The Extras - Editing Supernatural: The Final Season

Episode Date: June 3, 2021

In this podcast, editors Don Koch, Jimmy Pickel, and John Fitzpatrick share how they began their careers in post-production.  And then they take us on an informative journey of the typical editorial process on an episode of Supernatural.  Interspersed in the discussion, we revisit some of the memorable extras we worked on together, including the hilarious gag reels.  Finally, they take us behind the scenes of the emotional 15th and final season and the impact of the pandemic on the editing of the last three episodes.  Along the way, they discuss the SPN production family that was based in Burbank, and what they will miss most about the ending of this iconic genre show. Otaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers.  Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals.  www.otakumedia.tvThe Sitcom StudyWelcome to the Sitcom Study, where we contemplate the TV shows we grew up with and...Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify The Extras Facebook pageThe Extras Twitter Warner Archive & Warner Bros Catalog GroupOtaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals. www.otakumedia.tv

Hi, I'm film historian and author John Fricke. I've written books about Judy Garland and the Wizard of Oz movie, and you're listening to The Extras. Hello and welcome to The Extras, where we are slightly obsessed about taking you behind the scenes of your favorite TV shows, movies, and animation, and their release on digital DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K, or your favorite streaming site. I'm Tim Millard, your host, and today I have three very special guests with me, who are all editors on Supernatural for its 15th and final season. I've had the privilege of knowing these guys from my work on the behind-the-scenes extras

for Supernatural over the last 13 years, and I think we've interviewed or at least consulted with all of you at some point on an episode. Jimmy Pickle, Don Cook, and John Fitzpatrick, welcome to The Extras. Hi, how are you doing? Hey, good to be here. So now normally I would provide a brief introduction to my guests. But guys, when I went to IMDb, it was woefully behind on your credits. So I'm going to let each of you introduce yourself and give us a little background on how you got into film and television post-production and eventually ended up on Supernatural. Let's start with you, Jimmy. I got started with Fitz, actually.

That man, that guy taught me a lot. John Fitzpatrick. We started working together on season two of The Apprentice, I think. Yeah, I think it was season two. I was a PA and I wanted to learn how to see. I saw I just got done with my master's, wanted to be a college professor, quickly realized that was a very hard thing to do in Southern California and took a job as a PA on a show called The Contender.

And then they were like, you want to go work on the show called The Apprentice? Long story short, saw the avids, realized they're just telling a story with pictures and I wanted to do it. I wanted to learn how to become an editor. So I stayed at night and Mr. Fitzpatrick here taught me stuff. I was there just telling a story with pictures and I wanted to do it. I wanted to learn how to become an editor. So I stayed at night and Mr. Fitzpatrick here taught me stuff. And then the next year I became a digitizer and went from there. And how about you, Don?

Yeah, go ahead. How did you get into the biz? For me, basically, it's kind of been a family business. My grandmother on my mom's side and my grandfather were both dancers and were in Vaudeville. And my grandmother was Jeanette McDonald's dance double. And my grandfather taught Clark Gable how to tap dance. So it's kind of been a family business. He went, my grandfather, George King, went on to be a producer on the Beverly Hillbillies and Green Acres and stuff like that. And then my dad ended up, when he married my mom, needed a job.

So my grandfather got him a job starting off being an assistant editor on Green Acres, I think. And so my dad kind of moved his way up the ladder, became a, you know, editor and then a director and producer. So it kind of was a natural thing for me, studied film in college at San Diego State, basically been, you know, my entire kind of life building up to that point. So then ended up being, I started doing a lot of PA jobs, that type of stuff. Uh, then my first, uh, job in post-production and editorial was, was I was an apprentice on a movie of the week called dead by sunset. And then after that, just kind of, you know, worked my way up the ladder there and worked on all sorts of shows and stuff like that. And the most, I say the show that people probably know the most that

I worked on, I was on Sabrina, the teenage Witch for five years and then, you know, various pilots and stuff like that. And then ended up on Supernatural. John, we started working together when you edited some of our behind the scenes documentaries for Supernatural. But take us back to, you know, before that, how you got started in post-production. Yeah, ironically. And thank you, Jimmy. That was very nice of you to say about me teaching you everything, but that's, that's what Jimmy doesn't know is that was about five

minutes after I already learned. So, uh, that's, I got started in post-production on the apprentice season two. I ended up in post-production as out of necessity. I was doing a lot of independent films. I always wanted to be a director when I first moved here. And that's kind of the typical story, I guess, for everybody is they all want to be a director. But in this case, I did. And I had made all these films and I could never get anybody to edit them. So nobody, because nobody wants to do that, right? It's terrible. It's awful, especially when somebody is just learning. So I realized I needed to do it myself and this, I could get a job learning it and having access to the equipment. So, uh, on the,

my friend got me a job on the apprentice and I started doing like Jimmy said, just digitizing and logging the footage and ended up moving into editing about a year after that. So we started in the same spot. And then for several years after that, I did a lot of reality shows. Didn't really get into script until much later. By way of reality and other promos I had met and doing some documentaries, I had met your coworker, Tim, Jeff, and Alex. And they started hiring me in between my, my reality shows to do stuff over the summer on their projects. And that's how I ended up with you guys. And then I kind of liked doing it and it was, it was fun. They're a good group of people. So I kind of moved away from reality and just kept doing that for several years. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. Well, then you

edited the, um, the mockumentary behind the scenes of Supernatural, a fan's perspective on the season nine home entertainment release. Talk about working with Phil on that extra and what that led to. Oh, yeah. Well, I think that's where the beginnings of it were. Jimmy moved over to Supernatural, ironically, after we parted ways. And he'd always been trying to get me over there. He'd call me every now and again and see if I wanted to be his assistant. And I was always so busy. I couldn't and things like that. And then this project came up where I was working with Misha because he directed the piece and

cutting it. And then we moved that project for about a week over to the supernatural offices. And that's where I got a lot of one-on-one time with Phil. So the synergy of it was when a new spot opened, I'd been there, done that. Jimmy had been on the show and really championing me getting over there. And that just started sort of seemed like the next logical step. So, but I started as Jimmy's assistant and that's how I moved in there. And I decided, sure, I'll do it. Cause I really enjoyed working with Phil and I wanted to work with Jimmy again, and I really loved the show. So that one piece kind of set the stage for it making a lot of sense. And it wasn't that hard of a sell for, for Jimmy to say,

I think this guy ought to come over here. Just a side note for all you Supernatural fans out there. If you have not seen this mockumentary behind the scenes of Supernatural fans perspective, you have to see it. It's just one of the best extras we put out over the years. And as you mentioned, John, credit goes to Misha for pulling that together and Todd Ehrenhauer and Phil

for helping us execute that extra. It's available in all season nine formats and is also part of the Supernatural complete box set release. So I think fans are probably curious to hear how the Supernatural post-production team worked on a weekly basis. Did you each get an episode? How did the team work together?

Don? Basically, well, there's three of us, right? So we kind of hopscotched episodes. And basically, I don't know, we pretty much were pretty autonomous. I mean, at least I was. I mean, for editors, especially now with like with the Avid and stuff, and you really don't work every day with your assistant, your assistant kind of upload your dailies for you and then you cut them. So basically I just come into work and we had dailies and you know,

it's your, your week for your show. You got dailies, you just dive in and keep working, you know, and then sometimes we'll cross over, but usually we see each other in the kitchen and talk to, you know, talk to each other that way. But when you're in dailies, you're on your own pretty much until your cuts, you know, do. So that's pretty much how, at least for me, that's for sure. You have to guys, you have anything else to add on that? I'll give you my workflow. So, uh, I w I wouldn't read a script until it was like pretty well near enough final draft of it. And I would get my script. I would try and read it twice and just think about and also then realize who my director is.

