The Extras - IT'S ALIVE: Bela Lugosi, Boris Karloff, and the Casting of Frankenstein

Episode Date: September 26, 2023

Screenwriter, producer, and author Julian David Stone joins the podcast to discuss his new novel, IT'S ALIVE, and the fascinating story about the last-minute casting of Frankenstein.  The story involves Bela Lugosi, who was at the height of his popularity having just come off his hit DRACULA (1931), and Boris Karloff, a relatively unknown journeyman actor.   And pulling the strings is young 23-year-old Junior Laemmle, head of production at Universal Pictures and son of studio founder Carl Laemmle.  Along the way we meet director James Whale, discuss the involvement of Lon Chaney, and explore the backdrop of 1930s Hollywood.  It's a fascinating look into the real-life events behind one of the most enduring films and most important developments in the evolution of the Universal Monsters.Purchase IT'S ALIVE on AmazonPurchase FRANKENSTEIN 4K on AmazonPurchase UNIVERSAL MONSTERS 4K Collection on AmazonVisit Julian David Stone's website for more informationFollow Julian David Stone on Facebook The Extras Facebook pageThe Extras Twitter Warner Archive & Warner Bros Catalog GroupOtaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals. www.otakumedia.tv

Hi, I'm film historian and author John Fricke. I've written books about Judy Garland and the Wizard of Oz movie, and you're listening to The Extras. Hello and welcome to The Extras, where we take you behind the scenes of your favorite TV shows, movies, and animation, and their release on digital, DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K, or your favorite streaming site. I'm Tim Lard, your host. Well, as regular listeners of the podcast know, I enjoy having writers on the show.

So I'm excited today to have Julian Stone joining us. Julian has written screenplays for Disney, Paramount, Sony, and MGM. He's written the full-length play The Elvis Test. And he's produced short-form documentaries on Frank Sinatra for Warner Brothers. He's the author of several books, including his most recent book, It's Alive, which is a novelization of the three days leading up to the start of production on the 1931 monster classic, Frankenstein. Hi, Julian. It's great to have you on the podcast. Hi, how are you doing? Great to be here. Thanks so much for having me on.

Well, we met at a book fair and I already had the book because I had bought it at Dark Delicacies there at Burbank, but you signed it for me. That was fun to meet you in person. And that's when I think we said, hey, let's do this podcast closer to obviously Halloween, October. Great time of the year to do that. And then I've been noticing over the last few months, you've been doing some presentations and everything about the story that's included in the book. So I'm looking forward to getting into that discussion with you. But as I was going through your bio, I noticed you did a project or a play, I guess, on Elvis. You did the short documentaries on Frank Sinatra. So what's the background or interest in

music that led you to those? Sure, that's a great question. Boy, that goes back kind of to the beginning when I was first sort of getting interested in the film business, I was concurrently like a lot of teenagers obsessed with rock and roll. And I realized very quickly that once I picked up a guitar, my rock and roll career ended about five minutes later when I realized I couldn't really play. But since I loved film and photography, I started photographing rock and roll concerts. And that just led to a whole other life that I had as a teenager in my early 20s when I used to photograph rock and roll concerts. In fact, I have a book out also of the adventures that I had back then called No Cameras Allowed, my career as an outlaw rock and roll photographer. So I've concurrently had this life in the world of music, but it was related because it was as a photographer and also as a filmmaker.

So it's always been a very strong passion of mine. And I was thrilled to have those other projects come along related to music. And then for the Sinatra pieces that you did for Warner Brothers, were those used as like extras in one of their home entertainment releases? That's exactly what they were. There were two different pieces that I did. The first one appeared on a Frank Sinatra Christmas release. It was called Silent Night. And they found an old vocal track of Frank singing Silent Night and they extracted his vocal. So they got together as many living members of Frank Sinatra's original band to record this new accompaniment to go with this vocal track that they had extracted. And they did this twice, both with the Silent Night session, which

was released on a Christmas album, and a few years later on another Greatest Hits album called Body and Soul. And again, the same thing, they got as many of the band members together. And I documented the session. And I also interviewed all of them about what it was like working with Sinatra, touring with them. And they had amazing stories because these guys had been with Sinatra for years and years. And I also interviewed members of the family, Tina and Frank Jr. and Nancy. So it was just a great project all around. Well, we talk a lot about the Warner Archive releases on this podcast, and they've had a number of Elvis releases lately, which, you know, the movies, you can love them or hate them, but the music in them is always a big thing for the fans. And so another one's coming out.

