The Greatest Generation - A Very Tough Kouign Aman (DS9 S3E13)

Episode Date: November 19, 2018

When an age appropriate love interest for Jake Sisko appears looking for a date, it’s love at first sight. But when the A story starts publicly humiliating the B story at the dinner table, the crew of DS9 is left stuck with the bill. Does the Kai have upgrade status on Bajoran transport ships? Are interstellar geopolitics a part of a healthy medical recovery plan? Which cast member do you trust an entire page of dialogue to? It’s the episode that requires a brain transplant to enjoy.

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdisotoforlabor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the finest generation Deep Space 9. It's a Star Trek podcast by two guys who are a little bit embarrassed about having the Star Trek podcast.

I'm Adam Pranica. I'm Ben Harrison. Ben, I've got a little breaking news for you. Uh oh. We have a breaking news drop, don't we? Yeah, yeah, the same music cues that every podcast for time and memorial has used for breaking news bits. Yeah, I think it's like, I think it's buried in like the Mac stock. Yeah, there's like folder. There's like one royalty free music cue that somehow, somehow every single podcast was used.

I'd say it's high time our podcast uses it. I mean, it hasn't been official up till now, but now it is. Yeah, I think I mentioned this on the pod a while ago. I went to go get labs taken. Yeah. And the results are in. Whoa.

I think we could probably make this into a little game. Oh, can I play a game with me? Yeah. The game is called, how many food allergies do you believe I have? Wow. And this is a list of, let's say, 50. Like, 50 possible food allergies a person could have

How many do you believe that I have based on? Wow? That was this gonna be a recurring bit where you ask me a few each episode and I and I say yes to cheese No to fish or whatever. No, no, we're gonna we're gonna. I mean we're gonna have an answer Okay, so you're just asking me to guess a number based on the knowledge that there are 50 things you could potentially be allergic to. That's right. Okay, my guess is just gonna be right down the middle. 25 food allergies.

My wife also guessed, I think close to 30. My wife also guessed, I think close to 30. My doctor, upon reviewing the lab diagnostics, started like this. She said, I've been doing this practice for 20 years. Which is like sort of a really fun, dramatic flourish for any doctor, I think. Yeah. She said I've been doing this for 20 years and you are one of three people to ever have labs come back saying that you have zero food allergies. Whoa!

Totally clean on the food allergy front. Adam, have you considered the possibility that your digestive tract works totally normally and that you're just extremely sensitive to the fact that it works? Like you are the, you're the middle-aged woman going through airport security that is totally totally flipping out about being asked to do all of the normal things that airport security entails

i resent the comparison and i think you know from traveling with me how hurtful a comparison. I'm just saying like, Adam, everybody poops. There's a whole book about this. Look, the abnormality remains. This is not a normal state for people. My doctor agrees. I think whenever a major medical diagnosis happens between the hosts of a podcast, I think whenever a major medical diagnosis happens between the hosts of a podcast

I think that's something you need to share on the show. Absolutely. Don't want anyone to worry out there? I think in some cases people might be more worried about me. I mean the fact is out to this. Yeah, the fact that it's really not a diagnosis. They've eliminated an entire potential category of things it could be. What does it mean?

Well, I felt great about being in the clear up until now and now. Maybe not so much. But I thought it might be appropriate to share a medical diagnosis on an episode like the one we have today. It's a very medically focused episode, Adam. Yeah, sure is. I think maybe this episode means more to me now than it did when I watched it. It's a deep space 9 season 3 episode 13. Life support. Jake is walking around the promenade in an uncustomary, knuckless outfit. And I feel like this episode may be the dawn of an entire new series of looks for Jake

because he seems to have abandoned the knuck-enhancing garb that he customarily has worn up don't know. neck enhancing garb that he customarily has worn up till now. He's also not wearing a combat badge, but I'm sort of getting the idea that he wears one when he's doing starfleet. Yeah, when he punches in the time clock like issues him a combat badge. Yeah.

He punches his card and puts it up in the thing and it's like a snack machine It just like drops a con badge into a little tray at the bottom Knowing the good that the con badge does though. Could you ever for see a time where you personally would ever take it off? I would keep it in my pocket at least one of my New Year's resolutions this year was to go Ronin from my cell phone more often, especially when I'm going out for the evening, because I have a smartwatch that can serve

a lot of the emergency contact roles of the smartphone, leave the phone behind and not have it there as a temptation and just try to not be so tethered to it all the time. But maybe that's what Jake's doing. He's got a fitness tracker somewhere on his person. Oh, give me a lot to think about. Yeah. You know what else I gave me a lot to think about is Lee Ann.

Yeah. He's played by a Lark Voorhees from Saved by the Bell fame. Oh really? I didn't know she was of other fame. Yeah, she played Lisa Turtle on Saved by the bell fame. Oh really? I didn't know she was of other fame. Yeah, she played Lisa Turtle on Save by the Bell. Oh kidding. Well, she appears to be an age appropriate love interest for young Jake Sisko.

I think that's why they're so thrilled to be in each other's company, because that doesn't happen too often. And she is really macking on him too. Like, age appropriate and willing and eager. That's something that I put in my dating profile at the very end. 420 friendly, shaved, willing and eager. Yeah, nothing a woman you don't know wants to hear less than the phrase willing and eager.

They're sort of a fun, like they have a meat again cute, don't they? Like they used to know each other, but she had a boyfriend at the time, but now that's over. And so they made plans for later to go have dinner at the Klingon restaurant that I thought was closed at this point, but I guess it's still open only we'll never get to see it again. Right. But what happens here at the end of their meat point, but I guess it's still open only we'll never get to see it again. Right. But what happens here at the end of their meet is sort of a, it's a scene you usually get in a hospital show.

