The Flop House - FH Mini 91 - Best Horror Villains, Part 1

Episode Date: October 14, 2023

Stuart leads Dan and Elliott in a discussion ranking the iconic horror movie villains -- and the conversation was so fruitful, we decided to split it in two parts, with the second to come later this Shocktober!Check out FLOP TV! You can buy tickets here!Donate to the Entertainment Community Fund, to support those still affected by the SAG/AFTRA strike. To get our exclusive discount off your NordVPN plan + 4 months for free- go to https://nordvpn.com/flophouse - It’s completely risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee!"

Hey, hey, this is another almost turned into return to innocence on the pure moot CD. So, you know, the 90s as we were before we started recording. Hey, this is a Fallen Love House mini, which is a shorter episode of our podcast instead of our regular episode where we review a bad movie and talk about it. And one of these we're going to do whatever we want. And this time, Stuballs is driving the car now just to pull back the curtain a little bit. Stuballs over here is getting over 24 hour bug. And I spent most of the day in bed, uh, and drinking broth and tea, which sounds lovely,

but in reality, not that so great. That's right. 24 hours watching the movie bug over and over and over. Oh, my. Oh, wait, hold on. I, sorry, we stumbled into it. I have to tell you, I finally had the local Brooklyn experience of seeing Michael Shannon somewhere.

Oh, cool. We're speaking of book. I, I was coming back from Fort Green on the G train and there he was on the platform and some sort of bowling shirt with like a horse on it. And that's like, that's like a Shannon. Was he reading a book? Was he scrolling through his iPod? Many were scrolling through his phone.

I don't want to get too much into what, you know, you know, he's a man. He's a human man. I don't want to get too much into what, you know, you know, he's a man. He's a human man. I don't want to report too much on his. So he was looking at porn on his phone. Yeah. I think it was. Yeah. So there's been another installment of Dan McCoy Popper-Rotso. But I got who's the interruptor now, dog. Sorry. I get my TMZ in there. Now he's a classic, a classic Brooklyn experience, which is true. I believe it was the Lenape native peoples who first spoke of Michael Shannon being sighted among the trees in what is now, Modern Day Brooklyn. Yeah, he was mistaken for a big foot, much like his hit film, whatever that big foot

that Sasquatch Christmas one that we watched. Yeah. And you know, it's, a legend says that he carved the buttermilk channel by dragging his axe. He was so tired one day. Oh, yeah, that's great. Oh, that's good. Local Brooklyn stuff.

Okay, so. So it's important. It's cool that LA brings up myths and legends because as I should we introduce ourselves or do we go into what you're going to do? I mean, if they're still listening, they probably will be a horror. Good point. Good point. Okay. No, that's fair. We are professionals. So let's keep it super professional dudes. I'm Stuart Wellington and joining me are Dan McCoy.

And I'm Elliott Kaelin and the reason I wanted to bring up introductions is so that I could briefly mention I'll tell you more about it later in the show. Our October 19th show at Vitiates is coming up two shows in one night at Vitiates and LA and flop TV. The recording of our most recent episode is up to watch. I'll tell you more about how to get there later in the show. Sue, back to you. Okay, gang. So as I, I had you guys do a little preparation before this many. And that's because on

today's many, we are doing the definitive 2023 rankings of horror movie villains. That's right. This is the definitive for all this year, 2023. We'll revisit it next year, of course. So what we're doing is every year, every year we do definitive 2023 horror villains, which is why it's been hard up till this year to do it. Yeah, finally, we get to do it. Difficult because we didn't know what villains would actually be in the horror movies in 2023. But going forward to be me much easier because we're looking back rather than the fireworks. Yeah.

So as as a streetlister, you can see Elliott caught me slipping. He got me doing a little slip at the time. No, that's that's on me. It's fair. Fair's fair. I'll take my lumps. So your defense is extreme affability. Fair's fair, you know?

So we, uh, so we roll with the wave. He doesn't steal himself and get knocked over by the way. He rolls with it. Yeah. So today we're going to be ranking 14 of the most iconic horror movie villains. And we're going to be ranking them on three categories. And then we're going to be totaling up those scores. So we're going to see who is the 2023 ultimate horror villain. Okay. You guys excited? Yeah. Obviously. You have an opportunity. In addition

to giving your, your score, you're also going to be able to make a little bit of an argument to defend your case. So we're, of course, going to be ranking our horror movie villains as I explained you previously in three categories. The first is scaryness. That's okay. These are on a scale of one to 10, one being least 10 being most. So scaryness, star power. Okay. And then finally, lucky dip, which will be a random category determined by you guys. I love it. Okay, and it's going to be different for each, for each villain. Okay. So the, so why don't we get started, when we get started with one of the smallest, but certainly not least horror villains. That's right. Chuckie from the child's play franchise. Okay. Do you guys have a experience with Chuckie? Have you seen any of the child's play movies or maybe the television show or maybe purchase

any dolls? I believe that at this point, I have seen, except for three maybe, but I think maybe I have, I just keep forgetting it because two and three are kind of forgettable. I've seen all of the main line child's play films. Oh, okay, wow, that's pretty impressive. I feel like I've seen a handful. That's my answer, Elliott. I think I saw the, I've seen the first one, but it was a year ago, and I don't remember

it hugely, and I don't know that I ever saw any of the sequels or the television show. It was just not a series that particularly appealed to me. Hey, Brad Dorif, don't get mad, you're great, but the series just didn't appealed to me. Well, can I say, Elliott, that I, I, I was bristling when you say that? No, no, I don't look. I've given up trying to change anyone's mind about any pop culture thing, but I haven't given up on providing gentle nudges of my own opinion.

And that's to say that like one of the things that I really like about the Charlottes play series is Don Mancini. series is Don Mancini. He wrote the whole thing. All of the movies are by the same screenwriter. And he treats everything. Like the Star Wars Frequels, a silent quality. And he treats everything as canon. So it's just fun that like the movies start off serious, like get campier for a while and then get more serious again, but he still integrates the campy stuff into the film, like as if like, yeah, this is all just part of one big timeline. And there's a lot of twists and turns that are kind of

surprising in the series. That's all I say about it. Love it. That's a firm argument. So, now it's time for us to give us. I mean, the middle right now at home with watching a Kobayashi's humanist masterpiece, the human condition, which is a nine hour series. What? And I mean, maybe I'm going to do that. I'll pick up child's play where I left off with the child's play too. And then get right with that series. Yeah.

I mean, who's to say who's living life more correctly? I would argue there's time for both in life. Okay, so first we're going to start with scaryness guys. One to ten, where does Chuckie fall? I'd like to give Chuckie two scores on this. One, me as a child, and two, me currently as an adult. I'm going to say no. As an adult, I'm going to give Chuckie like a two. It's not that scary to me. He's an easily overpowered small doll. But as a kid, that would be a 10

plus. I found him so scary. And there was a cardboard standee, a much larger than life-sized cardboard standee, in the video store where I was a kid of Chuckie. And when that movie first came out on VHS, and I was so frightened by it, I thought just the image of him was so scary. And so as a kid, I would say super frightening, but as an adult, I'm gonna give him a two. Okay, Dan, scaryness. This is tough because I would say that Chuckie has undergone- Give him three scores. Give him three different scores. No, I'm not gonna do it.

Really make you do it, man. I know Chuckie has undergone a process of Freddie Crugrization over the years where he becomes like the wacky protagonist of his own series. And once that happens, you get less and less scary. But I did find the original child's play really scary when I first saw it. So I'm going to give him a six. I think the thing that really puts me off about Chuckie is the same thing I found scary as a kid, which is his total mean-spiritedness.

He is so mean, and he's so, like, just, there's nothing. I'm like the sweet killer doll. Well, no, but I mean, there's a certain kind of, like, I mean, my type of killer, and I'm sure he'll show up in this ranking, is more of a like, hulking silent, you know, Jason type. But the maybe he'll show up in the rankings, who knows, but there's something about Chuck E that is just so like vulgarly mean. Like he's just to make like the kind of person we're completely without without the wit of a Freddie Krueger is just saying mean and insulting things to people while he kills

them and like being rough and abusive. And that's really frightening to me. So yeah. I'm gonna and I'm gonna split the difference. I give Chuckie a solid five here because as you guys said, as a child, very scary, less scary as I become a massive muscular adult. Let's go on to a massive muscular adult. Yeah. Let's talk about MMA star star That was a master of muscular adults Just be the shit out of each other

Yeah, we're gonna get guts And so it's one step above the VMAs which is very muscular adults Yeah In a battle royale For best reason Oh, I guess the more sure that I guess I'm watching the VMAs. And that goes above TMI, which is two muscular infant. That infant is too muscular.

