The Glass Cannon Podcast - Cannon Fodder 3/27/24

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

Troy and Joe put some finishing touches on the flat check conversation from last week before getting into this week's episode of the GCP! Joe tries to explain what the hell he was thinking in pushing the party to check just one more room, and Troy gets into some deep detail on how Hazards in PF2E are a different beast to manage. In We Are Stupid, a final chapter in the Recall Knowledge saga and Professor Eric's thoughts on our hybrid remaster gameplay. In Listener Mail, what do when your party walks right by the item that ties the whole adventure together, and isn't it about time we did longer episodes? Watch the video here: https://youtu.be/wGvSTG_-Krc For more podcasts and livestreams, visit glasscannonnetwork.com and for hundreds of hours of exclusive shows and benefits, make your membership official and join Glass Cannon Nation today by becoming a subscriber at jointhenaish.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You are listening to the Glass Cannon Network, the premier source for role-playing game entertainment. Welcome to Cannon Fodder, a behind-the-scenes look at the Glass Cannon Network. Yo! What is going on everybody? Welcome back to Cannon Fodder. It is Wednesday, March 27th, 2024 and I'm your old pal Joe O'Brien. And I'm Troy, got my ice don, and I'm ready to roll a valley ice dunkies

Hmm how often do you do the ice? Dunkies or how often do you do? Dunkies coffee in general like is it an everyday thing is it a once a week thing? We make my wife, and I make 12 cups in the morning, and we split those It's a 12 cup maker. We fill that and so we're done that point. You're not joking. Yeah 12. It's a 12 cup maker. We fill that. And so we're done that by like- Wait, you're not joking? Yeah, 12 cups. It's a 12 cupper. It's not like a full eight ounce cup, but it's 12. We make all 12 cups. We drink all that and then usually in the afternoon, five to seven

times a week, we get a donkey. Oh my god. Like, because you need that second caffeine boost to get through the rest of the nonsense. And so, yeah, we'll do a donkey run. That is just staggering to me. So it is, how many cups of coffee do you drink in a day? I mean, a cup is such a nebulous, we're talking eight ounces, we're talking 16, we're talking a mug full.

A mug full. A mug full of coffee. Probablyrus Well, this is a lot. This is probably like – how many fucking ounces is this? Trevor Burrus 32 ounces. Aaron Ross No, I mean at least, dude. So I don't know, four or five probably. I'd like to drink less but I just really like coffee and I'm like – I don't eat in the morning anymore.

I eat later on in the day so like I need that coffee to have some sort of substance in my body. Okay. All right. Well, it sounds like you're not treating yourself, right? So be careful. I like coffee. Coffee is not bad for you. It's like anything, man, in moderation.

Five cups a day, live forever. Man, if I had one cup in the morning, I'd just be like, oh, five cups a day. That is just wild. Welcome back everybody to the FOD. Troy is back. Hey. Could not join us last week. We had the players only meeting.

It was fantastic. How was that? Was that fun? Oh my God. It was so fun. I mean, it's just a bit. I didn't realize that the whole thing was going to be a bit. It wasn't the whole thing.

It was, you know, when we got into the hot topic of the D20 flat roll, the flat check rather, we did kind of a bit. But plenty of actual points were made. It was really fun. It was really fun. Good, you have to pick my brain about it. I'm not sorry I missed it, but I think what's fun about that is it seems like you guys were having fun. And it just lets the audience know like, what's

a big deal to you is not a big deal to us. Yeah, yeah, it was it was really fun going back over it. And, and, oh, yeah, well, we'll talk we should talk about it. We'll talk about it a little bit today. But a couple news items first, then we'll get into this week's episode, as well as you know, if you'd like to talk about two weeks ago's episode, absolutely. A nice, nice we are stupid submission from Professor Eric and then of course, listener mail will round it out with talking back to the nation. So quick news items really light on news today. First of all, don't forget to check us out on twitch.tv slash the glass cannon and watch

Troy and I streaming video games. You're streaming today two o'clock Eastern. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Sounds right. No, no, no. That's me.

I'm streaming today. Oh my God. I'm recording time for chaos. Right. Exactly. I'm streaming today two o'clock Eastern. Hell divers. We're back.

We're diving in. And I and Sydney. What's that? The whole team's back. Mary Lou is not going to be able to make it this week, so I believe we're slotting in McD. So I think McD is going to play with us. It's going to be great. McD and I, Paula and Sydney. So that should be a fun run. So two o'clock Eastern today, live on our Twitch channel.

And then you're going tomorrow, two o'clock Eastern Thursday with some more Baldur's Gate 3. So yeah, man. It's a whole new game. Act three, act three, I was like, all right, home Yeah, man. It's a whole new game. Act 3, I was like, all right, home stretch. Nope. It's like you have to just tell yourself you're starting a brand new game.

It is so massive and so out of control and I'm so mad because I just want to finish it. I was just reading an article about it about the developers coming out and saying that there will never be any DLC and there will be no more D&D. Their next project is not Baldur's Gate 4, essentially. Well, they had a falling out, I think, with Watsi. I think Watsi like, I don't want to tell tales after school, but I think they Watsied them. They were like, thank you for all your work. You're all fired.

Something like that. So, like, Larian is like, go fuck yourself. We'll go make something else. Yeah, I heard it, of course, is more of the politically correct, not correct, but politically safe. Like, we just need to stretch different creative muscles, you know, like that kind of thing. But it was interesting. And I liked the kind of the stance of like, no, we're not making more DLC because this game is done. We built it and we made all of it and it's done.

Just because it's wildly successful doesn't mean we're going to just like try to just like you know, just draw more blood from the stone and try to make more money off this. Like we'll go do another thing because everything we do crushes. They're very good at what they do. So I like that kind of confidence. Give us a quick tour update before we get into this last week's episode of the GCP. I mean, we got several sold out VIPs and more tour dates coming soon, right?

