The Extras - Oppenheimer & the Case for Physical Media

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

Producer Jason Hillhouse joins the podcast for a discussion of the summer blockbuster OPPENHEIMER, directed by Christopher Nolan.  Now approaching one billion in worldwide box office, the film is a testament to the power of evocative filmmaking. Jason produced the extras documentary on the physical media release, THE STORY OF OUR TIME: THE MAKING OF OPPENHEIMER. He shares stories from the set and some of the many things he learned about the filmmaking process that make this film such a compelling visual experience.  OPPENHEIMER has also been a huge physical media success, with the 4K selling out on the release date.  We discuss how the film is an example of the relevance of physical media at a time when the studios seem to be losing faith in the medium.  Purchase on Amazon:OPPENHEIMER 4KOPPENHEIMER SCRIPTAMERICAN PROMETHEUS BookThe Sitcom StudyWelcome to the Sitcom Study, where we contemplate the TV shows we grew up with and...Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify The Extras Facebook pageThe Extras Twitter Warner Archive & Warner Bros Catalog GroupOtaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals. www.otakumedia.tv

Hi, I'm film historian and author John Fricke. I've written books about Judy Garland and the Wizard of Oz movie, and you're listening to The Extras. Hey, it's Tim Millard here, and today on the podcast, I have my good friend and Extras producer Jason Hillhouse joining us, and we're going to talk about the film Oppenheimer, which came out July 21st of 2023. And it's directed by Christopher Nolan. And it was a huge blockbuster hit. It's near the billion-dollar worldwide box office mark

and probably will surpass it. And we're in the pre-award season. And I think it's probably going to receive a lot of nominations and possibly win for Best Picture. It'll be right up there, I'm pretty sure. We're going to talk about the movie. If you haven't seen the movie, we will have spoilers. So be alerted for that

because we want to be able to talk about the movie that we both really enjoyed. And because Jason worked on the extras, he's going to give us background on some of the interviews that he did and visits to the set and things of that nature. So I'm sure we'll talk about the film and details that will give things away. So be aware of that in case you don't want to listen to the episode until after we've had a chance to watch the film. But I think you'll

enjoy our discussion. So I think one of the first things I was wondering, Jason, was when did you kind of first start working with uh christopher nolan oh my goodness our team kind of worked uh a group of us were working on batman begins cory watson and jeff learner and uh lisa blonde and um you know a lot of a lot of folks on that first Batman Begins, you know, DVD, EPK stuff. And I produced a piece and did some interviews and whatever. But the first sort of solo thing I did was the good old HD DVD stuff. The big picture in picture kind of stuff that Batman Begins. Then, yeah, it just kind of evolved from there. We didn't work on the Prestige because

that was Disney and we weren't doing a whole lot of Disney stuff at the time. But from Dark Knight on, I've been lucky enough to be asked back. Every time I feel like this could be the last one, but

so far so good, so good. Knock on knock on wood. I've been lucky enough to watch this extraordinary filmmaker do what he does. I mean, it's an impressive, impressive run of films that he's had. And I mean, I go back to Memento and I've been so impressed with just everything he's done. Prestige, I really enjoyed Prestige as well. I was just looking at IMDb just to remind myself. And then I'm looking through my shelves. I'm like, I know I have all of these films, but I don't, not quite all of them. My brothers did a cool 4K release after – was it after Dunkirk or after Tenet? I can't remember. Kind of when 4K first kind of kicked in, they did a box set release of a bunch of his movies. And I don't know.

I don't even remember who owns the rights to Memento or whatever. But we did a 10-year anniversary just, it was really just him talking. We typically cut me out of, of, of our conversations, but yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a remarkable run. I mean, even right all the way, I don't know if you've ever seen following, but when you think about that movie and the way that they made that movie kind of like shooting one day a week just with friends on 60 mil over the course of like a year or so.

And the fact that it's as complete and, and feels like, like a movie, you know, like a lot of people's first movie, you can see, you know, the seams and the, and it's, it's a, it's an amazing debut. I think it's on criterion i think but i'm not sure yeah if you haven't seen that check it out it's it's it's really good too yeah it's it's available you know like on amazon to buy the blu-ray or whatever but lion's gate i believe is memento so you have a few different studios involved and I don't know is this the first time he's been with Universal? Yeah

he's done most of his films there with Warner Brothers of course when I was there working you know he would come into the floor everybody of course was very excited the days when he would come in because he has always been very active and very supportive of the physical media release. Good and bad of that

is that of course, when he's active, he wants it done his way and everybody else has to kind of revolve around that world and his schedule. So if he was working on the film late and people couldn't get access to masters or something, obviously you would know all about this. You're cutting and trying to kind of anticipate things and going right down to the wire. But you would always want that. You always want somebody who knows what they want and will then publicize and promote and put their efforts into making it something that people want to buy. One of the reasons why, when you said you were working on this release of Oppenheimer, that I thought it would be great to have you on the podcast, was because this is a great example of why physical media matters.