Like the security people go running by, they start yelling about an emergency. Move aside, look out. And then we follow them with the camera. I know, like it really exposes something that I wish happened a lot more often on Deep Space 9 is showing like what life would really be like

and the idea that you can just be walking around the prom and I'm looking for babes and a space emergency could break out all around you is really exciting and interesting. I love this. Yeah, I do too. It's a technique that we don't get, and I feel like we should more often

the technique of handoff. Yeah. Because the promenade especially is a place where so many different things happen. It feels like you could really float the camera around between multiple stories in quick succession, and they're rarely interested in doing that. I watched an episode of Vanderpump Rules the other night that did this technique and it was like, it was totally gripping because it's more gripping than usual. Well, there's like every time, every time

there's a party on any of those shows, like shit totally melts down at some point in the party, always, always. If you get point in the party, always, always. If you get invited to a party, one of the girls is going to be crying. She like found out that her boyfriend cheated on her or something like that. It's going to be a total shit show and people are going to be taking sides and like leaving in a huff or whatever. And in this particular party, I think two different things were happening like that.

And somehow they, like the people pulling the strings on this fake ass reality show got it so that both things were going off at the same time, and they had miked both things. But the camera walked from one conflict through the party to another, and it just like, it puts you there, you know? Like, it suddenly doesn't feel like a reality show where everything is conveniently staged in a booth toward one end of the club. Like, it doesn't feel like it's lit. It feels like it's a real thing that's really happening.

There's a producer in a trailer outside of that party going, this is when I've become an artist, at a moment like this. I was floored. Well, the emergency team is running This is when I've become an artist, a moment like this. I was floored. Well, the emergency team is running towards the space dock because a Bajorin transport is pulling into station and something blew up inside. They can't beam them on board because there's a bunch of radiation from the blow-up that's

happened. So they roll the roller door aside, the smoke clears, high wind rolls through the smoke. And it's like, hey, I'm fine. Go help the others. She's not the first person to roll through, which is I think surprising. Like they didn't say like,

Kai win out first. It was just random. Kai win seems like the George Costanza escaping the apartment fire of the group. Like, it seems like she would be pushinganza escaping the apartment fire of the group She would be pushing people out of the way to get out of that trend knocking over infants to get to the door Yeah, as the leader if I die Then all hope is lost, but like Scotty's nephew in Rath of Khan Vedic baryle gets carried out of the ship and he's covered in hamburger meat

He stayed at his station while the others ran. It's the order given Odo. Boy, Odo radios this news up to Kira and I was blindsided by this moment, Adam, because I just really think you cannot introduce a great new haircut on Kira in a moment like this. Is that where you're gonna call it? Yes.

You don't like the haircut? I mean, I hate that I already burned through a couple of sign-feld references, but Kira's hair looks like Jerry's hair from the episode where they don't get enough water pressure in the shower. Seems a little flat to me. These showers are horrible! I really like this new look. Ah, I think it's lacking volume. You're so obsessed with volume.

You'll come to think of it. Your wife has a ton of volume. She has naturally voluminous hair. Don't tell me about my wife's volume. I'm just saying. I've decoded something about your type. It's not just bejurean women who are, you know, strong, willed and temperamental.

Yeah, that's my main type. They also have to have a ton of volume. That helps. We get one of the rare Kyra eyes to opening theme too. Yeah, and when we come back, it's the Kai and the white under thing that she wears under her ceremonial garb. The thing she has to wear to fuck someone?

Hahaha. I don't know what it is. I just know that I recognize it from the collar because you see the collar when she's in that gold robe that you wear most of the time. Yeah, and she's pretty paranoid. She's thinking it's sabotage. Yeah, they're like, well, why? Because, you know, O'Brien and Kirill are there and she's like, I want to tell that to my main man,

the emissary in private. It's pretty cool how much street cred Cisco continues to get based on the pilot episode, right? Right, I mean, it kind of means he's got, he's kind of like her boss in a weird way. Yeah. He never uses that position, you know, because he's got too much ethics.

But I feel like he could kind of like be like, hey, listen, the Prophet told me, they think you're a punk. Yeah, there's something that happens later. I'm gonna want to return to that point as well. Like the degree to which Cisco does or does not use the great power that he has, I think is kind of a mystery to me.

Yeah. Do they ever get to the bottom of whether it is sabotage? I don't believe they do. I thought that was an interesting point that they left that string dangling. We cut over to Bichier doing brain surgery on Vedic Baryle, and this scene is kind of a mess. Like, they're using what look like Clip Show Devices,

which immediately scared me to death watching this scene. Because like, if there's one thing I don't want to see is a bunch of clips of Vedic Baryle's appearances on DS9. Yeah, I was really glad to see these space scrubs again, though. Yeah, it was a fun. Very fun. I like to see the Bajoran lady wearing them. Don't you tell me what I should or should not be doing? You know, it's the cascade failure where every time they put their finger in one hole in the levy and

Another one seems to burst and more water gets in. Yeah, pretty devastating and it's it's tough to see a character that we like You know going through this. It's... Well, hold it right there, man. You don't like him? Are we to like him? I think we're meant to like him, but I'm not sure if I do. I like him. I like that Kira likes it.

I think you bring too much of yourself to this assessment. No, I want Kira to be happy. I just think she can do better than him. She should get a guy who can really satisfy her in the way that only somebody who can change the shape of their dong could satisfy her. The next scene is Cisco talking to Kai Wandy brings her over a couple To my dead state. Oh, I don't use the bucket anymore. The next scene is Cisco talking to Kai Whanny brings her over a cup of coffee from the replicator. He sets it in front of her in a way that sort of looks like she's having coffee with her

breakfast baseball. It looks like a very tough queen of mine. The pastry's on in Cisco's office, leave a lot to be desired. It's like anything you order out of the pastry case at Starbucks. very tough Queen of Mon. The pastries in Tiscus obviously will ought to be desired. It's like anything you order out of the pastry case at Starbucks always pretty disappointing. Well she's pretty worried about the potential death of Bariol. He has been a loyal and trustworthy aid since the election. She's saying like he has kind of been the power behind the throne in a lot of ways.

