The Greatest Generation - Stick Man Arms Race (VOY S6E13)

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

When aliens of dubious superiority show up in Voyager’s sicksbay, they’re so taken by the EMH’s singing that they invite him to perform on their home world. But when Doc Holoday’s concert earns him a taste of fame, his willingness to leave Voyager puts his most important relationships at risk. How did Marc Maron do it all those years? What constitutes groupie behavior? Why pivot away from children’s classics? It’s the episode that knows what it feels like to wear a metaphorical clown suit!Support the production of The Greatest Generation.Friends of DeSoto for Democracy.Friends of DeSoto for Justice. Friends of DeSoto for Labor.Follow The Game of Buttholes: The Will of the Caretaker!Music by Adam Ragusea & Dark MateriaFollow The Greatest Generation on Twitter, and discuss the show using the hashtag #GreatestGen!The Greatest Generation is on YouTube.Facebook group | Subreddit | Discord | WikiSign up for our mailing list!Get a thing at podshop.biz!

Pit, pit, guffna! To share your embarrassment tour, rolls on. Yeah, we're going to London next. Yeah. Pretty sure we'll survive it, but not 100% sure. Yeah, get yourself a ticket. It's greatestjentour.com. We are roasting Star Trek 5 this time.

Come on. Come on! What's it going to take to put you in a Star Trek 5 roast today? Ticket still available for Chicago, Minneapolis, Boston, and Brooklyn right after we get home from London. It is a touring crucible for me and Ben, and we're doing it all for the FODs out there. Get yourself a ticket at greatestjentour.com. Right now, greatestjTour.com, right now! ChrisJentTour.com.

Here's to the finest crew in Starfleet. Engage! Watch your bad shot. Hello. I'm Captain Captain Bringsden where the U.S. is. For the... Captain Captain Captain Bringsden where the U.S. is. For the...

Do it Captain. Welcome to the greatest generation. It's a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys, just a little bit embarrassed about having a Star Trek podcast. I'm Adam Pranaka. I'm Ben Harrison. Melting. Under this hot LA Sun.

Yeah, yeah. Are you just not insulated in your studio there. Because you and I both are now in a situation where we have the house that we live in and then a backyard where there's a different weird building. That building has where we record in it so that our families don't have to look at us during. We used to record at home and now we record in the garage. Or whatever. the converted garage. Yeah, I don't know how Marin did it because he was in an uninsulated garage forever, right? Yeah, he had a bum in that fucking garage. Yeah, can you imagine how it was in there full of fucking secret service? What are we complaining about? Yeah, yeah, and. And he was over here on the east side with me.

Yeah. Yeah, he was. Yeah. He was really in it. Yeah. I mean, I'm in a Cinder block building, so usually it stays pretty cool in this building until the afternoon to evening, but that's kind of when we record. So I usually have the air conditioning going like all day

and then I shut it for records. But today we both decided we are not going to shut the air conditioning. So it's the listeners who suffer. The Seattleite in me is so deeply ingrained that I want to use the air conditioner as a minimal use possible. Like you think I was some sort of uptight dad

with how I want to conserve the power over all other matters, including my own comfort? Oh, yeah, I'm sure that European friends of DeSoto are like, what is going on right now? Yeah. Yeah. But now, I just don't want to sweat anymore during a podcast.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You said you were guesting on a show? Yeah, I guess to yesterday on a show and I was, I was a mess by the end. I'm talking rain for a sweating. Put my nest, sent me an email after it was over and it was like, hey, everything all right over there? Because I'm a learning thermostat. I'm a learning thermostat. I mean, you're a thing computer.

I noticed that you ran the AC hours and hours and it only got hotter. And I'm worried about you, bud. That happened in our house proper last summer when we brought the baby home. There was a crazy heat wave here in LA. And the AC was running 24 hours a day for seven or eight days. And like during the middle of the day, it would not be equal to the task of keeping the

house cool. It's scary to think about the places in this country where blackouts from the power company happen. And what people who aren't so veeral and youthful the way we are would have to endure something like that. I mean, look at how lucky we are with these birdies. Yeah. At our age. Yeah. Yeah. Looking good, feeling good. My body is really a temple, a nice cool tranquil temple.

Yeah, I'll say. Speaking of amazing things our bodies can do, there is a hollow body in today's episode. That can do a pretty nifty trick. And this character decides to monetize that trick, turn it into a career in a kind of way that feels very familiar to me. Yeah, yeah. Don't just turn your hobby into a job

without giving it some serious consideration. Yeah, that really is the takeaway of Star Trek Voyager Season 6, episode 13, Virtuoso. Reaver course. Unless you've got something a little bigger in your torpedo toots, I'm not turning around. And we called open with news of a group of people and their damaged vessel aboard Voyager. It's a camarie in vessel, but the people are called the Camar. So is that confusing?

I don't know. I feel like sometimes if you end on like a hard r like that, I would expect a camarie vessel to be the, you know, oh geez. I was not in the linguistic weeds in that particular way up top. Yeah. I was just really feeling a race of people who are basically, you know what your problem is. Types of people.