That was kind of important to me, too. Like, who's directing this? Do I know the person? Have we worked together? And then, yeah, you dive into dailies and you just go. It's go time. And that's kind of the busy time. Dawn's absolutely right.

Your assistant. I mean, you're working together. Everyone has a different relationship with their assistant. I don't want to speak for either of the other two guys, but I was big on doing my own audio. I know Fitz liked to do his own music. I just spoke to him. I said I wasn't. So my assistant did way more music and sound effects, helped me out with that,

while I would say Fitz's assistant probably helped him out more with the audio, which is what I like to do. So it's just, it's how, you know, and when I worked for Don, it was, I did audio and sound effects. I think I did 10 visual effects for you too, right? I mean, we tried to. Yeah, yeah, I think so. It's pretty much, yeah, because that's the way when I worked,

when Bruce ended up being my assistant after Jimmy got bumped up. Yeah, I was Don's assistant, everybody. There's a total incestuous thing going on in this. Seriously. Yeah. It's a whole family thing here. Yeah, they... That's... Jimmy's right. I mean, for me, that's what I do too. Yeah. Pretty much. I'm worried about cutting picture and fixing that the actual production audio tracks, that type of stuff. But I leave, leave the, yeah. Temp visual effects, temp sound effects. And I did my own music. I just, I just felt like, you know, that's what I like to do. But then, yeah,

everybody has a different relationship with their assistants. We can always count on Fitz to bring in every freaking new movie there was and new sound effect. Sound effect. Yeah. And Frank's film, none of us have heard of, and he would be bringing in the music for that. But yeah, we always had good music.

So what was like a typical episode cycle for you? Like, was it, you know, the number of days and when would you also kind of start the work? Like day one of the dailies? Go ahead. go fits oh oh yeah they shoot for eight days so the the general schedule was your your day for day with them on with camera until the end and then you get three to four extra days to do your final pass and get it all knocked into shape before you release to the director so about about give or take a day or two 12 days to turn the cut around and then uh then it goes into director for four and then it goes into producers for another three or four depending on how many people take a pass at it sometimes they'd all look at it at once sometimes they'd

each take an individual one if they were all spread out in canada or, because we had a lot of producers that also directed. So if they were out of town, they might each take a separate one. But if they were all together, they might come in and watch it at the same time. So just that part depended on availability and how they wanted to do it. And then... So many factors, right? It's also time of year. You build a pattern to your show of these weeks, and then you gobble them up until you get to christmas so like your schedule in november is completely different than your schedule in like july and i guess is and so yeah you're and like they said you're kind of

alone you're you're just working on your thing doing doing your stuff and but we would collaborate a little bit like if you're ever jimmy would come into my bay can i show you something i'm worrying i'm trying to figure this out do you buy this don would kind of do the same thing or i'd go in there there's a lot jimmy cut fight scenes really well so i'd watch his fights sometimes and look for little tips and tricks i could use or and don always did the boys talking at the end and the drama really really well no seriously so i would just i just when i got somewhere i'd remind myself i'm gonna i don't want to dawn scene about the the boys having a moment because he'd really do it really well so i would remind me of what what it's about sometimes you know this shows about family and he'd really he'd hit it so i'd go okay i should go remind myself because just randomly got stuck

with a lot of action-driven episodes um sometimes it would be easy to forget the heart. So I'd always have to go look and see what some of the heart would be. Remind myself, remind myself. You remember, what was the one you cut for show author? It had the, it was like the UFC fight.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Uh, that was 10 episode 10 season 15. So I went into Fitz's Bay after that fight, or after that. I watched the cut, and I told him I was pissed off at him because it was so good that, like, now I felt like I had to up him, like I had to one-up him because it was really well done.

So we would always go, like, boss on each other like that or, you know, compliment each other exactly what Fitz said. He'd show each other stuff. I'd talk to Don. Don would talk to me, whatever. Yeah. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Hi, this is Tim Millard, host of the Extras podcast. And I wanted to let you know that we have a new private Facebook group for fans of the Warner Archive and Warner Brothers catalog physical media releases. So if that interests you,

you can find the link on our Facebook page or look for the link in the podcast show notes. But it moved pretty fast. It was pretty lightning fast. I mean, really, when I now just hearing me outline it, that's, it's a fast schedule. I mean, you're going. Especially too, because the cuts that we have to turn over right you know has temp music temp visual effects temp sound effects it's all got to be mixed I mean and the thing you know and when you're when you're putting your cut together I mean that's your work right so you you want it to be perfect so you're you're in that mode where it's every level's got to be perfect you got to pull out you know all the you want it to be like almost you feel be aired, you know, not really, but that's what you have in mind. You're like, man, you know, I really want this thing to be mixed properly. I want visual effects,

all that stuff. You want it perfect. Cause I mean, I obviously you're going to get tons of notes anyways from everybody, but you're, I mean, for at least for me and my goal is like, you know, I want as minimal notes as possible or, or for me too, I always used to, when I was cutting stuff, I could hear Phil's voice in my head, you know, when I'm cutting stuff, you know, going, okay, I know he's going to say this here. So I gotta, I'm going to fix this now. I gotta do this. You know what I mean? You can just, you can, you can hear it. So yeah, I mean the product we turn over, you know, I mean, you're trying to make it as close to perfect as possible. And the game, it kept going up and up and up. Like it never stopped.

Like when I first, when I was assisting Don, when we did Demon Eyes, you just did a paint effect on it. By the time we got to Fitz and Marty, they were using after effects. And like, I mean, it looked professionally done. True. Right. It's just everyone kept like one up in each other. And then once that bar was set, it's like, okay, everybody's got to do it this way now. You know, I feel like we never like, we were always at each other. And then once that bar was set, it's like, okay, everybody's got to do it this way now. You know,

I feel like we never like we were always at each other kind of. I remember coming up on the seventh floor and you guys, your offices were like kind of in that dark little area. You each had like across the hall from each other, next to each other. Would you be in there at the same time or would, you know, so that you could do what you're talking about, talk to each other or was that only some of the time? It just be in passing. Yeah. But we were all there at the same time. You're there, you're there every day, each day working on some facet or another of what your job is. So you're all, you're at the office every day. It's

not a, it's not this show's light. So you're not there that day. You're there. They'll figure out something for you to do. The writers would all kind of go home and write or whatever. You guys were close in contact, so you could collaborate. Kind of, yeah. Make no mistake about it. When you become an editor, you want to lock yourself in a dark room. Listen, kids at home, if you want to become an editor and you like to live in a dark room and look at pictures all day and yell at things.

Windowless. Windowless room. And yell at actors for what they're doing right or wrong. Even though they can't respond to you, then you become an editor. Yeah. You're in your own room for a large portion of the day. And then you might come out for a break. The morning routine was usually where we saw each other the most.

It would be like I'd walk in, Jimmy'd walk in and bruce and my assistant would be there and then you would just kind of hang out in the bullpen area and then don would come sit down by the printer and have a coffee and then and that's where if we all socialize that's where it kind of happened and then around as soon as nine o'clock hit break everybody goes goes to their database. And that was that. So then once the directors saw the cut, then it would go to Bob or Phil when he was there. They would review and give the producers notes. Yeah. It goes Phil or John Showalter. And then it would go Bob and then Andrew and then Bob Andrew.