Yeah, let's see. So we are a month away. We are now less than a month away from Kansas City and Austin. Looks like Kansas City, when was this shit updated yesterday? Kansas City is still not 50% sold. Now it's a big house. It's a big house. So I'm not, it's like, it's actually no, it's not a respectable amount of tickets. We played smaller like post COVID, but like, come on Kansas City, get your head out of your ass.

Now Austin is hot. Austin is around 78% sold, but there's still like 60 something tickets left. I would love to sell out Austin. If we sell out Austin, I think there's a good chance we'll come back to Texas next year. If not, then it'll be a couple of years, but Austin's coming out strong. And then obviously Vancouver and St. Paul. Vancouver's looking good. And then St. Paul, St. Paul's pretty close to a sellout.

60 something left there. Denver though. Brutal in Denver. I don't know what's going on. I guess people don't like skit anymore. It's a big theater. Okay. It's like close to 400, which we've never done 400.

A lot of Buggles haters out there. Dude, brutal. Nashville's looking okay, but even Nashville isn't great. But obviously we've got a lot of fish to fry that weekend. However, in two weeks, the tickets will go on sale for the rest of the tour. Both shows in Indianapolis at Helium Comedy Club and then another Kala Katulu live show at the Atheneum. That's going to be during Gen Con and then of course Boston in September, Portland, Oregon

and Los Angeles in October and the Philly City Winery Show. All those tickets are going to be going on sale I think in about two weeks. We were going to do next week but I need more time. Yeah, sounds good. We'll update you in the next two weeks as those tickets roll out. Roll out. But yeah, good update for now. Couple tickets left in Nashville, VIP.

It looks like there's just two or three tickets left. So if you want to come to Nashville and do VIP, you got to grab those now. That is what McDermott said to me this morning. So double check that. And yeah, otherwise, looking forward to these other shows. Let's get into the Glass Cannon podcast, the Gatewalkers, John Jamsky, wild. Okay. You know what? Let's do it in chronological order. Let's talk about last week. Is there anything that you want to say about this flat check?

Because I don't know. Here's the rope. Go hang yourself. I mean, dude, I didn't listen to fodder because I don't care. And also, I just think it's, here's my two cents on this and no one's going to like it, but I don't care. It's like, first of all, it was a correct ruling that just came at a bad time. Do you know what I mean?

Two seconds before, I said, hold on, hold on, hold on. You got to do the flat check first. Whether that hadn't been established in previous episodes and we certainly did it different in the past, it was like moments before that I was like, yo, yo, yo, gotta roll a flat check first. So like that was established. Why was that established by the way? And where did that come from? It's in the rule book. It's in the rule book. So I was like, as I'm feeling more comfortable with the rules and you and I are spending all this time on cannon fodder, hammering this down with Professor Eric. I want to play it closer. So you kind of decided from now on you're gonna

have it be first. Yeah, because dude it was an early episode Early episode in Gatewalkers when I was like, ah, it's more fun to do it the other way But then I realized why the the spirit of the rule is you do it first and so we just change it But anyways, it's neither here nor there seconds before I was like make sure you roll the flat check I think what happened was like This is the part no one's going to like. You guys were struggling with the fight and that crit was going to give you an easy out and I was not going to give you that easy out.

You know what I mean? Like it was a shitty timing. I feel bad for Kate, obviously, but like this is a player thing. Players when they struggle want things to be as easy as possible. They wanted what I thought was a free crit. I'm not going to give you that free crit. Especially when it's one enemy against five PCs, I'm not giving you a fucking inch. Oh, you can't hit the enemy because she's got all these things she can do. Oh, Dr. 20. It's like, hold on. Slow down. What are we rolling here? That's the other

thing. It's like players just start rolling dice. It's like, can we slow down? If you watch the other camera angle, like as she's rolling, everybody's talking, I'm like... and then the natural 20 came, everybody starts celebrating. I'm like, everybody hold your horses. This is the motherfucking flag check. Hold them horses. Also, the tone changed when Matthew got mad. Matthew got mad. If you see, I'm very apologetic.

I'm like, I'm sorry. And then the tone shifted. And I decided to leave that in because to me, that is like, that's fucking gaming tables. That's the gaming tables we play is like, people get a little heated. I wasn't getting heated, but I also wasn't going to fucking back down either.

Dude, remember some of those Jade Regents sessions? Oh my god. Like 19 beers in, and then like one little thing is like a little off and all of a sudden there's just like a heated, heated, heated debate discussion, fight, whatever you want to call it. And listen, I know it's probably uncomfortable to watch, but like there's this, there's a lot of different ways to do this, this actual play. I think there's this big tendency in actual play for this kumbaya theater kid energy. I fucking hate it.

It's not realistic to the games that we play. When people start getting fired up, not only am I going to leave it in, I'm going to stoke the flames because I think that that's interesting. Now, other people may disagree, but that's what makes our show different. Those table arguments, those disagreements, it's uncomfortable, but it's reality. I loved leaving it in. It didn't have to get all heated, but that's reality, not this other stuff. So okay, well-

That's my two cents. I guess I don't want to feel like going over all this again, because we did it all last week. But I do there, you weren't there to answer a couple questions. So I guess one is, you know, how much would you say the rule factored in to your ruling, The rule factored in to your ruling versus the easy out or the making sure that there's no breaks for the players in this particular situation. Oh, 75-25. Like 75%. Meaning the rule 75? Yeah, the rule 75 and 25%.

Like, no, I'm not giving you an easy out. You literally, no one could hit the broadside of a barn. And I think that that like the ire came from their struggle here and we just need a break. Well then pick better tactics and roll better. That's how I feel as a GM. Like I think everyone is just looking- Pick better tactics and roll better. That's the thing that gets people pissed off particularly.

Yeah. But dude, everybody wants a fucking freebie. And like, especially when it is an unmodified encounter meant for four PCs, one enemy against five. I'm not going to give you an inch. I will never give you an inch. Yeah. Well, I do think that sometimes you got to just accept the fact that you have rolled in such a way as a group that like you will fail. You will fail and it's because of how you rolled. It's not necessarily how you played.