Nice to see Martin Scorsese get an acting role on the show. I barely recognized him without his glasses. I know. There he is. Going on and on about the cinema to the doctor. It didn't realize what a short, statured man he was. Yeah. The Camara are short kings and queens

and they are superior kings and queens as well. Yeah. They don't like your Marvel movies and they don't like your shitty holographic doctor technology. They do that thing where they're like bad tourists in a foreign country that refuse to speak the other language. They just speak louder and slower in order

to make themselves clear. We are ready to return to our ship. Yeah, although the lady Tinku, who is the one with the speaking part in this scene and goes on to have a big role overall, I feel like she does just kind of speak really slowly in general throughout the episode. Like this is over articulated as they put it in the subtitles, which I always have on. What may be under articulated is their superiority, though, because while they do possess the superiority complex,

and we do see how sort of great their society is, the explicit way in which their society is superior is kind of unmentioned, right? There's the superior mind, but we don't get any practical examples of ways in which that is true. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of wanted them to prove it. Yeah. Give us 10,000 light years. Everybody else has. Yeah. Yeah. But the the Camar are like, they're very like plain people. You're basic. And their assholes and their condescending, you know, the captain

is very happy to leave the doctor with these people because she doesn't want to deal with their bullshit. Yeah. And they're explaining to her that they live in a very like hermetic society where they don't get to meet aliens very often. Especially inferior ones. So they're not used to dealing with dumb dums like the boyager crew. No, and on the one hand, you sort of understand how... I mean, you see this all the time in real life. Like a person who isn't used to being out in the world often runs into difficulties in social situations, not accidentally offending people. And this is kind of their way.

Like they've kept it themselves for a long, long time and now that they're sort of out in the world, they're hurting some feelings. Yeah, it's like, you know, I don't think Martin Scorsese was trying to shatter the dreams of lots of comic book nerds when he said, what he said about those films. Not at all. Just stating a deeply held conviction of his own.

He's an old man. Look at him. He's going to say weird shit. The doctor gets left with these people and starts humming a little ditty about working on the rail road. And these people are fascinated. This is like the scene in the movie theater in Gremlins where the dwarves sing high-ho and all the Gremlins love it.

Like these aliens are totally wrapped. Like they are enormous fans of I've been working on the real road, the song. Another motherfucking slappy, this fucking... This hits so hard for them. They're like, what is it? Is it some kind of meth that you're doing? What's its purpose for why?

Would it be possible for me to get the EP CD where it's the radio edit, the explicit version, the instrumental, all of it. The track that you think might be the next hit off the record, you know? But so rarely is. No. When we come back from the theme, he is putting on a full blown concert in the corner of Six Bay for these people,

and they just are, you know, eating out of his hand, basically. Now that's what I call royalty free classics. Volume one. There's text streaming up the screen and every so often one of the song titles is highlighted yellow and he switches into that one. It's kind of a medley. Yeah, and the patients in the Six Bay are totally, before they were just like bewildered at what the doctor was doing, and now like they want to know how it is happening, mechanically or whatever.

Is this like making a horse deal cards, where it's just a matter of the voltage? It was just like in his programming or what? Yeah, they put a bunch of peanut butter in your mouth. Or... Yeah. And the doctor, I mean, this is a really tall task, right? How do you explain to someone who's never heard it

what music is and why music is? He is ill-suited to this, even though he's like the most passionate about music of any character on the ship. He doesn't really have a comfortable relationship with recreation, so explaining the recreational nature of something is a little bit out of his grasp. Yeah.

It's like you owning a video game. It's like, why do you even have that? All that's going to do is make you feel guilty about never taking any me time. Yeah. My video game system is a guilt machine. So they pull up to the Kumar planet. And there are a ton of spaceships and space stations in orbit of this planet. Like for people that don't ever talk to or deal with outsiders, they have a lot of equipment for getting around.

We're you suspicious with the about face the Camar had. Like they were really ready to get the fuck off the ship and leave just as soon as possible until the doctor started singing. And now the welcome mat set out for them. Yeah. I was kind of on alert from here for something

that didn't end up happening eventually, but like, I didn't trust them. The Commars did seem like a little bit like they would just take something that they wanted. And I sort of thought it was getting set up for a doctor- Napping episode. Right. Instead, they really roll out the welcome mat.

They pull in and they're like, oh my God, there's so many different signals being broadcast. It's like, maybe they're not even aware that we're here, but then one comes directly to Voyager, and Tinku is on screen and announces that they have the privilege of meeting Roberto Clemente award winner and baseball Hall of Famer, Prelet Caru. Yeah. Things really move quickly this episode because the doctor has gone from performing a tiny biobad concert to like having a booking at the largest performance hall on the Kamaar planet. And Jane weighs like more than happy to allow

the doctor to do this performance as a diplomatic gesture. There's coffee in that recital. Yeah, you know, like when a show is in previews, you get kind of like friends and family to sit in the audience and check it out. And so they sort of test the doctor out on some Voyager crew members and, you know, the people that they were rescuing at the beginning of the episode and the prelate.

And he sings some songs. These people learn to clap for the first time and it looks very much like my baby learning to clap. I love start trick clapping. You see this all the time. The alien species picking up on it, figuring out how to do it, doing it badly. I was there. I'd been one bejorin in this room so we could see a bejorin clap one more time. Yeah. I did like that quite a bit. Isn't it intense the way the Kammar learn how to clap too? Like, their clapping is with intention. Yeah, yeah.

I want to hurt my hands clapping. It definitely looks like they're clapping at someone. Well, they are clapping at the kim tones when they come on to play an instrumental set. They do not care for this. They fucking hate it. Yeah. You can register it on their faces. They full on interrupt the show. Yeah. We wish to hear the doctor. The doctor saves them by standing in and accompanying them with his beautiful dulcet tones. Yeah. Of course, it's long term. You're right.