Right. I guess you'd say that. Did you guys get, did you deal with network notes or studio notes as well? Who's the studio? After all that. So you'd release to your director. Your director would work with you. If your director was Phil or Bob, you got a two-for-one.

So they would do both their passes at the same time. And then it would go away so to the to andrew so how it worked was phil bob andrew then studio and you would do the notes all the notes for all those people and then didn't you guys had a like a was it a spotting session or would everybody would come in before you went to online? Oh yeah. I mean, that's when everything's locked. Basically, once you get past studio and network notes, you're pretty much locked. Your, your picture's locked. So you're going to, you go into the spotting session with your, all your sound guys. And then you, you watch the show,

you watch a show with Bob, Phil, or John Showalter, depending on the, you know, the season and that type of stuff. And you all hang out and just watch the show. And Bob, Phil, or John Showalter, depending on the season and that type of stuff. And you all hang out and just watch the show. And Bob, Phil, and John would say, okay, sound, this is what we want to do here. Music, this is what we want to do here. You go, okay, the temp music's good. This is the type of tone you want. Or no, we don't want music here. It's basically, it's all audio, that type of stuff. It's all the audio portion of it. But everybody's there just to make sure we ask questions and that type of stuff and then once that's done it goes off to our sound guys at warner brothers and the composer does his thing and then they all kind of meet up for the mix

on the uh on the stage you know i think it's usually about well depending on the schedule but you know at least a week or so after that so and then they do their thing and they mix for like what two three days something like that And then everybody comes in after the audio is done, the mix, and we all, all watch the playback and then give notes on that. And then basically that's, and they do fixes and then there you go. That's, you know, a show in about a month. So meanwhile, like how many, if that was going on, you probably were on another episode maybe by that time that you're kind of juggling different episodes in different stages. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for, at least for me, like once pretty much once it got past the

spot, you're usually your next day typically was dailies on the next show. So you're, you know, once, once it's past the spot and audio is doing their work, you're on your next show. And then depending on how busy you were, you would go to the stage once they were doing the playback and watch the episode playback to make sure they didn't miss anything either. You know, some sort of dialogue that you put in the tracks that kind of got dropped or something like that. But yeah, once you're done with a spot, you're on to their next episode and you're going in dailies. I know this stuff is like standard for you, but I think for the fans, it's pretty interesting to kind of hear how that process works. And I know that when we did some behind the scenes stuff, we went to a spotting session, I think, because we were doing a piece on, I don't remember which one, maybe it was on the composers. But we also went to the mix and stuff like that, too.

And it was all interesting, just the different stages of, of the editorial process. Here's some, I think it's some stuff to fans. I want to hear about the spotting session. Um, it can be a humbling experience. I think you've now cut this show. Uh, it's gone through Phil, it's gone through Bob, it's gone through the studio. It's gone through the network. You, you could literally, I could recite the show by the time you're done. You could say every line in it. You've seen it so many times. And then you get in that spotting session and they're like, nope, music's all wrong here. And you're like, you've listened to this music for like four weeks now. So I would always tell my assistant, because they did a lot of my music, like, listen,

you just got to let it go off your shoulder. Like, this is just, they just want to get it right. But you could have things in there that you thought sounded great. And then at that spotting session, all of a sudden they're like, nope, that doesn't sound right. Or it's not, it's not coming in at the right time or it needs to go down more or it needs to start earlier or whatever it is. So then what do you do? Well, that's for the composers. Like we're just making a roadmap for them. Like we're, we're putting in music that we could never get. I mean, we're putting in name a movie and we're putting in score from that movie, which we obviously couldn't buy.

So it's just a roadmap for the composer to be like, OK, but they would, you know, then there's a discussion. Did they start the music in the right spot? Did the editor and assistant start in the right spot? And that can be a humbling thing when it's like, no, you didn't start in the right spot. Well, it's one of those things that i think too is it's to be especially be an editor you can't take notes personally no you know it's it's your interpretation of the show especially even in your individual first cut right you know you're going to get loaded up with notes you think you're cutting the show the way you think the show should be right and you're turning

it over going you know oh this thing that you know it's not perfect but you're, your goal is to get as little notes as possible, but everybody's got a different interpretation. So yeah, if you want to want to be an editor, you cannot take notes from anybody personally. It's just, that's their, that's their vision. And then once your cuts delivered, at least for me, my job is to execute their notes. And if they ask me for my opinion, I'll give it. But, you know, from there on out, it's I'm there to, you know,

to shape the show, whatever, whatever notes I get from them. Don's Mr. Cool. I never thought that way. I was just like, how could you note this? It's beautiful. It's perfect. I mean, maybe it's a little bit over,

but it's good. I mean, yeah it's a little bit over, but it's, it's good. I mean, yeah, yeah. Anyway, a couple other, a couple other questions I think might be interesting. Usually you had, you had like a recap or something, but is that something that somebody else did or the assistants or were you guys involved in, in those recaps? Good. Well, I think the, well, we all started, we were, we were all once assistants on the show, right? I was an assistant for season four through six before I got moved up. And I think cutting the recaps, the assistants cut them. And I think it's a really good experience to cut the recaps because it's kind of like

a mini episode. It was also a trial too kind of thing where you get the producers to sit behind you and they get to watch your cut and give you notes. That's another one thing about editing too that's really nerve wracking is when you're in the chair and you're running your cut and all the producers are sitting behind you, where everything's gotta work out.

So I think that was, I mean, for me, it was a really good experience cutting those recaps because it really prepares you for all aspects of editing. It's just in a short span, you know, a two minute span. But I think it really helped. Any unique challenges on this show that if you saw it coming in your episode, you're like, oh, no. That was one of the great things about Supernatural was you were, you really weren't, you were surprised constantly. It wasn't like you were cutting the same show over and over. Certain scenes, yes, you know,

you've had, you can cut the same, you know, scene in different episodes over and over, but in general, you never know what you're going to get. So there's, you know, there's comedy, there's drama, there's action, there's visual effects, there's all that stuff. In the show, there's action, there's visual effects, there's all that stuff there in the show. It's such a wide range of genres in one show. So every, I mean, I ended up cutting like 69 episodes of supernatural. So it's like, but they're all different and they're all, yeah, there's certain themes that are the same, but you never know what you're going to get. So it kind of kept you on your toes. So you never really bored with cutting stuff. Any favorite episodes that you guys have that, you know, looking back now? For me, for sure. I think that the episode baby, that was, I mean, it was way different.

Thomas Wright directed it and did a really great job with it, but it was so unorthodox and it was so, so different. You talk about different episode. That was, that episode definitely was, was a favorite because it was so out of the norm where it just was, you know, every cut, every day of dailies was just completely different. You know, like, how am I going to do this? But Tom Wright really did a great job with setting it up. So that was, that was one that definitely stuck out for me. And, oh, and Scooby natural. That was fun. Cutting the, the supernatural Scooby-Doo episode. That was fun too. On the other end. So just for the listeners who maybe don't know baby and supernatural, but that, that was shot from the perspective of the car. Was it not? Everything

was right. And in the car, it was all interior. It was all, yeah, basically inside the car. And it was the car's perspective of Sam and Dean's life, pretty much. And then Scooby Natural. I love that episode as well, because I actually worked on the Scooby franchise for home entertainment. So it was like a blend for me of two of my favorites. You know, the animation mixed with Supernatural. That one was really different because the guys get kind of sucked into the animated show and they make characters for them. So that was a really, really interesting episode for those who are not familiar with it. How about you, Jimmy? Uh, I'd have to say, uh, regarding Dean with, uh, John Badham,

that was probably, that was up there for me. I remember watching and going, wow, this is going to be really good. He got amazing performances out of Jensen. I mean, it was so like simply done, but it was really good. Just the shot of Jensen in the mirror where he's losing his mind and he starts crying. And that was, I was like, wow, it was really fun to cut that. Cause I just let it roll. Oh man, that's putting me on the spot. I guess I'm weird. So I'm sort of a dork. It was really, it's hard for me to figure out one singular one, just because like Don was saying, so many of them had different challenges. I had favorite parts of, of many, I think is the best way to describe it.

