The Extras - Batman '66: Remembering Adam West

Episode Date: September 15, 2021

We remember Adam West, the original Batman, as we near his birthday on September 19th.Part one of a multi-part series with filmmaker and DC expert Alex Gray and former Warner Bros Vice President of Special Features Bonnie Spence as they remember working with Adam West on the “Batman: The Complete Television Series” box set.  We start with the backstory of why it took so long for the TV series to finally be released on home video.  Then we discuss the creative process of developing the concepts for the special features, including working with both Adam West and his agent Fred Westbrook.  And then we revisit the highly personal documentary “Hanging With Batman,” where Adam West finally had the chance to tell fans in his own words the complicated and fascinating tale of his life as Batman.The Sitcom StudyWelcome to the Sitcom Study, where we contemplate the TV shows we grew up with and...Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify The Extras Facebook pageThe Extras Twitter Warner Archive & Warner Bros Catalog GroupOtaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals. www.otakumedia.tv

Hi, I'm film historian and author John Fricke. I've written books about Judy Garland and the Wizard of Oz movie, and you're listening to The Extras. Hello and welcome to The Extras, where we take you behind the scenes of your favorite TV shows, movies, and animation, and their release on digital, DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K, or your favorite streaming site. I'm Tim Millard, your host, and I have with me today two huge Batman fans to celebrate Adam West's birthday on September 19th

by reviewing the Batman The Complete Television Series box set. For those of you who listened to our episodes on the legendary Frank Miller and his iconic graphic novel Batman The Dark Knight Returns, you will remember filmmaker Alex Gray. He has produced well over 200 documentaries, many of them for Batman-related titles like Gotham, Batman The Animated Series, and numerous DC animated Batman movies. Joining him today is Emmy Award-winning producer Bonnie Spence. She is the recipient of the Women in Film Founders Award for Exceptional Service and was the chairperson for their PSA program for a decade.

She is the former vice president of special features for Warner Brothers Home Entertainment, where she led the TV, family and animation group. In that position, she oversaw the special features extras for all of the DC animated movies, as well as all of the DC television shows, including Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, Batwoman, Gotham, and many more. A few of the home entertainment box sets that she produced extras for are the 40th anniversary release of Woodstock, Man from U.N.C.L.E., West Wing, Friends, the Complete Series Blu-ray, Batman, the Animated Series, and the topic of our discussion today, Batman the Complete Television Series, also known as Batman 66. She was my boss for nearly 14 years and was a terrific mentor to me in my career. Bonnie Spence, it's good to see you. Welcome

to The Extras. You too. Happy to be here. And Alex Gray, welcome back. Hey, Tim. Thanks for having me, buddy. You bet. I was thinking this is actually the first time the three of us have sat down together since before the COVID-19 pandemic. True. True. Absolutely. A little crazy, huh?

It's really great to see you guys and hang out again. Wow. When I first decided to launch this podcast, I know I talked to both of you beforehand to get your feedback and everything. And one of the thoughts I had was this Batman Complete Television series, Blu-ray release, also known as Batman 66. This was one of the episodes that I knew would be a lot of fun if we could ever sit down and talk about. So I'm really excited about doing this today. I remember originally when the piece came out, I loved watching the extras, but I never did get the full story, you know, behind all the pieces. I know, Bonnie, you tell me like how great it was working with Adam and everything. But as we come up to what would have been his 93rd birthday on September 19th, this felt like it'd be appropriate to record this episode now. But before we dive into that

part of the discussion, I do want to go back a little bit. Bonnie, how did you first become a Batman fan? Oh my gosh. Totally by my uncle. My uncle was crazy about Batman. He was originally crazy about Superman and he had a red car that works, that's how he flew. Right. And then he started, um, comic books, uh, reading more Batman. And he introduced me to it and he introduced me to comic books. That's actually how I learned how to do typography. Oh, really? Yeah. A lot of good graphics, et cetera. And I could do it almost anything at that point. Even as a kid, it was great. And then, um, was this back in Detroit? Yeah, this was back in Detroit, eight years old. And yeah, it was great.

Really, really fun stuff. And I loved reading the comics back then too. I didn't buy any, but we enjoyed them together when he came over to the house. I also saw Batman, the Mass of the Phantasm when it came out and it blew my mind. I was so in love with that movie. I think I went, took everybody that would go with me. Most guys were fine with it, you know? So that was, that was pretty cool. I couldn't believe it. And so I was completely immersed into it after that. Yeah. As long as I've known you, you've been a huge Batman fan of that franchise. What were your memories of the original Batman 66 show?

Oh, it was a blast. I sat there with my uncle and my dad and we watched it and, you know, I took everything seriously. I really didn't know the difference. Right. And I loved all the colors and all the wham, bam, pows and everything else. I could, like, I think every other kid did. Right. And my cousins and I, we used to laugh about how everything was labeled. And I would say to my dad, these guys are detectives, right? Well, why is everything labeled? And we just, we were just like, no, no, that's just the show. That's just a show. So you just sort of go along with it. Right. It was a blast. Everything about that show we loved. We loved the villains. I really loved Eartha Kitt. And growing up, you know, you're younger, you're in Detroit, you're exposed to a lot of that type of music and the look and the culture, the pop culture of cars, especially. Oh my gosh. That Batmobile was the talk. Right. Constantly. That was the bomb, right? Right.

So that was my exposure to it how about you alex what do you what do you remember about the original series well tim before i actually get into that i do have to say real quick here bonnie something to you um now i finally know where you get your fonts from by the way so for those of you who do not know bonnie out there uh bonnie is the queen of fonts and layouts. So when you're producing something, you better have the best font available, best font package. And she will tell you exactly what type of font that is and what the kerning is and needs to be, you know, the the the letting all kinds of interesting terms. I have truly, though, I have learned a considerable sum by listening and paying attention to those those those lessons you've imparted on fonts and layout.

