The Flop House - The Flop House on The Novelizers

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

The Novelizers is a podcast that takes a beloved film, gives each scene to a TV comedy writer to novelize, and then gives those scenes to a comedian or actor to narrate. Plus interviews with the people who (may or may not have) made the original film.This episode has a chapter WRITTEN BY DAN MCCOY and READ BY JOHN HODGMAN! It also features an improvised interview with some people who "worked on the Matrix" (actually ELLIOTT KALAN and DAN MCCOY PLAYING SILLY CHARACTERS!) It's a must-listen podcast CROSSOVER EVENT! Check out their other episodes!

Hey, it's Dan here just with a brief message about what you're about to hear This is a feed drop of another podcast, but never fear. It is filled with Flophouse content It's got a thing that I wrote for John Hodgman to read the first written comedy I've done for John Hodgman since our old days working together on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart It also has me and Elliot doing some improv, in character, at length, a thing that we do not do on our own show, so I hope you enjoy it here. You know what? The show itself explains its premise right up at the top way better than

I will ever be able to, but I just wanted to sort of explain why it was here. We did a little crossover. It's about the Matrix. We did an episode about the Matrix, and we thought you guys would enjoy hearing the stuff that Elliot and I did for this other show. Today on the show, a very special crossover episode with the Flophouse Podcast, plus John Honjpyn. It's the novelizers.

Don't want your popcorn, don't want your milk tarts, don't want my shoes stuck in pools of sticky cola. Don't show me grown lips, don't show me fist fights, just show me words printed out under the booklights. Yeah, baby, novelize the movie. Give me sensitive paragraphs and nothing to see. Yeah, novelize the movie. Hi, I'm your host, Christine Bullen, here with Stephen Levinson and Kevin Carter, welcoming you to The Novelizers, a podcast where we take classic films, get TV comedy writers from shows like SNL, The IT Crowd,

The Daily Show, Colbert, and more to turn them into full-length audio books. Then we get a different actor or comedian like J.K. Simmons, Wayne Brady, Will Forte, Rachel Dratch, Ira Glass, Jake Johnson, Matt Mercer, and more to narrate each chapter. This season we're novelizing The Matrix, and this episode we're doing something special. See, it turns out we're not the only movie podcasts on the internet. That's right. There's also another one. It's called the Flophouse podcast and it's hilarious. The hosts, Elliot Kaelin, Dan McCoy and Stuart Wellington get together and talk about movies that maybe didn't do as well as the creators had hoped or as we call those in the business, flops. Whoa, whoa, whoa,

or as we call those in the business, flops. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, closer to 2199. He shows Neo around the Nebuchadnezzar ship, introducing the crew, and before he shows Neo what the matrix is, he gets stuck in the back of his head and is put into the construct, which is actually a computer program. He then shows Neo what he thinks the world is and what the world actually looks like.

Neo sees the truth and immediately wants out. Thanks, Kevin. Now here's the Flophouse podcast Dan McCoy, who also wrote for The Daily Show for over a decade. He's novelizing a chapter narrated by John Hodgman, star of the Judge John Hodgman podcast, Dick Town on FX Hulu, and books like Vacationland and Medallion Status. John Hodgman, novelize us! and medallion status. John Hodgman, novelize us. The Matrix, Chapter Nine, Kung Fu Tussle. Novelized by Dan McCoy, narrated by John Hodgman.

Neil woke up from the computer simulation in a cold sweat, like a formerly successful writer, whose career had been reduced to novelizing hit movies of the past. Who are all you people? He yelled at the crew of the Nebuchadnezzar. And why are you all dressed in artfully torn oversized sweaters like a bunch of Chris Evans's from Knives Out? Neo laughed hysterically at his own anachronistic joke,

which proved to be a mistake, as his meat space body soon gasped for air. Breathe, Morpheus suggested helpfully, as if that wasn't currently number one on his priority list. Neo collapsed to the ground, expelling the curdled milk from his mouth that he'd been saving in his cheek to enjoy later, I guess. Suddenly the camera focus went all blurry, which Neo took as his cue to pass out. He awoke some time later. Like a detective in an old pulp novel who was always quote,

awaking some time later, as if there's no way to check a goddamn clock. He lay on a bed that definitely 100% was full of bed bugs. Eww, everything's so grimy in the real world, he thought. Where do real world people buy these linens and itchy sweaters? Bed burlap and beyond? Morpheus sat in the shadows next to him, apparently one of those creeps who likes to watch people while they're sleeping. I'd better let him know I'm awake, Neo thought, before he starts taking pictures.