And he's put this whole thing together. Like if it works, it's going to be great for a lot of people. And I just don't think that I can do it myself. I think that he's the man for the job. And this has all been thrown into question, whether it'll happen if he buys the proverbial farm. I think Louise Fletcher does something great here in that like in this scene, it actually makes you feel like,

oh, maybe she's that so bad. Like in her feelings about Vedic Parallel, you're like, huh, well, okay. Her recognition of a goodness being done to her is almost a our recognition of her being a better person than we thought she was until now. I think that's crucial because of what comes a little later in the episode. She plays innocent, super well. And from an acting standpoint, it's pretty advanced.

Like, her eyes are a little puffy, like she's been crying, but she doesn't cry at all in the scene. And she sells to Cisco that she is entirely interested in this from a greater good standpoint and not a personal reputation enhancement standpoint. Louise Fletcher was super sick with the flu during this episode. So that look on her face is practical. Man, I can really relate. I've, uh, having recently done a couple of live shows with you

where I was like extremely ill with a cold. Not extremely ill, but like ill enough that I was like, I really wish I didn't have to go on stage right now. Little pancake makeup, little emergency. We wheeled you out there like Hannah Belector. Yeah, there's a little adrenaline to going out there and doing it, and it makes you feel better. Yeah. Kai Wynn is in talking about this hatchet burying, describing a situation wherein there have been secret meetings between the Bajorans and the Cardassians. And Vettic Baryle has been a big part of those talks, like secret meetings that include

concessions like reparations and givebacks. There's even the possibility that the Cardassians will issue a formal apology for the pain and suffering inflicted on the pejoran people during the occupation. Not just secret meetings that don't really amount to much, but like the conclusion of which could have meaningful consequences for both pejorans and cardacians, kind of crazy. The the spectra of that conflict could be put in the past, given the idea that this actually works. And it's important to know the stakes here because this is the point where Bashir says

Vedic Barrail's dead. Yeah, he does that doctor pulling the rubber gloves off as he comes out of the surgery and breaks the bed, news to Kira. Boy, her fucking performance in this scene is devastating. Yeah. She really like stiff upper ellipse him. Thank you, Dr. Undoody and Ops.

Excuse me. And he's like, no, like you really should go, like take the day off, be with your feelings and she like shuts him down. She's like, I appreciate your concern, but I'll grieve in my own way in my own time. She's so great in this scene and it just makes you want more. To the degree that the A story impacts her character, we get very little of her in it. Yeah, but this moment she really, she really steals the show. I mean, I got misty eyed watching it. She was totally arresting and great.

Yeah, but you can't just let Burial's body go cold without a Y incision. So, yeah. But she needs to go in and do an alien autopsy. Is this really an autopsy of an alien being, or could it be something else? From the beginning, the scene has a lot of mad scientist elements to it.

Like the, they don't do any like special visual effect to have the stasis field, is just a lighting effect, and they cast this like glowy green light on the sheet that burials body is presumably under. And then they bring out this crazy rig that they're gonna put over his head for the autopsy and stuff. And then at some point, they're like,

hey, the neurons are firing and they're like, let's get in there. And it cuts to this inside the cut perspective of the sheer like fiddling inside Beryl's head. It is B horror film camera direction going on in a really fun way. Especially because of what Beryl ends up turning into. Like it is a very frank and stiny and episode, isn't it?

It's never the focus of the episode, but they kind of put it in your head by using the visual language the way they do. Bishir sees electrical activity in Vedic Berylal's brain which is something that I think neither of us have seen in any of his episodes up until now and Then using a dick And then using a bunch of medical terms He develops a plan to revive him and it fucking works and And Kai-win sees it as a miracle, but prophets must walk with you, Doctor.

Because with Kai-win, she frames everything in terms of how it impacts her. She considers how badly she needs this guy. Seize that he's been reanimated from the dead and dubs it like a miracle that the prophets have provided, that I think she sees as being a gift to her almost exclusively. Yeah, he's got kind of like a techno Yamakon that is kind of keeping his brain going.

And the discussion is like, hey, let's get now that he's back. Let's get this legate out here. Let's hammer this deal home. And we're sure it's like, I don't really think he's like, I mean, this is going to be a long slow recovery. Like we're going to have to to learn like teach him how to tie his shoes and stuff like he's had a fairly major brain trauma here I don't think interstellar geopolitics are really the first step on that path so maybe like pump the bricks Kiwin if you haven't seen deep space nine in a while and are thinking that Dr. Bashir is like

lacherous, grab-ass Dr. Bashir, his pivot into a serious doctor is fully realized by now. Like, he is not just competent medically, but he is really great at playing against Kai Wynne here, like, in standing up for his patient, in being serious and strong and not backing down and like realizing the power he is as a medical professional. He is chief medical officer in her. Yeah. It's a tricky situation. Like Kira is there arguing for get my boyfriend back to being my boyfriend. Kaiwen is there arguing for even if this burns him out too fast.

Like we need to use the fact that we've gotten him back for a second to finish this deal. The shears are arguing for, like what's good for the patient is the only thing I care about because that's my job and Cisco kind of has to make a call. Pretty serious episode here up until now, Ben. Would you like me to squirt a bunch of cheese whiz onto it? Hell yeah! What are you doing now? I'm not be guard, I'm not be guard, I'm not be guard. Exactly. Lest you forget, there is a date planned for tonight and that date has been manipulated

by Jake's friend, Nag, who argues that Jake's single date with Leanne should in fact be a double date that features Nag and a lady to be named later. She has a friend, right? I love this conceit. We see it all throughout the history of movie and movies and television where another girl would be willing to date a guy simply because he is there and friends with a guy that her friend is dating. Yeah.