You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. After this gathering has concluded the performance part, there's sort of a, a wine mixer after or something. Well, it gets where the Kamar gets a mingle

with the performers and so forth. And every conversation they're in gets sort of steered into whether or not the doctor is involved in whatever they're talking about. It's not just that they love the music that the doctor performs. There's something about the doctor himself and how they can get

time with him and if a Kamar hasn't met the doctor yet, how to get that introduction. Probably the most vivid illustration of this is Vinka just like walking over a Harry Kim's dick to try to get to the doctor. Yeah. That's Harry Kim, Vinka. What are you doing? I do one of the musicians. Get out, Harry! Who are you? Harry Kim. Thinker. Parents must be very proud.

Welcome aboard, Voyager. They come as commas at Paris. Who are you? Harry Kim. If you'd like to see the rest of the ship, I'd be happy to give you a tour. Maybe later. Who are you? Harry Kim.

I lasted 22 minutes. And you're mocked. Harry proud. Harry Kim. Who are you? Harry Kim. I was wondering if you could introduce me to the doctor. Yeah, Harry Kim, not used to this.

I mean, Harry Kim famously, the stickman of the USS Voyager, clear in this scene that the doctor is the hollow stickman of the ship. Surely. So yeah, they're working on now expanding this to a bigger, fancier performance space on the home world. And this is involving reengineering the entire structure, which the Kamar are happy to do. To a Disney land specification, I would say. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha She doesn't care for this. The doctor taking to his newfound fame and glory, like a duck to water, but BLT does not like it.

This is real season one, Dr. Attitude here, where the doctor's smug superiority comes up and meets an alien race with that totally in their DNA. And they seem like a great combination, right? Yeah, they admire this in here. Yeah. Hey, you're real dick to others about how much better you are than them.

We think that's cool. When BLT leaves this scene, Tinku notices that the Voyager crew doesn't appreciate the doctor the way they do. That must be very frustrating for you. You have no idea. And this is a very important seed that gets planted. This sort of resentment. Yeah.

We flash forward to backstage the night of the big performance. And the doc has, you know, pre-show jitters. There's a great effect where he pushes the button on his mobile emitter and his like opera clown costume appears on him. How do I look? You look perfect. Ben, you and I both know exactly how it feels

to be backstage before a greatest gen live show. Mm-hmm. Feeling like you're wearing a clown suit. How about to go out there? Well, yeah, anybody that's seen us live knows we dress as pogliachi when we perform. The metaphorical clown suit is what I was referring to. What it feels like to perform greatest gen.

Yeah, because the literal clown suits we look great in. Right. It's a formal clown suit. Like if you were a professional clown and you got invited to a white party, this is the sort of clown suit you'd wear, right? Right, yeah. He's like looking through that little hole in the curtains

to see what the crowd looks like. There's kind of a weird comp of a crowded opera house. It's like, they've like comped recognizable characters all in the front row so that the like fake people in the background don't draw your eyes much. The rise and run of that upper level of the performance space looks terrifying. Yeah. To be seated in or to think about walking up or down. I've been in performance spaces like that, though, where you're like, God, if I fucking eat shit on this step, like it is a long way down.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't like that. I don't like that feeling at all. The doctor's nervous because it's not just this group of people that you're going to see him that's going to be simulcast to millions around the world like it's the Super Bowl of row row row your boat or something Yeah, the ad space is being sold for like millions of dollars for 30 second spots It's just bonkers. I do kind of wish all the songs he's saying were like children's classics instead of pivoting to opera, you know? Yeah, you should have started with opera, you know like that would have been a better bit than the Kimtons coming on and

Cheaper to execute for production, you know like they should have had him do like some real songs and have them go like oh no no no Yeah, we want to cure what other stuff the wheels on the bus do again. Exactly. Yeah, it would be fun if that were their tastes exclusively. Is it an algorithm? Yes, it is an algorithm. Later on Voyager, it suddenly read alert and it's seven that has broken the astromextric's glass. Ankylis alert.

And triggered this alert. Yeah. And that's because she's found out the Kamar are sabotaging Voyager. Specifically trying to overload their calm system. And I thought this was kind of a funny throwback to that episode, the Voyager conspiracy, like seven overinterpreting some information as nefarious. This is the officer you won on that wall. You need her on that wall.

Yeah, getting. What this really is, is fan letters coming through. Voluminous fan letters. And there's a kind of funny conversation where the captain tries to explain to Sevin who, you know, I mean, Sevin should know what this is like. She was like the tertiary adric to Unimetric 01. She was like right in the heart of it with the most famous Borgs there is.

Yeah, you got to believe when you're serving at the throne of the queen or whatever. Like, you're going to get a lot of drone letters incoming, right? Right. Like, hey, so does your body go down past your decolatage or is that all just kind of a robot suit? Either way, just a huge fan of your work. Let me know. Sometimes I think about you and the other 50 billion borgs. I'm tied into. But when I think about you,

something weird happens. I bought a magazine where it said that you were going to share some tips about how to get your cranial cabling to loop back in exactly that way. Because I think it's so pretty on you, but it just doesn't look great on me, and I'm wondering if you have any advice. Yeah. Janeway explains that this is something that fans do, and seven, in spite of how we've described

what Borg Fanda might be like, is not able to grasp this concept at all. Can't wrap her mind around it. No. The glorification of the individual is irrational. This is kind of the beginning of seven being like totally disgusted with what's going on in the doctor's world. Yeah.