He ventured to question, I can't go back, can I? You can't go home again, said Morpheus, quoting the author Thomas Wolfe, who I bet never had to novelize any goddamn movies just to earn enough to buy his family frozen peas. I'm thinking…" Neo lay on his side, staring away from Morpheus in the traditional position for all young people getting lectured by Dad. "'Neo, I'm sorry. I made an oopsie.

Normally, we don't wake someone's mind up once they're past a certain age. lectured by Dad. Neo, I'm sorry. I made an oopsie. Normally, we don't wake someone's mind up once they're past a certain age. It's hard on them. It can cause a condition we call... Mindus Explodus. You know when that would have been useful information, Neo thought? When you were handing out the magic pills? Anyway, let's chalk that one up in the My Bad column.

Morpheus paused, in a way a person does who's about to justify their actions. Since you're in bed already, let me tell you a story. He handed Neo a glass of warm milk that he had scraped up from the floor where Neo had left it. Once upon a time, there was this guy who could see that he was in the Matrix. He was the first to wake people up. Neo started to zone out the

way he always did whenever someone started explaining their religious beliefs. He started to count little bits of bedbug poop he saw on the sheets. I'll spare you the irrelevant details of how one nude guy in a pot of gloop could possibly manage to wake other people up, or how they could then build complex airships that have the ability to jack into the Matrix." Morpheus droned on. Neo wondered when the chemtrails and fluoride would come in. His name was Quetzalcoatl, or Q for short. A great man. He saved us all from the mind virus

and taught us that people we thought were fellow humans were just NPCs. We believed we were woke, but only he could wake. Buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh. Morpheus' voice faded out as Neo drifted off to sleep. An hour later, Neo woke up just in time to hear Morpheus say, And that's why it's okay to shoot other people, Because they don't have souls the end.

Normally, Neo would panic that he'd missed something important while dozing, But to be honest, it was a pretty standard, chosen one narrative, so he had gotten the gist. Basically, the deal was there was a magic dude long ago who had borrowed a page from Jesus' playbook and died. And now, because of some prophecy by an oracle named in a kind of first thought kind of way, let's be honest, the oracle, Morpheus was convinced that the one kind of way, let's be honest, the Oracle. Morpheus was convinced that the One was gonna be resurrected any day now. Oh shit, Neo thought. Does this guy think I'm his Messiah now just because Neo is an anagram for one? That would be dumb. But he kept his doubts within. On the surface he just smiled at Morpheus and said,

cool story bro. Morpheus smiled back. It is cool, Broseph, he said smiled at Morpheus and said, Cool story, bro. Morpheus smiled back. It is cool, Broseph, he said. Tis the coolest story ever told. He arose and looked at Neo with an expression straight from the dictionary definition of portentous. He asked, Are you ready? For what?

Neo responded with barely controlled panic. He looked around the room for pictures of Kool-Aid or a pile of Xerox pamphlets, or worst of all, a baptismal. Your training, Morpheus said, and then left the room, leaving Neo to wonder, eh, am I supposed to, like, follow you or what? Like, I've been through a lot today. And then he drifted back to sleep. That evening, Neo sat on the floor enjoying a petty mall seizure from the Nebuchadnezzar's

constantly flickering lights. A muscular man, who was certainly large enough to be imposing, but nowhere near as large as a tank, walked in with the cockiness of the sort of movie actor who would demand a pay raise so large that his role would be recast if, for instance, that movie had two sequels. Hey, I'm Tank, he said, extending his acceptably muscular arm to shake hands with Neo. You don't have one of those... Neo gestured to the back of his head where his metal matrix port was. Brain anuses? Or brain-uses as we call them?