That doesn't happen. This never happens. Yeah. Like, the number of couples that, like, I get along with the guy and my wife gets along with the girl and, like, we all get along with all, you know, with each other. Well, it's very few and far between, you know? That is a totally difficult thing to make happen when you're trying to make it happen using all available research and resources and like reputations.

Right, and like the two couples already like each other. It's not a first date. Yeah. I guess when Deep Space 9 has like 40 people on board, you take what you can get. Well, it turns out that well, the premise of this date is pretty dumb. The episode doesn't wind up being as dumb about what would actually happen, but I guess that happens a little later. What starts here is a bunch of cross-cutting between the very serious, Vedic barile scenes

and the slide whistle full of cheese whizz that is Noggin Jake. Hello, that sound like Like this is especially Acute in the scene where we cross cut from Nog rubbing his own lobes to barial's face like like transposed Yeah, it totally gave me the emotional bends and like I feel like the clown portion drags a serious thing down more than a serious thing can be destructive to something comedic.

Does that make sense? No, I agree. I think it's like, you think of this in a script as like the salt that brings out the sweet or vice versa. But because the stakes are so high because death is on the line in one of them, the idea that hapless teens trying to do grown-up stuff in the other storyline is, you know, a little bit of an oil and water thing. Yeah. Bashir has some bad news for

has some bad news for Beryl, and that is reviving him as meant a lack of blood flow to some of his organs. And this is a problem that has not been solved in the far future. He wants to put him back into stasis until they can get their arms around the situation. And Beryl's like, no dice. I'm sorry, Doctor, that's not acceptable. He's duty first. He wants to remain involved in these negotiations, and he's willing to sacrifice his health to do it.

But she gives him another option here, which is this drug that he can take that has a very, very high percentage likelihood of severely compromising the health of his internal organs. And I kind of feel like that might not be the best doctrine. Like if, you know, if it's a one in four chance that this is like a lifeender, like, I don't think you should do it, but I'm willing to do it if it's what you asked me for. I don't know. I mean, at the same time, if I were a patient, I would want to know every available option to me, no matter how risky.

I mean, to offer a counterpoint here, like, it's easy to judge Bashir and Vettek Baryle with our one prescription sample size, but I think generally what Bashir has done here is right. Yeah, I don't know. I wonder if anybody that knows anything about medical ethics has an opinion on this moment. I think what Bashir does is not sugarco how fucking risky it is. It's also like you gotta know your patient too, right? And Baryle's done nothing but say that he's in it for the team.

The stakes in this episode are that Beryl is willing to give his life for this to be his legacy. Kai-win is very bought into the idea that Beryl would give his life so that it could be her legacy. Kai-win wants this to happen because she has a meeting with Legate Terrell, and it doesn't go great. Like, she is overmatched by this guy, and it's revealed to us how much she really needs Baryle on her side. She's kind of a pushover in this, and you know, the second Terrell leaves the room, the supposedly impartial Cisco turns into the shoulder that she cries on and I can't do this without Barrel. If he dies, then peace with Cardassia dies with him.

She's that kind of political leader that is like working three hours a day, not really actually that interested, but also potentially like incredibly destructive to institutional health in spite of all that, you know. This is one of those scenes in Deep Space 9 that really low key distinguishes itself from Star Trek the next generation because we are used to a Captain Picard here negotiating super tactfully and like being the smartest guy in the room and not being manipulated by a Cardassian. And this is a scene where the Cardassians win at the negotiating table and everyone is

afraid of them and not as good at negotiating as they are. And this scene goes by super fast, but it is one of those scenes that really makes Deep Space 9 different as a Star Trek show. Right, because it's also not really Cisco's place to say anything while all three of them are in the room. Yeah. Yeah, he's just providing the room. You know, in measure of a man,

like everybody gets stuck on a side whether they want to or not. Yeah. Well, smash cut to the cheese whiz. The date has presumably been going for a while based on how much food is off of the plates of Jake and Nog. But the girls and Jake kind of have one concept of what a date might look like. And Nog has a very different thing in his head when it comes to what a date might be. We're supposed to grasp that they are very close friends.

And yet, this scene makes it clear that they've never been on a double date before. Right. Ever, ever, ever. And really have probably never talked about girls. Let's not make foolish conversation. In any substantial way? Well, they've definitely never watched a movie

where a date is depicted and then been like, wow, nog. I can't believe that dating is like that on your planet. Is that really how it goes? Like, from a writing standpoint, I kind of loved it because we are getting that automatically through a Jake, but when everybody clears out and it's just nogginggin Jake at the end, it's clear that Nog was having the exact same feeling on his side. I think you've done enough damage for one night. Yeah, it would have been a lot easier to just make Nog the boob that everyone hates,

but it's symmetrical embarrassment here, which I think makes this scene less cartonish than maybe it would seem. Yeah, and it's well written like when Nog starts laughing and they all get into it. Like, oh, Nog was doing bits. He's like, better than him. This is, he's been doing a bit this entire time and then it's revealed that in fact, he's laughing at the girl because he thinks she's so dumb. That is a great moment. There's a moment where he could redeem himself by realizing that he's been a total boob and he could save it by just copying to it being a bit, but he remains totally sincere.

And the fact that he says she's dumb and then he says that's perfect. Every time he doesn't move, it is like further in the direction of Ferengi in such a fun way. Yeah, I guess we'll never see Leanne again. Yeah. RSVP Leanne. And then like, so the date breaks up and is just a total catastrophe, but not an utter catastrophe from the standpoint of paying because they dine and dash. Like everybody storms out and they leave like half eaten food.

