The Extras - "Dr. No" and 60 Years of James Bond

Episode Date: October 4, 2022

Internationally acclaimed James Bond expert and author Steven Jay Rubin joins the podcast to celebrate the 60th anniversary of “Dr. No” and the James Bond film franchise.We start with a discussion of his newly updated “The James Bond Movie Encyclopedia,” the ultimate resource for Bond fans and collectors.  Then we discuss the early development of the first Bond film before getting into a detailed discussion of “Dr. No,” which was released in the UK on October 5, 1962.  Steven provides background on the casting of a fairly unknown Scottish actor by the name of Sean Connery as James Bond and his collaboration with director Terence Young to establish the character.  We also discuss the importance of Joseph Wiseman’s portrayal of the first filmed Bond villain, Dr. No, and how it established the tone of the villains that followed.  And we discuss the other cast, including then-unknown actress Ursula Andress in one of the most iconic introductions in film history. We also discuss the importance of composer Monty Norman, the opening titles created by Maurice Binder, Peter Hunt's fast-paced editing style, and production designer Ken Adam's incredible sets.  We bookend the discussion with a detailed review of the most recent film, “No Time to Die” starring Daniel Craig in his last role as Bond. We review the rocky start of the film and the controversial ending of the movie.  We also discuss Craig’s impact on the Bond legacy and some of our favorite stunts and scenes in the films.   We finish up the celebration with a fun rapid-fire sequence where we learn which films are fan favorites, the most popular Bond actor, and what the future holds for the franchise.Purchase on Amazon:The James Bond Movie EncyclopediaDr. No Blu-ray No Time to Die 4KGuest Linkswww.stevenjayrubin.comFacebookOtaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers.  Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals.  www.otakumedia.tvThe Sitcom StudyWelcome to the Sitcom Study, where we contemplate the TV shows we grew up with and...Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify The Extras Facebook pageThe Extras Twitter Warner Archive & Warner Bros Catalog GroupOtaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals. www.otakumedia.tv

Hi, I'm film historian and author John Fricke. I've written books about Judy Garland and the Wizard of Oz movie, and you're listening to The Extras. Hello and welcome to The Extras, where we take you behind the scenes of your favorite TV shows, movies, and animation, and they're released on digital, DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K, or your favorite streaming site. I'm Tim Millard, your host. My guest today is an internationally recognized author, film historian, producer, screenwriter,

and documentarian. He is the author of nine books, including The Twilight Zone Encyclopedia. But more importantly for our discussion today, he is recognized internationally as the world's leading authority on the James Bond movie series. He was the first writer to publish a book that went behind the scenes of the world of 007 with the James Bond films of behind the scenes history. That came out in 1981. And he has since followed that up with the James Bond movie encyclopedia,

which has just been completely revised and updated this year. And over the years, he has been involved in some extras for releases of the James Bond movies. In 1992, he was involved in the early special edition Criterion LaserDisc of the first three Bond movies. More recently, he produced the extras to accompany the Blu-ray release of both the 1967 Casino Royale and Never Say Never Again. And he also works on extras for many other titles. I'm excited to have him on to talk all things James Bond and to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the release of the very first Bond film, Dr. No, on October 5th. Stephen J. Rubin, welcome to The Extras Podcast. Hi, Tim. How are you? Good, good. So it was great to run

across your work. I know that you're acknowledged as basically the world's leading authority on the James Bond movies. You've written so many books about it, but how does that journey start? How do you get to be that expert? You know, I guess it starts by being a fan like all of us. You generally write about things you're passionate about. So it pretty much starts when I'm 12 years old. My dad would go out on business trips and he would bring back Westerns paperbacks. And I didn't have any interest in reading Western paperbacks because I was watching about 19 Westerns on television. But one day in 1964, he threw a paperback on my desk with a picture of a naked woman on the cover. She was all in gold, of course, and tastefully camouflaged. But he said,

you might like that. And that was Goldfinger. And I had no idea what that was. Although starting in the next few weeks, I noticed that all the people in my junior high school classroom had these paperbacks on their desk in various colors. And that was the signet issue of the first James Bond books in the States, which corresponded with John F. Kennedy revealing that he was a big From Russia With Love fan. It was on his top 10. So I became a huge fan. And of course, that was the year that Goldfinger debuted. So shortly after reading the book, we went up to the Chinese theater in Hollywood, which was a rare occurrence for us. We were West LA people. We didn't go up to Hollywood very often, but it seemed to be the right thing to do for Goldfinger. And God, what a movie to see. That was my first James Bond movie. The Doctor No one from Rushwood Love Films had kind

of passed through LA and I hadn't noticed them for some reason. They weren't released with the kind of fanfare associated with Goldfinger. So I just, like all of us, we became super fans. And then years passed. I graduated UCLA as a history major, I was a writer, I wrote for my college paper, I was starting to work on my first book, which happened to be a book called Combat Films, American Realism 1945 to 1970, kind of a clinical title. And it was published by McFarlane and sold 500 copies. So I realized that if I wanted to be a successful author, I needed to find a subject that was a little bit more far reaching than combat films. So at that time, I had been a writer for Cinefantastique

in Chicago, the film magazine. Fred Clark was kind of a mentor for me. And I had kind of, I don't know if I pioneered it, but I certainly was one of the first film historians to do forensic research into classic films. And when I mean forensic research, I mean, I tracked down as many people who were still alive who actually worked on the film. And that became the blueprint for going to Cubby Broccoli in 1977 to do the history of the James Bond films. Yeah. And at that point in 77, how many Bond films had been out? Well, they had just wrapped The Spy Who Loved Me. So we were probably 10 or 11 films in. We were probably 10 or 11 films in.