You know, there was challenges in some episodes that I did with Spate where we, it was more like a Tarantino movie so it was cut all differently and out of order and the music was different so it was really challenging so but so that became fun there was a one about like a kind of like a haunted house with this demon Moloch living in it that Phil did that we we just we let it be a more of like a horror movie and I know that sounds funny but the newer horror movies where you let us sit for a long time or, and we're just listening and feeling and tensions building because you're not cutting and challenging ourselves to really push the envelope there.

That was fun. Bob Singer, his episodes were I always enjoyed parts of them because he was such an elegant shooter that you, you felt you were given the command of how to make the scene happen because it wasn't all the stuff it was like there's this and this and this and now you get to pick how the impact's going to be so there was an elegance and simplicity to it that was just that made you feel like you were the craftsman doing it and so there are so many so it's really hard for me to nail one.

So if I'm going to be put to having to figure out one, boy, I'd say. Your episode. No, but I didn't cut my own episode. No, I'd say, I'd say if I really had to really like go back through all of it, my top, man so hard like i have they all blend together yeah the one that sticks out the two two experiences that stick out the most that are that would that were like okay wow because for multiple multiple reasons i guess would be uh the bad place that's setting up wayward sisters and then i really enjoyed doing the

one that jimmy talked about uh i'm trying to remember what it was called but it was where sam and dean are our hero's journey they're not heroes anymore they they they fought their ordinary lives but i wouldn't say that that's a favorite like because it's a quintessential thing in the whole grand scope of so many amazing episodes. Just for me personally, they were, they were challenging, hard. There was lots of fun to be had. And I think there was a lot of opportunity to think differently. So it let me exercise different muscles.

So it became, it became indelibly marked in my mind. You just referenced, you know, directing. I don't know. Was that something you always wanted to do? And then who did cut your episode? Okay. Yeah. It's something I always, I've always wanted to do. It's I, I said earlier, I've always wanted to be a director. So that was a sort of the beginning of a, of a new journey that we'll see where if it gets to keep going, but, and my assistant Marty cut that one. He's been an editor in reality shows and he came on board as my assistant

and he'd, he'd cut a couple of scenes on some other shows with his other editor. And so he had the ability to do it. And I said, well, give him a shot to do it and so he ended up cutting my episode so we kept it in the family again like uh i was saying it just it's a i mean they joke about the spn family but it really is it's like no don't you know we'll just keep it here and the trust is there and we'll just do it and it's just sort of a pay it forward in a way and keeping it in the family because jimmy brought me into the show

and vouched for me and then uh phil and bob were instrumental and and allow getting me to get direct so they they believed in me and so then i believed in marty and i said hey you should take you should take a shot here because i'm gonna pat myself on the back during this so i kept offering Fitzy the job. I was like, dude, come over here and assistant, you know, being assistant. I'm telling you, half these directors I know were editors at a certain point. You could become a director. Just get over here.

And he kept saying no because he wanted to keep directing his films, which oddly enough was the right choice up until a certain point. So he kept directing his own films, directing his own films. And he was working with Jeff and it allowed him to have the, was it Jeff and who else? Jeff and Alex. It allowed him to, you know, have the time to do his side projects and blah, blah, blah. So I kept bugging him. Every time I'd have an opening, I'd call Fitz first and he turned me down twice. And then finally on the third one,

I think he was like, it was just perfect timing because he had done enough films now that it was, he could say yes to the job. I mean, what did you, he were assistant for me for six months and then Nicole left, right? Is that when Nicole left? Yeah. Yeah. So Nicole leaves, he gets bumped up to editor and within like the next year, you know, and I, and then I would, you know, Fitz was very,

very good about like not bringing up his directing. And I was like, Oh, let me just handle this. So anytime Phil was around, I'm like, Hey, did you see this? Did you see his, uh, the, the, you know, the video he made or, uh, it would be on YouTube or, you know, wherever your channel fits. I think – Yeah, YouTube. I think the one – Well, you also cut one of my episodes.

I did cut one. I cut Nightmare. Online stuff and showed it to Phil and all of that. So it was always like show and Phil stuff. And I think – I swear the one that got him to bite and really consider it was the the ship one you did where the the ship sinks the elevator yeah the elevator no i you know i think you're probably right once they saw that i think they took you very seriously yeah no jimmy was very good at that i'm not very good at doing showing my own stuff so jimmy was always very good about making sure everybody could see it

it's good he's the same age as me i'm calling him a kid yeah he's watching this but yeah so that's again and that's the spn family thing i mean well yeah we challenged each other and we did these fun things there was always that there was always a support network like that marty got his job. One thing you guys keep mentioning is, you know, kind of like how well you've worked together as a team and how long, what, I mean, what are some of the kind of the benefits or unique elements of when you do work on a show for so long? My turn. I mean, for me, I think the more, the more you end up working, like the longer you work, the more the more you end up working like the longer you work the more comfortable i think you get and that for me it was i think instead of like people uh i was more comfortable doing like

especially my own cut the editor's cut like people wouldn't bother you they knew that you could do the job so they weren't coming in every day you know oh did you know how's this going well let me see this you know you kind of i guess once they trust you to do your own cut, then they don't bother you as much. And you just do your own thing. I think, you know, I guess it's not being micromanaged, you know, that type of thing. It's also too, I think you, you realize if you work with people for so long, you know, that they can do their job. So when you hand off a certain thing, you know, that that's going to get done. It's not going to get fall through the cracks or it's going to get done properly or that type of thing. you know, that that's going to get done. It's not going to get fall through the cracks or it's going to get done properly or that type of thing. You know, it's, it's once you, so you trust everybody to do their job that I think that's the biggest thing for me. So you don't have to worry

about, you know, your assistant, like, Oh my gosh, you can't do this or, or whatever, you know, you know, it's going to get done and it it's off your plate. And then you can concentrate on the stuff you need to concentrate on. So, and it is like Fitz was saying, it truly was, I mean, a family. I mean, it's, you always think like when I was on Sabrina, the teenage witch, I'm like, I'm never going to get as good a job, like working conditions, you know, again, and then I ended up on Supernatural for 11 years and it was awesome. I mean, the people that we worked with, the, you know, all these guys, everybody else, it truly was like, you know, you really. We all got along really, really well. And everybody, if people left to move on to different shows or stuff like that,

the people that came in were kind of like the same type of, I don't know, personality or something. And we all pretty much got along. It was really great. I mean, for me, I had a couple of... Well, a year or so where I went through some health issues, and everybody was really supportive. PJ was great. Phil was great. Everybody that they, you know, if I needed help, Fitz was great. You know, and Jimmy was great too. It was like,