Nope. Me and my brother were 100% born in the real world. Neo wasn't really digging the star-belly-sneetches-are-the-best-sneetches-on-the-beaches energy this dude was bringing, but he ignored it, as the decidedly non-tank-sized man continued. I'm a genuine child of Zion. Zion? Neo asked politely. Oh man, it's rad. It's the last human city and it's like,

you ever go to a rave under a bunch of stalactites? It's so bitchin'. Don't worry, you'll see it for yourself in like half a movie. My band's playing this weekend. He handed Neo a flyer for his band, Tank Skankers. It's kind of like Ska Electric Lash, but we also had big gongs. Thanks, Neo said, mentally throwing the flyer in the trash. And why are you here? I'm here to stick my thing in your brainness and upgrade your software.

Moments later, Neo found himself in a sort of steampunk dentist chair, as tanks shuffled through some computer disks. Let's see. Encarta 97, Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards, ah, here we go. Fighting for dummies. He jacked Neo in, and the Chosen One shook as he had his first braingasm. Countless fighting styles flooded his neurons. Jiu-jitsu, jikun-do, wing-chung, wang-chung, Brazilian dance fighting, Brazilian wax fighting,

foxy boxing. That thing where you have a friend get on their hands and knees behind someone and then you push them over. The information coursed through Neo's brain. The ultimate power fantasy of getting to be really cool and good at something without ever having to actually practice. His eyes sprang open to meet the gaze of Morpheus, who had yet again wandered in to stare creepily at Neo while he was unconscious.

I know Kung Fu, Neo said. And also, Kung Fu, The legend continues. Whoa. Morpheus smiled, happy to see that he'd indoctrinated Neo into his little violence club. Well, let's see it. Grasshopper, he said. Suddenly the two of them found themselves in a spacious, airy dojo. This is a sparring program, Morpheus said. It has rules similar to reality, but you can bend the rules a bit. Sort of like corrupt Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Neo nodded, understanding. Okay then, Neo.

Hit me with your best shot. Fire away. Thwa, thwa, thwa, thwa, thwa! Neo yelled and waved his arms around in a way that anyone writing a novelization of a movie would definitely not be getting paid enough to adequately describe. Seriously. Like, what are you supposed to do with an action senior? Describe every punch? You've seen kung fu movies before, you figure it out.

Alright, anyway, even though he was doing a really good job at punching, it was no match at how good Morpheus was at punching. And then once Neo saw how good his mentor could punch, he backed off and he gave a little smile, as if to say, oh, I see. And then once Neo saw how good his mentor could punch, he backed off and he gave a little smile, as if to say, oh, I see. And then he ran up Morpheus' chest, kicking him and defying gravity, like some kind of wire-fu Looney Tunes character. But it turned out that Morpheus was good at kicking too.

So kicking-wise, it was also kind of a draw. But if you were seeing this, rather than having it described to you, it would look totally cool. Back on the ship, a character whose name I would have learned if the publishers had met my quote, ran into the mess hall yelling, fight, fight! And everyone ran to watch like, a fight? I gotta see this!

Even though presumably training happened all the time? But whatever, I get it. The only entertainment on the Unlebica Nezor was like one copy of Parcheese that survived the apocalypse. And if they wanted to watch TV, the only streaming service they got was Crackle. Can you imagine? Crackle. Gross.

Meanwhile, back in the danger room, Neo and Morpheus were doing a bunch of cool looking stuff. Like, at one point Neo ran up a wooden beam and flipped over as if to say, eat my ass, Donald O'Connor and singing in the rain. And then Morpheus gave a look and said, that don't depressa me much. And he kicked Neo into another wooden beam, breaking it, as if to say, cool it with the wooden beams, dude. The older man walked calmly toward the battered Neo to Morpheus' claim Neo's failure. You think I'm winning because I'm stronger than you? There are no muscles in the Matrix. There's no air that you're breathing. There's

no spoon. Oh, sorry, that line comes later. And then he casually kicked Neo in the face. It's all in your head, man. His words had the intended effect on Neo, who cranked his inner remote control to double time. Like the way you're probably listening to this podcast so you can finish in the bathroom before your supervisor notices you're not at your desk. And Neo did basically the same punching he was doing before, but this time really fast. And turns out, fast punching was a winning strategy. And Neo soon had Morpheus cornered up against his old nemesis, a wooden beam. Neo growled,

I know what you're trying to do. Morpheus shot back, I'm trying to free your mind. Free your mind? And the rest will follow. Before you can read me, you've got to learn how to see me." And then he turned his eyes skyward to address the ship. Tank, load the jumpy thingy.