The captain has to leave because the ship is sort of getting overrun with Kamar. This is a situation I never like to see in Star Trek. It's just too many visitors aboard the ship at any one time. Because these come are of positively crammed the area around deck two. They're hoping to get a glimpse of the doctor. Because he's inside the mess hall. And he has a tiny dock that he's playing with in front of everyone. And they love watching him play with his tiny dock.

Over and over again. He plays with it. in front of everyone. And they love watching him play with his tiny duck. Over and over again, he plays with it. Yeah. So they're delight. Sort of insatiable, right? Yeah, the tiny duck. Once it's done singing, he can just turn it back on and go again.

One great surprise about this scene is that the doctor has his tiny duck, but then you can take the doctor's tiny doc home with you and then do whatever you want with it there. This is like the merch table if you could take home Ben and Adam from a greatest gen live show. Right. Or a tiny doc from each of us.

Please accept this eight by 10 by four singing replica of me. Janeway walks in and takes great umbrage with what's going on here. Yeah. Hey, we need to talk is leveled and that's never good. Yeah. You can see how heartbroken the people that were like just about to meet the doctor in line

are in this moment. They're like, I've been waiting for hours and now he's getting in fucking trouble from his fucking boss. Are you kidding? Yeah. A lot of people wanted to play with this tiny duck. Yeah Might not be able to anymore. He is so focused on his star turn that he has not been

Doing anything in six Bay. He hasn't sent her reports He isn't treating the crew for bumps and bruises You know medical emergencies are not being seen too. And he's being very cavalier about this. So cavalier, he calls her... ...cadio-clair. I wasn't aware we were on a first-name basis. I meant Captain.

I'm sorry. I could see this happening a lot more than it does. Accidentally calling her Catherine instead of Captain. They kind of sound phonetically similar. Not that far off, yeah. Yeah. Captain Catherine Janeway really has a nice ring to it. Yeah.

You think they started with the name and then worked back from there? Probably. The main takeaway is get back to work, doctor. Yeah, he heads back to Six Bay and a couple of groupies have made their way to Six Bay to get treated. This is like classic groupie behavior, right? Figuring out the place where the person is going to be

instead of trying to fight your way through the crowd where they are. This has happened to you a bunch on tour, I'm sure. I didn't recognize this behavior initially, but now that you mention it, yeah. Every time I get back to my hotel room. Yeah. This is Vinka and Azen, and they both make it clear that their presence in the Six Bay is about trying to get close to the doctor and they're slowly backing him into a corner. We don't want a replica.

We want the full size version. What are they gonna do to him, Adam? I wanted to know. He's already got a kid, you know? They're probably capable of some very mathematical love-making, you know? Yeah. Vinc is gonna do the cosine and Aisin's gonna do the sine. They can recite penis to 27 digits. Right.

Got tickets that... Luck, no, get the... All better, Lodgeman. Here, here. I've got tickets that... Luck, no. Are you selling a heist? God.

I've got tickets that look, we're not, are you selling a heist? God. Factor meals are one of the sponsors of today's episode and boy am I happy they are. Factor sent my wife and I a whole bunch of these to try. We loved them. Our baby Daron loved them. And if you don't know about these, this is a ready to eat meal kit. It is not a meal kit where they're sending you a bunch of stuff that you have to cut up. If you don't have time for all that mess or if you're just not a confident cook,

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For the Captain, the U.S. So we're back at another performance now. He's backstage with Tinku again, and Tinku's like, hey, like this may be a little bit forward, but I got something for you. He hands him an iPad, and it's a piece of music that she's written. Nobody on this planet has ever written a piece of music, but inspired by the EMH, Tinku has written a song for him to sing.

How about the balls on Tinku to just like give this composition to a performer, thinking that they'd want to perform it. Yeah, but then again, like they don't have other performers on their planet. So no like social codes to know about and violate. Great call. Yeah, yeah. The idea that this is a seduction technique

is also pretty apparent here too, because like while she has made this especially for him and it may or may not be something that's possible for him to perform, the idea of him staying and attempting to perform it with her forever is a part of the offering here. Yeah. This is last performance scheduled for tomorrow. And he's like, yeah, so there's no way I can do this tonight.

And she's like, well, you know, like maybe you should just stay and will like modify your program until you can sing it. You know, your crew will be fine without you. They're very, they're plucky. This is a really mathy species. And the argument she's got in this moment is a very mathy argument. She's like, look, there's a hundred and whatever crew people on Voyager, but there are millions

and millions and millions of Kamar down here whose lives you're making better through your singing. So, when you weigh those two, the choice seems obvious. You're already triple platinum, doing 50 a week. Yeah. Down here. Needs the many, and also this is gonna be great for you. The doctor doesn't think about this very long

because we smash cut into Janeway's office and the doctor is there to resign. Yeah, this really goes over like a lead balloon with the captain. Does not care for the idea that he is so taken with his fame that he's passing her a resignation letter What was the bigger mistake the the doctor Resigning or using a hypothetical Harry Kim situation to make his case Because because Janeway is like You're not Harry Kim.

Harry Kim fucks all the time. But he doesn't settle down. He's married to the ship. The idea of Harry Kim getting so infatuated with one of his conquests that we meet on an alien world that he would leave for her is laughable, doctor.

