The Greatest Generation - Bad Grain Thresher Mindset (VOY S7E15)

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

When Voyager gets sucked through a donut hole and into a void, it’s another space mugging and the crew has no way out. But when Captain Janeway starts building an alliance by giving away the store, her principles cause a stir but ultimately earn her some valuable new friends. How do you know when it’s door day? Does Garon have a passion outside of work? What could Neelix do to actually improve morale? It’s the episode where powders are wet all over the place!Support the production of The Greatest Generation.Friends of DeSoto for Democracy.Friends of DeSoto for Justice. Friends of DeSoto for Labor.Follow The Game of Buttholes: The Will of the Caretaker!Music by Adam Ragusea & Dark MateriaFollow The Greatest Generation on Twitter, and discuss the show using the hashtag #GreatestGen!The Greatest Generation is on YouTube.Facebook group | Subreddit | Discord | WikiSign up for our mailing list!Get a thing at podshop.biz!

Here's to the finest crew in Starfleet. Engage! Watch your back, Shabu Shalu. I'm Captain Cap, bringing what the U.S. says for the... Captain Cap, bringing what the U.S. says for the... Captain Cap!

Welcome to The Greatest Generation. It's a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys, just a little bit embarrassed about having a Star Trek podcast. I'm Adam Pranicka. I'm Ben Harrison. I don't know if past me did a good job in making present me feel much better on a day. What is this?

Day two of the category four rainstorm LA has gotten. Past me took doors off of his home. Yeah. Used a circular saw to like cut an angle and some material from the bottom of the doors so that the swelling that would occur during a rainstorm like this wouldn't seal him shut. Yeah, yeah. You do want the doors to operate.

And I'm looking at the doors of my house. Stuff is swole, man. Stuff is really swole. Your doors have been working out. Doors aren't like clothes though, you know? Like once you shrink clothes, they're never coming back. But it feels like doors are coming back. They come back.

Yeah, the back door of my house has basically been a problem ever since we moved in. And I think every summer I take like a rasp to it and grind off more and more material. Like there's not gonna be a door eventually if I keep up with this. Cause yeah, it swells up every winter and then like it's like really annoying to use.

What are you supposed to do? I don't know. It seems like there are materials that aren't affected by water and yet they make doors out of materials that are. I think you just said it Ben. What do we do in having wooden doors? They should be made of steel. That's... They should be made like like bank vault doors. Every one of steel. That's... They should be made like bank vault doors. Every one of them.

They should be made of the same stuff as those robots that are always trying to steal my medication. I don't even know why the scientists make them. I don't know. I mean, this is how it is. Like before we got on the mic, it's just you and me talking about water mitigation. Yeah. So much of the money that we have borrowed against the value of our property has just been put back into water mitigation.

And we live in an arid place. It's so frustrating. Yeah, man. I don't know. It's cold. It's dark. Yeah. It's wet.

It's void-like, Ben. I would love to be able to say I live in a pretty shitty house, but at least it's dry, but I can't even really say that, and that's really how the Voyager crew feels. That's right. Powder's wet all over the place on either side of this video call. And on the show we're here to talk about, Ben. Let's get into it.

Season seven episode 15, The Void. Reverse course. Unless you've got something a little bigger in your torpedo tubes, I'm not turning around. If you were to plan any kind of fancy meal on Voyager, I gotta believe tasting menu cooked by seven served by Neelix, not at the top of your list. No, that's not exactly the 11 Madison Park

of dinner menus. It's a crazy callback to seven because she's not just eating stuff and blowing her breath into the doctor's face anymore. This is a great leap for her and but I don't think there's been any scenes of her culinary curiosity between then and and now, right? This is yeah, it's a deep cut like you have to remember that that was a thing at one point. Preparing meals myself is the best way to ensure quality. It's a double date.

It's the captain in Chico Te on a date with Tom and Boulana. It's kind of a fun thing, right? Like a little bit more of an established couple in Tom and Boulana going out with a couple that's kind of like, are we a thing? Like, is this going to happen? I had the opposite take on this. This has got to really burn Chico Te's pencils to be the devil in this situation.

The hopelessness of the potential here, come on. You don't think he thinks he's got a shot? I don't. Wow. I don't. I'd probably go for more of that cider out of the cargo bay if I were him. Drinking real cider, breaking real pencils under the dinner table. Seven is a very touchy chef.

This is one of those, there's no substitutions kind of restaurants. You know, there's no salt and pepper shaker on the table. Tom asks for a little bit of extra seasoning and she is fucking touchy about the seasoning, man. I'm sorry. If the quail hasn't been prepared to your satisfaction, I could replicate something more to your liking. Peanut butter and jelly sandwich, perhaps. I like this.

I can be a little touchy about that. Taste the food first. Yeah, so if you like it. Why are you hitting it before even tasting it? Yeah. What if I over-salted? That's like a sex rap lyric. Hitting it before tasting it. Can't do that. Not in my mind. I mean, why not? I'd say go for it. To do it in whatever order makes you happy. Did you clock the random guy in the background who I thought at first was security dude But the more I thought about him and that he was wearing red. Yeah, that's command hospitality

Isn't it is that ensign has met? I mean the red I think says a lot Yeah, you only ever see him in this scene and also later also in the mess hall. Yeah He's the guy that shows you your room when you come aboard. He's the guy that stands at attention while you eat your coursed out dinner. And he's the guy that cleans up when each other's brother is taking lunch break, you know? Yeah. Yeah, this poor guy. Hey man, you missed a spot.

This poor guy doesn't do much this episode besides falling the ground. I like that. The banger hits, over he goes. Yeah, they're getting some seasoning of their own. A sprinkling of Graviton's, anyone? Yeah, more please. The Voyager is being pulled into a space butthole of enormous size, one of the biggest we've ever seen on this show.