So it's kind of fun. I found it kind of interesting to see that on your bio. But obviously you have another interest, which is horror. And that's the, that's the premise or the backstory for this book. And I really enjoyed reading the book. It's a very easy read. You know, it's a page turner in that sense. And I really enjoyed the setup where you basically begin at the weekend before production is to begin on Frankenstein. But tell us a little bit, let's go back, tell us a little bit about what kind of got you thinking that you wanted to do this book project and then how you started to kind of put it together.

Sure. So I grew up like a lot of kids, a fan of the horror films when I was a lot younger. In the early 70s, I was kind of the original generation of monster kids. Then, you know, I got older and moved into other interests. And I rediscovered the films many years later as an adult. And I saw them as completely different things, far more complex and interesting. And at this point, I was working in the film business, you sort of went through my credits, and I was working as a screenwriter and a filmmaker. So I was got interested in what went on behind the scenes in the making of the horror films. And as I started to read about them, I eventually landed on the character of Carl Lemley Jr.

or Junior Lemley, who was at the age of 21 running Universal Studios. And he was the person who personally chose to make the original five, the classic cornerstone of the universal monster cycle, Dracula, Frankenstein, the mummy, the invisible man and bride of Frankenstein. And I couldn't get my head past the fact that there was a 21 year old running a film studio running universal studios, and that he had chosen to make these films. So that's when I started to also, you know, again, I was a writer at this point, I said, there's got to be a story there. And I sort of jumped in and started to look into who Junior was. And also, I wanted to know why, why did he choose to make these films. And that's what ended up, I landed on this moment right before the making of

Frankenstein, because it was the perfect moment moment where really the cycle launches into what we think of it today. He's already had a success with Dracula. And now they want to follow it up with Frankenstein. And everybody thought he was crazy to make Dracula. And now everybody thinks he's even crazier to do Frankenstein because he got lucky with Dracula. Frankenstein is going to be a disaster. Everybody is telling him, especially his father who started the studio. And Junior decides, nope, he's going to do it anyway. And I just found that an amazing moment. Plus, you have a little known fact about Boris Karloff and Bela Lugosi that originally when Frankenstein was first put together, it was going to be Bela Lugosi as the monster, not Boris Karloff. And this final decision about who it ended up being by all of the records that are out there

came down almost to the last minute before the beginning of shooting. So this is the moment I chose to write about this interplay between these three legends, Carl Laemmle Jr., Boris Karloff, and Bela Lugosi, trying to figure out how this film was all going to come together and go on to become the legendary film that we know it as. Yeah, and I talked to authors who are film historians and they write, you know, terrific books about the background on directors and studio heads and different things.

But they're more kind of more of a film history read. This is a total novel. more of a film history read. This is a total novel. And it's really fun because you bring us into the world of Hollywood of that time. Obviously, we've got the perspective of Junior here, and it's his story. But you did a fun job. I really enjoyed just kind of as you jump to the different characters, you've got the Bella, what's going through his mind and why he was making his decisions. And then Boris, and then the interplay between Junior and his father. And I thought that was all fascinating. It was really fun. And I could see your background as a screenwriter, of course, in storytelling. So it's a terrific read. I really enjoyed that. And I highly recommend it for people who are interested in reading that story as a novel

versus a purely kind of academic take on what this was happening, that was happening. There's a lot of fun stuff in there. What was some of the fun stuff that you enjoyed in terms of when you were researching that and putting that together? Sure. I love doing research. And yes, it is a work of fiction. It's historical fiction. But I tried to stay as close to the facts as often as possible. It's where I took liberties is that, you know, there are scenes that we don't really know what exactly was said. And I sort of created them based on all of the historical record, to the best of my knowledge. I loved everything about it. What I really, again, I love doing research. In fact, I can get kind of carried away with it to the point that I have to sort of say, no, stop researching. You have to start writing because research is so fun. And I wanted to capture who these people were at this moment.