And it actually has made a difference. And I will tell you this, knowing that it comes from the comic book side, it is truly a lost art. I mean, you talk to people that do lettering on that level, which I believe you may be one of them, Bonnie. Secretly, you're lettering some comic books. Yeah, it does make a huge difference. It really does. Okay, sorry, Tim. I had to go there for a second. Tim and I have talked about this a few times, too. I saw Tim light up, I figured.

Well, we're not really going to go into all of the projects we worked on together because that would take forever. Right. But that's a hilarious little side point. But back to the topic at hand. What do you remember about the original Batman series? Well, this series had an awesome way to just get into my soul. And what it was is that Saturday mornings, let me set this up for you. Saturday mornings, I'd sit there and watch my cartoons. Now, mind you, it was a matter of who got to that remote control first. And I have a couple of sisters. So we would actually compete with whoever actually got up earliest. You had to dash right over there to that television if you wanted to set the narrative of that day. day. And luckily, you know, being first born, I was allowed, you know, maybe a little, little elbow room there. And I was able to get in. They did beat me out a couple of times, I will say, but if I was fortunate enough to actually be the one that set the day's agenda, I definitely

watched my cartoons. But come midday, I knew that I'd walk away from my little break there. I'd walk away from my little break, and I ultimately would hear this tune come through. And of course, that was Neil Hefti's awesome music of Batman that is all so indelible to each of us. Really, like I said, it penetrates your heart, penetrates your soul, and it sticks with you, and you go running to the television. You want to know what in the world is this? Oh my God, this is awesome. And let me tell you, these producers, they were smart when they actually came up with the series because did they make this

intro a live action intro? No, they made it animated, animated. Of course, it's going to appeal to kids like me. And I'm looking at this going, this is going to be great. Well, I was glued. And that's how I basically jumped in at that point into the Batman 66 world. And like all of us, you get hit, like Bonnie was saying, with an inundation of all kinds of imagery, moments, dialogue. Was it making a sense to the 10-year-old version of me at the time? Of course not. I took it seriously. And I was blown away, of course, by what it meant. And again, when hearing that music, I couldn't wait for my next moment to be able to hear that music. And of course, that being the 1980s at the time when I was experiencing it, it was event-driven. You had to wait for the next episode or until the next weekend. Yeah. I'm with you guys.

I took it seriously. And we on the playground, I mean, we're going, wow, we're going, bam, you know, we're doing it the way they did it in the show, you know, with the seriousness. I mean, we know now that there's so much kind of a humor to it, but I think that's a little bit more for the adults who are watching and for the kids, you know, you just absorb it. He's like, wow, I can do this. Exactly. It was so much fun. Totally. No. And I don't recall if I watched that first or if I read the comics for it. It really is a

blur for me. But anyway, it's so much fun. Bonnie, I did want to ask you as an executive at Warner Brothers at the time, if you could give us a little background on the genesis of the whole Batman Blu-ray release. Do you recall when you first heard it might happen? And when did you start talking with marketing about this? Stay with us. We'll be right back. Hi, this is Tim Millard, host of The Extras Podcast. And I wanted to let you know that we have a new private Facebook group for fans of the Warner Archive and Warner Brothers Catalog physical media releases. So if that interests you, you can find the link on our Facebook page or look for the link in the podcast show notes. To be perfectly honest, when I interviewed at Warner Brothers, I was talking to my boss, Paul, and I had said to him, if I'm working on TV, how soon do we work on Batman?

Wow. Batman 66. He looked at me and he just laughed. He goes, well, I think you're going to have to be here a while for that to happen. But he said, I think you got the job. So that was great. And that's what started a wonderful relationship over at Warner Brothers, starting the TV group and then the animated group. And from that day on, we definitely had a blast on everything that we did. And I was very blessed there too, because when we knew that we were going to start the DC series and the animated movies and all the TV,

I literally went into Paul and said, Hey, can I take on this as part of my job? And he said, yes. And so I ran to my office, closed the door and called my dad and said, Oh my God, I just won the lottery. I just don't know when Batman 66 is coming along, but I'm guaranteed we're going to do it at some point. Wow. So it was a great start. Fast forward, Rosemary Markson, our senior VP of marketing, would tease me constantly. We think there's going to be a big project this year. She would joke.

I mean, it took forever, literally forever for this to come out. And I know that Jay Ken, he was our SVP of legal. Oh, my gosh. He worked on this for so many years that finally we got an email one day and I pulled up the email because I want to read this. It was great. December 20th, 2013. He sent out an email saying, after many years of effort, Warner and Fox have reached an agreement for distribution of the 66 TV series Batman, starring Adam West and Burt Ward in a media beyond original free television worldwide in perpetuity. I immediately wrote him and said, best Christmas gift ever.

Oh, wow. And within three seconds, I mean, emails are just flying in and flying in yeah just just for the fans just to give them a little background i mean this was a huge deal the series hadn't been released up to that point due to the uh the complex ownership rights between i think it was executive producer william dozer's Greenway Productions, and then Fox and ABC and DC Com. I mean, it was just a huge tangled web of, of rights. This is 2013. DVD had been out for, oh, you know, since the late nineties. And I'm sure there was an appetite for this right from the very beginning. So, uh, yeah, that was a big, big deal. Then what happened? They also knew, tagging onto what you're saying, that everyone's

getting older and that, you know, we really need to capture everyone before everyone goes over to the next world that they're going to be in, right? Or the next bat phone, what they're going to take on. But they finally resolved it, which was great. So then we got together with marketing. I really have to thank Rosemary Markson, Tina DePasloan, and Anthony Evangelista, and Lance Murakami, who really made up the show. We really worked hard as the team to get this off the ground. And I know I bounced a lot of stuff off of you, Tim, and a lot of the ideas. And actually, we worked on the Na Na Na Na Na Batman one, too. That's right.

You really helped me out with that. It was just so much fun. We'll get into that a little bit later. But, oh, my gosh, how much fun was that? Yeah. And then we just looked at this and we looked at the marketing schedule and a timeline and we were like, holy 2014 workload, right? Right.