It's because of how you rolled. All right. So let me ask you this question. This was from last week. I can't remember if it was ever mentioned on air, but it's referencing last week and it's a listener mail question from Andrew Yu in Roseville, Minnesota. The real question everyone wants answered is if Kate had rolled a six on the role she

intended to be her attack, which would be a miss, but would pass on the flat check, would Troy have stepped in and used that role for the flat check or have that role count as the miss on the attack? Whatever she rolled first was the flat check. Okay, so that's the 75-25. Even if that would have been the easy out, because she thought that was her attack, and it would be a miss, and that would be an easy, you know,

the easy out would be to let her have it as the flat check, you would let her have it as the flat check because of the 75-25. Yeah, whatever she rolled first, that was gonna be the flat check. Like if I cared more about this, I would like go find the footage because you can see me on camera

because I'm watching this with Francis. That's why I went back to it and I'm just like, hold on, hold on. Wait, before you, ah! People get excited, they like rolling dice! I'm sorry, I'm sorry, that's the flat check. Seconds ago, I told you this. Well, we had so much fun.

It was a fucking great fodder last week. It's just, I wish we could do it more often. And I saw a lot of great comments and people loved it. And I like, I get it. I get it. Like, why isn't the FOD like this all of the time? It's like, because of time. It's time.

We don't have the time. It's brutal, but I wish we could do that all the time. All right, let's get to this week's episode. What happens in this week? This week. This is the week. All right. There's one thing to me that really, really jumps out, which is like, this is the episode

where for some reason I got it in my head that we needed to look into one more room before we rested. And it is such a classic, ridiculous mistake that like I just wave people off of all the time, but like I can't explain it. I can explain it. In this particular situation, I just felt like with all of these intelligent enemies that are in this area, that an open stairwell with no door and no

and a complete question as to what is just is right up there is not a great place to bed down and rest. And so like just take a peek. And then I don't know why like I should have just I say this all the time, like no matter how unrealistic or ridiculous it seems, just say, I'm sitting down right here right now and resting. And if the GM is like, that's so realistic, you and Jared do this all the time. You hate in dungeon resting.

I'm like, fine, then send in an enemy. Like fine, break up the rest. Call the GM's bluff. Call the GM's bluff. Exactly. Like you don't like it? Fine. Do something about it.

Change the world state to make it happen. So I just, but I don't know what I was thinking. Like after the fact, I was just like, what on earth was I thinking? Because it's a classic case of why, like everybody says something and then one idiot says something else and it moves the entire party in a direction

that they should not have gone. I mean, it was so awesome to watch from my perspective because I was like, oh my God, they're going to do it. And they're sending Sydney, who's the one that has no spells left and no way of defending herself. But then it's just like it's a sickness. Like it started to spread like a plague. Everybody starts going up the stairs.

At one point you're like, what does everyone do? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because everyone can just get away. The hazard will reset. Oh, god. It was so funny. So funny. Oh, yeah.

It was so funny. It's so ridiculous. So you, I think, got, as a GM, you had a little dream situation there, right? Not the literal dream we'll talk about later, but to have the players just, regardless of the resting situation, just walk right into a hazard,

not perceiving it ahead of time and having it come out behind them. Talk about this trap and how it works and how it sort of like, how it got set off. Did you do a secret role? Yeah, I'm trying to think, off the top of my head, I'm stalling here while I'm looking it up. But I believe it was a magical trap, which requires the players to ask for the check. You know, it's not like a check that just has a a, which

would call it a perception DC. Yeah, like or a, a, a, you have to have a guy can't think of the word, but it's like you have to at least be trained. A proficiency level, right? Expert in perception. Yeah. Yeah. I think when it's magical or whatever, um, you have to, you only, uh, get the role if you like actively say you're using the search at like explore.

We don't really do the exploration mode, whatever, but actively say you're using the search, like explore. We don't really do the exploration mode, whatever, but like you have to actively search for it. And then I would be like, okay, what's your present? And I roll it. And so that didn't happen. And you just walked right into it. It's great. But then you just, they just kept walking into it. I was like, all right, let's rock and roll. They just kept coming up. Yeah. And it was a cool one because it had this thing. I'm not able to find it fast enough, but it does something, right?

Then everybody rolls for initiative. It only really gets to attack. I shouldn't say too much, but once its routine is enacted, it's like the more people in the room, the worse it is. Oh. Yeah. Oh my God. You must have just been so psyched. Oh my god. I just kept going to the stairs.

All right, great. This is so much fun. Great. Awesome. We've talked ad nauseam about like there's nothing better than setting off a trap. And I mean, y'all just kept setting it off and off and off. I know. I think it was Kate was the first one or maybe it was Skid to just like run in with her. You know what I mean? And I was just like, whoa, what are you doing? Look, I've already made a grievous error here. Let's just run away. You know what I mean?

And Sydney's like, I pull out my katana. I swing it at this painting. I'm like, just get the hell out of the room. What are you doing? Hazards are appearing left and right in any 2EAP I play, and they're a real bastard. They're a pain in the ass to deal with. I find them to be kind of a mix between old school traps and old school haunts. They always seem to have these weird DCs.

They have a lot of layers of complication. There's ways to disable them easier than others, they have a lot of layers of complication, there's ways to like get to disable them easier than others and you have to try to puzzle it out, you know, it's like, and then it's, you never seem to be equipped to just deal with it easily, you know? So the idea of just like hitting paintings to death, I was like, I don't see it going that way. Of course, you know, I don't really know how to disable it. But you mentioned the fire and all the burning on the walls. You know, maybe that has something to do with it, but we never really got a chance to test

it. But yeah, it's just hazards are a bastard. Yeah, and magical ones are they're, they're, they're, they're brutal. Like it's best to just get the fuck out of there. You know, these things did have a HP and a hardness, you know, that's one way you the fuck out of there. These things did have a HP and a hardness. That's one way you could get out of it. These are back-to-back hazards because there was the corpse disposal hazard in the previous room, the room that you're camping in.