Suddenly the two men were atop a skyscraper, and Morpheus was wearing a leather duster and strapless goggles, which, unlike when you wear that stuff, looked really cool. You gotta let it all go, Neo. Doubt. Fear. Yolo. You know? Then Morpheus ran toward the side of the roof and jumped high in the air all the way to the next building with a girlish, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Whee! Whoa! Neo said in a manner that could only be described as Keanu-esque.

His duster looks awesome when he does that. Neo backed up to get a running start. Okay, Mr. Anderson, he muttered to himself, it's time to make the donuts. Back on the ship, watching the action, Trinity bit her lip, hornily. This was her favorite part, the jumping. Neo sped toward the edge. He yelled as he absolutely biffed it hard. It was embarrassing. Neo plunged toward the hard concrete below, while Trinity gave a look that indicated that her horniness levels had plunged, in a manner not unlike Neo, off a building.

Fortunately, the concrete had been animated by Chuck Jones, so Neo bounced off it. Whee! he said despondently. Everyone fails the first time, Cypher said, showing a lot of empathy for a guy who's probably about to be revealed as a villain pretty soon. Right, Trin? Trin? But Trinity had already left to go to the next scene. Thank you, John Hodgman. Each week we talk to someone who actually worked behind the scenes on the actual film, The Matrix. And this week is no exception. Let's roll that interview.

All right. I am here with the special stunt support team for the film, The Matrix. I have Elliot Cailin and Dan McCoy here. Hi Elliot and Dan, how are you guys today? Oh, very well, thank you. Yeah, great, thank you so much for having us. Yeah, so special stunt support team. Tell me a little bit about what you did for the film. I'm not even sure what that means.

This is a role that is in, it's used more and more in movies now, but it was pretty new around the time that The Matrix was produced, when we were brought on board for it. And that is, you notice's used more and more in movies now, but it was pretty new around the time that The Matrix was produced when we were brought on board for it. And that is, you notice that in The Matrix, there's a lot of, what you call, I guess, special stunt choreography,

a lot of jumps where someone has to hang in the air for quite a while, or the scene where Count Reuse bends over backwards very far. And those scenes take an incredible toll on the muscles of a performer's body. In some cases, they are impossible to actually hold your body in that position for that amount of time on your own. And so Dan and I, our job was to literally be kind of like the organic pedestals, I guess you could say, to hold them up, to keep them in that position for

the extent of the shot. For instance, early in the movie, Carrie-Anne Moss, she jumps in the air, the camera spins around her. She's in the air the entire time. Nobody can do that. Yeah, that's impossible. Come on. It's impossible. It's science fictional that someone would be able to do something like that. So I was literally the one who kind of like held her up during that time. That's not an actual jump. That's me lifting her up above my head

and then holding her in that position while the camera spins. And then using technology that was very new at the time, they just paintbrush me out and it's seamless. You can't, you don't even know I was there, but I'm there holding her up. And similarly, Dan, do you want to talk about the Keanu Reeves bending over backwards all the time sequence?

That was your specialty. When Keanu would bend backwards to escape those bullets, I would be, you know, sort of down below him, uh, you know, as one would, if, you know, you were going to trip a person, but I'm not there to trip him. I'm there to provide quite the opposite. The support is the important thing in the special stud support team. Uh, we are like human exoskeletons, sort of, uh, you know, muscles on the outside. I like to think of myself as a human puppons sort of, you know, muscles on the outside. I like to think of myself as a human puppeteer almost, you know, helping

to manipulate the body so we can capture these amazing stunts. When it's working best, you're working as an extension of the actor's physical body, and it takes a lot of getting to know them, spending time with them, rehearsing with them to get to the point where it is just seamless, where you're working as one. And sometimes it's kind of hard to know when your body stops and their body starts. We get that close to it.