And it was just a great time to be covering Bond. Now, I was not the first person to do a book on James Bond. John Brosnan had done a book called James Bond in the Cinema. But it was not the kind of book that I wanted to do. I wanted to get heavily into the history and know specifically when they shot things and who shot them. And I got Broccoli on a good day. He enjoyed the interview and offered to introduce me to Michael Wilson in London that summer. So I went over to London with kind of carte blanche, and they opened the files to me. He let me photocopy the call sheets for the first 10 Bond movies.

If I wanted to know when they were shooting the Goldfinger car chase, I knew exactly when they were shooting it because I had the call sheet. It told me who was in the cast that day, even gave me lots of little interesting behind-the-scenes details about who else was there. So I went nuts. I mean, the whole access was so important to my first book, which was the James Bond films of behind the scenes history. That was your first book. And it was what, maybe a little bit later that you did the first version of the encyclopedia. Yeah, nine years later, the first the first book, the James Bond films of behind the scenes history came out in 81. It was updated in 83 to include For Your Eyes Only and Never Say Never Again.

And then in 1990, I was approached by Contemporary Books, which had success with an Elvis encyclopedia and a Marilyn Monroe encyclopedia. And they asked me if I would do a James Bond movie encyclopedia, which was kind of a fun exercise for me because I had a lot of the research already done. It was more of a formulating the book rather than writing the book because I basically took all of the elements of the James Bond movies, the character names, the locations, every behind the scenes detail I could find, actor bios, plot references, and I incorporated it into an encyclopedia. I'll tell you right now, if there had been no computers in 1990, I don't think I would have done the book because you need to re-alphabetize every two minutes. And of course, with a manual typewriter would have been

impossible. Right, right. Well, I just purchased and I have behind me the latest version of the Encyclopedia, which just came out. And you did a lot of new content. And you also updated it through the last film. Tell us a little bit about this release. Well, I came to the conclusion that I'm thinking of from the reader's point of view, the last two editions of the James Bond encyclopedia were not re-alphabetized. They just threw the Pierce Brosnan movies in the back of the book. And I didn't like that. I thought it was a complete waste of effort on my part. So if I said I'm going to do another encyclopedia, we need to completely re-illustrate and bring it up to format. And Chicago Review Press, which had published my previous book, The Twilight Zone

Encyclopedia, really got me to get rid of a lot of real minutiae that would only appeal to really certain fans and go for more information. So I augmented the biographies because I've always been very high on giving the actors their due and talking about their careers both before and after Bond. So that was great. And then by 2020, I had developed some relationships around the world with collectors who had photographs. And I was able to almost completely re-illustrate the book. And also, Chicago Review Press allowed me to have color for the first time. So it really makes the book very special. And then I got support from some terrific artists, including Jeff Marshall, who let me use 20 of his paintings, which just really

makes the book. Yeah, I mean, I was flipping through it. And it's a wealth of information, obviously, for the Bond aficionado, just the ease of finding things was great. But to your point, the pictures, they're great. I love seeing the both the behind the scenes photos, but also the paintings, the poster art. The pictures just make it fun because then you can kind of browse it. But when you're going through, it reminds you, oh, I saw that in that film. And, you know, whether you're doing it alphabetical or just kind of flipping to a page and just start reading. Next thing you know, you know, half hour has gone by, an hour has gone by, and you've just kind of enjoyed reminding yourself or going back and reliving some of the films. Yeah. And I also got to feature, I got permission from Signet. So I was able to

feature the covers of those first James Bond novels I read as a kid. Oh, it was kind of fun to revisit those as well. In fact, I still, I have them in storage now, but I still have those paperbacks. I just can't quite give them away, even though they're kind of disintegrating a little bit. You know, a 60-year-old paperback doesn't have a long shelf life. Right. Well, that leads us right into the main part of our discussion today, which is the 60th anniversary of the release of the very first Bond film, Dr. No, which is going to be noted here this October 5th, 2022. And that's the release date in the UK. It was released in the US a little later in the next year. But I really wanted to kind of dive into this film with you since you have the encyclopedia. And there's a really a

wealth of things you can talk about with this film because it's the original, you know, it's the one that started it all. It's the one that set the standard. And a lot of the things we expect out of a James Bond film were begun there. How did that film come together? Well, it was not supposed to be the first James Bond film. The first James Bond film was going to be Thunderball. But unfortunately, Ian Fleming, Thunderball. But unfortunately, Ian Fleming, just a magnificent writer, but made a big faux pas when he was starting out with the movie business. He met a young filmmaker named Kevin McClory, who was recommended to him. And Kevin read all the books that were present. This is like in the late 50s. So Ian had written six or seven of the Bond novels. And McClory thought that they weren't very cinematic for his purposes. He had been an assistant director with Mike Todd on the movie

Around the World in 80 Days. So he was thinking spectacle. So he suggested to Ian that they collaborate on a Bond story that could be made into a film. So they brought a screenwriter in named Jack Whittingham, and the three of them collaborated on a A-bomb hijacking story, which was originally titled Latitude 78 West, which was the location in the Bahamas where the A-bomb bomber gets waylaid. But at that time, and this again is 58, 59, 60, they weren't able to sell the project to anybody. And what happened was they parted ways and Ian Fleming took the story of Latitude 78 West and wrote a novel called Thunderball. But he didn't credit Jack Whittingham or Kevin McClory.