I mean, I know the 4K sold out. And of course, Universal quickly tried to get more, but they had to put out a message. Hey, we're trying to get more out but they had to put out a message. Hey, we're, we're, you know, we're trying to get more out there into the distribution pipeline. Yeah. That's unheard of nowadays, right? Like, I mean, it's, it is a gift. It really is for a filmmaker to care that much. Not, you know, I mean, they, they are obviously hyper-focused on making their films and and you know that's that's a huge undertaking just making a movie is is you know it's it's impossible and

then to actually you know a lot of times they approve stuff or watch stuff but there's some filmmakers that they're just like once they're done with the movie you know they may or may not even approve the dvd or the 4k master you, and the fact that, you know, Chris and Emma and Andy Thompson and, and everybody is so involved in, and it's so nice because it really, you know, we all up our game and also just the access, you know, that we have to the HODs and, and different things, you know, every, every filmmaker is different, um, in terms of the way they, they work on set with, you know, behind the scenes filmmaker is different in terms of the way they, they work on set with, you know, behind the scenes crews and things like that. But it's, it really is.

It's, it's a, it's a blessing that he cares that much. And I think he said recently something about how much he loves behind the scenes stuff on other people's movies. And we, we strike a great balance because he's got such a fan base and, you know, and I'm, I'm, I'm of the mindset to, you know, every movie, what we do, the documentary behind the scenes stuff, you know, you tailor make it for whatever the movie is or the filmmaker or, you know, there's not like just one way to do this stuff. Right. But you know, having parameters and knowing i don't i don't love

seeing all of the magic tricks like just laid out in front of me either you know what i mean i i like the sense of the behind the scenes stuff you know those early you know star wars things they would show on pbs or they'd show some of those you know john dykstra with the blue screens and the tie fighters and and and the matte paintings and some of those, you know, John Dykstra with the blue screens and the TIE fighters and the matte paintings and some of those things just captured my imagination just as a young film fan and as an older film fan. And, you know, there's a market for it. And I think people love not just the physical media and especially when a filmmaker puts the time in to make the movie look as good as it can possibly look at home. You know, obviously, Chris is a big proponent for seeing things in theaters and having that experience.

And he makes movies for that. But movies live on at home. And there's going to be generations of people that discover movies and they're not always playing in the theater, right? Like they have their window and sometimes they get re-released and things like that. But the home experience is really important, I think. And, you know, just kind of streaming has its purposes as well, you know, where there's, it's, I always equate those kinds of things like physical media to, you know, magazines. I like

reading a good quick magazine article, but I also like reading a novel, right? And there's room for both those things. I love, I love a good comic book and I love a good graphic novel, you know, like there's, there's a wide variety of things. And when everything becomes sort of this intangible, you know, music, super compressed or, you know, streaming movies and, and the, it's kind of stuttering or it's kind of not the quality that you want it to be, or, you know what I mean? Like those kinds of things. Yeah. There's some things that you want it to be or you know what i mean like those kinds of things yeah there's some things that you just want to you want to see in in all of its glory and really take it all in and oppenheimer is a great example of with this cast it's just remarkable and and the imax and and the close-ups and seeing the details and the performances you know these actors

faces uh we hoita mentioned in the documentary something about, you know, shooting with IMAX, shooting these vistas, right? We're out in New Mexico and shooting these amazing sceneries, kind of what we imagine IMAX to be, big action sequences and stuff. And Chris's, he said his and Chris's take was, what about the face as a landscape? You know, all the actors talked about it, too. And you see it in the film. The face is a landscape. You know, all the actors talked about it too. And you see it in the film.

Killian's performance in particular, you know, Downey and Emily Blunt, like all those guys, the details, the twitches, the little twitches in their faces and just how much is going on in those performances is really, really captured so well in that 4K. Yeah. Well, I think that to what you were saying, my sense is that Christopher, obviously, the theatrical is the focus. That's the making of the film. And that's the way he wants people to receive it. And when you go to one of his films, you feel that. You feel that the utmost care and craftsmanship of Christopher and all of the people that make up a crew to produce these and make these films. That they want to make the best experience visually, like viscerally, audially.

They want to bring you into that world. And they're doing it as your documentary, which we'll get to in a bit, really hones in on, in the camera, on set, on location, because we know how that impacts the actors when they walk onto a set, when they're dressed in period, when they're doing everything right there, there's that performance, that energy, you know, and that comes together of doing something live and knowing that, look, this isn't just going to be taken care of later in some computer. We have to do this and we have to do it now and get the best. And you feel that, I feel that when you watch one of his movies. And then he has the appreciation and understanding

like you and I do that the next place where you want to have that same care and that same experience is at home. So you want to replicate on the smaller screen, of course, but in your own home, that same audio experience, that same visual experience. And then he also understands that you're creating a product. same visual experience. And then he also understands that you're creating a product and those extras, the behind the scenes, the featurettes, the interviews, the panels, anything that goes on, that's part of the package to get you to buy it. Yeah. To view it again and view it again, and then watch all these things and learn. And he understands that that only increases his fan base when he does it.