Yeah. What does he work it out with? I understand. What a piece of shit. Was he lifting his placenta? What's going on? What's in that formula? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, he's got me too. Oh my god. Oh my god. He looks bigger than me. We thought we were giving that baby formula. It's Cree-A-T. And the whole time, it's the Cree-A-T. Wow. Yeah, he's got me too. Oh my God. And if he looks bigger than me, we thought we were given that baby formula. It's Cree-A-T and the whole time it's the Cree-A-T. Wow, yeah, yeah. It's some off brand RIP fuel.

Okay. So let's blow the dust off the top of that. Above formula, it says, super-sulture. Oh no. Well, we shouldn't have been giving him the one with from the dusty bottle. That was that was for, that's our problem. Yeah, yeah, we shouldn't have be giving him the one with from the dusty bottle. That was that was that's our. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Well, that's our that's our mistake for being a hundred facts and having to get to the right formula. Okay. So that is that's going to be a scaryness. What about star power? How how much staying power as an image does Chuckie have one to 10?

I mean, it's you said you go first and you love this. I'm going to put them close to the top because I think that it's a pretty iconic looking monster. It's a very, you know, like all the bright colors and whatnot, but also like. Yeah, the thing every iconic monster has bright colors. Well, but also like. Yeah, the thing every iconic monster has, bright colors. Well, but that's like a part. The monkey or a tiger. You have a xenomorph, just bright psychedelic.

But beyond just the look, like, like a fresh piece of tropical, all these monsters. There's like eight mainline, Chuckie movies that as I say,, keep a continuity that makes sense. I'm like a lot of long-running horror franchises. Plus there's a reboot, plus there's like that Chuck E TV show, which I kind of want to check out because I think it is also Don Mancy. But I'll go with eight. Here's to the eye say, sorry, I wouldn't say. I was just going to say, solid score, Dan, I am with you.

I think it's an eight as well. Very really stands out, and obviously has lasted the test of time. Ellie, I'm going to say the same thing. Exactly. I was going to say eight personally, again, not that attracted to the idea of Chuckie or the, and I don't mean sexually attracted, just mean it. Not that dude. I mean, considering it, is that one of the ratings?

How much of a bonus are you? I mean, it should be later on, I assume. Could be in the lucky dip. Yeah. That the clearly, it doesn't appeal to me, but Chuckie has stood the test of time and has outlasted the kind of dolls that he was even a kind of part take on. So you got to give him a, I would say eight also, I got to give him a high mark for iconocity. Okay, and now here's the random category. And I'm going to let Dan pick a number, pick a number between one and 14. And that'll determine

what is the category we're ranking him on. Five. Five. Let me mark that down. Okay. Five would be, this is actually, I think he's going to crush this one on a scale of one to 10. How good do you think Chuck? He would be at hosting a morning show. Yeah. That's got to be a 10 very man. He's going to fucking crush it. He would be a very abusive again. Rough and abusive on his guests, but he did a great job. Yeah. I think another 10. I mean, it would be like an adult swim style morning show. Yeah, it's like the Eric Andre show. Yeah, very much so, yeah. Yeah, I would say the only, the, I feel like there would be some level of him putting people off with his meanness. So I'm going to give him a nine, but that's 10, 10, nine.

That's some good ass scores, Chuckie. That's going to be tough of me, but maybe somebody will. And I think, I think we have another heavy hitter for our second contestant. That's right. Michael Myers. He looks like William Schatter, but weirder. Michael Myers from the Halloween franchise. There's been a million of these.

I've only watched, I don't know, some of them and a lot of them are crappy. But let's see, let's see how good he ranks. So Michael Myers, have you guys, have you guys seen some of these Halloween movies? I have seen every Halloween movie except for number five. Oh, okay. Was there a reason why number five didn't? Well, I actually am planning on watching it soon because I just watched number four for the first time.

Basically, one through three all have their partisans. One's a classic. Two is like an okay follow up to that. And then three is like weirdo bonkers stuff that horror fans love. Yeah, it's the best one. And then later on, you know, there was like the reboots that started coming out when I was in college or whatever. And so like, I would see those or high school, you know, I was 20. Yeah, A.C.O. and the others.

She went, she, it's not, it's the 20th anniversary. You're, like, it's not about water. You're right. I mean, they call each glow, but that's stupid. It's not, it's not, like, now he's made out of water. Oh, he can do it in a way. He can slide under doors. But only hydroman is is spider man's toughest villain.

Yeah, it's most beloved villain. Hydrogen only doing that. The only villain Sony is like, eh, let's not make a movie about him. Let's do all the other ones to tie up a boring loosened basically like, you know, like those slip through the cracks cracks and they don't have many, maybe part of the ins. Those two are kind of regarded as some of the low points in the series, but I was just like, you know what? I've come so far. Let me just plug this hole. So I'm watching them this Halloween season. That's exactly

the way. If you've seen, have you watched all of them? Have you watched any of them? I've watched the first three and then it's pretty spotty hit and miss after that. I haven't seen any of the recent new ones. I'm at the. Yeah. Don't worry about it. I haven't done it to those. I find that and we'll get into this in greater, in greater depth.

I'm sure if they're rankings that Michael Myers to me is like a more primitive early version of something I like a lot, but is not, is not, he's not all the way there, you know. Uh, well, why don't we jump just jump into it? What, how do we rank Mr. Michael Myers in scaryness? And that's not Mike Myers, the comedian, which is 10 10 10 you hugely scary. He mirrors an axe. He stays.

That's where you have to be. Yeah. How scary do you have to be to do that? Yeah. I think this is another case of, you know, his he's been dampened by time. In this case, not by becoming campier, but becoming like being so many bad sequels. Like because we were ranking just on the original Halloween, I'd put him at like an eight or nine, but I think sort of overall now I've got to go with the seven. Okay, that's still a solid score, Elliott.

I think you know what, I think I'm going to give him a five. I just, I probably would have found him scarier when he was a fresh new flavor, but by the time I got into horror movies, he had already been around for a long time and there were better scarier his children were scarier than him, as we all hope. We all hope our children will go on to be scarier than we are. That's with the American dream. But it's always put a damper on him. I've never found him too particularly scary.

Yeah, there's something relentless about him and also he somehow learns to drive a car while in a mental institute. So that's impressive. I mean, he scares Donald Pleasence and he's kind of a scary guy. So.. So that's impressive. I mean, he scares Donald Pleasants. And he's kind of a scary guy. So yeah, that's true. I don't want to. Yeah. It's what it's like. It's like Quince shark speech. Like if something scares that guy, I'm scared of it too. Okay. So I think I'm kind of with you. Have you seen Waken fright? Donald Pleasants is a creepy dude. So he is. And I have. So that's not featured in this, not featured in this list though.

Okay. So that's not, I'm giving him, I'm giving him a whopping six first scary. So we're going to move on to star power. How lasting an image is Mr. Michael Myers? How, how much of a star is he? I mean, he's clearly had a lot of longevity, but even though I personally had, there's no movie in the Friday the 13th series that I like as much as I like the original Halloween and the third Halloween, but I mean, which Michael Myers is not in. But like, you know, I really love Michael Myers, because I love Halloween three.

But, you know what I love, Boba Fett, that's why I love Star Wars a new hope. Yeah, no, I realized it didn't make any sense after I said, my point is, as much as I feel that way, like Jason has become so much more like the iconic vision of that kind of slasher. So I feel like I have to give him, you know, Michael Miles, some de Maritz for having that sort of take it away. Yes, you're Dan Interclass. So I don't know. But there's been a lot of movies, so I'm still going to go with an eight.

Oh, wow, that's good. Okay, Elliot. I think I'm gonna go with a seven because again, his individual like stature, look, all that, I don't find particularly iconic, but still around. He's still here. Like Steven Sondheim said in the song he wrote about Michael Myers, I'm still here.

And so you can't deny that, but he does feel like the, he feels B team to me at this point, which takes, you know, I'm even a six actually, I'm even a six because he feels B team. And also, I'm just going to say this, I've never been a big fan of the first Halloween. I find it one of those movies that I can watch for historical importance, but it does not do it for me, you know. And I'm great song. Great song actually great song. It gets it on the song. The song is more iconic than the killer, I feel like. Halloween by Q would be by Merciful Fate.