So he was sued in the High Court of London. A lengthy lawsuit took place. It was a big faux pas on Ian Fleming's part that he didn't consult his partners. So the result was he lost the rights to Thunderball to McClory, the film rights. So Albert R. Broccoli and Harry Saltzman, who had started to make the James Bond movies, get them into development. Thunderball was pulled from their pool because they couldn't use it. So they decided to go with Dr. No. Looking at Dr. No today, it's a very special movie for me because it's kind of a transition movie from 1950s filmmaking to the 1960s and beyond. Albert R. Broccoli and Harry Saltzman, the producers, brought together a very good team. And one of the key elements of that team was the editor, Peter Hunt, who really

believed that things had to really move. And the editing technique, which he later told me he pulled a lot from television commercials, was helpful in moving that story along. Not to say that it ever flagged anyways. I mean, Dr. No was loaded with stuff. But I think Peter Hunt contributed a great deal. Richard Maybaum, the screenwriter, had been working with Cubby Broccoli for a while with his other company, with Irving Allen. So he knew Maybaum's abilities. And I think what Richard brought to the script was some throwaway humor. You know, you read the James Bond novels, there's not a lot of funny.

I mean, basically, it's pretty straight detective spy fiction. pretty straight detective spy fiction. So Maybaum, I always say that there's the great line where Bond is being chased by the hearse and the hearse goes over the cliff, explodes in fire, and the construction worker comes running up and says, how did it happen? And Bond, portrayed magnificently by Sean Connery, looks over and says, I think they're on their way to a funeral. You know, that's what you call throwaway humor. It's not designated as comedy, but it's kind of witty banter. And, you know, all sorts of things like that, that just the sexiness of the series from the get go was great. You know, I love that. And I think then, of course, you have Terrence Young, the director, who was, you know, a bit of a journeyman. He wasn't really known for getting big films done. He'd done some films in England, was respected. Interestingly, was kind of mentored by John Ford, who was referred to disparagingly by U.S. exhibitors as that

limey truck driver. They didn't know who this guy was. They obviously wanted Cary Grant or somebody of that ilk. But he kind of polished him a little bit. He polished the app a little bit. And Sean, from that first moment at the Chemin de Fer table, the Baccarat table, by the way, somebody has to explain to me one day what the difference is between Chemin de Fer table, the Baccarat table. By the way, somebody has to explain to me one day what the difference is between Chemin de Fer and Baccarat.

I guess they're very similar games. But anyway, he looks very polished. Yeah, I was watching the, just re-watching the movie, the Blu-ray, I should say. And this show is called The Extras because we talk about the home entertainment releases and we talk about some of the extras that are on there. And so I was watching them and there's some really good stuff that goes into just that partnership between director Terrence

Young and Sean Connery. They give a lot of credit to Terrence Young for kind of being James Bond in real life in the sense of not obviously the spy stuff, but the suave element, the air that he had and the lifestyle he lived and the, you know, the kind of the elegance that he walked with and things of that nature. And that Sean, you know, was a little bit rough around the edges that he, you know, to your point, and that he needed a little bit of a polishing and everything, but that the two of them obviously deserve so much credit for creating the character of Bond. Yes, yes.

You know, people often ask me, who's the best Bond? Who is the best Bond? And I'm a huge Daniel Craig fan. I think Daniel Craig is kind of channeling early Sean Connery, you know, gritty, you know, no nonsense, no BS. He's certainly not the elegant Roger Moore Bond, which, of course, we can't do anymore. The world has changed quite a bit. But Sean Connery brought a sense of menace to the character. You know, when I sat in Albert R. Broccoli's office way back in 77, asked him about the Bonds,

one of my questions was, how did you see James Bond transitioning from book to movies? And he said they were looking for somebody who had the ability to throw a punch. They were very much impressed by the pulp fiction of Mickey Spillane, you know, Mike Hammer, you know, the American detective who would speak with his fists. And they didn't want him to be so much an elegant spy. They wanted him to be a two-fisted American version of a British spy. So that's how Connery came in. And I think one of the first things that Broccoli heard about, his wife told him to watch a Disney movie at that time called Darby O'Gill and the Little

People. And Sean has a moment where he gets to use his fists and he comes across physically very good. Well, I was listening to the extras and they also talked a little bit about the fact that, you know, was it the standards that that showing certain kinds of violence, you know, were things that this film also pushed the boundaries of some of that. Is that also kind of tie into some of the menace that they wanted Bond to have, some of the physical prowess as well? They wanted to push some of that? Well, by 1962, the codes that, you know, kind of govern movies were being, were changing. They were adjusted. I mean, they were being tested everywhere. And I think that on the violence level, everybody points to

the moment in Dr. No where Bond takes care of Professor Dent. It was meant to show off the ruthlessness of Bond. I mean, this is a guy who's been trying to kill Bond. He's not going to ask him to go to jail quietly. He's just going to take him out because James Bond has a license to kill. He's got to take these guys out. And I think that the James Bond movies started to test it a little bit, although I would hardly call the early James Bond films over violent. I mean, you know, you want to see violence, go over to see a Sam Peckinpah film or, you know, that kind of thing. They're fairly mellow. I mean, they're obviously moments which become intensely violent. I'm always reminded of the train compartment fight

in From Russia With Love between Bond and Grant. still probably the best action sequence in the series in many levels. But just to zoom ahead, I mean, today, the level of violence in motion pictures has reached an ultimate level. I mean, we see everything now with lots of blood and violence. Interestingly, considering we're talking about the James Bond movies, the violence has gone up, the sexiness has gone down. You know, you can't do a lot of the things you did back in the 60s. But I'd say that the early Connery Bonds show Bond as a true killer employed by the British government. And I think the scenes play that out very nicely. Well, there are so many other things in this movie that also set the tone. Let's just dive into some of them, but this is not in any order of importance. But that opening credit sequence