Stay with us. We'll be right back. understands that that only increases his fan base when he does that. Sure. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Hi, this is Tim Millard, host of The Extras Podcast. And I wanted to let you know that we have a new private Facebook group for fans of the Warner Archive and Warner Brothers Catalog physical media releases. So if that interests you, you can find the link on our Facebook page or look for the link in the podcast show notes. Well, and I think, you know, and hats off to Universal, of course, for just being so supportive of that. You know, I mean, it's a weird time, right? In the industry

and all the folks that I worked with directly and the folks that I worked with sort of indirectly and the folks that, you know, Chris worked with that I didn't work with, you know, whatever. But just everybody at Universal was so supportive of our behind the scenes stuff and what we were trying to do, you know, both pre-release and post-release for the documentary. And you need that, you know what I mean? You need, you need a filmmaker that cares about it, but you also need the studio to, to, to get behind that idea and, and see the value in it. And they, they really did. They really, they really stepped up and I'm, I'm just, I'm super proud of the, of the whole, the whole package on, on the 4k, you know, the, I didn't, it wasn't all my thing obviously or whatever, but the, the parts that I had to do with, I'm just,

I'm really proud of the, of the home. I wouldn't call it home video. I don't know what, what you'd call it anymore, but the, but the home release of, you know, of the film and, and just getting to play any kind of part in it, it was, uh, is, is really something I'm really proud of. Well, before we get into a little bit of asking you about the making of that documentary. I did want to circle around a little bit just of the phenomenon that Oppenheimer is. And I say is because it's still continuing and it's being brought back to theaters over the holiday, I believe. I mean, it's so close to that billion dollar mark. It may have even achieved it by now because of the re-release. But I know it was at, what, $950 million worldwide.

So it's inching up there to that billion mark if it's not over it already. But a movie this complex, this long, a biopic of sorts. I mean, this is unheard of box office. And then coming out of the pandemic, it's been pretty difficult to get people in theaters to begin with. And this is not an easy story. This is not, you know, it's not just a popcorn movie. This makes you think it jumps around just like a lot of his movies do. It plays with time sequences. And he had little tricks with the black and white and otherwise to help you keep those separated. But what do you think is the reason why it's so connected with the public?

Tim, if we could answer that question, we would bottle that and you and I would both be on an island somewhere. Yeah, Chris would too. and I would both be on an island somewhere. Yeah. I mean, I think if anybody, if anybody could, could, could bottle that, I mean, just speaking for, obviously I'm only speaking for myself or any of this stuff, but I was certainly surprised. I mean, I knew, I knew it's a Chris Nolan movie, so automatically, you know, and I've worked on enough of them that I, it's going to be good. Like, you know, he's never made a bad movie, you know, so there's that confidence that, you know, it's going to be good. And he's got a, an incredible fan base. And to that point though, I think this is going to sound dumb in a way,

but for me, it restored my faith in a lot of the things, you know, that you and I talked about, oh, the home video thing did as well, right? Where there's groups of us, you know, on the far corners of the internet or, you know, having coffee together or whatever it is where we're like, physical media is fantastic. It's not dead. It's there's, there's a, there's a rabid fan base and it's the same sort of thing for this type of movie, right? You know, on paper with all of the algorithms that studios, you know, may or may not use to, you know, make new sequels and franchises and whatever it is, there's not going to be like an Oppenheimer cinematic universe, right? Like this is, this was a, this was a, an original story

from one of our greatest filmmakers. And there's an audience for that. And it's not just his rabid fan base. You know, those of us that are part of his rabid fan base, you know, saw it several times, but not that many times to, you know, it reached the net went really wide. And it really, it did, it restored sort of my faith in, you know, the last however many years where we've all gone into the pandemic and come out of the pandemic and everybody's like oh theaters are dead you know the same way they were like oh dvd's dead or whatever it is it's like no dude it's not and it's right but we needed somebody to prove that you know we needed something to something to show us that you know as much i i

i love all kinds of movies i love great movies good movies serious movies comedies comic book movies i love everything i'm a big comic book guy, but not at the expense of, you know, there needs to be room for everything. Again, it's kind of that magazine novel thing, right? Where I love to read a good magazine. I love to read a good novel. I like, I like all of it. I don't want everything to just be bite-sized magazine articles. And it, it did it really, I was like, it was just great to have the justification of what I've kind of been, my friends and I, and, you know, different people have been like, ah, cinema's not dead. They, people want to go to the movies. People love movies. Right.

And they don't just want to go to the movies. They, they want to be challenged. They want to see something they've never seen before. They want to, they want to be challenged. They want to see something they've never seen before. They want to see stories. I mean, movies are, you know, obviously relatively new in the space of world history, but we've always looked to stories and things like that from theater and the Greeks and all, you know. It's something that I think is important for all of us. And before this whole world goes down, the idiocracy, you know, the Mike Judge movie, you know, people are like, oh, it's a documentary. I'm like, oh, it might be. This is something that you point to and go, okay, wait, there's hope.

There's hope that there's definitely a lot of like-minded people that, that want to see these types of movies and want to want to own physical media of, of these types of stories. I don't know what it is other than it's nice to be able to every once in a while point and be like, yeah, I knew it. I knew what I told you. So, you know, I'm going to point to a couple of things, just get your opinion. But I think one thing is trust. And that might sound strange, but I think people trust Christopher Nolan. They trust that it's going to be thoughtful. They trust that it's going to be entertaining.