It's a great big hurl. Or they get sucked in really quickly. Like the people that were enjoying this dinner up on the bridge, realizing that they're getting sucked, and Nelix and the anonymous ensign stand up and look out the window in the mess hall and see a ship coming into attack

and no stars in the background. I like this shot. I like this scene. There's something about a starless space that's especially horrifying to see. Yeah. It gives me real Nagelum vibes, you know? Yeah, totally.

I must've been taking a note when I watched this episode because when I'm looking at my notes right now and I'm like, Tom and Neelix, look out a starless window. I wonder if this extra, this anonymous guy in the red shirt is Tom Paris' stand-in. The back of the head is the same haircut. I mean, a lot of guys had this back of the head haircut in 2001.

I mean, the back of my head basically looks like this. Sure. Just my hair's a little bit darker. Yeah. I would thought a lot about their transit to the bridge, belly's full, kind of a heightened anxious moment. You gotta figure someone's feeling nauseous here, right? Yeah, they've been taking the wine pairings all through, right?

I'll have another glass of the Chardonnay. Each course has been paired with a specific wine. Substitutions are not recommended. The Pinot Noir sounds perfect. I doubt that that was their first course getting dropped on the table at the beginning of this episode. They're probably pretty overwhelmed the way you can be when you're on like course five of an 11 course meal. This ship that's shooting them is kind of packing a wallop and Voyager shooting back and then another ship

shoots the attacking ship and that guy fucks off, but this other ship starts attacking Voyager. Oh man, and this is just all so confusing and nobody's answering hails. And then we start cutting around the ship and stuff is getting beamed away like barrels and they're grow up in the belly of the ship and some guy's laptop.

Just two seconds with Ichchib's brother, like as the mop gets beamed away and it's just, hey, and that's it. Solid bit. It kind of reminded me of that episode where Paris says I feel like we just got mugged. Mm-hmm, yeah, it's another mugging. It's another mugging and Jacote starts rattling off what got jacked.

It is 90% of their food, a huge amount of their deuterium and a computer and they're like deuterium. Why would you steal that? You consume a lot more science fiction than I do. I don't think that's a controversial take. What I wanna ask you is, throughout your entire life of science fiction consumption, yeah.

Is food always food to everyone? Like, and the reason I ask this is like, these aliens steal voyagers food, but that's because it's also food to them. How common is it that food is always food and food isn't something else to an alien? Yeah, that's definitely a thing. In the expanse novels, when they start going to planets and other solar systems, spoiler alert. Like there are ecosystems on those planets,

but they're like completely different. You know, they evolved in such a different way that like if you like, you know, touch a worm, it might make you blind or something, you know? Sure, yeah, I'd never do that. Yeah, they gotta bring their own food on those kind of planets. So yeah, I mean, I think that do that. Yeah, they gotta bring their own food on those kind of planets. So, yeah, I mean, I think that the aliens in Star Trek are fucking lucky to share a galaxy with the Federation.

I mean, it just seems like terribly bad luck for Voyager that everyone wants to eat what they've got and take their deuterium and grab a bunch of their gear. Yeah. That sucks. And this place is full of potential danger because Tuvek scans and he's like, there's 150 ships out there, 29 of them have life signs. So they're dropping like flies and it's a pretty alarming situation they found themselves in.

They're like, man, like nobody even wants to talk to us until this one dude pulls up. This is General Valin. And he's sort of the welcoming committee. He's the first person to give them any context for what's happened to them. It is low key a really, really big move of him to beam over, I thought. Yeah. That's a big balls move by General Valin. Because he doesn't have to do this. He doesn't have to greet. He doesn't have to come over and sort of give them the PowerPoint presentation of what this hole is.

But he does it. It kind of introduces him as someone who may have some flexibility in his thinking. Right. But that is not true at all. No. So he explains that they're all trapped in this donut shaped anomaly

that they refer to as the void. And he's been stuck here for five years. And he's like, you know, you're new. So it's only natural that you're gonna be thinking about escaping. Don't bother. It's not really possible. But you know, I like you guys, you seem nice.

You got a very interesting ship here and I noticed you have torpedoes. So you give me some of those and I'll kind of put you on to which bad guys have your gear and which bad guys have good gear and you can go swipe stuff from them that will enable you to survive as you await the clutches of death in this void

that you can't escape from. I don't think anything is wrong with Valin Perse, but I really could have used some more like haunted house vibes from him. Even like Star Trek 6 prison warden style like, there are no stars, no planetary bodies, no allied ships, only an infinite donut to nothingness. Like, I wonder if he was directed out of that kind of vibe because like so many other aspects to this scene provide that like the darkness out the window

and the darkness on the ship when they decide to conserve power could have been fun. I wish he'd looked a little bit more Riker in a Borg's future, like desperate and. But the winners don't look like Riker in the Borg's future, like desperate and- But the winners don't look like Riker in the Borg's future, do they? No, the winners go home and fuck the prom queen, you know? That he looks kind of unbothered,

I think suggests that he's doing all right for himself. Yeah, Janeway has a pretty hard line on the we don't give weapons to people under any circumstances thing and he's like none of your rules should apply like you're never getting out so the like things that you were worried about like reprieves from command for in your old life just abandoned all that kind of thinking it's Stupid we're stuck in here. I do really like the take at the end of this scene

when Janeway finally says this. And I don't think that this is seen by her, but he kind of turns toward camera and he's got the slightest smile about how naive she's being here. Did you catch that? I didn't, but I like that. I like that as an acting choice.

I feel like he knows what's up here. Yeah So he's like all right. Well, you can keep thinking it over. You know where to find me in the void That's where I'll be It would be surprising for both of us if you found me outside the void, which again, I've told you is impossible to escape. Of course it's locked in. What? Listen to me, be careful, because I'm on my way to say this once. Go away.

Janeway and Chacote go down to the Warp Core and get an update from BLT that the same graviton stuff that pulled them in is still acting on them here inside this donut. So they are burning through the remaining deuterium that they have and remember a lot of it got stolen. They're using power at 10x speed of what they normally do. I mean, they projected out to 10 days of power left.