that Maurice Binder made, talk a little bit about that, because that really set the standard for, you know, I was rewatching even No Time to Die. You get that flashback in the opening for that film to that original one. You know, it's interesting. I got a chance to have a nice interview with Maurice Binder, and he's a very, very complex guy. I think he started his career in advertising. He worked for the studios designing movie posters and ad campaigns. And he told me that when they came to him with Bond, he remembers cutting out little circles with his equipment to create the little three dot motive for James Bond. Bender was very creative. The opening title sequence is a little schizophrenic because it jumps from different points of view. You've got some rotoscoping of dancers, and then you break into the three blind mice. You've got this

dancing. And then, of course, you've got John Barry's plucked guitar theme. Interestingly, there's been some controversy over the years because Monty Norman gets credit for the James Bond theme. My impression of the whole experience, and it's talked about at length in John Burlingame's excellent book on the music of James Bond. My impression is that when Monty Norman delivered the opening theme, he did not have the plucked guitar. That was John Barry, because he peeled it from some of his previous instrumentals. The funny thing is, John Barry never saw the movie before he created that little pluck guitar theme, which is kind of funny because you always get the impression that for inspiration, the musicians need to see the

movie before they write anything. Well, Barry told me that he didn't see anything. That's crazy. It's so good. It's the most, I think that the twilight zone theme are kind of number one and number two in the world in terms of memorable themes yeah it's it's a great beginning and i was going to ask you about the music because it endures and to credit monty norman he did write some other songs that became iconic under the mango tree. And that has started the legacy of there always being some kind of a theme song, I think, in every bond. The producers are very smart. I think that this is a new era of filmmaking. I think that

the 60s brought kind of a... There have been soundtrack albums, of course. We were buying them. I bought my first soundtrack in 1960. I bought the themes from the movie The Alamo, the John Wayne Alamo. But the idea of tying in a title song with a potential music album for a potential hit record, these ideas of merchandising, the Bond movies were probably the first movie to really go hog wild in merchandising. How many people bought the Goldfinger car when it came out and all the attendant material from every future Bond films. So turning a movie into an event was something that... The Bonds debut in 62. So it's 13 years until Jaws created the standard summer tentpole. I would argue that the Bonds are the first real tentpoles, even though

we've had epic films going back to Gone with the Wind in the 30s. I think the Bond films kind of set the tone for the epic pop cultural film experience. You know, now, everything's a tentpole. There's nothing but tentpoles, and they're soaking up most of the film financing in the world. So for independent filmmakers like myself, trying to make smaller films, good luck. The Bond movies, it certainly establishes how times have changed. The budget for Dr. No was just a little north of $1 million. Now, in 62, that got you a lot more movie than it would today. But just the thought of making a whole movie like Dr. No, which is not a little movie by any stretch of the imagination.

It takes you into some huge location sequences. You've got a lot of performers, a lot of on-site location work. It's such a beautiful film. I also watched it recently at a screening. Fathom, which does those in theaters events, did a Dr. No thing. And I still love that movie for so many reasons. The Extras is a production of Otaku Media, producers of podcasts, behind the scenes extras, and media that connects creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers.

Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals at www.otakumedia.tv or look for the link in the show notes. Well, you can't talk about Dr. No without probably one scene that captured everybody's imagination. And that's the scene where Ursula Andress steps out of the water. She played Honey Rider. Talk a little bit about the impact of that scene for the popularity and just the talking about it and everything. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

Hi, this is Tim Millard, host of The Extras Podcast. And I wanted to let you know that we have a new private Facebook group for fans of the Warner Archive and Warner Brothers catalog physical media releases. So if that interests you, you can find the link on our Facebook page or look for the link in the podcast show notes. Well, several critics have said that it is the most famous introduction of an actress in film history because Ursula Andres was unknown. I mean, I think this was her first film experience, pretty much. And it's a stunning sequence. And you know, it's funny, the idea of a woman in a bikini as commonplace as it would think today, back in 62 was a little bit more risque, you know, and

I think Ursula kind of designed her own little skimpy costume. There's not a lot to design there. There's the belt, I guess, with the knife. It's funny, because, you know, in the book, she comes out of the water naked. And when Bond surprises her, one hand reaches down to her privates, and the other hand reaches up to her broken nose and leaving her magnificent breasts to be exposed as Fleming so colorfully describes. But it's a great sequence. Interestingly, that year, 62, was also the introduction. No. But that kind of leads us into all the other great actors and the performances. Trivia Marathon. I have organized Trivia Marathon several times. So the Herald Express at that time, or the Herald Examiner, was a local newspaper, and they actually published five of the questions from the trivia. And one of them was named the James Bond movie where James Bond actually sings. So interestingly, Johnny Carson saw that article in the Herald Examiner, and he had Sean Connery

on his show that night. And he takes out the article about my trivia contest and asked Sean Connery the trivia questions. And actually, I think Sean, if I'm not mistaken, Sean starts singing a little bit of Underneath the Mango Tree. Yeah, which is what she's singing as she comes out of the water. Right, right. Yeah, that's a great scene.

Well, the other actors who really set the tone, because this was meant to be the first of a series of films, correct? Correct. Yeah. So you had Bernard Lee as M, and then you had Jack Lord. I don't know if he was in any of the other films, was he? No, Jack Lord just made the one James Bond movie. Felix Leiter does not appear in From Rest Your Love.