It's like back-to-back hazards and the other one was a mechanical one. This one was a complex magical one. Whenever I come up against hazards, I read the rules over and over and over again. I make myself a cheat sheet and then once I get through the episode, I just remove all that information about hazards from my brain. I'm like, all right, I'll relearn this again next time. But I'm feeling a lot more comfortable with it. The basic – and I think it was complicated in one-e too.

Not even – maybe complicated isn't the right word. Makes us sound dumb. But it was just layered in a way. Not even – maybe complicated isn't the right word. Makes us sound dumb. But it was just layered in a way that works differently from the regular game. And so you have to kind of stop, slow down, rethink how you're playing the game and then get back to your regularly scheduled program. And it's the same thing here. It's like minimum proficiency is the word that I was looking for. It's like a mechanical trap has a minimum proficiency and you get it for free if it's

not magical. As long as you're of a minimum proficiency and you get it for free if it's not magical. As long as you're of the minimum proficiency, you don't even have to be actively searching for it. A magical trap, you have to be actively searching for it and it could have a minimum proficiency. Then on top of that, there are complex traps or complex hazards that have like a trigger and some shit happens. Then it rolls for initiative and then it's got a routine that it follows on its initiative.

That's what this one was. What was this thing's thing that happened? It peeled off the wall. Did it attack at all? I don't remember if it didn't get a free attack in, did it? Yeah. Its trigger is it makes a spear strike. Okay.

So it's trying to strike. I didn't realize that. Then when everybody walked in and then when its routine came around, it makes a spear strike. Okay. So, spear strike against Sidney Rice. I didn't realize that. And then when everybody walked in and then when his routine came around, it got a spear strike against everybody. Wow. You know, I can say this because we've already recorded ads so you guys know more, but yeah, I mean, it's a – when you get like a complex magical trap – You talked a little bit about the trap in the episode after we got out of there, but

– A complex magical hazard is the crème de la creme of hazards and that's the stuff you want to, you know, can be pretty nasty, especially ones where like you've got to figure out you've got to get through this. So you either have to wait till it resets or figure out how to stop it. Some of them have hardness and hit points. Some of them there's like other shit you got to do. Do you remember some strange Aeons traps and hazards being so I'm like there's no way they're

going to end this trap. Remember the one with the birdcage? Yes, that's the first thing I thought of. It was the birdcage. Everybody starts floating towards the ceiling That the the infirmary or the asylum rather had so many crazy Haunts haunts. Yeah haunts. Oney haunts. Yeah. Yeah All right. Well, let's go toward the end of the episode. We finally get out of there we say like all right, let's we let's actually rest now. Let's bend down and rest.

And you decide to pick this moment, I guess. Maybe it has something to do with the spikes. We don't really know. Is it a fever dream where you don't really know a little mid fever dream? Cliffy, I think this might be one of our first dream Cliffys ever. Except for the first episode of the series. What's that? Except for the first episode was a dream Cliffy.

Well, yeah, yeah, that's true. But yeah. Oh, yeah, I guess it was. That's right. That was the end of that episode. So talk to me about the dream. And when did this develop? When did you decide Kate? Did Kate know about it? Was she involved at all? Like, how did this all come together? When Kate sent me the backstory scene that I sort of reworked for the show, I was like, perfect, I'm gonna use this to be a dream. I'm gonna take the kind of bones of this

and do what I want with it, similar to what I did with your original backstory in episode one. I kind of said, okay, I'm going to play this into a dream sequence. So I was just, I prepped this dream sequence and I was really just waiting for you guys to rest, trying to find the perfect time for it to happen. You know, I thought it was going to happen a lot sooner after the initial, you know, flashback that we did with her seeing her friend and

being at her friend's funeral, but it ended up being like six or seven episodes between. The added fact that she fell down the pit and doesn't know if she contracted some sort of disease from these spikes just made it all, I mean, I was just like, what a great gift to have this, the timing of it be so wonderful. Cause now you're like, is this, is my mind playing tricks on me? And I think it'll be an interesting way to kind of get Zephyr and Ramius talking and get you guys, you know,

we haven't really seen too much interplay between those characters. And now you've got something shared to discuss. So it was great. Cause like I could have had you guys just rest and go into the next room, but I was like, oh my God, I'm looking at the clock. I'm like, perfect.

We can end the episode right here. And the episode on a dream. Uh, this is very interesting. Again, it's, it's why it's tough to have you on the FOD. It would be great to just have Kate here to like talk it out, right? Because like, you know too much. And so I'm very interested. I'm like, what does this masked figure, this masked horned figure

have to do with the missing moment or Kniepo or you know what I mean? Like I don't see any connections yet. So like I'm curious to see like how this is all going to to come together. But it's cool that for the first time we see it in another character, 25, 26, 27 episodes later. It's such a weird fucking adventure, man. Now that we're like, it's one thing to read it, it's another thing to play it. I'm like, it's kind of all over the place and I could see some people not connecting with it because of that.

But I do think the payoff is going to be sweet for people who enjoy a good mystery because that's ultimately what this is. It's a it's a big giant bucket mystery. Big giant chunky mystery. All right. Well, let's let's do a professor Eric has to say love checking in with old Professor Eric. Let's do a little we are stupid.

We are. Thank you, Nicholas. We are stupid. Thank you, Nicholas. Not too much on the stupid end this week, but Professor Eric is diving into more. And I'm excited to talk about this actually. We've talked about it a lot lately, but I want to do one more,

kind of put a button on it on recall knowledge. So recall knowledge is, this is what I love about Professor Eric. I really appreciate his thoughtfulness in the way that he lays things out and the way that he exhibits so much experience from so many different tables of different players and different GMs in PF2E. And that's a really good important thing, right? Because you want to have those, that kind of sample size over time. So he put together kind of a thoughtful essay on recall knowledge because we talked about

it a lot in this episode. How we approach it, the changes in the remaster with asking questions. Matthew posits that maybe we should be waiting around or two to see what an enemy does so that we can ask more specific questions about what they do. And so kind of laying this all out, I want to bring this up to you for discussion because I think it's just great. So sparked by Matthew's discussion, pre remaster. So in the remasters, when they wrote in the rule that like a player could ask a question

of the GM, but before that, it was just like give useful information. So pre remaster, Professor Eric found that most GMs would fall into three camps. First, on a successful recall knowledge, give the most obvious clue details that remove common meta gaming. So that example is like trolls regeneration, right? skeletons are weak to bludgeoning and resistant to slashing. Stuff that players already know, it's so widespread. Dragons have breath, a breath attack, right?