I lasted 22 minutes. Should I feel complemented or insulted? So the doctor like pivots right into the, you know, the old nut about self-determination and him being a hollow person with rights and the ability to make choices like this. And this really puts Janeway into a corner argumentatively because it's hard for her to argue against this without using the doctor's property counter to it. And so I think she's put on her back foot. Yeah, there's not a lot she can say.

Yeah. By also approving and denying the request, the way that she does, I think is also an elegant solution to the conflict here too. Like professional Janeway can't get on this at all, but like Janeway the friend, she'll go along with this.

It's a tough moment. She's, you know, I think partially persuaded by the doctors feelings about Tinku and the idea he has that this is not just a career move, but also a romantic move. And she just has to take his word for that. But yeah, it's a tough moment. Janeway gets on the radio to Harry Kim and it's like, Harry, there's someone I'd like you to meet. And absolutely wreck. That's a seed that they cut from the version of the episode that aired, but if you get the DVDs,

you can see that. And it kind of explains episode that aired, but if you get the DVDs, you can see that. And it kind of explains a lot about, you know, how Tinku is and a couple of the decisions she makes for the rest of the episode. Yeah, once she has her back mathematically blown out. He's gonna be different about the doctor. Ensign Paris is having some bad feelings about the doctor. And you know, these are two characters that haven't always had the chummyst of relationships.

But Paris is really hurt by the choice that the EMH is making. You're not really going to do this. Are you? Sad to see him go, but he loves to watch him leave. Not mentioned here is that it seems as though Paris's new full-time job will be the ship's doctor and he will no more be the navigator of the ship. Yeah. And I kind of wish that was baked into this consequence a little more like it's not just that people have grown attached to the doctor and will miss him when he's gone and we'll have to pick up his duties or whatever. But like for Paris to

and we'll have to pick up his duties or whatever. But like, for Paris to not be able to be ship's pilot anymore, I think is a terrible consequence. Yeah, it sucks for him. And yeah, the image never even considers that. Like, Paris would be like, you know, Belonna doesn't want to date somebody that's on nerves. She wants to date a fucking pilot. Yeah.

My access to sex goes out the window. The second you step foot off the ship, Doc. Yeah. The stick man arms race is effectively over at that point. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha And as soon as Paris becomes one, he sees the writing on the wall. Yeah. The next stop is the cargo bay where, you know, M.H. is saying goodbye to Sevin, who is also super hurt by the decision he's made. He's like, oh, this will be cute. I'll drop off like couple final interpersonal relationship lessons for her from the master

class that I've been teaching. And ironically, he hasn't done the calculation of how much he's hurting their interpersonal relationship. It would be difficult to maintain if we never see each other again. Wherever Jerry Ryan goes, in order to summon this feeling in her, that she deploys at the doctor.

This is a dark place. Because when you know you're going into an interaction that's gonna end poorly and the other person's ready for that, it's surprising to the doctor. The doctor feels like this is going to be a sad goodbye but not antagonistic goodbye and that's what it ends up being. The seven that he is saying goodbye to is dumping a can of kerosene on their friendship and setting it on fire because she doesn't want him to get

it twisted that they're like leaving on good terms at all. What the doc tells her about the approval he feels from the live audience and like, you know, his new life as a performer and how there's really no substitute for that. We've made jokes about that on the show before, but the moment we started doing live shows and meeting friends of DeSoto and stuff, I think really kind of changed the relationship I had with the thing that we do. And like over the years, that seems to be a measurable reservoir of energy that I have for doing the show at all.

It's like when we take months and months away from being with FODs or doing live shows, I can feel the project become more work than it ever usually is, and then to go out and do the shows means to replenish that spring. And all of a sudden, my relationship to the project changes as a result. Like it's a real necessary thing. I think that's interesting, because I think in the scene when he's talking about the meaning he gets from the fan mail and stuff like that, we're supposed to sort of take it as like this is fucking bullshit and that stuff isn't more meaningful than his real relationships.

And I think that there's some truth to that, but I was also like kind of vibing with what he was saying at the same time. Like, I think that there's a kernel of truth in the point he's making. Yeah. I had to go into the drunk remota gmail for something recently because like, I don't know. I forget what it was.

We had like a service that was using that as the log in email that I needed to log into. And it was like, you know, it's like semi haunted in there now. I don't think anybody is checking that inbox and I don't think it either of us has in several years now, but like people still send it. No, it's all the time. Yeah, totally. And that was like kind of surprising to see. Yeah. Yeah, there's a real energy to this scene that probably resembles the moment we told our wives that we were gonna turn pro at this. Ha-ha-ha.

Yeah. And our wives like look like they wanted to physically fight us. Ha-ha-ha. The way like seven stands up and turns around, she looks like she's ready to fucking pop the doctor. You shouldn't keep your fans waiting. So he walks out of this and beams down to the laboratory where Tinku works. And she's like hobbling around, like she's just engaged in some like really high impact

physical activity of some kind. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it does look that way, doesn't it? She's got a surprise for him. She's developed her own hollow matrix. It looks a lot like him. Only it's got local loaf. And it can satisfy her in every way

that the doctor used to, only better. What she's made is a kind of singing dildo that makes him kind of obsolete. It's very hurtful to the doctor. Yeah. The doctor tries to defend himself. He's like, look, this pile of vibrating latex that can make this interesting sound might be great,

but it does never so. Yeah. It'll never love you the way I can with feeling. It's pretty brutal. It's very clear that she dehumanizes him even more than the captain was doing when he tendered his resignation. Yeah.