Yes, Halloween by Merciful Fate. No, the theme from the movie Halloween, the junk harbiter theme. Okay, I'm actually going to drop him down. He's only getting a four from Stewart because I think he already has a strike against him because he doesn't talk, but also I just think he's kind of boring. And a jumpsuit, I mean, come on. I agree that he is boring.

Kind of boring. Kind of boring. And I feel like one of the reasons why there's been so many and is that I feel like a lot of filmmakers are trying to recapture the feel of the first time they saw the first Halloween. And I think they are ignoring what actually makes that thing scary. I don't know, maybe that's a half-form thought and I'm also pretty sick so ignore me. No, but I feel like the things around Halloween are scary. Like the name is a great name,

the posters are great poster. The theme is a scary piece of music. And I think there's a lot of stuff that is, it's like, but at the middle of it is this empty hole or a shape as he is credited as. Well, that is Michael Myers. I don't know. I feel like at this point, you're, you know, your tongues have been too flavor blasted by a flashier horror movies. I think that like the way that Carpenter uses

those big empty frames and has like things slowly sort of feel themselves. Like, if you were, you know, watching it in like a dirt room. If I was watching in the late 70s, it would be, yeah. Yeah. Um, but I know that he's got Prince of Darkness coming out of him. So I'm not, I'm like, there's scarier stuff coming from this guy. Yeah.

So why don't we do, it's Ellie. It's time. Why don't you pick a number between one and 14 for our lucky dip. 13. 13. Okay, this is this is going to be a challenge, but possible on a scale of one to 10. How well do you or how good do you think Michael Myers would be at writing a career defining novel?

I mean, going for myself, I'm going to have to give him a one on this one. I feel okay. I don't feel like he is the he is, maybe it's just because he doesn't talk. Maybe he's got all his words hemmed up inside, but I think he would have trouble sticking the course and finishing the book. Wait, seriously? He's relentless, but I don't think in the way that he would just be sitting down and pounding on those pages every day.

Now, are you, when you say career defining, like, I mean, could you find his career as bad as a bad player? Yeah. In which case, you're defining his career as a writer or could he like write a writer? Roman a cleft and like, define his career as a murderer, which would be easier. But you know what, I'm going to give him good marks. I'm going to say a seven because had a lot of life experiences and doesn't talk to clearly as a rich inner life.

But it's probably yeah, he could draw on his. Yeah, you know, he's probably thinking pros. Yeah, and most writers that I know are kind of weirdos anyway. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to give him a six. I think he, I think there's a decent chance he's got some words in him. But as I said before, I find him kind of boring. Okay. So let's move on to number three. I mean, that's my real worry. Because he would be talking about murdering people in a boring way.

Yeah. Yeah. It'd be two matter of fact. Okay. So moving on to our third contestant, that's right. We got Jigsaw from the Saw series. It's a man, but it's also a doll. What?

It's a cheque. Yeah. Kinda, I mean, it's not really, it's not an anime spirit. I feel like I saw the John Kramer. Yeah. I saw the most recent saw, the Saw X. I missed the bunch. You saw Saw.

Yeah, I saw Saw X. I missed the bunch in the middle. I'm sorry, this is probably, you know, jumping again and answering a question, you may be asking it in there. But part of like, you know, it's not a series that has been one of mine, but everyone was like, this one's good. And I'm like, all right, you know, I like have this time to kill and I have like, you know, a movie pass. So I watched it and when the doll showed up, it felt like the most kind of, at least the head is steaming right now. Yeah, well, Dan's like, I got nothing to do.

I guess we'll see. We'll be honest, I don't even want to see. But, no, when the, like the doll shows up and I'm like, this feels like so pro-formal. Like the doll is just like, she sounds like a prop comic serial killer. It just like happens to us. Yes, all associated with them. It doesn't do anything. Well, like, and you like all the, I mean, all the great heavy metal bands pretty much

have their mascot that shows up on their albums. And Jigsaw's like that, he's got his doll. The doll's just like a character that shows up. It's not like, you know, like Iron Maiden's not singing songs about Eddie, but he's there all the time. He's just around, you know? Yeah. And like John Kramer, the Jigsaw basically dies at the end of part three, but he's still

killing people way further past that. I feel like you're argument about the, the, the, the Chuckie movies having a long like continuity in canon. That is the one appeal of the software and chisels that they like. It's all treat as like one long story. Yeah. And Cariel comes back after a while, which is hilarious, but they do it like so much more

clumsily and weirdly, which is like added value. That's the fun of it. Yes. But the fun is that it's dumb. Yeah. But when I watch it long, the other stuff is not fun. I don't necessarily want a seamless epic tale. Like I kind of want bumps and shutters and jolt and things that

don't exist. No, I know. I just, like, something about the Saw Series way of doing it is too slip shot for me, whereas like, I enjoy the way that the checking movies actually kind of elegantly keep it all together. Okay, so on, on scaring us, where does Jigsaw fall for you? I mean, I've seen him from the outside. You know, like I know he's just- You never been Jigsaw. So you say you've been the other characters.

I've taken the omniscient view of the film camera and I know that Jigsaw is just this kind of weak dying guy, you know. And he does these traps rather than killing people and the traps are like, yeah, technically he doesn't kill any. Yeah, exactly. But they follow the trap he's set up that kills the police. He's hands are clean officer. There needs to be an entire episode of our entire series of like Ryan Murphy bullshit where

it's like the people versus John Craig. Yeah. Well, he has that dumbass like moral code that makes no sense in a number of ways. So that stuff makes him unscary to me. But if I put myself in the viewpoint of like someone in one of these traps, I think that would probably freak me out more than anything else. If you're going to apply, are you going to apply, are you afraid of the dark logic, which as I said before, when me and my brother's sister would watch, are you afraid of the dark

and Nickelodeon, we'd be like, well, it's not scary to watch. But if it was happening to us, we'd be scared if that was happening. Yeah. Or more movies. Yeah, we're in some horror movies. No, the horror movies should be like, it's scary to watch and if you were there. Oh, okay. Well, we're not talking about that. We're talking about, do you find this character scary?

Do you find Jigsaw scary? Well, that's why I'm going to split the difference and I'm going to give him a five. Okay, Elliot. I'm going to give him a one. I haven't seen most of the saw movies. I just don't find him personally very scary. And there's something about, I've never been a big fan of like trap stuff. I feel like this episode so far has made me time out things I don't like as opposed to things

I like. But the idea, I like someone who gets his hands dirty, you know, as opposed to someone who's just like, hmm, I've set up an intricate series of events that if they go right, you'll die. And you'll probably will, because at a certain point, they're just arcade, who is an X-Men villain that I like, even though he is terrible at his job. Everyone always escapes, his stuff he does is way too over elaborate, and that makes it less scary to me.

Yeah, yeah, you have to see he's going to fail your kink. I'm about to tread on what I assume is well-trod stand up ground from a decade or more ago, but like I see the trap. What's the deal with Barack Obama? No, I see the traps. I'm like, where did he find the time? He's still like, yeah, especially as like a week's time. He says the guy saw X in the theater. Yeah, Dan, if anyone knows how much time a human can have on their hands, it's you.

That's not to bring it back to X-Men, but that's something I've been thinking about a lot lately is whenever you see apocalypse or Mr. Sinister in their layer and it's full of huge computer screens, there's all these elaborate consoles. I'm like, so was he just there with a drill and a screwdriver and a soldering iron just making that by himself for weeks? Yeah. Yeah. He has contractors, then of course he has to kill them afterwards.

Of course, yeah. And they're like, well, this alien technology is going to hard to come by apocalypse. It's going to take us a few more weeks than we thought it would. I was supposed to be kidnapping the X-Men like two days ago. But when you're still not done yet, no, it's going to take some time. Hey, pay me now, pay me later. I can leave right now and you're just going to have to bring me back to fix it. Okay, all right. Survival of the fittest, etc. Anyway. Apocalypse, you can get it done well, you can get it done fast, or you can get it done cheap. You can only get two of those things though. Okay, so I'm kind of with you guys, although honestly, I'm kind of scared of traps.

As much as I love games, I would hate for those games to result in me dying because I'm not actually good at games. So I'm going to give Jigsaw a six. Now, star power, I think we're all in agreement. Not a lot of star power there for Mr. Jigsaw. No, I don't think that although there is a part in a later saw movie where John Kramer shows up at like a serial killer convention or something wearing a baseball hat on backwards, that's super cool. I think it cashed, you saw. But I think any, if the character is upstaged by his doll, that doesn't actually do anything that I think that character is as low star power, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's the problem. They split the star power between a doll and an old guy. And I gotta say, Tobin Bell is a pretty- It's like if Freddie was not as well known as his car, you know? Yeah. That's what it feels like to me, yeah. Tobin Bell is a charismatic actor though. And I think that like in the series, I don't know, I mean, like this most recent one, he does look very old.