Wow, this is, I mean, I have so many questions. This is fascinating. I mean, first off, I am silly to have assumed this, but I really thought that all of that was like in post, that they would be, it looks like they're levitating. It looks like they're held in midair, but that that's actually something that they would be. It looks like they're levitating. It looks like they're held in midair, but that that's, you know, actually something that they're creating. It's a visual effect. They're creating a post.

But what you're telling me is you were physically there holding up these bodies for that duration of time. Is that correct? Yes, exactly. Wow. I mean, you know what? If we wanted to do it for the glory, we would be in front of the camera. It's fine that you don't know that we exist, but we are there. Well, we are in front of the camera, but then we're removed afterwards.

True, true, true. Well, and to be honest, I feel like that would sort of take away from the film if we actually do see you holding him up or her up, right? Well, that's an argument I had with the directors. I thought it would be kind of interesting, you know, like sort of a Michelle Gondry, you see the wires kind of thing, but ultimately they wanted to go in a different direction. Wow, but that's interesting. You actually pitched that on set to just stay in the film.

They wouldn't brush you out. I mean, sometimes it's the art that you see, that you appreciate all the more. It's the craft. Yeah, both of us studied a moon rock who puppetry in which the puppeteers are visible at all times. They're dressed in black, they're masked, but they're visible on stage and you kind of forget that they're there after a certain amount of time. So that was Dan's big pitch to the Wachowskis was that eventually the audience would forget he was there. They just get so used to seeing him that they wouldn't even know he was there

anymore. And that'd be in its way a more impressive illusion than if he wasn't there. And so they didn't know what they weren't seeing. An audience can't be impressed by what they don't know they're not seeing. But they can be easily impressed by what they are seeing and forget that they're seeing. An audience cannot be impressed by something they don't know they're not seeing. Wow, that is so true. If I don't know that there's that work going in, then I can't be impressed by that work.

So what you're saying is it's almost nice to kind of know how much went into this and then you get to reveal that now that you were into, I mean, so you were physically holding a body up for a very long time. And what's amazing about the work that you did, which is so impressive, is that they seem so still. They seem so still in

midair or like when he's leaning back, his movement is so seamless. I can't believe that you're actually underneath him holding him up because you're doing such a good job of making it seem like that's a skill that he has within this character, you know, really impressive. Well, thank you. It's very important to me that you say that. But it's also it's a hard thing to do. I had to tell Keanu, I'm like, look, I don't there's all of the weight that you can get off of your body right now would help me. Can't have your keys on set. Can't have your phone on set.

After several hours, that is going to add so much strain to me. He could not get home one day because he couldn't find his car keys. But I maintain that's his problem. He was so willing to work with you, though. He didn't wear socks. He didn't wear underpants. Anything that you do to remove just a milligram of weight to make the job that much easier for you. I really I give him credit for that.

That's interesting that you would have to say that to him about his keys and his phone. I didn't even know, you know, he would have had a phone or keys in his pocket on set. It's interesting you had to say that. That's interesting that you would have to say that to him about his keys and his phone. I didn't even know he would have had a phone or keys in his pocket on set. It's interesting you had to say that, but I'm so glad you did because it probably made your job in that moment much easier. Oh, so much easier. He's very forgetful. He's a very forgetful act. I mean, the thing is when he's in character, he doesn't forget. But when the minute he's out of character, he forgets. So it's like, well, where's my keys? Where's my phone? I mean, he's a very sweet guy, but he loses them a lot. So he always wants to have them on him.

So he's a special case. He's a special case. Carrie Anne, she didn't have her keys or a phone on her when I was picking her up for that big job. That feels very professional that she didn't have things in her pockets when she was filming. Also with the pants they were wearing often were too tight to really have too much in their pockets

because- Especially hers, yeah. Yes, yes, exactly. And you'd see it on camera and sometimes they'd have to paint that out if she forgot that she had like, she went to lunch, she put the receipt in her pocket, she just you know, you do you just kind of stuck in your pocket, you're not thinking about it. And then you can see this kind of like bulge where crumpled up receipt is they'd have to remove that they're already removing me from so many of these scenes. She goes to the bank, she picks up a dum-dum, you know, at the teller. Right. To have a sucker to have later. You can't have that in there. And it's so obvious if you have a sucker in your pocket and you're wearing super tight leather pants.

