hunter now published a notice quote whoever shall secure this man Caesar and bring him in with his arms shall receive, as a reward, five gallons of spirits. It's just, I mean, well look, it's all fucking crazy, obviously,

but five gallons of spirits as a reward is also wild. Very typical, but yes. So days pass, no reports. Peaceful gossiped and speculated about where he might be and whether he'd be caught. Collins quote, scarcely a morning arrived without a complaint being made to the magistrates of a loss of property supposed to have been occasioned

by this man. Every theft that was committed was ascribed to him. So he's a legend. Former highwayman John Wimbo was caught and sentenced to transportation to Australia. And Wimbo loved booze. So he was on the hunt for Caesar. And he got a tip where Caesar's hideout was,

which was in a rock shelter. And Wimbo and a friend hid outside waiting for Caesar to come back. And when he did, they still kept hidden to make sure his gang wasn't close by. And let's wait and hide when he leaves as well. Yes, the move here is to make sure it's him for a while. He's leaving, 100% him, and he's alone.

He'll be back. He'll be back soon, I assume. What, um. Oh, he'll be back. Yeah, he'll be back soon. What, um... Oh, favorite desserts. Yes. Right. Caramel. Mmm.

Yeah, gets caught in my few teeth. I was going to say caramel as well, but now you've said it, I feel like a bit of an arse if I were to say it. No, no, no, we can just, shh, shh. What about tiramisu, bitch? Oh, fuck. Fuck this guy.

I hate that guy. I hate that guy. I is he in the echo? He part of the camera. It comes when we do our stakeouts for season. Yeah, honestly. Cool. Okay, there he is, he's coming back. He's alone again.

You guys like ice cream and champagne? Shut the fuck up. No, we like ice cream and champagne. Quiet, quiet, stop. Quiet, please. Fully aware of how much I like ice cream and champagne. Quiet, stop. Quiet. Fully aware of how much I like ice cream and champagne. Okay, sorry. Keep your fucking voice down. I got a deep voice bro. Then just whisper with it. Well they call me loud Joe, because I fucking come in hard. We've all seen your tattoo Joe. What about Flan? Pardon me? Flan is, no, can we just, we've got to watch. Flan?

Flan, yes. Oh, I've been stabbed by Caesar, okay. Jesus Christ. I also have been stabbed by Caesar. You know, that's my bad. I've also, I've also. Look, we're dying and the last thing I want to do is hear about Flan as I die. Actually it's the way I wanted to go out.

Tell me about flan. Have you heard of creme brulee? Nope, sorry, I'm gone. It's like a shit creme brulee. I've died, so fuck off. I'm five gallons of spirits in a way as well now. So, in the morning, Caesar comes out and quickly senses that someone is there, quote, he...

Flawn! Flawn! Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha! Could just be a kookaburra. I love Flawn! Quote, he blindly swung his musket around to where Wimbo stood too late.

One close shot brought him down. A case of self defense, Wimbo would later insist, with a witness to back him up. Caesar died hours later. I mean, he's eventually gonna die, you guys. Come on. Judge Collins was the first to hear. Someone ran into court, interrupting a burglary trial

to tell him Wimbo claimed he'd shot in self defense and Governor Hunter said Black Caesar, quote, attempted to shoot the man who spoke to him, but there being two of them together, the other in self defense fired and shot him. So his corroborator was the guy he went out there with. To kill him. Right.

Shocking. If they're going out to get him and they've done all this, whose corroborator was the guy he went out there with? To kill him. Right, shocking. If they're going out to get him, and they've done all this, they're in power, why are they having a trial, just be like, oh yes, we'll make sure that it's all done by the book anyway? Yeah, it's fucking crazy. Yeah.

Historian Cassandra Pibis speculates that having been a hymen in England, Wimbo might have actually been in Caesar's gang, and that's why he knew where to find him. He was a snitch. He always talked about rocks. Yeah. He always said he wanted to live in a big rock

if he ever ran away. Caesar's wife, Anne, found out about his death weeks before she died of unknown causes. Their children were foreign too, and they were adopted by a friend of Anne's. Judge Collins was pleased that he saved the colony from this quote, incorrigibly stubborn black. One guy booed, which is helpful, thank you sir.