And doubly hurtful because he had interpreted all her advances as having a romantic component, and they were like entirely selfish and not romantic at all for her. Yeah. That really hurts. She was like, no, I just wanted to hit it and quit it, you know? The sequence here is what really makes it hit the hardest She was like, no, I just wanted to hit it and quit it, you know? Like, the sequence here is what really makes it hit the hardest is because like, you know, the doctor's already done all those goodbyes. And now this gets dropped on him.

Yeah. Oh, no. And it's like, but what about my artistry? And she's like, huh? Yeah. You're what? That doesn't seem to matter.

Yeah. Like what do we told doesn't seem to matter. Yeah. Like, what do we told our wives that we were going to go pro at Star Trek podcasting? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like, that's not art. So the doctor kind of sees the singing dildo as a threat and knows that he's going to have to really bring it for this performance coming up. In six Bay, he asks BLT to clear some space in his matrix so that he can sing this super challenging

composition. He needs more information dumped into this matrix, but his holo matrix is like my wife's class. Eventually, you've got to in one out one to make everything fit. And if the doc wants to sing this new arrangement, he's going to have to sacrifice some of his like essential information that makes him him in order to do it. Yeah, they got to dump all the medical stuff to put this in. And I was really surprised in this moment because it seemed so crushing and so devastating in the previous scene with Tinku that I found it a little bit surprising that he was still trying to stay that he was still trying to win her over,

but I guess it makes sense. Yeah, I wish we got two scenes this episode. I wish we got Harry Kim absolutely knocking it out with Tinku. And I also wish we got a scene where the doctor is trying to work out what exactly he wants to do in the aftermath of seeing this, the singing dildo, like the torture of committing to something that he now regrets and that like maybe some choices still remain on the table, but he doesn't really have anyone to confide in. You know?

So like that would make that kind of scene impossible. He already burned the bridge with seven, right? Yeah, and and BLT is like such a weird friend for him to turn to at this time. Maybe he could talk to his little doc. Maybe some time with his little doc could clear his mind a little bit. I feel like that's the thing he didn't think of that he should have thought of. Yeah. Yeah.

So we're at the performance and the doctor, our doctor introduces the composition from Tinku as something he cannot do. Very dramatically he does this. And instead he chooses another song, a soaring opera song, that even appears to choke up Janeway, who's up in the audience. But while it really hits for her, the applause is really tepid after it's over, right? The Camar are not wildly enraptured by what he's done here. I think they were just, you know, probably disappointed by his choice.

You know, it's like he's about to play the hit off the new album that's like really getting a lot of radio play. And he's like, actually, I'm going to play a B side from an album from before we were famous. And everybody's like, this is your big finale, are you fucking kidding me? I think the Kamar and the audience probably detected what you and I did when we watched this scene,

which was the doctor's voice has changed. That's because Robert Picardo performed every other song in the episode besides this one. Oh wow. This one was sung by a professional tenor. Huh. That's wild, huh? Yeah, I mean, I know that they wrote this for him because he has a love of singing opera, but I didn't know that he performed all of those. Well, yeah. It's pretty great.

So the Kamar know enough about performance to have replicated a giant hook that goes and pulls the doctor from the stage. And this allows Tinku to introduce her singing dildo. Yeah, she just whips it out in front of everyone. And this guy gets to work. And it is clear that he's on another level. And these folks love it.

The singing dildo has the kind of skills that the diva plafa laguna reps in fifth element. And you can really go for the high note and the low note at the same time It's very dissonant and unpleasant sounding. Yeah, very messy. Yeah in a way that Frog fans will enjoy. Oh, yeah, like stock housing people. Yeah sure. Yeah, it's like that. Okay Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's like, yeah. Okay. That's what you need to do to seem sophisticated or whatever. We cut back over to Voyager.

And in the ready room, Janeway works the ships underway. Yeah, but the doctor's still on board. She seems surprised by this. And she surprised that the doctor has requested to stay. Yeah, he tenders his request to be reinstated. You can tend to a resignation. Can you tend to other things too? I think that's what's happening here. Yeah.

Speaking of tenderizing, Janeway absolutely tenderizes his hollow balls over his actions the past few days. So you've taken off your tails and put them between your legs? Yes, ma'am. He admits he's been a fool. Yeah. Just nice. He kind of quad box apologies. She basically makes him wear a white clown suit in there.

But captain. No, but that's doctor. You're expected to follow orders. He does a thing he's done a lot, I think, over the course of his career, which is like, he makes a mistake and then threatens to delete the subroutine that he thinks caused the mistake to begin with. Right. And he's like, look, I'm done with music, I'm quitting music, delete the files.

And Janeway denies him because his punishment is to remain pretty good, but not amazing at singing, which will be a curse for the rest of his days. He's a good guy. He's a good guy. He's a good guy. The button on the episode is seven coming to visit him

in six Bay, and she's written him a bit of fan mail. That's a big reveal at the end of the letter. Kind of surprising that it's her giving the olive branch in this moment. I really feel like he owes her an apology a lot more than she owes him this letter. I thought a lot about how in or out of character, this moment was for seven until I realized that like it's cliche, you know, like you don't know what you have until it's gone. I think that works for seven, too. I don't think she had any idea what her feelings were for the doctor until that moment in the alcove.

And so for that moment to be so unique to her, I think would also precipitate the writing of a letter like this and that she would read it directly to him. Like that kind of hangs together to me. Yeah. But in the moment, I was surprised. It was very emotional sounding. Nice letter.