Like, I mean, no, you're not even going to mistake that for something else. Everyone knows that you went to the bank and you got a sucker, you know, and it's not professional. Only explanation. Yeah. And now they're wondering, did Trinity go to the bank? I didn't see that scene. Right. Is the bank in the Matrix world or is it in our world,

which is also kind of the Matrix world? It raises a lot of questions. And so then it's got to be painted out and that's more money that gets spent in the budget. That's more money that could go to painting out people rather than painting out things. This is such an interesting role. And this is the first I've ever heard of this role existing on a set.

Are there other films that you two have worked on where you've provided this kind of assistance to the film? We actually work a lot. There's so many, especially the introduction of the Marvel superhero movies has been fantastic. Those characters always jumping and flying and doing stuff like that. And so we do a lot of that. We do a lot of those newest Star Wars movies when Yoda was jumping around in the... I forget which people it was. I think the third one. That was a lot of me having to like pick him up and twist him around on set. And we did a lot of work in the Country Bears movie that came out a while back, not too long after The Matrix, because just because the costumes were very heavy. And so the actors were just having trouble

standing up in them. So you'd see, so Dan and I would be kind of leaning on them, just to keep them standing up straight, you know, that will not be stunts, just helping them out with the costumes. Human buttresses is kind of the way I viewed our work on that one. I remember on the set,

I just said we called ourselves the bear-tresses, which was very funny. We were the Bear Tresses. We got some jackets that said that. Yeah. Oh, I love that. You know, I have to say, you must both be very, very strong. You would think, but I'm quite a weak man.

And honestly, I'm not sure how much longer I can stay in this business or frankly, why I still get hired, because I have to take a lot of breaks. I would imagine, I mean, but that's not even, like, look, I have a three-year-old daughter and I have a hard time holding her up. I can't even imagine holding a grown human person above my head in a very still position

for an extended amount of time and not feeling quite overwhelmed. Yes. Well, that's when the training kicks in. That's when the breathing. Yeah. It's important to look at your breathing and to control that way, but it does take enormous

wear and tear on your body. You know, there are times when I'll be at home and I have to carry groceries and I just feel the pain all up and down the right side of my body, especially. And my wife was like, oh, you can pick up Chris Evans, but you can't pick up these groceries. And I'm like, you don't understand when I'm on set, it's like another person is helping me. It's like the spirit of everyone who's ever worked on a film is kind of inhabiting me and helping me that strength.

I kind of don't realize it because I'm performing, you know, in that moment. But when in regular life, it's very hard. It really does take a toll. And, you know, arthritis is a major problem for people in our line of work, uh, as is, you know, muscle boredom it's called when your muscles get, get, they get tired of being in one position, not just physically, but also kind of emotionally. It's very difficult. Oh, that's so interesting. That's so funny. I've heard of the term muscle memory,

but I've never heard of muscle boredom. Oh yeah. The muscle has an enormous amount of cognitive function that you don't often hear about. And the flip side of that muscle memory is, of course, muscle boredom. Yeah. Wow, that's so interesting. So were there days where you didn't have a lot to do on set? Maybe days where you were there, but they weren't shooting things where they needed a human body holding another human body.

Well, we did some other work on set and honestly, it was kind of an offshoot of our primary work. We were also responsible for polishing all of the black leather that was such a big part of the Matrix costuming. And you can imagine holding up people, we're getting our hands all over that leather all day. So we had squeegees, we had spray bottles. I can tell you so much about the proper care and feeding of leather because you really do need to feed it. It's a living thing. Oils and ambulance and you know.

It's that's why we're actually listed twice in the credits. First as special stont support and then also later under a wardrobe consistency technician. Just keeping that wardrobe looking consistent. Leather is very fingerprintable. It's very easy to crease, very easy to just get grease on it. And they serve so much fried food. And those actors eat it. And they eat it. I've been on sets before.

These actors, they eat greasy food all day long. All the time because if you're an actor, you don't know, you're like, great, I'm getting catered lunch right now, but I might not work for a while. I may not get food again for a while. It take me through a moment here where you're kind of, you know, doing both jobs in one day. Let's say one of you is holding up a body.