This has got to give Chico Tei some thoughts, like a last day of school is in 10 days kind of thoughts. And if I'm gonna make a move, Right. I better do it before summer vacation. There's a shot of him arms of Kimbo in a storage bay. He flicks a light and there's like a big slab of granite there and then he just pulls out some carving tools

for pulls up his sleeves. It's time for the finest bathtub that's ever been fashioned. Sounds great. But before you can do that, they go to the ASLAB where seven is like, all right, I've been studying this thing and we used some algorithms and we figured out, like we can predict when the holes happen

that suck stuff into the void. And so we can just go get out. It's a little bit tricky. It's like timing. It is an amount of power that will kind of use up a lot of what they've got left. The visual is kind of striking, isn't it? Like the space donut that we've seen in an earlier scene

is now covered with like the suck disc style trumpet bells, tuba bells are sticking out of it. And like it's not just that you go up the other side of one of these and zoom out the back. There's like a prolapsing action to this hole. And you need to like Floor it on the warp drive as soon as you you get to the end. Otherwise you're gonna be trapped Do they even have the power to do this is is the question at the end and

Because they don't know the plan is to try this as soon as possible and as soon as possible is the next scene Look if you only had one shot or opportunity to get outside of the void, would you take it? Would you capture it? Or just let it slip? Yo, the ship's not ready. Shields weak. Gravitons are heavy. A mess on the mess hall floor already, seven spaghetti." Everybody's, yeah, so they gotta go, they gotta give this a try. I mean, I love the idea that this just works. Yeah, but so, per season, it's like, wow, that was close. Yeah, they hit warp, they fly out, and then they roll the credits. He's not seeing that coming. I would love a, you know, Simpson's Halloween episode style episode of Star Trek, where it's like, yeah, we like that one was fine, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. And then we got out of it and then and then we moved on, you know, little Tree house of horror There's usually three vignettes in those right give us two or three Short things that happen in an episode that aren't connected to each other It would be such a fake out especially so close to the episode where Chacote tells Janeway of the pilot episode, you know all of the crazy and awful adventures she would get into.

Yeah. Like right on the heels of that, just an easy one, just a wiffle ball of a mission here. Pretty great. So they hit the gas when they go up this funnel and they get so close, man. They can see the stars of the galaxy outside the funnel and then it closes and it goes to white

and you just see the ship poop back down into the void. I would have loved like a swarm of new ships trying to attack them like, another new guy. Yeah. You know. I love the idea of a stall in space and that's what you watch here. Like, oh, it's so close. Yeah.

So close to getting out and then it just sort of like spins and falls again. It's neat to see. And this used up a ton more energy than they really had to spare. This is gonna make it a lot harder. You know, the ship is basically fucked for like a week. The warp course offline.

It's not looking good for old Starship Voyager. In the conference room, they need to discuss the next steps here. Issue one. Sure, they can survive a little while with like the barest of power consumption rates, but what they need is more deuterium. And Janeway has the idea to find the ship that stole from them originally.

So they do, except that ship's been destroyed and all their stuff is gone also. But this ship does have one thing of value aboard that hasn't been looted and that is the casing around its warp core. So they beam that over the cargo bay. I love Dark Voyager. I think we've said this before when ships go dark, there's so much more interesting to be inside. And when seven and BLT are walking through the corridor

to the cargo bay using just their wrist rocket flashlights, like I love this stuff. So good. And it's such a good looking prop. Like it's the casing around a warp core from a ship that was probably kind of shitty on the inside, but it's also been like cut open with energy beams. So it's all like melty and shitty looking.

Yeah, this is composed of some material that they'll be able to use to make a power source, to buy themselves some time at the very least. And, you know, like they're debating what the priority is gonna be. Seven's like, cool, well, we can use this to fire the ass lab back up. And PLT's like, how about life support?

So they're scanning this thing when they see movement inside. This is another opportunity the episode has to choose horror and chooses against that because there's a music sting for this moment and it's one of those like shrieks of a string section, you know, like in an aliens film that you don't get here. And I think that's really instructive

for how you're supposed to treat this stowaway going forward. You're supposed to treat them with empathy and not fear. Yeah, the choice to make his blood orange and not red also takes away from the idea that this is a scary character. Yeah. Like even an injured person, like I feel like if you saw red

and you heard that those freaking violins, you'd be like, what's going on? And instead you're like, oh man, this poor guy, he's probably had a really rough day. It's interesting how many of those elements it takes to supersede dark location though, right? Yeah. Because I think if you don't do one of those elements it takes to supersede dark location though, right? Yeah. Because I think if you don't do one of those, the combination of dark and red blood or dark

and music sting, I think equals fright. But that's not what this is. Yeah. Go to Six Bay where they've taken this character and doctor. Oh, hi, Mark. He's talking about, yeah, I mean, I've been trying to help him with that wound on his leg. I mean, it doesn't seem like that bad,

but I can't get close enough to help him because he doesn't trust me and he can't talk to it. Like he doesn't seem to have any language. He's just hungry and he breathes a lot. Two things we know about him. Did you get Mr. Peeper's vibes from this type of alien? He comes from the Amazon rainforest and is the descendant of the Eosimius primate.

We should say up top too, this is Jonathan Delarco playing this character. Oh, is it? How fun. I was shocked by this performance because he was not recognizable to me at first. Like I learned this in the credits that this is him. I thought such was his physical acting that Jonathan Delarco disappeared into this to me.

I think we talked about that last week that Jonathan Delarco was gonna be in this one, but I had totally forgotten. I just expected him to be like a lofi alien in the void somewhere, not the stowaway. Yeah. He's skittish like a street dog or something, right? Like he's been traumatized big time.

He just wants to stay in the corner and eat some food. And, you know, they throw him an apple and he starts eating it and it just fragments of it fly everywhere. You have a cage or leash or something. No, no, no. He's fine, he's fine. It's a big hit with the crowd, huge pop.

When he does that, that's what they're there to see. And you're like, you know, I understand why they never made this one into a feature film, you know? Because like, well, where could you even go with it? But also like, you know, I have a soft spot in my heart for this type of character. Jane was curious about how this person survived the void. And the answer is, he's got great big lungs.