Like things that players already know, but sometimes players will have their characters spend around acting like they don't know in order to be more in the character's shoes. But that can be, kind of feel like a wasted recall knowledge check, right, for the most obvious stuff. Do you remember an old Giant Slayer episode where Skid was like, I've always played it

like my character knows essentially what I know. Yeah, like I know the trolls ever generation. I know that dragons have a breath attack. Yes, I always thought that was an interesting way to play it. Yeah, because and Professor Eric has this exact line, quote, since a lot of players often feel like their competent characters might already know this baseline of knowledge. You know, so that's a good point and exactly how Skid thinks about it. The second camp, what is most useful to the asking character?

So if it's a caster, you would reveal their save, the weakest saving throw or weaknesses to fire or ice, whatever. If it's a martial character, the presence or absence of reactive strike, other reactions that they might have to melee combat, inability to flank, a bonus to sneak attack, like that kind of stuff. Then the third camp is what is the most interesting and neat about this particular monster? You want to show off this monster. It's a really double-edged sword here though.

What makes this creature really unique and fun? This is what I, as a GM, what I want to give for the successful recall knowledge. The problem with that is that it can be extremely valuable to the players and it often ends up to quote professor Eric quote making it often ends up making the combat less interesting as the party might avoid situations that would let the creature shine. So I feel like you are in a camp where you never give like the special thing about this creature on a base recall knowledge success. Would you say that's accurate? Yeah, it's probably pretty accurate. You would have to roll really high, right? You'd have to get a natural 20, something like that, or ask the right question.

So that's where we come into post remaster. So this is now advice to players from professor Eric. He says players quickly fall back into the what he calls the IWR camp, immunities, weaknesses, resistances. Like that's kind of what players generally always go for. But the problem with that is that they're simple go tos and they often are not that relevant. Even on a successful save. It doesn't a lot of times the jam will just be like nothing there there's nothing there and Santa is getting kind of complicated, but most characters only have one to three different damage types They can even do so like knowing Weaknesses that you would never have access to it's kind of irrelevant

So usually it's really good to not waste that action, but instead just use trial and error to figure out kind of immunities, resistances, weaknesses, unless there's some really obvious big problem that it's creating. Another thing a player can do is wait around to see what's causing problems and then ask a targeted question. And that is what Matthew was talking about in this episode. That is kind of the camp that I'm leaning toward now as a player Is like wait, what was that? Exactly wait till we get into it and then ask a very specific question so that your one action you spent and if you get That success you get good information for it

Now you might have that's risky though because of this is point three The one exception is when you might be looking at a creature that has a very dangerous AOE Like if you if you think that that's a dragon's fire breath is a perfect example, you know, it might be better to roll a recall knowledge early on before it and ask if there is an AOE attack of some kind just to kind of get a head out on that. So that was a good point for players. And then lastly, rounding it out is we talked about, I talked about struggling with fumbling with recall knowledge as a GM and coming up with BS information because I was just like, I just stare at the natural one and I'm like, uh, uh, it can fly. You know what I mean?

And like it's something the players immediately know is wrong. So professor Eric provides a great cheat sheet here. I think this is great. It's this look at its immunities, weaknesses, and resistances. It's the first thing I do. He says, if he rolls a natural one and you just at, you throw in something that's opposite, so you don't necessarily say that it's, if it's, if it's resistant to fire, you don't say necessarily that it's weak to fire. You might, he's like, what I do is just do the opposite like it is weak to cold because it seems correct. It seems obvious something that seems like

it has resistance to fire would also seem like it has a weakness to cold and you're looking in the step block and it doesn't. So you just say it has a weakness to cold. You give the players wrong information and they're not going to benefit from that. You know at all. You could say it has a weakness to bludgeoning because it has a weakness to cold, you give the players wrong information and they're not going to benefit from that at all. You could say it has a weakness to bludgeoning because it has a resistance to slashing, even if it doesn't actually have a weakness to bludgeoning because that feels right to the players and they'll just jump on it and eat it up. So that's a good example.

And then there was some discussion, he says, on the Discord about giving incorrect knowledge that would help trigger a creature's more unique abilities. So setting the players up in a trap, basically, that draws out the monsters' really bad thing that they could do. He says, this is certainly more fun and more dramatic and more cinematic, but it could end up being too punishing of a result. You have to be careful with how you wield that kind of power. I like that one. Yeah, it's a good one. Then one last piece, and this is about, we talked about this was after the spikes incident. We talked

about using medicine for recall knowledge. Is medicine something you can use for recall knowledge? It's very obvious that you can. I don't know how I missed it. It's written right in the scale. It's right there. He just pointed it out for us here. Recall knowledge using medicine is for diseases, injuries, poisons, and other ailments. And then quote, you can use this to perform forensic examinations. If you spend 10 minutes or more as determined by the GM, checking for evidence such as wound patterns, this is most useful when determining how a body was injured or killed. So that is also a recall knowledge and it could also be a secret check. You know, it's recommended by the game that is a secret check. The GM does, if you say, how did this guy die? You know, you roll it behind the screen and then you can give, it also gives you a chance for

false information that could be really, uh, you know, move the story in interesting ways. So, uh, yeah, anyway, that thought that was a pretty good treatise. And then last thing, uh, he said, so actually there's no corrections here and we are stupid. It's more just laying out, um, recall knowledge. But then he said that he loved the decision that we came to on how to use the remaster. He's like, it is exactly what I would recommend. And I think it's what most people are doing right now, especially for people on Foundry. He's like, you should just default to whatever makes it easiest, in moment to moment for everybody at the table, GM included.