Oh shit. They do not settle the tap. Oh no. Yeah. I mean, I guess since Nog like has a dad that works there, maybe it's just assumed or maybe they prepaid. You think he's on credit? Yeah.

But I would love to see one of the frangy bartenders come around with the check and be like, where'd they go? So Bashir and Kai Wynne are still at odds about Beryl's level of care. And it's because Beryl's really struggling. He looks pretty low-t, to be honest. Kind of with Darjik. And mentally he's a little foggy too. And Ki-Win is just like the person at the bedside

who like needs more and more from the person who's sick. Yeah. And Parallel just isn't able to give it. His attention is wandering. He's in pain. The the Vasican is damaging his organs. And Parallel is still stubborn about it. He's like, keep giving me the vasican.

Whatever it takes to get me through these negotiations is the level of care that I want. Just do it. His willingly and with, you know, and of sound mind and not-so-sound body, like making the decision to give it up for this negotiation. Like this will be the thing that kills him, but he's willing to do it. This is a conversation that begins at Beryl's bedside and then ends up in a private conference between Bashir and Kiwin, where Bashir really makes the case that, you know, he's deferring to you, Kai. He's wanting to put

it all out on the line for you, and if you just told him to take a break, he would listen. Like you're the only one that can talk him out of this. Yeah. I could really use your help here. His perceived necessity is what's driving his decision if you, and if you told him that he wasn't necessary, then I think I have a chance to save his life. Right. He would, he would stop pushing the issue and relax a little bit. And Kai wins like fuck that, like I need him, and that's the point when Bishir really

turns, and it's like you're just afraid to stand alone because of the negotiations fail. You have a scapegoat to blame it on, and Kai does not dispute this at all. Beryl's already made his decision, Doctor. I want interfere. And then Bishir doesn't hold back even more, like really cuts into her quite a bit before storming out. You're a coward. You're afraid to stand alone. He fucking reads her.

He does a great Bishir scene. He sees exactly what she's all about. And I don't know if they've had many run-ins the two of them before But she is customarily a villain when she shows up and for the whole episode up till now she has seemed so selfless and doing this for the right reasons and in this moment He really undresses that and exposes it for the Self-serving that it actually is.

It's super cathartic because you've wanted someone to tell off Ki-Win since we've known her, but because it's a doctor doing it, it seems a little diminished, right? Because like he has medical permission to do this in a way that other people don't have professional or social permission to do the same. Right. Like if Cisco did it, it's coming from the perspective of not just being the Federation's man on Bage or but also being the emissary. Like it really has teeth.

And like when she says, I'll remember what you've said here today and he says, I will too. It's like he's not really in a position to become a huge problem for her politically or whatever. This is the moment in the episode where I thought a conversation between Beshear and Cisco might be in the cards. Well, it might be, but in fact, it will be a conversation between Jake and Cisco. Right. They are going to have dinner. I guess this is the next night maybe, and it is all about how badly the date went. Benzisco is a pretty good counselor for young Jake. Jake, whose side I was on, up until Benzisco started giving his perspective. Yeah, I mean, his perspective is that there's a cultural difference here that you failed to anticipate, which is an interesting point.

I mean, it's sort of surprising that Jake wouldn't have had a sense of this going in, but I also thought it was a little weird that Cisco is kind of defending Nug's behavior. Sounds like he's acting like a foreringing to me. Well, it is his culture, his culture is bad. So. That is what I was thinking. And like, watch us wander into this mind field.

Conversationally. But like at what point do you come to a stop and cultural acceptance and start recognizing things as just kind of being a fucked up way to treat people? Right. Like that's the line that they're actually discussing over dinner here. Yeah. And I don't think Jake is very good at articulating that point, his own side, because he allows himself to be convinced by his dad that Ferenzy gonna be Ferenzy. And this is Star Trek, man. Like, you would expect Star Trek to be like, you know, treat everyone fair and well.

That's the Starfleet way, and instead it's like... We left that foolishness behind us centuries ago. Part of it is I wonder if he's just fucking with Jake. Like, for sport. Yeah, and then... Like, is this a way for him to break them up as as as friends? Kind of dark if you think about it. Yeah, they don't know. Well, a final decision must be made about what to do W slash R slash T.

Baryle and you know, like he is he is basically being kept alive through some of the most advanced stuff that Bashir can do. Like he is replacing organs, he is replacing brain hemisphere. Did this seem possible before this episode? Like the idea of a positronic brain implant? Well, it's only half a brain. Pretty blown away by the idea. Yeah, it's a little bit past what you think is possible given, like, the idea that data is non-reproducible as a phenomenon. Yeah.

Maybe Bashir is also a cybernetic genius, and they just haven't exposed that part of his character yet. Ki-Win is like, replace all the brain parts. Do it. Like, this is great. Like she is totally riding for the Frankensteinian doctoring a Vedic barile. But she's saying needs are the many outweigh the needs of the few.

The other one. But she's like, what would barile want? Yeah, WWE BD. I was shocked at the position that Kira took here in taking barileol's side. Right. I guess it's just that she knows that it's the most important thing to him. And she's also weirdly had a chance to grieve his death. She got told he was dead already.