All those Batman holies were coming out at that time because it was, um, it was a lot of work and short amount of time. We did get a little bit of a heads up and, uh, we made it happen. in a short amount of time. We did get a little bit of a heads up and we made it happen. And the announce came from Conan on January 16th of 2014. And we were off and running right after that. When did Alex, you first kind of start to get involved soon after that or right around that? It was around then when we started to really get the conversation rolling, but there was a, there's a bit of a dialogue up front, of course, because being fans of this material, working very close at that time, you know, with, with the group when I was on the Warner Brothers side as well and discussing like,

what's the future possibilities of here? Same with me as well, Bonnie, is that we all had hoped at some point to actually get a way to compile the Batman 66 episodes. Because as Tim, you brought up too, all that was available to us as fans was bootleg renditions of them, dirty copies that had been, you know, printed a thousand times over. It was a bit of a mess and you pick them up here and there randomly, these VHS versions of them. And, you know, for those of you who don't know what VHS is, I mean, the quality was bad. We had all hoped that this could be a possibility at some point to be able to do this. And really we were feeling the same way, which was when can this thing, you know, happen and now cut to so many years later and working on, on the vendor side

and looking at it from that perspective. There was a couple of dialogues moments that you and I had Bonnie that we would talk about the fact that like hey uh if we don't get this uh made soon we may lose our two stars we may lose adam west burt ward and as you said they may be taken off to another place kind of a thing and we don't want that to happen we need to make sure we at least get them we had already lost unfortunately frank gorshin who played the riddler so deftly amazing performance performance. Wanted to do this series for a while. Some sort of documentary that was very official, that kind of thing, too. This was happening. This was a very real reality for us. So we had started this dialogue early on and we were writing concepts continually because being a fan and just a person that enjoys Batman, the world of Batman and other comic books as well.

As I sit there and I just sometimes write stuff or I have writing partners that we work with as well. And we'll just start, you know, hashing out some ideas. And it's good because it gives you that development and that gestation period that you need. So by the time when the dialogue really started happening, we were at a good juncture where it's like, OK, we're feeling pretty good about these. Now let's start getting let's start getting serious. Right. One of those things. We had like 50 ideas too.

We had to constantly hone them down and hone them down according to the budget or what we were going to do. And also put some out for social and put some aside that we thought that would be fun. You know, like doing the tattoo scene, a couple of other things that PR really wanted to pick up on as well. You're not kidding. I remember that. Thanks for reminding me about that. We did. We had a thick tome of ideas. I'm not kidding you. We were developing this stuff for a while. It wasn't like we just all of a sudden, you know, out of the blue said, okay, we're fans. Let's just build something here. No, it takes time and you really want to give it its due diligence. It deserves it. The series is so precious to all of us and to those who have not experienced it and getting to experience it a first time, you want them to

have that precious experience and know that this thing is special to all of us. And so I remember that point with so many of them and then to really call them down to what we wanted or could produce. That was the tough part, wasn't it? It was very tough. Yeah. Very tough. But then we really had at the concept stage, we really had to pass everything through Fred, Fred and Adam. And that really helped us hone it down because they had a very, very specific thing in mind. Fred was very savvy about what should be done, what shouldn't be done. We don't want to be too silly. We wanted to stay away from the campy stuff because that's what the show was about too. And that's really not totally what Adam was about. I mean, he was an actor. He wasn't a camping man. He was a very intelligent man or else he couldn't have played that role the way he did. Before we get too deep

into Fred and Adam and your discussions with them, I did want to take the opportunity just to talk a little bit about a release like this, that marketing, you know, is going to be very excited about because they know the fan appetite is there. Tell me why the extras become so important for marketing to be able to do their job of making this release, not just the episodes, Hey fans, here it is, but to meet that appetite. Where are the extras in that process and why are they so important? By the time we got the green light, the J. Ken message that, hey, we can now progress forward with all parties involved and what have you. I think we were at the near 50

year mark and really the extras serve this wonderful guide, which I think that's ultimately what people needed to get that refresher. If you are a fan or if you're a neophyte first entering into the Batman realm, the Batman 66 realm, in this case, we want to show you what that world was like. We want to show you why it was important. And also an opportunity to do that effort of the due diligence of telling Adam's story. I think he was very deservant of that at that point. He really didn't have that level of treatment that he should have early on. And his story is very unique and intriguing, especially when you follow the deeper aspects of his career and him starting as a leading man type and then becoming more of this driver of comedy on a lot of levels. So I believe ultimately that was part of the filter that Bonnie

and I used to hone down which concepts would work. Of course, like she was saying is that we did have to have them vetted by the powers that be, but it was about what is our own self filter here? What is our own self preservation as well? Because that's going to be very important too, because who knows if they're going to make another version of this. And even if they do, what are they going to make the hundred year version? Well, we'll be gone by then. And so will the last vestiges and remnants of the show most assuredly. So what do you do? How do you choose? I mean, there's a lot of pressure in that capacity, but this is really what was our standard and how we were able to look at it like that. What are we imparting to the audience? I thought that was

important. You know, part of the reason for the podcast is to help the fans understand the importance of extras in the place of filmmaking, television shows, entertainment. People think, oh, well, you know, we'll just throw in some deleted scenes or we'll just throw in a little bit of this or that. In a case like this, you know, you look through the vaults and you guys did the Batman rarities. There are those assets. But that was in the 60s. We're now in 2014.

That's the year I think that this was released. We need to put context to what you're saying, Alex, we need to look back at history. And then of course we need to hear from the stars, the creators after all of these years. But I looked at the discs one, two, and three, there is no extras. It's only the bonus disc, right? So there had never been anything done.

Now we do know that there were other projects that other people did, documentaries and things of that nature that were kind of just with Adam West by himself or whatever. But they couldn't use footage. They couldn't use footage other than the one TV movie. They couldn't use footage from that TV show. So here is this amazing opportunity. But marketing understands, hey, we need to hear.