So like that combined because he's an old man. He's supposed to be dying, makes him a little less alarming to me as like a physical threat. But I'll give him a two for like personal charisma. Then might make it a little scarier to me as he's a, he's a specter of the harbinger of age, which waits for us all. If we're lucky. Yeah, that's true. I'm giving him a one.

He's not that scary to me. Dan gives him a two. Elliott, what do you give him? I'm gonna give him a one. Okay. So lucky dip. Dan, give me a number between one and 14. Nine.

Number nine. Uh oh. This is actually, I think he's gonna be good at this. On a scale of one to ten, how well do you think jigsaw would be at managing a restaurant? Yeah, I'm gonna attend for that. He's all about administration. He's all about delegation. Yeah, he inspires legions of acolytes apparently.

So put him in a managerial role. Yeah. He's going to shoot up the corporate ladder on that. He'll be running mannequins in no time. He doesn't even have to be there. He does most of his work for a month. It's amazing. It's going to be like, so as the head of the McDonald's corporation, as CEO, you're appointing

a dead man, a man who died years ago. He's just that good. Just wasn't a star. Yeah, he convinced. Okay, so that's Dan. I'm guessing that's a 10 from you. Yeah, yeah. Man, he crushed it. He gets a 10 from me. Wow. Yeah, that lucky dip really kind of brought him back. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Our next one comes from beyond the stars. Our next villain is the predator. That's right. An alien hunter. Obviously you guys have seen some predator movies, right? Sure. Sure. Yeah. I think I've seen all of them except predators, the one with Adrian Brody. I still haven't seen that one. I saw that one, not the other one, not the Shane

Black one. I didn't see the, oh, right. You know what? I didn't see that one either. So that's there's the two except it's weird when the pret it's weird when predators a character who's been around for 40 years at this point, almost. And the best movie that he was in was the most recent one that it took that long for him to be in a in a really good movie. It's in it's great. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. I guys, I'm realizing something disturbing about myself and that I have seen all of the predator movies and it's not even a franchise I particularly care for. Yeah. Maybe Ellie's been right all these years.

Ellie, what should I be spending my time on? I mean, things that inspire or uplift you, things that touch your emotions. It's a little bit of a hit I miss. You don't always know what's good of create that reaction. But often if you, forgetting what TLC says, if you do stick to the rivers and rivers and rakes that you're used to, you're just raking up those rivers like you're used to, then you're not going to experience anything new or fresh. You've got to chase new things. That's why, and that's why, I see a movie, I'm at this point, I'm more excited to watch

an old-farn movie. I don't know anything about than the latest chapter in a franchise that I'm familiar with, even one that I like. Yeah. I've started reading more again. I'm reading the three-body problem. Wait, it's good. It's good. A little Little disappointed you thought it was about a threesome. Had they luck them all together in the right configuration? That's a good body problem. Guys, I've started reading romance novels. Good, that's fantastic. I like to change it up. Can't I be fantasy in sci-fi? No, and meanwhile, I should talk. I'm now rereading the longest book I've ever read, The Power Broker, for an upcoming project that looks like I'll be working on.

That's a little teaser for later, maybe. But that is the most not-chasing-our-faults it could be. It's reading a huge book that I know will take me a while. They've already read. Yeah, it's the Power Stroker, your porn parody. Yeah. So, I invented this device. I don't believe what I call it.

So you want me to do how we're going to do this parkway or expressway. Now why do you express on the parkway? You're a seamen I mean. You don't park on the expressway except if you could park, if you said, if you could park debt, but this way, that's how he does it. Yeah. Anyway, I can't think of a porn name for Robert Moses. I can't think of it.

So Robert blow this. Anyway, so it starts Robert blow this. Slot, slot, blot blows us. Yeah, Robert blow this, Robert do this. Yeah. Okay. Does us. Robert blows this, Robert do this, yeah. Okay, does us. So the predator, where do we fall on this guy? The predator, how scary.

I think he is, he's one where I think he's scary and capability until he gets beaten at the end in every, every one. And also scary and appearance. He's got a creepy crab face, you know. And I saw I'm going to give him a weird shaming, but that's okay. Well, except I'm not, it's okay. He's not real, but except that he's not that, you know what, but he's not that scary. He's not like I'm watching the movie and I'm like, oh, I'm scared. So actually, forget what I just said. Again, he was, I'm just thinking about if he'm like, oh, I'm scared. So actually, forget what I just said. He's again, I'm just thinking about

if he was chasing me. He was chasing me 10 out of 10, scary. But watching the movie, I gave him maybe a four for scary, to me there's like a monster. Yeah, there's like a, there's an overwhelming force from him. Yeah. So he is so much better at hunting you

than you are at running away from him. Yes. Like a dentist on vacation, shooting an elderly lion so much better at hunting you than you are at running away from him. Yes. Like a dentist on vacation shooting an elderly lion in a cage, it feels very unfair the way the predator hunts its human victims. He's so imposing and the design is good if a little too humanoid for me. That's one of the problems I had in the predator. But, but, but like that, that is frightening as a design. But like Elliot, I don't get that scared watching the movies

at all. So I'll put about a five actually. Put a minute a five. I still find him pretty, I find him fairly scary. And so I'm going to give him a seven. He's this like overwhelming enemy that has, you know, a collection of wonderful toys. That's right. So we're, I think this is a pretty good time. Now that we're talking about wonderful toys, I think it's a perfect time for us to have a little word from our sponsors. Thanks.

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it's just a general truth. And the only thing that like, ever would keep you from it is like fear that it was too slow, but I think NordVPN has effectively disproven your thoughts, doubter, doubting VPNer. So I don't know why this is taking such an adversarial. No, it's actually easy. It's easy. Yeah. Yeah.

To get our exclusive discount off of your NordVPN plan, plus four months for free. Go to nordvpn.com slash flop house. It's completely risk free with Nords 30 day money back guarantee. So that's NordVPN.com slash flop house. I've got some flop house show things to tell people about and then one personal thing. So tickets may still be available when this episode comes out for our October 19th shows at Vitiates in Los Angeles. Vitiates is a great venue. I really love it.

It's a special one. It's very beloved here in LA. And I'm excited to be there. We're going to be doing two shows, 6pm. We're talking about speed two at 8.45pm. We're talking three men and a baby with our special baby guest, Halley Hagland. That's right. The star of the show will be joining us live on stage.

Go to vidgetsfoundation.org. Both of those shows will be totally original shows, new presentations, new talk, nothing the same in between them except the same three lovable flop has dudes. Go to vidgetsfoundation.org. I think tickets may still be available when this comes. We're also recording this just a few days after our most recent episode of flop TV, our online broadcast show. We talked about Hot Dog, the movie, and the hamburger, the motion picture.

There's a lot of fun. I got so mad talking about hamburger, the motion picture. And Dan taught us all about a movie that somehow sounds even worse than that one. Did you miss the episode? Don't worry. If you buy a season past a flop TV, you will still get access to all the episodes we've aired as well as to new episodes when they come out. Our next new episode will be the first Saturday in November when we are talking over the top greatest sports movie ever made. Possibly we're going to find out it's over the top.

First Saturday, November, I'm really excited about it. Go to theflophouse.simpletix.com. That's theflophouse.simpletix.com to get tickets to individual shows or a season pass. You save a little bit and as always, it gets you access to all those old episodes. Before we get back to Stuart's horror monster power rankings, I want to mention that I have a comic series that's currently in stores now. I was not promoting it during the strike

because it is a corporate owned IP, but the strike is over. Time for me to promote it. This series is called Hades. It's from Dynamite Comics, and it is a five issue series featuring Hades, the villain from Disney's Hercules movie. That's right, Hades is back on the prowl for a evil.

It's a dating story then. No, not dating story for a second. It is a heist story. Hades has decided he wants the power of the Golden Fleece so he can get back at the Olympian gods and he assembles his own little team of heisters, Orpheus, Arachnian, Echoris, and the Minotaur to help him get that stuff. There's twists, turns, betrayals. and he assembles his own little team of heisters, orfias, arachnic, echorists, and the minator to help him get that stuff. There's twists, turns, betrayals,

there's lots of Greek mythological characters. I had a lot of fun doing it. The artist by Alessandro and Aldi, who does a fantastic job with it, it's super fun. The first two issues have come out. Number three comes out October 25th. It will be five issues in total, and that is Hades from Dynamite Comics, written by me.