People think of Bela Lugosi and Boris Karloff as legends, which they are, but the reality is they were actors trying to have a career. And at the time that this story takes place, Boris Karloff, for lack of a better term, is a struggling actor. He's been in Hollywood for 10 years. He's in his early 40s, and he's been in over 80 movies. And even though he'd done that many films, it was two days at one studio, two days at another studio, maybe a week if he was lucky. He was a struggling actor. And Lugosi, at the moment of this story, was at the highest point his career would ever reach. He would have other moments of success, but he was never a bigger star than he was right

after Dracula. And it was a real turning point for everybody involved. And so it was fun bringing that to life and just showing who Karloff was as a person that he had to keep the perseverance that he showed in his desire to be a successful actor. You know, it's it's a lot to spend 10 years in Hollywood. And he'd been acting for even a lot longer than that, trying to make it and I just wanted to show that in him and Lugosi also, you know, here is a person who now at this moment is a success. But what a life he'd had before then. He'd been a star twice before in two different countries, first in his home country of Hungary and then in Germany. Then he comes to America and again, achieved stardom. And those last two examples weren't even in his home language. It's really quite a remarkable story. So it was fun bringing that to life. And also, just all of the fun of Hollywood. One of my favorite scenes is that,

and it's again based on the truth, there was a legendary poker game that Samuel Goldwyn would have, and the studio heads would play at this game. And I love the notion of that, of these guys sitting down and playing. And there were stories, and I sort of referenced this, of sometimes people would lose and get in debt. So part to pay off the debt, they'd be like, okay, you can have Barbara Stanwyck for one picture. You know, like just the notion that these guys sort of bargaining and betting with their stars

was something that was just too irresistible to turn down. And, you know, another thing, being a huge fan of the horror films, I love Jack Pierce, the makeup artist, who created the looks for all of these films. So I wanted to go into that makeup room and describe what that was like being made up by him. So I have a scene that takes place there with Karloff being made up by Jack Pierce. So that's really the fun of it. You can just go wherever you want to go. And people

have responded very much the way you did with about how well the story moves forward. And I just wanted to keep it moving with the scene sort of jumping from the point of view of the three different characters. And that's why people come back and call it a page turner, which I'm really pleased to hear that because that was the goal. And perhaps that comes from my screenwriting background where you got to keep it moving. Yeah,? Yeah. The biggest sin of screenwriting, of course, is to be boring. You got to keep it moving, keep it going, and keep accelerating that action.

One scene needs to build on the other and everything. But you also take the time to go a little bit interior monologue with each of the principles so that you do get that background on why they're at this point and why they're making the decisions.

You know, why Bell is making that decision. Hey, he's finally reached recognition and you want me to cover my face with all this makeup so that people can't see me? I mean, that makes a ton of sense of why he really didn't want to do it and why, of course, Boris Karloff was like more than willing because as a struggling actor, he's not going to turn down an opportunity to become an A-list and work on an A-list, you know, type of picture. Oh, absolutely. You know, it yeah, it was, you know, Boris was happy to have the job. And Lugosi was frustrated by the fact that, you know, all he'd been through to become a star and now they want to cover his face up. And so that that's part of the legend of why he turned it down, that he wasn't happy with that. And he referred to the character as a mute scarecrow. And he said, you know,

I'm an actor, I don't play that type of role. So that was a big part of it. And I wanted to bring all of that to life. A couple other little interesting things that popped in my mind is that Boris, in this portrayal of the monster, you would think, well, we're talking just the industry is coming out of silence. Right. And yet you, you do talk about how Boris was brought to Hollywood or first got his break because he was a stage actor. So he could talk. And that was some interesting background that, that the industry was really looking for stage actors as talkies began, because they knew that, okay, they know how to deliver lines and project and do all these things that we now need that we