And then when it came time to cast Goldfinger and they needed Felix, I don't think Lord was available. I think he may have already started to work on Hawaii Five-0. So they had to recast and they've recast Felix Leiter so many times. There's been like eight or nine Felix Leiters. Yeah, it was great to see him, though, in those years before Hawaii Five-0 playing that role. And he brings real life to it, even though it's not a huge role. Felix Leiter has never been meant to be much of an action figure. He's more of the CIA rep on location. Rick Van Nooter in

Thunderball gets to fly the helicopter and do a little bit more work with Bond, but the Felix's very seldom get involved in shooting. I know that Bernie Casey in Never Say Never Again doesn't participate in the final gun battle in the ruins of the Tears of Allah. But usually Felix Leiter's are minor parts. Right. Well, the other big one we have to talk about is the villain, which Dr. No is played by Joseph Wiseman. And he really set a tone for the villains that I think has been the standard going forward, wasn't it? Absolutely. The key to the villains is larger than life. In fact, the problems with some Bond movies is that they don't measure up to that larger

than life template. Dr. No is something right out of the comic books. I remember seeing the Dr. No comic book. It was a DC special. And I remember Dr. No being in that comic book. Yeah, Dr. No. And he comes into the movie very late. He's only really in the last half hour of the movie, although you hear his voice early on. And Joseph Wiseman just wonderfully portrays him. I think it's one of the highlights of the movie. And that repartee that takes place at the dinner table at Crab Key is just terrific. You are just another stupid policeman. I just love the way he says that. And of course, the movie is named Dr. No. I mean, how many of the Bond movies are named after the villain?

It's true. It's true. No. I mean, how many of the Bond movies are named after the villain? It's true. It's true. Absolutely. Puts a lot of importance right on him out of the gate. And so even though you don't see him on screen for all that time, his presence is right there. I have a friend, a publicist named Jerry Pam, and he was looking for programming information when Dr. No came out. And he called up a local theater and asked them what's playing. And the tenant said, scene Connery in Dr. Number. Wow. So I thought that was pretty funny. Yeah, Joseph Wiseman is great. Now when I wrote the

Twilight Zone encyclopedia, I noted that he's in an episode which may have been seen by the producers. The thing about Dr. No is how understated he is. He's very slow and methodical in both his movements and his dialogue. It's very clipped. And I think that that was just so perfect for that character and that voice, you know, that voice in the speakers when Professor Dent comes to visit him, warning of Bond's imminent arrival.

And he says, sit down. Why do you violate my strictest rule and come in daylight? Just the way he says that sounds like he's an invader from outer space. Oh, man, it's fantastic. And along with Dr. No, I think you can't get away with the discussion. I mean, you have to mention the how Ken saves so much money because the reactor room alone looks like it costs $10 million. And all of the other sets, but you know, you see Dr. No's lair where Dent is sitting there. Very ingenious. And I got a chance to

spend a lot of time with Ken Adam and he just knew how to spend money very carefully. And the amount of creativity in those sets is off the charts. The reactor room would today, if you Ted Moore's cinematography really beautifully shows off those sets as well as the landscapes of Jamaica. Yeah. And that scene, the lair, the gambling scene, which actually starts the movie, but was built there back in Pinewood Studios. All of that you see in every Bond movie. You know, there's so much. you've got to have the gambling scene. You've got to have the, the villain's lair. And he just set the tone for all that. And it's really amazing. And as you say,

for the budget, are you, are you kidding me? You know, it's, it's amazing stuff. I don't know how accurate it is, but they said the budget for No Time to Die was close to $300 million. And you can see how crazy the film business has become in terms of the use of digital effects and how expensive things are. It's a little scary when you think of those numbers, but they've become a rule. I mean, when James Cameron was about to release Titanic and it came out that his movie cost $200 million. The town went crazy. Right. You can't make a movie for $200 million.

You'll never make your money back. Of course, it grossed over a billion and went on to film history. Today, it seems like every movie is $200 to $300 million, at least on the epic scales. But the Bond movies have always spent their money carefully. When people ask me about what you should see on the big screen, I always recommend that they see a Bond movie on the big screen because that's what it's designed for. And one of the reasons for that we haven't really touched on are the action sequences, the stunts, and of course the cars. So you have the DB5, which is the Bond car. Yeah. And they've recognized that because they keep bringing it back.

It's kind of beautifully used in No Time to Die with the machine guns blazing. Sure, sure. I mean, I talk about that first movie I saw, Goldfinger, when Q is introducing the car. Now, you're a 12-year-old kid looking up at the screen at this sleek sports car, this sleek silver sports car, and saying, wow, would I love to drive one of those with all the gadgets? That was a big thing for us back in the early 60s. And, you know, the car has been beloved ever since. When I was watching Dr. No, and then I watched No Time to Die, I couldn't help but notice the references, the scene shot in that kind of grittiness. And then also the fact that Sean Connery, he was working out, he was trying to get in shape to do this role, things that,

you know, not every Bond has been as much of that. But Daniel Craig, of course, has been well known for doing, you know, a lot of his stunts and really changing his physique for the very first film he was in. I love Daniel Craig. To me, he has taken the Bond series for a whole new generation at a time when the world has become much darker. The Bond movies, except for a few times, have stuck to a realistic story. This is an agent whose flesh and blood he can be killed. This isn't a guy wearing a cape who flies around. Right. You know, this is a real agent. I mean, my problem with Moonraker was sending Bond on the space shuttle is just a little too much for me. That was during the Roger Moore era and the Roger Moore era delved a little bit more into fantasy and adventure to huge success, by the way. And anybody who says any bad thing about

Roger Moore, I will immediately push back on them because Roger introduced the Bonds to a whole new generation who didn't necessarily want to see the dark spy thriller anymore. And in fact, it's funny because I'm a big George Lazenby fan. And a lot of the talk is that he should have stayed on and done four or five other Bond movies. I think today, judging from where the series was going, that with Lazenby, I don't think they would have been as successful as the Roger Moore series. Something about Roger's movie, starting particularly with The Spy Who Loved Me, just brought that whole spy genre to tentpole status even more than it was. Well, let's talk about this last movie, No Time to Die, in a little bit more depth. I, just like you, am a huge Daniel Craig fan. I mean, we're talking about the two favorite bonds for me,

Sean Connery and Daniel Craig, and I think maybe for you as well from the sounds of it. Sure. But tell us a little bit about it. It had a little bit of a rocky start, didn't it, in terms of the directors and who was going to be the director? Well, you know, mounting a James Bond movie these days is an enormous effort. Danny Boyle comes on board and he's going full throttle to get the movie off the ground. And he's going full throttle to get the movie off the ground.