And yeah, I'm glad that was the personal information that you said you had a personal announcement. I'm like, oh no, he's gonna be like, I've decided to quit the flop house to go back to medical school. Yeah, I have a personal announcement. I have faked my own death in order to abandon my family. I now live in South America, do not look for me.

Oh, wow, dude, that's weird. Wow, dude, that's weird. But. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. I'm Mrs. Ambrosio, producer, and I'm also a worker owner at MaxFund. This week is all about community. Of course, we couldn't be a co-op without the MaxFund community, and we love it whenever members of our audience get together. So we're having another MaxFund meetup this Thursday, October 12th. And next week, we'll be hosting a panel discussion with other worker owners across the co-op community.

And we are still selling our limited edition launch crew merch available to all Max Fun members. But only through the end of the month. For more info, I'll meet up date, and everything co-optober head to maximumfun.org slash co-optober. That's CO, OP, T-O-B-E-R. Have a great week! Okay, and we're back.

Now we've, we're currently ranking the predator, the predator monster. What is it? A youtia or youtja? Whatever that alien race is called? You know what? I don't think I've ever known. Yeah.

It's an oak tray. Yep. Oh, it's too old to know. It's an engine and Jake Jill and Hall. So it's a super cute little big pig. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

That should have been the tail on that. That should have been the tail. That should have been the tail, man. Yeah. That's a phrase I wish I could get to credit for. That's a phrase that my kids use a lot to describe. If we're ever doing mad lives, I'll be like, now and they go, um, little big big. That do you imagine Dustin Hoffman's face on that big? We put him in a lot of big.

Incredibly elderly pig who lived out west, yeah. And then James Cromwell's like, that'll do a little big big. Okay, so we're ranking the predator. We have already ranked it on scaring us time to rank it on. Uh-oh, star power. How much of a star is the predator? He's got cool dreadlocks and a mask sometimes. All right, your weapons. He wears fishnets like a all over like share. Yeah. He was a fishnet body stocking like share in the turn back time video. Yeah, I'm into it. Hey, or you have to imagine the predator is always showing up after a rocky harb picture screening where he's he's gone as Frank and Furger and now he's out killing people, you know.

Maybe if he was asked to be like, actually, I was dressing up like a bag of oranges. It's just an easy Halloween costume you could do around the house. Yeah, being a bag of oranges. Okay. So guys, star power for the bread head. What do we do? I mean, like you said, got a lot of flair, got a lot of wonderful toys.

I also think that, you know, other than like maybe the crab mouth, predators, one of the monsters we've talked about that I can more plausibly see someone thinking is sexy because it's just a big like beefy guy basically, oh yeah. He's not skipping leg day. So, oh no.

Again, maybe not my series, but I'm gonna give an eight for star power. Okay. So here's the thing. I normally, I feel similar to, similar with Chuck E. in a way where it's like predator for so many years was a real also ran kind of second tier one of these, you know, after I'm sure we'll

get to him at some point, the xenomorph, which is I'll just spoil for me as kind of the king of all these, these monsters in a way. But again, just like Sondheim wrote in his, in his song about the predator, I'm still here. Like the predator clawed his way up to being a top draw. And I really got to give him credit for that. Then maybe he, this is some stars are born and some are made and the predator made himself a star. So I'm going to give him, I think, a nine. Not bad. I'm going to say, you know, I feel like the predator is, look, is a little too busy for me. I do like the clicks and I like the other sound effects like the sound of the clinic. You like see his like, uh, his thermal vision or, uh, I also like his little like three laser laser sight

thing. I think that's pretty cool. I will. I'm going to drop him down to an eight because whenever he's using his claw hands to press the buttons on his wrist controller, it looks silly. That looks that looks silly to me. Yeah, it seems. Yeah. So I'm only given a six. So I'm sorry, predator. Yeah, you lost me a little here, buddy. Now, Elliot, can you give pick a number between one and 14 for the lucky dip? I'm going to say two. Two. Okay. This is an interesting twist. On a scale of one to 10, how likely are you to invite the predator to a nice restaurant? Oh, arguably one run by Jigsaw. I mean, I'm going to say, I mean, if it's the Jigsaw restaurant, maybe I'm going to

say one for two reasons. One, I don't know if he's on the hunt, which would make it an awkward meal. And also, I don't want to watch him stick in food in that crab mouth. I'm sorry, I don't need to be face shaming him, but I don't, I have, we have a pet crayfish in our house. I watch that eat and it is frightening. It's a pain in your chest. Yeah. So I saw, I saw a crab eat like a pinky once, you know, like a little baby careless mouse. And it did it from the back. So the thing was still alive for most of the meal. It was the first. I think that new what was happening and was like, I'm doing this to freak you out.

It's very possible. I could see the predator doing that. I don't know why the restaurant is serving him live finkies. Maybe that's what he ordered. That's true. Why they put that on the menu. Yeah, you know, I think that there's like going to be a lot of destruction if you take a predator to a restaurant. That's, that's a number one concern other than like the predator killing me, you know, that's, that's a number one, double a, pepper one concern, I guess. But so don't want to hang out with someone who wants to kill me. A lot of destruction because of some ambiguity in the wording, would you invite a predator to a nice restaurant? I'd say, what if the scenario is you're tricking the predator into

a restaurant you filled with explosives so to end this hunt, this game? You're right. Yeah, I guess, I guess in that situation, that unlikely situation. So, you know, no, for that very unlikely situation, I'll give it a two. Just, just, I will say. I will say. The pub's set up from one. I want to, I don't remember what I said the predator was in terms of scariness, but I want to mention, I think the predator scariness

involves context. In the jungle, in the first movie, I don't find him that scarier. But in predator two, which is, a bonkers not good, incredibly racist movie that doesn't make any sense, he's much scarier in an urban setting. There's something about the fact that he can be going after regular bystanders. That is very scary to me. As opposed to the jungle where it's like, well, I'm never

going to be on a black ops mission in Latin America, you know, with my, with my mercenary team, you know, so I'm not, that's not as scary to me, you know. I don't know. I feel like you could be like the quiet religious guy who goes crazy. I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, you know, I'm going to give, uh, I'm going to be a little higher. I'm going to say, I'm going to give the predator a three because, you know, when you stroll into that nice restaurant with a predator on your arm, you're going to be turning some heads. People are going to be looking at you a little different. You're dressed to a press.

Okay. So we are now moving on to our fifth horror villain. And this is a little bit of an outlier because this, this monster doesn't have a franchise. We are talking about the Boba Duke. Boba Duke. Oh, one gay icon. Boba Duke. Yeah, one and only one is an ironic gay icon and just became just became one.

The Bob, which, yeah, Jennifer Kent, the director specifically put in the contract that could not have sequels made. So one and done. Very smart. And then she made one of the most soul scouring movies I've ever seen the night and kill. I still have not been able to bring myself to watch. Okay, so the Boba Duke on terms of scaryness, have you guys seen the Boba Duke?

Yes. Okay, in the Boba. Seeing it, it's a great movie. Yeah. Scary. I'd certain, I'm giving it, the thing is, I'm gonna give it a 10 in terms of scaryness, the movie. But the scariest scene in that movie to me is the one where she is in the car and her son

is flipping out and she cannot get him to calm down. That is so much scarier to me than anything the Bobadook does except for the part where she pulls her own tooth out. That's again, I feel like the humans are scarier to me than the Bobadook in that movie. But the Bobadooks making them do it. So I'll give the Bobadook an assist on that. Yeah. So my rating comes with levels.

This is sort of like the galaxy brain, brain meme. Okay, so like the first level is, fuck man, that Boba Duke in that movie is pretty goddamn scary, right? You go one above that level and you're like, yes, but the moral spoiler of the Babadook is like, she learns to live with it. She integrates it into her life by not letting the fear take over. And it's just sort of a general metaphor for the depression, you know, the bad feeling that we all have to live with. And then, so maybe it's not that scary because that's a good message and you to live with. And then, so like, maybe it's not that scary,

because that's a good message, and you can live with it. But then the galaxy brain sort of thing is like, it's so much scarier to think about the fact that you have to just do this hard work of actually dealing with problems for your whole life. So, I'm gonna give it a bye. There's no, there's no, and not that's pretty good. I think there's no, there's no magic spell or artifact that is going to shoot the Bobbiduk

into a portal and you don't have to deal with them again. Yeah. Yeah, there's no like reverse summoning ritual that you can perform that gets rid of the Bobbiduk. You just have to deal with it forever. Yeah. And hopefully the noise quiets a little bit. I'm going to add in, I'm going to, there's a little bit extra scary about the Babadook

because I have to assume this is the case that that the visual is so, is so informed by kind of minstrelry iconography, the top hat and the like the exaggerated features and the and things like that. And that it's, so there scariness of institutional racism and cultural racism is also kind of is kind of built into that into that creature that got on the other hand. On the other hand, you got to imagine the Babaduk hand crafting those picture books that he leaves behind. And that is less scary to me. The idea of a monster involved in handicrafts is less scary to me.