And so you bring in the extras team. You know, we bring in you, Bonnie, you, Alex, and you start creating these ideas. So now with that background, knowing, you know, kind of that is why these extras become so important. Let's, let's pick up with Fred and, and Adam, when did you guys reach out to them in the process? And what was that like? A lot of that was happening behind the scenes, you know, before we even got involved. And we knew that because it's, it's all part of everything else that has to happen, right? They have to agree to it. And with Fox, they had to agree to everything too. And that's why we were able to use all the footage.

And so once we, once we were involved, Fred wanted to know who the team was, vetted the team. He wanted to make sure that he had the top notch person for Adam in every way possible. And I believe he did. I, I think he did a great job with that. And with us working with Alex, who was definitely a Batman fan and can talk about it too, it worked out really, really well. Everybody on our team had seen Batman 66.

We could all refer to it. We all knew the importance of it. We also loved it. That was a major thing. You could not watch the show and not love it. And marketing felt the same way. There was something just so special about it, you know, because it was so campy, but we didn't know it was campy as kids, but we recognize what it is as an adult. And we wanted to share those special moments. It's like sharing that special Christmas memory, right? And

this was that show for so many of us. Fred knew that, knew it inside and out and wanted to make sure that everybody involved appreciated it and appreciated Adam in a different way because everybody who came forward, they had Adam as their idol. He was their idol. He was the first Batman. He made those comic books come to life. And that's the importance of this. It was really, really fun to do. So knowing that, it was very, very difficult when we get all in a room with a whole division because everyone's like, well, can we do this? Can we do that? Can we do this?

Can we do that? Right? The great thing about it is that both studios were up for anything. So that was very cool. We had access to, like you said, their vault. You remember going over to the vault. Yeah. We had access to all the material too, from the complete set. So it made our lives a lot easier to make

these pieces really involved and really, really deep. So let's talk about the actual, you know, you said you had this tome of ideas that you had been accumulating for years. And then of course, other people brought in their ideas. Talk a little bit about honing that down to the final pitch or, or maybe you pitched a bunch and they came back with their favorites. How did that work, Alex? I remember us, Bonnie and I working out a lot of that upfront and saying, okay, well, which ones are really going to fit the building on what Bonnie was referring to, which is the camp side to this. Yes. We know that a lot of the early articles written about the show did contain that level of language because that's how they used to describe the show. But really the show wanted, and I believe the actors

wanted to depart from that and look at it as in terms of its pop art, because it became pop art. It became so deeply connected to it and it always really was. What it was, it was, it went dormant, I think for a lot of folks that were out out there and or they did not really realize because simply pop culture was not at the elevated point where it became by 2014 when we had ventured into this. So looking at that, we took into consideration, well, what would be the most relevant from a pop art perspective? And then also, of course, we definitely wanted to do a Adam West biography piece. That's where, as I've mentioned in the past to you on the show, is that sinking into and really getting deep in terms of a person's biography and starting to think like the way

that they do. That's when we know we're doing our job successfully. Because if I can create something where I can understand the way that Adam is thinking about something, at least circa when he was in the show. And I, then I feel like I've done my job correctly. I've done my job well, because I want to be able to tell those level of pieces. So we knew up front between the two of us that we should pursue that one, which of course became hanging with Batman. And then the other ones really were about what are the other aspects to the series, again, fitting that pop culture, pop art filter, and then drawing from that. So it's a very large

net, but on a lot of levels, what happens is, is that we start to refine it every step of the way as we're creating the idea and then breaking down that idea into this very unabridged form. You've probably talked about this in the past in your show where these proposals, they're more truncated. We want to be able to show them to the marketing team, to the others, so that they can understand the idea at a glance and create a dialogue amongst themselves in the room. Later on, we start to create what is called an unabridged version of our proposal, really more of like an act structure to the whole thing. And that's where we're getting those gems. That's where we're getting the beauty of each of these pieces.

And that made it a little bit easier for both of us to make those decisions about what to present to Fred, Fred Westbrook, Adam West's agent. And that is what ultimately helped. But to answer the complete side of your question is, what did they do? Well, we presented it, of course, to Fred. And then Fred has had his own ideas as well, along with Adam too. And it was great because they fit so beautifully into the context of what we were intending. And so we were all like these cartographers on a lot of levels making this map. And then we don't know exactly what that map is going to precisely look like. But if we're all

coming in, drawing our various moments into there, suddenly it came into focus. And that's when we knew, OK, we're going to pursue this idea, this idea, that idea. It was collaborative on every level. And I speak on that very proudly because the experience was awesome. And that's how filmmaking should always be. Right. Right. Right. And it was really interesting too, is we presented some ideas and Fred's like, I'm not so sure Adam's going to want to do that. And we, to our credit, we were telling him, you know what, this has never been presented before. Everybody wants to know how Adam felt about this and what he wanted to do next and where he would go with his career. So to our credit again, I think that we picked a nice variety. We knew we wanted to do something that was about the culture, the times that showed the pop art, like Alex was saying, the legend scene stuff. And because that was very much a part of the show, right? And we wanted to

bring in other people nowadays that saw the show when they were kids and how they reflect on it now with Adam and hanging out with him was a really, really fun piece for that very reason. The bat, you know, the bats of the round table, because everybody knew of him, always wanted to be him. Everybody wanted to be Batman, right? So it was a fun piece as well. Everything shouldn't be so heavy or, but it should be, you know, more like lighthearted. Cause that's what Adam was about too, about humor. So how long did that whole process then take? Let's see, December, you find out Conan announces it in January. You guys are, you know, meanwhile, crafting your proposals and talking to Fred. And I mean, this is all going on. When did you kind

of get that? Okay. We're locked in. We're ready to go. And then when did you have to deliver Alex? It happened to happen like brutally fast. I mean, we, we had to have our ideas locked in by the end of January. I mean, that's two weeks. Wow. Because we were on such a timeline that he had to be shooting by February and we had to deliver by August. Oh, my. So it was tight. It was very, very tight. But you know what?