But there were some creative differences between what Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson and Daniel Craig wanted to do with this Bond. I gather from early on, they realized this was going to be Daniel's last movie. So they were thinking about some extreme plot angles that didn't mesh with Danny. So what started out as a beautiful relationship completely collapsed and forced the producers to redo the whole script and come up with a whole new storyline. It was a very rocky beginning. And then, of course, with the release campaign and the COVID, it became a bit of a nightmare. I saw this movie, interestingly, back at the Chinese, the same place I saw Goldfinger. So I was back there, let's see, 58 years later, and I was blown away by this movie. I thought it was big screen. It's why we go to the movies. This is designed for a big screen experience. And there's some great set pieces in this. I thought the opening was very unique, very different, and they have to be different. You know, I thought the performances were great. And this is definitely Daniel Craig's best performance as James Bond. It's just a perfect way for him to go out on. There's been a lot of pushback on this movie. There were a lot of people

who did not like the way it ended. I'm not going to spoil it for your listeners, but basically they took a risk. But Bond is bigger than one actor. We always knew that if Daniel Craig hangs it up, there's going to be a new Bond in the wings. I mean, it's just the way it is. I always say that there are three things certain in life, death, taxes, and James Bond movies. Well, to explain to those listeners who maybe haven't seen the movie or it's been a while, the opening scene you're talking about is the fact that they start out in Norway at that lake, right? And it's a very slow open compared to a lot of what we're used to. Also does not involve James Bond, which is unusual. Right.

Although not unprecedented, there have been other Bond movies that start out with a different character. You know, this director brought a great deal of style to the piece. And I like that. I like that it was different. And this is an emotional Bond movie. This is another thing that No Time to Die is very different from the other Bond movies. It brings in a lot more emotion than we're used to. I think the similarities we've discussed between, let's say, the Sean Connery and the Daniel Craig also kind of go to the fact that Daniel Craig, when he was first selected, there was a lot of disparaging comments in the press and people were not like, who is, you know, who is this guy? He's not very well known.

And yet the producers really felt that he would bring some of that, what you just mentioned, some of that deeper acting chops to the role and more of the emotion. And I think if you look back at his five films, you can see that. We referred to him disparagingly as that blonde Bond. Right. And, you know, nobody knew much about Daniel Craig. He had been in some films. You know, I think he was opposite Angelina Jolie in one of those Tomb Raider movies. He's in Munich. I think he's in Layer Kick. I hadn't seen any of those movies. So we went in completely unsure of this guy. Within five minutes after I saw him, I said, this guy is very cool. And that opening sequence on the construction cranes where he's chasing that

parkour expert, just jaw dropping action, physically pounding. I mean, this is the most physical James Bond ever. Daniel Craig. I mean, even Sean, who was very physical, didn't have to do the things that Daniel Craig did just in this first movie. Yeah. And I think that, you know, I'm a big fan of action films and of the films of Tom Cruise. And you have James Bond in a world where Mission Impossible is going on doing some amazing stunts. And you have to bring the level of some of the actual filming and some of the spectacle into the James Bond if you want to reach that audience. Because you don't go into a James Bond film if you're an action fan, not knowing about these other films. Oh, yeah. In fact, when the first Bond movies came out, there was no competition. Now there's

competition on every front. Not only Mission Impossible, you've got the Bourne films with Matt Damon. Even a lighthearted film series like The Kingsman has a certain level of violence, which is amazing. And then I also maintain that if you're going to do car chases, who are you competing with? Fast and the Furious. What they do with cars is almost supernatural. So one of my biggest complaints about Spectre, which I thought was just okay, not my favorite Daniel Craig by any means, the car chase was very low octane. It was Fast and the Furious, low octane. You need to really up it. And I thought they did a much better job with it on No Time to Die. Yeah, I really enjoyed No Time to Die. And I think that it's going to go down as one of the favorites, except for the ending, which we won't spoil. What was your

feeling about that ending? I was shocked. I was really shocked. I'm not used to that kind of ending. Then again, I was shocked about Felix Leiter earlier in the film. I kind of understood the ending, but, you know, it's just, it just, it was shocking. And a lot of people found it equally shocking. And some people were really pissed off about it, but that's just the way it is. You know, there's no worries. James Bond will return, as it says at the end of no time to die. Well, looking back at what, 25 films now we're celebrating the very first one at, at 60 years. The, the 25th one was just this last year.