Well, this is actually the, so I'm not to say that there aren't you know, overtones of what you're saying, Elliot, because I can see where it comes from, but is my understanding that the Bobbidooks look was directly inspired by this film that I just looked up.

The man in the Beaver Hat in London after midnight, or sorry, London after midnight is looked up, the man in the beaver hat in London after midnight, or sorry, London after midnight is the film and the man with, with Lon Channing. And here we see, Oh yeah. Oh, you know what? Maybe it's a total coincidence

because he does look like Lon Channing in London after midnight. But except, I don't know about that. I don't know if I totally buy that actually. I mean, it could be a touch of yours and attention to mine. A little bit of both. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm given, I'm given them a 10, Bob, that's a scary one. There's a, yeah, super scary. So and I think, I think Elliot's kind of ranking also ties in with this next part. Star power. How much star power does this Bob, I feel like for having only one movie and how well it's entered the cultural consciousness a little bit, it's pretty scary. That's some solid star power.

A super star power, I would give them a 10 on star power. And also it takes you back to when these movies were young, like when horror movies in the old days, you didn't expect a character would have a whole franchise. And they were scary characters. Like you look at Bill Legosi's Dracula, he plays that character in two movies 14 years apart or something like that.

He's in Dracula and then he's in Evan Castello Meet Frankenstein. And otherwise, I don't know that he's on screen as Dracula at all in between those two. I might be forgetting something, but I don't think so. And like that's iconic star power. When you can, when you can establish that with one movie and that's the way you used to have to do it. So yeah, Boba Duke, 10 out of 10 for star power. Yeah.

I'm going to ding the Boba Duke a little for not having maybe the same man on the street appeal as Jason, if you're going to like ask someone to like, do you know a horror thing? He's like the Parker Posey of our bar of monsters where it's like in the right community, he's a huge star. But I agree. On Twitter, people know all about him. This is just coming from a Judy Greer lover like Dan McCoy too, especially. Well, that's what I'm saying.

For the memes, for the gay iconness, for the fact that people can like talk about the BobaDook and people know what it means and the BobaDook is such a funny word to say that it ends up in a lot of jokes. You know, I'll still go, you know, I still, you know, I'm being held back by the man of the street, my imagined man of the street who may be very different than my prejudices, but I'm going to say eight. Still very high for a character from what New Zealand movie? Yeah. With no, no famous stars in it, at least no famous American stars. That's pretty hot. That's high.

Uh, I'm, and I'm, I'm giving the Boba Duk a nine again, because, uh, it's one of the biggest lessons is you leave them wanting more. Uh, huh. You want, you want more of that Boba Duk, you only get a taste. It's so much scarier and so much more impressive. Like it's just so much more of an impact that you know that he's left living in that basement, right? Or closet, whatever it is, with that family having to deal with him as we all have our bobbadooks that we have to deal with.

Rather than like, bobbadook, too. Now some teenagers go from America, go to the New Zealand coast for the spring break and the bobbad Duke shows up like the same thing that pinhead because he's down. I'm sure we'll talk about pinhead at some point, but pinhead becomes increasingly less scary and less ominous and imposing the more you see him just hanging around talking to people and doing stuff, you know. Yeah.

And by that last one where pinhead has three roommates and they, and they've got, and they're like, oh, we've got a, my boss is coming over for dinner. Can you, you guys have to help me pretend that I don't have any roommates in that, how razor six, I hope I wish I didn't have roommates. That's by then pinhead has lost all, you know, all lost all this mystique. Well, save your pinhead talk for later, spoiler alert. Okay. So we are now into the lucky to dip category for the Bobbidook. Dan, give me a number between one and 14. No doubles. You can't double it up. Seven. Seven.

Okay. How well on a scale of one to 10, do you think the Bobbidook could plan a retirement party? Oh boy, this is, this is a tough one. This one. I don't know. Can I go first and can I go first? Yes, sure. I'm going to give him an eight on this because one, again, good with crafts, two. Yes.

He's good at getting to know people. He can make a personalized children's book, pop up book, I think, right, for everybody. I feel like he's going to do, he's's gonna be like, here's what's gonna be special and really get at the heart of this person who's retiring, we're gonna make some things to put around and he is good at getting people to do things that maybe they don't wanna do, like almost kill a dog and pull their own tooth out.

And maybe even people who don't wanna get involved in this retirement party, he's gonna be able to get them to do it. Yeah, I mean, I think the craft's angle is good. I hadn't thought of it. Like the Bob Duck is definitely a creature with an aesthetic. So there's that. And, you know, there's something uniquely sort of keyed in to middle aged and elderly emotional concerns about the Bob Duck to me. like it seems like the bobbin is a creature that maybe be devils you only once you've reached a certain point

in your life and can reflect on yourself with a certain amount of emotional maturity. And so that might come into place. I'm going to say seven. Yeah, yeah. Elliott, what was your number? What was your number on that one? I said eight. Eight. I'm going to go with Elliott on this one. I think in eight,

the Boba doke also, I feel like I can really connect with people that are also considering the, the fears of getting older and age. I think there's something about that. So yeah, the Boba, not a bad, not a bad score for, he's going to do a good job putting the party together. But at some point, he will say something tactless to me to the subject of the party. Yes. That's why it doesn't get higher marks. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So our next our next villain, I think you already, you already guessed it. That's right. The leader of the centubite. himself. Pinhead originally performed by Doug Bradley

in the early hell raise or movies. And then did he play pinhead up until the recent reboot? I thought so, but I could be worried about that. Now at least two of those are good movies. There's a few that are not so good, not as a great. Have you guys seen all the Hellraiser movies? There's so many of these and they get so bad. Like three is still passable, but then I feel like it takes a tie off the clip. Yeah, after two, I've never been able to get myself to, I've never been able to get

my astamars and watch the rest of them. I, I still have some affection for which one is that Hellraiser in Ferno. I think that was the one by the guy who made sinister. That feels like a, it feels like a nice little like self-contained story that is in the like hell-raiser universe as opposed to just like a sloppy, like, you know, like slasher clone that just happened to have his heads. But yeah, the first two, obviously, they're the wettest horror movies you're ever going to see.

The first one. Cooper, yeah. They're so fucking great. And like arguably Julia is one of the like all time horror movie villains. What a great character. It's so awesome. A movie about a woman bringing a guy back from the dead because she is so horny for her husband's brother.

Oh, it's great. I love it. Well, that's an amazing thing about the about Hellraiser is if he came, they turned pinhead into kind of like Freddie or Jason type when he's such a, he's such a side part of that first Hellraiser movie. It's not about him, you know, he's just a, he's just a glimpse of the horrors that exist in the, you know, beyond our dimension. And that first one's only like 85 minutes or something. It's like so tight. Yeah, it's short and there's a little, I feel like there are times when even at that length,

I'm like, all right, Alrazer, like you can be going, but I don't need this montage of her bringing men home and killing them. But even just the idea that like that he's he's coming back to life in stages, you know, and they're at it. He's got, she's got to add more and more layers of skin and muscle onto it, you know. The effects, the effects are still great. Like it, it's gorgeous. But I think we're talking about the movie and not talking about pinhead. Yeah. So in terms of scaring us, how scary is pinhead? I have two minds about this because on the one hand, I find pinheads deal sort of confusing,

I find pinheads deal sort of confusing, which doesn't scare me. Like ambiguity can be scare. I mean, just an angel demon exploring the the border between pleasure and pain. I don't know what's confusing. I mean, he just wants, he wants to show you sites, Dan. Yeah, he used to be a world for one soul. I don't understand what's wrong with that. Yeah. He just like shows up if you do a Rubik's cube and then he's like, hey, like you wanted

me for some reason, even though I'm clearly going to flay you, but that's going to be sexy to you. He's the journey who thinks that everyone who rubs his lamp is turned on by being flayed. Yeah. Basically, yeah. Basically. I'm that's the best explanation of his deal I've ever heard. And it kind of makes me like a more.