I think it's crucial that you don't see that grief, and that's why this scene doesn't work, or comes as a surprise to me. Like if you were able to realize her grief, I think her decision to keep him alive in the aftermath of that grief would make more sense to me, but because I never saw it, I never felt like she truly did. And so this position of hers was surprising. And it's not just speculation about what's going to happen to Barrel. I think Bashir is fairly specific about his personality being changed as a result, and it now being the same person on the other side of the surgery. Yeah. And yet they still ride

for surgery, Bashir is overruled. So we instead of cutting to the surgery cut to Jake hatching a scheme with Odo, whereby Nog is brought into the brig, and Jake is already sitting in there rotting in a cell. How will you find Nog on the promenade you ask? He's the only one wearing a Carmen Miranda blouse. The accusation is that they both teamed up and stole something from the Tholion ambassadors quarters and they're stuck in jail. It's like a, it's like a lock-in, you know? The hatch has been buried in the brig. Jake and Nag appear to be on their way to being back to normal.

Double dating is definitely out. But also like the gesture is really meaningful to him. Like the idea of the Jake like went to these great lengths to apologize and to like try and build their friendship back. Good God, like the the G forces between these cross cuts is extreme because we like we stay in the Brigha while and then we cut back to Bishir and the implants functioning of Ariles awake, but he's like totally robotic and fucked up and then we go back to the Brigha while and then we cut back to Bishir and the implants functioning of Ariles awake but he's like totally robotic and fucked up and then we go back to the Brigh for some reason to talk it out again and then we cut back out like to Legatarel

like we cut, we cut, we cut, we cut, we cut, we cut, we cut, we cut from the Brigh to like the celebration and everybody's drinking the blue drink of bilateral peace accords. Right. Yeah, Bishir's not thirsty though. No. He's moping. He doesn't even want to drown his sorrows. He said because of what he had to do to keep Baryle alive

and taxis like, look, I've had weird things put inside my body before. It's not so bad. Yeah. And by that I'm talking about klingons. Oh. Oh. Hickory dickory decks!

Whoa! Another scene where we're like, hey, why don't we bring some cheese whizz to this serious ass show? Because Quark has invented a dessert and named it after Kiwin, but it looks like a big turd. It's a chocolate souffle. I think you got to make the Kiwin souffle look like Kiwin, or like at least have the Pope hat of Kiwin.

That would be nice. Yeah, like a little imagination, please. Like a lemon-curred coated meringue with a little white stripe down the middle. Right? What is he thinking? Yeah. coated meringue with a little white stripe down the middle. Right? What is he thinking? Yeah. I think that's why Kai-Win is so disappointed when she sees it.

Like, you can see it all over her face. It's both the actor having the flu, but also not impressive. So Quirk is setting this up on the buffet when the call comes in. Medical emergency. Dr. Bashir to the infirmary. I want you to say that Baryle is crashing in the six-bay. So Bashir, Kiwain, and Kira head down there, and Kira is like, we replaced half of his brain. Why don't we replace the other half?

And this is when Bashir says something that I think is potentially very offensive, which is that it would take away his last shred of humanity? What? Hmm. The hell? Federation is no more than a homo sapiens only club. Yeah, I mean, Kira had every right to what the fuck eyes him. And, uh, and chooses not to.

I think, I think because she is realizing the grief of this moment. Yeah. The grief chickens have finally come home to roost. Yeah. And it is a one last opportunity for Nana visitor to really put on a tour to force acting performance. This last shot is just a very, very slow dolly back while she recalls the first time she saw Beryl and like relates it to how she felt

in love with him. This is a gift that you give to a stage actor, right? Yeah. We're not gonna cut, we're just gonna, like, it's a page of dialogue, you know? Yeah, and she's good enough to carry it. She's better than good enough, like, it's a page of dialogue, you know? Yeah. And she's good enough to carry it. She's better than good enough, like she is uniquely suited for a moment like this. Ninovisatorius. There's so many other actors on this show that this scene you would have to do in an ECU.

And she is tiny in the frame by the end of this shot. And she is still giving you the full emotional, you know, every emotion is hitting as hard as it possibly can. I don't think that's an accident. I mean, I think the slow pull away evokes the end of someone's life. I think I think a person's shrinking size and frame portrays their powerlessness at something happening to them or around them. Like, I think there's a there's a visual language here in this scene that all gets tied together.

The director of this episode, it's named Raza Buddy, he died in 2011. This episode like from like camera and performance standpoint, I thought was incredibly well-directed. And the script is a little dorky the way it pushes these two weirdly disparate storylines together, but I really appreciated especially this last moment. Kira's scene at the end is as good as you say and she gives this scene so much but does Barrel deserve this moment as a character? I might argue that he doesn't and I would also argue that Star Trek believes that he doesn't because they do not give him the single brass instrument of the death of an important character. So, Beijor may never forget him, but we certainly will, I think, and so will Star Trek. Damn!

You really want to do this. Yeah, now, okay, okay, let's do it! Did you like the episode, though, outside of that moment? There's a lot to like. I mean, I kind of like both stories, you know? Like, I don't think they're a great match for each other, but I kind of like seeing stories, you know? I don't think there are great match for each other, but I kind of like seeing both of them. And on balance, I really like the episode. I just kind of wish they had found two episodes to put these two stories in and A and B stories

to match that weren't such weird, such a weird point of comparison. Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, I think if you were to deconstruct the A and B story and then find different A's and B's for them to be compatible with, that would be more satisfying. I think we've made it pretty clear that Star Trek has a hard time with condescension, W-slash-R-sl W slash R slash T, morality tales, but like in the portrayal of an end of life decision, which is what this is, I thought it did a pretty good job in giving voice to all possible outcomes and opinions to that moment.

Yeah. I just wish the Noggin Jake thing were in a different episode. Oh! And it's because of the transitions, I think, that makes it hard. Tonally, Noggin Jake are so different. And I wonder if, like, commercials benefit those transitions in a way that we're unable to perceive

when we're watching it on Netflix because when we just crosscut from Noggin Jake to Bariah, like, I'm wondering if that's really happening in the show. Yeah. Yeah, so that's where I met. Well, you'm wondering if that's really happening in the show. Yeah. Yeah, so that's where I met. Well, you want to see if we have any priority on messages that will air concurrently with this episode, Adam? Yeah.