didn't need a couple of years ago. And yet within that, he's going to portray a monster that has very few lines and is actually goes back almost as almost a throwback to more of a silent type style of emoting. But I just thought that that juxtaposition was quite interesting and added a lot to the story. Yeah, you know, that was the truth. You know, like I said, he'd been in Hollywood for 10 years, but for 10 years before that, he had traveled around in these traveling theater companies. He did this for years all over the United States and Canada, where they would go into a town and in the course of a week, they would do like seven or eight different plays, like a different play every day,

sometimes two different plays in the same day. Then often on the last day, they would redo the play that had been the most popular, you know, amongst the audiences that had come to see it. And then they would travel over the weekend and on to the next town. So he had had a ton of stage experience. So when the movie started to talk, like you said, just a few years before Frankenstein was made, he was very primed to be able to slide right in as he had a lot of experience in it. But no, the irony is that his big breakthrough came in a role where he didn't speak. But he's so remarkable in the film. It really just blows me away every time I see it.

And we're not going to do any spoilers here and we don't want to over talk the book itself. But I think the story, a lot of the stuff we're talking about is known. It's out there. And you've put it, you know, into a terrific read for that. But at the end there, a few of the things that you drop in, I was like, ah, okay, on what Boris did to kind of bring the character to life. And then the poker game was terrific fun. I really enjoyed that.

I'm glad you went there because, I mean, we know about these things, but you really took us into it and the background of it. That was a lot of fun. about these things, but you really took us into it and the background of it. That was a lot of fun. So how much of that interplay between Junior, that tension between Junior and his father was really happening at that time or that weekend? Or how much did you condense kind of like who's going to take over the control of the studio? And are we really going to go into monster films and really put our prestige on the line? That is 100% true. Carl Emly Sr. had founded the studio. He put Junior in charge of the studio when he was 21. And right away, almost from the beginning, there was a friction about,

even though Carl Sr. had put him in charge, about what Junior was choosing to do. Junior, being younger and of another generation, he wanted to change what Universal was doing. Universal in the 20s had become famous for kind of more rural fare. They made a lot of westerns, films that didn't play in the big cities. And Junior wanted to change that. And so almost from the moment he came in, and this is sort of a line that I use in my presentation, Junior did what any kid with a rich father would do. He started spending the old man's money. And he started making these big, lavish productions that were musicals and stuff that, for the most part, his father stayed away

from. So there was already a little bit of tension there. And then when he turned into the monster films, Carl Sr. thought it was the worst thing. He just said, this is not the type of material we should be doing. Nobody will want to see it. But Jr. had a different vision. He was from a different generation, and he felt they would. And he persisted. And thankfully for all of us monster kids, you know, there's some of the oldest films that are the most famous. I mean, Universal is building a monster land right now, you know, 90 years after these films came out down in Orlando. And it's a testament to the staying power. And his father was completely against them. And again, this is from my presentation, there's a quote that I sort of end with, which is from Carl

Lemley, Sr., where he says, you know, as to, you know, the horror films, that was all Junior, he was the one that wanted to do it, we were all against it. And he showed us all. And that was only a few films in. They had no idea that here we would be 90 years later, you know, still talking about these films. So, yes, that that was absolutely true. His father was dead set against it. You know, like any father with his son, you know, is often questions the choices that

that he makes. And in the case of this, it was the family business. And he even more so had conflicts with him. And they, you know, they fought like father and son, but, you know, typically do. But they were very, very close. And they had a fascinating relationship, you know, all the way through their their lives. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Hi, this is Tim Millard, host of The Extras Podcast. And I wanted to let you know that we have a new private Facebook group for fans of the Warner Archive and Warner Brothers catalog physical media releases. So if that interests you, you can find the link on our Facebook page or look for the link in the podcast show notes.