Good job, Seven, right in that letter. But did you think this episode did a good job of telling a story about a singing doctor? You know, how many of you used to get along with most of the time? But I don't like boeing, I don't like friends, and I don't like you. I don't like you, I don't like you, too.

I wanted to dislike this episode a lot, because singing is often really silly, especially on Star Trek. Yeah. Like I was stepping up to watching this episode going, Oh no, this is going to be too silly for me. But you hate silly shit. That's one of the main things about you. The thing that defeat silly is sincere. And there was enough sincerity throughout the episode. There was enough pain throughout the episode that it unsillied all of the singing. And it made it possible for me to enjoy the experience

a little more. I like the way it ended, especially. And that, the seven reading the letter part, just the like, that scene where the doctor and Janeway figure out what his punishment's going to be or whatever. That's a good captain moment for Janeway, because you don't just get to delete the things that make your mistakes happen. Real growth is about...

Unless it's like a bad tweet, you know. Sure, yeah. Real growth is about like sitting in that and changing hopefully for the better. So I like to take away from this and I medium like the episode even though there is a lot of operate in it. Opera, not my favorite musical genre. What about you, Ben? That tension between the silliness and the sincerity, I think is a great point you made.

And that tension runs through the episode in so many ways, like even outside of the singing, like the Kamar are very silly people. Like, I don't know why they need to all be really short. Like, I don't know why they need to clap. Like, you know, they've never even thought to smack their hands together. I don't know why that one lady speaks so slowly in entire episode. If you don't have a lot of loaf, what you have is behavior, though.

And those are a lot of little additive traits that I think paint an unusual picture of these people. They're very interesting Star Trek species because they are dicks, but they're not malevolent. You know, like, they're not stealing the doctor, they're not overpowering the voyager when it seems like they probably could. I mean, we have to just have to take everybody's word for it, but it seems like everybody agrees that they're so technologically advanced that they would be perfectly capable of just taking something that they wanted if they wanted it. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And also, like, runs so roughshod over the doctor's feelings. Like, a great singing career is the football.

He is fucking Charlie Brown and these people are Lucy, man. Yeah. A failure face if I ever saw one. I can't say that I loved the episode. Like, I don't think it quite balances out for me as one that I like enjoy watching actively, but I thought it like got at some more interesting observations about, you know, life in the human condition

and having fans that then really had any right to. Yeah, maybe the only Star Trek episode I can think of that made me consider that aspect, like the corrupting power of popularity. And to a certain extent, like the child actor quality that the doctor goes through his first sense of that and a fan culture that enjoys him. He is a child actor. He's been alive for only a couple of years. He doesn't know anything about this.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it would be impossible to overstate the extent to which having a medium popular podcast has made us giant assholes. So, oh, sure. Imagine having millions of fans. We both know podcast hosts of various sizes of listenerships. That's, I mean, it's all over the spectrum. Yeah. The extent to which you are corrupted by your audience. So it's true. It's just a good thing you and I aren't. Squeaky clean, that's us. Yeah. Yeah.

But one thing that is never corrupt at him are the priority one messages from our listeners. Do you want to go check the inbox? Heated that way. Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Need a supplement on that. supplement on that? supplement.

Yeah, it's extra. The interest alone could be enough to buy this ship. Then our first priority one message is of a promotional nature. Okay. That message goes like this. A Babylon 5 podcast by two Star Trek podcasters that are a little bit embarrassed they missed Babylon 5 when it first aired. Don't be embarrassed. Imagine experiencing a nearly 30 year old show for the first time again. Jeff Aiken and Brent Allen

watched this series for the first time, completely unspoiled. And they are looking for those important messages that Sci-Fi delivers so well. Check out Babylon 5 for the first time. Not a Star Trek podcast. You can find this show at Babylon 5 first, that's Babylon the number 5 and first.com. And subscribe today.

Babylon 5 first. Am I just totally off with the popularity of Babylon 5? Like people really love that show. At least they let us hear about it. They do, people like that show. Yeah. I watched a lot of Babylon 5 when I was a kiddo. Yeah.

Yeah, and there was a girl in my elementary school who's older brother, I think, did ship designs for it. He designed spaceships for it, and I thought that that was really cool. I don't know what it is about how I choose to enjoy things or whatever, but like I was always transformers and not go-bots.

I was always like GI Joe and not mask. I was always this but not that. Like I would always, I was always armagedded and not deep impact. Like I would choose one of the similar things, and that would be it for me. And so like when I found Star Trek, I wasn't really into Star Wars. Like I just chose Star Trek

to the exclusion of the other things that were similar. Wow. And so like by saying that, I'm not saying I hate Babylon 5, I just, I made my choice. I guess you did Adam. Yeah. You've got a great big heart with room enough for all of the shows, right?

Yeah, I mean, I don't have like nostalgia for B5 the way I do for TNG or any of the Star Trek's, but I don't know. I remember thinking that there were some cool stuff about it. And I hope people will give this a listen. Maybe you should give it a listen since you've never even dipped your toe into the Babylon 5 pond. Never did. Yeah. Completely dry toes over here. Gotta change that out of him. Our next priority one message is from Amanda and it's to just end on the goes like this. Happy birthday handsome.