What do we got? Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. I need a supplement on that. supplement on that? supplement supplement Yeah, it's extra The interest alone could be enough to buy this ship

Ben our first priority one message is from Joe It is for Daniel Leah and Mike the message goes like this. Oh, I've got a script note here. Oh, script the script note says ack's bridge Please Daniel, we can't keep doing this. Hahahaha. One hundred American dollars is an economically irresponsible amount to send messages to a person. Hahahaha. Lea, don't let Daniel do any smelting in the house. Make.

Life is like a hurricane here in deckberg Rayshkars, Lasers, Eroplanes It's a deckpler. It's a duck blur. Yeah, we all know that. Yeah, have you watched any of the new duck tails? Is there new duck tails? Yeah, Bobby Moynihan's a part of that show, but I I mean, I don't have cables I don't know how I would ever see it. Oh, man. Do you love me some Bobby Moynihan? I know. I guess we took a little bit of the power out of that message by both sharing that we don't watch Tuckdale's. But a beloved memory of a childhood show. Yeah. I certainly respect putting those words in Kevin's mouth just for the lulls.

Yeah. just for the lulls. Yeah, Adam, our next message is for John Turner, and it is from Amy, Ben, Daniel, Glade, Kevin, and Mimi. Goes like this. Congratulations on your well-earned PhD. Whoa! We all miss you in Boston, but maybe once in a while, you can stick a cake in the mail for us.

We promise to have worthy candles by the time it gets here. Good luck with whatever comes next. Wow! Congrats, John Turner! I hope whatever comes next is sleep. Can you believe- He is no joke. Can you believe this person left Boston for PhD? There's like a dozen colleges in Boston.

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense at all. Yeah. Also sending cakes to the mail, I don't recommend. My mom, I recently celebrated a birthday and my mom tried to send me a pie in the mail and they did not deliver it to my house and when I went to the post office the next day to ask about it, they said, oh yeah, it was covered in flies and totally wet. So we didn't drop it off on your doorstep because we didn't want it to rot there. I was like, oh, thank you. Oh my god. Yeah, it's pretty nasty. I had to carry it back like three blocks. I was probably sitting in this seat where I am recording a podcast episode with you when the cake, when the pie was mistolivered.

Wow. Yeah. It probably came within three feet of me because my office is right next to the steps up to the front door of my apartment. You know what else comes within three feet of you in that office when you're alone? If you have a priority when message,

you'd like us to read on the show you can go to maximum fund.org slash jumbo tron or personal messages are $100 and commercial messages are $200. They are among the greatest ways to support the ongoing production of this program. Oh did I say office I meant masturbatorium? Hey, office I meant masturbatorium. You want to see me? Well Adam, I just have a question for you. What's that been? Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda?

Drunk Shimoda! Yeah, I did and I think this is going to be one of those classic, greatest gen callbacks because very early on in our run of shows, I think one of my favorite Shimotas ever was, you know, sometimes we like to select a Shimota just for the sake of recognizing someone on screen doing a thing. Like, then that's it. Like, they don't have to be doing something crazy.

Like, who's that person? What do you think their deal is? One of my favorite Shimotas ever of course was 40-year-old Anton She was she was an Anton in engineering just like Make making a new go of it like doing a fresh start like I love that Anton one of my Firing you don't have to be bogged down and whatever you did when you started your career go do something else have fun You only live once. Do what you have to do to make yourself happy.

Ensign Yolo is out here inspiring the rest of us. In this episode, during the party scene at the end, it is clear that there is a 60-year-old foreign-gy waiter serving food and beverages at this party. This is a character that I don't believe we've seen before, who gets no lines at all, and yet is as old as the Negus. Yeah, he's clearly fairly advanced

in your foranginar years. Yeah, and I wanted to know more about him, just seeing him skulk around carrying the souffle. I'm wondering if he's the creator of the Kiwin souffle. Oh, he's very javelly. I would believe that he has a lot of carbs in his life, given how javelly he is. Yeah, so that's my Shimoda.

What about you, Ben? Boy, I could not resist giving it to Nog. Just for the way he announces that money is good. But women are better. That's a hard agree for me, Nug. Yeah, that's a good moment. Nug's really feeling himself there. Gotta get that gold press.

That's gold press. Am I right? Yeah. Am I right? Oh. A greatest gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all.

FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post-show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it. The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023. We've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info. That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information

for the Share Your Embarrassment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris. And I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We get stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweards. Pat Noswald.

Could I get a Balrog burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Nanjiani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org. Look, your podcast apps are open. Just pull it out. Give Jordan Jesse Goatry.

Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead. Oh, rice. Hey, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line. And, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line and boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they've such short nacks.

But I'm here and we need to get on this. We've got to get on the art. It is about terrain, about a spout to destroy humanity. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. We're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different.

Have you heard of Ono Ross and Carrie? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boats. We came two by two. What do you think?

Ono Ross and Carrie, available on MaximumFun.org. What do we have coming up on the very next episode, Ben? Well Adam, the next episode can be found to be described in the following way. Of course, it's a season three episode 14, Heart of Stone, while traveling in a runabout cure an auto learn that a make-wee ship has ambushed a lecipian vessel. Hmm. Moderately interesting sounding. Do you want to hear another streaming services take on this episode?

I really do. A desperate situation that could cost Kira her life forces Odo to face the depth of his feelings for her. Two, I would say the only two words those descriptions have in common is probably a Kira and Odo. I do like a Kira episode. Yeah, it seems like we're doubling down on episodes that have emotional consequences for Kira. Yeah, give me all of those. Heal yeah. It appears her hair has been weighed down by all of this though. Yeah, she's carrying a lot on her hair.