it was me. No, I'm saving the best for last, but you know, well, and Bruce and everybody, I mean, it's like, I could name everybody, you know, it's, it's one of those things where any other show you, you'd be worried about what's going to happen. But I, you know, it was just, I, it's hard to explain, but it definitely was, I mean, the best working conditions that I've had. And it was 11 years of it was awesome. You know, I loved about leaving, but what kept me there was because, and when I say that, let me, let me clear up something for the fans. As an editor, sometimes it's good to have a lot of different credits. And this was really our first, my first credit as an editor. So you want to get that second and third credit. It's very important because apparently nine years on one show isn't as good as two years on four shows or whatever the math is. But the reason I never left was it was Phil and Bob. I mean, that was, what do you think? 50, 60 years of television experience between the two of them. And I never felt like I wasn't learning something. And even when John came in, I still didn't feel like I wasn't learning something from these guys and all the directors that came in and that's what kept me there it was just endless television knowledge and cool stories too bob had school yes the ultimate stories tellers bob by the end i heard most of them i was on the second or third run of them but uh i still loved

them yeah no the building on what jimmy said that's, that's absolutely right. It's part of the environment that was created by Phil and Bob and various showrunners, Andrew, Jeremy, going back. And then also, you know, later John Showalter was, it was a creative safe space. They were really good at their jobs and they knew television. really good at their jobs and they knew television and in knowing that they knew to just to let you have some fun once in a while too with with the sequence or with what your style is or doing something like that to just keep the show fresh and interesting and that's that kind of thing is so rare i think they just they were really they were really good creative champions they were creative in their own ways too. They, I mean, so building on that same thing, you'd show something and then it might get

them excited and then they'd figure out a way to make it better. You know, Phil had a number of ways he could amp something up when he'd be in there or Bob would find the simplest thing. He could just watch the thing. It was like magic. He'd go, all right, right there and there, take it out. Do you remember, we'd be in a room all like scratching our heads and he'd go all right right there and there take it out do you remember we'd be in a room all like scratching our heads and he'd walk in and watch it one time give you the exact answer

yeah and then you'd go and you'd do it and then it'd be like jesus christ yeah i mean it was like it was like obi-wan yeah it was like it was like obi-wan you know you go man you know and then and then he just kind of he'd give a little smile like he knew. And then he'd be like, all right, see you later. That was that. It was great. You know, it was great. That's awesome. Uh, Don, we, we interviewed you for the, um, for an extra we did on the episode bitten in season eight. That was a really unique episode to edit. And I thought it was worthy of maybe spending a few minutes talking about, maybe you can just talk about that challenge. That was another Tom, right? Episode. He did baby,

but he also did bitten too. And I mean, for me, the thing that I think the hardest thing about that being like a found footage show was you you're going against like everything you normally do every day trying to make like cut seamless and and not noticeable and this is you're trying it's a whole different genre where you know you're trying to actually make it not professional you know type of thing where you're you know you're trying to make it more like a like a home movie or student film or that type of thing. You're fighting everything you do every day normally. You're trying to make it look jagged and stuff like that. But I think that was the hardest thing about it was that. And then also

kind of like the temp sound design and stuff. The kids are in college. So, you know, what about let's put, you know, music in the upstairs apartment above them. All you hear is bass, you know, because it's college, right? There's stereos going 24 seven. So I think that's, that was the hardest thing was to, to go against everything you normally do or, you know, or train to do and make it look seamless. You actually tried to make it look rough. John, you have a link to that piece, I think, because you actually edited the extra. Did I? I have to remember. I remember doing Misha's one. Did I do that one? Yeah. Yeah, you did. I was just watching it and I saw your credit there on that. So that didn't make that big of an impression on you. Your interview did. I mean, I was like, God, this guy stiff this is exactly where i don't want

to be and no this is why this is why editors should not be on camera yeah look at this no you know they've got this poor guy um you know uh for the fans who are interested um Finding Supernatural, Creating the Found footage episode, it really is an in-depth look at the filmmaking on that episode and features interviews with director Thomas J. Wright, writer Robbie Thompson, executive producer Jeremy Carver, the actors, and the Supernatural Plus team of executive producer Phil Segrecia, producer Todd Aronauer, and of course, Don. There you go.

Yeah. For the fans, it's available in all Season 8 formats and is part of the Supernatural Complete Series box set release. One other extra I have to ask you guys about, I mean, it's a fan favorite. It's the gag reel you guys put together each season. I don't know how

much each of you had a hand in that, but obviously you had to collect the gags throughout the season from the different episodes and then, you know, put that together. Can one of you talk about the gag reel? I think we've all got one. I got one. I never got a chance.

I never, there were things that we had, it was always a team effort that a lot of different people did. And for whatever reason, I was, I think maybe effort that a lot of different people did and for whatever reason i was i think maybe i did a segment of one yeah it was weird but i but i never i i never got to really do the whole thing it got turned over to sean at a certain point sean wagner but before that assistant editors were kind of what we're doing yeah Yeah. I think, well, Phil would lay the music bed down, right?

Yeah. I, I, I got it. I'm like, I'll just give me the music. I like talk them out of it, but yes.

And how, and how did that go? I mean, you want to see something funny. You got to get me and Phil in a, in a, in a bay together. Cause we fight like we're married.

So, uh, it's a lot of fun. Um, yeah, he probably fought me on it. And then, you know, I had, it turned out I had to do way more notes because he didn't do the initial bed, but, uh, I, I worked it out. What was I trying to say? Uh, yeah. So you, you basically as an editor, when you're cutting your dailies, if you see something

funny, you throw it in a bin called the gags for, you know, whatever episode you're in. And then at the end, somebody comes through and takes out all those gags. And, and then anything you thought was funny, sometimes it's labeled gag real. Like sometimes up North, they, they, they're like, this is a gag and they send it down and they label it as such. But sometimes you just see something funny in the dailies and you throw it in there and then that all gets collected. And, you know, it's kind of a team effort that everyone puts together. But on other shows, you know, we sometimes would get, Hey, this is the guy we use for the rap party. And it would include like stuff we couldn't use references to movies and things of that nature. But the one, um, you know,

from supernatural would always come well produced. And as the seasons went on, there would be like graphics or a theme. I mean, the music was obviously awesome. And then you guys always had the photos at the end of the crew, which I was told, hey, these are very important to us. And so I would every year I would go and I would get releases from from the people who took the photos so that we could keep that in there. That was really unique to this show. And I thought, you know, for the fans, I think it was great, great experience. And we know that those were the, like the favorites on the home entertainment releases. Got to see the cake reel. It's always excellent. I was just saying, I think that's again, part of that SPN family thing. Cause I know those photos came from almost every person. And I think it was Hillary

that would collect them all kind of, she'd go around, do you have any photos for this? So I think that you're bringing up an excellent point. Why it feels that way is because it's so many people that loved being a part of it, that it comes through, through how they're giving of all of this stuff to one product. And it all influences how it feels. And then a handful of people put it together and then it goes and it's sort of like a little video yearbook of the seat of the, of the season that way that everybody contributed to.

So I think that's part of it, but, and that's why, but yeah, they're great. I don't know where it started though. Don, were you on in one or two where I feel it almost feels like that was like, like a big Phil thing would have been like a thing. He'd be like, no, you got to gotta get everything together it was a total yeah I mean I came in on I came in on season four so um but yeah I mean I think it's I think it was way back then too I mean it's it's been that way for a long time so yeah I was season four so but yeah it's it's been yeah like you said, it is true.