What do you kind of, when you look back and then you think about, wow, that's a heck of a long time for a film franchise to go. What is the legacy of Bond? Where do you place it in film history? The James Bond series is the most successful film franchise in history. Perhaps the Star Wars movies have made a little bit more money. I haven't taken out my calculator and figured out what Star Wars or Avengers has done. These are all inflated numbers from the originals. But the Bond series has not only been the most successful series, but creatively, it's maintained a level of superior

achievement in film across all levels. I mean, not every James Bond movie is terrific. There are some clunkers, but even the clunkers have some beautiful elements to them. You know, one of my least favorite James Bond movies is Roger's last movie, A View to a Kill. But even in watching A View to a Kill, you've got the wonderful John Barry music. You've got the, you know, the cameo appearance from Patrick McNee. You've got some big action sequences. There's always something to cheer at a James Bond movie. And the level has always been maintained and you have to give the producers credit for keeping it that way. Well, to wrap up our discussion today, Stephen, I thought I'd throw a few rapid fire

questions at you. So I think this will be a lot of fun. I'm ready. Okay. What's the most popular Bond film with fans? I would say the most popular, it's generational. For the people who saw the early Bond films, it's Goldfinger. For the Roger Moore fans,

it's The Spy Who Loved Me. For the Timothy Dalton films, probably Living Daylights. For the Pierce Brosnan fans, probably Gold Daylights. For the Pierce Brosnan fans, probably GoldenEye. And for the Daniel Craig fans, certainly Casino Royale is heads above everything. What's the least popular Bond film? Well, I think from a money point of view, Honor Majesty Secret Service, which was Lazenby's only effort. But creatively, I think that's one of the best James Bond films. So you're not going to get any disparagement from me.

I would say that License to Kill, the second Timothy Dalton, is not favored very high because for my money, it plays like a two-hour Miami Vice episode. I didn't think that did very well. Also, the second Roger Moore, The Man with the Golden Gun, doesn't quite work for me. A little too fantastical. Not without great locations in John Barry Music, though. In terms of Daniel Craig's movies, I think Quantum of Solace and Spectre are a step down, whereas the others are much better. So then which Bond film has the highest box office? If I'm not mistaken, Skyfall was the first James Bond movie to score over a billion dollars worldwide. OK, so that that was the most successful.

Now, you can't cheat. You've got to pick just one. But what's your favorite Bond film and why? Ironically, it's the first movie I ever saw. Goldfinger has not paled since. But I tell people that if I'm listing all the Bond movies, neck and neck with Goldfinger is Casino Royale, the first Daniel Craig. Both movies to me just deliver it scene by scene by scene. So Goldfinger was always my favorite.

Now Casino Royale is also my favorite. See, you cheated again. I told you you can't cheat. You got to just pick one. But it's really hard, isn't it? It is hard. It is hard. So much time has passed that it's hard to just, you know, compare them.

But so I'm being a little hard on you, but we're just having fun here. So this next one, you might be tempted to cheat again, but I'm going to try to hold you to this. Who's your favorite Bond? Well, I would have to say Sean Connery because he introduced the character to me. But if we were not playing the rules game, Daniel would be right there. Right. And I think I already said that too, is that, and for me, I'm going to go with Daniel Craig. I know that sounds like what, but I do kind of enjoy this current one and Daniel, and then Sean's right there. And then who is the fan's favorite Bond?

That's a really good question. You know, again, I think it's generational. Okay. You know, if you grew up with Roger Moore, he's your favorite Bond. If you grew up with Pierce Brosnan, he's your favorite. And fans have totally embraced Daniel Craig. The Craig movies have done really well internationally. So I think currently, obviously, Craig is the guy. But I've asked this question of many people and generationally, they will say it's usually the Bond I grew up with. And I think that's a good sign, actually. That means that the Bond that's being presented

to the fans is appropriate for that generation, because you wouldn't want people now to still be saying, you know, I don't think. You wouldn't want people now to still be saying, you know, I don't think you wouldn't want Roger Moore to still be the favorite for this generation. Like you want the newest bond that brings something to the table that captures that generation's interest. Absolutely. And the world has changed dramatically since the 60s. I mean, we've gone through all sorts of changes. So I think Daniel Craig perfectly epitomized the bond that people wanted now. In this show, we talk about a lot of older films, but we also talk about current films because as a film lover, I love them all.

And I think you can do that. And with the beauty of home entertainment, you can own them all as well and rewatch them and you can compare and you can get all the behind the scenes and everything. And that's a lot of fun. And I, you know, it's fun to ask the questions, but I don't take it too seriously because I think, as you said, there's lots of good James Bond films, only a few clunkers maybe in there. And even that is so subjective because if you watched it when you were 15, it may still be one of your favorites. It's funny because the worst James Bond movie wasn't one of the official ones. In 1967, Charles K. Feldman put together the spoof of Casino Royale because like Thunderball, Casino Royale's rights were not available to Broccoli and Saltzman. So

they put together a movie with Woody Allen, Peter Sellers, David Niven, Orson Welles. It's a total mess. There's some good moments in it, but it's just not a James Bond movie. It's more like a farce. Right. Well, I did want to ask you one last rapid fire question. As an author, one last rapid fire question. As an author, what question do Bond fans ask you the most? The question that you asked generally asked me, what's my favorite Bond movie? Okay. That gets asked the most. Is there any question that's kind of more about behind the scenes or anything or any certain films that you get asked more about? Because, you know, in reference to the encyclopedia you put together. Well, they'll ask me one of the more interesting facts I've

learned over the years. And I have to say that I was interviewing Lorenzo Semple, who was, I think, uncredited was one of the writers. I may have been credited on Never Say Never Again. Okay. And it turned out that Lorenzo Semple, back in the 1950s, was very friendly with the actor Gregory Rattoff. Now, Gregory Rattoff was the first person to acquire the rights to a James Bond novel. He acquired Casino Royale. He's the one that Charles K. Feldman eventually purchased them from before he made the spoof. and eventually purchased them from before he made the spoof. Lorenzo told me that the thought at Fox with Gregory Rattoff producing was that James Bond would be a woman and they were going to make it a vehicle for Susan Hayward, the actress. Now, Susan Hayward had just won an Oscar for I Want to Live