And they trust that it's going to be an exceptional experience. And I think they also feel the same way about the physical media product of his movies. It's going to be an exceptional audio and visual experience when you are at home. And I think that trust is really, it's not something you can measure on a survey, you know, or some kind of a focus group or thing of that nature. a focus group or a thing of that nature. What it is, it's built over 20 years, 30 years of a career that you say, huh, not a film I would necessarily have penciled that I would go see a film about Oppenheimer because you've seen documentaries, you've seen other stories about him. It's not an unknown story. And I think in the documentary, Chris even says his 16-year-old son was like, I don't know, dad. Yeah, right. People are going to be that interested in.

It's so crazy because, I mean, growing up in the 70s and the 80s, and particularly the 80s, I mean, maybe just because that's when I was a teenager you know in the 70s it was a little more carefree or something but i mean that was just such a thing like that was such a thing and there was all these movies and all these songs and genesis with land of confusion and sting with russians and it was it was just so in pop culture you know that even tv movies like the day after tomorrow or you know like this it was such a thing right red dawn and um war games and you know all these pop culture big things in the 80s it was such a such a thing and it yeah it hasn't gone away i mean it's still like nothing nothing has changed other than we just all stopped worrying about it because i mean look if you if we sat and really thought about it all the time chris said it we just go you go crazy you

know like just you know you have to live your life a little bit but it's something that we can't just ignore i mean it's still very much a very much a thing and it's a it's a amazingly for events that happened 80 years ago 50 50 years ago, you know, ongoing throughout the course of that movie, these, the story, there's so many things in that story that are still so, so relevant today. And, and I think that struck a chord, I mean, certainly with me and I would imagine other audience, you know, people worldwide. I would imagine other audience, you know, people worldwide. Well, I guess when I think of the other big movie of 2023, historically, that people are going to always remember from a box office standpoint, and that's Barbie.

I think to myself, okay, Barbie sounds like a concept that if it's done, you know, well, should be a popular movie, should be a popular movie. It should be a mainstream movie. It should do pretty well. Not every, as we know, game and toy movie adaptations don't always do well. But it feels like it has a safer floor, right? It feels like, okay, I think we can try to market this to families and so on and so forth. And then you watch that movie and you see that it actually took quite a few risks.

Yeah. And that's probably why it went from just being a okay movie to really doing well because it did take those risks. But I think of that and I'm like, okay, if I was a studio, I would feel a little more comfortable maybe taking on that risk. Not, of course, if you believe in the director, Christopher Nolan, which all the studios do. So that's not going to be unique to Universal, but it was a great partnership. The fact that kind of blows my mind is just how well it did. I mean, if it had done 500 million worldwide, I think people would have been very, very exceptionally happy, especially in these times. But to be up at that billion

dollar mark, I mean, that's just, that to me is phenomenal. And there's a lesson to be learned there. I don't know what that is exactly, other than when I point to what I say, kind of like a trust. And the fact that people know they're going to have a unique experience when they go to see this movie, it's not going to be a retread. It's not going to be a franchise burnout kind of scenario that the studios, do you feel like they're forcing down your throat or anything? And the other thing is, is because it's not part of a franchise, because it's a one-off, all the negatives become the positive. This is your only chance to see it. You're not going to see these characters again in another movie next year. There's no multiverse to go with this.

This is it. It's all hacked into these three hours. So that makes it unique. And it makes it something that you then want to own uniquely. Yeah. moon uniquely. You know, it's a real case for physical media, as we, as you mentioned earlier, because of how it's just been embraced by the fans. So, well, we should probably talk about your documentary. It's a, it's a beast because it covers everything. It's split up into, into segments, but it's fantastic. Thanks, man. I sat there and I watched, I didn't even have to

stop and go get popcorn or anything in between because it was fascinating to watch. Well, thank you. I'm glad, uh, I'm glad you enjoyed it. That's, I mean, we, you know, uh, one of the things I want to do and the, just by the nature of the people involved and, and everybody was super cool. I mean, everybody usually, you know, Chris doesn't work with people that aren't nice people, you know, which is great for me because I'm interviewing all these people and they're all, they're all extremely nice, but I wanted it to be entertaining and informative, right? Like that was our goal. Andy Thompson is, is, uh is works with chris and and he he works with me on these things and then you know i had a team editor amir sogri and ryan

mcterio and we we uh really that was kind of one of the things is finding finding moments where it's you know it's not a big because it's a big super serious subject matter in the movie anyway and you know there's there's moments of levity in the movie and stuff like that. And we wanted to kind of reflect like we do with any movie. Like every, like I said before, every one of these things is kind of unique and we want them to feel like part of the movie in terms of when it goes on a package. You know, it's not like, oh, now it's time for some wacky gag reels or something that, you know, like for Oppenheimer is not really what you're looking to do. There's unique stories to tell, but we also, you know, want people that it's not just a big history lesson or something. We want it to be entertaining and show. And a lot of these people, they're great. You know, the cast was fantastic. All the HODs are fantastic.