Yeah, and it's a fascinating time period, isn't it? Of film history, because everything was so new and people just didn't know. And we look back and we just take for granted that, oh, of course, you know, why not take that risk? But this was a huge, huge risk. I mean, people had done some horror in the silent eras. There were some movies there, but in talkies and just the amount of money that they spent on this was a huge risk. Oh, no question. Yes, there had been some horror films, but they didn't call them that yet. That's another interesting thing that comes out of this, the success of Frankenstein. In the 20s, there were, you know, they would call them mysteries or thrillers or shockers. They weren't called horror films yet. But by and large, the studios

didn't go super deep in them. You know, most of the Universal had a little bit of a history with Phantom of the Opera, The Man Who Laughs, things like that. But this was a very different story starting with Dracula. With Dracula, it's not an act, you know, all of those other films, when you started with supernatural elements, by the end of the film, it was revealed that, oh, it was really a person who was behind it. You know, somebody who was doing something for greed or for lust. I call it, for lack of a better term, the Scooby-Doo reveal. It's like, oh, no, it's this person who's been doing it. It's not really a phantom, you know, that sort of thing. Dracula was very different. In Dracula,

it's not somebody pretending to be a vampire. It really is a vampire. Dracula is a vampire who can only be killed with a stake driven through his chest into his heart. You know, this is pretty gruesome stuff. And none of the studios wanted anything to do with it. Nosferatu had been made about 10 years earlier, but that was made in Europe. The major studios thought this type of creepy material was to be avoided. And even after the success of Dracula, they still thought it was to be avoided. It was after Frankenstein was a hit. And again, Frankenstein had been around for a long time. Edison had made a, you know, a short one reeler of it some 20 years before, but it doesn't, you know, if anybody's ever seen it, you won't even recognize it compared to what we think of as Frankenstein. The studios wanted no part of it, but Junior persisted. And after Frankenstein, then everybody jumped on board. You can just go and look at the, you know, starting about 32, every studio's got some horror film, and they started calling them horror films. Up until then,

like I said, they were mysteries, they were shockers. Now they've decided, oh, this is going to be around for a while, we're going to call them horror films. And it begins and the universal cycle goes on for another 25 years. Yeah, it's a fascinating story and really a fun one to kind of dig into in reading your book. Now, when you do the presentations, you talk about Lemley more so than the film itself. How is that different, your presentations from the book? Sure, that's a great question. So the book takes place, like you said, the days leading up to the beginning of production of Frankenstein, and follows the story concurrently between Carl Lemley Jr., Boris Karloff, and Bela Lugosi, and they all sort of have equal footing,

moving through that period leading up to the beginning of production. My presentation is entirely on Carl Laemmle Jr. It's basically, you know, the man behind the monsters where you've got all these famous characters and all these famous people around it, and nobody's heard of the guy who's most responsible for it. And so I tell the whole story of Carl Laemmle Jr. starting from the beginning to the end of his life and even the period after Universal. The concentration is definitely on the horror films. You know, it's a fascinating story, even before you get to, you know, where I compressed it into those three days. But I tell all the backstory of all the different things that went on over the months leading up to

the beginning of Frankenstein with, we're going to cast this person, no, that person, we can't get them. It's really a great story. And then Junior's whole life is very fascinating, as is Carl Laemmle Sr. So the presentation tells the whole story of Carl Laemmle Jr. with an emphasis on the monsters. And one thing we didn't really talk about, I want to go back to for a second, was in the book, you do talk about Lon Chaney and some of his impact previously to this. So there was a little bit there with Lon Chaney and I guess in some of his films that informed, I guess, Bela Lugosi's performance in Dracula and then Boris in Frankenstein. And I think you even referenced that they had both met him. And I think you even referenced that they had both met him. Yeah, that was another neat thing. When I did the research, I was like, oh, wow, you know, what a great way to work him into the story, because he's kind of the godfather of, you know, this type of he's like the first

sort of horror star. Originally, Junior Lemley wanted Lon Chaney to play Dracula, and they were in negotiations and by some accounts even had made a deal. And then unfortunately, Chaney was very sick and he passed away before they started shooting the film. So that's when Junior then started searching and eventually ended up on Lugosi. had been a big hit, he wasn't Junior's first choice. You know, eventually he was hired, but Lugosi would complain years later that he was given the role after every actor in town was auditioned and their pets. So, you know, but thankfully he eventually got there. But Chaney, absolutely. He's, you know, he had a history with Universal. He made some of his earliest films at Universal before leaving. And