playing a condemned prisoner. There was a certain edge to Susan Hayward. Through a series of events, we might not have ever seen James Bond again with a female in the role, although I won't disparage Susan Hayward. She's a great actress. But it is odd to think that James Bond actually started with a female in that idea. That's really interesting. I've never heard that before. email in that idea. That's really interesting. I've never heard that before. Well, as we wrap this up, man, there's so many films we haven't gotten into. And of course, there's no time for that in just a short podcast like this. But right now, after this last movie, it feels like the producers are kind of in pause mode as they look to the future. What do you see as the future for the Bond franchise? Well, the James Bond franchise is very much alive. As you know, Amazon purchased the MGM library,

so they own half of Bond now. And Amazon is going to try to really take advantage of owning that series. So Bond movies with deep pockets will keep coming at us. There's no financing problems with Amazon since they seem to own the world. My sense is that just like with Daniel Craig, they're going to probably hire somebody who isn't that well known. Some people are saying that the actor who plays Superman would be a great James Bond. Henry Cavill, you know, on the surface, he seems the right look, but I think they're going to try something a little bit different. Then now there's tremendous pressure on these producers because so much money is riding on

this actor. You know, they take that first step with the actor and they're hoping this will continue for four or five films. So there's tremendous pressure. I would not like to be in their shoes when trying to figure out who plays Bond next, because it is a challenge. But I think we're going to have Bond movies into the 22nd century. What obstacles do you think that are out there, though? You know, people say, oh, it's a changing world. And is James Bond still fit this world and things of that nature? How do you see all that? Well, there are people who feel that, you know, the idea of a secret agent representing his country and trying to save the world has been done enough already. It's time to move on. But I disagree. I

think the reason we've had Bond all of these years is we still need the tip of the spear. We need that guy. Uh, the idea of the hero in cinema isn't going away. We still need that guy. We love heroes, right? I mean, look at all the, I mean, we talked earlier about born and mission impossible, but then you've got, you've got more series that are competitive with bond. You've got the, um, the Keanu Reeves character. What are those films called? The Wick movies. Yeah, the John Wick movies. Those are competitive with Bond. You've got so many characters who are heroic that people love to follow a hero. They've never taken the character too far. He's always a flesh and blood secret agent. So I think that helps me believe that we'll always have James Bond movies because we need that guy. To add on to that, I think that

the Daniel Craig transitional movies kind of brought it into the modern era. I mean, he fell in love and, you know, he became more of a current, I think, character and three dimensional character. Oh, yeah. And look what the type of villains they're fighting. They're all involved with international terrorism. Right. That seems to be our number one fear in terms of the world plight. So he's the tip of the spear at a time when we're dealing with real issues and they have been reflected in the Bonds. Well, I know when they come out with the next Bond movie, whoever it is, I will be there, just like I have been ever since my adult life. And I could make that choice on my own to see

the movie, usually opening weekend or opening week. And I love to see the movies on the IMAX. I love to see them on the big screen because of the spectacle. So I'm really looking forward to this. And it'll be fun to kind of follow along and see the developments. Sure. No, absolutely. And it's just fun following the series. And I've always had fun writing the books. Yeah. Well, then you'll have to do another update, of course, to your book. But for fans right now of Bond, your book is completely up to date. It's got great photos. Where can people kind of purchase the book and learn a little bit more about you? And I didn't mention yet that you have your own podcast, which is terrific podcast where you

interview actors and people who work in the industry as well. How can people follow you and learn more about what you're up to? Well, I have a website. It's stephenjrubin.com, J-A-Y spelled out. I do a classic film review every Saturday on Facebook and LinkedIn and Instagram. I have a podcast called Stephen J. Rubin's Saturday Night at the Movies. We're on the Amazon, Apple, and Spotify platforms. Like you said, we interview people behind the scenes. We haven't done a lot of Bond coverage yet, although I plan on doing that eventually. Yeah. Lucky for me, Stephen. See, you left that open for me to invite you on as a guest.

Sure, sure. No, I'm happy to be here. But we've had guests. I had Deborah Padgett on, who was in the original 1956 The Ten Commandments. I recently had Jimmy Hunt, who was in the original Invaders from Mars. I've had Paul Anka talking about a little B-movie he did called Look in Any Window. I have all sorts of fun guests. I'm having a ball with this. ball with this. And yeah, no, Facebook is a play. I have three pages on Facebook. I have the James Bond movie encyclopedia page on Facebook, and then I have my own Steven J. Rubin page. And then I have Steven J. Rubin Saturday night, the movie. So there's all sorts of ways of keeping in touch with me. Well, Steven, this was a lot of fun. I love talking James Bond with somebody who is as knowledgeable as you, especially. Well, thank you, Tim. I appreciate it. It's always fun to talk about Bond because Bond is always there. It's, you know, it's like the wind and the rain. Although I'm in Southern California, we don't get much.

We do get James Bond. Absolutely. Thanks so much. For those of you interested in learning more about the James Bond films and books we discussed today, there are links in the podcast show notes and on our website at www.theextras.tv. I'll also have links to Steve and Jay Rubin's websites and social media, so be sure and check those out. If this is the first episode of The Extras you've listened to and you enjoyed it, please think about following the show at your favorite podcast provider. Some upcoming episodes that you might enjoy are our visit with classic horror expert Tom Weaver to talk about the 4K release of Universal's Icons of Horror Vol. 2. We also have The Usual Suspects releasing on 4K, and in November,

Casablanca releasing on 4K. If you're on social media media be sure and follow the show on facebook or twitter at the extras tv or instagram at the extras dot tv to stay up to date on our upcoming guests and to be part of our community and for our long-term listeners don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review at itunes spotify or your favorite podcast provider until next time you've been listening to tim millard. Stay slightly obsessed. The Extras is a production of Otaku Media, producers of podcasts, behind the scenes extras, and media that connects creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals at www.otakumedia.tv or look for the link in the show notes.