Yeah. No one thinks about maybe studying those lungs as a gift for Nelix. Nelix who still lives with one. Yeah. I mean, that's especially interesting given, you know, some of the developments later in the episode where they're starting to be like,

yeah, like we're learning a ton from these people. And they offer to help Voyager too. Janeway gets called up to the conference room where Tuvok and Kim have a fix on Valon's ship. They're pretty sure that he's the one that took all of their stuff from the ships that they just pulled up on. And we smash cut to a FaceTime where Janeway is talking to him and he is expecting this

to be them coming and being like, okay, here's some torpedoes. Can we please have our stuff back? I think this could be adjudicated for a lot of scenes that involve Janeway and the people of the void. Do you think she should have been a little more pissed off here? Her vibe being, you should really give it back, please. Kind of sucks. I mean, it's usually give it back, please. Kind of sucks. I mean, it's usually give it back or else.

Like at least they give her the dignity of the standup from her chair and the camera looking up into her face from below when she makes this proclamation. Yeah, it's true. I mean, she's always gonna give a person the opportunity not to die. But I guess it's unclear. I don't know, this is the first of many scenes

where she's like, instead of going for the kill, she's like, target their shields or whatever. She's never going for the kill inside the void. Yeah. Objection noted, we'll do this without you. Do it. Do it. Do it.

Objection noted, we'll do this without you. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Objection noted, we'll do this without you. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Later in her office, Chakote and Tuvaka are like, hey, so we've been talking and we thought maybe being a little bit more opportunistic

and like sucker punching some of these people and taking their stuff might be called for in this circumstance. And also like, we've been drinking recycled piss while you appear to be using precious power resources to make coffee for yourself. This is a moment for Janeway to be the Starfleet officer that you teach to kids in the academy, right?

The one who chooses the charter for guidance. But like, it seems pretty clear that Tuvaak and Chacote want to read the Mayquiz charter. Mayquiz? A little bit, or maybe like do some shuffling of Mayquiz pages into the Federation pages a bit. Yeah. Cause like this ancient text was written a long time ago

by folks who couldn't even conceive of their circumstances, right? The technology they use or all the rest of the things they've got to deal with. Like the writers of the federation charter probably suffered from malnutrition and syphilis. Like what the fuck could they possibly know about the challenges they face?

The luxury that the framers have is they don't have to live in the void. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And why are originalists like Janeway given the same respect as like actual scholars who get to be like originalists are just intellectually lazy while

To argue against originalism actually takes some critical thinking. Yeah and creativity It's a shame, but yeah, this episode really feels like a microcosm for the entire Series in a way get there right Janeway is Continuously confronted with, do we violate our morals? Do we have a Cisco-like dark night of the soul? Oh. Or...

Would love that. Do we hue to our morals in this circumstance? And she's like convinced herself that, again, this is a time to stand on principle. And so what she has come up with this idea herself that, again, this is a time to stand on principle. And so what she has come up with this idea of putting together a kind of scrappy group of bad news bears, aliens from within the void, doing mutual cooperation and working together with others on a means of escape.

There's coffee in that temporary alliance with other ships. This idealism pill is not an easy one for Tuvac and Chacote to swallow, but this does not turn into one of our classic, you know, Chacote and Janeway nose to nose, alone in the room. And you're like wondering, is this gonna be the moment

that Chacote starts considering a mutiny? Yeah, cause this pill is like a horse pill. They seem content to take it at this point. Did you think it- Oh, I have a question for you about horse pills. Does horse pill only connote big or does it also connote bad tasting to you?

I've never thought of it as bad tasting. I've only thought of it as big. My wife and I had a whole debate where she was like, yeah, it's like a horse pill. And I was like, oh, it was a small pill. And she was like, yeah, but it tasted so bad. And I was like, oh, I thought that it was just a big pill when you say horse pill. What's interesting about that argument is it suggests that she knows what horse pills taste like,

or that she knows someone who knows what horse pills taste like in a way that maybe you shouldn't. She has hung out with a lot of ketamine enthusiasts. Everyone knows how big horse pills are. Not many people know how they taste. I was wondering if she was attempting to launder the Federation Charter through the Alliance in such a way that could allow them to get the materials

they needed through squishy means. You know what I'm saying? Like when this scene breaks, she's like, alliance out of the way, baby. And in my mind, I was like, oh, cool, use the alliance. Like that way you're clean. But that's not it at all. You're not breaking any rules.

That's not part of the pill. We come back from a commercial break and we're getting a captain's log about how forming this alliance has been very tricky and we cut in media, McLaughlin group. Yes, you do. Where she's pitching, I think, like the fourth command staff of another ship on this idea. And these are a kind of alien that we've met before. I think I couldn't remember what they were

called, but she's like, yeah, so this would be like a share technology and resources, work together on escaping the void, kind of a plan. And I know that like having been in here and getting treated like shit by everyone else makes you inherently skeptical of this. So just to kind of sweeten the pot, you can help yourselves to some chow

and some medical resources on your way out. This guy, Garon, is played by Scott Lawrence, who is, to me, a total that guy. And I was like, oh, I've seen this guy in a thousand things. But when I looked at his IMDB, I was like, he's not really been in that much. Why is he so familiar to me? I don't know.

He's really got a familiar face. Maybe he's just got one of those faces, yeah. Yeah. Like it's one thing to hear Janeway go, we're gonna give it away and form a strong alliance. But it is quite another thing to sit in this meeting and watch her do it. And you get some background takes from,

I feel like those on her side of the table, and I don't feel like everyone's on board. Like Nelix definitely is, Nelix tries his ass off here in kind of a great moment, but like. But like Tuva and Chacote are the salesmen that are not convinced that the like grain thresher they're trying to sell,

the farmer is actually that good. Yeah, it's real bad grain thresher mindset. Yeah, they slap the hood of it and they're like, this thing really threshes. And you can tell their hearts just not in it. I think part of my problem with this moment is that this guy is on his way out the door and it doesn't seem like the gift

is gonna move the needle at all. It seems unnecessary. Yeah. I don't know. Something felt a little off about this. Seven and the captain have a walk and talk and seven is also pretty skeptical at this idea of making an alliance.