part of the story of bringing him back for Dracula, besides Junior thinking he was perfect for the role, was a nice story about his return to the studio, the studio where his career had really taken off. And yes, that is true that both Lugosi and Karloff knew him a little bit, particularly Karloff. Karloff used to tell a story about leaving a studio from one of his little short jobs one day and Cheney spotting him and offering him a ride across town or wherever he was going, because, you know, Cheney was a star, naturally had a nice car. Karloff was most likely looking to go take the bus. And during this ride, you know, they were talking about the

business and Cheney gave him some advice that he'd always talk about, which was you need to find something as a performer that will make you stand out. And so that may have informed some of the things that that Karloff did later, because Cheney clearly found his place with, you know, the man of a thousand faces and all of the stuff that he did. Lugosi didn't know him as well, but had some encounters with him. And I believe there's some belief that he was a background early in his time in Hollywood or in the film business in, I think it's the, what's that film? The Clown Who Laughs or one of the mid-20s Cheney films. There's some belief that Lugosi was in that film in an

uncredited role. And that's perhaps where they had some interactions too. Yeah, it's so fascinating. I guess the one other person I wanted to talk about before we kind of wrap this up was the director, James Whale. I mean, I don't think we should finish without talking about him because he's so important to the story as well. And you weave him in and there's an interesting kind of back and forth on who is going to direct this. And then, you know, he wants one guy and then Junior's jumping around, making, changing his mind, I should say, or seemingly changing his mind. But there's also exterior forces of other people changing their minds. And, but in researching this, what did other people changing their minds. But in researching

this, what did you kind of learn or what was interesting about James Whale? Well, James Whale, to me, is one of two people that is really responsible for why the films are still so popular all these years later. You know, you made reference to there being other horror films that were made in the 20s, you know, Nosferatu, Cabinet of Dr. Calgary. Well, those are amazing films, but they're very dry. The reason that the Universal films, to me, have continued to be so successful and then were rediscovered in the 50s and the 60s by a new audience of children is the humor that is in them, that they're dark and they're fascinating, but they also have a very light touch to them. And that's what James

Whale brought to it. He had this very interesting English sense of humor, and it's all over those original films. Because of the five that I mentioned that sort of are the cornerstone of the cycle, he directed three of them and his sensibility carried on beyond just the films that he did. So that's what he brought to it. He was a soldier in World War I and eventually entered the theater in England and made his name directing on stage and then also doing a film adaptation of the play that made him famous called Journey's End. That's what brought him to Hollywood. People saw this film adaptation of Journey's End. Everybody wanted his services. Junior won the battle for him, and he started working for Universal. So that's really what he brought to it. And there was

another interesting thing about him. And I also talk about this, which I sort of foreshadow with some of the appeal, because everything with Junior was about wanting to be about the future, not the past. James Whale, as a filmmaker, had no experience in the silent era. He was entirely a filmmaker of the sound era. So he had none of the sort of trappings of that previous way that films have been made. And I believe that's something else that he brought to it. He did some interesting things with sound in Frankenstein. That was again, from somebody who had only grown up in that world. And you also mentioned that the yeah, the original writer and director of Frankenstein was Robert Flore, who was a French director who was starting to make his name and he he gave the initial pitch to Junior about how to do the film.

But when he Junior got James Whale, James Whale on the payroll at Universal and loved the work that he was doing for Universal, James Whale made a previous film for him called Waterloo Bridge. He told him, you can have any film you want here that we have in development. And James Whale said, I want to do Frankenstein. So unfortunately, as it often works out in Hollywood, I want to do Frankenstein. So unfortunately, as it often works out in Hollywood, that was the end of Robert Florey and in came James Whale. Yeah, though Florey and Sidney Fox, who is a character in your story as well, end up working on another film together, I guess the one with Bella, right?

Exactly. So they all sort of get, I hate to use the term consolation prize, but all of them were, you know, were supposed to be, with the exception of Sidney Fox, but Lugosi and Florey were supposed to do Frankenstein. They end up doing Murders in the Rue Morgue, which Florey directs, Bela Lugosi stars in, and Sidney Fox, who did have a relationship with Junior Lemley, and she's the love interest throughout my novel. She also ends up on Murders in the Room, Oregon. Obviously, all of that is based on fact. That is a film that they all did together. Now, where can people find the book? I mean, I'll have links to it on the podcast show notes, but do you also have a website and other places that people can follow you? Yeah, absolutely. You can check out everything I'm doing at juliendavidstone.com. I'm also busy on Facebook and all the social medias. You can get the book at Amazon. You can get autographed copies directly from me off of the website.