Thank you for turning me into both a Trekkie and a viewer of the greatest generation and for being by my side as I work toward being a non-drunk Shimoda. I know it's your birthday but I'll take the opportunity to remind you that you still owe me a pineapple upside down cake. I love you and I'm proud of you Hey, that's nice. That's really nice. I'm gonna assume that's not a euphemism. That is a a baked dessert Delicious. Yeah congrats on not being a drunk Shemota anymore Amanda that rules. Yeah boy Sounds like the two of you are lucky to have each other. Yeah, good job by you guys. Happy birthday, handsome. Sorry the birthday wish is so late. But it's closer than a lot of these, you know. Yeah, we're doing the best we can.

Hey, our final priority when message is from your wife, Kristen, and it's to Georgie. That message goes like this, hi handsome. Whoa, another handsome person! How many handsome's are there? Uh, probably two. I might be in Africa right now. Or we both might be in Rome. Or we could be home by now.

Depending on when this airs, but either way I love you so much. These 12 years together have been so dope. And I look forward to 100 more kisses to you and Linky. Wow. You gotta get Georgie and Justin together. Couple of hunks. And now, yeah, looking good, Justin and Georgie. No mention of the relative hand-smness of the Babylon 5 podcast that we

Read the promotional materials for but we're just going to assume three for three. Yeah, handsome priority one message is here Probably just a great big pile of hunks. Yeah all the way down Hello handsome. Wow. Well, if you'd like to tell someone how handsome you think they are, head to maximumfund.org slash Jembo Tron and set up a priority on message today. It's the only way to do it right. Hey, Ben, what's that, Adam? Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda? Incredible.

Drunk Shimoda. I'm going to give it to Prelet Karoo. Seems like Prelet Karoo is gonna have a bigger role in this than he winds up having. He's basically there to like sign off on there being several performances by the doctor and then it has no further role. And it sort of feel like the character was in the script for the earlier draft where the Camarri like steal the doctor

and send the Voyager packing or something like that. But I think he's getting my drunk Shimoda for not having the confidence to ask the Kim tones to get the fuck off stage himself and needing Martin Scorsese to do it for him. Yeah, your Shimoda, it also needs to be said, was played by Paul Williams, who is a very famous songwriter, who's had just an amazing career.

TV writer too. Yeah. Great to see one of those types of people in a guest starring role on Star Trek, as Star Trek is want to do. Yeah, very cool. How about you? Did you have a drunk charmota? I'm gonna go with the obvious one. I think the charmotas of Star Trek often find themselves

in situations of their own creation, maybe unable to grapple with the circumstances, maybe not charmota directly. Maybe I'm thinking more of Edward Larkin, but the doctor, when facing the challenge of popularity rises to the challenge in a destructive way, and that to me embodies the drug Shimoda spirit maybe as much as anyone. So, yeah, obvious choice, but I think he's got to get a check in his column for this one.

Yeah, good call. obvious choice, but I think he's got to get a check in his column for this one. Yeah. Good call. Well, let me tell you a little bit about the next episode. We'll be reviewing here on the greatest generation. While I'm doing that, why don't you head to Gach, that biz slash game. The next episode, a season six episode, 14 memorial. The crew is haunted by vivid images of a battle. They don't remember fighting.

This feels like another Commander McDeath episode to me. Why does this keep happening? Yeah, I mean, it's like season six for some reason, just season six, signal hell out of us. Yeah, season six is gonna season six. Well, our runabout is going to do what it will on the game of buttholes, the will of the caretaker.

Currently, it is parked on square 71. Okay. One square ahead. Got Janeway, who would take our runabout upward. Torto Nielix is galley square, but outside of that, it's mousse-sale, and I'm going to roll the dice. You're required to learn as you play, roll. Ben, I've rolled a three.

To law! Did I win? That puts us on square 74 to regular-world episode. Okay. For you and me. Great. Well, then, it'll be a lot of fun. Let's go ahead and say goodbye to the folks with a few credits.

Yeah. Yeah, thanks to everyone who supports the show at MaximumFund.org slash join. Listen to support is how this show is made possible. And that support comes in a number of ways. There's the financial support, but there's also the free support in the form of reviews. Got to have those reviews. If you haven't reviewed the greatest generation, we'd really

appreciate something brief. A reason you like it. All of the stars. You know how it goes. If you do support at Maximum Fun, we put out a monthly bonus episode. There should be one coming out around this week, usually mid-month is when we drop those. So thank you for that. Check your bonus feed. Yeah. We make your support worthwhile. Yeah. We got to thank Wendy Priti, who helps make your support worthwhile. She's the producer and editor of this show and our other hit star trek podcast, Greatest Trek. Yeah. Really appreciate it.

We also really appreciate Bill Tilly, the card daddy of the Greatest Generation, follow at Greatest Trek on all social media, especially our YouTube. You know, I think, oh yeah, are we doing a COVID-47 next week? That's a YouTube video that'll be coming out. Share is.

We're doing more and more with that YouTube channel. I think people will like it. They throw it a follow. Yeah, are you at the office? You have an extra tab. Throw on the show in the background and some ear buds in your ears. We'll get you through the work day.

I'm kidding. Gotta thank Adam and Gusia for making our original theme music. Adam Rguysia, I'll really hard at work on theme music for an upcoming thing. Amazing. And for whatever it's fucking great, with that we will be back at you next week. With another great episode of Star Trek Voyager, an episode of the greatest generation Voyager that's like not quite sure if it glimpses the nemesis because it just kind of doesn't remember correctly whether it glimpses the nemesis or not. You can't glimpse what you cannot remember. Ha ha ha ha. I can show.

I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show.

I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show.

I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show. I can show. God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God,