It sounds like, I don't know. I mean, people say it all the time, the whole supernatural family and stuff like that, but it really truly was. Like I was watching the final, the DVD extras on this season 15, the DVD extras before I came on to this podcast. And it really, it's really, you know, truly is a family,

even though post we're kind of isolated in our own rooms and are really part of the crew in Canada and stuff like that. But we kind of had our own little, you know, family post family and the writers kind of down here in LA, but it really, it really is a family atmosphere. And like I said, I mean, it's the best show that I've worked on, you know, bar none. And that's, you know, that's part of the reason, like what Jimmy said, you know, you, we stayed on it so long was because you are learning every day too, like from, like you said, but it is, it's the atmosphere was great. Let's talk about that this last season of Supernatural.

Jimmy, why don't we start with you? But how did you find out 15 was going to be the last season? Oh, my gosh. I think I don't remember how I found out it was going to be the last season. I think it just somewhere in between 14 and 15. Does anyone remember? I don't remember how I found out it was going to be the last season. I think it just, somewhere in between 14 and 15. Does anyone remember? I don't remember how exactly it happened. I think, I think it was that, it was the, yeah, the tweet.

I mean, I think we kind of all saw like Jensen's tweet that was, you know, from their phone, basically, you know, it was like, that's, this is, this is going to be it. So that's, that's what is this is going to be it so uh that's that's what the way i remember it we always suspected it might be coming you know we always had it we i mean it was water cooler talk right it was just like you know i think this might be it and that was like season 13 or something you know i don't know i think this might be it you know you're at the water cooler. It was constant. Yeah. And then all of a sudden that dropped and it was like, okay, that's it.

What I remember about the last season, and I'll be honest with these two guys, I'm just going to lay it out here right now. I remember scheming to myself going, because it was 20 episodes, right? Yeah. I remember scheming to myself going, if I cut the finale, you also get to cut the premiere. Because it was just the way it mathematically worked out so i i remember telling phil like season right before he left like what was that so season 14 right right and phil i really want this finale like i'm putting my name in the hat right now like please give it to me and he's like uh so he thought about it i think he was like he was cool with it because we kind of all switched on who got premieres and who got finales.

But I was just, remember I was doing the math going, and then he found out that he figured it out. Like, Oh my gosh, you do, you're doing the premiere and the finale. I was like, you can't do that. I remember him. Remember you tried to change it before. Right. And she was like, nah, it's cool though.

Go ahead. Like Phil wanted us us he wanted someone else to cut the premiere and then we switched like and do a back-to-back that was gonna yeah i was gonna be me he wanted me to like i was gonna do the premiere and then and fitz was gonna do what jensen's episode i think that's what yeah and then and then jimmy got the finale anyway i'm sorry fellas but that's what that's what i was doing between 14 and 15 was scheming on how i could get both shows. And I think you got the midseason.

Didn't you get the midseason thing too? I think I did. Who, me? No. I think I cut the midseason finale too. I mean, it was like the greatest. I don't remember. Like 20 was like if you were the first one in doing the premiere, it was just a run.

You got like all the like sweet episodes. I don't remember. What was the midseason this year i don't i don't i don't know if it was nine or ten because it got divided in half right so like it's almost like the last season was too the weirdest thing about for me with uh the last season was we always started filming at around august or or whatever or late july or August. So we stopped abruptly because of COVID in March or whenever that was. And then we were off. And then we started it again in around August. And so it almost felt like we were coming back to do season 16. And you always have to remind yourself, no, I'm in for my one hour. In my case, it was 19 and I'm finishing out. And then that's

it. The lights are going out. So it was a really weird mixed emotional experience because it felt like the same old thing and we were just going to do another year with everybody again and we were all going to be around and yeah and you're constantly being reminded wait no in two more weeks it's done in one more week it's done and it just kind of and then the text messages started coming through on the last day of the last day of filming texting started and the email chains and then it was like oh this is really happening this is this isn't season 16 even though it felt like it this is the end this is the end of the road that was that that was the one thing i watching the dvd extras it was kind of kind of disappointing that we didn't get like full closure like that. No rap part, you know, nothing, you know, you can't, there was really no,

it was the weirdest ending because yeah, when the, like the pandemic hit, it was like one day, well, first of all, it felt like a supernatural episode, right? The whole world is, you know, you're living in a supernatural episode. This is, you know, there's this pandemic there's, you know, what's, what's Chuck doing here, you know, type of thing to the whole world. Right. But it's in reality. So it was weird. Yeah. One day, you know, we're in there, we're in there, you know, I'm getting my, my editor's cut ready for like 18. And the next day we got the email from Warner brothers, you know, and I wanted to go in and like, and mix my tracks for my editor's cut and make sure it was all balanced. And showalter was like, nope, can't go in.

Can't go. And then the next time I went into the office, I was cleaning out my office for like one last time, like a couple months later. It was so weird. Yeah. It was just, that's the thing that's disappointing is, is this show was such a big, huge part of your life personally, right?

And professionally as for me, 11 years. And there was no closure to it. There was basically, you just go home because you're leaving. The whole season was messed up even before COVID. We had that happen to the ISIS where we were like it corrupted ISIS. Our whole sorry, freedom storage for all you fans. Yes, Avid created a system called ISIS before ISIS came along. Yes, Avid created a system called ISIS before ISIS came along.

It corrupted all the media and it was horrific. We were, I mean, you couldn't even play sequences. Like Bob was angry because we couldn't watch things and it was bad. And then COVID hit. Like the whole thing sucked. The whole season 15 was horrible. I was going to ask you, and maybe you guys can go back just a little bit. Like in March, we actually had a crew on set on day one of episode 19 and we filmed

interviews or interviews with, with Jensen and Misha and Alexander. We were going to come back. That was on a Thursday. And we're going to come back that next Friday or excuse me, the next day on Friday. And literally they said, Nope, don't come back because we're going to be shutting down production. And so, you know, Jeff was up there, he flew home and everything. And we thought, well, I mean, none of us knew, but, um, we thought might be obviously a month or two or whatever we did. And then we never went, you know, never, Jeff never made it back. We did get B-roll on the last day, but where were you guys when that happened?

And did you end up finishing your episodes remotely or where were you? I mean, for me, I was eight, I was episode 18. So yeah, like I said, it was basically, I was getting my editor's cut ready. Richard Spate directed it. And then, so yeah, I mean, it was the day before I was turning over my editor's cut and I wanted to go into the office. They sent us home and they were all making contingency plans to get us all Avid's editing systems to go home. The next day, we got an email from Warner Brothers HR saying, if you want to go into your office, you have to contact your HR rep.

You have to do all sorts of things to get approval. So I emailed John Showalter and I said, you know, I want to go in and balance my tracks and get this all set together. And he's like, nope, can't go in. So we basically copied all the media for our show and I cut the rest of it home. I did the director's cut at home. I did the producer's cut at home. We did it through just telephone, email, zoom calls, all that stuff. And we,

I finished my episode out remotely. And like I said, that was it. And then I was done with supernatural and it was just, you know, just sitting here at home in my shorts, cutting supernatural, you know? So, and I know these guys, uh, had a different story. They got to go back in here and there. So let's see, John, you, you did 19. So. Yeah. Had you finished all your previous episodes? Yeah. I have to remember exactly. So I think what we, I was at the office when they, when the whole thing hit, where it was like,

Oh my God, they're shutting down. It was sort of like a weird wave came through because you heard they shut down. I don't remember specifics, but I think it was something like Riverdale or whatever. You just started hearing that these were domino falling, like this was stopping, this was stopping. And for that whole week, oh, man, what's that mean? But we were still kind of going. And then John Showalter had flown up for his 19, one day or two of 19, and then they stopped it. And so I was at the office doing, starting the dailies. It had just began and I had just started to cut 19 and they

stopped it. So I was finishing 16 and they had just started 19. And there was a debate on, yeah, do you go home and finish the last few days of dailies or or that's only you know a couple scenes so is is it worth setting all that up and i i can't remember exactly i think they decided that i didn't need to and the question was what it was more about where are we going to try and finish 16 and get it out to mix and spot it and and all of that so some of that remote happened for a while. And then the whole thing, the mixing stages stopped. Everybody stopped.