And like the captain is like, no, this is a great idea. I know that all of four of the ships we've approached with this haven't joined up, but it's starting to work. I can just feel it. Seven's like, where's my favorite phase compensator? And Janeway is like, I gave it to Garen of the Nigerians. And seven's like, what the fuck? Jen was like, you'll also probably not enjoy hearing

that I've turned your cargo bay alcove into a sewing room for Garen and the Nigerians. His passion is making quilts. And he hasn't been able to pursue that in the void. And this is the only way we can sell him on the Alliance. This scene isn't, I mean, the object isn't a lot that she's given away, but it represents just how willing Janeway is to just

kind of give away the store here. Yeah. And it's not like Seven is super duper pissed about the phase compensator, but it does represent a way of being. And this is the moment in the episode where I started to turn against Janeway and started wondering when mutiny would start to be discussed, right? I was wondering about how you would react to this episode as I was watching. I was like, I bet, I bet Adam turns on Janeway for this one.

Yeah, it just doesn't seem right in a whole lot of ways. You think I'm being inefficient. Tuvok thinks I'm being illogical. You both could be right. Over in Six Bay, Dr. Mark's chosen the music in a public area that also I find disagreeable. Now, if you want to go to Six Bay, you got to listen to his opera music or something, but the upside is that it does have a soothing effect to this patient. A patient that is now named Phantome as in of the opera. It's Phantome, not Phantome. No, he's not named after colors.

Seven starts to make some headway communicating with this guy after realizing that music has soothed the soul of the savage beast. She starts making tones on the computer and there's like a bowl and a hypospray and she like starts to use a tone to signify one and then a different tone to signify the other, forming the foundation of a tone-based language that Phantom S is very excited about. Don't you love how low-key this moment is?

Like, they create a language architecture for each other in the span of like 15 seconds. That's, I think, comparable to a close-encoun encounters movie moment. Yeah. And there is no like swell from the orchestra and like this isn't a great moment in Star Trek history. This is so ordinary in a great way.

It's just a passing moment in the episode. And it doesn't like anybody that has watched any movies or television shows knows that this is planting something that will pay off ultimately, but it doesn't feel like eh, eh, look at this, this is going to be something, right? You know, it's not like there isn't a neon sign going like get a load of this interesting turn in the episode. Right, right. So this is a maybe seed for later.

We cut over to Paris and BLT's quarters. Nelik's somehow still hireable with the condition of the ship. Like how bored does he have to be if he can't cook? I guess he's trying in this moment. He's serving up a dinner date feast with that guy from the cold open. He's in there.

He never left. No, he gets knocked down, but he gets up again to expo this food, I guess. And on the menu, a bowl of eyeballs, followed by a course of boob cookies. And before they're able to get to that third course, Tuva calls the staff to the bridge. So like saved by whatever that is. I don't think you want to see the third course.

The emergency on the bridge is that a new funnel has opened and it's pulling in a new ship. And this new ship is obviously going to get targeted by some of the more unsavory members of the Void community. Of course, Valin is among them. And he and another ship are licking shots at these guys. And Janeway actually is like defending them and then gets on FaceTime with the other ship. And it's those Eggmen from that episode last season.

I love these guys. I surrender. Yeah, nice to see them again. These are folks from the hierarchy. Yeah, you know, they're just a scanning ship and they're pretty poorly defended, but Voyager gets in there, they're mixing it up with these other ships and the ship from before, Captain Byte Garen,

comes in and saves the day at the last minute. So now we got three ships in an alliance. Now everyone knows that any great alliance should have a great name. So what my theory presupposes is that the hierarchy, the Kray-Lorth and Nigerians and the Federation create something that we could call the higher-ray G-Nation alliance. That's just a working title. Yeah. I think you can get an over- counter cream for a higher eugenation.

Right. Yeah, you don't need a prescription for that one. Yeah, but consult your pharmacist. This is a great start and it kind of suggests that like their ability to grow the alliance is way more possible. Like all it takes is, this is like multi-level marketing shit, right?

Like you get those first couple downstream, you're cruising baby. They start to make passive income from the stuff that the downstream people are doing. Yeah. They really start to see the potential of this. I've got to get that. Lock them. Get that. No, better large than candy.

I've got to get that. Lock them. What now? Are you selling a high stuff? Gold. to get that. Lucknow! Are you selling a Heist? Gold.

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Hallelujah! Hello, welcome everyone! Step right up. We're going to heal you. We are the healers Ross and Kerry Yes, yes you there you look like you're upset come up here Yes, you are healed because you've listened to our podcast. Yes. Have you been having trouble with demons? Are you sleeping too much too little just right? We have the solution. It is to listen to Oh No, Ross and Carrie A show where we examine unusual claims We show up so you don't have to. Find us on MaximumFun.org

We won't actually heal you I'm gonna see you later. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it.

Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. proper meal and he's made happy. So yeah, like the potential for that guy, he's kind of looks like a birdman in the face. I thought he looked like a bird man too.

Yeah. A bird person I should say. Hmm, fair. The tech that they've traded for with the other members of the Alliance is also really impressive. Like it's massively improved the efficiency of their replicators. It kind of seems like Nelix is permanently not going to need to

worry about cooking after this point. Yeah. It's great news. It's weird that a morale officer would be so focused on increasing the morale of the ship, but that's only possible from them taking a great big step back from one of their biggest jobs on board, right?

Yeah. He's gotta be tortured by this. I mean, just lowering the overall amount of Leola root that's being inflicted on everybody might be the biggest win of Nelix's career. Yeah. Dr. Mark is walking toward the lunch room as all of this is being pitched at the bird person,

Captain Boussalle, and Tuvok runs into him and he and Phantom are doing like speak and spell with each other at this point. They're kind of like, they both got little like melodicas and they're like playing back and forth at each other at this point. They're kind of like, we both got little like melodicas and they're like playing back and forth at each other. This really does sound like two droids and Star Wars talking to each other, right? It does.