And it's at bookstores, too. Those aren't signed copies, but you can, although you can go to Larry Edmonds, actually, if everybody knows that place in Hollywood, they have some signed copies of mine. Yeah, so that's the place to get it, Amazon, JulianDavidstone.com. And you can also see some of the stuff about some of the other projects that we talked about. They're also there. I have some fun little short films I made around some of my adventures in the rock and roll years when I was doing all of my adventures in the rock and roll years

when I when I was doing all of that are also included there. And I'm doing these presentations. I don't know when this this podcast is going to air, but I'm going to be at Monsterpalooza doing an encore presentation of my junior Lemley presentation. I did it there six months ago, and it went very, very well. So they asked me to come back and do it again. And I'm going to do the presentation again. And then at the end, I'm going to do a panel discussion with I don't know if you know, if you know, Antonia Carlotta, she's the grand niece of Carl Lemley, Jr. She's going to join me for a Q&A at the end of that to talk about her family's legacy of horror. And you know, just as a quick side note, that's been one of the most gratifying things since the book came out was so many members of the Lemley family reached out to me and they were so happy about the book because many of them knew Junior late in life.

He lived all the way almost into the 80s. So they were, you know, they were very happy to see him getting this attention, you know, which I feel he deserves. And they felt he would have loved the book and all of that. And just as a quick side note, also, almost none of them really knew the family's history with Universal, which was so fascinating because I talk about this in the presentation. In the 30s, they lose the studio. So if you think about it, all of these, it's a very large family. about it, all of these, it's a very large family. And all of these people later who didn't know them at the time who were younger, they said that they never talked about it because to Carl Lemley, senior and junior, it was a business they lost. So, you know, we look at it now, my God, if I had anything to do with the founding of Universal, that's all I talk about it. They said he never

talked about it because it was kind of a sore spot. So, you know, I feel that also has contributed to why he hasn't gotten the acclaim that he deserved for really being the person who got all of this started. Yeah. Well, I'll have links to your website and people can kind of see what you're up to. And if you're in the LA area, you have these events coming up in September and October. It seems to have really hit a nerve with people and they're really enjoying hearing about this history. Maybe, like you said, a little forgotten history that you're able to bring a spotlight back on. Yeah, no, the presentation, I try to make it really fun. And if you see the notes, you know, there's a little bits of it that people have put up. You know, I try to make it

entertaining because, you know, that's why we like those films. They're fun. They're entertaining. And Junior had an exciting life. I mean, this is a 21 year old in the 20s, late early 30s running a movie studio. How can that not be a fun story? And so I try to tell it in that context, you know, and I've been very pleased. And, you know, I want to do as many of the presentations as I can. It's really fun for me and for the audience. Well, Julian, this has been a fun conversation. And like I said, I highly recommend the book for people who kind of enjoy a fictionalized version of these stories and insights. And it's a quick read. It's a fun read and perfect for this time of year as we enter the horror season of October. So thanks for coming on the podcast. Oh, thank you. It's been great chatting with you. Just a blast. Well, that was a really fun conversation with writer Julian Stone. As mentioned,

I'll have links to his book and his website in the podcast show notes, so you can order it there and get more information on his appearances that are coming up. If you're on social media, be sure and follow the show on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram to continue the conversation and to be a part of our community. And check out our YouTube channel as we are posting more videos there all the time, including this conversation with Julian Stone. And if you're a fan of Warner Brothers, you're invited to a new Facebook group called the Warner Archive and Warner Brothers Catalog Group. So look for that link on the Facebook page or in the podcast show notes. Until next time, you've been listening to Tim Millard, stay slightly obsessed. The Extras is a production of Otaku Media,

producers of podcasts, behind the scenes extras, and media that connects creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals at www.otakumedia.tv or look for the link in the show notes.