The other one is sort of supporting that. And then they call cut. The, you put Keanu or whatever other performer down and then you immediately grab some squeegees and you start kind of scrubbing them up? I mean, sometimes we have to work sort of in tandem, like a delicate ballet, you know, if there's movement required

and Elliot's moving a body part, as soon as he moves his hand, I might swoop in, quick little squeegee because the more work that can be done in camera, the less that stuff needs to be taken out in post. Yes. What you're describing now makes me think there actually is a lot happening in post because if you are in the shot and then you are squeegeeing, like they still have to

remove you from the shot. So to me, like, and look, I am not a professional, so this is why it's so interesting to talk to you guys about this, because to me, I feel like it'd be easier to edit out a smudge on a pair of pants than a whole human body actively scrubbing someone else's body in the shot, but I must be wrong. No, it's funny you'd think that, you'd think that, but the way that technology has developed,

it's actually the opposite. Danny, I think I cut you off, but you were saying, I'm sure exactly what I was about to say. Well, yes. I mean, like look, in terms of pure man hours, is it simpler? Maybe. But in terms of what looks good on camera,

like if you wanna make it look good, it's way simpler to do it our way. It's similar to how, when they were making Psycho, Alfred H. Hock was like, oh, I need blood to pour down the shower. Get me some chocolate syrup. And they said, no, we have real human blood for you right here.

And they tried it and it just didn't look like blood. It just didn't look like real blood on cameras. They had to use chocolate syrup. And I don't know what they did with that. Or where they got it. Or where they got it, exactly. Back then they could do that. The studio system back then,

oh, the stories that I've heard. It was a real waste of blood. I just want to mention, it's funny that Dan referred to it as a delicate ballet because that's really how I got into this. When I was young, I went to see the ballet, my family took me and I saw the male dancers lifting up the female dancers. And it just I was like, that's what I want to do. I found the thing that I want to do with my life.

And I'm so lucky that I got to live out that childhood dream. Because unfortunately you had no talent for dance per se. Yes, the little bit of time that I spent trying to learn the dance was a mistake. That was a waste of time and I apologize to everyone who was hurt during that period. But the lifting I found I had a talent for. And I remember when my teacher said to me, you need to leave this studio right now, but I want to see you lifting people or you've wasted your life. And I think about it all the time. Think about it all the time. Wow, that does feel like one of those comments that sticks with you. So am I right to assume that the two of you sort of invented this job and maybe this is the beginning of this being a role on a film set? Yes, that's true. We sort of hung out our shingle and I'll tell you something, for many, many years,

people were like, why? You know? But it just takes getting one foot in the door, a foot that we are holding up and Hollywood opened up for us. And I have to say, I'm sure most, if not all, great artists in the history of time have had someone say, why?

When they first started, you know? like, I'm sure Picasso got that. So it really feels like you guys knew in that moment, like, I'm going to keep with this because I know there's something special here. We've used that Picasso comparison a lot actually in conversation with each other. And yeah, you're right. When, when, when he was first started painting pictures of people that are all messed up and broken into pieces and kind of mushed around, I'm sure people were confused by it.

Is this even really painting? And that's kind of the way they felt with us. Early on, a lot of the time we'd get told, why can't we use wires for that? And luckily, choreography has gotten so intricate and so complicated. You got a tingly problem. Yes, exactly.

And I remember there was one job, I won't say the name of it. There was one director who said, no, I'm going to use wires. And then the wires got tangled and they came to us kind of sheepishly. And we said, we'll do it, but we're going to charge you three times what we're going to charge you before just because of the insult. Shame on them. Anyway, that was James Cameron. I said I wasn't going to mention his name, but I did. I think it's fair. And the movie was Titanic. Yes. And the movie. Shame on them. Anyway, that was James Cameron. I said I wasn't gonna mention his name, but I did.

I think it's fair. And the movie was Titanic? Yes, and the movie was Titanic, exactly. Yeah, oh, so you met, I mean, because we also, he said, I don't wanna credit you in this. I'm gonna just say we did it with wires, because he was mad at us.