But I'm saying, the confusingness isn't scary to me. Like, you know, ambiguity, all those other things are more scary. That said, like just having like unasked for bondage people show up at my door, like in my apartment, that would scare me a lot. Like I just bought this puzzle box at an antique store. I didn't ask for the rest of it to come along. I'm not saying I couldn't get into it, but this is a lot. What?

You're like, guys, are we going to a KMFDM concert? What's going on? This would be a radical shift in my vibe. And maybe it convinced me over time, but right now. Let's put up a brand new. I can't stand wearing a lot of wet leather lately. What's going on? I always got these new friends.

Like, are there super into the matrix or are there some plates? That's great. I think they're going to ask up to a seven. That's all I'm saying. Oh, for scaryness, I'm giving him a nine super scary look suit his, he the guys he hangs out with are super scary and weird and the they

think that they are you that you're going to like the things that they're doing to you, which makes it scarier to me that it's like, oh, I'm doing you a favor by torturing you. This is going to be fun for you, but he loses it a little bit for me from, because they gave him a backstory. And I don't want to know where he came from.

And so that the more I know about him, the less scary he is. If I know, it's the same, the same thing that gets me about a lot of these, these characters and movies is once you start telling me their names and I have to think about how they have a birthday and possibly a social security number that makes it less scary. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. I'm going to give him a nine, but it is one of those things where part of the appeal

is the idea that like, I am drawn to like knowledge of the forbidden. Like I'm drawn to the like things you shouldn't know. And so it's scary that that could lead to you getting your skin ripped off. But like the ironic side is the more you find out the less exciting. Yes. Much like NBC told us in those PSAs, the more you know, the less scary. Yeah. But no, he's still pretty good. He did one of those goes, Hey, I know you want to know all about where I'm from and what my deal is, you don't. It's going to make me a lot less interesting in a lot less scary. Well, that's why there are all those signs that say if you see something about Pennhead,

say something about Pennhead because the more you say about Pennhead, the less scary he is. Well, and as Heisenberg told us, the more you observe about Pennhead, the less scary he is, the less you observe you. So our actor observing him affects his, his, his actual principles. Yeah, that's his, his uncertainty, you know, by, his, his, his, his, his center by uncertainty principle. Yeah. Now, I think you cannot serve and be afraid of them at the same time. So far, pinnets doing pretty good. And I think he's going to do pretty well in this next category. That's star power. How much star power does our boy have? Or

are they them? I can't remember. There's a, in the reboot, it's an androgynous. They're an androgynous character, right? Yeah. I haven't seen the reboot. So possibly. I could be wrong. Please correct me in the comments. But I'm going to say, I'm going to say 10 out of 10 with star power. Anytime a character is a supporting character in a movie and then takes over the series, they have to have a certain amount of inborn star power. In my mind, there is this direct connection between Pinhead and Rob Halford from Judas Priest.

And I don't know why, I don't know that they're just kind of thin tall, balding British gentleman who wear leather. A lot of leather, yes. A lot of leather. And Rob Halford to me is an enormous star. So even if pinhead is just kind of leaching off of that association that still grants them an enormous amount of star power. Yeah. So 10 out of 10.

I'm giving 10 out of 10 for star power. I use a hell racer as a series. I think it's weird because it starts with an unusual amount of ambition for this sort of thing. I mean, because Clive Barker himself is behind it. And then as the series goes on, it becomes one of the junkiest, shlockiest of these long running things, whatever crap. So again, there's an effective, the like the aggregate taking, you know, what would be

a higher score down. But I do think that Pennhead, despite that, has such a unique look, you know, it's like, what the hell is this thing? Like what's going on here with this man who is like bisected by pins? I'll give him a name. So I think even in those later ones, it's in those later, how razor movies, it's like Joan Crawford and Trog or like Marlon Brando in the island, Dr. Moro. You're like, this is slumming, but this is a star.

Like I see that this is a star and I see why they were a star. And I'm also going to throw in there. I'm giving pinhead 10 out of 10. Part of it is also he's got like that super deep sexy voice. That's like, that should be so soothing, but there's also like an alien quality to it. It's amazing. Like as soon as he shows up, you're like, that's why like a million shitty bands have sampled fucking hell razor clips for their songs. Yeah, what a yeah. And he's not afraid to share the spotlight.

He's got his, but he also has an entourage. And so the like, a lot of these, he's, he can, you know, he's the leader of a group. And that's got star power in it right there. Yeah, he's got chatterbox, butterball, and ladies in a bite. And ladies in a bite, no name given. And see me and CDK.

Well, it's Creole ladies in a bite. It's what? Creole ladies in a bite, no name given. And see my NCD. It's Creole ladies. It's what? Yeah. Creole ladies in a bite. Oh, there's a bit of a parody. I'm here to melody. Okay. So, okay, pinnets doing really well. Yeah, yeah. Get your skin all off. Yeah. Elliot. Get your gitches skin all off. Cruel ladies and a bite. Bum bum bum bum bum bum. Uh, are we out? Okay. We got time this many to keep doing that.

Are you right? Yeah, we can really workshop this one. Let's, yeah, let's call Lin-Manuel Miranda to jump in here. Okay. Uh, Elliot, pick a number between one and 14. Uh, 10. Oh, okay. This is actually, this might be a challenge.

On a scale of one to 10, how good do you think pinhead could be a great guest on WTF with Mark Marin? Oh, I mean, I'm going to give that a 10. That's, that's not difficult to me at all. Yeah. The stories they've got that, the, you know, just how lucidly and articulately pinhead is going to be able to talk about that. And you know, at some point, Mark Marin used the limit configuration, was mean to pinhead,

piss them off. And now that Mark Marin is like, do we have beef? What's our beef? Except the problem is going to be, who are pinheads guys? beef? What's our beef? Except the problem is going to be- Yeah, who are pinheads, guys? Well, let's think, unfortunately, Mark Maren's going to be, where are you from? Who are your guys? What did your parents do for living? And I don't want to know any of that. That's not,

that's not going to be useful to me. He also has no relationship with Lauren Michaels that we know of. Well, that when when Mark Maren starts asking pinhead about who was the door man at catch or at the left factory, when he was performing performing there like that'll be a problem. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I feel like pan head seems pretty humorless to me.

So I think the conversation would be a might drive. That's my concern. I think it'll take a picture. I mean, I have to write it to you, Dan, even the conversations with comedians on the OVTF. Wow. Wow. Okay, so let conversations with comedians under the TF. Wow. Wow. Okay, so let's drop a score on this bad boy.

I have to go. Okay. I'll say, I'll say 10, 10, great guest. Dan. I said, I want to hear Mark Marin. He does this whole thing about where he's just performed and how much he liked that theater or didn't like that. So, pinhead.

Didn't know what to know about this center bite. Didn't know how to feel about it. But I was worried they were gonna play my skin, but we had a good talk and here it is. Bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop-bop. And then you hear pinhead going, so we just start right now, we're do our waiting for anything.

No, no, let's just go, let's just go. And Mark Maren's like, where are all these chains come from? Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna, your leather is very wet. It's wet leather. I I'm going to let her very wet. Wet wet wet letter. Never would have thought leather would be wet. Well, you know, I live in a dimension of flesh. So things get wet and it's a constant windexing of the leather to a definitely gore and visceral

off. Uh, solids gore is for open head. You might be the one to be. Okay. So we are on our last, our last villain for the day. And we got to round it out with a big one. That's right. Freddie Krueger. Oh wow. Wow. Yeah. Freddie Krueger on a scale. Have you guys seen any of these movies? You ever heard of this guy? I heard of a Frederick J Krueger. Yeah. No, I think I heard him bitch.

I think I've seen all of them except for the Lazy reboot. Unless maybe I watched that sometime. I don't even remember. I, yeah, I think I've seen all of it. I'm gonna get all of it. You did. I've seen all the old ones and did I watch Freddie versus Jason all the way through? I think so.

So I'm the theater. But Freddie, Freddie Krueger, we'll get, is someone, one of these characters, one of many of these horror characters, where I feel like the character is better than the work that he appears in, much like Sherlock Holmes. I feel like the character itself is a higher level than the actual narrative, you know. Oh man. It's rare that I've walked out of a Freddie Krueger movie and been like, that was good. That was good and scary. Yeah, I don't know that I've ever found him super scary because in my mind don't come at me.