And these are really funny, interesting, creative people. And we wanted to try to give everybody room to shine. Had you worked with some of them before? Because it feels like he keeps a lot of the same least department heads. Yeah, yeah, sure. There were some new, there were some new people this time and they were all game. You know, I mean, Ruth Dijon, bless her heart, you know, is showing up to set early so that she can walk me and our cameraman, Simon, first around the sets of Los Alamos. You know, she didn't have to do that. You know, like that, that was, that was really, you know, she really spent a lot of time. Yeah.

All the guys, Andrew Jackson, Scott Fisher, like I met them before and on other, other projects and stuff. So, yeah, some of the people we knew before and some of them were new. I find this a lot on certain projects and a lot of, you know, obviously a lot of Chris's projects, but everybody's just happy to be there. They're excited.

They know they're working toward making something special. I was just talking to the casting director the other day, and we're talking about just the quality of actors that they pulled in. I mean, you know, it's a Chris Nolan movie, so, you know, people, you know, are happy to show up. But just remarkable that, you know, people come in for like a day or come in for two days. You know, these like, you know, big actors that are doing and not in a overexposed cameo way, but in a very real part of an ensemble sort of way.

And everybody was just excited and happy to be there. And then we're happy, fortunately for me, happy to talk about it when we did our interviews. You know, having worked on these, when I watch them, I probably have like a baseline of, well, you know, you have to talk to the, these people and you, you, you want to get these people and then hopefully you'll get some more and some more voices. And when it turns out really well, you've had a nice robust amount of people from different parts of the film, not just the producers. When you only have the producers doing 80% of the talking, you know that it was, it was difficult to get everybody else. Either they had flown the coop

and the film was over and they were now onto their next project, or you just didn't have the budget to get on set, you know, various reasons. But it did feel like in this one, at the beginning, the first two or three segments, there's a lot, of course, with Christopher and Emma. You know, they tell the story of the origin and beginning, which is fascinating. But then as it goes, you've got all the different department heads. You've got a lot of the actors in there. So there's a tremendous amount of variety. That's why it's just entertaining throughout the whole piece, because you're not seeing the same face, hearing the same voice 30, 40 minutes into this. You're actually hearing from the department heads,

you're seeing them at the visual effects and the special effects. I mean, that's a fascinating collaboration that they did. And you're hearing from some of the IMAX people. I mean, there's just so much there that you were able to get, which is fantastic. So tell me a little bit about that whole process. Did you get to New Mexico a few different times or did most of this happen after? No, I mean, it's a mix of both, right? On this one, we don't go every day. It's not one of those types of deals, but we were there a lot on set. Simon and I kind of, for the most part, our little two person, you know, band, our little crew and bless his heart. He had to basically live with me for months on end.

And my wife will tell you that's not an easy thing to do. But we, yeah, we were in New Mexico and all over New Mexico, right? Like there's different, different places that, you know, because where they built Los Alamos was, you know, way out from Santa Fe. And then where the Trinity test stuff was, was a couple hours back the other way. And so we were all over New Mexico. And then we went to New Jersey for the Institute of Advanced Studies stuff where Einstein was. And then actually in Los Alamos i'm sorry i jumped back to new

mexico but actually in los alamos and some of those places where i mean really where that stuff took place right like the cooler lodge and oppenheimer's actual house right where he lived while he was in and just unbelievable you know and talking to you know killian and emily and and and stuff about that and just what that how that helps their performance you know, Killian and Emily and, and, and stuff about that. And just what that, how that helps their performance, you know, like, I mean, these are, these are professional actors that are used to green screens. We're going to make it happen and it's going to work or, you know, big elaborate cool sets or volumes or what, you know, whatever it is. But, uh, there's something, there is something special about sometimes being in the real place. Tom Conti played Einstein, got a big kick out of walking around IAS,

looking like he did, you know, and people kind of double takes out of him and stuff. And he, he had a, he had a good time with that. And then, then we shot around kind of LA areas and stuff like that a little bit for, for our part of it. Like I said, we weren't there every day, but we were there, we were there quite a bit. You know, they were, everybody was very, you know, generous and open, especially considering I hate, I don't, they're making a movie, right? These, these people are trying to make this movie. They're trying to make as good a movie as they can. And I don't want to be a distraction. You know, we don't want to be, you know, we need an actor on set and we're over here doing some kind of standup and stuff.