So even if you're on one, not one, but even if you're on pre-Remastered monster stat blocks, it's fine. Just do it. You're not going to run into that many major issues. So I'm glad he weighed in on that. Appreciate it. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, there's really no other option for us. Yeah, there really isn't. And I think that's what everybody's finding. There's really no other option right now. Like he said, especially for people on Foundry. All right. Let's do a little listener mail and talk about what the nation wants to discuss. It's time for Listener Mail. You gotta get your brain off on it. Time for Listener Mail. You gotta cue that f***ing hit. All right, coming up first is Nick C from Arizona.

What up Nick C? Thanks for hanging out, writing into the show. Just a reminder, if you want to get your question answered on Listener Mail, write in to contact at glasskinnonetwork.com and put Listener Mail on the subject line, or you can go to our website. There is a Listener Mail section there where you can submit through our contact form there, and it goes right directly into our Listener Mail box,

which makes it easy for me. So, Nick C from Arizona writes in with, any chances of going longer for shows on the network. I'm happy when an episode is almost two hours, but saddened by an episode barely pushing over 60 minutes between opening banter blah blah blah. We've heard this before many times, but he's like I just want to hear more of your beautiful voices longer PS. See you in Portland and LA. That's awesome Nick. We're excited, see you in Portland and LA.

That's awesome, Nick. We're excited to see you there. I wanted to bring this up. I think it's a good time every once in a while to check in and touch base with the nation on episode length. Where does this come from? What kind of internal discussions we've had? Because we've talked about this a lot over the years.

Yeah. I mean, it's complicated, dude. It's complicated. Like I know people want more. I think that's a good problem. Where it gets tricky is where people finish an episode and feel like they didn't get enough. It's one thing to want more. It's another thing to feel like, oh, that was a light up.

It's a real tough balance. My ideal length is 60 minutes. I'm sick of doing two-hour episodes. Originally, we were like, how are we going to do an hour episode? We play for four or five hours when we actually play. How do you do an hour? But I like to consume in one-hour chunks. I feel a sense of accomplishment when I finish something and I'm looking at the fucking thing

and it's like, God, there's another hour and 13 minutes left. I've been listening for an hour. That's tough. But I know that people consume these things in different ways. I think an hour is a sweet spot, but in order to pull that off, ooh, better have a good hour. And I don't care if it's like the banter to play ratio doesn't bother me. I think that that's the show. If it's 20 minutes of banter, if it's 15 minutes of banter and 40 minutes of show The onus is then on us to make sure that 40 or maybe sometimes even 30 minutes of show Crushes and that's where it's hard. It doesn't always crush. So then I'm like I've got this internal like

Troyrometer barometer that's like was that enough app was that enough app and that's why the Season 2 or campaign 2 has been like of all varying length is because I'm trying to like internally feel, was that enough? I think that- Yeah, but I would also say that there is not a single 60, there's not even a 70 minute episode of campaign two. Like every episode is a minimum of 90 minutes.

They all run between 90 minutes and 120 minutes. What I'm trying to do with campaign two is like we banter and I'm looking at the clock and we finished bantering. I'm like, okay, I'd like to give at least an hour of show now. Whereas we didn't do that before with Giant Slayer. It was an hour show and if the banter went long, tough shit. Now I'm looking at him like, oh, that was 10 minutes of banter. I want to make sure I go to at least an hour 10. But lately we're going to like an hour 20, hour 30. I think that there's certainly an argument to be made that the show might hit harder two hours.

Like especially with five players, we'd certainly get a lot more accomplished and it fits the mold of all of our other shows with the exception of Legacy and Blood of the Wild and the original Campaign 1. shows with the exception of Legacy and Blood of the Wild and the original campaign one. But I just – I don't know. I don't like longer shows. I think it's too long to be honest. It's not how I like to consume content either. I love 60 minutes.

I love a 60-minute show. I think that's the amount of time I have to devote to it because I want to do other things. I want to listen to other things. I want to consume other shows. And so I love to other things. I want to consume other shows. And so I love when things are a little tighter. Of course, Nick. Of course, we want it to be a great 60 minutes.

You know what I mean? Oh my god. So Blood of the Wild is a good example. Blood of the Wild is 60 to 68 minutes every single week. Jared is like clockwork with it. However, there is and this has been amazing to see. We've been doing this now for over a year. And as we pass the year mark, I noticed that we

we've sort of like, Jared has changed and evolved as we've assimilated him into the network. Because he used to be when I say three minutes, I mean, that is long for Bant. Like he opens the show and gets right into it. He would do a few seconds of Bant because he's coming from, you know, classic live performance where you do a little bit of ha ha ha at the top, one to three minutes, and then you get into the meat of the show. Like, and he always wanted to do that. And then over time, no decisions were made. We never talked about this, but over time he's like getting to the glass

cannon, like eight to 11 minute banter. It's just, it's happening, you know, chatting it up with Mary Lou and Paul and skin and that, you know, and as long as it's funny and working, he lets it keep going. And so I do agree with you that, that, that length of time is great for me. 60 to 75 minutes is my favorite. And I don't care what percentage of that is banter. I do like it to be a full hour of gameplay.

But if it's if it is a tight gameplay in a hot episode, I don't see why those minutes really matter. The show is both things. The show does not start when gameplay starts. The show is all of it together. And, you know, that if it has a great band, I see no reason why you can't have a shorter gameplay length. Yeah, I mean, you and I agree. I think there's probably an overwhelming majority that disagrees. But like, we've got to build the show that that we want to build, you know what I mean?