We all enjoyed it. And everybody pitched in. And you even pitched in with us, too, on things that I needed help with. So it was great. Yeah. I mean, there was no doubt that I needed help with. So it was great. Yeah. I mean, there was no doubt that everybody wanted to be involved as much as we could to help out. But that is a tight folks.

For those who don't understand, that is an extremely tight timeline, not impossible. And you did it, of course, and we've done it on other titles, but it's more comfortable if you have like a year to do something like this. We rarely get that, of course, but six months, eight months, that's, that's a pretty quick turnaround with all the, the people who needed to put their eyeballs on the pieces, the proposals, and then the final pieces and everything. And also Adam was working with Family Guy too. So we had some restrictions on when we could get him and we had Comic-Con and there was a lot of other aspects that he had to be at, you know, and so we worked around that

as well. You just mentioned Comic-Con. Was that part of the reason that the deadline was July, August was they wanted to premiere at Comic-Con, have the panel and then it was released right after. Absolutely. I like the fact that you're saying that it took, you usually in your mind, you hope for that year. You know, I often tell people when they say, and they've asked me casually about the experience and working on this project, I said like, yeah, I spent about two years with Adam West working on this thing. You know why I do that? It's because in my mind, it feels like it was two years. The reality is obviously it wasn't a two year. I then say, I follow up and tell them, well, no, it's actually, it was only about six to seven months worth of us just diving in 24 seven, had it going round the clock with our crew.

I mean, the, our, our, our office had not been busier. It was an incredible period of time working and ramping up with everybody. It was truly an all hands on deck experience, but everybody truly felt like they were participating in something, working towards something that was meaningful and that was a lasting bit of history. I think that's so important because, you know, you can make these projects and you kind of know that it's useful for this particular moment. It's a blip on a radar, you know, a particular documentary that's, let's say it's attached to something that isn't the most popular project or what have you. But this one was, this is one of those pieces. I'm sorry. This is one of those series that you know, that you've got to get everything as right as you

possibly can. And being in that, in that level of that timeline. Yeah. Let me tell you, man, it was pretty, pretty, pretty terrifying upfront. When you look at the schedule and you go like, wait, how, how many minutes are we going to go for? How much time do we have? And we just knowing the way that we are and we like to over deliver, we like to have these lengthy pieces because I want to get into as a filmmaker, all of the various aspects of how are, uh, you know, how's the show, you know, broken down in terms of its pop art, like we've been talking about, or in terms of Adam's life, or in terms of the collecting side of things, you know, from, from our collector documentary or the bats, the round table,

what are we trying to achieve? How do we do all this? Thank God everything happened, you know, right place at the right time. And, and, and it was, it was one of those moments that lightning in a bottle did happen. It did. And that's rare. That's really rare. Working together, I think we had many instances where it was like, oh, be careful what you wish for because then you would get it.

But you would get it with a very tight timeline. So you'd be like, wow, I wanted to work on this project, but I wish I had more time. But you know what? Under the fire, under that pressure, we always delivered. We always had terrific stuff. You know, as a team, we were always very proud of what we delivered. Going a little bit back to Adam West's take though, when he saw the ideas, he saw that you wanted to do a piece that's very much focused on him. Did he have anything to say about that? Was he, what was his response? Adam, actually, by that point, I think he was ready to do something for the fans. I think he was ready to give his thank you and that he's had this great life.

Batman has always been a part of his life. He embodied it. And everywhere he went, people knew him. Sometimes that can work against you, but he never felt that it really did. So he was up for it. How deep he was going to go, we didn't know, but that is always determined by the team. It's always determined by who he's comfortable with. And I have to say for the one piece that we did hanging with Batman, we purchased this house for the day over in La Cunona. That was a Palm Springs house. And he had a house in Palm Springs. We knew that he'd be comfortable in something like that. And we also wanted to have a reflective pool because it was the simple staging that also shows the reflecting that he was going to be doing for us while he was talking to us. We wanted to set the stage for that. And Alex, I think, made him extremely comfortable. He opened up and Fred turned to me and he said, oh my God, Adam has never talked about this.

And it was a lot of those moments. You know, we walked away very, very happy. Yeah, I was watching, you know, I was rewatching before this podcast and I was going to ask you about, you know, where that house was. There was a lot of glass, there's the pool, just a really nice kind of set up there. The art direction for that was really nice. He comes across as just so comfortable and it just feels like you're, you just are able to kind of be a part of this conversation that you guys had there. Tell me a little bit about your memory of that interview, Alex.

I agree with Bonnie. One of these things is that Adam was at that point ready. Was he ready on our first interview? No, but we interviewed Adam multiple times. And I think with a guy like Adam, you had to get to know him. It's very old school. You want to know and test your mettle on some level, but he's such a gentleman and always was the consummate, just archetype of the gentleman. He would never try to openly let you know that, that he's kind of just kind of feeling things out sort of a thing. It's just make you feel comfortable and you're like, you're his best friend. And truly by the time we were shooting, hanging with Batman, Adam was ready to tell the story. But what's interesting about this is that Fred Westbrook, I'm not so sure that he was ready to allow his client to tell this story. And I understood why, of course, you know,

you have to protect your clients and you, he's got longevity, you know, and he's working on these shows like family guy, and he's working on this series with us, but there comes a time. And, you know, I've talked about this in the past as well, where you have to lay down a historical record. You've got to control that narrative and we should tell this story. It's for posterity. It's for a value, just being human and understanding that the greatest titans of us go through these various moments in our lives. And Fred was probably the one who would try to fight me against that on some level, but that's okay because good filmmaking and really getting into the heart of a subject requires that level of tenacity, that pursuit.