And there's some sets that, you know, where the director is like way into that and we want to you know do that and and that's fine too but just a person me personally i just we kind of want to just be on the outside looking in you know what i mean like i i tend to like the more of the fly on the wall sort of thing than the hey we're right up here in the you know right up here in their faces and stuff and it's a it's a it's perspective, you know, to be able to watch these things unfold in that way. But yeah. And then people were very generous with their time while we were on set, the actors, you

know, taking time to do interviews. And I can't tell you how many times, you know, you, you get an actor and, and, you know, it's not, it's not always their favorite thing to do right like they're they're trying to make again they're trying to make a movie but they're also like oh we're doing another interview for what you know whatever it's epk time or it's behind the scenes time or whatever it is and they're okay okay and they'll you know give you five minutes hey no no we'll be right back and then you never see him again or things like that yeah but but these guys were so generous with their time in fact one day i'll tell you a quick story just to sing his praises matt damon sat with me we did 15 20 minutes

or whatever and uh he got called you know he had to go back to set and he's like are you finished are you you know you're good and i'm like oh dude we'll make it work it's fine what if you need me to come back i'm like dude if you if you could I've got a few more. Yeah, sure. But we're fine. Honestly, we're, you know, whatever. And, and they were like, okay, Matt's going to come back. I'm like, he's not coming back. I mean, I'll blame him. I wouldn't go back. You know what I mean? Like I did it. I'm done. You know, I checked it off my list. I've, I've done my, he came back, you know, a couple hours later and he came back. All right, what else we got? You know?

And, and it, that's nothing to do with how charming I am. It's just how much these guys are invested in this in this in this project we're we're really really going the extra mile to um they're just happy to be there and excited to talk about it yeah very very cool and and i mean all the all the all the main actors i mean i i wound up interviewing them several times you know we like we did it on set and we did some of the hod stuff on set and we you know um andrew jackson scott fisher were so cool about letting us go into the the visual effects tent and that was fantastic oh so great and you know we we tease stuff but we didn't want to give away everything you know like but we're like here's the kind of stuff they were doing but we didn't really

want to you know we don't want to ruin the movie for anybody right right um well i think i think it's so nice to let us do that and ruth giving us tours of the set and just you know everybody was super super generous but then after the fact to your long-winded way of answering your question we did interviews after the fact with everybody and a lot of times i like to do with especially with some of the actors it's cool to do both like while they're kind of in it and i mean you need a lot of that stuff for pre-release pieces and stuff anyway but but after they've seen the movie then you have a different perspective you know you have a little bit of distance from it so it's cool to kind of get to get both i mean i think they were probably all sick of seeing me at some point, but, uh, I did notice that I, uh, obviously they're in costume, they're in period.

So I could see those were the interviews that you did, you know, on set. Yeah. And those that you shot in this empty stage was going to be later. And I agree with you. I love getting the combination and the studio needs both of course. Yeah. Because when you're in it, you haven't seen the finished product. So those actors, they're just in the scene. They're just in the midst of whatever it is they're filming. But there's also an immediacy to their character that might start to fade a little later. So you get that from them and you get the kind of uncertainty. But later on, then you get the perspective and what that experience was like. Even in this case, like I read the script, you know, a few times I was there a lot for filming and, you know, watching them make the movie and, you know, all that stuff.

Then seeing the movie, I had a whole new set of, you know, like I, it was, it was the best of, of all the worlds, you know, we don't always get that, you know, like sometimes you just get what you get on set or sometimes you don't get to go on set and having, having the opportunity to kind of have that whole thing. And that only happens because of, of the studio support and of the filmmakers and the actors and everybody being so generous with their time. But it, to me, it makes it a much better, a better viewing experience for people at home for the documentary. Yeah. And this is not a movie where you're talking about how they did CGI or things of that nature, but because they did practical things such as filming with these pretty huge IMAX cameras and then doing effects in the camera itself. You're showing that behind the

scenes. That's pretty fascinating stuff. But because they're talking about it, you're not giving away, as you said, you're not giving away any secrets that they're not willing to share. They're like, hey, look, this is what we did, but it took hours, days, weeks of experimentation. We just did it in camera. How does it look? Slow it down. Speed it. And I can't remember which one of the gentlemen said, I just wanted to shoot it as fast as

possible so I could determine if it's a road we should continue to pursue and go down and have Christopher take a look, say, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's something. Keep working on that. And so you were able to capture that by being on set. They could have told the story afterwards, but then you wouldn't have gotten the B-roll of them actually doing it and them opening up

for you guys to go in there and film them and everything. Well, it was such a cool, unique partnership that those guys had with the visual effects and the special effects, really working hand in hand in in such a and that's you know a lot of times you sit down you do these these interviews with people and everybody's like oh everybody was great and everybody got along and it was so collaborative and you're like yeah okay whatever and no i was there i saw what it were but in this case it's all true and and everybody to a T, unprompted by me, everybody really, really helped each other out in the spirit of collaboration. I mean, obviously, work and some of the challenges that pop up along the way, you know, the plans coming to fruition or trying things and experimenting.