Like I like these movies, but even the first one, the one that everyone's like, that's super scary. It's a little goofy to me. It's less goofy than later on when Freddie starts cracking jokes all the time, but those big arms going across and scraping the- You don't think that's scary, that's what a human arm should do? Yeah. I mean, yeah, so I'm gonna, I gotta go with, I mean, although hold on, his deal, his whole deal is pretty scary. The whole concept of him is scary.

The idea that he cannot, you cannot go to sleep. I mean, that's something you can't fight. So that, and Dan loves to go to sleep. Dan loves to go to sleep. Dan loves to have me. So all that time on his hands. Yeah. Yeah. I think so I'm going to give it three ratings, three different ratings still. One, when I was a kid, 10 Super Scary, just seeing his face very scary. And when I was a kid, Freddie Krueger was being shoved down children's throats. There were lunch boxes. There was the talking doll. For some reason this character was trying to make the leap from horror, teenager, and adult viewing to family, fair, family material.

I'm amazed there wasn't a cartoon. It seems crazy to me, but he seems so scary. As an adult, like Dan, I find him less scary than like off-putting in some ways. The fact that he wears a hat and a sweater and sometimes sunglasses is making so much less scary to me. Anytime, the fact that there's a continuum between Freddie Krueger and Spud's Mackenzie

in terms of like wearing sunglasses to look cool, that makes him less scary. But the back idea behind him is so, and I feel like it's never been achieved as well as really could be. The fact that he is a child molester. He is a real life villain who was murdered and is now getting revenge and that he's that there's no the fact that someone would be getting revenge who is was already a scary person, you know, that he's not he's not a

wronged innocent not not saying that anyone who's accused of a crime should have their house burned down around them. But the yes, but that there's something very good scary about it and that he strikes at young people through their dreams. It's really scary. But often the way he does that is so goofy that it's not, it's not as scary as it could be, you know. Okay, so on scaryness, where does Freddie fall? So when I'm a kid, nine, as a grown up, I'm gonna say four. Yeah. But if I was reading, I feel like if I was reading a novel with the same premise, the same character, he might be up to an eight in terms of scaryness.

I feel like it loses a little something by the needs of movies, which like you have to see. I mean, text to Alan Dean Foster, see if you can crank out a quick thing for you. I mean, that would be amazing. That would be amazing. I'll, I'll, I'll just go down the middle of five. Okay. Imagine how much scary it would be if this was like a Richard Bachman novel.

Like if Stephen King wrote a Richard Bachman Freddie Krueger novel, it would be scary. It would be a scary book. And there'd be a lot of muscle cars. Yeah, that was muscle cars. I'm going to be complaining about how things were in as good as they were in the 50s. Yeah, and listening to do-up music and stuff like that, sure. Speaking in the most confusing slang you've ever dreamt of. So I will, I'm also giving Freddie a five. I feel like part of the, one of the challenges of this series is the ambition that they have kind of pushed the envelope as far as special effects in a horror movie or concern. But like it's hard for it not to, as you said, seem a little silly or chinsy at times. I would say with, but luckily I still like them.

I still think they're, yeah, I think they're still fun. I think there's a, there's a, except for a few exceptions, I feel like for me, massive special effects and horror do not fully mesh unless there's a really strong concept behind it. It's like, because I keep thinking about how they did it or, I mean, it's like, or when he turns into the sexy lady with the tongue that lashes out and ties the guy to the bed, right? And it's like, it's scary. It's, it's so silly.

It's having my friend wants. Really? Oh, no. Yeah, it was telling me. It sounds really scary. Okay. So, I think, I think, I think we can all agree that this next category might be Freddy's. That's right, star power.

Can we go above 10? Is that possible? Yeah, 10 out of 10. I mean, iconic look. He's got the sweater, the hat, the razor. The razor glove is, I can't believe we didn't talk about that in terms of scariness. That is, without that glove, I feel like Freddy does not get the chance to be in enough movies to really develop the goofy character that we've come to love and be able to play the game.

Right? Like that love with the blades on it is a brilliant idea. It's great. And Robert England, we got this set. He's got, he brings so much to that part. He's so good. Yeah, he's incredible. He's been using five points. 10 out of 10, 10s across the board. I would say like he is, I would put him up as probably the greatest, like continuing horror character performance, you know, and building that character. I would like other than, I guess I would have never continued. I feel like the, well, I'm sure we'll talk about it at some point, but like the original performance of leather face is so, there's something so

amazing in that. But it's hard to do a scary monster that talks and Robert England pulls it off really well, you know. Man, he's so good. Okay, so let's wrap it up with a lucky dip. This might, this might mess up for Eddie here. Dan, can you give me a number between one and 14? No doops. I'm supposed to remember everything we said before. I'll, I'll, I'll let you know, I'll let you know. Okay. Uh, I'll play it safe

and do one because I'm pretty sure we haven't done that. Oh, man. This is, this is, I think he's got this one on a scale of one to 10. How likely are you to want to have a beer with Freddie. I mean, look, obviously very funny guy got a lot of like chummy charm about him. I can see. He's a good storyteller. He's a rock. I can see him really loving, you know, kicking back at the bar. On the other hand, he is a child murderer plus question mark. So I think that that is a very trumping kind of part of it that I'm, you know, he's so charming, I'll give him his highs at two, but that's as high as I'm willing to go. Okay. A two from Dan Elliott. I high as I'm willing to go. Okay. A two from Dan, Elliott.

I feel like you go down to your local water and hole. Do you have Freddie Cruz? I feel like I'm going to give him a one in that I'm not inviting him, but if I happen through some machination of whatever plot I'm in to end up at a sort of Mos Eisley Cantina of Harbaid guys, then Freddie is definitely, and Freddie plops down at the stool next to me. I'm definitely talking to him for a while. Yeah.

And that limited scenario, you're right. He would probably be your best choice. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't reach out to a murderer of any kind to come and hang out with me. But if I happen to be in this, this, this, this monster bar, then, unless Dracula is there, then I think I'm going to talk. Then I think I'm going to talk to, I think I'm going to talk to Freddie. Now, is it a monster bar? Does it have a novelty song associated with it?

Yeah, yeah, it's going to be all into the monster bar. Who was that? I ain't to tell you, Ellen. Well, Elliot, while you were living in New York, there was a monster bar in New York. It was called the Jack on hide club. You know, I'm familiar with the Jack on hide club. I'm familiar. That's not exactly what I'm looking for. I never went.

Did you never go to the Jack on hide club? You would have loved it. You had a lift. It was the, I went there a bunch of times when I was a kid. It is the cheesiest thing in the world. It was the cheesiest thing in the world. You would have loved it. I mean, it's a kid.

I would have been more. I think it would have been life changing if Dan had, I think the whole trajectory, I can't put it off. I was like, the law will always be time. And you know what? It's not true. Yeah. That happened to me with, that happened to me with Mars 2112. I was like, I have to experience this dumb ass place, but I waited too long. Never got to know. Yeah. I'm only, I'm going to give Freddie a three. I mean, I think he's probably a good hang. The vibes are a little off. And of course, obviously, as we mentioned, he has like, let's say a complicated backstory. And also, I feel like there's some level of him, like I feel like he would be a pain in the ass for the bartender because he's just doing bits all the fucking time. And like, you know, sometimes I don't want

to go out with somebody who's going to overshadow me, you know, like he's got a big personality that can be a real drain. So you have selfish reasons not to go out with pretty. Selfish reasons. I would admit it. Maybe I'm the monster. I guarantee you, you will have the experience of Freddie Cruder that I feel like I've had, if I'm sitting in a bar outside of a major city where you're talking to someone you don't know, you're having a good time, you're getting along, they're real friendly. They say something that you do not approve of and you have to figure out how to extricate yourself from that conversation politely so that things don't go, don't go away, you don't want to, but you do not want to be in, Freddie Kluz is going to say something where you're like, okay,

I no longer want to be in a conversation with this person. Like I can't, I don't want to, I don't want to silently act we S on that, you know. Yeah, that's never happened to me as a bartender. It's a bartender. Yeah, unfortunately, you can't leave in that scenario. Okay. We have, we have some big scores here. We're going to tally him up next time because we have seven more baddies to rank. I can't wait. Thanks so much for playing

where this show is part of the Max Fun podcast network. There's tons of really fun and spoo keep podcasts out there for October. I am Stewart Wellington. I'm Dan McCoy. I'm Elliot Kaelin saying come on and see us October 19th at Videots, Videots Foundation, Android. Hey, Baa-ee! Baa-ee! Baa-ee! Baa-ee! Baa-ee!

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