And so Fred, bless his heart, he unfortunately has passed away since, but again, a true gentleman and somebody that challenged me. And then I challenged him, I suppose, on some levels as well, to be able to look at the story in these capacities, because it's so important to us as fans of Adam. And for those of us that'll look at this as we're talking about the top of this conversation, some 50 years from now, some 100 years from now, and they can look back and understand what was Adam like. And that's important to get to the heart of it. So literally the day of that shoot, we call that the 2014 Adam West shoot, because in hanging with Batman, the idea of course, being that we wanted to hear Adam

in his voice throughout the various years, it's all him. He is the singular through line. But what's cool and interesting is you hear the evolution of his voice through the years because as he ages, and it almost sounds like as if it's some different person, they're communicating from the beyond. It's some of these old interviews and what have you. It was very, very cool. But sitting there with him just prior, this is a little, a bit of an anecdotal story here, but just prior to me walking out onto our quote unquote stage that we had set up in this home that we had rented, I had this moment where Fred pulled me aside again. He said, you know what? I don't know if we should go forward with these questions. I don't know if these are the right

ones. I think that some of them are right, but at the same token, I'm looking at them. I'm not so sure. And I told Fred, I said, you know what? You've got to trust your client because everything that I'm getting from him is that he wants to do this. And I believe in your heart as well, that you want to do this also. And you know, what's going to be right. And he looked me right in the eyes and he said, go for it. And I did. It was cool. It was awesome. It was a good moment. You know what? We needed that though, because getting challenged is an important aspect of filmmaking. If you were just the guy that calls all the shots in the room, well, that's sort of boring and you're never going to learn anything. You want to be the person that's always learning, always learning. And he, in this capacity was imparting You want to be the person that's always learning, always learning.

And he, in this capacity, was imparting his wisdom to me to look at in various ways to get into the heart of the material. These are the ways how and what have you. But the fact is that we were able to then reciprocate. I was able to reciprocate with him on that level. So he felt a little bit more at ease, maybe hopefully a little more enlightened as well. But when we sat down with Adam, he was so open. He was so open. It was awesome. And it was such a great series of dialogue moments that there's moments, Tim, where I was looking at Adam and going, I can't believe he's saying these things. I'm so thankful that he's saying these things

because we need this story. We needed these beats because he started his career in this, when just speaking about this particular show, it took off like a rocket and it sort of fizzled out for him. So he went through these interesting beats of his own life. His own hero's journey is very unique and very fascinating. So by the time he was sitting in that chair, he was ready to speak with me. He was ready to say, Hey, you know what? This is who I am. My vulnerability is part of my courage, but he had to embrace it. He had not embraced it for a long, long while. And he was very lost and he was okay saying it. He was okay saying that, you know, his time, both in life and professionally were not equitable to what he had wanted. But here he was at this juncture and he made a choice. He made a choice to be vulnerable in 2013, 2014, when probably around the time when that message came through that we are allowed to work on this series. So that's a huge step. Vulnerability is a big deal for an actor. It could be dangerous for them at times. It's dangerous really for any of us. But what it does, it propels us forward into an awesome approach wow I did not expect to get that level of intimacy and emotion you know anybody can sit down and

kind of recount oh yeah we did this on set and we did that and it was all wonderful and the good memories or or whatever but the humanity that just comes through fans of Adam West, fans of the show really need to watch Hanging with Batman because you get a real sense of Adam. And, you know, you obviously get a history of his career in Hollywood with Batman kind of as that key moment, you know, of the discussion, but you got just wonderful stuff, him growing up his life before his career. And then after some of the trials and some of the, the after effects of coming down from a show that just was such a pop culture hit of the moment. Um, just a great piece. Bonnie, do you have thoughts? You know, sometimes when people just trust you because we had spent so much time with him,

I really think that that helped to elevate this because he was exposing his heart to us. And we were sitting there and like I said before, we were watching this and I was really, really impressed that he did open up. There's a couple of times where he would say to Alex, he would shake his head and then he'd walk up and Alex would walk over to him. I don't know what they said, but then he'd sit back down and Alex go, okay, let's do it. Let's do it. During the interview. Yes. He did that only twice though. And he sat back down and he gave it to him. He, I didn't know what he said to Alex, but it certainly worked. I mean, but he trusted him and there's something about

that, you know, when you're working with someone that you know is going to control the conversation with you. And it is a conversation that that's when you can really dive deep into it and really get those moments. And for me, this is one of our stronger pieces. That's what I like about doing special features is when we get to dive really, really deep with someone like Adam. It's a rare opportunity. Alex, you had it with Frank Miller. We talked about that in a previous podcast episode, but it's rare to get somebody who's a legend. Years have gone by and now you can have that conversation with them. Looking back, you know, I have to ask you since Bonnie brought it up,

what were those moments? You don't have to say what they, what he's asked of you, but what were those? Was he just trying to get a little feedback from you or was he sharing concerns? It was feedback that he wanted, but it was wrapped in a sense of the core of it being concern. It's important that in, in any capacity, when you direct something and what does a director mean, you know, ultimately is, is working with your actors. The interviews are the closest things that we have to actors and to our performance and what have you. The interviews are not performing per se is all true, factual, evidential stories that they're sharing with us. But vulnerability, as we were talking about, becomes that component where they question themselves for that, for that, just that split

second and say, they become sort of that doubting Thomas kind of type. And they go, is this going to sound okay? Or what have you, can we take a moment? Can we take a breather? I like the fact that Adam wanted to do that. It's rare when you do see that level of treatment, but when it does come into the fold, it really makes that difference. So he did, he pulled me aside. I stopped the camera from rolling, of course, to give him, you know, that, that moment of privacy. And I just walk over, you know, I'm usually seated across from my interviews there. They, you know, they happen obviously pre COVID these happen live in person, you know, right across from one another. I walked right over to him and I said, look, you know, and I'll tell you what, what, what I said to him, ultimately the message was this. I told him you owe it to the fans. You've got to give them the story,

control the narrative. That's it. Just control the narrative and do it. And he looked at me and he said, okay, I'll do it. Yes. Then we sat back down and I said, okay, great. Now let's just start rolling again. Everybody, we get back into that mode again, but it takes sometimes those moments of courage to come through by way of, you and I talked about this in the past about that helping hand. That's a huge, important aspect to filmmaking always. And really in general of a nice guide to life is that you need people to sometimes give you those words of encouragement. Even those that occupy, like we were saying, the archetype of these legends that we have in our lives, you know, and the opportunity to be able to work with these legends like this, like Adam West. I mean, geez, I'm incredibly thankful, you know, on all these levels. There's a certain sense of courage on my behalf of wanting to even say that to him.