And it's just such a, it's just such a joy to be able to, to be able to watch, you know, as somebody who loves movies, you know, to watch that stuff come together. And, and those two guys were a great example of, of really, you know, everybody just checks their ego at the door and, and is there to just do the best work they can. And they're all happy and excited to be there. And that's just an example of those guys together did something really unique and special that, you know, if they'd been siloed off to do, okay, you're doing just this and you're doing just this that, um, you know, they're both excellent at what they do and it would have been very cool. But the fact that they got to work

that way, you know, excited them. They, you know, it made for something really unique and really special, I think. Yeah. The best behind the scenes just gives you a little bit more understanding of aha. I didn't realize when I'm watching the movie how that decision was such an important part of the storytelling. So why don't we revisit a couple of those? Tell me about the script because that was a unique story. Well, you, you, you referring to the, how he wrote it? I mean, in the first person and that kind of thing. Um, I mean, I, you know,

Saying there on camera, I've never read a script like that before. Well, let's see. That's the fun part for me. Right? Like, so I read it and I'm like like it took me a second and i'm i'm going back over and i'm like okay okay oh okay okay you know because it is it's it's i've never i i've read a lot of scripts i haven't read every script i don't know i can't speak to you know i don't know that anybody's ever done it quite like that before but it was uh to me and you And I think everybody talked about it in the documentary. Like it instantly set the tone of sort of this is going to be a very subjective thing. And Chris, you know, talked in the documentary about he wanted people to feel like they were in the room, right?

They're in the bunker with the guys. And that part of that's a large format part of the thing. But even in the script, sort of this, this very, this is this movie is called Oppenheimer. It's not called the Manhattan Project or, you know, whatever it is, or the Trinity test or what, you know, it's called Oppenheimer. And it's that's part of it, obviously a huge part of his story, but there's a lot going into it, which is why, you know, and I, you know, reading the book, American Prometheus, which is just a remarkable book, and it took those guys, good Lord, forever to write this thing. And it's a big, thick book, but it's riveting. And I was, my first takeaway was I was embarrassed about how much I didn't know about Oppenheimer and, oh, yeah, and the Trinity, Trinity, okay. I know what that is. Like you said, you know, before there's been movies and documents, but how much of that story I didn't know. And then I was like, well, what's wrong with the American school system? It's not my fault.

I'm not, I'm not that dumb, but just how amazing, amazing a life and what a rich story it was going to be, you know. But yeah, I'd never seen that. And nobody that I talked to had seen anything quite like that either. I'm not exactly sure what. I wouldn't speak for him. I don't know what, you know, compelled him to do it. But it was amazingly effective as a read.

You know, and I think that the scripts for sale, you know, you can buy it on Amazon or whatever at this point. It's a very, very interesting read. And because you obviously don't know, you read, it says black and white or color in the script, but the changing from the first person to the third person serves the purpose reading it that it does when it goes to color and black and white when you watch it. So it's, you know, it's a, it's a very effective, to me, it was a very effective read in my opinion.

Well, that's not the type of thing you would necessarily know upon watching the movie. Of course, the script is, is the script, the screenplay is the screenplay and the movie is the movie. But when you go to saying what the behind the scenes of this movie is, it can often start with the script. And this being in that first person, which is unusual, you know, the cast, when they read it, it was shocking to them. When you read it, it was shocking to other people. But it had this ability to draw people in and help them visualize what this film could be. And I think that in and of itself is a terrific, you know, writing task to be able to accomplish. But then when it gets to the to the film, you know, you're obviously going to use the camera to do all of the storytelling.

There's one thing for me to say that, you know, like nobody cares. You know, Jason thought it was cool. Who cares? for me to say that, you know, like nobody cares, you know, Oh, Jason thought it was cool. Who cares? But when, you know, again, my job is now talking to these people, Killian Murphy or, you know, Robert Downey Jr. or, you know, Hoyta or, you know, any of these people, when they say it, you know, when they're like, wow, this was something really unique and different. And this kind of inspired, you know, lit a spark in me about what we should do and what, you know, that's, you know, that's, that's my job there is to, you know, get that across because,

you know, then hopefully people see the movie before they watch the documentary. That's always a thing. I'm like, well, we don't do like spoilers, like crazy, you know, or anything like that. But there's also, you know, it's behind the scenes. So if you're watching a behind the scenes thing before you've seen the actual movie, then you deserve to have it ruined for you. But hopefully then you go back and watch the movie again after you watch the documentary armed with some new knowledge and, you know, perspective of kind of what, you know, the actors and the filmmakers and things that we're thinking. And you appreciate the movie. And like you said earlier, like in a little bit of a deeper way.

And I got to tell you, especially for a three hour movie, this movie has gotten better every time I've seen it. I've seen it a few times now. And I, I really love the movie, which is a nice thing to be able to say because I can only say that on things that I work on. But I really love this movie. And I, it really does, in my opinion, reward repeated viewings. I totally agree.

I, you know, getting the 4K, thanks to you, I rewatched it because when I watched it, as much as I knew about the story and as much as I found it extremely complex. I'm like, what? Okay, I'm trying to follow. There's a lot of characters. You're in different decades. There's a lot going on, which of course stimulates your mind because you're trying to stay up to speed with it. But you don't have that on the second viewing or if you're watching it at home, you don't have that on the second viewing, or if you're watching it at home, you don't have that kind of intensity because you have now seen it once or twice before. So you kind of are able to follow the story a little bit better. And that repeat viewing helps with that. I watched the behind the scenes documentary before I did that. So, but I can't say- Because you'd already seen the movie. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm saying- You're one of those smart people. So, but I can't say- Because you'd already seen the movie.