Like, that's what excites us. And it's a very delicate balance. And, you know what I mean like that's what excites us and It's a very delicate balance And you know who knows maybe a year from now our opinions will change But like I'm thinking about how I like to consume content and though I may be different than our audience and our customers I think that there's I really think that there's something there like there's there's a reason traditional TV is 30 I really think that there's something there. Like there's a reason traditional TV is 30 minutes and 60 minutes. It's a part of our social makeup. Unless you're British. Unless you're British.

Which every episode is two and a half hours. No, but it is like, I can say from a gameplay standpoint, when we get into the game and we're rocking and rolling, and I'm talking about playing Pathfinder and equally handling Delta Green in both cases. Once I cross the 90 minute mark, I get really drained on energy. You see how much energy I pour into every show that I've been. I really start to drag and I'm like, come on, let's get to a good ending here. I can just feel it. I feel around that 90 minute mark like that's the ideal place for me to end an episode. 60 minutes is what I like to listen to. I don't mind going 90

as a player, as a GM, but after that, I definitely start to feel my energy waning. I don't think enough people that want us to have four-hour episodes think about how much more energy we use when we play than when we play off air. You know, like if we're just playing off air, like it's nowhere near the same level of energy because you're putting on a show, there's the showmanship aspect to it. You're constantly thinking of like what's next

and how to make something good. It just drains you and so keeping it tight, I think ends up with a better product. Yeah, I think the hard thing is, is like, you know, you want it to be a killer app, but like we're also trying to just play the game. Yeah, I think the hard thing is like, you know, you want it to be a killer app, but like we're also trying to just play the game. We're playing the game with an exaggerated sense of, you know, to fit the optics of entertainment,

but ultimately we're just trying to play the game. And sometimes even in home games, that session was kind of lame. And so how do you, let's go long, you know, you're like a comedian, you know, you get the light. You got to tell a couple more jokes and wrap it up. You want to make sure you have something to go out on. You know what I mean? If you're a comic and I used to work at Caroline's, I'd see the light would be blinking.

It means get the fuck off the stage. But the bigger comics would be like, no, I'm not getting off stage until I get the laugh that I want. So, it's really, really tricky. It's like you're trying to make sure an episode hits. You don't want to put out a dud. But I also don't think, oh, I bantered too much. No, it's like, this is the show.

Hang out with us. And honestly, Nick C, thanks for the question. I appreciate the question. The reason I bring it up is not because I want to be like, we know better than you, or this is not the way you're supposed to consume content. It's really more about just to show that we've talked about this a lot.

Like when we started Delta Green, when we started Get in the Trunk, wasn't called Delta in the Trunk when we started it, but we started Get in the Trunk, there was a lot of back and forth about episode length, you know what I mean? And when we did Gatewalkers, there was a lot of talk about episode length, banter, commercial breaks. How's that going to change things? We

talk about this stuff a lot. So I just want you to know it's not like on a whim. These things are on our mind. And when it comes to Blood of the Wild and Legacy, particularly, those have a lot to do with how much time we have with those casts. We have limited amounts of time in order to put out content every week. I'd much rather have, much rather have 160 minute episodes than 70, 90 minute episodes. It's kind of how I think about that. I don't know if that math's right at all, but you know what I mean.

It's like I'd rather have more episodes and more weeks of enjoyment and just chop them up a little bit more than packing them all into less episodes. And Glass Can and Poggers is the only show, at least with campaign two especially, where there is no set length. If you look at the time codes of all the episodes, they're all over the place.

Because I'm just like, I feel like that's the end of the episode. And it's just an internal clock thing. Yeah. All right, one more. This one from Mary Kay in San Diego, California. Thanks for writing in, Mary. Joe loves your cosmetics.

Uh, I sure do. Uh, Mary Kay is a self-proclaimed baby GM, baby of a GM. Uh, myself currently finishing up taking a group through a level 15 to 18 standalone night of the great death adventure. First campaign I've ever GM. So this question is coming from a novice GM who wants to know on several fads quote, Troy has mentioned how the party of campaign two has missed seemingly important things, weapon runes or other treasure checks to notice or discover information opportunities to question or investigate certain NPCs. As a GM, how is he okay with slash how does he justify to himself letting these important things

pass the players by and just continuing on? To sum up, she finds that she's like she gets nervous or frustrated if she can't give the players information she thinks they need and then she feels like she has to spoon feed it to them somewhere later or more obviously or get them the items they need because she doesn't want them to fail miserably because they're not equipped correctly. I have had this same exact issue, Mary Kay. So anyway, this question is for you, Troy. I'm kicking it to you.

Yeah. I mean, I feel like if it's super, super important, move it. Move it somewhere else. Have it be revealed elsewhere. But you're really going to ask yourself, is it important? Because if it isn't, just let it go. There's so much information in these adventure paths and these stories. Even if you're doing homebrew, it's like the players, they only retain so much.

Like if it's super important, really ask yourself, that's the first question. Was this really important? If it is, then move it elsewhere if they miss it. With treasure, fuck them. The weaker they are, the better. Yeah, I would say that with the experienced GMs that I've worked with, Jared Logan, you and Skid, and in particular, Adam from Order of the Amber Die, who I've played a lot with and who I consider

to be a very experienced tactical GM. Yeah, because he thinks about the balance issues, right? And what items you have versus what's coming up. Thinks about this stuff all the time. He will never give you treasure that you pass by. It's like if you pass by treasure, that's it. It's gone. Now, I struggle with that as a GM just because I love seeing my players happy.

And I, and it's not that I don't, that I don't run a hard line as a GM at times. I definitely do. I'm not a people pleaser as a GM. However, I get a kick out of them being excited about something, just like I would with an awesome item. So I will tend to nudge them towards something or give them something more obvious

or give them something that they missed later. I'll put it somewhere else so that they can have it because I really want them to have it. I think it's the perfect item for them or a given character for whatever reason. And it has really bitten me in the ass. Like I have made, it is a mistake. Treasure is not all meant to be found. It's just, it just isn't if it was all found exactly to the T

Then your players will most likely be overpowered particularly if you fall into the trap of Tailoring an item to a character so you have a you have a short sword that's a plus one striking short sword that you're ready to give somebody at level four and Or it's in the adventure, and you change it to a plus one striking hammer because that's what somebody is proficient in, and that's what their class has or whatever. So you give them something that works for them instead of something that doesn't. It's a very nice gesture, but if you fall into the trap of

doing that a little too much, you will quickly find yourself outpaced and your players will be mashing encounters and you'll be frustrated trying to give them a challenge. That's what I ran into. And so now, like I really lighten up on Treasure. I think it's better for the players to be harried and to be challenged every time rather than to mash encounters left and right. Yeah, and the same thing goes for like unexplored areas.