What do you say we take it to the board, Ben, and by the board, I mean, Game of Buttholes will have the profits. Yeah, you can go to goch.biz slash game. So look at this. Beautifully designed by our buddy Felipe Sobriero. And coded up by Craig Anderson. Oh, I believe it's in the UK. The board game is pretty extensive and pretty awesome to look at.

Yeah, pretty great. We are currently, our runabout is currently on square 31, where just ahead there is a measure of a man square and then a few squares after that a quirk spar episode. Boy, I really liked the measure of a man app. We did last time we recorded. And also, I think we flipped a Friends of Desotto challenge coin when we decided who was going to be four and who was going to be against that time. And recently, I think it was on Reddit, somebody did like an analysis of how random the flips are on our challenge coins.

And they flipped it like 256 times and it was perfectly 128 heads and 128 tails. What? Yeah. Wow, I would not have expected that. We've got one of the most reliably random challenge coins in the game, Adam. That is not a tactic you would want

to take to a roulette game, for example. Note the gambler's fallacy. Yeah, you mean, but if you handed this coin to data, he wouldn't have to squish it in his fist a bit before he flipped it. Right. Yeah, it'd be perfect. You would have to squish it in his fist a bit before he flipped it. Right. Yeah, it'd be perfect. You would need to squish it at all. Yeah. Well, uh, do you want to roll them bones? See what we're going to be doing? You're required to learn as you play roll. All right, here we go. And uh, Ben, I've rolled it to... CHULA!

Did I win? Hardly. Okay, that puts us right next to Philip a Louvreau. The runabout is sort of pointing at her, suggestively. But we are not going to be doing any particular type of greatest gen episode, just a regular old greatest gen episode. Speaking of randomness, I mean, like this, I don't know how this board game picks its random numbers.

There's like a, we have a little interface on the admin side to roll the dice. Yeah, I think it gives everyone what they want, a sprinkling of chance, a little bit of weirdness, but mostly the episodes that people have come to know and love. I like the way the runabout is like offset a little bit so that we get Louvoir's whole face on the square, but also a little border stront around it, so we know which one we're on. What ever happened to fill up a Louvoir? Oh man, I would pay good money to see her pop up on a season three episode of DS9. Or perhaps in Picard, the new CBS show about Jean-Luc Picard.

Oh man, are you fucking kidding me? That would be amazing. It's just a sex scene. As you can see, we're physically quite different from our audience. And with your permission, I'm prepared to prove it to you. Yeah, and you know it shows everything, because it's not on television. All access shows it going in. Well, Ben, why don't you tell the people how they can support the show?

Oh, it's really easy. You can go to maximumfund.org slash donate and sign up to support the show on a monthly basis. That is the way that Adam and I feed our families these days. So we really appreciate everybody that does that. If this show is a appointment listening for you or if you've been through a couple of times, you've listened to every episode. Consider helping keep it free for other people because that is hugely appreciated by us and I think hugely appreciated by

folks who find this thing out there and Find it valuable. Yeah, we're especially talking to you wealthy people. Yeah, you can help subsidize the support for those who Who have a little harder of a time month to month. Yeah. And then when the step up to the plate on their behalf. And then when the revolution comes, you can point to that and we might not eat you. I think we're still going to eat you. Yeah, we're probably going to still eat you.

There are also free ways to support the show. If you have a pod catcher app of some kind, recommend or review the show give it a nice review say why you like it uh that always helps a ton uh also uh you know find other start trick communities online and recommend it to them or recommend it to a friend You may or may not know that uh Ben and I have other podcasts too we've got the greatest discovery about start trick discovery We also have friendly fire the war movie podcast. We would got the greatest discovery about Star Trek Discovery. We also have Friendly Fire, the War movie podcast. We would do with our friend John Roderick. Both of those are very different from this show,

but also Roll Fondle listen to. I would highly recommend both of them. We gotta thank the combination of dark material who makes the theme music for greatest-gen programming and also Adam Ruggusia who has made all the interstitial music for this show. He makes the music for our live show tours. He contributes so much to the greatest generation properties and we thank him. Our deepest thanks and also our deep thanks to our card daddy Bill Tilly who makes amazing

trading cards based on each episode and puts them on Twitter using the hashtag GreatestGen and also JJ Lendle who has been making amazing portfolio print style posters for upcoming episodes of DS9 and putting those up on Twitter. He really makes marketing the show easy, because Sunday night he puts that poster up, and I'm like, hey, this is coming tomorrow, and that feels good to both share his work and kind of tease the episode to come.

Yeah. Join the Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter communities surrounding this show. There are all kinds of different variations on that theme. You can learn to cook or have fun hangs with LGBTQ members of the Friends of Disoto groups, all kinds of different sub-variations and they're all findable online. And we feel so lucky for how good and chill those communities are. Primarily because of the hard work of the mods and admins of those groups,

who work tirelessly to keep them cool and fun places to hang out and not toilets full of assholes. You might think that joining those groups might mean you have to get married, based on the weight of people getting married to join those groups You don't have to oh you can stay single if you want that's fine or you can stay married to whoever you're already married to Yeah, I Mean if they find out you joined they might they might think differently about that But you know your mileage may vary look leave us out of it, okay? Your mileage may vary look leave us out of it, okay?

And with that we'll be back at you next time with another great episode of Star Trek Deuce Base Dine and an episode of the greatest generation. It's hard as a rock This will be a first I guess it's your new pick out of the you I guess it's your new pick out of the you I guess it's your new pick out of the you I guess it's your new pick out of the you I guess it's your new pick out of the you I guess it's your new pick out of the you I guess it's your new pick out of the you I guess it's your new pick out of the you

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