Oh yeah, yeah. I'm saying- You're one of the smart people. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. But I felt that there were only a few instances and I'll tell you exactly what they were. One was when I saw some of the, you know, he's laying in the bed and he's visualizing atoms or space or whatever he's visualizing. And I remembered, oh, okay, those were practical effects done in camera. That was a minor thought. When I first watched it, I assumed those had been added by CGI later on. But that's just like an interesting side note.

The impact of it had nothing, no difference. But the other one that kind of did, which was the black and white. Now that I know the story that they actually didn't have black and white footage, they had to invent it, create it for this film. And I was looking and I was remembering what I think Christopher said about this black and white footage is like, it blows you away with the clarity of that black and white. And it's not something you could have shot in color and turn to black and white. Like you see that black and white footage. It's a, it's just plain beautiful. I want to see a whole film shot in that footage now.

Right. It's, it's crazy. Whoa. The thing this movie, too, and, you know, again, from my vantage you know there's a degree of difficulty across the board uh the costumes um you know how much thought went into the and the editing and um you know all of these things and they're not it's not a big showboaty you know the acting this isn't some giant show off you know i mean emma i think says in the documentary about how you know the acting this isn't some giant show off you know i mean emma i think says in the documentary about how you know killian does so much and so little and the and the other actors just marveling at how like matt said calibrated you know his performances but that's what makes it so you know they they make it all look so effortless so much so many of these things that what we wanted to do was show like look at what

went into this you know look at what uh the the degree of difficulty and it and it pays off the reason this movie works so well is because all of these people went the extra mile and did these things you know they could have taken these shortcuts and the fact that that film format didn't exist is unbelievable. You know, it's absolutely unbelievable. And across the board, you know, the people at Kodak and the photo cam and all the different people that came together that really believed in this. And the results are magical. I mean, it's remarkable. You know, especially if you got to see it in the theater.

And I think, but I think the transfer is gorgeous too. It is. Yeah. On my 4K monitor, that black and white looks amazing. Yeah. And then of course, the other thing that the documentary and Christopher's talked a lot about is the fact that they used IMAX, not for vistas, though there are some of those in the film, of course, of New Mexico and other, but for the closeup. And it hadn't dawned on me in seeing the film in the theater, the

impact that that has, that the IMAX, to your point on the expressions on the faces, just the subtlety. expressions on the faces, just the subtlety. But because it's a story about really somebody who lives in their mind, a brilliant physicist, a theoretical physicist, how do you show that? You know, it's not something that just is easy to do. So by using the actor, that partnership between director and actor, to use the actor to express to emote and i i would will annoy my family and and anybody that is you know sadly enough having to watch this movie with me at home because i'll i keep pausing i mean look watch this what you know these little you know watch down his eye twitch right there it's unbelievable like you know how it's capped you know just things like that like watch killian you know just the way he closes his eyes the timing and the way you know i feel like john

madden you know with the with the telestrator you know i want to circle things about this is so cool and and no one will sit and do that with me which is probably for the best but but no you're right i mean it shows you know and and hoyt is and chris's vision for how this movie should be shot is remarkable, I think. I mean, it just, it really is. It captures so much and it brings the audience in in such a really visceral way. It's a great movie. Well, going all the way back to the beginning of our conversation, we were explaining, hey, this is a physical media release that really shows the case for why when you get the right movie, the right

filmmaker that people want to own, and it shows that physical media is far from dead. When you get the care and the right film into the product, people will want to buy it. They're going to want to step up. They're going to want to buy it in the highest quality. And that's why it's done so well in 4k, I think is because of being filmed in IMAX and, and the picture looking so wonderful. They spent a lot of time, you know, I wasn't involved with that obviously, but they spent a lot of time. You know, Chris cares a lot about it and they, they, they all spend a lot of time getting that home video master as, you know, good as, as it could be, you know, sound and video. And I think people kind of across, I haven't read a lot of reviews or I haven't seen a lot of stuff. I've just, you know, we're super busy, but it sounds

like that, you know, people are responding to that too, and are appreciating that, the time and care that went into that. Well, Jace, we've talked this movie left and right and up and down, and it's been fun. So I really appreciate you carving out the time to do that. It's a great documentary for a great movie. And the physical media release is fantastic. Obviously, you and I both will highly recommend it to people who are interested in the in the film and uh so thanks for coming on thanks so much for giving me a chance to to I'm I'm very excited about this in particular you know like I've been I've had a really fortunate career and worked on a lot of things that I very you know geek out about very excited about or whatever but this

this is this is a this is a highlight for me personally. So just, you know, you having me on really means a lot. And we're really, we're really proud of it. And I'm just really grateful to everybody in Universal and obviously Chris and Emma and Andy Thompson and everybody that we got to be a small part of it. So, hey, that was quite the discussion with Jason. He's a great guy, tremendous professional, and he carved out some time between working on different things for the Oppenheimer film. Even though it's been out, the physical media release has been out,

there's so much more that still is being done with that film because of the awards season. So I appreciate him carving time out of his schedule for that on a Friday night at six o'clock. He's going to go back to work because he still has more things to deliver. So I hope you enjoyed the episode. And if you did, be sure and follow or subscribe at your favorite podcast provider. Until next time, you've been listening to Tim Millard.

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