But you know what? I've always trusted my instinct, Tim. I really have. And I think it's so important to do that. I think it's something that people appreciate ultimately, because I'm not going to give them some sort of a sugarcoated reason. I'm going to say what they need to do. Because when Adam came to us, he knew this is the twilight of his years. This is his chance to give us that narrative. We know what's going on here with the rest of the Batman team as they've left us. We don't want him to depart us without those words being laid into stone, so to speak.

And then oddly enough, right after that, we hadn't received a bunch of photos that we wanted for this piece. And all of a sudden the next week, Fred's like, OK, Bon, I can give you this, this, and this, and this, because obviously he saw what had happened and it was extremely special. And we all knew that this was a key piece, a very, very special piece for the complete box set. So that was really fun too. I was going to ask you, there's a lot of personal photos in there. There's footage of him at home and that's what you're talking about. You know, for the fans, you, when you interview someone, Alex, you are not on camera. We don't hear you. So we only get the response. And as somebody who's produced extras and Bonnie, you can jump in here, but the way we know if an interview,

if you've done a great job producing and the interview itself is how that other person gives a response. And when you watch that piece, I wasn't there. I don't know what you were saying, but I can just tell from the way he opened up that you just did an amazing job with that interview of letting him know he's in good hands, that you're going to treat this material well. And as you said, it's his opportunity to set the narrative for the fans to tell his story. And nobody can, nobody can change that story now. He said it there. I love this piece. Thank you. My favorite, of course, of all of them, because I just felt afterwards, I just know so much more about Adam West, the person than before.

It just made me love him even more, of course, as I think probably all the fans will feel as well. Yeah, because it's like one of these things where Adam's life was blessed in many respects. You look at his early career, the man was starting off to be, to become this leading man type. I mean, let's just call the record what it is. The man is a very good looking guy and he's walking onto that stage or onto that scene. Uh, he commands the presence of that audience, that camera. And boy, did that guy know how to play it to camera? He was, he was exquisite at that. And it's, it's, it's much to the testament of his ability, his innate ability to be able to do this, that his expectation probably, if we put ourselves in the mind and the heart of Adam West, actually made it that much more interesting because of the fact that he was able to tap into his comedic side as well and to be able to be in a project like this. Yet the most fascinating aspect of it all for me when actually

producing this is the reality about, again, a person's hero's journey and what they have to go through. So yes, he took off like this rocket and he crossed that threshold. He became this mega star. I mean, truly, this was like the Beatles. This was like our version of Star Wars. It's that level of treatment. And you pick your actor in Star Wars, if it's Mark Hamill, you immediately know who that is. That's the level of household name that Adam West was at that point. For him to lose all that all of a sudden and then go into this valley was very poignant. There's a profundity that comes out of that because how do you make your way through that? He, in his case, he abandoned a lot of it because he didn't want to be known only as Batman.

And even he brings up in our film about the fact that he, you know, he wasn't going to be cast with the next leading lady because they saw him as being more of this comedic actor at this point. That is a tough road to get through. We hear about this because of actors becoming pigeonholed. We've certainly heard that commentary for many actors, especially the action stars and what have you. They're never in other things. They were just in action movies and then they go out like a, like as if they're a shooting star and they're just gone. Adam had to work through that and God bless him because he did. And he worked through it in every capacity that he could to finally get to the fact that in our film, one of the most important

aspects is, is that he was at a low point, the super low point. He talks about how he was shot out of a can and how he had to take on Jerry Lawler in this wrestling match. He had to play at Batman donning this mask. And mind you, at that point, he had gained a couple of pounds and everything. He wasn't the same Batman that we knew. And his voice was a little bit different. And then comes 1989. And we see that in the interview that we have of him. And he's a little angry in there. And that's okay.

I like that because it played up to what was going on that he says, you know what? My Batman's still out there. I'm in a billion households that are able to see this version of Batman. But he had to go through that and to have that moment where he restores his character. How? How did that happen? It happened probably just prior to him agreeing to do this series. And I've looked at it deductively and I've thought like, well, it must be somewhere around there that he finally said, you know what, I'm going to embrace my fans truly, even though he was always one that was gregarious, one that would attend, you know, these shows,

the Comic-Con type shows and things like this, but really embracing the fact that he is Batman on and off screen. That's a commitment. And he recognized the fact that he had to do that because to do that means he becomes transcendent. And that's what we wanted to achieve. So by the time we see the footage of Comic-Con and how he was brought out to Comic-Con on that stage, he was fully embedded, embraced in the fact that he was Batman and wanted to impart that to the world because that lasts forever. That lasts forever. And that is something that Adam West left us with at that point. And that was the message ultimately to say he had his redemption

in his life because that's what he was seeking. He wanted that on a lot of levels. I sensed that to a great extent when sitting down with him and I had a feeling that it could be there. I didn't know exactly. And believe me, like we talked about a little bit ago, it scared the bejesus out of Fred. He was like, no, we're not going to go there. But I had a feeling that this must be there because it's, I mean, he's, he's a man, a woman, whatever you want to call it. Like just in general, he is us. He is human. Uh, we have these feelings that we go through these moments we go through in our lives. How do we surface from that? Bonnie, what was Fred's and Adam's response to this piece once they saw it? Do you recall? Yeah, I do recall. I do recall that they were unbelievably happy.