You know, I think when I first started GMing I just I was like you've got to do everything I've prepped it. It's part of the story. You need to open all the doors and do all this stuff It wasn't till the middle buildings of Giant Slayer that I was like I was still pushing you towards it because I was just part of my nature It's like we got to do everything but like once we got to like the volcano I was like feel free to skip as much shit as you want. I just want to get you get done with this adventure. But never feel bad if they don't open a door, if they don't go in a room, no matter how

cool the encounter is. There's always something cooler coming up. There's always going to be more gear. If it's something that's really important to the story and you feel like they're going to miss it, number one, the developers are going to make it so it's impossible for the players to miss it. The developers are usually pretty good about like they've already decided if this is vital information and they will make it unavoidable by the party.

If you disagree, then just move it. But otherwise, just like these adventures are long enough. Just let them really feel like they have control over what they do and just as importantly, what they don't do. This brings up one last point and then we're going to get out of here, which is the concepts that you read in Playing Unsafe that I read in Playing Unsafe. There's a little bit of it in the Lazy GM's Guide or whatever, Lazy Dungeon Master. Let's say you're home brewing, right?

So a lot of people like to home brew and they build these encounters or these areas that they feel are obvious that the players would walk through to give vital information. And then the players don't do what you expect. Home brewing can be a tough example. I don't have a ton of experience with it myself, so I don't want to talk like I'm an expert or anything, but what I've read in these books is that's the trap you don't want to fall into is like preparing it at all to be something that's so important that the players have to walk into for

it to be a valuable thing. That is the essence of what these books consider bad GMing because you're setting yourself up for disappointment. You're setting yourself up for railroading your players and you're just setting yourself up to be frustrated that players aren't doing what you want them to do and that they can feel that energy. So doing less, you know, if you have an important item or not just

an item, but like an important concept or, or piece of the mystery or whatever that they have to find building it around a specific encounter and in a specific area at a specific time, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. You can have that thing, but it should be nebulous in your head. It should be able to be dropped into a multitude of different set pieces at different times so that you can pull it out when the player... In that way, the players really always feel like they're driving the story. You can also just.

Yeah. If there's something that is vital to the continuation of the story, be it a piece of treasure or an encounter or a room, don't leave that up to chance. You know what I mean? Like you don't leave that to like, oh, you didn't hit the DC or they didn't open that door or they didn't read that book. If it is vital, then that is part of their discovery. Nothing could change them discovering that. Yeah. There's so many interesting topics within this narrow area.

Delta Green does a good job of writing this in the rulebook about not having players' role if their skill is at a certain level. Don't fall into the trap of asking for roles from players for things that you, they have to succeed in order for the adventure to move forward. You know, like if you have it set up that way, if it's set up in that case, then it's just, they climb that wall. They say they want to climb that wall.

Don't just be like, all right, give me an athletics because like that's when they'll roll the natural one. That's when they'll throw the whole thing out of whack and you have to give them an auto success. Like it just, just don't have them roll. Just be like, you scramble up the wall. It's an easy one. You scramble up the wall and keep it moving.

You don't have to roll every single physical action that the skill says it does. You know, you only need to roll it when failing it matters. You know, you know, we, I wonder how much actual players players are gonna change the way that games are developed because like so much of so many games now are being done for an audience and look at how much we've just kind of trimmed down over the years. Like I've completely almost completely eschewed like detecting magic and rolling our can of checks to determine with the magical property something because it's just bad. It's just a praise. Yes. How much is that worth? Now I'm

just emailing you afterwards. Here's all the gold you found. Especially with strange bad. It's just a praise. Yeah. How much is that worth? Now I'm just emailing you afterwards. Here's all the gold you found. Especially with Strange Ounce. It's like, it's just bad radio. Just skip it. And so I think you're gonna see over the next decade or so as games are developed, like that stuff is gonna be just thrown out

because it's not fun. It's not really important. In order to streamline and just cut to like, what are the most fun parts of the adventure, but man, I mean, that could just open up a whole can of worms. But thank you, Mary Kay. It is fantastic to get questions from GMs that are trying to figure out what to do with these more complicated issues. Please write into us at contact at glass cannon

network.com, or go to our website and go to listener mail to submit your questions. We're happy to do what we can offer, what experience we've had over the years in the GM area to answer those kind of questions. Well, that's going to do it for us, buddy. We are done. Wrapped up. Another FOD in the books. I jump stalling for my ultra music technical difficulties. Yeah, no, that'll do it. My......ultra......music......technical......difficulties... ...uh, yep. No, that'll do it. Thank you guys so much for hanging out.

We appreciate ya. Uh, and... ...we got I'm Streaming at 2 o'clock today with Paula and McD and... ...uh, Sydney. Troy is streaming tomorrow at 2 o'clock Eastern. Twitch.tv slash TheGlassCanon. Of course you got time. Uh, um...

I was gonna go to time for chaos, but we've got... Pfft! Gatewalkers continues Thursday night on YouTube at eight o'clock. Time for Chaos premieres on YouTube Friday night at eight o'clock. Have a fantastic weekend, weekend everybody, and we'll see you back here next week.

We're gonna have more to talk about with Gatewalkers. Oh baby, take it easy everybody. We'll see you next time. Bye. ["The Gatewalkers Theme Song"] It's time to make your membership official. Become an official member of the Naish today at JoinTheNaish.com. That's JoinTheNaish.com where you'll get access to exclusive podcasts and live streams you

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