And we said, then you're gonna have to pay us more. So they actually paid us a no credit fee. But all that stuff. Kate was just, could not, she could not stop slipping off that desk that was floating in the water. I was just gonna ask you what scene was it? Because I don't remember a scene where there was someone being held up.

So were you under the water? Yes, so we had scuba gear and we were actually balancing the desk with one hand and we each had another hand on her ankle to kind of hold her in place on that. Because she's a naturally slippery person. She's a very talented actress, but naturally slippery. And it was hard work.

It's sort of like the beginning of the Muppet movie, you know, where Kermit's playing in the middle of a swamp and you're like, where's where's Jim Henson? It's you know, it's all done with scuba gear and such. And frankly, you know, I'm glad that Cameron came through with the money. But I'll tell you a little secret. We kept doubling our salaries so often. That's a lot of why Titanic cost as much as it did. Well, I always like to say in these interviews, you know, you have a platform

right now, is there a project you're working on where, you know, you, you'd love to see if you can get some traction here and just talk about it a bit? Dan, do you want to talk about Island of the Floaters or should I talk about Island of the Floaters? Why don't you talk about it? So Island of the Floaters is an idea we've talked about where it's a world where everyone is hovering about three and a half, four feet off the ground at all times, and it's a romantic comedy.

You know, it's really fun. It's silly. There's a lot of heart to it, but everyone's always floating. And so this is our chance. We feel like to employ all the people that we want to employ working as stunt supporters and we'll be, and there'll be times in the movie where you'll see it happening. We will finally see the people holding them up, not the whole time,

but we'll ease you into it. It starts out there just floating and you're like, how is this happening? And then over time you start to see the support people and then eventually you just see just the support people and the people, the actors that we're holding up aren't even on screen anymore. They're still there. They're the ones that get painted out. Exactly.

Exactly. How fascinating. That is so what a cool idea. I mean, look, it feels pretty unique as far as I'm concerned and quite a project, quite an undertaking. But I think if there's anyone who could do it, it seems like you guys are you're the pair, you know? We hope so. I mean if there's anyone who could do it, it seems like you guys are, you're the pair, you know? We hope so. I mean, Hollywood's been afraid of it.

Well, they keep telling us, you know, like there's no screenplay or story reason why these people need to be floating. And we're like, well, we're the reason, you know, Hollywood. Well, and the reason is the title. Exactly. You get it. The Island of the Floaters, like that's the reason. So that's almost confusing. They don't get that, you know? Yes. It's like if you make Star Wars, it's got to be among the stars. If you just call it wars, it doesn't have to be. The title is the foundation that you build all that on and that tells people what to

expect. So you got to do it for the title. Sometimes people in Hollywood just don't get it. You know, Amen. Gatekeepers. Well, I have to say this has been such a wonderful interview getting to know the two of you learning about this role on a set that I never even knew existed.

And I just thank you so much for your time today. Thank you. Yeah, thank you very much. We really appreciate your help with us getting the word out about this work. It's just so important to us. I think it will continue. It sounds like you have a really cool thing

on your hands here. Oh, pun. And that's our show for today. Thank you to the Flophouse podcast, Elliot and Dan, plus John Hoffman. Join us next week for a chapter novelized by new girl Steve Agee and narrated by David Dossmulsion, who you've seen in Dune, Oppenheimer, Suicide Squad and Late Night with the Devil. Till then, Steven, unplug us from this matrix.

You got it. The novelizers is produced by me, Steven Levinson, with Graham Douglas, Kevin Carter, Christine Bowen, Dennis DiClaudio, Rob Cudner, and Suchetis Bokel. Music by Cole Emloff, graphic design by Crystal Dennis, theme song by Andrew Lin, performed by Knott's. Special thanks to Chris Karwowski, and WYSO Radio in Yellow Springs, Ohio. The Novelizers is a work of parody unauthorized by Warner Brothers. Follow The Novelizers on Instagram, threads, Facebook and TikTok, and please donate to

our Patreon. Copyright 2024, Novelizers LLC. Take us out, Amy Mann. There was a matrix made of computers. There was a guy who could dodge all of the bullets He lived and flew, lived just like a fetus But he was born again like baby Jesus Come and analyze that movie Write a book and also read it to me