When Tuvok complements this as like an ingenious method of communication, I thought it was real fucked up that Mark was like, yeah, I mean, pretty clever if I do say so myself. Seven came up with that, Mark, you gotta give her credit. Come on. Yeah, not gonna happen. Sucks that even in a post-scarcity idealized future,

women can't get credit for their good ideas at work. Yeah, because it's written in a modern time. Yeah. They're on their way to the mess hall where Commander Passall, where Mark's on the parasite, hanging out with Dr. Mark, and ooh, that is a slur. Yeah, not a comfortable moment. And Janeway's like, well, if you don't like them that much,

like we could beam the ones that are on your ship off. And he kind of talks about them like they're just kind of a problem of life here in the void. Like everybody's got a few of these scurrying around. If my sensors could detect where they are on my ship, I'd exterminate them. We also have a being on our ship playing terrible music all the time and sometimes singing. We just have to deal with it. So that's another vote in the column of like, yeah, like maybe I will join your thing for Captain Bossal.

And we cut down to engineering where Janeway is giving him a tour of this gadget that they're working on. And this is a some kind of device that will help them make a huge shield that can be that can contain all of the ships in the Alliance so that when they make their run at escaping the void they can make it together and this thing is like not quite working and that's kind of an embarrassing moment for Jane, right? Like you never want the highlight of the tour to break down as you're walking the guests through the room.

Yeah, it's not a great look. And even worse look is happening in the ass lab where a couple of hierarchy toadies are like spying on this conversation and engineering. And when Tuvok finds them, instead of acting guilty, these guys are like, no, this is something for all of us to use, right? This is helping the Alliance,

because now we can spy on everybody. And this is the share. That's just what these guys do, you know? Like they're beavers, they're gonna make a damn wherever they are. Yeah, I love this. Whether or not it's true, I love that they took it in this direction once they were caught.

Yeah. So a bunch of these Phantom A's are now in Six Bay and they are all playing their instruments with each other. I'm having a great conversation. This is like a kindergarten music class. I did not like the sound of it. But Janeway loved it. Yeah, Janeway thinks it's great.

Lovely piece. She comes in and like, they're explaining like, oh yeah, so these guys, we beamed them over from Bostal's ship. And they, uh, like, learned it really quickly. Phantom A taught the rest of them way faster

than we were able to teach Phantom A, and now they're off to their races. Like they can probably do this telepathically, but they really like doing it out loud, and it started, this language of tones is starting to have its own grammar and everything. And I wanted somebody to be like, when is the universal

translator going to start interpreting it? I wanted Janeway to be like, is there a way they could play that through headphones or something instead of just out in public? It seems very inconsiderate. Just when you think nothing in the galaxy can surprise you anymore. Janeway is back down to engineering now,

and Bird Person has shown up with the exact part that they need, and she's like, where'd you get it? And it's like, oh yeah. She's like, why is there blood and hair on it? Commander Poesal, like, takes a shirt sleeve and like, oh, I wouldn't worry about that. I wouldn't worry about that. You should have seen their cake and face.

Anyways. Anyways. Happy birthday to me. Janeway realizes that he did something bad to get this. He killed a lot of people and she's like, well, that's not the kind of alliance we wanted to have bird person. We wanted to have the good kind

where everybody's happy to be there and we don't murder people for their stuff. She walk of shames him out of engineering and out of this scene and out of this alliance. She does this in front of everyone and he has to leave. And he takes those bloody hairy parts with him. I love how the next scene is like after a commercial, like the camera fades back up

and you see that there are way fewer ships in the alliance just from the shot of the ship in space. Yeah. And we have another walk-and-talk. The Alliance does not go well, Chico Tei. This is starting to be really discouraging. And Janeway's feeling bad because she kind of was so excited about getting Commander Bosal into the Alliance that she was willing to look past the horrible slurs that he slung at Phantom A. And, you know, she should have realized then and there that he wasn't really alliance material. I mean, she thought that they could make good things together. And like, the alliance and

the making of those things would be worth it even though he was a total drag to be around. And I mean, I think she admits to Chacote here that she thought about terminating their partnership a long time before this. And most people just thought it was the theft and the murder of the modulator parts. That was the reason when it was actually a whole lot of shitty stuff up to that point.

Yeah, I mean, you should have seen the texts that he sent her. Some of the cruelest stuff, like you would never work with somebody. Nobody would work with somebody that sends a text like that. Nobody. Nope. There's an interesting tension, though, that I think... I don't know if Janeway brings it up or Chacote does, but like, it's one thing to act with a sense of code or virtuousness, like, to,

you know, to create an alliance that you can be proud of. But like, I think the loud self-righteousness of it was kind of a turnoff for people and the allies. It's so bubbly, clawing, and happy. Just like the Federation. Like, I don't think it was just one or the other. Like, I think it was both things that kind of made it easier for people to leave.

Don't you think? Yeah, the idea that Janeway has sort of become a scold has definitely turned some of the other allies off. And in the ass lab, we find out that commander Bosall has just gone right over to Valin and signed up with the, I guess the Axis. I don't know, what's the other team called? In my head, I thought anti-alliance,

but that's actually just not an alliance. So I don't know what that is. Anti-alliance is just being real lonely. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it makes sense though, like Janeway can have good ideas and the alliance was one of them worth copying. Yeah. So they get to work and there's a big like engineering montage and,

you know, this includes what seems to be some kind of like tactics meetings, including one with Phantom Man, his little buddies, talking to Chukote and Mark about something that they might be doing. Because it's been pitched, like you guys can come with us when we escape. And they're like, they play a little melody to the effect of, no, we're good, we like the void,

we're gonna stay here. We learned earlier that that's where they're from. It's their herm. Do they have a planet? So little is answered about this. Like it seems like they have to be on ships. This is going to sound really insulting to this type of alien,

but it kind of seems like Posal wasn't completely wrong with the use of the parasite word. But it kind of seems like post-all Wasn't completely wrong With the use of the parasite word. I would use something more gentle like these people like They're like the the feeder fish Hmm, you know, yeah, they're just a part of of life inside the space donut. Maybe there is no home there There's no home inside the donut at all. I like that take.