Fred called me and I said, hey, so would you see the piece? Because we obviously showed it to them so that we could get their approval, get their blessing. Adam made absolutely no changes. He was beyond happy. And Fred was, Fred actually began to understand what we were going for when he saw the piece completed. Then he realized really what was going on here and that this was Adam's final interviews, if you will, in some ways. And this was definitely one of his best pieces ever, love letter to the fans.

And it's the only way I can put it because really that's what he did. He wanted everyone to know what he went through. And like Alex just said, that he came out the other side and he is still Batman. Right. And he's forever Batman. On a lot of levels, there's even the profound nature of the fact that, and unfortunately, we are all very sad. Obviously we've lost Adam now at this point, but he is and will always be our Batman. And I know in past, we've talked about the fact that how much I was into the Dark Knight Returns and I'm more into the dark and brooding version of the, of the Batman character,

which is of course, harkens back to our earliest stuff with the, the Bob Kane, Bill Finger, Jerry Robinson work from the golden age. But the thing is, this is that realistically speaking, what was the thing that happened for me on Saturday morning, Saturday afternoons, excuse me, was this series was watching and getting those glimpses of it,

getting, getting in a entree, if you will, my first Batman, everybody's got their first Batman. This was my first Batman, but the one their first Batman. This was my first Batman. The one that became my Batman ultimately was the adult version. And I was honest enough to tell Adam that, of course, as well. But he appreciated, of course, all of it. He saw in his latter part

of his life the importance of the 1989 movie, the Michael Uslan produced picture, the Tim Burton film, and why that was so relevant for all of us. And to, and then of course, all the other films that followed, including of course, the Christopher Nolans. I mean, he just loved all of those movies and he understood that Batman is malleable. Batman is applicable. You could take Batman in every sort of capacity and you could make something incredible out of it. And it took Adam, I think a moment to understand that, but when he did embrace that part of it as well, he realized, as he famously has said, he is known as the billion dollar Batman because he kicked it all off in his words. He started it. I can't help but think about the extras and a lot of what we do is very much promotion.

We're promoting the movie, we're promoting the stars, we're promoting the product, we're helping marketing. It's part of what extras do. But when you get an opportunity to do a piece that's not promotion, yes, it's used as an extra, but that is really a documentary of a person's life. And that's what this piece is. It's a terrific opportunity. I just was blown away by the way you two executed it. It's so fun to hear that Fred and Adam really enjoyed the outcome. And I think it's one that the fans can really, really absorb and take to heart. And now we forever have that piece. One of the key tests too, and Bonnie, you'll remember this part as well, is that we wanted to add another version of Adam's voice

throughout this. So it wasn't just going to be the 2014 interview, the 1980s, late 80s interview, and a couple of other interviews that we had acquired. We also wanted to write some narrative moments to really kind of encapsulate various sections to bridge them together, to work through that. And I recall my, my, my, my writer who was on this with me as well, Chris Kraft, who is one of the writers on this. And then myself, we were both penning these lines fast and furiously, because as you know, the schedule was nutty. So we're sitting there writing this and we're, and then we finally found out, oh, we can record Adam at a place in San Diego. Ironically, this place was called Studio West,

but there were Studio West sound, I believe something like that. And Adam just loved it, of course, because now he's surrounded by multiple Studio Wests and everything. And obviously his last name being West, but we were there. And here's my testament to the way that I knew Adam was super into this piece at that point is because he looked at the pages of what we had written and Wes is already said, like, um, I want to rewrite some of these into my way that I think I'm going to be able to, to deliver those moments. And I said, yeah, that's awesome. So yeah, I got rewritten by Adam West and that's so cool.

That's my little badge of honor there, right? Totally. That is very, very true. He looked at it and he's like, yeah, yeah. Okay. Alex, can we talk about this a minute? Can I like have a half hour and you can just, you know, go over and do whatever you're going to do. And I'm going to rewrite this a bit.

It was great. It was really great. That's like a badge of honor right there. Totally. And seeing him, cause he was in the booth while we were in the producer's section and we're sitting there and like Chris and I were working together, like, you know, fast and furiously again, talking about filmmaking, the process of filmmaking, you are always writing. You don't stop writing.

We're there looking literally 10 feet away. Adam West is in front of me inside of a glass booth, you know, a soundproof booth. So our sound does not enter his environment. We're sitting there, we're working on it. He's working on it together. It became collaborative. It was such a awesome, awesome moment like that. And I remember even like kind of looking over to Bonnie. Bonnie's just like, yeah, this is cool. The thumbs up she's given me. This is a good moment here because that's the point when somebody makes it their own. Right. And you welcome it into the process and they become a part of it. It's not my voice. It's our voice at that point. It's our voice. It's a movie by all of us, like in that capacity. So that helped.

voice. It's a movie by all of us, like in that capacity. So that helped. You've been listening to the first episode of a multi-part series on the Batman 66 box set. In our next episode, we will continue our remembrance of Adam West with the discussion on the extra Holy Memorabilia Batman, where we highlight Batman 66 collectors, Ralph Garman, who is a voice actor and radio personality in LA, Kevin Silva, who has the Guinness record for having the most Batman 66 items in his collection, and Batmobile replica maker Mark Rakup. And we hear the very personal stories

of working with Adam and Fred on the extra, inventing Batman in the words of Adam West. For those of you interested in learning more about what was discussed in the show today, including pictures of Alex and Bonnie with Adam West and Fred Westbrook, there will be detailed information on the website at www.theextras.tv. Also, follow the show on Facebook or Twitter at TheExtrasTV or Instagram at TheExtras.tv to stay up to date on the latest episodes and for exclusive images and behind the scenes information about the episodes and upcoming guests. And if you're enjoying the show, please

subscribe and leave us a review at iTunes, Spotify, or your favorite podcast provider. Until next time, you've been listening to The Extras with Tim Millard. Stay slightly obsessed. The Extras is a production of Otaku Media, producers of podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connects creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals at www.otakumedia.tv or look for the link in the show notes.