So I was in this weird limbo zone of we didn't really finish up everything. And it was unknown. We were on a holding pattern for several weeks on what was going to happen. And then we just waited. I don't remember how it panned out. They did a few things. And then we ended up waiting till the August time. And then I went back in August to finish 19 and that was in the office again. Uh,

they, and with massive amounts of testing and all spaced out differently, but you got COVID tested, you had to wear a mask, you had all these protocols, but I was cutting in the office. I went back to the, you know, to the building, to the office, I think in July or whatever to get, you know, they, they let a few, a few of us back to get stuff pretty like bizarre to go in there probably as like, was there anybody else in there other than you? Uh, that's the weird. Yeah. No, you weren't at the office fits when you came back. No, I wasn't at the, uh, uh, no, I was not at the old office. no i wasn't at the uh no i was not at the old office they kicked us out of the office so that was even we were at another place yeah we were at a new office too but uh i did go back to the

original floor seven office uh in the middle of the summer ish i think i needed to go pick up the hard drive for 16 or something i don't remember remember the specific reason, but I got, like Don said, there was all these permissions. You had to, it was very, very, you know, you had to have a card that you showed that was okay. And you had all this pre-approval. So I went in with this, the pre-approval and there was nobody there at that time, not a soul. And it was the strangest thing. Cause you went upstairs, I have video of it somewhere and it was like a time capsule. It felt you know vesuvius had exploded or whatever you know there was just everything stopped the desks were exactly as they were left the doors were part open there everything was there as if it was just the normal office but not a soul was there

the kitchen was the same the exact way you left everything was there like and like don said he's it's almost like a supernatural episode it's like time stopped in this office and it was the weirdest thing so uh jimmy you edited the final episode which i mean that's like a kind of an honor in a way i would i would think it's the final episode of this long running you know beloved series talk a little bit about you know uh editing that episode and and tell us series. Talk a little bit about, you know, uh, editing that episode and, and tell us, tell the fans a little bit about that. I loved it. It was, it was weird. It was weird, you know, coming into it, like building up to it. Uh, we were trying to figure out how we were going to do it. Cause

spoiler alert, Bob Singer, isn't the most technologically advanced, um, person around. So it wasn't like we were all going to Zoom and, you know, do all these technological things over the internet. Like Bob wants to, you know, he's a little bit old school. He wants to be in a bay with you and working with you. So we were trying to figure out how we're going to make that possible. There were discussions at one point of me setting up a bay in his house and I'd just go over there and we would run the show.

It ended up that we got a place, I believe. Did we get it through Jeremy Carver? Like, did he have anything to do with that? Or was it just randomly that his offices were there? I don't know the answer to that. Anyway, we ended up at Jeremy Carver's, his new show. Was it Doom Patrol? I can't remember.

We ended up in those offices. And yeah, it was fun. It was weird. It was sad. I had a lot of fun cutting the episode, you know? I thought once, you know, that scene with Dean when he dies, I mean, Jensen and Jared were doing this for 15 years, waiting for that moment. Like they knew they were so Dean and Sam, it was just amazing to cut. It was so fun to cut it. And I loved it. Uh, it was, it was a really fun episode

to do. I wish some of the earlier scripts had a chance, but they just didn't because of COVID. There was some cool stuff. Yeah. And fans, just for those of you who want to hear the story about some of what was going to happen or maybe be in that final episode and how that all had to change, you definitely have to check out the, um, the extra on the box set that goes through that, uh, the end of the road, Don and John. I mean, you guys were kind of, obviously the three of you were a team, but you guys were kind of watching that last episode. What were some of your takes and when did you see it and and what were you what were your feelings there you want to go first on sure i mean for

me i guess kind of for me it's like the finality of it right like i was talking before i mean for all of us i mean are the three of us here i was on the longest so like 11 seasons over a decade of my life was involved in this show and it was was kind of like a, you know, finality. Okay. It's really over. Like for me, like I said, too, it's, you know, I never had the finality of, I got kicked out of my bay and then I never went back. It just, you know, a couple of months later to clean it out. So, and there was, you know, no wrap party, no really chance to say goodbye to people or anything kind of like that. So watching it kind of, I don't know, put a, you know, put a button on the whole thing for me, even though it was kind of,

you know, anticlimactic where it's like, okay, not the episode, but just my personal experience. I mean, you know, the stuff, you know, that, that I went through in those 10 years, my kids growing up, my, you know, personally and professionally and all that kind of stuff, it was like, okay, this is, this is it. This is really it. It's over, you know, that type of thing where, uh, you know, personally and professionally and all that kind of stuff, it was like, okay, this is, this is it. This is really it. It's over. You know, that type of thing where, uh, you know, you kind of don't, you, you know, what's happening, but you kind of don't want to believe it. But then all of a sudden it's over. That's, that's what it was for me so much. I know people watch, you know, Sam and Dean and that type of stuff. But for me, I'm thinking about me as a person, as a whole, that's what it, you know, what it meant to me,'s what it meant to me as an editor on the show and all that kind of stuff where

we're never going to be working with these people. Again, we might, but not in the same capacity, not in the show. And so that it really probably put the end of it for me. That's what it was, the last episode watching it. John? Yeah, I'm trying to remember where I saw it. I saw it at the offices. I was, I was still finishing up, um, 19 and I was in a, at a bay far away. Yeah. I think that's right. Yeah. You did. Yeah. Bob came down. I remember Bob came down. This is going to be hard not to

get choked up. Bob came down and he said, Hey, we're going to, we're going to watch this. I said, Oh, okay. He's like, you're one of the family. Come on in. Cause it wasn't my episode. And normally you didn't do that. You didn't, the other editor didn't sit in on a director pass for, it was just not, not because there's anything wrong with it.

It was just, you know, you didn't really do that. You had things to do. So he let, he let me sit in and when they ran it in the bay and, uh, yeah, so it was, and it was a really impactful experience because it was totally different than any other episode. It, uh, it was very personal and super emotional and that's like Jimmy said, that scene where, where Sam and Dean was, I mean, that's like jimmy said that scene where where sam and dean was i mean that's

that was a tough one and uh yeah so it was but that's where i saw it and then we saw it again i think we did a zoom party where everybody got to watch the actual simultaneous with the airing but that's where i saw it the first time was in the in with jimmy and and uh john showalter and and bob in the edit thing we can do some yeah we want to do some behind the scenes stuff in that one i'll tell you some stuff let me sneak here so the big remember the big thing with outfits was um it came down to okay so i'll say this i have been trying to get brothers in arms uh into a show probably since season eight i've put it in multiple times and it's never gone through and sorry i'm just looking at my phone so i can get the right the name of the

artist here um dire straits right yeah yeah no i'm sorry the other one i'll get to in just a second dire straits brothers and arms i've been trying to get i put it in multiple multiple shows never got it through i believe i put it in when Cass died, and I didn't get it there. And I'll save you the other times. So I get it in there. Everybody loves it. And then Eugenie comes in with Once I Was by Tim Buckley, which is a great song, too. And there was, I mean, how long that go on fits?