We've really, well, regrets, I've had a few. (*audience laughs*) Collins went back to England six months later, satisfied with his work. Governor Hunter was smug, saying the death of this notorious offender would no doubt snuff out any future convict resistance. Sure, for sure, for sure, for sure. But Sisa was the first of many and inspired a new wave of Bush rangers who still influence Australian culture today.

Not many Australians know the first Bush ranger was a black man. When asked why more Australians don't know about the African early senators, historian Cassandra Pibis said, quote, because Australia's a racist society and there was a concerted effort to wipe out non-Europeans from Australia's history.

This is written by Charlotte George, main source. Cassandra Piper's Black Founders, the unknown story of Australia's first black settlers. Ben Pujomi, Mad Dogs and Thunderbolts, the call of captivating histories of Australia's other Bush rangers, first fleet.uow.edu, of Australia's other Bushrangers. Firstfleet.uow.edu, Robert Hughes, The Fatal Shore, and sbs.com.

The article, did you know where there were 12 Africans on the first fleet? No. No? 10 to 12. There were more. There were more. There were more.

There were more. There were more. There were more. There were more. There were more. There were more. There were more. There were more. Or... I don't know. You son of a bitch. Yeah, I don't know, it's like the same thing, but it is just like, the level at which we continue to just kind of be like, look, they were awesome. Like, in America, you cannot question the,

like it's crazy to question the founding fathers. Yeah. That's like considered anti-American, anti-patriotic. in America you cannot question the, like it's crazy to question the founding fathers. That's like considered anti-American, anti-patriotic. When you have such a dark, horrible history, the choice instead of like dealing with it is to have no relationship with it. And it's one that's going real good. Yeah, it's going good I think.

For everybody. It's going good. I think. For everybody. It's going good. I love this podcast. Thank you, man. I don't. Okay, cool. I was going to say something else,

but I feel like the dynamic has shifted a little bit. I love it when it's funny, and I love having a good time, and I also love when I learn something, and I feel genuinely like to go and be like, hey, the first Bush Ranger that was like fucking shit up was a black dude from America. That's a cool story.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just proves again Americans do it best everywhere we go. Yeah. And I also really liked how it was factual there was a guy that loved eating and drinking shit on the ship.

Yep. I'm still alive. I always get that in. I mean, if there's a guy drinking shit on a ship, I'm gonna put him in the store. But wait, there wasn't really a guy. No. Oh, yeah.

For a minute I was like, I feel like we came up with the guy. No, no. The guy's like, woo, baby, BrisVegas. Yeah, are you with me? Fortitude Valley.

Fortitude Valley of shit! Yeah, that guy actually settled Brisbane. Yeah, I don't know. And then there's no, they have no relationship to this man at all here. Nobody gives a shit. I think some people have heard of him, but probably not to know the details. Looking at a lot of faces that look like mine through most of these podcasts, to be quite honest.

I recognize I don't know face more than most people, Dave. Had anybody heard of him? Yeah. Yeah, some people. Three guys. Three guys. Three white guys, see? Not so bad now, are we?

Yeah! Well, look, we've solved it. Yep. And at what point, like, in between the story you told, did he defeat Moriarty and... And kind of like do the mystery of the hounds of Baskerville, I think. Just say something. What's happening?

And at what point did he um... Say a year really soon. It's not good. Say a year. Take a bunch of coke and heroin I think. Did he do that? Say a year. I don't know what's going on.

Just say a fucking year to him. He's our guest. Be nice. Haha yeah cool man. I think Dave likes me finally. He's a big fan. He's a big fan. He's cool. No, he loves you.

Are we ready to start the show? 3, 2, 1, go Dave. Well, shit. That's it, right? Yeah, that's the end of the show. Ladies and gentlemen, shit. Um, that's it, right? Yeah, that's the end of the show. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming. Give it up for Top Cardi, our guest, everybody.

How fucking great is Tom? And one more time for Drake Anthony. Drake the, Drake. Drake? Dragon Dave Anthony. My name's Top Cardi, Thanks for listening to The Past Times. Thank you everybody. And we're brought to you by Airbnb Canada. Listen, I'm on the road a tremendous amount all the time.

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