I mean, they're just breaking down. They're like the bacteria that break down a corpse. Like Boussalle is dead already. He just doesn't know it. Yeah. And these guys are here to move that along. Boussalle is like a foot in a tub of water with fish in it. Yeah.

After this montage, we get, you know, like it's very quick. Like there is a red alert, like the alliance is heading toward a forming funnel. Dr. Mark says goodbye to Phantom A and the gang in the transporter room. The vermin get beamed away and Valin and Boussalle are like attacking the Alliance, but they lose engine power and the Alliance busts out into normal space. And like the only real tension in this comes from the fact that they tried it before and

it didn't work. It's just like, I guess it'll work this time. That's good. Great success. They're a happy goodbyes, exchanged in the transporter room. And off they go. They're separate ways. You like this episode, Ben?

You know, I'm really easy to get along with, most of the time. But. They're separate ways. You like this episode, Ben? You know, I'm really easy to get along with most of the time. But I don't like bullies. I don't like friends. And I don't like you. I'm a stupef. I did.

Like, I think that we've talked about some of the ways it's got some shortcomings over the course of this episode. But overall, I really enjoyed watching it. Like I personally really liked Janeway standing on principle in these moments and like finding comfort in the Federation Charter in like a situation where that feeling of despair could very easily overtake her and like, you know,

she could be forgiven for throwing her hands up and saying, fuck it, let's just mug a bunch of people and steal their shit. And I like the way, like, I kind of feel like this is the kind of episode I thought would be the main kind of episode in Voyager when it first started, when back when I was a kid, like it will just constantly be like a ton of new aliens that we've never met before and they're like trading technologies and things completely change

and they get out by the skin of their teeth. Like it really does feel like the entire series within, contained within one episode. And the choice that Janeway makes is the exact same choice that she made with the caretaker. It is like, we gotta do the right thing, not the thing that helps us most expeditiously in this moment.

And that's a tough sell for some of the aliens. It's a tough sell for some of her crew, but it bears out over the long term. And so I think because I like Voyager as a series, I like this episode. Yeah, I do appreciate that Janeway is always true to herself and her values. In this episode at least.

Yeah. I think where I start to get some friction with it are all of those moments where she's giving away the store. And it's really easy to claim that, you know, you'd rather die than go against the the Charter or whatever. But I mean, you only get a redemption arc if you live. The idea that it's worth dying for, I'm not sure I believe that. And I'm not sure a lot of people on the crew would either.

Like we only get three senior staff people, you know, close to the captain here during this decision-making. But I gotta believe like ship-wide, this can't be popular. People wanna get home and they always have wanted to get home and it's not just that Janeway chooses the most peaceful way of doing things, it's the giving away of their resources

that kind of doubles down on it in a way that, it made it just a little too easy that there was no pushback. There should have been another angle of conflict here on this plan and that it was so easy for her to get everyone on her level in order to do this. on this plan and that it was so easy for her to get everyone on her level in order to do this, it just felt too fast and easy to be satisfying, I think is my take.

It's not like I think Janeway's naive or stupid for her choice, it's that a choice this difficult couldn't possibly just be rammed through the way it was. I think that's where I'm at with it. That's fair. A little troubled by that. And like, there's a version of the story

that's like Captain Ransom, where like she goes full dark, but we've seen what that does. Like I think part of it is like the sequence of episodes. Like we still remember that guy. We still remember their conflict. Yeah. At least I do. R-S-V-P Captain Ransom.

Yeah. Well, do you want to see if we got anything in the priority one inbox, Adam? That's one void that is usually pretty full. Kind of makes it almost not a void, you know. Priority One Message from Starfleet coming in on Secure Channel. Need a supplement link? Supplement. Supplement?

Supplement. Supplement. Yeah, it's extra. By the interest alone, could be enough to buy this ship. Ben, our first priority one message is of a promotional nature. That message goes like this. Are you struggling to find time

to watch all the great prestige television out these days? So are we. Listen in to last time on as our hosts, Ben, Jaffer, and Victor, AKA Dominion Media Television, also don't have the time. So they watch a pilot roll some dice

and skip that many episodes, trying to figure out what the hell happened in between. We're currently watching Stargate SG-1, part of the What Happens Here podcast family, including Who Are You? Babylon 5 Watchcast. Say that was a show I was a guest on a little while ago. Oh, no kidding.

I know these parties. I am going to be a guest on that show later today. Hmm. On Who Are You? Not last time on, but... How about that is a coincidence. Yeah, that's a funny one. Well, uh...

But this isn't... You're not the Ben that Jaffer is referring to, right? You don't host this other show. You're gonna have to listen to find out. Wow. Tell him how to listen to it, Adam. You can check out last time on wherever you listen to podcasts. Alright. Our next priority one message is of a personal nature.

It's from Jess, your wife, and it's to Frank, my husband. Goes like this. This message of hope and love is from the past. We've been methodically viewing five greatest gen apps a week for one Earth year. That seems like a lot. Though we now traverse the space B-hole of DS9, it will take years more to catch up to Ben and Adam.

I pray that one day we hear this in a time when Raz and Plafim have reached an accord. There's no one I'd rather rip through this galaxy with than you. Watch him rip through five greatest gen Eps a week. It's a lot of greatest gen Eps. I don't know if this is the Jess and Frank that we know, but if it is, hi. And if not, hi other Jess and Frank that we know, but if it is high, and if not, high other Jess and Frank. Pretty amazing. I couldn't keep up with that rate.