It probably went on for five days of which song we were going to pick and it was and there's another one of those examples of everybody just the family and and the the the just upping the game it's like you know everybody's in on it it's like oh yeah this song's great too watch this by the way yeah it was is bob's wife so everyone yeah so she came in and a writer and a writer yeah on the show yeah and it was great it was just yeah and we all everybody yeah we watched that thing three different ways i think that was one thing um trying to remember anything else it's mostly just the stories just just sitting in there shooting the crap with bob what you brought

up uh it reminds me i should have asked you a little bit earlier, but the music in the show, I mean the, you know, the licensed music, the rock, classic rock, everything is so key to, I don't know, the vibe of the show and everything. What went into some of the thinking and planning? Did you guys drop in track sometimes that, that got, that stayed in? Yeah, I did. Yeah. I mean, we got it but it was that's all credit to phil phil was like music master i mean i'd say early on don you can talk about it like before phil and not that he didn't trust me but i mean you'd come in there with 75 tracks that you'd

have to bring in that he was like yeah i think this will work i think this will work and but but he always allowed us to put in our track on the editor cut. So I think it's probably something we all share. I grew up listening to that music. So it's a little older than what I am, but that's the music my dad listened to, and I loved listening to that era of music. So it wasn't –

It was almost like an award, how I remember it. My first introduction to it was I was Jimmy's assistant. So he let me do the music. And I'd be like, oh, well, then I'm putting Trini Lopez, Crooked Little Man in here. Or I'd just come up with some random thing. And the idea wasn't that they were going to ever really do it, but it would just be your sort of little like thing.

But if Phil approved it to let it go up, oh, a badge of honor right it was like oh yes i picked something that he liked and it happened sometimes not all the time you know he'd be like no i think we're gonna go with this and he'd come up with his own thing but it was sort of like a thing that if you came up with the track that got to stay and he, and he gave it the stamp to go up the line, because he was the gatekeeper. There's a backstory to that. You got to realize Phil Segreche is like a music master. I mean, he's a record, he produces bands.

He produced a band, it was the Petunia and the Vipers, I think is the name of them. He helped produce their album. I mean, this guy loves music. There isn't a genre of music that I don't think he knows about. And he would throw in such deep tracks. And funny enough, I have like a playlist on my phone that's like songs that Phil introduced me to that I still like listen to sometimes. Well, on a sideline about the music, he had these playlists that he created when he was in college or whatever.

Like they were on old analog, like reel to reel maybe or tape. And he digitized and he had access to they had all these weird names like songs about food and you know get the hell out or whatever and then and he just he'd be like here you should have this playlist and so we all started listening to phil's playlists of music and then when the pandemic happened, he started sending songs every day. I mean, he would curate these songs and email blast everybody. And he'd do this whole like news update of like, we're going to go back to 62 when these people recorded this.

And you'd have these download links. The whole story. The whole story. Yeah. Yeah. And he started like a whole thing and he did it for the first two months of the pandemic and then i think you know he had to stop because i mean i the amount of time and care that went into doing it for for everybody's basically mental health to feel like something was normal and so i

like jimmy's saying i have a whole covid phil's covid 19 playlist on my iTunes now. And it's the most eclectic grouping of music, you know, ever, but it's fun to listen to. He should have his own like Spotify list. He would show you stuff like that. He showed me some, he's like, there's this crazy channel out in San Francisco. You should check it out. Like, and you can download it.

Soma FM. Yeah. And I used to listen to Drone Zone on that. There was, he, you could go down a rabbit hole with Phil. like and you can download my fm yeah and i used to listen to drone zone on that there was he you could go down a rabbit hole of phil and just to like you know add a little bit to that i think it was me and pj started started calling phil tv dad uh we're basically like yeah phil's our tv dad and he kind of was he kind of like in a weird way raised us all and kind of taught us to his way and so yeah you were always trying to impress him every time he came in the room,

I wanted to impress him. And then Bob would have been, you know, TV grandpa. So you're constantly trying to impress him too. Like just, you know, just love me, dad. We would always, we would always joke with Phil about that. We even made shirts. Remember we made shirts. Oh yeah. We made dad shirts and gave it to him. One of the, uh, one of the extras I really love, I don't recall which season, but the episode, um, and tommy guns did any of you guys edit that no but you did the promo

for it jimmy i know that's what i was saying i was like oh is that the one where dean goes where he uh he's elliot works with elliot ness yeah yes i cut a promo for that so don would have cut it don cut it oh no maybe I just did a promo. Yeah, no, I did the one. I did the one where Dean goes back in time. Is that one? Yeah, that is that one. Yeah, yeah.

That was that was the whole speaking of music. The big thing about that, too, with Phil was, I mean, they ended up, you know, renting a whole recording studio and it was all a full band. It was, you know, that type of thing, you know, to get the real, the sound of the real instruments and that type of stuff. Yeah. No, that was a good one. That's one of my favorite extras. Cause you know, obviously Phil, when we pitched it to him, he was all about, sure.

Yeah, let's do it. But knowing Phil, he just wanted us to like, be sure and focus on the, the musicians, you know, and, and which we did. Cause we were there filming behind the scenes that day that they did the, the musicians, you know, and, and which we did, cause we were there filming behind the scenes that day that they did the recording in this, in the soundstage or the, the recording place. And I think Chris was there doing the, you know, the live and it was, it was an amazing piece of behind the scenes that really went into the music part of the show. Let me just correct myself real, real quick. The extra was called washboards and Tommy guns,

but the episode is time after time after time yeah i think i still have i think he pressed he uh burned cds too on the soundtrack of that episode yeah i got that somewhere with all my other cds it was vinyl for chris i mean it was everything was music everything you have records for christmas yeah i have i have a vintage stereo i have a sansui 70 70 and a and a turntable now because phil kept bringing in vinyl you know just random especially it might be my birthday or it's just a special occasion or christmas or whatever you'd be like finsey i got this for you and it would be vinyl and it's like the third album finally i i just molded over i was like i gotta tell him i was like I don't have a record player.

I really, thanks, but I don't. And he goes, and he goes, that's not my problem. You're going to now. I was just like,

all right. So then I ended up getting one and listen to all these, the stuff he's, he gave me. It's fun. guys, man, it's been a real pleasure talking with you today.

I think you gave a lot of great info for that. And so, uh, thanks for coming's been a real pleasure talking with you today. I think you gave a lot of great info for the band. So thanks for coming on the show and sharing your stories. Absolutely. Thank you. Anytime. Thank you. For those of you interested in learning more about the extras discussed in the show today, there will be detailed information on the website at www.theextras.tv and look for Supernatural season 15 on DVD and Blu-ray as this is the exclusive place where you can find the documentaries The End of the Road and Family Donut with Blood as well as the Season 15 Gagra which comes in at a whopping 15 minutes. Supernatural the complete series on DVD and Blu-ray is packed with all the extras we created over the years which comes out

to over 53 hours. This includes all of the season 15 content we've mentioned. Plus there is a 68 page book filled with new images, set designs, letters to the fans from Eric Kripke, Bob Singer, and much more. This is a must have box set for all diehard Supernatural fans. Until next time, you've been listening to The Extras with Tim Millard. All you fans out there, stay slightly obsessed. The Extras is a production of Otaku Media, producers of podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connects creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals

at www.otakumedia.tv or look for the link in the show notes.