Yeah. That's a lot. That's more podcasts than I have capacity to listen to at this point in my life. Ben, our final priority when message is from Defested and it's to Ben Adam Windy, Les Rizzo, and all San Francisco SketchFest FODs everywhere. All right. Their message goes like this,

a wonderful end to an excellent tour. Y'all made a truly excellent cheers to the best fan base in all four quadrants. Ha ha ha ha. Aw. Great to see and hang out with Defested out there at SketchFest and so many other FODs. Defested definitely got the gold star of came to the most live shows of any FOD in 2023 and even came to one in 2024. So. What a run so what a run what a run

Yeah, thanks to everybody that came out to our our sketchfest show. It was a good one Thanks to everyone who supports the show with a priority one message you can do the same over at maximumfun.org slash jumpo tron Hey, Ben. What's that Adam? Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda? Incredible. Drunk Shimoda. Ooh, man, I think I might give it to Enchin Hospitality just for being a guy.

There were a couple of people in this episode that I was like, did this person win a contest? Like the camera cut over to the lady work in the transporter in a way that felt very unusual for Voyager in this episode. And I was like, who's she? There's just a couple of people like that. Like there are extras in the background that you see all through this series.

And you're like, no, that's a familiar extra. He was on set with these guys the whole way through and never got a line. And then there are others where you're like, where did this person come from? What is to explain them? Like this ensign in the lunch room with Nelix, like it seems like this character must have been

in the script, you know, because it's so specific. This guy is John Bruegel. Yeah. Like it seems so specific that he is there. But why is he there? What is he doing? And so much of him is obscured. Like he's in the background.

Yeah. And like dinner covers him up. He received no credit for this appearance. Oh man. But describes this chance as a lifelong dream. He was a professional background actor. Amazing. How about that?

He has a long dead webpage at starfleetofficer.com which was about his experience doing this that one time. Wow. And it's probably cashed in the internet way back machine if you wanna read more about it. Oh man. Wild, huh? Sad to let a domain like that lapse.

Yeah. You don't just let a domain like that lapse according to John Bruegel. Amazing. Yeah, I mean, that's as good of a Shimoda as any. I think I'm gonna make it mine too. Okay. It seems like this is an experience

that really had a profound effect on him. And I like the idea that you could be an actor and be a background actor and all sorts of things. And maybe most of those experiences don't mean anything at all to you. But I like the idea that this guy was in the background of all kinds of things and then finally got like the dream background job. And he's got an episode of Voyager to show for it.

That's pretty cool. So yeah, John Brugal, he's my drunk Shimoda. I'm into it. Yeah. Do it, do it, do it. Ben, I'm gonna go over to the game of buttholes, the rule of the caretaker, to figure out how we're going to watch the next episode, while you tell us what that next episode's gonna be like.

It's season seven, episode 16, Workforce, part one. Janeway Tuvaak, seven, Tom, and Belana are workers on an alien planet where they have no memory of their past lives aboard Voyager. Man, imagine being pregnant and having no memory of your past life. I mean, is it good and satisfying work in a place that appreciates you?

That sounds okay. Yeah, let's see if this alien planet has a good parental leave policy, you know? Yeah, this could be an improvement. Who knows? That's what I'm holding out for. Ben over at the Game of Buttholes, we're on the doorstep of a His Eyes Uncovered episode.

That's the Tamarian Language episode. Oh yeah. That friends of De Soto have Grown to love few squares beyond that a banger which would move us five squares back. That's all That's all we got ahead. You're required to learn as you play Roll see if I can thread this needle Ben I've rolled a two that means we're on square 22 Ben, I've rolled a two. That means we're on square 22. Two la! Did I win?

Hardly. It's a regular old episode for us. Oh yeah. Free from the Tamarian language. Free from the Tamarian slurs that I know you and I would come up with. That's really reassuring. And I'm sure reassuring for all of the people that hate that format. And tell us about it every time we do.

And give us a nice review. Why don't you? You know, if you enjoyed this as much as we enjoyed making it, leave a five star review in Apple Podcast. Help us rise in the rankings. A legacy show like ours now kind of is. Has a hard time finding a new listener or two and we can sure use them. Yeah, if you're consuming five episodes a week, I think a review at this point is probably...

I would say don't wait. I think you're ready to write that review. Yeah. Jess and Frank can, in good conscience, assess this show. Yeah. If you're anything like them, or even listening to one a week and enjoy listening to it, give us a... You know, it takes five seconds. Go in there, tap the fifth star over and write what you like down about the show. Not a big lift.

We really appreciate it. It seems like it wouldn't make a difference, but it really does. MaxFun Drive's coming up. If you're interested in becoming a supporter or upgrading your membership, some real exciting announcements coming up about that. Get ready, I'm excited. The show is produced by our excellent producer, Wendy Pretty.

Social medias are managed by Bill Tilley, the card daddy. You can hang out with our enormous audience of FODs in so many places. The Discord being one of the favorites, drunkshamota.com is where you can find an audience that I think over on the Discord had a recent milestone, Ben, 3,000 members of the Discord. Can you believe it?

That is a lot of members. Yeah. Yeah, pretty wild. I mean, Klingons just have the two. Hashtag Greatest Gen is how you can find FODs on every other social media network that there is. Go make a friend. Go make 3,000 friends.

I dare you. You gotta thank Nick Ditmore who made the show art and great Adam Ragusea who made the Janeway song. Art of Theme Music probably toiling right now on theme music for what this becomes when we run out of Janeway to talk about. Which isn't that far away. Yeah.

Look at us. Get excited. Well, with that, we will be back at you next week with another great episode of Star Trek Voyager, episode of the Great Star Trek Voyager, episode of the greatest generation Voyager where we do need to talk about the family leave policy at Oxford, because a month off wasn't enough for me and I'd like more time now. Yeah, I just had guests over, so I also could have used more time for that.

Yeah, yeah. Give Adam a break. So I also could have used more time for that. Yeah. Yeah Give Adam a break Fucking bosses at this company bunch of assholes Make it so. Make it so. Your group is caught, caught, caught, caught.